was going on. my daddy knocked up my mom in december of 1942. my dad joined the marine corps the day after my oldest brother's first birthday. when i was in pearl harbor i ran into a fellow that was wearing navy whites. he had a black photo album. the years ago photo album. i had to start a conversation. we were the same age. his daddy was on the arizona. he opened the photo album and showed me pictures of his dad on the arizona. his dad got off the arizona. how fortunate. he showed me a photo. his dad had boxing gloves on and he told the story about his dad fought tony zale, a lightweight champion from indiana. we took a ride to ford island.

the warehouse you see in all those black-and-white photo reels and movie reel that is a museum nows. as i walked in there are volunteers. a fellow grabbed me and said look at the ceiling. i looked at the ceiling and he said, do you see the little black ants on the ceiling? 37 feet up in the air, here are these black ants. yes, i see them. he said those would be japanese zeros at 10,000 feet. that is what the gunners saw. host: i want to show viewers the national memorial and have you describe what is out there over the arizona in that white building that is out on the water in pearl harbor. what is it like to walk through that? caller: my hair is standing on

the edge right now as i speak. i spent three tours out there. i asked the honor guard if i could stay on the memorial as the ship left with the gang, went to the harbor and got another gang. i sat by myself. you could feel the power of the 2000 plus men. there are triplets on that ship. i think there are three or four sets of twins on the arizona that went down with that ship. as the oil bubbles up from the bottom of the ship you can just imagine the memories. host: the official national park service site, 38 sets of brothers on board the uss arizona, including 40 sets of three brothers and 63 of the siblings died in the attack on the arizona.

caller: after i got off to have a moment of silence, jon. let's have a moment of silence to think about the potential of all the servicemen who have passed have had. they are the bedrock of the country. the bedrock of the country. host: thank you for that call from illinois this morning. the total casualties at pearl harbor, 2390 servicemember and civilians. on the arizona, 1177 service hours died. on the oklahoma, 429 service members died. at wheeler field, 190. did the uss west virginia, 106 service members died.

the california, 105. 49 civilian casualties, some by enemy action and some by from the fire. the statistics on the national park service website. rose in illinois, good morning. caller: good morning and thank you for this wonderful outstanding program this morning. you can hear in the voices the pain and anguish after all these years. when you lose someone, the pain lasts forever. i want to say to all the people that are suffering today, god loves you. the people that you love are in heaven. i want to submit this and i hope you let me do this. it doesn't have to do with the pearl harbor. for the people in my life that i have loved, my uncle sam, my uncle vito who was in the army, my uncle dominic who was in the army, my father who was in the navy.

all these men served in world war ii. >> we are very happy to have you here. >> we have a great relationship,

as everyone knows. we have accomplished a lot together. the people of france are spectacular. it is one of our largest groups in the united states, french people. we respect them and we love them. very talented people. extremely energetic people, as you know very well. it is an honor to be here. we have had a great time together and a lot of success working together on defense and offense, too. it certainly seems like the world is going a little crazy right now and we will be talking about that. thank you very much for being here. >> [speaking french] >> you have been watching live coverage. we return now to our scheduled program in progress. train, took us across the country from

norfolk, virginia. i got over in the philippines. they transported us on an old ship with a wooden deck. it took us forever to get over there. i was on the philippines when the war ended. i had a jungle hat, mosquito net, wooden shoes. not wooden shoes. they called them sand shoes. i thought i'm in the navy, but i guess we were going to go into japan. at that time i can remember -- they did not have rifles enough

for the men that were coming in. they gave them broomsticks for rifles. we did not have tanks. we were not prepared for war at all. host: do you remember the name of the newspaper you were distributing? caller: the pittsburgh press. host: do you remember the headline on december 8 of the pittsburgh press? anything about that? caller: no, i doubt. it was probably war declared or attacked or something. i was peddling papers. one thing i remember, i had to walk down to what they called the red row. minors buildings. i was hoping a-train would not come -- a train would not come because it was cold. naturally a train came.

the papers, the head of the corporations, there was no panic. the government got together both parties and we declared war. the woman went to work at the factories making bombs. working in a steel mill over at manasan. everybody -- there was no panic. we had nothing. all our things were sold. -- so old. we had people. i guess you can look up the names of the people that visited germany and had come back and told this country you better get

prepared for war. we are not ready for war. host: if you look at your screen here, this was the evening edition of the pittsburgh press from december 8, 1941. you would have been delivering this on that monday evening after december 7. the u.s. declares war. 1500 died in hawaii. an undercount by about 900. nazis abandon the driver moscow. tokyo claims sinking two american battleships. manila is bombed. they have the full text of president roosevelt's message. the senate voted unanimously to victory -- voted unanimously. victory is pledged. that was above the fold that

day. caller: imagine roosevelt. roosevelt kept this country so calm. now that i'm old and i remember, i remember roosevelt. roosevelt -- trump is the reborn of roosevelt. ople at that time was elected -- was it a fifth term? i did not know any other president. when he pass away and i was in the service, . now re we going to do? here was a man that was crippled. there were stories about him on tv where he learned wl up the steps to go upstairhis house. at that time you had a guy that would get on. mber this one speech he

said, i don't mind people criticizing me an criticizing eleanor. but when they criticize my dog, that upsets me. he was that kind of a speaker. he would be on radio. he would just be as calm. calm the people. the people didn't panic. i worked on a railroad at 15 years old during the war. the trains would come by with prisoners on. you could tell who the prisoners were. they brought the germans over here. the tram would go by with the prisoners on. the curtains would be drawn. we had to turn our backs towards

the train as it went by. then -- this is the funny part -- when the italians came by in the prisoners train the windows would be open, the curtains were up and they were just as happy as could be to be in this country i guess. host: do you mind if i ask old you are? caller: i am 97 and a half. host: thank you for sharing your memories from back then. i hope you still get a paper up there in pittsburgh. just about 10 minutes left in this opening segment of the washington journal. setting aside this time to remember the 83rd anniversary of the attack on pearl harbor. one other clip to show you, the defense department conducted oral histories with many u.s. service members. those who survived pearl harbor,

trying to collect the stories before the stories were lost. here is one they collected. this was a medic that day at pearl harbor. doc monger is his name. ♪ [video] >> i am doc. i was 23 at pearl harbor. i went in the navy about two years and a half. i was a medic. the old term was a pharmacist made. i don't think the word 'war' never entered my head. on december 7, 1941, the world changed. it was a beautiful hawaiian morning. about 8:00. suddenly we heard a buzzing across the mountains. it kept getting bigger and bigger. we thought they must be doing

some kind of an exercise with our own planes. lo and behold, the planes cut overhead. we looked at the wings and there was the rising sun. then we knew we were in trouble. when i saw the first japanese zero plane pilaf and -- peel off and drop a bomb down the stack of the arizona, i knew it was for real from then on in. ♪ all hell broke loose. you cannot convey to another person the situation as it really is in a mass bombing like that. the air is full of shrapnel. full of smoke. the smell of burning gunpowder.

you have to experience that to ever know it. it is not good. they sure did a bang up job in our ships. i don't think they missed much of any of them. if you made it through the first hour at pearl harbor, you were home free. he had to be smart and lucky. shortly after they got quite in pearl harbor and i knew the planes had left for a while. we started getting casualties by the truckload in our little medical unit. we were doing what we could with what we had. host: doc monger recounting his experiences at pearl harbor. the defense department has several oral histories you can find on their website if you want to see more. c-span as well has an entire section of our american history

television programming devoted to oral histories. you can watch that at c-span.org . rick, arizona. you are next. caller: sorry i missed the call earlier. my father was a world war ii veteran. u.s. army. enlisted in february a month after the war had begun. phoenix back then was a small town. i remember myself, born in the 60's, it was such a patriotic group of men. most of the blue skies -- of those guys were veterans. if you are still alive. can you hear me? host: yes. caller: one of the things that i wanted to mention that over the years especially the places i have worked there has been a move to a race some of that

history -- erase some of that history. they were not referring it as pearl harbor but remember this day -- remembrance day. there was no real answer, but not mentioning pearl harbor is something that concerns me, we will lose our history. especially everything that happened during the war. again, back to my father. he was a mexican-american, and this was a small neighborhood we grew up in. over the years there was so much patriotism that he had seen. if we allow that to happen as a nation. host: on losing history did you listen to doc talking about his experiences on december 7? caller: i was trying to listen. there was a caller about --

talking about how they had broom handles to train with and i remember my father saying that as well. so many interesting things and many kids of veterans will say they did not speak about it. my dad had a lot of sunny and crazy stories he would talk about. he was in the support units, the medical support units. again, a few things i remember him talking about, driving vehicles at night. he was in the south pacific the whole time. he went all the way from the aleutian islands down to new zealand. so he must have crossed the pacific at least three times during the war in big aircraft carriers. host: we talk a little bit about losing that generation and the stories. doc munger, this is his obituary, he died in 2017.

the question we have been asking is what do we lose when we lose that generation, all of that generation? what do you think? caller: we lose not only the stories but the example that they left us. they are called the silent generation. it is so appropriate because all of us have known the generation not only the men who fought but our moms and they had such a strength. i am curious to see that seems to be that i am seeing in younger people. i worked in an educational area for many years. and i do see a lot of younger people interested in some of these things and looking forward that way. host:or the call from arizona. already over time but kathy is waiting in fremont, california

on the line for world war ii veterans and their families. caller: hello, my dad joined the navy in 1944 and he was 23. he was assigned to the ticonderoga. he wrote a biography with my sister and i have it in front of me. he was in an f flight group. his job was to protect the flight leader. and they were assigned, it was between taiwan and the philippines and they were assigned to shoot down japanese planes and ships, which they did. so, it is just interesting to read back. he was in the air group a of the u.s. ticonderoga. host: a picture of the uss ticonderoga its diagnosis cv-14.

what was the name of the book that he wrote with his sister? caller: it is not a book but just a biography. he also fought in the korean war. i have three sisters and we lived on midway island at one point. but, he had not even met my mom yet when he was fighting in world war ii. the ticonderoga was bombed and his bunk was bombed, but he was outside. this little incident on november 23 was his first experience of flight. it is an f6f fighter. it says that when he came back he did not have any problems landing on the carrier. and i do have a picture of him and of his plane landing on a

carrier. and they used a big rubber band to stop it. host: was it the f6 hellcat? we will show you the picture. caller: i have it in the back. host: take a look at the screen, doesn't look like that? caller: i do not see it yet. i think it was -- what do they call it? they always told us what it was. host: was at the hellcat? caller: no. it was a fairly small one. but i am getting a blank. host: what was his name? caller: edwin heisel. he was in the navy for 20 years. that does not look like it. host: thank you for telling us

about him. for viewers who wanted to get in on this segment and were not able to, we will spend the last 45 minutes today coming back to this topic. stick with us and we will certainly return to this remembrance of the attack on pearl harbor. up next, melissa sanchez from propublica joins us to discuss differing political attitudes among latino voters and recent immigrants and how it played out in the past election. and later the conversation on december 7, 1941 joined by craig nelson the author of the book " pearl harbor: from infamy to greatness." we will be right back. >> american history tv exploring the people and events that tell the american story. more than 80 years after his death the recently identified

ray -- remains of david walker of virginia was buried with military honors at arlington nation cetery. he was killed on the uss california during the japanese bombing of pearl harbor on december 7, 1941. on lectures in history the first on a two point -- two-part lecture on the 1893 trial of lizzie borden, accused of mood -- of murdering her father and stepmother with the next. -- with an axe. she became a lasting figure in american popular culture. eyewitnesses were account what unfolded inside the white house on december 7 1941 as president franklin roosevelt learned of the japanese attack on pearl harbor and moved to assess the damage and america's response. watch american history tv every ekd and find a full schedule on your program guide or watch

any time at c-span.org/history. booktv, every sunday on c-span2 features leading authors discussing their latest nonfiction books. here is what is coming up. 2:00 p.m. eastern, booktv prevent -- presents coverage of the wisconsin book festival. you will hear about the history of refrigeration, the foster care system, what it means to be american -- to be native american and more. we will feature a gala held by encounter books to honor the heritage foundation president and students for fair admissions president for their work advancing american ideals and academic freedom respectively. 10:00 p.m. eastern on afterwards tjnglish talks about the rise and fall of one of the most successful cocaine empires in u.s. history in "the last kilo."

he is interviewed by vonda fe lbab-brown. watch on c-span2, and find a full schedule on your program guide or on booktv.org. >> washington journal continues. host: a discussion on political shifts among latino voters and immigrants. from chicago, our guest is melissa chance -- sanchez who cowrote a series on this project. the topline number that we want to start with is this one. in 2020 donald trump earned 35% of the latino vote in that election. one month ago, he earned 42% of the vote. so, we are trying to understand the reasons for that shift. what did you find? guest: a lot of reasons why more

latinos voted for trump and gravitating towards the republican party. in my reporting with my colleagues and others at propublica there are a lot of reasons. one thing that kept coming up for us in the reporting that might be surprising to some viewers is that the issue of immigration and how biden has been handling the border was really frustrating to long time latino immigrants in this country and their kids and this includes people who can vote who are u.s. citizens and people who are still undocumented. the reason, there is this sense of frustration and resentment that i keep hearing from folks all over the midwest that the new immigrants who have been coming into the country in the past few years, the folks who are seeking asylum from countries like venezuela have been given access to government privileges that undocumented

people who have been living in this country for decades do not have. this is caused a sense of resentment and anger towards the democrats. trump is the alternative. despite his rhetoric, supporting more people than ever before in the history of the station, even people who are undocumented said they would prefer him to another democrat. host: what are the benefits they are returned -- referring to? guest: the big one that has not been talked enough about his work permits. when you come into the u.s. as an asylum seeker you are coming in between ports of entry. unlike the mexican immigrants who have come before, they are trying to -- they are not trying to get away from border patrol they are surrendering and asking for asylum. if they are let in and some are deported immediately if the government has the capacity to screen the claims, but they are entitled to pursue ab of -- an

asylum claim in court in that system is backlog. as long as they file that claim, within six months they are allowed to apply for a work permit. it is like a golden ticket. i spent much of my career writing about a document of people who do not have work permits and you have to work with fake papers and for cash under the table and you are much more likely to be exploited at work. you are likely to not get paid and have the dangerous and dirty jobs. i have spent a lot of time writing about dairy workers in wisconsin, most of them are undocumented and they are shoveling, newer 18 hours a day. if you have a work permit you are more likely to get a job with dignified hours and slightly better pay. that is a huge economic advantage that the newcomers are

getting that long time undocumented people who have been here 20 or 30 years do not have. there are other advantages depending on what state or city. i live in chicago and we saw tens of thousands of asylum-seekers coming in, people who were bussed in by government habit. this city was overwhelmed and out of a sense of compassion and trying to be good humans we provided shelter and food and that costs millions of dollars. and i spoke with a housekeeper in chicago who is undocumented who has lived here for 20 years and has a daughter. and she was angry. when i came here i got none of this, she told me. and i have been paying taxes for all of these years. a lot of folks that i say if you pay your taxes and do not get in trouble there is a path toward citizenship. she is working for cash cleaning houses and doing her best. there is the work permit and the

local state or federal governments helping the newcomers and in states like wisconsin where i spend a lot of time, undocumented people are not allowed to drive. they are banned from drivers licenses. we all know that enroll cart -- rural parts in the country it is difficult to live without driving so those folks in states like wisconsin drive anyway and risk getting caught by police and getting ticketed. i have talked to people who have paid thousands of dollars in fines for getting caught driving without a license. the asylum-seekers, if they are good with their immigration court cases and have the right id and can pass the test they can get drivers licenses. just a couple of days ago i was at a bakery, a big popular mexican bakery talking to the manager. she told me how frustrating it is that she has lived here for 19 years and have been paying

her taxes and has not gotten in trouble and she cannot legally drive but those who are coming into wire money home have drivers licenses. it causes a lot of hurt for her. and she cannot vote. she is not a u.s. citizen, she is undocumented. she told me clearly that if she could, she would have voted for trump. host: how did this issue of resentment and frustration that you described, how did this play out against the issue of mass deportation, with a stepped-up focus against deportations and a second trump administration? guest: i ask that question to everyone because they think it is hard to reconcile. and the woman at the bakery for example and i asked her she told me about how during the first trump administration she knew that it was called collateral damage. sometimes i spank -- i.c.e. micro after a criminal and in

the process catch another undocumented person who is just a bystander but since they are undocumented everybody got shipped out. she knew that. she said she was so afraid and she lived in a constant panic, especially early. she was afraid she would be deported. this time she is not so afraid and i asked her why and she said that trump is all talk and that last time around the deportations that everybody feared were not as widespread and she does not think it will happen this time. she lives in wisconsin and a lot of the clients coming into the place are immigrant workers. and dairy like a lot of industries could not exist without the labor of undocumented immigrants. so she has this pragmatic sense that this economy cannot survive without people like her, and she does not think that trump will do it. and we will just have to see.

host: melissa sanchez with us for the next 25 to minutes. the phone lines are split differently. latino voters, 202-748-8000. immigrants to this country, 202-748-8001. all others, 202-748-8002. we will get to your questions. melissa sanchez, what should viewers know about whitewater, wisconsin? guest: i spent a lot of the past few months in whitewater which is a city between madison and milwaukee with 15,000 people. propublica, me and my colleague spent a long time there because it is a city that has seen a huge number of asylum-seekers. it is gigantic -- it is not gigantic compared to new york, chicago or denver. a lot of them were seekers from a country they cannot point

their finger to and people were confused about how and why they all showed up. they were not bussed in, but folks would come from word-of-mouth. and the city got a lot of attention late last year and early this year because the police chief was simply becoming overwhelmed with the large number of new immigrants in his city who were driving without a drivers license. i said earlier if you were in asylum-seekers you can get a drivers license but it is not quite simple. you need to pass a test and a lot of people coming from nicaragua had never driven a car before. they are used to getting around on a mule. so there is a learning curve. and they are often illiterate so reading a test even in spanish is challenging. and you need to get the right paperwork and there is a lot of steps. while folks are trying to get a license they are driving illegally and that was causing a problem for the police.

he wrote a letter to biden asking for help saying that we are not trying to be racist or say that anybody has a bad person, but as a police chief we are struggling and we have one bilingual cop and all of these people do not speak english. there are a lot of issues and we need resources. and what he was describing is a sentiment that a lot of people have experienced in different ways across the country, whether it is at schools or hospitals. it is hard to talk about in this political climate where if you say one thing you might be seen as a racist or somebody who wants to open borders. for people like this chief and the people in the community it was like all of these people are here and the government lets the people be here and that is great. but the presence is causing some problems. and he was not saying that these were all criminals and they were murderers and rapists on his streets because of them.

that was not true. trump would make that kind of allegation and say that migrant crime was ruining this town. and that was not true either. the biden administration did not respond to the letter for quite a while. and when it did it offered a program that was not actually available to a place like whitewater. that left the chief in the city in a quandary like how are we supposed to deal with this? the fact that all of these new immigrants have come to a place, there are going to be challenges. you want another bilingual cop and he wanted a social worker of sorts in his department to help folks with issues like abusive landlords or things that were really outside of the purview of a police department. and so we spent time in whitewater because of how these dynamics were playing out. and i am straying from the cot -- from the topic but there were already immigrants living in

whitewater and mexican immigrants and a lot were undocumented when they came and they still are. for folks like them they are sitting back and saying what about us? we are here too. the dynamic between all of these communities playing out is something we have seen all over the country and it is complicated. it is not something that we can talk about in a quick soundbite but it is the reality. immigration is messy and it causes people to have really extreme emotional reactions. and it is good to spend time talking to folks and listening to them where they are at. host: and good to read some of these stub stories by propublica. propublica.org. here is one of the headlines of the topics. immigrants' resentment over new arrivals help boost trump's popularity with latino voters. kirk is on the line for

immigrants out of oklahoma. good morning. caller: good morning. host: speak into your phone a little bit more clear so we can hear you. caller: ok. good morning, how are you guys? host: doing well. what is your question or comment? caller: i am an immigrant myself. i got in under the obama administration. i came in legally. and me as an immigrant i would never hate on the new immigrants that come in. i know some of these people who support trump are on the bandwagon. my thing is that nobody is going to be skipped whether they have a shirt that they can support trump or not.

yes, he might not accomplish all, but he will create a lot of havoc. the reason i say that is you know, it is fear. people are going to get caught up by being aggressive -- by being arrested and going through immigration court. and if you do get a bond when it is arrested it is cash. if it is 10,000, it is 10,000 cash. so yes, because it is a long grind.

and a people who want to get arrested have and the people who get arrested, that will take a wild. i was here for three years before i got deported wrongfully. host: where were you in custody? caller: i was in oklahoma. i spent a year in oklahoma and two years in texas. there is a big immigration center that holds over 3000 people. host: how long was the process to come in legally afterwards and how are you able to do that after being deported? caller: i am married to a beautiful american citizen. and i was able, with the proper approvals to come back, but it took me six years. when you get removed from the united states, it is a 10 year

ban. but because of the legal american, and anything that was available, i was able to come back after six years. host: thank you for sharing your story. there is kirk'siew of what mass deportations would look like and this is park storm who tweeted "the guest makes a valid point. just as trump did not build a wall he isn't going to mass deport all of his mar-a-lago workers." guest: it is really hard to know, i try to take people at face value but trump has said a lot of things that are just logistically impossible. and so much of american business including mr. trump's has depended on immigrants. we have not had an honest conversation about that in this country. it is a hard conversation because businesses benefit from

being able to hire cheaper labor that comes at different costs. and one of my colleagues wrote about this earlier. the business community at the past has been advocating for reform because it is good for business. and they have been quiet for the past couple of years because again this issue has become so politicized that they would rather not get involved. and risk losing people who are just convinced that trump is right and we have to get rid of everybody. i think the caller is right. people will get affected and people will get deported. lives will be torn apart. communities are going to see what it looks like to suddenly lose the people doing the backbreaking, dirty and ugly work that nobody cares about. host: let me bounce this off you

that we just got during the convsaon. "most of the latinoshat support donald trump are products of ronald reagan's amnesty back in the 80's and they have forgotten when they were the ones hiding and hoping they would not get deported." what do you think? guest: yes and no, not everybody i talked to benefited. to be clear, not all latinos voted for trump, most did not. they are not the ones who got trump elected. the ones who did vote for trump, some of them came here legally before reagan. and a lot of people who are undocumented today came after amnesty supports trump. i have heard this criticism a lot and i think it caught a lot of vitriol and pushback from the left, which propublica does not always get. we heard from a lot of really angry democrats. i heard that de rosa should be

the last one -- the first one on the bus from -- the bus back to mexico. it is important to point out that the undocumented folks that we interviewed, they did not have a ladder and they still do not have a work permit, drivers license and all of the things. it is complicated. there is a human story and people are afraid of losing out. there is the whole resentment thing we talked about for all sorts of voters. i think there is a lot of factors that come into play and this is one of them. i happen to see it in my reporting and in my community where i live in chicago. and a lot of my colleagues have been hearing. host: philly on the line for immigrants. good morning. caller: good morning c-span and jon, i have not talked to you for a while.

i want to address the political shift among latino voters and immigrants. i will take immigrants, we are all immigrants going back to that place of fantasy and love at all of that. and picking up along the way -- along the way materials along the journey. as for latinos the narrative is wrong. there is no such thing as a latino people. we are native indigenous american people, whether you are from south, central or north. we are not latino,, there is no such thing. the political shift is this. please stop saying that we are latino. we are not latinos. c-span, stop talking about people that are latinos, there is no such thing. we are indigenous people of this

native american's toil. -- soil. host: got your point. guest: i appreciate the comment. it is an easy way to describe a bunch of people and it is true. if you talk to an immigrant from mexico or argentina they will not say i am latino they will say mexican or mexican-american or argentinian. it is a helpful umbrella term. we have heard this over and over again and i hope people remember this. not everybody is the same. even within one family from mexico that came from the same -- at the same time you can have different perspectives. you can have siblings who vote differently even though they have the same parents. people are not the same because they came from the same hemisphere. i appreciate what you're caller is saying. history is complicated. a lot of us came from indigenous peoples but then there were the stand -- the spaniards so it was complicated. host: let us go to central

western wisconsin and tim. go ahead. caller: yes. i happen to know that i remember when i was a kid, cesar chavez used to stand on the border with some of his people and he did not want people coming in illegally because it would drive down the wages for all the other people, the brown and black people. illegal immigration is putting incredible stress on our educational institutions and medical institutions and all of the garbage that they are the only ones who do all the bad jobs. i have friends who do the same kind of jobs and we have unemployed people. if they do not want to do the job they should be forced to do the job. so please stop with the fallacy that they are the only ones who will do the job. go to denver and chicago. i have a say stir -- a sister who leaves -- who lives in each

city. they have illegals all over the airports in the streets and the crime rates have skyrocketed. they have illegals at four star hotels. i am a veteran and there are veterans sleeping on the streets and illegals are sleeping in these four star hotels in new york, l.a. and chicago, so, even though this is a nice low propaganda piece you have going, i am here to expose you. thank you. guest: i appreciate the comments and i think we have heard that sentiment from a lot of people. it is complicated. you are right, a lot of people are unemployed and why aren't they doing the work? you do not know how many farmers i have talked to who tilled me they have not had an american apply to work shoveling manure in years. does that mean they have to raise wages?

probably so right now they are paying 12 to $14 an hour. there is no overtime in farms and i want to make sure people know that. you do not have access to overtime pay. they have to raise wages and then are we willing to pay eight dollars a gallon for milk, may be. but to really question this system that exists that is unfair, that means that somebody will get paid less and 70 will not be working, that means that us the consumers will have to pay more for the basic stuff that we depend on and that immigrants are producing and we have not figured out whether we want to do that. instead we have kicked the can down the road. and you are right, there were immigrant sleeping in the airports in chicago. they were sleeping at the police stations and on the street. we are not saying that because they have been housed and some of them have resettled. we still have a homeless population that preexisted the immigrants that came in got that

attention and that has caused resentment. one of my colleagues wrote about this in denver, which had been struggling with a huge homeless problem. some of the people who had been on housed for a long time just felt frustrated to see these newcomers coming in and more quickly get access to the type of housing that they would have liked to have. and i think they have become -- they are just not easy moral questions. what do you do when all of these people are already here? like, what should good humans do? and they are not easy because there is not an infinite number of resources. and we have not had the political will to increase that pot. as the pot gets divided by more and more people some people will get less. and we have not figured out if that is ok. i appreciate the caller.

i think and i hear you, it is really hard. there is not a good answer. i think no matter what way you turn, somebody will feel the pain and the hurt. host: gigi is in virginia. good morning. caller: good morning. i wanted to ask a question of your guest. do you believe that the background that these immigrants have, the educational background in the country is that they come from make a difference? for example i came to the united states when i was almost 14 in 1969. i had a wonderful education in my country of birth. and i know many south american countries that are offering incredible education to their population. even free college. those immigrants coming to the

united states well educated, perhaps illegally but well educated, and that makes a difference in the way they are able to basically access all of the things available to them. and immigrants who are coming from other locations where they are not being educated in such a way are perhaps not able to access the same benefits that people who are educated are able to access. and therefore, yes, they create this resentment of why are those people mostly from south america accessing these benefits? the truth is that south america is doing a good job of educating their population. and to equate south american countries to central american countries when it comes to educating their population is absolutely bizarre, in my view. host: go ahead.

guest: it is an interesting call. we are not getting a lot of uruguaians. i do not know enough about the political situation but it is not a country that has a collapsed economy and authoritarian state that has sent millions -- millions of venezuelans have left because it is impossible to live. maybe venezuela had a better educational system but the economy has fallen apart and people could not survive. that is why you have doctors and lawyers as uber drivers. the great education that might help them navigate the system but they still sought asylum. but to your question, there are significant differences in how well educated people from different countries are because their governments have been better resourced or not so well resourced.

i spent some time a few years ago talking to young teenagers who had come from guatemalans and who are working in factories at night and they were illiterate and they could not read in spanish. we wrote a story about them in their lives working in factories at night. i realize that even though we translated it for them they could not read the story. i think people are coming in with different levels of education, but i think if they are undocumented without access to some of the benefits you can get as an asylum seeker you are in a rough place no matter what. you do have former bankers or accountants working side-by-side next to mexican folks who came from rural parts with lower education. that is true. but you also have a lot of asylum-seekers from countries like venezuela and colombia who because of that status as an

asylum-seekers and may be helped by their education level or their ability to move around in the system, they are able to get through the system and get better jobs. i think the caller is right, there are differences. i do not people are trying to compare education systems, but you are also not seeing a bunch of uruguayans at the border. host: propublica.org is where you can see her reporting. you have talked to a lot of illegal immigrants. do you get a sense that there are large numbers of illegal immigrants who want to vote in federal elections illegally? guest: no. i know that is something that is set a lot by the right, and i have not encountered that. a lot of the people i talked to dream of becoming a citizen and voting. but i have not met anyone who has attempted to vote or even brought up that notion. i do understand that we are

worried about that our system is valid. i do not think this is a place where it is happening. i appreciate that question. host: patrick in new hampshire. you are next. guest: hello -- caller: hello. i think i heard you say something about the child and family separation under the first trump term and i was wondering about, obviously i am sure that you feel that that child separation, the 4500 or whatever children separated from their families at the border. i think there are 1800 left still not reunited. i wonder what your thoughts are on that compared to biden and harris' administration where they lost 325,000 kids so far, and that his family separation. those kids come here and they are never going to get to see their parents again.

our country does not even know where they are at this point. guest: i have heard that argument before about however many thousand that the harris and biden administration allegedly lost. i think it is more complicated than that. i am not an expert. my understanding is that a lot of these are unaccompanied minors that came without a parent and they are kind of plugged into the system, this federally managed system of shelters for people under 18 who come without a legal garden. they come with an older sibling or an uncle. and the office of refugee resettlement has not always done the best job tracking what happens to every kid when they leave the system. that does not mean that they are lost. that might -- that means that orr does not know where they are. i talked to 100 kids. most the kids who pass through

our 14 through 17. and they come here to work. and they might have an uncle or a brother in grand rapids or miami that they know they are going to go to and maybe orr in the past would check in on the kids a month or so after they released from the shelter system and they probably lost track of a lot of them. these are underfunded systems. and that was not a priority. that might have changed. this has been happening for a long time. i was writing about this under trump. i do not think they are actually lost is what i want to say. but the separations of families have happened under all administrations in different ways. that is true. host: let me try to get one in -- let me try to get in one last call. shay, baltimore. caller: thank you for taking my call. i wanted to have a quick comment.

looking at all the illegal immigration stuff that has been happening. i think this is a backfire of what american foreign policy has been doing. most recently, and venezuela. we enforced sanctions on venezuela. the british government pretty to -- pretty much took 12 billion of the assets and it will not give it to the country. we are trying to change their government. and this is what is causing the venezuelans to come to america. and we are doing it to them and they are coming back to us. this is are doing. the guests sitting there, she supports venezuela chains and she is advocating for it. and now she is talking about the blowback effect. host: let me give you a chance to respond. guest: i do not think i have been an advocate for any government, i am a reporter.

the u.s. foreign policy has had a huge effect on other government's ability to be run properly. there is a lot of factors. there might be corruption and other issues, mismanagement and etc.. we have imposed tons of sanctions on venezuela and nicaragua and cuba. and that is hard for economies to survive. i went to cuba 12 to 13 years ago and people have struggled to get basic necessity and foods. we are seeing a bunch of cubans coming in and a bunch of nicaraguans coming in. there could be problems already with the government. the government of nicaragua is repressive and authoritarian. that has happened and that has had an effect on the economy and then sanctions on top make things worse. "the washington post" did a good

study that looks at the issue the caller is examining and there is a direct relationship between an increase in people fleeing venezuela in the u.s. sanctions. the caller is correct except that i am not an advocate for any government. host: john in massachusetts has been waiting for something like 25 minutes. if you do not mind, go ahead. caller: thank you and i hope you guys gave me the same time you gave everyone else. america has not changed quite a bit in 400 years, right? i consider that no country or land is poor until you have colonial imperialism and you overthrow the country because you want democracy, but what you are really after is dirt and resources. so the big ones at wall street and the top 1% makes all of the money but the middle class suffers. that is why you have money for war and murder other people in

the perspective country. host: i'm running short on time but do you have a question. caller: in this planet, where can a brown person live in his country without being colonized by the superpowers that have bombs. in 400 years these countries cannot pull themselves out. when is it that american stop trying to get into other countries to putting dictators to sell as cheap oil? guest: i wish i had an answer and i do not disagree. it is hard. the u.s. has a lot of influence and power and capitalism and big business has had a lot of influence on our foreign policy for a very long time. a lot of these places. i do not disagree and i do not have a good answer. host: propublica.org is where you can see melissa sanchez's

work and the work of her colleagues as well. we appreciate your time. guest: thank you. host: coming up in about 25 minutes we are going to return to the topic of pearlarr on this december the seventh. we will be joined by craig nelson, the author of "pearl harbor from infinity to greatness." in the next 25 minutes we are you have open for them. the phone numbers are on your screen and we will get to your calls after this break. ♪ >> 25 years ago malcolm bradwell published his bestseller "the tipping point" about how ideas and behavior spread to create positive change. friday mr. gladwell in his

sequel looks at the rise of opiate abuse and medicare fraud. >> these guys in the fraud task force took a picture of an office building in miami that had been divided up into hundreds of tiny closet size offices. each of which are basically a mailing address for a different fraudulent medicare provider. to see this office that was the size of a broom closet it would be no one in it or one person in it be -- but the computer would not be plugged in and on the door there would be some placard that says greater miami health care research center. and/or rehabilitation center and it would be a front for the collection of fraudulent medicare payments. and there would be hundreds of

france in one building. -- fronts in one building. do not find that in minneapolis but miami. >> malcolm bradwell -- malcolm gladwell with "revenge of the tipping point" on q&a. you can listen to that and all of our podcasts on the free c-span now app. >> next week on the c-span networks, the house and senate are in session. the house will vote on the final versions of water infrastructure projects to be constructed by the army corps of engineers and to add new federal judgeships. the senate will continue voting on the u.s. district court nominations. louis dejoy the u.s. postmaster general will testify before the house service and accountability committee on the finances, performance and the efforts to modernize operations. on wednesday, antony blinken testifies before the house foreign affairs committee

reviewing the withdrawal of american troops from afghanistan. watch next week live on the c-span networks or on c-span now . also go over to c-span.org for scheduling information or to watch live or on-demand any time. c-span, your unfiltered view of government. >> washington journal continues. host: some time on the washington journal for any -- for open forum. any public policy or political issue call in. i want to let you know about a busy day on the c-span networks. today at 1:00 p.m. eastern time it is the reopening ceremony for notre dame cathedral in paris after five years of restoration after the devastating fire. 40 heads of state, government and religious dignitaries will be in attendance. the president-elect donald trump is expected to join that. you can catch that live at 1:00

p.m. eastern on c-span, c-span.org and c-span now. speaking of president trump, he will meet with french president emmanuel macron today ahead of the opening ceremony. his first visit abroad since winning the presidential election a month ago. you can watch that meeting live just after this program ends at 10:00 p.m. eastern. that is where we will take you to write after we end. on c-span2, several programs relating to the december 7, 1941 japanese attack on poor -- on pearl harbor. the burial of a casualty from that day whose remains were identified just last year and we will be showing you that ceremony as well as the live memorial ceremony at the national world war ii memorial here on the national mall in washington, d.c..

that life ceremony at 12:50 p.m. eastern time on c-span2, american history tv. with that it is your calls an open forum. edna out of chicago, a democrat. good morning. caller: good morning and how are you? host: well. what is on your mind? caller: i have been paying attention to all of the appointments that trump is making. he is filling up washington with ex-convicts and sex offenders. he is even sending an ex-convict to france. jared kushner's father served two years in the federal prison in alabama. he is appointing him to serve in france. i hope that country will think twice before accepting a convict. and why is he so set on getting rid of the people that come here to this country? some of those people and like

this previous caller said, all of those people are not ignorant, a lot of them are educated. and they are here 20 or 30 years and they do not speak english. don't they know that that is a deterrent if they do not understand the language? and he is telling them to their face that he is going to send them out of the country. if he is going to get rid of illegal aliens, start with his wife, she is an immigrant and she has been here 20 years and cannot speak english. thank you for letting me get this off her chest. host: the first lady can speak english and you can watch several of her events. and the previous first lady. you can see her events, just type in melania trump. this is frank in silver creek, georgia. good morning. caller: good morning. i just have to make a comment on

one of the earlier callers that talked about how americans came to america and over -- and overthrew the native he said government. total nonsense. that is total nonsense. before 1800 most of the people who came to these country were either enslaved or they were indentured. they were not immigrants. immigrants come over here of their own free will. you need to get an understanding of what an immigrant is and what the other two, slaves and indentured. america has never colonized anybody. we have never taken over a country like the europeans have. if you look at history, england and their trading companies, france and spain, he would know that. unfortunately a lot of people are not too familiar with history and they do not understand the history.

we are a country of free enterprise and free market. it is our way that rebuilt this world twice after two world wars. and now, the media and watch what happens over the next four years. the world is going to be anti-american. and a lot of this was brought on by that fool in the white house right now. and we need to get him out of there before he totally screws up. host: that is frank m georgia. to the land of enchantment, albuquerque, new mexico. jorge. good morning. caller: i believe that biden should retire now and that kamala takeover. the ways in weapons have been turned against us. let this be a warning. american women have been and will be used again to drive the war. the loss of a son usually on a

ship for war, look at the spanish-american, the lusitania, pearl harbor, gulf of tonkin, what happens with clarksville, it was a second attack that showed that pearl harbor was anticipated. trump tried the first time, but during covid it stopped because there was an air traffic carrier that they were going to put in harm's way. be careful. host: how do you know that there was an aircraft carrier that they were going to put into harm's way? lost jorge. two tom in bennington. republican. that morning. caller: good morning and i love your show. the greater the united states -- the philippines was made part of that. and that was from the spanish-american war.

and on pearl harbor day there were 30,000 dead in the philippines. and what about the uss utah? it sunk too. and like i said, i love that program and please look up the united states -- the greater united states of america and the philippines during the spanish-american war. thank you very much. goodbye. host: tom in vermont. mark in florida. democrat. morning. caller: good morning. you are one of my favorites because i enjoy the way you challenge some of the callers. i am a little late to the game because i delayed my television. i wanted to speak to ms. sanchez. but i just have a couple of things. for all these people who call in and talk about how immigrants

are being fed and provided cell phones and four-star lodging, i would ask any american, any american in the united states if they would trade places with them? i would ask any of them if they would do that? my understanding is that i do not like the term illegal because if you set foot in this country on our land, you are entitled to an asylum hearing. it is not their fault that our system takes eight years to hear their case. thank you a lot. thank you for the time. host: before you go you said you wanted to talk to melissa sanchez, the reporter that joined us. what did you think of her story. i do not know if you heard the beginning about immigrants' resentments over new arrivals and what they received,

especially under the biden administration and that helping boost donald trump's popularity with latino voters, a 7% increase in latinos breaking for donald trump. caller: i just think that in general, people have short memories. i remember the boatlift. in south florida. i can guarantee most of those people that are assimilated now voted for trump. they all came here illegally. this is just like -- we elected the guy who said immigrants were eating cats and dogs. we elected the wrong guy for the wrong reasons. i guess you can hear my voice and still not over it yet. i heard a caller say to melissa we are all immigrants.

that is essentially true. the fact you're helping immigrant does not mean we can't help homeless at the same time or we can't help our veterans at the same time. we can do all of these things. it has to be the will. jon, you are great. have a great weekend. host: bruce in indiana. independent in the hoosier state. caller: thanks for taking my call. the reporter who seemed to me to be blaming the farmers for the work some of the illegal immigrants were doing, that is just farm work. i grew up on the farm. i did the same thing the whole time i was growing up and even after.

i would come back to help my dad. she needs to understand what she is talking about, because cleaning out barns and a livestock farm you will move the -- until the animals are taken care of properly. if people don't like doing that, they can get another job. it just gets very frustrating that biden has let all these people come in and now everyone is saying they are mistreated. well,. especially the kids. why would parents even though

they are in bad situations, i would they send them on this long trip just to get in the united states? so -- the other thing is about talking bad about the united states and everything we do wrong. possibly they need to be thinking about trying to straighten out their own governments. host: two miami, florida. -- to miami, florida. nick, republican. caller: good morning. i heard the caller from massachusetts saying everything that was correct as far as

america does overthrow other governments. they definitely do that. the caller from georgia saying america does not overthrow governments, we have been doing it for centuries. we have bases all over this planet. why? why are we so upset when somebody else is in our country when all we do is invade other countries and take their resources? god forbid they put up a fight. we label them terrorists and every thing else and destroy them. host: the vast majority of these bases, the united states military is invited to be there by some of these countries. what do you make of that? caller: the government invited

the american military, not the people. we never ask the people if it's ok to put a military base in your country. we don't have any foreign bases in america. that doesn't make any sense. why would i allow you to put a base in my country and you don't allow me to put a base in your country? or my military? host: do you think we should have other countries' military bases in our country? caller: we should not have bases around the world, period. we should worry about the american borders. if we want something from their country, let's trade. what do you have to trade? we did that before. now there is only, what? america, russia, china. the three big dogs.

anytime we want to come in your country, we have the military and the money to do it. despite what the united nations says we are going anyway. host: this is david in the land of lincoln, democrat. good morning. caller: good morning. i like to use nicknames of states. in your first segment about pearl harbor, i wanted to mention one caller talked about what civilians did in this country. my mother worked during the war as a riveter. at a company called bel-air bomber, who later became lockheed in marietta, georgia. one of the quirky things were, if you are in good physical condition they would train you.

but the main thing is they wanted good roller skaters because they had fewer trucks and the tools were in distant hangers. the woman would rollerskate out there and work on the planes. i have a picture of my mother and her crew. thanks anyway. host: are they on rollerskates in the picture? caller: yes, they are. host: did she rollerskate after the war? caller: i don't know. host: what was her name, david? caller: adis holland. host: thank you. albert in stockton, california. independent. caller: i will make it quick. my family is very big. i'm hispanic. i'm speaking clear english.

i don't even speak spanish but i am mexican. one half of the family voted republican, the other votes democrats. i will leave it with this. i believe trump will build the wall and stop the fentanyl and the flood of people. it is too overwhelming. it will take management. the government will manage it somehow. there are so many people. and, any kids out there in the cold, i would rather see them -- i don't care what they are surrounded with. a building. in a controlled environment. i know what a cold fishing trip feels like. i don't wish it for none of those kids out there. i appreciate all the callers that go back and forth. once again, my parents do speak

spanish. from texas. we made our way here. all my family pays taxes. my sister's son works at a lab. i'm speaking clear english. i believe trump -- the guys have to help the homeless -- said we need to help the homeless. let's fix the crime. people do come out and do well. i know that personally. i will stop rambling. i appreciate you always. a birds eye view from here to san francisco. i am out of stockton. i see it. the farmland. it is beautiful. that last comment the lady said, the people that are here, i have heard it from the people in restaurants. everybody has to go through a process. there is every color in america. that is why we don't have bases

all over the country. i see it. host: this is art in the tar heel state. republican. caller: good morning. i would like to say i have been watching your program for quite some time. i enjoy it. my biggest thought always is, if these people in these other countries have such a hard time, why don't they get together like this country did 200 years ago, have a revolution to redo their country and stay home where they belong and then we would not have 70 people running across our borders? -- so many people running across our borders? host: our last caller. 50 minutes left. we will turn back to this december 7. 83rd anniversary of the attack on pearl harbor. we will be joined by craig nelson, author of "pearl harbor, from infamy to greatness."

stick around for that conversation. we will be right back. ♪ >> book tv every sunday on c-span two features leading authors discussing their latest nonfiction books. coming up this weekend. at 2:00 eastern, coverage of the 2024 wisconsin book festival. you will hear from authors on the history of refrigeration, the foster care system, what it means to be native american and more. 8:00 p.m. eastern, a gala held by encounter books to honor kevin roberts. students are fair admissions president edward blum.10:00 eastern on afterwards , tj english talks about the rise and fall of los muchachos, one of the mt successful cocaine empires in american history. he's interviewed by author and

senior fellow wanda fell brown. find a full schedule on your program guide or watch online anytime at booktv.org. >> next week, the house and senate are in session. the house will vote on the final version of legislation authorizing water infrastructure projects to be constructed by the u.s. army corps of engineers, and new federal judgeships to u.s. courts. on tuesday, louis dejoy will testify before the house oversight and accountability committee on the finances, performance and efforts to modernize operations at the u.s. postal service. on wednesday, antony blinken testifies before the house foreign affairs committee reviewing the withdrawal of american troops from afghanistan. watch next week live on the c-span networks or on c-span

now. head over to c-span.org for scheduling information or to watch live or on-demand anytime. c-span. your unfiltereview of government. >> the house will be in order. >> c-span celebrates 45 years of covering congress like no other. since 1979, we have been your primary source for capitol hill, providing balanced, unfiltered coverage of government. taking you to where policies are debated and decided. c-span. 45 years and counting, powered by cable. >> 25 years ago, malcolm gladwell published his international bestseller "the tipping point" about how ideas and behaviors spread to create positive change. sunday on q&a, mr. gladwell and

his follow-up, "revenge of the tipping point," looks at the downside of social epidemics, including the rise of opioid abuse and medicare fraud. >> these guys in the fraud task force took me to an office building in miami which had been divided up into hundreds of tiny closet sized offices. each of which basically was a mailing address for a different fraudulent medicare provider. you can see this office the size of a broom closet. they would be one person behind the desk but the computer would not be plug-in. on the door there would be a placard which said greater miami health care research center. and, you know, rehabilitation center. it would just be a front for the collection of fraudulent medicare payment.

they would be hundreds of fronts in one building. you don't find that in minneapolis. you find that in miami. >> now come gladwell with his book, "revenge of the tipping point," sunday night at 8:00 eastern on c-span's q&a. listen to q&a and all of our podcasts on the free c-span now app. >> washington journal continues. host: today marks the 83rd anniversary of the december 7, 1941 attack on pearl harbor. joining us to reflect on the attack is legacy in american history craig nelson, author of the 2016 book, "pearl harbor, from infamy to greatness." i want you to start on infamy. what was president roosevelt trying to tell a shocked american public on december 8, 1941 when he said that sunday

would be a date that would live in infamy? guest: good morning. the entire idea of infamy gets to the fact that during world war i, known as the great war, japan was an ally of the united states. we were in the middle of negotiating treaties, including how much oil america would be exporting to japan during this entire period before december 7. pearl harbor came as a tremendous shock that night. -- roosevelt held his head in his hands and said, what is going to happen? i will go down in history disgraced. people had no idea japan was even capable of such a thing. this tremendous blow to the u.s. prestige and thinking and military honor set the nation asunder and set us on a new path to the future. host: should japan have known in december of 1941 that america

was a country that could rebuild a fleet and rebuild many fleets? guest: it's an amazing story. it comes from a number of contradictory people. notably the architect of the pearl harbor attack, yamamoto. when you look at what happened from a military point of view, almost everything the japanese did was brilliant but win the battle, lose the war situation. yamamoto was convinced americans would be so devastated by this tremendous show of japanese force that they would give up and just let the japanese do anything they wanted in asia. the reaction was quite a bit different from that. that is the surprise. yamamoto spent years in the united states. he had learned english from reading biographies of abraham lincoln. he totally misjudged the character of the american people. host: this is the attack on pearl harbor by the numbers. it began at 7:55 a.m. local time

in honolulu. 2390 american service numbers and civilians were killed. it lasted 110 minutes. half the deawere on the uss arizona. ven u.s. battleships were at pearl harbor. all were either sunk or damaged. all but two were eventually able to return to active duty. that is the broadest strokes of the battle. as someone who studied pearl harbor, what are some of the moments that stick out to you, the human moments when we have one of these days of remembrance, this december 7? guest: i have to tell you, instead of just being overwhelmed by the tragedy, you can be inspired by the heroism of pearl harbor. one of the major things i discovered in research is the fact there were 43,000 army and navy servicemen stationed on a wahoo at that moment. the --a most of the serviceman lived on the ground in houses on

the ground near pearl harbor. the ones on the ships were kids. you could get into the navy at 16. many people were trying to because it was the depression. you needed three hots and a cot in the navy. when we talk about the people that pearl harbor, we are talking about teenagers and very young kids trying to chase after japanese zeros on a bicycle and throwing wrenches because that is the living they had. there are incredible people that rise to the occasion of heroism and save thousands of lives and how they oversee evacuations and oversee saving people out of six inches of burning oil in the water. host: craig nelson is our guest. his book came out in 2016. his more recent book, "v for

victory: the triumph of world war ii." we are chatting with him until the end of our program today. phone lines to call in. (202) 748-8000 if you live in the eastern or central time zones. (202) 748-8001 if you live in the mountain or pacific time zones. that special lifer world war ii veteran -- line for world war ii veterans and their families, (202) 748-8002. and studying pearl harbor is there anything about the attack on pearl harbor that historians don't know yet? are there lingering mysteries still? guest: we don't really know if the 2403 dead number is accurate. we keep changing that number every year as more remains and more bodies are found. the attack was so devastating, men were left in dust.

getting an actual number for that is very difficult. it wasn't until very recently when i was researching this book that we found out the chaotic state of the japanese government. they went through 15 prime minister's in 14 years from 1931 to 1945. you can see this chaos taking place over and over again with squabbling going on between the navy and the army. the new picture we have about pearl harbor is how all this happened for the japanese side and how america could not have come up with a defensive strategy because japan had essentially lost its mind. host: your book is focused on the greatness side of that and when the turn was made. guest: when i talk to people the navy, they don't want to talk about it. they are upset about it. look, the shock to the system to the american system that happened at pearl harbor is the

reason america is the way we are today. the whole reason we have our giant military, are powerful navy, are tremendous army and air force and marine corps. the whole reason we have the international king of overseas business. the reason why we have not had a world war iii in 80 years is because of how america reacted to pearl harbor. the start of what we think of as the united states now began at that moment. host: has that turn from members of the navy not wanted to talk about it changed since you were doing that research as we sit here today in 2024? guest: one of my greatest moments as a historian -- i did a pearl harbor memorial at norfolk naval base, the largest naval base in the world. i'm surrounded by -- there is little me surrounded by admirals. the biggest admirals are all there. i'm expanding this whole idea

that at the moment it happened it was a huge shame but now we have the great navy we know today. it started right them. a number of the admirals burst into tears. it was an overwhelming experience. host: armando is calling from hawaii, up very late or very early. caller: thank you for taking my call. i wanted to share my experience. my mother and my sister on the morning of the attack on pearl harbor were in church in downtown honolulu. my mother told me they could hear the bombing. they would go out. they went outside and saw the smoke rising above pearl harbor. it was a scary thing. my mother told me they had to cover the windows with black paper at night. they had martial law and all of that. she kind of told me -- she worked for the u.s. army.

by the way, when they had the 50th anniversary of pearl harbor , i came home. i was in school on the mainland. i came with a pearl harbor survivor. it was really funny because the first thing he asked me was about a bar in downtown honolulu. that was the smith union bar where all the arizona people hung out. i wanted to share my experiences. i live 15 minutes from pearl harbor. it was a pretty scary day that morning. host: armando, are you going to make it down there today or have you been to any of those remembrance ceremonies recently? caller: i have been to many. usually when visitors come to hawaii i take them down there. i go to pearl harbor and take them. i think it is very important. they have the missouri and the

have the submarine over there. there is a lot of interesting things to see there. the missouri and arizona. they are bookends of the world war ii. one thing i would like to note and to add was the fact that the japanese did not destroy the drydock's. that was a big mistake. they did everything perfect but they did not destroy the drydocks. that was why the united states was able to, you know, refurbish those ships and get them back into war. i just wanted to share. host: thanks for that. let's let craig nelson jump in. guest: thank you for saying that. almost all the pearl harbor survivors in the military are not with us anymore. we are really relying on civilian memories like from your family. i really appreciate that. you brought up an important point.

an amazing story that happened after pearl harbor is the japanese did not destroy the drydocks. they did not destroy our fuel tanks which was important to get every thing going in time for the battle of midway where the essays reversed the course of the naval battle in the pacific and was the answer to pearl harbor. host: he mentioned the bookends of world war ii, the arizona and the missouri. is that because the missouri is where the surrender was signed in tokyo bay? guest: absolutely. host: take us to that moment for the american navy on the missouri years after pearl harbor and what it meant for the u.s. navy in the wake of what you discussed, the humiliation at the time of the surprise attack on pearl harbor. guest: the great history of the pacific theater in world war ii is called, "war without mercy." the attack on pearl harbor

triggered this tremendous visceral reaction across the united states. we sort of fought that were pretty much alone of the allies and pursued the japanese with tremendous vigor. by the time the decision to drop the atomic bomb was made, it was made on two very small cities at the time because all the other cities in japan had been firebombed by the united states. hiroshima and nagasaki were cities 63 and 64 on the target list. at the time of the arrival of everyone to announce the surrender, japan was pretty much in tatters. america had triumphed over the wars in the pacific and atlantic. it was quite a moment of change from 1941. host: barbara out of massachusetts. you are on with craig nelson.

caller: how are you? host: doing well. caller: i am calling with a comment more than a question. i was watching story tv. it is reruns of history tv. i always loved the date in infamy. what a great way to say it. he was writing the speech the night before he gave it. it was called a day that will live in history. they showed the speech he had written out. that morning, like an hour before, he made edits. he changed it to a date that will live in infamy. that is how that came about. host: craig nelson? guest: i have that speech.

i have a xerox of it. we have a quote from his secretary detailing how he wrote it and then changed the words and that was it. roosevelt was a very good writer but i did not know he was that good. really terrific story behind the scenes. host: the national archives with a rundown of fdr's day of infamy speech and how he crafted that. archive.gov. this is the first draft he wrote. you can see an image of his changes he made to the first draft in what we can put on our screen for you. he wrote -- he had his secretary grace tully come into right that speech. they write it has become one of the most famous speeches of the 20th century. yesterday, december 7, 1941, a day that will live in world

history was originally taken down. he went on to make the famous change. there is the original speech. anwar out of maryland, good morning. caller: i would like to ask -- my grandfather was there. he told me about the oil embargo the united states had placed on japan. i noticed he did not mention that on friday, august 1, 1941. the u.s. announces a ban on oil exports to aggressor countries, including japan. would you not say that was a precursor to the start of the conflict with japan, when the united states decided to keep all the oil from them? that was august. i noticed you did not mention that when you first started. guest: you are right, sir. during the 1930's, america was

the saudi arabia for japan. we supplied 80% of their oil. when japan started attacking the chinese who they treated pretty much the way the nazis treated the jews, roosevelt and many people in america got upset about this. we had a special relationship with china and the chinese. we felt like they were a little brother. they decided to attack them, tried to change japan's behavior by using economic sanctions on scrap metal and petroleum. they came up with a system where japan had to apply for licenses to import the petroleum, which means it could be shut down at any time. fdr liked this idea. he felt like he could have a noose around the japanese and yank on it when he needed to. when he went to meet with churchill, behind his back morganthou at state in

hutchison at state changed the rules so they were embargo and all oil from japan -- embargoing all oil from japan. it could not be used for military and was holding back. they cut back on all of it. the japanese felt they were being pushed into a corner and that was a big deal. the underlying reason for attacking pearl harbor was japan was launching one of the greatest military strikes in history. they would take over the european colonies in asia, from indochina. was a minor protecting of the flank while she had this huge operation going on. it was those two things that led to the japanese attack host: paul -- japanese attack. host: paul in new york is next. caller: good morning.

i think this is a great show you are doing this morning. i have a question for mr. nelson. my father was in world war ii. he was on the ship they got something somewhere in the south pacific. we as a family know very little about the events of his life. i was wondering, there must be a way i can possibly find some records of where he was. it just dawned on me. i am 77 years old. it just dawned on me that i would like to have a look at that. i know -- he was very tightlipped about the whole war thing. he was a boxer. he got malaria and that ended his boxing career. he did tell a story of when the ship got sunk, a horrible story.

he fished out his dead friend. they started in the service together. he was a goner. i guess they got after a couple of days. -- they got to shore and somebody showed up with mail after a couple of days. a guy read the newspaper. he got a letter from gmac telling him it would make big trouble for him. i'm sure that had an impact at the time. if you get into that question, i would appreciate it. thank you. guest: thank you for calling and sharing that story. one thing i came to believe was pretty much every man who served or women who served in world war ii ended up with a version of post-traumatic stress syndrome which they tried to cure by not talking about anything.

my father was stationed in new guinea as part of the army air corps. he had a japanese -- he survived a japanese strike and had to clean up the bodies of his dead friend. the first time i heard about it was because i started writing books on world war ii. he never mentioned a word about this until i was practically 50 years old. as far as your direct question, you can go unto archives.org. that is the national archives, one of the great treasures of our country. you can put in the name of your father and any details you can think of and they will bring up the information out of that one source. good luck to you. host: how did that story come out of your father? guest: he would say if i said anything about world war ii he would gloss over and not say anything. finally he popped up with this

story. i was stunned. we have pictures from all of this. he did not feel comfortable. they were protecting their families from the horrible things that happened to them. host: matt in washington on the phone with craig nelson. caller: i wanted to ask a pearl harbor expert this question. it is well-known that hitler was a fan of the united states, the early colonization of native americans. he was surprised. hitler was surprised we as the united states joined the allies in europe. especially given the socialist -- national socialist support and movement in a lot of parts of the united states in the 1930's, is it possible the data states would have joined germany and/or japan if we had not been

bombed during pearl harbor? guest: this is a great question. if the topic of the other book. this begins with a number of people wanting us to join the nazis. notably charles lindbergh. an organization that started out as college kids protesting against the -- just like vietnam. it was called america first. they tried to counter whatever roosevelt wanted to do and trying to help europe. people were better after world war i. they felt we had been suckered into fighting that war. they were completely hostile to it. as one country after the next fell in world war ii, we didn't want to get involved in any european wars. all the time this was going on,

the nazis were attacking our shipping in the atlantic. our shipping back to england and europe in the atlantic. sooner or later there was going to be a major loss of american life because of that underground war going on in the atlantic. the pearl harbor that triggered everything and really ended america first -- that was the source of the rumor that fdr knew about pearl harbor ahead of time, which is not true. that ended the conflict that was going on in america between what was known as the interventionists and isolationists. you are right in one way. pearl harbor turned a corner on that debate. at any moment something would have happened in the atlantic and we would have entered world war ii because of that. host: you touched earlier on frank and roosevelt that day at -- franklin roosevelt and his reaction to the attack. i want to show a video that is airing later today in its

entirety on american history tv. it is eleanor roosevelt. she recorded her memories about pearl harbor and what happened that day in the white house. she recorded them in the 1950's. this is the audio recording. it is about a minute and a half long. [video] >> i started looking very strained and tired. but he was completely calm. his reaction to any great event was always to be calm. it was something that was bad, he just became almost like an iceberg. there was never the slightest the motion that was a -- the that was allowed to show -- emotion that was allowed to show. while i was conscious of his tremendous strain, the first

thing i noticed was this deadly calm. then, almost the first thing he said to me was great bitterness and anger that actually he had hardly finished talking to the japanese envoys when this was being done in pearl harbor. beyond that, i had a sense, bad though the news was an horrible as it was to face, he was on the whole almost relieved to know the worst that had to be faced in this country could eventually meet it. this kind of feeling was something one always expected of him. i have never known him not to be ready to face the worst that

could happen, but always to be hopeful about the solution that could be found. host: if you want to hear that recording, american history tv on c-span2 tonight, 9:30 eastern time. what did you take from that/ -- that? guest: is fantastic to hear that northeastern seaboard voice. that is what the roosevelts talked like. i love to spend time with her and him. it's an incredible story. one thing that is missing from that description is the fact that roosevelt was the biggest navy guy you ever met in your life. he had been assistant secretary of the navy under woodrow wilson. he had people meet him at bed because he was paralyzed with his blue navy cloak. he would call the navy us and

the army them until george marshall made him cut it out. there were two portraits in his office, his mother and john paul jones. the idea that roosevelt with the loss of 2400 men in the navy is beyond contemplating. that is how horrible he felt. first he had let them down. he did not do a good job protecting the american people. then it happened to his beloved navy. that is how upset and enraged he really was at that moment. host: tournament is left with craig nelson -- 20 minutes left with craig nelson. we will take viewers to paris, france. president-elect donald trump is visiting with french president emmanuel macron today ahead of the reopening ceremony for the newly restored notre dame cathedral. you can see the honor guard preparing for the arrival ceremony. stick around here on c-span. that is where we will take you after this program. this is sarah in north carolina.

good morning. caller: my dad went in world war ii, to 1940 went and stayed until 1945. he never talked about it. the only thing i heard him say about the military, americans should be ashamed the way they treated the vietnam veterans. we should be ashamed. you have a great day. host: mr. nelson. guest: one of the amazing things to look at is that before pearl harbor, the united states military was in a terrible state of disrepair. at one point before the draft, we only had 135,000 guys in the army. 300 airplanes in the army air corps. we were to defend against the nazi hoard with these

items. they would protect the top of your skull and nothing else. they were given springfield rifles from 1903. a great deal of the effect of pearl harbor was waking people up from the sad state. we were 14th and power in the world, ahead of bulgaria. that is where we started from leading up to world war ii. host: jim is next. good morning. caller: hello? host: you are on with craig nelson. caller: yes. i remember world war ii. i don't remember the start of it but i remember during the war. everyone was involved. they told you when you could have your lights on.

i remember the ration books we had. we would have gum wrappers and stuff like that. we would peel the tinfoil off that was used as -- it was taken to a collection center. it was used as chaff for the bombers to fool the german radar over germany. i remember i had two uncles in the war. my wife had two uncles that were in the war. i'm very emotional about it because of january 6. i feel like watching my mother's house being burned down. that is why i am emotional about it.

thank you. host: any thoughts? guest: thank you for that story about the gum wrappers. that was known as chaff. it would interfere with radar but it also made it look like a much bigger invasion of airplanes was happening then was actually going on. they used this to fantastic effect in normandy where they made the germans think americans -- the allies were sending a giant force of airplanes far away from the normandy beaches. host: james on the line for world war ii veterans and their families in ohio. hello? -- caller: hello? i was 13 when pearl harbor was bombed. i became a world war ii veteran, one of the last of the 16,000 -- 16 million world war ii veterans. i got in 1946.

i served on six different ships. i am listed in the navy all the time i was in. i was on the flagship. went over to north africa. got on a new heavy cruiser and later got discharged when israel became a state. i was on a five inch on a heavy cruiser. the seventh fleet, eighth marines. when israel became a state and i got discharged in 1948, august of 1948. i was recalled to korea in 1950 and 1952. host: what do you remember about that day and how did you hear about pearl harbor? caller: well, we were in school. we was not in school but the next day after sunday we were in school on monday. we did not hear too much about it on sunday because we had just

had radio. radio was not too good back then. you had a hard time listening to the radio. you did not get too much radio. we did not get any information of it until we was in school the next day on the 8th. host: did you hear the president speech on the eighth? caller: yes. i am 9 -- albee 96 on my birthday. i was -- i will be 96 on my birthday. i was born in the late 1920's. i grew up in the depression. grew up going to school. eileen went to the eighth grade because i wanted to get into the military as soon as i could. i had to wait until i was 17. i just turned 17 when i went into the marine corps.

it was kind of a difficult life growing up in the depression and through the war. a lot of these historians try to tell about it. if you lived through it, it was a different story than what most of these historians know about, because the things we done, nobody seems to realize we were hungry. we had to go through the depression before the war. after the war, people did not particularly -- were not particularly interested in talking about the work. they wanted to get into a family and build a house and have a family. most of us, that is all we wanted to do and that is all i wanted to do once i got out. build a house, get a family. i have a fine family now. i have a son and daughter. my son died that had cancer when

he was 50. i still have a daughter. i have 11 grandchildren, 13 great-grandchildren and one great great granddaughter. i have lived through a lot of things i could tell you about. these historians don't always get the story. if you lived through it, you know what happened. host: thank you for that call from ohio. let's talk next pearl harbor day. caller: thank you. host: craig nelson. guest: i agree with you, james. thank you for sharing your remarkable life. can my research on the depression what i thought was missing was what our memory is of people inbred lines wearing their nice overcoats. it looks pretty good. in my research i found out the depression was just an incredible degree sometime with stories i can't even tell you

all of them. one of the most memorable is about a little girl in school. she is 12 years all and just starts crying and crying. the teacher says, what is the matter? the little girl says, i'm so hungry i can't even listen to what you are saying. the teacher says it's ok. you can go home and eat. she says i can't. it is my sister's turn to eat. that is how serious things were during the depression. host: james' comments. can people imagine a time in which an event like pearl harbor could happen and you would not learn about it until the next day? guest: i think you can make a direct parallel with 9/11. the destruction of the world trade center. we didn't really understand what was going on for a number of days. maybe things have not changed that much. host: roger in nebraska. world war ii. veteran and their families -- world war ii

veteran and their families. caller: my dad and uncle were in world war ii. your guest was talking about the condition of the military before world war ii. that ought to be a warning to everybody and now that our military get in that condition, which i think it is kind of heading that way at this time. also, my dad and my uncle joined the army at the same time. my dad was lucky enough to be shipped to trinidad where he spent the entire war i guess guarding the beach. that was lucky for us and for him. my uncle ended up in the army air corps as a gunner in one of the bombers. he was wounded and spent a lot of time in the va hospital's in his lifetime. -- v.a. hospitals in his lifetime. thankfully for our immediate

family, dad was lucky enough not to have to go into combat. he was talking about the depression. my dad grew up in the depression. some of the stories he used to tell would make your hair stand up on end. people really don't realize what things were like in those days. thank you and think your guest. host: craig nelson. end about 10 minutes we are expecting donald trump to meet with emmanuel macron, the president-elect's first overseas trip since the election last month. any thoughts on the importance of the u.s.-french relationship? comparisons today to that time at the end of world war ii and the beginning years of the cold war? guest: we have such an up-and-down relationship with the french.

i remember when we would not join the war in iraq under president bush. we tried to change the name of french fries to something else. freedom fries. that's right. at the same time they were our great ally for the word of independence. they have been great allies in wars over the years. people talk about the special relationship with the british. we also have a special relationship with france. france is going through its own political turmoil right now. there may be some excitement over this trip to notre dame. it looks like they did an incredible job with that. the pictures from that are incredible. host: you can watch it on c-span at 1:00 p.m. eastern today. that is when we will air the ceremony live. 40 heads of states, officials, religious leaders and dignitar