your tax-deductible contribution today. together we can ensure c-span remains a trusted resource for you and future generations. >> c-span is your unfiltered view of government. we are funded by these television companies and more, including charter communications. >> charter is proud to be recognized as one of the best internet providers and we are just getting started. building 100,000 miles of new infrastructure to reach those who need it most. >> charter communications supports c-span as a public service along with these other television providers, giving you a front row seat to democracy. host: joining us is benjamin johnson, executive director of the american immigration lawyers

association to talk with -- to talk about donald trump's immigration plans. guest: we represent 17,000 immigration lawyers, doing every conceivable type of immigration, whether it is asylum to highly skilled folks in every jurisdiction in the united states. what you think about the president elect's call for mass deportation? guest: it is hard to know what to make of that. i think donald trump is famous for what he calls the weave. what he says and what he does could be very different things. if he is true to his words and talking about mass deportation, i think it is deeply troubling and would have been honest ramifications financially, economically and socially. there are a lot of people in this country who have been here for a lot of time and working in the communities where they live. i think that the view will begin

to be shaped by the truth and not just by rhetoric and the truth is it is going to be very hard and very disruptive. host: what agency right now is in charge of finding and supporting immigrants who are here illegally and who are committing crimes. guest: overall it is the immigrations and. -- immigrations and customs. it is the added involvement of the border protection. those working together are primarily working to be responsible for that. host: do they have authorization in law to do so? guest: there is no question, the law that someone who is here without authorization is subject to deportation. i think what is driving most of the way that we enforce immigration law is a reality

check. it is the fact that because in large part congress has not done anything to align our immigration policy with economic reality, we have a lot of people here who have been here for a very long time out of immigration status and randomly enforcing law against all of those would be incredibly disruptive and difficult. primarily, most administrations have operated under the theory of discretion, figuring out who we can focus our attention and resources on because we don't have the resources to say we are going to try to find, arrest and remove somewhere between 11 million people right now. it is sad that we have gotten to the point allowing that to happen but the answer is not to be naive about the reality we are in now.

host: of those undocumented immigrants committing crimes, do they have a right to a lawyer before they are deported? guest: they have a right to a lawyer but different than in the criminal context. the proceedings can continue whether they have a lawyer or not. so finding a lawyer if you have been put in remote detention centers is difficult. many folks going through don't have a lawyer in don't understand it. it is incredibly complex and confusing. so they are not understanding what their rights should be. i also want to underscore, there are folks who are committing crimes in the united states but it is a tiny fraction of the undocumented population. host: what is the percentage? guest: 85% to 90% of the folks here in united states have been here for a very long time, the majority more than 15 years and

they have no criminal record. of the ones, 10% or 5%, they have a record but almost all traffic violations. there is an opportunity to focus on those folks because it is very small number. i know folks have been playing fast and loose with what the number is in the current environment. if they wanted to go after stu's criminals, that is something that is doable and across-the-board people would support. it doesn't help that under immigration law we have a very broad definition of what is a serious criminal. the definition of an aggravated felony can include shoplifting and murder. so that doesn't help with what do we mean by criminal alien. murderers, sure. shoplifters, i am not sure we should make that a priority. host: how quickly are they deported? guest: it can happen very

quickly, particularly if it is a serious offense. you could effectually have removals in that context in days or weeks if not hours depending on the circumstances. i do believe, as a lawyer, that the system can move quickly without losing our core values as americans which is everybody needs an opportunity to be heard. you can lose your case but you have to be able to make a case of what happened and assert your rights. i would be concerned about america in response to this environment giving up the things we believe to be true and sacred, which is a judicial system that is fair. it can beat fast but it should be fair first. host: headline in the new york times, trumbull need help to fulfill his promise of mass deportation. local level cooperation would be indispensable to make the policy work. guest: you are probably going to

need either a massive increase in capacity for the immigration and customs enforcement or cooperation with local folks. i think the idea of a sanctuary cities is a little bit of a misnomer. mostly it means, states are saying i'm going to do my job and focus on enforcement of state criminal laws and let the federal government do their job, but even sanctuary states or cities i think would agree that when we are talking about serious criminals, states would be willing to cooperate. everyone wants their streets safe. where i think there is disagreement is what do we do with the folks that have been here for 15 years and are actually important, productive members of the communities. treating them the same as serious criminals is a mistake. host: let's listen to president-elect donald trump on

meet the press last sunday criticizing the leniency migrants face to the immigration process. [video clip] >> somebody walks onto our land and wait now have to say, welcome to the united states. they could be a criminal or not a criminal. we released them into our country. we now they get a lawyer in the lawyers are good lawyers and do you know how many judges we have? thousands. here is what other countries do. they come into the land and they say i am sorry you have to go and they take them out. once they touched our land, we are into litigation that lasts for years costing hundreds of billions of dollars. we have judges, and you can imagine what is going on with

the judges. i have a lot of judges and i know laura about judges in any human in history. we have judges and every time someone clicks to foot for even one foot on a piece of art land, it is welcome to long-term litigation. to every other country when somebody walks on and they see that they are here illegally, they walk them off and take them back to where they came from. we have to get rid of the system. it is killing our country. host: benjamin johnson, your reaction. guest: what he is saying is that by getting rid of the system would get rid of judges and lawyers, that is a complete remaking of who we are as a country and is what distinguishes us from many of the authoritarian oppressive regimes we have always stood up against. i think he is just dead wrong. if what he means is we need to get rid of judges and lawyers in

the system. he is also wrong that everybody that comes in and sets foot in the united states is entitled to stay here. we do have asylum laws. there has been some manipulative by cartels -- some manipulation by cartels and smugglers up the answer is not to abandon asylum laws but invest in the system to decide who deserves protection and who has to be sent home. we can do that quickly and fairly without getting rid of judges and lawyers in the richest country in the world. host: how do you do it? how do you address asylum laws? guest: you need to hire more judges and create processes that are workable. you have technology and the ability to invest in lawyers that can evaluate these cases. these cases could move quickly and could be made in the matter of weeks or months rather than years. when you talk about people whose lives are potentially at stake,

that is what we should make. there is a lot of talk about the manipulation of the silent -- the asylum system but it protects people who are being persecuted in china for being christians, protects women who are in a pressure regimes where the taliban is treating them like animals. the idea that we can and are a place where people can receive asylum where they are being persecuted is something we should be proud of and invest in a system to figure out who deserves that protection and who doesn't. throwing that away because it is a challenge is a mistake. host: let's go to alexis in detroit, and independent. caller: my question is and i know the guest won't have an answer but i am posing the question for two c-span and if you could do a segment on this

on immigration with this angle. how many housing units are going to be opened up once the mass deportation starts and what is the effect going to be on housing costs should bark i believe millions will open up and housing costs will fall precipitously. this is the problem with having illegal aliens in our country and i just want to say to you, sir, i believe of the current modern immigration lawyers are bleeding heart traders -- traiters. guest: the last comment is wrong. we just believe in the system of justice and work to ensure the decisions that are made by the system have integrity. the integrity of those decisions are improved by their being a real process an opportunity to be heard. that can happen in an expeditious way but it is an important part of who we are.

in terms of housing units what you have to remember is if you remove all of those folks, the houses be available, but what about the jobs they are working in and what about them as consumers of goods in those communities. you have to remember there are places like topeka, kansas, literally paying people to move to topeka, kansas. you move there and get a job, the city will give you $5,000. that is because they are desperate for workers and citizens to be living in that community. maybe what we should do is be thinking about how do we deploy this resource, which is hard working people ready to make a better life for themselves and how do we put them in places where they can succeed in a legal way that allows the communities to benefit from that. that doesn't mean all the folks coming will fit into that equation but it means we are

missing an opportunity to say it, how about if those folks came illegally to places and communities that needed them. then the problem becomes an opportunity but that will require congress to look past the politically expedient solution, the rhetoric of mass deportations and think about, how do we create a system that will work and put immigrants where we want them and need them and create a legal system to do that. if we did that, i think we could absolutely solve this problem. host: we will go to pennsylvania, john, democratic caller. caller: mr. johnson, i was wondering if you could explain to me why immigration is a problem when the very people who wrote our declaration of independence and bill of rights were immigrants. we are immigrants. white is there a wall on the border when mexico was part of the free trade agreement, just

like canada. there is no wall in between us and canada. white is trump saying immigration is a problem. he is a product of immigration, you are a product and i am a product of immigration. host: thanks, john. mr. johnson? guest: i don't think immigration or immigrants are a problem. it is true that we are facing problems in the way that we manage immigration. it is not properly funded. there is too much political infighting and partisanship in figuring out how do we build a system that will work. our immigration system is the problem. i think immigrants are caught up in that. here is the basic reality. when you pick the world's largest economy against an immigration system, the economy is going to win every time. there is a demand for workers

and r