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so students from low-income families get the tools they need to be ready for anything. >> comcast supports c-span, as a public service is, along with these other television providers, giving you a front row seat to democracy. joining n now is philip wegmann -- joining us now is philip wegmann to discuss project 2025, which we heard a lot about during the campaign. does it mean more today now that we have a president-elect? guest: that's the million-dollar question. heritage put together this project and they have been doing it since the reagan administration but the different thing this time was they invited the entire conservative constellation to get under their banner and prepare policy for the upcoming republican administration and i have to tell you, nobody cared about it when it first started and i can tell you that with authority because i broke that story two years ago, it wasn't that

interesting until that 900 page policy document got out there. democrats are taking a closer look, and with good reason. they pointed out that a lot of these policies were written by trump alumni. president biden and vice president harris made the argument that this is a playbook for donald trump, giving democrats a lot of examples to hit trump over the head with. host: what's the official stance of the trump administration? guest: we have heard this a dozen times at this point from the president-elect and the vice president-elect, no one speaks for the campaign except us. there are some examples of cross pollination. you have alumni, folks like tom homan, peter navarro, writing this project. also, the expectation is that just like in previous administrations that trump would pick from some of these heritage

staff lists. what we can report for the first time is that when trump and his campaign were basically heralding the demise of project 2025, behind-the-scenes he was on the phone with kent roberts, president of the heritage foundation, to turn down the volume until after the election. host: what was the point of that? guest: when harris says can you believe they put this in writing? for the most part, some of these things they were prescribing, it's a little pie in the sky, but it is something they have wanted for a long time. the issue was, particularly with abortion polity -- policy, like all think tanks, heritage was describing the ideal. when the ideal is farther to the right of what the trump campaign was describing, it created

confusion among reporters, the public, and gave democrats the opportunity to go on the attack. host: what was the mandate for leadership? guest: their blueprint for how they want any administration to govern. heritage has been doing this since the reagan administration. republicans often rely on some of those policy proposals in the way that any think tank puts together a white paper and hopes they can put it into law. the difference this time is that it was much more expansive. the reason why they started this effort years ago was they were solving for the problem of the first trump administration. he gets to town, doesn't expect to win and he's shellshocked. doesn't know which policies to pursue. he has a general direction but doesn't know who to rely on.

2016, two thousand 17, he relies on a lot of rank-and-file republicans and he begins with general republican marching orders. conservatives felt it was a wasted opportunity. with this they were trying to have a game plan ready to go on day one. host: if you want to ask our guest questions, (202) 748-8000 free democrats, -- for democrats, (202) 748-8001 for republicans, independent are (202) 748-8002. text us at (202) 748-8003. and there's this link for working for the administration? guest: yes, you can prescribe policy, but personnel is significant. we all know this. there was concern after the back and forth between heritage and the trump campaign that they

would be locked out and blacklisted. the cochair of the trump transition team focused on the personnel said that you are radioactive if you have anything to do with 2025, project 2025. there no lock and no key for project 2025 into the trump administration. his argument was that if you send me a resume with project 2025 on it, that's going out the window. what we have seen, though, is this administration has 4000, 5000 spots to fill. not just cabinet positions. these are lower level bureaucratic positions that will be filled before there is a confirmation at the head of the agency. transitions are frenetic. they are difficult things to do. what we have been able to report so far is that while there is

still bitterness from the campaign, the trump campaign was frustrated that heritage didn't turn down the volume sooner, it seems a lot of the heritage of alumni and the folks involved in project 2025 have not been given the cold shoulder. we just heard this week that one heritage fellow will be the borders are for trump. host: what about previous republican administrations? guest: they see personnel as policy. their hope is that if they get the right people in position, they can move any administration in a more conservative direction . don't just think about roles at the white house. think about mid-level roles at the epa or the office of management and. they have found the wonks and eggheads who live for this sort

of stuff and are prepared to reshape the government. heritage over the next 100 days or so will be laser focused on doing everything they can to make certain that their people with a helpful symbiosis. trump is haunted by the apathetic republicans who didn't share his vision when he was in office the first time. with the heritage foundation, these are true believers. host: you said they had a conversation to turn down the heat. going further on that, what about embracing certain people? guest: there are others. i would keep an ion russ vote, who's no longer there with the center for american renewal.

i would be looking at peter navarro, an author for project 2025. you can go through the project 2000 25 index. this is why the herod -- the harris campaign was taking a closer look. a lot of these guys are alumni. the past is a guide here. trump loves heritage. in his first term he spoke at their gala. they were giving him a lot of policy ammunition for what he wanted to get done. host: philip wegmann is joining us from real clear politics. let's start with sam, independent line, you are on with our guest. go ahead. caller: a lot of people don't understand what project 2020 five is in the democrats are using this against donald trump. the other thing i wanted to say is we have a lot of programs on tv right now doing nothing but

teaching hate, we need to unify the country and get together and do the best thing for our children and grandchildren and the future. we have these shows on tv like jimmy kimmel live, the view, all these other shows, they just teach eight against trump. we need to unite together and start doing what's best for our country. host: a lot of people don't understand project 2025, his first part. guest: i thought that his comment there was interesting. what we saw over the summer was that project 2025, this white paper suddenly in the cultural zeitgeist. i don't know if jimmy kimmel live specifically made a joke about it, but plenty did in late night, on places like "the view," it was in the mainstream and everyone was arguing about it. it's not unusual for think tanks to do this sort of thing.

you could understand that the harris campaign's argument here in the reason they might have wanted to make it an issue, it was kind of confusing. it wasn't just 900 pages of policy prescriptions. there was this linkedin style of personnel database. these things taken together could have an oversized influence. this is a bit of a mixed blessing think tank wonks everywhere. this idea that they are getting attention, it's controversial as well. host: leonard, new york, independent line. caller: can you hear me? host: go ahead. caller: i wanted to ask about the viewpoint of project 2025 and of the department of education, the changes and

overhauls they are thinking about doing. what about those who want to do like a secondary education? thank you. caller: it's a nine hut -- guest: it's a 900 page document, it's a lot to cover. in terms of project 2000 25, they want massive changes to the department of education. the prescription has been to abolish it. what we have seen from republicans and conservatives is that they are not fans of the biden administration forgiveness for student loans. i would expect additional forgiveness to end. host: after people voted and you look at exit polling at the end of the day, how did it look in terms of how people decided that how people decided they would vote for president? guest: it was an argument tailor-made for someone in the

harris camp. someone who would not be persuaded by new conservative ideas. project 2025 played really well over the summer. i'm thinking back to the democratic convention in chicago, kenan thompson walking on stage, the joke was that it was good for remaking the federal government and hurting small animals, right? it got a lot of laughs. why? the democratic faithful are already predisposed to dislike this sort of thing. if you are plugged into politics, you probably already know about the heritage foundation. if you are a swing voter in don't have the luxury of reading the new york times in the morning and cross-referencing it with the wall street journal, if you are a normal human being, project 2025 other than it

floating around in the zeitgeist, it may not have landed with you. host: john, hello there. caller: project 2025 reminds me of the line from the great gatsby, they break things up, hide their money, and let others clean up the mess. the department of education, pennsylvania, tom corbett, the governor, took 1.5 billion dollars from the department of education. he was only a one term, thank god for that. by the way, trump spent one fourth of his term on the golf course in the last election. i hope that the people remember that. sometimes when he talks, it sounds like he has the third stage of syphilis. host: we are going on to gilbert, then. ohio, independent line, you are next up. caller: good morning. first of all, i would like two

questions answered. six days ago i heard the speaker of the house state that he is going to get rid of social security. i would like to know the date of that, if you happen to know. first, the speaker said six days ago that he is going to get rid of health care in the first year. the last question i want to ask, do you believe that the upcoming president, trump, is going to give up his office after four years? that is what i would like to know. host: gilbert, ohio. guest: in terms of social security, republicans have not had a very good track record of reforming that entitlement. they have tried before and failed. i'm not a capitol hill repoll dirt -- reporter, but i don't think that he has plans to tackle social security. there have been discussions

about returning to obamacare and, you know, republicans taking a closer look at that. we all know that they spent a lot of their political capital in their first four years trying to repeal and replace obamacare and they did not succeed. to the last question about whether or not donald trump will leave office, well, he's going to have to, right? there is no second term, he is constitutionally limited. i will say that while the fabric of the nation was tested on january 6, there is no scenario where coequal branches of the legislature, the judiciary, were going to let him stay longer. i think that this time around, the way that they are operating currently, they are trying to make the most of these next four years, it's why the transition is moving quickly, hitting the ground running. he knows it is his last dance.

host: the president will meet with the president-elect tomorrow at the white house. talk about that meeting. its role in the transition process. guest: wouldn't you like to be a fly on the wall of that room? i imagine the press will be able to come in at some point to shout if you questions at the president and president-elect. this is a historic moment. trump has not been back in the oval office since january 17 of 2021. he left and he didn't participate in those transition ceremonies and wasn't there for ever -- inauguration day. what i have been struck by in these last couple of weeks is this sudden era of good feeling. vice president harris quickly concedes, gets on the phone to congratulate donald trump. certainly, the president followed suit, invited trump to the white house. there's a lot of talk about unity. let's not forget, though, this

was an incredibly divisive campaign. while they want to talk about unity, republicans and democrats now, they spent the better part of 1.5 years calling each other essential threats to democracy. you had trump and harris calling each other fascist. i certainly think that all of us might want that rhetoric set aside, but let's not pretend everyone is feeling better all of a sudden. host: philip wegmann from real clear politics, joining us to discuss the white house. terry, good morning. caller: on the department of education, carter developed, as president, ordered it in 1979, we were first in the world in education, today we are 24th. really, what do we need it for. let's distribute the money to the states closer to the people with the caveat that if you

decide you want to be a social engineering education, you don't get the money. as to the pipedream that the last reporters had on stating that there would be all of this infighting in the house and senate, no. this was a mandate. the reason that there were fights in the house were because the laws they tried to bring up were not conservative enough. they knew it wouldn't get through the senate. there is no longer a problem there. i will also tell you that this idea that the senators will be able to hold up the bills? not at 53, they won't. if they use the filibuster too much, they will get rid of it. let's face it, if the democrats won, it was gone. host: what do you think? guest: let's take those in turn. with regards to the infighting, the caller raises an interesting point. in my conversation with senate

republicans, they are of the opinion that whoever trump puts up for conversation and these cabinet positions, he's going to get it. that's an indication of just what these guys are expecting. vice president harris was right in one regard. she said imagine him with no guard rails and there is not a lot of pushback from republicans currently. can you think of any anti-trump republicans in a position of prominence in congress right now? no. guy's like mitt romney, jeff flake, and others who were a burr in the saddle or threw a wrench in it last time around, they are not there anymore. trump didn't take control of the republican party as much as he tightened his grasp. allies in the senate and congress, he has a lot of political capital. we already heard reporting from susie wilde, the incoming white house chief of staff, she knows they have a very tight window,

probably the year before the coming midterms, to get as much done as possible. to the point about the department of education, i think that elon musk and others made this argument that the u.s. was once first in education and standards have fallen. certainly test scores are down. this type of conversation, it shows the trump on the floor nature. people are saying they want things to change in there is frustration among the conservative base that there is policy, be it education, immigration, or energy enforced. it doesn't seem to reflect the will of the average voter. host: we heard about the america first policy. what degree of influence will it have over this administration? guest: it's essentially a white

house in waiting, that was their nickname the years after the first trump administration. they didn't leave washington, d.c. when trump laughed, they just went down the street. they are led by the domestic policy head of the previous administration. they were distinct from project 2025. they didn't join the endeavor, but they did something similar. they got a lot of former cabinet heads and staffers, they said get to work. what will a second trump administration look like? heritage said they were ready to work with any republican and with staff loyalists. they were very much looking for a second trump term. host: joyce joins us from seattle. hello? hi? one more time for joyce. go ahead. caller: can you hear me now?

host: yes, go ahead. caller: i heard on the radio, and i'm surprised it's not on tv or the news and that this gentleman isn't saying it either yet, that biden had the opportunity to nominate judges and that the senate has, well, has the power to approve the judges that he nominates. controlling the democratic senate, they can do it. i forgot the term that they used, but take him out of session until he becomes president so that he can appoint the judges. that, biden has that power and the senate has that power as the current senate. i am tired of seeing all of the

disruptions taking place. it's awful. guest: joyce raises a good question. she might be overstating trump in the function of the senate but she's correct, you have republican saying wait a minute, there are federal judgeships open and seats that have yet to be filled. we don't want the biden nominees to be confirmed. so, you see senate republicans trying to slow that down. of course, this is majority leader's schumer's prerogative and he will be working overtime i think in these last 100 days or so to get as many confirmations as possible. you had better believe that republicans either through blue slips or through other parliamentary wrangling, they are going to fight him and try to keep as many of his judgeships open because one of the many big opportunities for many presidents is to remake

that judiciary in a more conservative or liberal direction. host: one more call from charlotte, north carolina, lisa, independent line. caller: good morning, thank you for taking my phone call. on the project 2000 25 regarding the department of education, the crt on the elementary level, but on the collegiate level, teaching the groundwork of african-americans through the passage, why is it that you think they do that and why do they want to remove that part of history? guest: certainly no one pays me for my opinions are puts me in charge of education policy, but the caller raises an interesting

point. there was a lot of animation from conservatives around questions of political race theory and conservatives will say no, a kindergartner is not reading can really crenshaw at the korea -- collegiate level. -- kimberly crenshaw at the collegiate level, but their argument is that it is influencing u.s. education textbooks and that certainly you can see the influence that may be a student would see in middle school or high school and they are going to want to deemphasize that. i am not certain what specific policy the administration would have on this, but whoever trump puts as his education secretary, they are likely not going to privilege this sort of thing. again, a lot of individual policy curriculum will be decided by the states. these controversies that pop up and motivate the states, the

question is -- all right, politicians were able to control the passions of voters, fundraiser on this and get out there and vote. now what are those politicians going to do? how are they going to govern? host: have you heard any rumbling about who might serve as white house press secretary or communications? guest: something that impacts my life every day. we will be taking a closer look at the folks interacting on the campaign trail. steven cheung, caroline levitt. i don't know if they will want to be behind the podium. we know the trump, though, once someone who is died in the wool, maga warrior here, someone who can be aggressive. what was interesting about kaylee mackin t is that sean spicer came on board, was an old hand, professional guy. like many other folks, he was

new to it. there's a similar dynamic with sarah huckabee sanders. but kaylee relished the fight. she didn't walk in like a republican secretary and she sought as combat within audience of one. i would expect them to fit that mold. and are we going to have these daily briefings? we have had them every single day and it is important every single day. with the trump administration we saw the importance of the daily briefing lessening. when it wasn't a problem, his access was great, for those key decision-makers. >> the house has gaveled out and will be back at 2 p.m. eastern time. today members are working on sefrpbl pieces of legislation.

including a measure to increase the transparency of mail-in ballots by requiring ballot envelopes to have tracking bar codes. also legislation preventing the i.r.s. from issuing fines and tax penalties to americans held hostage. and ending the tax exempt status of any groups supporting terrorist organizations. later this evening speaker mike johnson will swear in two new members who won special elections last week in texas' 18th house district for the late houston democratic congresswoman sheila jackson lee. and former republican congressman mike gallagher in wisconsin's eighth district. vee when members return right here on c-span. >> attention middle and high school students across america. it's time to make your voice heard. c-span east student cam documentary contest 2025 is here. this is your chance to create a documentary that can inspire change, raise awareness, and make an impact. your documentary should answer

this year's question, your message to the president. what issue is most important to you or your community? whether you are passionate about politics, the environment, or community stories, student cam is your platform to share your message with the world. with $100,000 in prizes, including a grand prize of $5,000. this is your opportunity not only to make an impact but also be rewarded for your creativity and heart work. enter your submissions today. scan the code or visit student cam.org for all the dails on how to enter. the deadline is january 20, 2025. >> since 1979, in partnership with the cable industry, c-span has provided complete coverage of the halls of congress. from the house and senate floors to congressional hearings, party briefings, c