this weekend at 3:15, author stephen puelo with his book "the great abolitionist" discusses the life of charles sumner, who represented massachusetts in the u.s. senate from 1851 until his death in 1874. and then 4:45 p.m. eastern, elizabeth reese with her book " marquis de lafayette returns" which recounts his trip through the young united states when he returned after the revolutionary war. at 7:00 p.m. eastern, the lead up to inauguration day. american history tv looks back at famous inaugural speech is. this weekend speeches by franklin roosevelt in 1933, harry truman's 1949 address, and dwight eisenhower's 1953

address. watch american history tv saturdays on c-span2, and find a full schede on your program guide or watch online any time c-span.org/history. >> c-span is your unfiltered view of government. we are funded by these television companies and more including charter communications. >> charter is proud to be recognized as one of the best internet providers, and we are just getting started, building 100,000 miles of new infrastructure to reach those who need it the most. >> charter communications supports c-span as a public service along with these other television providers, giving you a front row seat to democracy. ♪

host: good morning. it is december 28. we are days away from the end of the year and a few weeks away from the start of the new era of republican-run washington. the country itself is anything but. we want to hear your thoughts on america's political divide. how serious is it? can it be fixed? for republicans, (202) 748-8001. free democrats, (202) 748-8000 -- for democrats, (202) 748-8000 . for independents, (202) 748-8002 . if you would like the text does, (202) 748-8003 -- text us, (202) 748-8003. on social media, facebook.com/cspan, and on x at @cspanwj.

there are some who think the political divide might not be that much of a problem. among them, andy kessler who has an op-ed that ran on december 22. "this country is strong precisely because we don't all think th way. new ideas come from new waves of thinking -- ways of thinking. you vote, you get som of what you want. the extremes of the left and right make the most noise but are still governed from the center our political divisions might seem like the grand canyon, but pre-1989 berlin wasbout real and literal divides. ours are wafer thin in comparison. for those who don't like donald trump, get o. many did not le obama years. i cringed with every utterance of the socialist concept of equity during the bio -- biden years. it is not in any politician's

interestal divides so we get the vast right-wing conspiracy and own the libs. the rest of us need to learn how to deal with it. there are many who believe that america's political divisions are a problem and should be reconciled. among them is senators more knack and langford -- warnack. they call for unity and a polarized america. raphael warnock of georgia and james lankford of oklahoma compared u.s. political polarization to family dynamics in an interview with meet the press. the comments from the only two ordained ministers in the senate, the nation grapples with a divisive post election ideological divide. let's look at some clips from that conversation on nbc's meet the press last sunday. [video] >> do you have conversations

about how you can restore bipartisanship? >> absolutely. i can tell you me and i'm sure senator lankford would degree it's as basic as the american public. e pluribus unum. we have differences of opinion. the issue is our humanity and trying to build and strengthen the american family. that is the spirit i come to this work. it was informed by my years as a pastor. i am deeply honored to work with senator lankford in this weekend recent days to think about how to do more work together. >> senator lankford told me about the conversations. how do you start the conversation? >> i don't think of this as a partisan work. it's american work.

most people don't think of themselves as republican, democrat, independent. they are friends and neighbors and families. how do people sit down and figure it out? unfortunately, washington, d.c. is a mirror of the country that nobody likes. those people yell at each other. i smile when the folks say that. what is thanksgiving like when your family is together? [laughter] family members get together. they see their differences. they have arguments. that is d.c. the difference is, we're not supposed to just come here and figure out how to be bipartisan. we are supposed to solve problems. 435 in the house disagree. they have to be able to sit down and be grown-ups and figure this out. >> do you feel like you are in the minority of people who care about figuring it out in washington?

conversations are fractured. >> i don't think i'm in the minority of who wants to figure it out. i'm in the minority who has hope we will figure it out. that is the emotion of the country. they want it to be fixed but can't figure out how it can actually happen. the latest paul was a that pole -- the latest poll was over 70% don't like the political direction of the country. my basic statement is, americans are made up of individual americans. when each person decides they will do a different, america decides they will do it different. host: mentioning some polling about how americans see political polarization. there is additional research from the annenberg school of communication with a new study showing political polarization between americans stays consistent before and after

elections. finding in a new study, researchers found this was not the case. there is political polarization that would spike before and after the election. political polarization remains consistently high before, during and after elections. even during contentious times. scholars have accepted as elections draw near, it recedes in the days and weeks following the election. in the current moment a contentious election season does not seem to ramp political animosity up or down. they found support for, credit -- democratic norm violations, support for political violence like hurting a protester from the other party, and effective polarization, the overall

measure of how it negatively or positively democrats and republicans feel towards the other party hardly changed from the pre-election period to the postelection period. you can call and share your thoughts on the political polarization in the country. for republicans, (202) 748-8001. for democrats, (202) 748-8000. independent at -- independents at (202) 748-8002. danny from arizona on the line for republicans. caller: merry christmas and happy new year. as i see it, this is my opinion which i think is pretty good -- i used to be an independent prior to the 2016 election until i saw with my two eyes with the democrats are all about -- what the democrats are all about. these are not the democrats of jfk, not the democrats of your

grandparents' generation. what they are doing to these cities with the lawlessness going on, which was so recently done. the illegal alien burned that lady to death on a subway in new york city. this is one case. these illegal aliens should not even be allowed in the country. they are doing all this bad stuff to us. the democrats are allowing them to do whatever the hell they want. host: what might help deal with political polarization in the country? do you think it is an issue? caller: right now i think it is an issue because no one listens to each other. these democrats, the aoc's and

the others, all these -- what is the word on looking for? anyways, they have their own agenda going on. they want to change this country. they don't like america. they want to change it into venezuela. i think that the politicians have to sit down and listen to each other. host: paul calling from england and the united kingdom on the line for republicans. good morning. caller: regarding politics, they don't listen to each other, the politicians. i suspect that's the way the parties is. it's on both sides, i think. if they work together --

host: looks like we lost paul. let's go to tom in new york on the line for independents. caller: good morning. thank you very much. i would like to say the lawbreaking in this country is beyond belief. it was all created by the democrats. donald trump has the border secured. they just went and completely crushed it. they are selling the border wall for five cents on the dollar. it's a joke. my company was put out of business by illegal immigration and the people that don't pay taxes. how does this country function? it is not right. it is not fair. the democrats created it. i think they should be disqualified from being in politics. the democrats are dirty, what they did to donald trump for the

last nine years. lying. russia, russia, russia. ukraine, ukraine, ukraine. then you find out joe biden and his kit have been robbing this country left and right. the democrats conceal his corruptness. host: what you are describing sounds a lot like some of the feelings around political polarization in this country. do you see any solutions to bridging that divide? do you think the divide should be breached? caller: we need to have the rule of law back in this country. everybody needs to abide by the rule of law. if we don't agree on that, we will not agree on anything. people can't just keep getting away with it while we pay taxes and pay their bills. why you're paying for people to come into this country, break the law. they are murdering people. no one seems to care, and i do.

i'm very tired of it. i'm glad donald trump won and i hope he takes care of the illegal immigration problem. that will go a long way to solving the problems in america. thank you very much. host: james in florida on the line for democrats. caller: happy new year. host: thank you. caller: everybody is finger-pointing at everybody. the people that come across the south border ask for political asylum in the court system. there is illegal aliens in this country that are not legal because they did not go through the channels asking for political asylum. the one in new york and all that -- host: several callers brought up

illegal immigration is one of the issues leading to political polarization in this country. do you think that is one of the major causes as well? caller: that is part of the cause. most of these people, the 10 million people that went across the south border asked for political asylum. there is processed by the constitution of the united states that every person has the right to apply. i don't understand why republicans -- the democrats follow the rule of the law. host: -- lyrical polarization in the country? caller: finger-pointing. i could say trump one time said we will have a civil war.

why would we have a civil war? i don't get that. due process by the law of the land and with the constitution and each state. the republicans said my way or the highway. they have to work together. sitting down and working out our problems. host: brian in waco, texas on the line for republicans. caller: the three previous callers, and this caller here, just explains everything right there. the two sides are on a different planet. this guy just said the 10 million people are eligible for asylum. the only reason they want asylum is because they know that is the way they get in. this country is more divided and probably always will be since the civil war. you take abortion.

there is no middle road on that. national defense. there is no middle road on that. i'm a republican and i have friends in other parts of the country. i can't even communicate with them. not on politics anyway. even on other subjects. people are just divided. it is something this country and will be for the rest of its being. host: brian mentioned this is a consistent state of america. there's an essay in bloomberg called, "how political polarization ends." it says history shows extreme political and social divisions are a mortal threat to democracy. this is by jennifer mccoy. it finds as americans digest the results -- this was closer to the election -- the presidential election and wonder about the future of the country, they must

reckon with the fact political polarization seldom simply abates with a change in leadership. in fact, history indicates democratic backsliding is a frequent outcome and sustained depolarization has usually occurred after a major shock to the political system. the shots are often violent. the good news is, depolarization is possible and often spurred by democratic reforms. the bad news, according to my research, is it is also rare. polarization is a mortal threat to democracy. if the u.s. hopes to avoid violence and authoritarianism it needs to contemplate significant reforms to its political institutions and reinvent a commitment to common purpose." gilbert on the line for independents. caller: hi. host: you have to turn down the volume on your tv and then go ahead. caller: please excuse me.

host: i will try to come back when you get your life together. helen in california on the line for democrats. caller: i think something people should be aware of is the truth. nobody wants to believe the truth even when it is the truth. i am a democrat. the republicans, every time i want to talk about the truth or show them the proof of the truth they don't believe it. they want to accept the truth because it does not fall into their m.o. of how they view the truth to be. the politicians aren't telling us the truth. i would say more the republicans and the democrats -- than the democrats. they tell us what they want us to believe, not the actual truth. truth is so easily looked up and found out. i can't imagine people don't want to take the time to look up things.

it is so easy. they are afraid to find out the truth, they are afraid to live. that is what we are doing , right? we have president trump that will be coming into office. he will be the president. we will honor and respect him. what if things happen and maybe, you know, things are going to change? that is scary. i hope and pray for the best for everyone. be honest with each other. even yourselves. thank you. host: dee harry mcgee says what would unity even look lik it is not something that ever existed. can anyone point to a period in whh they were not opposite poles of opinion? going back to the bloomberg piece looking at other periods of polarization around the world, the chart signs only 27 of the 105 cases the authors

looked that involved at least short-term depolarization without regime change, conflict or independence. only seven occurred within a democracy. the vast majority of 70% of these 105 d polarizing experiences -- depolarizating experience were menaced for a decade when looking at the long-term. nearly half of those incidents were later reversed. this illustrates just how hard it is to overcome pernicious polarization. even many countries that succeeded ultimately and/or cycle of polarization, d polarization -- entered a cycle of polarization and the depolarization.

caller: happy new year. i think the nature of democracy is a divide. it is human nature in a democracy to debate. you look at history, you look at our revolution versus the french revolution, there are 70 cases of this. -- so many cases of this. 1812, the federalists almost seceded from the union. adams was the last federalist president. john locke is the basis -- he spoke of life, liberty and property, the basis of our country of sovereignty. compare this to the french revolution, they found the philosophy of jean-jacques rousseau. it was basically saying property is the root of all evil.

they were more based on social justice. we see this today. we see the difference between the rurals and the city people. this candidate back to the 17th century of country party, the whigs versus the courts of the tories. this goes on today, this philosophy. we have differences of opinions. one of the problems is people say we should not talk politics. if you don't want to talk politics, talk philosophy. what do you want? freedom and sovereignty in a democracy or a country like communist china? one-party rule. that is the debate we need. we see today that china, it is becoming -- not the root of all evil. trump sees china as a threat.

they do more trade with latin america than the united states. trump values cheap labor. we need to talk about the issues. we also need to realize the difference between the political divide and political polarization. even polarization, people tend to really defend -- host: can you save more about what you mean about the distinction between political divide and polarization? caller: polarization is near the extremes. you will have extremists on both sides. you need to listen to them. somewhere in the federal papers -- i forget which one it is -- they spoke about democracy is rule of the majority. however, it is also the permission of the minority. the minorities tended to be overlooked in this country in all issues. it is majority rule. oppression by the majority is

what democracy can be called. we still have debate in this country. that is a good thing and it's healthy. host: i was quickly looking. i believe you're looking at federalist paper number 10. thank you for your call. steve was giving quite a bit of historical context to some of the political divisions in america. c-span spoke with retiring members of congress from both parties about what they think it would take to make washington work better. here are some of their answers. [video] >> part of the problem is that it's a reflection of what's happening in our society. if somehow we can deal with this issue of splintering of information, that people get a narrative that reinforces whatever their bias would be, often we find ourselves at odds because we have a different set of facts that are the foundation of the conversation. that has to change somehow. this place ought to be one of

the places where we can agree on a common set of facts. we are supposed to be smart people that are not moved by the siloing of information before us. >> downhill. there is a dissent into money, money, money, money and politics. i have authored, cosponsored every last form of campaign-finance reform. the supreme court did not help with citizens united. citizens united has allowed all this dark money. it is a system we would associate with banana republics. >> we need to spend more time really communicating and listening to one another. a lot of that is lost in the busyness of the day. >> i always try to lead by

example and set a good example for my colleagues and people back in delaware who watch what i do. i think the other thing is, leaders who understand what leaders are all about. i gave a speech about leadership that would fill up this interview. we need leaders who bring the right qualities to the job and demonstrate that. they are humble, not haughty. they understand their job is to serve, not be served. they need to surround themselves with the best people they can find. when their team does well, the leader gives credit to the team. host: some retiring numbers of congress sharing their ideas for what could help ease some of the

partisan acrimony in congress. let's go to some of your comments from social media. facebook. ralph says, "one solution to polarization could bto create laws that will prevent lobbyist donors from throwing money at elected officials. these politicians are all bought up except trump." christian clark says, ". not as long as trump and the ga movement remas entrenched in american society. they cost too much hate and divisi. once the movement has been disavowed and discredited, only then can we all start to work together again as one natio" michael thortonays, "the political divide is relevant. it is the economic divide that needs to be addressed." you can send us your comments on social media at facebook.com/cspan or on x at

@cspanwj. let's get back to your calls. robert in amarillo on the line for independents. caller: hello. host: what do you think of political polarization in this country? caller: i would like to make a note, not having -- on washington book review is a disservice to the public. the man is extremely brilliant. on the topic of today, the great barbara jordan could not convince people to vote their particular way in today's society. coincidentally, you just showed anna eshoo of california who made my point for me. political divide begins with hate. eliminate hate and call it out. anna eshoo mentioned the supreme

court, which will be my point. when you go out in society, who do you respect? for me, i respect large families. especially women with large families walking around in the grocery store as an example. it is expensive and demanded. when you have -- demanding. when you have an individual like amy coney barrett who has seven children become the nominee for the supreme court, she's a mother of seven but also poignant. she was first in her class at notre dame. immediately thereafter, chuck schumer comes out and makes all kinds of disparaging remarks about her having nothing to do with your values and her repertoire of skills. the left in general always challenged her values throughout her hearings.

there is no reason she should not have been voted 100-0 in her confirmation. so thank you very much for the topic. host: noah in alabama on the line for independents -- excuse me, for democrats. caller: good morning. can you hear me ok? host: i can hear you just fine. caller: democrats, republicans, they get this money. it is not just from lobbyists. it is like the visa lady. nancy pelosi her stock right before an investigation -- dumped her stock right before an investigation. they play by different rules. republicans do it too.

they got that $17 million payoff for stuff like gaetz in florida with the sexual stuff. democrats do it. they released all the settlements they got. they get these things that we don't have. as far as illegal aliens coming across the border, we should have a plan like the martha's vineyard deportation act. daily state for 24 to 48 hours and they was out of there -- they only stayed for 24 to 48 hours and they were out of there. host: what do you think should be done about it, if anything? caller: make them play by the same rules everybody else does. they live in these gated communities. they have extra gates and extra tile. martha's vineyard proved that. nancy pelosi, what i heard about

her husband being attacked, a month before that an illegal alien hit him in the head with a hammer, i thought it was because he got drunk and hit that illegal alien. they wouldn't even release the body cam. me you, they would release that body cam the next day. host: let's hear from jerry in richmond, indiana, the line for republicans. caller: good morning. i think a lot of it has to do with -- the lady from california said the truth. republicans cannot recognize the truth. if democrats would tell the truth it might help things a little bit more. we have been lied to for years. crime is up. joe biden is sharp as a tack. you try one guy for having classified documents.

the other guy you say is too senile but is running again for president. you already know he is too senile to be president. every now and then if they told the truth, it might help. all they want to holler about as trump lies. i think we have seen lies the last four years from democrats. host: e.j. on the line for independents. caller: i enjoy a spirited philosophical debate but to answer the question directly, and i want everyone to dwell on this, the fix would come with term limits. because every politician, the day after he is elected, what is he doing?

he is trying to get reelected. this just goes on and on. if you want to end corruption, it comes down to the money end of it. if you want to end corruption, you would just set reasonable term limits. i have been around for a really, really long time. since kennedy. i have seen the ups and i have seen the downs. i have heard the lies on both sides and recognize i am an independent. the fact of the matter is, if we had significant term limits it would end a lot of infighting and understand these guys are right now trying to give themselves a raise. with all that said, i'm just like everybody. the most important thing is to

get term limits on a general election ballot. we have to move these people out and bring in fresh blood. i'm an old white man but i'm so sick and tired of old white men on both sides saying everything they are. term limits. think about it. thank you. host: pete in massachusetts on the line for democrats. caller: hey. we have always had political divide but obviously it's at a fever pitch right now. were not that shining city on the hill anymore, our weight? -- are we? both parties are relatively people. i think the democrats are a little less -- relatively evil. i would like my maga, what is left of the republican party to ponder what do you think musk is all about?

he is an evil, self-serving person. do you think he cares when iota about you? you think rfk does? we already know trump laughs at his own supporters. he's in it to stay out of jail and for the fixation of power. i don't know what the solution is. we are too far gone. i think the lady mentioned the citizens united. the money, the lobbyists. it is a system run amok. special interests. i would like people to focus on these individuals he is trying to bring in. musk was not even in the political spectrum six month ago. his behavior is beyond reprehensible. he may be smart but he's a very evil guy. i would like people to focus on that. host: jim in hudson, florida on

the line for republicans. caller: one way to cut in on the fear of fraud is to on election day have the polling places open for 24 hours. if you are a local resident and can't get there in 24 hours, you shouldn't vote. my wife and i have been residents of florida for over 12 years. we have always gotten a valid and mailed it back for the presidency. we vote for people, mayors and that. we should be able to go to a local polling place in florida, show our residence that we live in kentucky and they should give us a ballot to only vote for president. if you can't go to the polls in 24 hours, if you're a local resident, you should not be able to vote. that would cut down on all this

fraud of getting ballots in all this. everyone should have to go to the polls personally, get a ballot, vote, put it in the machine and that is it. if you can't and you live outside, you should be able to vote for the presidency. you show them your kentucky license. they give you a ballot. it only has the president on it. you are not part of the residence down here. that would help tremendously. i appreciate you taking my call. host: barbara in oklahoma on the line for independents. caller: hi. i just don't understand why people don't see what is going on now. he put the swamp in charge. what do you think musk is? there is nobody more swampy then him. all billionaires are the swamp.

that is who is running this country right now. host: who is this you are referring to? president-elect trump? caller: yes. all he teaches is hate, fear, vengeance and violence. that is all he is about. this crap that he didn't -- host: how do you think we can bridge political polarization in this country if there are a lot of people at their might think like you do? caller: he should have been locked up 50 years ago. this man breaks every law and just laughs at us. they are acting like, oh, he didn't take a salary. he took his salary. he said they made me take it, but i gave it to charity. host: do you think there is anything to be done about

political polarization in the united states? caller: yes. get rid of people like that. don't suck up to someone who is destroying your country. he is destroying everything we have here. every decent thing. every day you let three hours of lies be told. today, oh, biden did this at the border. all biden tried to do was fix the border. host: there have been debates here on c-span over the years. when two brothers -- perhaps the most famous was when two brothers came on. oh god, it small. the phone call heard around the world 10 years later. it was 10 years ago this week joyce woodhouse made a phone call that was heard around the world. this was when two brothers, brad

and dallas woodhouse were on political strategist on opposite sides of the political spectrum were on c-span but also joined us this past week to -- last week in order to discuss efforts to bridge the divide and talk about that very same phone call from a decade ago. [video] >> you mentioned your mother. it was about this exact time when you were appearing 10 years ago that your mother called into this program. joyce was earning. this was that moment from 10 years ago. [video] >> you are right from down south. i'm your mother. i disagree that all families are like ours. i don't know many families that are fighting at thanksgiving. host: this issue mother? >> i was glad this thanksgiving

was the year that you two were supposed to go to your in-laws. i am hoping you will have some of this out of your system when you come here for christmas. i would really like a peaceful christmas. i love you both. host: december 16, 2014. dallas, how is your mom doing? >> she is still sharp as a tack. doesn't quite get along as good as she did but neither do brad and i. i noticed on that clip she said she loves us both. she didn't say she loved this both equally. we know that -- you have never seen anything like it. one thing about that clip that is interesting. i remember it. it did not sound to me at the

time like it does when you play the clip. steve scully said we have a call from raleigh, north carolina. that is all i heard. then he said the name joy. joy is my sister. my mom is joyce. i never heard the name. all i heard was raleigh. somebody from down south. that is what surprised me so much. the clip is a big part of me going, of god, it's mom. i was so shocked. host: dallas woodhouse wrote about this for the carolina journal. among the things he said, "brad and i use are fleeting fame to encourage people to discuss politics in a measured and respectful way with their families. we believed and continue to believe you can have sharp disagreements without believing

the other side is evil. yes, you can disagree with out being disagreeable. we succeeded more than we have failed." john in new york on the line for democrats. caller: this is john. sometimes it feels -- how can i say -- weird. republicans always think that democrats are stupid. democrats think republicans are stupid. because of their beliefs. take the books, like in florida. people in florida want to get rid of books. just out of spite. just to get back at the democrats. the democrats get back at republicans on certain things.

republicans -- everything started when donald trump went down the escalator and opened up his mouth. it is a shame that every time he talks he lies. he lies every 10 seconds. an republicans -- and republicans. look in the dictionary for everything donald trump says. they would not believe it. you can show them a picture. they would not believe it. you can show them anything you want. they would not believe it. just like when we had the tea party. then it was this party. then it was that party. i don't know why -- how can i

say -- people do not believe what they see. it is a shame and it is sad. most of the people out there do not do any staff that republicans think they do. host: what do you think should be done about political polarization, john? caller: sometimes -- that is why sometimes -- i don't know. i don't know. when bush was in office, you never had that. wait. when bush was in office, you never had that kind of problem. not of this fighting. none of this family against family fighting. you didn't even have that when john mccain was running for president.

only one person said obama is a communist. obama was this. obama was that. it has to start with republicans. i'm sorry to say this. republicans have got to stop doing what they do. the only hurt everybody else. if they stopped some people from lying, especially donald trump, just told people that donald trump is lying -- host: rebecca on the line for republicans from fort smith, arkansas. caller: hello. the guy from new york, good lord have mercy. you are delusional. the thing is, 75% -- no.

three times more republicans than there are democrats. that election proved that. joe biden is going to go down as the biggest lying president in modern history. that has already been talked about. he lied about everything for four years. the democrats have listened to this garbage and everything is the republicans' fault. that is such garbage. have a good day. host: shawn and florida on the line for independents. -- in florida. caller: this discussion proves a point i'm about to make. there is no [inaudible] i don't see any way out of this other than devolving into some sort of conflict. physical conflict. the two sides are so far apart. the only time we have actually been like this was in the 1850's

and 1860's during the civil war. i am hoping to -- open to discussion. [indiscernible] we don't discuss these much. as much as we love each other and respect each other, we don't think that love and respect would last through a discussion. thank you for taking my call. host: and dependent senator kyrsten sinema and her farewell address last week spoke about political division and cautioned against the risks it poses to our country. [video] >> we have cleared the way for work settlements, land transfer deals, water deals, economic certainty. all by listening to one another. not to debate or rebut, but to understand. it is this very marketplace of

the diversity of ideas that makes our country great. the knowledge that with dialogue and competition we are driven to be more thoughtful and creative. that is why despite the challenges facing our country, i remain hopeful. america is still the freest, most creative and innovative place in the world. we are the birthplace of emerging technologies in medicine, artificial intelligence, energy, robotics, all revolutionizing the global economy. the opportunities created by american ingenuity are limitless. we must not let our politics hold us back. america still the shining city on the hill. it is up to each of us to protect it and strengthen it. we cannot afford to let political differences stand in the way of what tomorrow may bring.

we must hold firm to those guardrails, our shared commitment to the principles our forefathers built this great country upon and the ability and willingness to see the decency in each other, our fellow citizens. we must choose the better angels of our nature. host: back to your calls on the political divide in the country and whether it can be fixed. ted in ocean view, hawaii, line for democrats. caller: good evening. it is still evening here. host: apologies. caller: i have been listening to a lot of people. i think the most important thing is that people vote. so many millions of people don't vote. i have talked to a lot of them myself. my goodness. we need to make our voices heard and vote.

there is going to be divided and i don't think we can get away from that. you can talk about it for 50 years. if you vote and the votes are counted and tallied and the winner wins. being a democrat, i'm not feeling all that great right now because i know a lot of people did not vote. if those people would have voted, we would not have the president we have toda -- next month. that is really important, that people need to activate their emotions and get out there and really vote. it will make the difference. trying to change the divide. i have watched it tear apart families. i think people needed to vote. i have never missed a vote since 1972 when i was in the vietnam war. richard nixon was up for president. that was my first chance to vote and i have always voted. i think everybody needs to do

that to keep our country going. make your voice heard and vote. don't argue. vote. host: angela in california on the line for independents. caller: how are you doing? i want to say that i feel the question of political divide in the united states. this country started as republican. you talk about your forefathers. then they split into democrat. what is the political divide/ -- divide? if we don't address what the divide is, and like the man said , the civil war was to free the slaves. what is the next civil war going to be about? -- politically divided on? congress needs to sit down and hold a closed door meeting and get it together.

you have all these races coming in. when y'all say races, i go what? there's only the human race. it is ethnicity that is the issue in this country. you keep going on about the immigrants but you have not dealt with the black slaves. you have not dealt with that yet. to me, that is what your political divide is about. you gave asians reparations and they bombed pearl harbor. host: lee in alexandria, virginia. the land for democrats. caller: good morning. i think everyone has blind spots. when you interact with people who are different from you often you can learn something and remember it begins with you. we have different strengths and

weaknesses. often the loudest voices in the room are not necessarily the smartest. they are the ones with the best ideas. i happen to be a shy person. if someone is bullying me, i am going to walk away. i am reminded of the song "city on the hill." if you look at the lyrics, it talks about how people can learn from other people who are different from them. did you hear the city on the hill, said one old man to the other. it shines bright and it would be shining still with the all turned on each other. this was in 2011. this is an old story. we need to be patient, listen to other people and learn from each other. host: kerwin in nacogdoches,

texas. good morning. caller: good morning. i love everybody. i love jesus christ. i believe the problem is not loving people that say they love christ -- our constitution -- it addressed everybody. [inaudible] there is no democrat, republican, independent and heaven. there is only christ. if enough people repent, turn away from their ways, he will restore this land. the problem from that is man -- they want to have a man be their king, their savior or were not.

the bible speak bad about that. man putting faith in man. i don't care if you are democrat, republican, whatnot. if you do something wrong on one end, it's amazing if you are republican or democrat you can do the exact same thing. evil is another party. people vote against their own interests just to save their party. it's amazing. always be aware of all things. with atg today -- being woke is bad. host: we will be discussing the concept of wokeness in the next segment so stay tuned for that. john from california on the line for republicans. caller: thanks for taking my

call. i would like to say one way is to solve the problem. we had for years where the border has been a mess, a problem not being solved. everybody is fighting over it. if somebody can just step in and completely solve that problem. you have a decisive person like trump. the more problems he solves, the closer we are going to get. like he says, success will solve a lot of things. one more thing i wanted to say. i am really excited about the cabinet being one of the solutions. a lot of the members are gen xers. young people will get more involved. that's a very good solution. i think all and all -- in all,

trump will solve two problems and that will help fix the political divide. i think we can move into the future with some new ideas. i think it is like bob dylan said, the times are changing. you don't criticize what you don't understand. i'm pretty optimistic once trump gets in and makes good strong moves a lot of these political divides will be reconciled. i think it will solve the issues of crime, the border, a lot of things. i am hopeful. host: jean in detroit on the line for democrats. caller: good morning. i wanted to say one of the ways to begin to solve things is i feel like so many problems are caused by the love and pursuit

of money and power. i grew up when all businesses were closed on sunday. we had a lot of family values. i think we need -- especially professing to be a christian nation, which honors sunday as the sabbath day, that we need to restore the sabbath. so all of this can be off the same day and have family connections. if we so desire to go to church. if we don't, we still have the same day of rest and can interact with one another. just one thing for me. a lot of this rancor and dissension begin with newt gingrich of georgia. prior to that the representatives, the senators,

when they were elected they would move their families to washington so they all interacted -- host: i'm going to have to stop either because we are out of time for this segment. thank you to everyone who called in to share your perspectives. coming next,e are going to continue with th week's holiday authors seri on "washington journal." we are in the midst of conversations with america's top writers on a variety of public policy and political topics. after the break we will be joined by author frank buckley to discuss his book, "the roots of liberalism." we will be right back. ♪ ♪

>> american history tv. exploring the people and events that tell the american story. this weekend author steven puleo with his book, "the great abolitionist," discusses the career and life of abolitionist and politician charles sumner, who represented massachusetts in the u.s. senate from 1851 until his death in 1874. then author elizabeth reese with her book "lafayette returns," recalling the 1824-1825 trip lafayette took through the young united states when he returned after the revolutionary war. and leading up to inauguration day american history tv looks back at famous inaugural speeches. this weekend, speeches by franklin roosevelt in 1933, harry truman's 1949 address, and dwight eisenhower's 1953

address. exploring the american story. watch american history tv every weekend and find a full schedule on your program guide or watch online anytime at c-span.org/history. >> next week c-span digs into its archives to present donald trump's nominees in their own words, discussing policy, politics, and the relationship with the president-elect. our marathon continues monday with tulsi gabbard, and then we will hear from emmett oz and mr. trump's nominee for fbi director, kash patel. watch trump's nominees in their own words next week at 8:00 a.m. eastern on c-span two. >> for more than 45 years c-span has been your window into the workings of our democracy, offering live coverage of

congress, open forum: programs, and unfiltered access to the decision-makers that shape our nation. and we have done it all without essence of god -- without assent of government funding. c-span exists for you, and your support helps keep our mission alive as we close out the year. we are asking you to stand with us. your gift, no matter the size, goes 100% toward supporting c-span's work, helping ensure that in-depth and independent coverage continues to thrive in an era where it is needed more than ever. visit c-span.org/donate or scan the code on your screen to make your tax-deductible contribution today. together we can ensure that c-span remains a trusted resource for you and future generations. >> "washington journal" continues. host: welcome back.

we are joined now by frank buckley, the author of "the roots of liberalism: what faithful knights and the little match girl taught us about civil virtue." as part of our holiday authors series. welcome to "washington journal." guest: thank you for having me. host: the title of your book, can you define liberalism? guest: i don't think i can. i am an academic, and i get really tired of theories. so, i started to look at liberalism because that is kind of the american tradition. and what i discovered first of all was that, you know, definitions, theories were not going to cut it. but what i had to do instead was look at stories in our culture, people in our culture, and that told me what i was looking for. so, it was a matter of instinctively reacting to things

that we regard in our culture as noble, as uplifting as liberal, in short. host: let's talk about the sub-title. who were the faithful knights and why the little match girl? guest: the point is, those stories take it to weird places. so, one of them was, like, knights in shining armor, ok? and i will tell you a little story. after the first gulf war colin powell was called to testify before congress and he was asked, why didn't you go to baghdad? because we didn't the first time, right? and what powell said was, well, at that point the entire iraqi army was destroyed. there was nothing left. the way to baghdad was we could have gone there. it was just a highway of death. but he said, in the

circumstances doing that would have been on chivalrous and un-american. and so i thought, there is a tradition of chivalry that is built into the u.s. military, and, you know, it is military, you know, modern militaries. and that goes all the way back. it goes back to, for example, the story i looked at was the black night, ok? this is, like, 1370, and he has led an english raid in france, and he is surrounded by the french army. he has a small force and he defeats them all and captures the french king and all of the french nobles. and at night the captains are served dinner by the black prince. the son of edward the first. and he acts like a servant and says, you know, king john of france, you know, you should not be sad. you have won more on her today

than anybody else. he went out of his way to make his defeated enemy feel good about himself. that is basic to the idea of chivalry. the idea is magnanimity. that is a proto-version of the geneva convention. host: we have an excerpt from your book. can you read this portion which gets to the idea of chivalry? guest: the first one? ok. liberalism is not an abstract theory but a tradition of customs embedded in our culture. code of chivalry and are taught thuce thisgh the stories of hans christian anderson and the novels of charles dickens, kindness became a liberal virtue. the republican virtue of the founders can be traced back to 12 centrally -- 12th-century merchants. that was my idea. it is not a grand theory. virtues are not something you

define as a theory. that which is roughly noble in our culture is found not in theories but in all of those stories and people in our culture. your prior program was on curing the political wounds in our society. i thought, what better way would there be to do that then for all of us to recognize we are part of that tradition? that symbolizes us and teaches us how to behave to people on the others. -- other side. host: you discussed the confusion around the meaning of liberalism. what do you mean by that? guest: well, it is a term which is hijacked by partisans left and right, and i was looking for a kind of liberalism that is neither left or right, embraces both. i have a few years on me.

more than you. i go back to coonskin caps and the eisenhower era. i remember the time when everybody was a liberal and we disagreed about certain things, but they were technical things. and reasonable people work and bring it -- were permitted to differ. that, it seems to me, had been missing in recent years. when i wrote the book i wrote it against the grain. i wrote it at a time when a lot of people seemed to be giving up on the idea of liberalism right and left. that, i thought, was dangerous. i thought the way to heal our political wounds would be for us to recognize that which we have in common, which is our liberal tradition. host: you have mentioned the term has been hijacked by partisans. what would you use to distinguish liberalism from progressivism, from another term that is very popular, oak --

wokeism. guest: i don't like to get hung up on terms. in part because i think it is boring. there is a lot of that going on. we don't need more of that. so, i am in favor of progress and in favor of a whole bunch of things that, you know, so on. i don't see anything particularly wrong with that. everything taken to the stream becomes evil. we don't want to do that. but with a spirit of moderation we could agree on most things. so, i'm not going to get hung up on labels, particularly, except that i realized, wait a minute, these guys are not liberal. and let's try to get back to that. host: who are these guys? guest: these guys. you are pressing me.

that is your job. well, there is an intolerant strain particularly in recent years, i thought, on the left. people who were self-satisfied, censorious, and all of that. all of these things they use recuse the right of being. and they had become that themselves. so, let's get away from that. as for people on the right who wanted to give up on liberalism, maybe they should realize that if they are acting to the censorious mess on the left, they are asserting the primacy of liberal values. they are saying, you guys are a liberal. ok, that means you like liberalism. in america there is a liberal tradition. there is not a conservative tradition, there is a liberal tradition. it goes back to the founders.

it goes back to the declaration of independence. it goes back to speeches by abraham lincoln. that is what unites us. that is what makes us americans. to the extent you don't believe that you are less an american. host: would you mind reading that next absurd -- excerpt from your bk? guest: you are putting me to work. the desire of officials to promote the public good. the antony of civic virtue is public corruption. a subset of society where it is just to do so, for exame alleviate poverty. the vor official who favors a part of society is corrupt and reveals himself to be illiberal. he is, in the public realm, like the faithless employee in the private realm who steals from his employer -- i guess i'm making a point about something that is special about liberalism. that is the idea of a universal ethic mariah?

the alternative to that is tribalism. that is not even a moral theory, right? to count as a moral theory it seems to me you have to say something like, everybody counsels one, nobody counts as more than one. taking a look at the common good i think we have to pay particular attention to people who were left behind, but we have to take everybody into account. host: let's place your book into the context of the presidential election. your views on president-elect trump and his promise to make america great again, and the context of this discussion around liberalism. guest: i don't think there is anything particularly liberal about the desire to make a country great. in fact, it can be the source of liberalism.

-- of liberalism -- the liberalism illiberalism. historically it has been. there is another side to our liberal tradition. historically our tradition of equality in the declaration, which is liberal, and the idea there is that if you are liberal you should be feeling a sense of brotherhood. at least, to everybody else in your society and nation. there is a kind of liberal nationalism where you look at people left behind and you say, this has got to be fixed. if you see someone who desperately needs help of one kind or another you can say it is not just that that should happen, we should try to fix that. but you will get more mileage politically and morally, i

think, if you want to say, it is not just that an american should live like that. host: let's listen to a bit of president-elect trump's election night victory speech. >> we are going to make our country better than it ever has been. many people have told me that god spared my life for reason. and that reason was to save our country and to restore america to greatness. and now we are going to fulfill that mission together. we are going to fulfill that mission. task before us will not be easy, but i will bring every ounce of energy, spirit, and fight that i have in my soul to the job you have entrusted to me. this is a great job. there is no job like this. this is the most important job in the world.

just as i did in my first term, we had a great first term, my great, great first term. i will govern by a simple motto. promises made, promises cap. -- promises cap. -- kept. i'm asking every citizen across our land to join me in this righteous endeavor. that is what it is. it is time to put the divisions of the past four years behind us. it is time to unite, and we are going to try. we are going to try. we have to try, and it's going to happen. success will bring us together. i have seen that. i have seen that. i saw that in the first term, when we became more and more successful people started coming together. success is going to bring us together and we are going to

start by putting america first. have to put our country first for a period of time. we have to face it, because together we can truly make america great again for all americans. host: now, i would like to contrast that speech for you with a portion of vice president harris' concession speech last month where she advised her supporters not to despair, especially the folks who think the nation is entering a dark time. let's listen to that and i would like to get your thoughts. vice pres. harris: you have the capacity to do extraordinary good in the world. and so, to everyone who is watching, not despair. this is not a time to throw up our hands. this is the time to roll up our sleeves. [applause] this is the time to organize, to mobilize, and stay engaged.

for the sake of freedom and justice. and the future we all know we can build together. look, many of you know i started out as a prosecutor. and throughout my career i saw people at some of the worst times in their lives. people who had suffered a great harm and great pain. and yet, found within themselves the strength and the courage and the resolve to take the stand. to take a stand. to fight for justice. to fight for themselves. to fight for others. so, let their courage be our inspiration. let their determination be our charge. and i will close with this.

there is an adage a historian once called a law of history. true of every society across the ages. the adage is, only when it is dark enough can you see the stars. i know many people feel like we are entering a dark time. but for the benefit of us all i hope that is not the case. but here is the thing. america, if it is, let us fill the sky with the light of a brilliant, brilliant billions of stars. [applause] the light of optimism. of faith. of truth. and service. host: now, i know that traditionally, especially in the

political narrative we have, people would associate trump is saying with conservatism and what harris was saying with liberalism. if we apply your framework, where did those speeches fit? guest: i did not see either of them being representative of one thing or another. these are simply partisan politicians, period. you know, when i went through my rambling tour of our history, one thing that struck out was something called the investiture crisis it was 800 years ago. the idea was, that was the single moment when there was a separation of church and state. right? and i'm on the side of that separation, in the sense that i want to say it is important to have something other than politics to guide your life. one of our problems, it seems to me, has been the relative disappearance of religion as a

way of going through life and reflecting upon your place in the world, and your conduct. apart from politics. so, that is what you just put on the screen does not define me one way or another. let me say one thing on the subject of -- this is trump now, and prosperity. liberalism is on the side of prosperity, i think. liberalism has meant free markets and the like. it has meant the abolition of slavery. it has meant the abolition of things that prevent people from bargaining with one another and getting ahead. and there are two aspects to prosperity that are important. the first is that when people are prosperous they are making people -- they are making each other better off. and that is a good thing. the second thing about a prosperous society is, a welfare system is the kind of luxury

good for a prosperous society. if you want to have a decent welfare state want to have a rich society, right? so, you have to be on the side of prosperity yourself. that, therefore, should be something that unites us. host: we are ready to take your questions for mr. buckley on his book and the topic of liberalism more generally. our number for republicans, (202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-8000. and independents, (202) 748-8002 . we are going to start with lou in highland park, illinois on our line for democrats. caller: good morning, mr. buckley. i'm wondering if you could be totally and 100% specific when you discuss liberalism, as far as money, taxes, education, health care. i think a lot of people in our

country think in terms of how much we have to give one side and take from the other. i would like you to maybe expound on some of that. guest: well, one thing you are not going to get for me -- i'm sorry -- is 100% precision. you realize that is impossible. i think that what one tries to do is have a society which both is prosperous and which can afford the kind of social programs you are describing. so, there is a balancing that goes on here. veer too much on one side, for example there was a thought four years back we could spend as much money as we wanted and we would not have such a thing as inflation with the benefit of history that has been disproven. so, we work our way merc away through all of clearer guidance

as to where we are going, but with a vague goal at the end of it all. and we don't get better than that, i don't think. host: our caller mentioned the role of money in politics a bit. i want to direct your attention to an article in the atlantic by franklin ford about what is referred to as the unique danger of a trumpist oligarchy. a cabal would entangle themse with in the administration, and form a doublel threat. the trump oligarchy that is taking shape is far different from the post-soviet strain. what makes it distinct is that trump is entering into a partnership with the most powerful technologists in the worl but the core problem of oligar the same. the symbiotic relationship n a corrupt leader and business elite alwaysntails the trading of favors. the regime does the bidding of the billionaires, and in turn

the billionaires do the bidding of the regime. power grows ever more concentrated as the owners and corrupt leaders nsre to protecthr mutual hold on it. in short order this arrangement has the potential to deliver a double blow to the american system. it could undermine capitalism and the road democracy, all at once. guest: that is what happened immediately, isn't it? the day after the inauguration it is all over. i think the thing about pundits you have to realize is, number one, they tend to be partisan, and number two, the end of the world is happening. buzzwords meant to inflame his constituents, i suppose. right? you have to mention russia somehow, you know? and you have to talk about dark money. and you have to talk about the threat to democracy. and you put it all together and

you have a kind of word salad which roughly represents pretty much everything everybody on the left has said in the last eight years or so. forgive me, but, you know, i'm going to wait and see what happens. i'm skeptical of the doomsayers. i am sympathetic to the people that talk about money in politics, although i think we should recognize before we start talking about the evils of dark money, for example, you know, the democrats vastly outspent the republicans in the last election in terms of dark money. it is not the case that anybody has moral standing here to complain. the pretension of moral standing, you know, this near on the lips of people that tell you they are pure and you are not, i have kind of had enough of that. so, yeah, i would like to see --

i am not a fan of american campaign finance laws. what has happened, i mean, this is a legal question we are not going to get into, but there is kind of a trade-off here between corruption and liberty. we have taken the stand in favor of liberty, and we are going to accept a certain amount of corruption. so, i wish it were otherwise, but then that is just the way it is. host: let's hear from henry in michigan on our line for democrats. good morning, henry. caller: good morning. mr. buckley, i think, is kind of a little bit of a wolf in sheep's clothing. if you look at his last name, it is buckley. guest: that will do it. caller: that tells us a little about him. host: no, it doesn't. what is your question, henry? caller: i digress. i would like to do a simple exercise. and tried to distill this a

little more, mr. buckley. i'm going to mention some phrases, little words or phrases from the constitution of the united states. i want you to tell me if that word or phrase comports mostly with a democratic side or republican side. we don't have to have any kind of discussion during just tell me if this comports more with the democratic side or the republican side. guest: you want a yes or no? caller: i want democratic or republican. guest: does that define your world? caller: we the people, in order to form a more perfect union. host: henry, can you maybe give us the direct point you are trying to make, or a specific question? i understand the exercise you want him to go through, but what are you trying to share, what is your perspective here? guest: henry, if i could answer

your, the more perfect union was a reference to the articles of confederation of 1781. caller: can i speak? i only get 30 days to call and most of the time i cannot even get in. you have a guy from the u.k. that gets in every other day. i'm just trying to show the difference between liberals and "conservatives," or confederates. i consider myself a liberal. i was raised to respect all people. to love as many people as i can, possibly, through religious beliefs that i have. you made me digress from what i was trying to do. all men are created equal. does that comport more with democrats or republicans? guest: i would like to thank both, actually, but i don't

disagree with the sentiment. caller: you say both. all right. host: we are not going to go line by line, henry. i want you to make your larger point if you have another and then we are going to go to some other callers. caller: let me make this last point. mr. buckley mentioned campaign-finance rules, and you read that beautiful passage from the article about oligarchs and the evils of money in politics. our judicial system is broken. executive branch is broken. and our legislative branch is broken. because of money in politics, because of this coming oligarchy, because of -- because the united states has elected a criminal who is a rich man, who has rich people behind him, and

this is not liberalism. this is not conservatism. this is pure evil. host: i think we have got your idea. did you have any response? guest: maybe i am thick here, but maybe it means you don't like trump. i'm not going to get into the raw politics of it all. but it seems to me that besides democrats and republicans there is something else going on here. and that is the american voter. i think generally the american voter gets it right. if i go through elections in the last century mostly it turned out ok, right? when people, you know, veer off too much, there is a correction administered by the voters.

so, i see the voters as the repository of liberal virtues in all of this. they are third-party. i will put my faith in them. host: brian is in orange, massachusetts on our line for independence. -- independents. caller: i think your book is very interesting, but does your book differentiate between modern liberalism, like the recent election, and liberalism as thought in the 1930's? what i have noticed is a huge change in the democratic party. i am a former democrat turned independent. i voted for trump in the last election. the democratic party should go back to the values of fdr and not the values of woke, transgender, and etc. i would like to know your thoughts on that. host: before you give your thoughts would you mind reading that last excerpt from your guest: if there is any content

to the word they decry prejudice but perpetuate stereotypes about white males and evang christians. they tell us that you have to become racist to o racism. theyne themselves standing up to josephthy, but practice mccarthyism when they call millions of republicans fascist and demand that they be silenced. they tell us they value free spch but deny it to conservative speakers on college campuses. mario savo would have been outraged by all of that. ryan, i agree with you totally. i hanker for an earlier time. i thought fdr was great. i like harry truman. i liked jfk. i liked dwight eisenhower. i guess i am old enough to hanker back to an age where there were differences, but they were not differences that made

people hate each other. so, you know, i think what happened in the last election was, the american voters delivered a bit of a corrective to the democratic party. and my hope is that they learn and adjust accordingly. because if they don't we may be looking at a long, long period of a republican-dominant government. and that is not healthy. host: let's go to benjamin in huntsville, alabama on our line for independents. good morning, benjamin. caller: good morning. i just want to make a statement during inherent in the very definition of liberalism are seeds of conflict. the ideas of progressivism, individualism, free-market economics, and christian theology are all used in the

definition of liberalism, and they do not harmonize with each other. this definition limits the possibility for the conceptualization of a clearer and more expansive and comprehensive view of what liberalism is and how it should be manifest. the execution of the ideas expressed in the definition of liberalism cannot peacefully coexist can you comment on this idea? guest: well, they can coexist peacefully. i don't think liberalism -- you know, the opposite of liberalism , it seems to me, is a state which mandates a particular kind of policy from which you cannot dissent. what is basic to liberalism is continuing discussion about how we get to where we want to go. liberals might have a broad

agreement about goals, but as to the means to get there there is plenty of room for disagreement. so, i think here it is important to recognize one of the things liberalism requires is tolerance for the other side and a willingness to learn. and a measure of uncertainty and self-doubt about your own righteousness and your own knowledge and your own ideas. there was this great moment in the framers convention, right at the end. benjamin franklin is there, and franklin wants a constitution. and this is the last day. and there are some people who are not going to sign the document. what franklin says is, essentially,, you know, have some self-doubt about your own righteousness. about your own clarity, your own moral clarity, right?

admit that you might possibly be wrong, and other people might be right. and if you do that you will sign the document. i'd like that. that was an element of liberalism. host: let's hear from david in memphis, tennessee on our line for democrats. good morning, david. caller: hi. good morning. esther buckley, i think you are muddying the waters, and that disturbs me. i would have to read your book to confirm it, but my understanding is that any word that ends in ism, means it has an over-emphasis. communism is an over-emphasis on the collective. capitalism is an over-emphasis on the expectation of capital. you have some theory that i also liked. well, truman and kennedy were nationalists and militarism

characterized their budget plans. what they were not isolationists, to my knowledge, to the way i have read my history. and so, you have those terms i do believe can be attributed to trump and the magas -- isolationism and militarism -- and to harris and the democrats i think you have progressivism and liberalism. but i think you have muddied the waters by not determining that anything that ends in ism is an over-emphasis. you are trying to deemphasize that which is being over-emphasize. what do you think? guest: david, i loved your beginning, but then the word "but be a code hate it went -- but." i hate it when people do that.

you are largely right, but how about the word moralism? do you have a problem with that? i don't think so. so, it is not the ism, but things that go before it. your point is, i think, however, valid. the point is, you take anything and you push it too far and it goes off the rails. i know think that is true. one of the complaints people on the right have made about liberalism is, they identify it with the idea that anything anybody does is ok, right? which is destructive of morals completely. that would be an example of taking liberalism too far. i think if one wants to step back and admit that implicit in liberalism is the ability to question liberalism itself. host: while we are talking about isms, you have discussed in your book the idea of populism,

right? and earlier this month outgoing democratic senator sharad brown from ohio, who is well-known for his liberal views, delivered his farewell address to the senate. he served 14 years in the house, followed by 18 in the senate. was defeated in november. here he discusses the idea of populism and what it means to him. then i would like to get your response. >> i have always looked at things a little differently. to me politics is not left or right were liberal and conservative, it is really about whose side you are on. in whom you are willing -- it is about whom you are willing to fight for. whom you are willing to step -- to stand up to. too populism lifts up all people. true populism does not play to raise and division. true population is about the dignity of work. putting workers at the center of all we should be doing. we need -- whether you swipe a

badge or punch a clock, or the you are going to school or raising kids, matter who you are, no matter where you live, matter what kind of work you do your work has dignity. it ought to pay off for you and your family. we have that in common. with all of the differences we have, we have work in common. for too many people in ohio and around the country hard work has not paid off. today far too many workers do not see a path to the middle class to matter how hard they work. we know this. we should be challenging this. for half a century the stock market soared, executive compensation has exploded, corporate profits have risen dramatically. her productivity has increased, workers' wages have been comparatively flat and costs keep going up. until we solve the fundamental problem, until hard work is valued, our work in this body, my work as a private citizen

come january, that work is unfinished. if you want to know why so many workers think the system is rigged against them, just look at what happened in east texas. to little fanfare as single judge appointed by president trump at the behest of the texas chamber of commerce struck down a labor department rule which guaranteed overtime for workers making $35,000 or $40,000 a year. that ought to be a principal. if you put in extra hours you ought to get extra pay. one judge, one decision, 4 million workers lost their overtime. one judge, one decision, 4 million workers lost their overtime. that is why we make this fight. guest: i agree with everything senator brown said, with the exception of that last bit about that judge in texas, because i didn't follow that, frankly. i don't know what the issues are. i only have one minor quibble about the work populism. i don't like it because of its

historical associations in this country with a lot of nasty people. you know, 120 years ago. host: can you elaborate for folks who do not -- who do not know? guest: yeah. jim crow laws were associated with the populist movement back then. yeah, i have problems with that. host: with the modern interpretation? guest: oh, gosh. i don't know what the word means apart from that. there are plenty of terms in american politics which almost seemed to be devoid of content. when you look carefully at them. that may be them. host: gina is in alexandria, virginia on our line for democrats. good morning, gina. caller: good morning, kimberly and mr. buckley. i'm trying to learn about your book to see if i want to purchase it or not, but however i would just like to know, america has some kind of problem

with the muslim culture, which it surprises me that people are not more curious because the ottoman empire lasted over 600 years. i don't believe america's culture is going to get to that. because they were inclusive. they pulled in christians, they pulled in jews, and it seemed like they were just as liberal as they were conservative. and i don't see americo working hard enough or being curious enough to last that long. even the chinese culture has led thousands and thousands of years, and it seems like the rest of the world has been watching america, but once they saw us doing it to ourselves we are just a joke now. you know, it is all about money.

once citizens united got in there. we are a couple. host: you point out other historical traditions around chivalry and rules. is that what you are asking him about? caller: i'm asking him, does he think america is going to last as long as some of the other inclusive cultures that bring people in, rather than separating people? guest: i don't make those kinds of predictions, actually, gina. but on the subject of immigration, i am an immigrant, ok? i came here from canada. i became a citizen 10 years ago. so, i am necessarily on the side of immigration. although the thing about immigrants is, once we get in we want to pull up the ladder. that's it, no more. there was a speech abraham lincoln gave in 1858 which i

really like. was part of the lincoln-douglas debates. it was a july 4 speech, given around july 4. and he said, all honor to the founders of the country and he said, there are some people in this hall who are descendants, flesh of the flesh of the people in the revolution, you know? but then they said, there are other people here in this room who were not, right? and they have names like helmut or jean-pierre, you know? their ancestors were not here in 1776. it doesn't matter, because what makes you an american is a kind of electric cord that binds you to the principles of the founders. to the words of the declaration. as long as you subscribe to that you are an american. that is what i believe. host: what about gina's question

related to some of the other historical system that had kind of systems similar to the chivalry you talk about from medieval europe? going back to the ottoman empire, which overlapped with some of those systems and even she mentioned ancient china, which also had its own rules around warfare and things like that? did you compare that at all as you were doing the research for this book? guest: no, this was hard enough. you want me to do more work? no way. i looked at stories i thought would be familiar to readers. fairytales, some of them. whatever. episodes from history that are familiar to us because they are part of our tradition. and i wanted to say liberalism arose from that tradition. host: we did not actually get to your story of the little match girl and why that was relevant. guest: let me tell that story. it is a story by hans christian andersen and it is written at a time when europe is becoming, in

this case denmark, really wealthy. but at the same time you are seeing pockets of great poverty. the contrast between the great wealth and poverty produces something novel. which is an instinct of kindness. as told by hans christian otterson in this story about a girl, penniless, who survives by selling matches. she is outside of westerhout. she sees everybody eating. it is christmas time, they are having these great meals and she is starving and out in the cold, and she likes a match to look inside. and to warm herself. and then she lights all of her matches. she freezes to death. right? impossible, i think, to read that story or have that story read without being moved and

recognizing a duty to take care of people not doing so well in your society. that is part of liberalism too. host: michael is in gainesville, florida on our line for republicans. good morning. caller: yes, hello. two quick questions and two statements of fact. what is your opinion on prosperity and trickle-down? and, what is your idea on -- position on scientific racism two things i think you might be missing that influences your answers to those two is, first, either competition or evolution optimize. that is a scientific fact. and also, lawyers, which you teach in a law school, truth is what you can convince a jury of. i think you are teaching how many of your students have become politicians. because those lawyers then pursue that as truth is whatever

you can con the public into. that is the source of our issues and difficulties, many of them right now. host: before we get mr. buckley to respond i want to make sure we understand what you in by scientific racism. caller: yes, it is being taught in florida. there is less sure -- there is lectures going around. when mr. buckley spoke of his concerns about -- and he use the word censorship and referred to wokeness. what he is talking about is this gentleman being able to speak freely and those students at schools who pay money do not want people speaking untruths. for example, if you want to talk about how evolution shows that white people are superior, that is not even how evolution works, and it is factually untrue. we don't teach evolution correctly in our textbooks because we put it in the back, the parts that talk about competition. host: right, ok.

so, go ahead. guest: i think scientific racism is an up -- is an oxymoron. like military music. the things do not go together. i also coming you know, am a believer in what one can get out of evolutionary theories. i think that is important and i don't disagree with that in any way. as to my teaching politicians, no, i teach people how to take security interests in personal property. host: all right. robert is in brooklyn, new york on our line for republicans. good morning. caller: good morning. the way you use your words, i think the problem is the english language.

obamacare was done with the concept of doing good. we may have liars and dark money in politics. hundreds of millions of people whose job because they decide to go private with insurance. that is one. the second part is foreign money. the israeli government could payoff politicians and their suits and jackets, and they are anti-semitic. i'm trying to figure out, what do you think about people using the english language to justify the concept of what they're doing? guest: no, as somebody who wrote good stuff on that was george orwell, on the way in which the english language is used in such a way not to promote more clarity but to do just the opposite, to muddy things up. we talked about that in the last

hour. we have talked about how terms get thrown out and they have a lot of baggage attached to them. and sometimes a word is tossed out and they try to slip in a lot of baggage that does not belong. i agree with you. i don't want to respond about the particular political points you have made, ok? host: donna is in texas on our line for independence. good morning, donna. caller: yes, i'm here to talk about liberalism. we talk about advocating the freedom of the individual and want to talk about how as an individual, like myself, america needs to see about people with disabilities. people with mental health issues. how can we really exercise liberalism, freedoms of the people, if we are not reaching

out to all of the people? black people? all races? all mental health? all disabilities? and i also think about how trump and elon musk want to cut out disability and ssdi for 2025. and i'm saying, that is cutting out liberalism. that is cutting out freedom of the people. host: this gets at the point you are making more about the role of, sort of, an inclusive society and the concept of liberalism. guest: yeah. i agree with don out that in a liberal state you don't want to have people left hind. you are looking for the common good. think of it in terms of a family, right? you know, if you are the father or mother of the family you want all of your kids to do well and maybe you pay particular attention to a child who needs

some extra help, right? you don't do that ignoring all of the other children. you try and -- you try in some murky way to make it all add up in a way that promotes the common good. there is no definition of that, right? and people are permitted to disagree. but i think, you know, you start with believing in a universal moral code where everybody counts. host: john is in charleston, south carolina on our line for independents. good morning, john. caller: yes sir. i do know the name buckley, from way back. i am a 70-year-old guy and everything. i'm not sure if you are family or not, but i do know that you are a professor at this khalil school. now, that is a really interesting guy to me. host: just to help folks

understand what he means, mr. buckley is a professor at this khalil law school at george mason university. ahead, john. what is your question? caller: my question with scalia, was a person that really believed that, myself being american, black, he thought we would do better if, you know, we were in the schools we were traditionally in years and years ago. and everything. and he might have been right on something with that, because we give up a lot when we integrated schools. host: john, we are just about out of time for this segment. i understand you are talking about justice scalia's position on integration in public schools, but did you have a question specifically for mr. buckley today?

caller: yes. i would like his opinion on that. host: ok. guest: on segregated schools? i'm against it. host: let's go to roland in maryland on our line for democrats. good morning, roland. caller: thanks for taking my call. he said the conservative for the republicans associates, you know, [indiscernible] i got mine, you get yours, you know? it is all about, you know, elections, campaigns was all about gas prices, grocery prices. and i'm pretty sure there is not much -- you know, trump is going to do about it. and i'm trying to understand, sometimes it is all about

exclusion and racism with being conservative. because if you look at it, what exactly -- west virginia voted almost 80%, 90% for trump. host: roland because we are just about out of time i want to make sure i understand your point clearly. you asking mr. buckley about the association of conservatism with some of these things you are talking about? caller: yes. but i feel like some of these people, you know, they just say they are conservative, but if you dig down, if you dig deep down, it is always about, you know, exclusion. host: i think we have your idea. i'm going to let mr. buckley respond. guest: oh, you know something? like i mentioned before, i go back a ways, so rather than fixate on current politics i tend to see myself as an

old-fashioned eisenhower republican. you know, or maybe a jfk democrat. i don't know. i think the point of my book was not to talk so much about where we are today, but where we came from. and to try to cure those things which divide us by reference to those things we hold in common in our culture. host: frank buckley is the author of "the roots of liberalism: what faithful knights and the little match girl taught us about civil virtue." thank you very much for your time. guest: thank you for having me. host: we are going to be right back after this, with some open forum. our phone lines are going to be on your screen and you can call in. we will be ready to hear your thoughts and opinions on the political news of the day. we will be right back. ♪ ♪

>> american history tv, exploring the people and events that tell the american story. this weekend, an author with his book "the great abolitionist" discussing the career and life of abolitionist and politician charles sumner who represented massachusetts in the u.s. senate in 1851 until his death in 1874. author elizabeth reese with her book "marquis the lafayette returns" recounting the 1824-1825 took that he took -- trip that he took through the young united states after he returned after the revolutionary war. the lead up to inauguration day. american history tv looks back at famous inaugural speeches. this weekend, speeches by franklin roosevelt in 1933, harry truman's 1949 address, and

dwight eisenhower's 19 53 address. exploring the american story. watch american history tv every weekend and find a full scdu on your program guide, or watch online anytime at c-span.org /history. >> witness democracy in action with c-span. experience history as it unfolds with c-span's live coverage this january as republicans take control of both chambers of congress and a new chapter begins with the swearing in of the 47th president of the united states. friday, january 3, don't miss the opening day of the 119 congress, watch the election of the house speaker, the swearing in of new members of congress and the senate, and a first day of leadership for john thune as the new senate majority leader. monday, january 6, live from the house chamber, witness vice

president kamala harris certified of the electoral about where the historic session will confirm donald trump as the winner of the 2024 presidential election. on january 20, tune in for the live all day coverage of the presidential inauguration as donald trump takes the oath of office, becoming the 47th president of the united states. stay with c-span through january for a comprehensive, live, unfiltered coverage of the congress and presidential nomination. c-span, democracy unfiltered created by cable. >> washington journal continues. host: welcome back. we are in open forum ready to take your calls and thoughts on the news of the day or week. our line for republicans is, (202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-8000. independents, (202) 748-8002. before we get to your calls, couple of headlines that we are following.

domestically, as is reported in the washington post, conflict over work visas. tests trump's coalition. far-right activists clashed online with billionaire elon musk and supporters of president elect donald trump over the need for skilled worker immigration programs that have long-been a lifeblood for silicon valley signifying a risk between trump's core nationalist space and technology executives that have come to support him. the fight that spilled into public view over the holiday week could preview a wedge within trump's coalition over how to execute immigration policy and issued an animated trump white house campaign. the controversy spread over x after laurel number on monday criticized trump's choice to name a technology on for newer born in india a senior policy advisor on artificial intelligence she pointed to his

previous support for removing some caps on green cards and easing the ability of skilled foreign workers to come to the united states. the policy is in direct opposition to trump's agenda, lower luma road. the critique sparked a broader debate about immigration and the tech industry which relies heavily on a visa program that allows foreigners with technical skills to work in the united states for up to six years under h-1b nonimmigrant status. moving over to international news, there is more updates on the plane crash in kazakhstan and the fact that the united states has attributed some responsibility for that to russia. this is the latest from the new york times. putin apologizes, but stopped short of taking responsibility for kazakhstan crash. vladimir putin told the azerbaijan leader in a phone call that the tragic accident took place in russian airspace.

president vladimir putin of russia saturday apologized for the crash of an azerbaijan airlines plane this past week breaking the kremlin's three-day silence on the accident that claimed the lives of 38 people. he didn't explicitly acknowledge russia's responsibility for the crash. the kremlin said that mr. putin offered his apologies for the crash in a phone call to his azerbaijani cart apart -- counterpart. he told him that the tragic incident took lace in russian airspace. the phone call was initiated the russian leader, the kremlin said. starting with bernard in dallas-texas -- in dallas, texas. caller: this country has always had a bogeyman. it was the blacks, the chinese, the mexicans. i mean, the bogeyman. white people have no reason to

be poor in the country that has been running things for 300 years. if you are poor, it is your fault. host: oklahoma on the line for independents. good morning, vincent. caller: i am a 72-year-old man. when i was able to register to vote, i couldn't wait to vote. by the 1980's or so, i quit voting because i was so tired of the politician saying one thing and getting elected and then doing whatever their backers wanted them to do. i'm not against any of trump's nominees, because i am sick and tired of politicians. i voted for trump because he is a businessman, not because of anything else. i'm talking about the first time. i was so sick and tired of politicians, i actually began

voting again, registered and began voting again to vote against hillary. not because she was a woman but because she was a politician and i wanted to see what a businessman can do. i want to see with these businessmen can do that trump is nominating. i don't care how much money they have or what their past is. i just like the idea of having businessmen taking care of our country instead of these sub -- yeah. absorbed politicians that think they will help our country but they are only after themselves. host: debbie in virginia on the line for republicans. good morning. caller: good morning to you. how are you? host: doing well, thank you. caller: i have been sitting back, watching and listening. i think that the american people, when it comes to our government, we've taken a lot away from them through the

years. i think i feel the american people in all should give our government a good spanking. thank you very much. host: ok. stephen in kingsford, michigan on the line for democrats. good morning. caller: hello. i have been watching c-span for -- i don't know how long. since 1980. i primarily watched c-span2. seeing how this is an open forum, c-span2 has changed their format of showing a stage or what was on c-span.org while there is a roll call vote in the senate. i have a widescreen tv and i can't see and i can't hear. i like to hear what they are saying and i like to see what they are doing when they are --

what they are chatting about when there is a roll call vote. i wish c-span would change that format. i thank you very much. you are a wonderful network, both of you. i thank you very much, ma'am. host: david in independence, louisiana on the line for independents. good morning. caller: good mrs. adams. my name is david. we call our house out here camp david. trust me, i am the senior fellow here at camp david. i want to talk about two things really quick. the mega millions. last night another million are in california won. it is unbelievable. it's like, no one has ever won in louisiana. i don't see how that's possible. trump talked about no taxes on tips, well no tax on lotto winnings. like the 51st state of canada, i hear that they have a little

style and class and let their people keep the money. what else can you do with it but spend it? they're going to get it back anyway. if it is mathematical odds, they tell you the odds of winning, but what are the odds of no one winning 10 times in a row? it seems like it would be higher. the next thing is concerning daylight savings. all my life, i don't think i've ever met a person that is for daylight savings, yet we have it forced on us. there must be a real good reason that it keeps us sleepy or something, i don't know. maybe they should just split the difference. 30 minutes. then leave the clock alone. leave it alone. david was referring to the mega millions jackpot, which nbc news reported here the winning ticket for one -- for $1.22

billion was sold in california. the jackpot on friday was the fifth largest, surpassing the $1.28 million jackpot from march that was claimed on monday. a looking person in california. lawrence in st. paul, minnesota. good morning. caller: first, you do a wonderful job. i appreciate how you marched into your position. you were talking about ways to make a difference. i will give to suggestions. -- two suggestions. first, if you watch television, and a lot of people use television to communicate. most television programs are geared towards talking at people and not engaging in dialogues. i think, stop the drama and learn to talk to people and not at people. if you are sitting with someone or a group and you want to figure out how you can work towards common ground, create

three lists. federal, state, local. write down, what do you see is the top roles or priorities for each of those branches. compare notes in terms of what people's perspectives are in terms of what is the role of government. then don't work on what your differences are, but take those lists and try to determine where there is common ground. what is missing is discussions -- what we have our discussions on the extremes and not discussions on where we have common ground. i will hang up and listen to the rest of the program. i truly appreciate your professionalism. host: thank you for your comments. he was talking about ideas to help bridge the partisan divide in washington. c-span spoke with some retiring members of congress from both parties about what they think would actually make washington work better.

here are some of their answers. [video clip] >> i just think there ought to be a notion of people ought to treat others the way they want to be treated. i want when a new congress sets up the rules, i want the old congress to set up the rules before they know who's going to be in charge. i think there are opportunities for us to have a more humane schedule. i would put my foot down in terms of people -- i don't know how you do this by rules, but they have people hired just to be political flax and not do actual policy work. part of that can come from the top, having legislative leadership in both parties taking a firmer line about performance. in individual members of congress not supporting people for leadership positions who are not providing the leadership

that we think needs to happen. it's easy for a geezer with one foot out the door to pontificate. i know this is hard. politics is serious and the stakes are high, particularly in the time of trump, but i think there is more we could do to humanize it. i think there is more work that rank and file members can do to enforce norms that are more civilized. >> we need to make it ok for members to have their families here with them in d.c. families serve together. families serve together. members of congress get elected. their spouse often is the one staying at home.

on a random tuesday night getting yelled that in the grocery store because their spouse voted one way or another. if you had families here, you then see the human element that is so missing from our current dialogue and debate. of understanding when you are dropping your kids off at daycare, and you have the courtesy of your friend telling you that your child just got sick on your shoulder, on the suit that you just put on, they know that you are a human being. missing that piece of it here means that we just come here, put our armor on and battle, and we don't know who is on the others. what are they concerned about? what are they fighting for? what is a little understanding of their life you might be connected with?

just because they are liberals versus conservatives doesn't mean there isn't a human element where you can work on something. something affecting your life that affected their life, or that your constituents have unified concerns or challenges. that's the piece that is missing. understanding humanity here, that we do have to work with individuals as they are and where they are to make this place function. >> i think campaign reform would help a lot. one reason why senators on thursday afternoon tend to scatter is senators are leaving for one of maybe two or three purposes or some combination. trying to get home, which is understandable. i like being home on a thursday night or friday night and being home for part of the weekend. a lot of it is senators are leaving to raise money. that is the reality of american politics today. that was not the case 25 to 30 years ago and dramatically so

before that not the case. we need campaign-finance reform. senate and house numbers don't have to spend as much of their time raising money that adversely impacts the senate. host: ideas from retiring members of congress on how to make washington better. ron is in san clemente, california on the line for republicans. good morning. caller: good morning, kimberly. thank you for taking the call. a couple of things. i am a reagan republican, now considered a splitter to the party. i have two issues. elections do have consequences. because of who we have chosen, i'm going to point out two issues that are extremely keen to the future of our country. the first one is the mass deportation concept. they say it is going to be started on january 20.

first of all, there won't be anybody to work on roofing or construction. there won't be anybody to do your gardening. there won't be anybody in this country to do -- take care of your children. you are going to put 500 thousand people in concentration camps while they are having this mass deportation go on, and it costs our country a fantastic amount. think about north carolina and how much it would cost to put on a roof if you had to use all white guys who came in daylight and worked until night for $125 or $150 per hour. it's crazy. number two, tariffs. tariffs are the worst thing possible for this country and he is going to put tariffs on

canada and mexico and china. when you do that, what you're going to do is raise the cost of all products in this country. what will happen is, i don't care from transportation, oil, the whole thing. it's not reasonable. the bottom line is, i'm hopeful that president musk will be able to tell prime minister trump not to do these things. i hope that we can work that out in the future. kimberly, thank you for taking my call. always a pleasure to have you. host: ron was referencing the difficulty in finding many types of workers in the event of mass in -- of mass deportations as president electron said he would do. there's a story of this in politico to this effect. these maga farmers could be ruined if trump follows through with mass deportations.

the california farm owners bet on president-elect donald trump and won. his campaign promise of mass deportations could ruin them. california farmers could soon enjoy bumper crops thanks to president-elect donald trump's pledge to lift water restrictions, but who will pick them if he follows through on his deportation threat? the country's largest agricultural constituency backed trump in november, bucking california's deep blue electorate over campaign promises to open the faucets and deliver more water to the parched, conservative-leaning central valley. now it is reckoning with an uncomfortable contradiction. trump campaign lawyer the mass deportation of undocumented immigrants who make up at least half of the state's agricultural workforce. eugene is in boston, massachusetts on the line for independents. caller: good morning. happy holidays to you. host: thank you. caller: and to all of the c-span listeners.

i just wanted to cover three quick things this morning. a couple of times a week people call in saying that the russian investigation was a hoax. none of your people ever call them on that. bob muller, a long time, lifelong republican came up with multiple digit charges of things, infractions, crimes that trump committed, but it was his newly-appointed attorney general billboard who said -- bill bohr that said a sitting president by his interpretation of the constitution can be charged with a crime. so, the russian investigation wasn't a hoax. it is just that he wasn't charged with a crime because billboard gave a history lesson. he's right, america was find it in crime. is it really surprising that a

criminal becomes president? america is a criminal nation. those people that call in about affirmative action, affirmative action never did anything to help black people. it didn't help black farmers, it didn't help black elders or carpenters, cap like brick masons. it didn't do anything for them. the biggest winner of affirmative action was white women. under affirmative action white women's salary skyrocketed, and they got huge positions that they were overlooked before. if white women are the biggest winners, guess who the second biggest winners are? that white men who marry them and date them. affirmative action was introduced as opposed to closing the wage gap. underneath it, it exploded the other way. get that stuff out here about affirmative action. when affirmative action was ended, you didn't see black folks protesting because they

know that it never helped them. nobody plays the victim role as well as white folks. the only difference is, white people play the victim while they are mass murdering, mass raping -- host: hubert is in indiantown, florida on the line for democrats. good morning, hubert. caller: good morning. two things i want to say. number one, there is no such thing as a rich -- an honest rich man. two, the trickle down economy, trickle-down economics never worked. number three, the american people need to understand that this country is built on with the previous caller said about criminals. it was founded by criminals and established by criminals. that's all i got to say. host: jackson, mississippi on the line for independents --

excuse me, jackson, michigan on the line for independents. good morning, mustapha. caller: thank you for that correction. i also believe you're doing a wonderful job. happy new year. even though you cut off a previous foundational black caller on the segment of the political divide, i will try to articulate her point quickly. as a proud u.s. army veteran and proud foundational black american who built this country, i assert there has always been a political divide stemming mostly from anti-black racism. with the influx of legal immigrants who are more anti-black racist than the dominant society, the political divide will continue based on anti-black racism. lastly, if you will allow me, i

would implore you and your listeners to please stop referring to foundational black americans as african-american. it helps -- we are not from generic africans. furthermore, an ethnic genesis to has taken place with us. thank you for allowing me to voice my opinion. host: gary in indianola, mississippi on the line for democrats. good morning. caller: good morning. i'm a military veteran. i'm trying to find out, how is it that you can be in the military and have a felony, but you can run for president and be a felon? that doesn't make sense. where do we find the space to

have people like elon musk, who is not an american citizen, and vivek ramaswamy -- how are they running something that is not even in the government? host: troy in pittsburgh, pennsylvania on the line for republicans. good morning. caller: yes, i was calling and was going to try to square things away. the president was a political thing with the prosecution and stuff that happened. that is why they are this appearing n -- they are disappearing now. with the immigration, our country -- i mean, i think we are at almost 60 million people.

we can't have open borders. that is why he is trying to shut the border down. we are taking panama back. so people coming from down in south america would have to come through the panama canal. that is cutting them off. and then the tarrifs, when nafta came into play, there were a lot of jobs north or south. what he is trying to do is he is trying to bring the jobs back. i was watching the segment when they are talking about it is going to hurt people in california, the farmers, the illegals who are working, no. it will force the farmers to pay a wage that regular people can go back to work at those farms. right now, they are paying the illegals the least amount of money to work there. that is why they are there. thank you. host: eric in surprise, arizona

on the line for independents. good morning. caller: good morning. i was just watching the clip that was talking about the amount of immigrants that do the farm work. i had this idea. it would have to be worked out, but it dawned on me, we have all of those people across america all over the streets. people in halfway drug houses. if we start somehow orchestrating a nationwide thing where the government is involved and financing it, we put them on the farms to do all the work and gets them on their feet and a way to work out of the homelessness, or whatever it is, and the drugs. it gets them up in the morning, gets them busy doing stuff as opposed to being on the street asking for money and doing drugs. host: would that program you

suggest be voluntary or nonvoluntary? caller: it would have to be organized. it would have to be something where -- there are a lot of details. it was just an idea to start with. i think it has a lot of room for people to figure out what you asked. i think that if there is a government program, they would have to round them up, of course voluntarily, but where they will be taken out to the farms and put to work. it's like a step up back into society. it is better than sitting on the streets and doing drugs and panhandling. it gives them a steppingstone to -- yeah. host: eric was talking about homelessness. we receive new data on homelessness this week. as reported in the associated press, u.s. homelessness is up 18% as affordable housing remains out of reach for many people.

the united states sought an 18.1% increase in homelessness this year, a dramatic rise driven mostly by a lack of affordable housing, as well as devastating natural disasters, and a surge of migrants in several parts of the country that are officials said yesterday -- federal official said yesterday. head said that federally required tallies taken across the country in january found that more than 770,000 people were counted as homeless. a number that misses some people and doesn't include those staying with friends or family because they don't have a place of their own. that increase comes on top of a 12% increase in 2023, which had blamed on soaring -- hud blamed on soaring rents. it was also driven my people experiencing homelessness for the first time. numbers overall represent 23 of every 10,000 people in the u.s., with black people being

overrepresented among the homeless population. rob is in auburn, new york on the line for independents. caller: happy new kimberly. i would like to address a few things that the press seems to overlook every day. first, mr. musk is a guest of the united states, complements of the immigration and naturalization service. i suggest as a project for him that mr. trump ask him to go back to his native south africa and help them correct an economy where 35% of the adult population is unemployed. second, when it comes to mr. ramaswamy, perhaps he could don an american peace corps shirt,

returned to his ancestral home, and help them build a reliable national electric grid with a reliable national railroad service that doesn't kill hundreds of their riders every year. finally, remind the american public of this. an executive order by the president is not a law. host: both of the gentleman you mentioned, musk and ramaswamy, are u.s. citizens. why should they be focusing their efforts in other countries? caller: musk is not. he has a green card. host: i believe musk is a u.s. citizen, but i will double check. caller: you can do that. as far as i know i am right. my daughter was an eisenhower fellow in south africa. these guys obviously have a lot of money and a lot of time and

talent on their hands. there are worse places than america facing far more serious economic problems than the department of governmental efficiency in the united states, which is not even a department. the other thing is, a presidential executive order is not a law. laws are passed by both houses of congress, signed by a president, printed in a law b ook, and that is a law. host: i want to follow up on your point about elon musk. it is reported in the washington post, musk, who was born in south africa, obtained canadian citizenship through his mother and is a naturalized american citizen. he denied working in the united states illegally because this particular article is about the student be said that he had

before working on an h-1b visa, which the washington post and others have reported that he worked in the u.s. illegally when immigration enforcement was more lax. he is currently a u.s. citizen. caller: he started with an h-1b visa? ok. the point on a presidential executive order not being a law of the united states. host: ray is in tennessee on the line for republicans. caller: one of the gentleman before said the russian wasn't a hoax, that he was a felon. he didn't say what felonies he committed, just that he was a felon. you can say what you want to say, but it doesn't mean it's the truth. have just come through four years of a democrat politician

that didn't do nothing in four years. then we put a woman as vice president, her own state did not want her to run for president. couldn't even get the votes. four years, this country has been a mess for four years. now, donald trump, he has proven that he can govern. elon and -- and vivek ramaswamy are looking to make a better place. give them a chance. you gave biden and use what happened. he ran it into a ditch. give donald trump a chance to do what he said he's going to do. thank you. host: sarah in new hampshire on the line for independents. caller: good morning.

i would like to remind everybody that the day before the elections, our inflation was down to 2.1%. gas was $2.99 a gallon. we dropped 75 points on interest rates. we have more jobs than people to fill them according to unemployment rates. um, the people in the southern border come here, they are neighbors. any christian nose, love thy neighbor. these people come here. they help put food on our tables. anytime you put a mouth full of food, an immigrant helped put it there. if you go back and watch a documentary, i think it was called the corporations, you will see that suppressing the employment of engineers, american engineers, goes back 10

to 15 years anyway with the executives from gte telling their hiring people how to hire indians instead of americans. as far as the homeless rate, new hampshire's homeless rate went up 50% last year. the biggest influx of immigrants into the state of new hampshire? indians. so, donald trump ran our economy into the ground by not managing covid when he was in office, causing the shutdown. he gave away huge amounts of money, ppe money. everyone is ignoring this. i'm not a big fan of biden this past year, but he got us back on track under his administration. now, we are giving donald trump

another chance to run us into the ground because he doesn't care about his constituents that put him into office. he cares about himself, lining his pockets. musk is, i think, gave him $400 million to get into office. donald trump is indebted to him . we are now seeing how that is playing out with -- we have to support the family. when people have children, they have to take care of those children. it costs money to take care of those children. the minimum wage has gone up a quarter in the last 45 years. we don't support the family. we have republicans complaining about the birthrate being down. where -- you know, help these people. if you want americans to have

children, they can't really afford to do this. i don't understand why republicans, they are trashing public education. they are against any kind of welfare. they are against food stamps. they are against any -- now they are trying to undermine social security and medicare, things we paid into. why? so they can line their pockets, a slave system. i was underpaid for 45 years based on that system of not increasing the minimum wage with the cost of living. now, i'm at the social security age. i'm going to be in poverty because of my low wages over my work career. i don't understand why people voted donald trump back in. i don't understand.

i grew up working in agriculture and construction. working very, very hard for very little compensation. people cannot afford to work for six dollars an hour or $7.25 an hour, which is what farm labor pays. if a farmer brings in immigrants legally, apparently he has to pay them $17 an hour to milk cows. it's not going to happen. if you want to eat today we should embrace some of the immigrants who come here. they should come here illegally. as far as importing people from india to take over our higher-paying jobs from americans? you know, i'm all for embracing our neighbors, but, you know, as

far as taking in everybody from europe, asia, india, africa, i think that's not realistic. host: let's hear from fairfax station, virginia. good morning. caller: i don't see how in the united states of america you can let a guy with 47 felony charges , a guy with one felony gets out and they can even get a job at mcdonald's. they voted him as president. the guy is a crook. he lies. host: i do believe, if you're referring to president-elect donald trump, has only been convicted of 34 felony counts at this point. caller: sorry, 34. i'm telling people just sit back.

hey wanted the job, now he has it. let's see what he does with it. i think you will make a lot of mistakes. i tell people all of the time that we need to him as not president trump. felon, he is a felon, phelan president trump. that's how we need to talk to him on a talk show. they need to all say felon president trump. what do you think about germany? they need to keep doing it because he needs to be reminded that he is a felon. regardless if they put him in office were not. the guy is a convicted felon and he could not overturn that he has. people need to realize that he doesn't care about the poor white people who put him in office. he doesn't care about black people who put him in office or latinos. when the black guys who voted him in office, when the police start shooting the more interesting the more, and the white and spanish people who put him in office, they are going to be -- half of their family will

be deported because of trump. they need to realize that they voted in the wrong man and they will pay for. host: romney in sioux falls, south dakota on the line for republicans. good morning, ronnie. caller: i am a disabled veteran. i was wondering on the cost of living raise, this year we got $100 on our v.a. checks. i was wondering -- last year we got $250. i was wondering why. i am on social security, also. i am a disabled vet. i was in vietnam for two years. host: i'm not able to find that information for you quickly, but usually the cost-of-living adjustments are related to the overall rate of inflation. since the rate of inflation has gone down, that can be one of the reasons. did you have any other points

that you wanted to share? caller: the thing is, yesterday you were talking about the death penalty. they were saying they are better off just letting them in for life. i got in a car wreck in 1981. i went to prison for eight years. my stepbrother got killed. we were drinking and drugging. i went through riots. i was out west in walla walla, washington and over there in monroe. i've live it, you know? we would be better off just to let them do their time in prison. but then they put them in protective custody, so no one can get to them. host: ronnie, i was able to find

more information about the cost-of-living adjustments you were referencing earlier. this is from military.com from october. it says military retirees and disabled veterans will receive a 2.5% increase to their monthly paychecks for 2025 thanks to the annual cost-of-living adjustment tied to inflation. 2.5% may look low compared to recent years, cola adjustments in 2024, 8.7% in 2023, 5.9% in 2022, it is close to the average of about 2.6% for the fast -- past decade. this is the department of labor determines the annual cola by measuring the consumer price index, cpi, a measurement of broad samplings of the cost of consumer goods and expenses are the cpi is compared to the previous year. if there is an increase there is

a cost-of-living adjustment.if there is no increase, there is no cola and benefits remain the same. they don't increase. it is the overall inflation rate that determines how much that adjustment was this year. caller: thank you for your extra effort. i appreciate you. host: albert in woodbridge, virginia on the line for democrats. good morning, albert. caller: good morning, kimberly. happy new year. i'm going to be very short. donald trump, the democrats lost congress and the presidency simply because of one person. that was merrick garland. merrick garland took his own time bringing charges against donald trump. donald trump should not have even been on the ballot. because of merrick garland, he

is the one that caused the democrats to lose. that's all i have to say. host: rose in illinois on our line for republicans. good morning, rose. caller: i want to answer a couple of questions some of your people have stated today. they called in about elon musk and that includes ramaswamy. they are virtually advisors to president trump. they are not going to change any laws or do anything. trump will handle everything that they advise him on. they are much like alexander hamilton who advised president washington. alexander hamilton was a foreigner who came from one of the islands who was a lotto was very smart -- mulatto who was very smart and very needed at this time. i think god sent alexander hamilton to this country.

he did the same giving us elon musk and ramaswamy. people we need to advance our country to make it great. not keep pushing it in the marshes like the democrats have been doing with all of their sexual deviant season -- sexual deviancy and ruining our children and all of the other bad things they do. we need to be civilized and we should honor people no matter what rankings we have in this country, whether it is the president or an immigrant. as far as i'm concerned, most of these immigrants coming in i see them on tv. they are sitting on the streets collecting food and shelter from us. there is no place for them to have jobs. when i see the pictures of new york, i never want to go to new york. the thought of going to new york makes me want to vomit. that's how bad i think it is.

if you can't run this as a good civilization for all the people who are citizens here, you shouldn't be running it at all, which was biden. thank you for listening to me. host: david in massachusetts on the line for independents. caller: good morning, kimberly. first of all, i am an independent but more on the conservative side. i have trouble with the democrats who are so hypocritical, especially the woman from new hampshire. we need people here, we need emigrants, but not from india and africa. really? you're going to pick and choose where these people can come from? in the past, we've had incredible people come from all of those countries here. and really help make our country what it is. the biggest problem that i have overall with this whole political thing that happened this year, was on the issue of abortion.

you are sitting there today because you were born. i'm here because i was born. yet, the democratic party believes in being able to destroy unborn children up until nine months. i mean, there is something wrong when we lose respect for the most vulnerable among us. when we lose that, why not worry about anybody else? like president biden, he just took away those people who were supposed to be killed in jail and pardoned them. yet, they killed somebody. every day people have an abortion and kill a human being. they look the other way. i don't know. hearing all of the callers, it looks like we are still for the next four or five years separated and what we believe in this country. i don't think it's going to get any better, unfortunately.

i think that you do a good job sitting there. i watch you with your hand waiting to knock someone off, which is funny sometimes and i don't blame you, but i appreciate what the washington journal does. thank you. host: tom in greenwich, new jersey on the line for republicans. good morning. caller: good morning, happy holidays. i have two things to say. the lady from new hampshire, she gave a long rant telling every american this and that. everything she said was the reason why i voted for donald trump. unemployment, homelessness is up 50% in new hampshire. that was under the person that she put into office. right? kamala and biden. must have been still living on the farm in the back with the horses. i want to say that i am a man of color.

i'm white. i hear people complaining. if you don't like it here in america, get on an airplane and head back home to where your family is probably from. thank you. host: mark in cloverdale, indiana on the line for independents. caller: good morning. this is mark. i'm calling in -- first, i would like to make a couple of short comments. my doctor is from india. she is a lady of probably 50 years old. she is featured on the front of the indianapolis -- a beautiful gal, wonderful doctor, and i thank india for every doctor they sent here. another thing i would like to mention is, we had a discussion earlier and i did not manage to get in on the discussion on polarization in america and so forth.

i have driven a truck into canada many times and i met the canadian people. they are wonderful people. if they were to become part of the united states, i would welcome them with open arms. especially those from alberta and manitoba who are just like the center of the country. the polarization is always around social issues. he used to be the democrats and republicans could get along real well with each other when it was just how do you divide the economic pie. since you brought in abortion and perversion on children, there is no way this country can ever come together, because those involve moral issues of evil and good and you cannot bring evil and good together. appreciate you taking my call and i wish you the best today. host: alan in mississippi on the line for republicans. good morning. go ahead.

caller: hello, am i on? host: yes, you are. go ahead, alan. caller: food for thought about american politics. now, clinton was a small time lawyer in chicago and his wife was his secretary. after being in politics for the years he was -- host: are you referring to clinton? i believe he was in arkansas. caller: arkansas. i do beg your pardon. now, he has a net worth of $85 million. that's all right. it's a capitalist country and i understand that. his wife, who was his secretary,

secretary of state, traveled the world. she is worth $140 million. now, all these people, diamonds to the family of biden's for what reason, goodness knows. we all know, but nobody admits it. with president trump, the difference is, he is a self-made man. he did not take any salary for what he does. he has no shares. he is not in anybody's pocket. i think what he is going to do, what everyone is afraid of that

he is going to drain the swamp. that's what he's going to do. i will leave it at that. host: all right, carla in new york city on the line for democrats. good morning. caller: thank you, kimberly for taking my call. i want to respond to the lady from illinois who had negative things to say about new york city. i'm sick and tired of people dumping on new york city. i'm a 66-year-old single cat lady who has done very well here. i love living here. if i thought it was a cesspool i would have been out of here yesterday. i like to remind you of something. your fearless leader, trump tower is like the jewel in his crown. if it is so terrible, why doesn't he sell it to someone else who can turn it into something better? if you think it so horrible. the fact that is there

demonstrates that he doesn't think it's such a terrible place. the one better thing that i have to say is, now that president trump is in mar-a-lago i'm so grateful that we are rid of him. i think that new york is a better place since he no longer resides here on a permanent basis. although come the people from florida have my sympathy. i do have to say. there was another lady from new hampshire. i thought what she had to say was very eloquent. i wish that i could be as articulate as she was outlining all of the things that she has experienced throughout her life. i hope that she does well on social security. that's pretty much all i have to say. i think that new york city is a great place to live. it's the capital of the world for a reason. thank you, have a good day. host: i hope that everyone has a good day. that's where we are going to end the show today. thank you to everyone who called in to share your questions and comments on washington journal. we will be back with another edition of

7:00 a.m. eastern we hope that you will tune in. have a great day. >> watch the finale of washington journals special holiday series featuring a new writer each day. sunday morning, writer and policy expert ryan rising her talks about his book "land rich, cash poor: my families home and the untold story of the disappearing american farmer." >> next from the c-span archives

, a look at president elect trump's nominees in their own words. you will hear from senator marco rubio, tapped to be the next secretary of state, and pete hegseth, the defense secretary nominee, above others. within the first public hearing of the afghanistan war commission examines the origins of the afghanistan war and the lessons learned. later, former defense secretary leon panella discusses the role of civics and -- civics education and its implications for u.s. democracy. >> watch the presidential inauguration january 20. american history tv on c-span two presents a four week series. historic inaugural each best speeches. each weekend listen to inaugural speech is given after president's horse born in from

franklin roosevelt to barack obama. today will feature president roosevelt. >> the only thing we have to fear is fear itself. >> president harry truman. >> i believe that those countries will abandon their delusions. >> and president dwight. >> we sense with all our faculties that forces of good and evil are amassed, armed, and opposed as rarely before in history. >> watch historic inaugural speech is saturday at 7:00 p.m. eastern on american history tv on c-span two. >> in his latest book "lbj and mcnamara" the dedication reads "to those in the vietnam war and

their countless vietnamese counterparts it did not have to happen." as his -- in his role as a publisher he worked with former defense secretary robert mcnamara for his 1995 book "retrospect". the book describes what happens in the years between 1963 and mcnamara's last day as secretary of defense in february of 1960 eight. robert mcnamara died in 2009 at age 93. >> lbj and mcnamara, the vietnam partnership destined to fa on this episode of book notes p with host brian lamb available on the c-span now mobile app or wherever you get your podcasts. >> c-span is your unfiltered view of government funded by these television companies and more including wow. >> the world has changed.

today fast and reliable internet connection is something no one can live without. while is there for our customers with reliability, value, and choice. now, more than ever, it starts with great internet. >> wow supports c-span as a public service along with these other television providers giving you a fnt roweato democracy. >> here on c-span, we are pulling from the c-span archives to give you trump nominees in their own words. former texas nomineeohn radcliffe is the president elect nominee to head the cia. he previously served as a national intelligence director during the first trump ministration and was a u.s. attorn for the eastern district of texas for one year before he was elected to congress. next, a brief portion of the descendant represent