♪ host: the new congress and president elect trump have been

ambitious to muster policy agenda for 2025 including multiple wars, international migration, climate change and more, demanding the attention of the nation's leaders as well. we want to hear your perspective. what do you think the biggest global threat facing the united states in 2025? our phone lines for democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. if you'd like to text us, that number is (202) 748-8003. please be sure to include your name and where you are writing in from. and if you would like to reach us on social media, feel free to reach us on x. after the attack in new orleans, the new orleans attack showed

that isis had not gone away, it has changed. that isis is still a threat, going on to say the deadly attack in new orleans on new year's eve that left 15 people dead feels like a disturbing reminder of a past era, one with a transnational terrorist organization known as the islamic state dominated the nation's attention and resources. one of trump's advisers spoke about isis on fox news last month, trump national security advisor nominee, republican congressman michael waltz spoke about the tricky middle east politics confronting the incoming administration. let's listen. >> the president has been crystal-clear and his mandate from the voters was to do everything he can to avoid us getting dragged into more middle east wars. but in syria, he is clear about

the threat of isis that is still there. this administration just hit than 75 times. isis was also looking to explode back on the scene. we have tens of thousands of isis fighters still encamps that were put there under the first administration when we had to clean up the isis caliphate, so what we have to be careful of is that once the hts backed by turkey is done with the assad regime that they don't turn on our friends, the kurds who are guarding these isis camps. >> what about this guy, he was in al qaeda militant, extremist. mommy says he is more moderate. some people believe this is just a wolf in sheep's clothing and that syria could be well on the way to becoming the next afghanistan. >> the jury's out. the guy is a terrorist, the organization is a declared terrorist organization, but we

haven't seen assad regime officials hanging from bridges, we haven't seen mass beheadings. they are literally sitting in a four seasons right now talking with former regime officials about how to govern the place and how to take things down. so we are watching closely. the current administration is watching closely and again, the jury is out. but what we can't have them or others do is do anything that would unleash isis back on the scene. that is the critical interest to americans back here at home. we can't have a return of the isis caliphate and we have to keep a lid on it. host:: back to that article about the new orleans attack and the role of isis in it, the attacker, a 42-year-old army veteran from texas rammed a truck into bourbon street before being killed initiative with police. he was flying the isis flight from his vehicle and posted videos on facebook shortly before the attack pledging support of the group and

embracing thursday, fbi assistant director christopher wray described him as 100% inspired by isis. other stories that are going to be on the agenda for the incoming administration will be directed by trump's advisors and those advisors all have quite a few things in common. trump national security text -- picks staunchly pro-israel, going on to say that donald trump has been quick to fill out his national security team in the initial selections have provided some insight into what his second term could entail. the president-elect announced that michael waltz, republican of florida will serve as is national security advisor and that he will nominate representative elise stefanik, republican of new york to the ambassador to the united

nations. there have been widespread reports that he will tack -- tapped marco rubio to service secretary of state. the biggest surprise afar has been that of pete headset as a defense secretary nominee. trump intentionally chose to surround himself with people who would be loyal to him and his agenda, a corrective decision at the beginning of his further than this ration was marred by conflicting interests and disloyalty among his cabinet and staff. he went through multiple national security advisor sent defense secretary during his first term. again, we are looking for your five this morning on the biggest global threat facing the united states in 2025. before we get to your calls, we want to take a live look at the carter center where president jimmy carter is lying in repose, and the members of the public will be able to view his casket throughout the day. that is a live image coming from the carter center.

glenn is in florida on the line for democrats. good morning. caller: good morning. i think one of the biggest threats is president-elect trump's admiration of dictators worldwide. and i feel concerned because in my generation, we fought the vietnam war to stop the domino effect of communism. and this was a french controlled country far removed from us, not really in our. a lot of our friends and neighbors either came back messed up or didn't come back at all. and now we have this war in ukraine and i feel that we are going to stop backing the ukrainians and there just cause and that this might lead to a breakdown of nato. and for me, that is my biggest fear. host: glenn mentioned ukraine. there is a story in the guardian about the united states role in

that ongoing conflict. you crave more breathing, zelenskyy hopes that trump unpredicted bill they can end the war with russia going on to say that ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy has expressed hope that the u.s. president-elect donald trump's unpredicted ability can help end the war with russia. he has said he will end the nearly three year conflict in 24 hours once in power, a claim that is drawn skepticism which make many fear it will be forced to give up land for kyiv. i would really like to see president trump's i'm ability applies to russia. i believe you believe wants to end the war, he said in an interview that aired thursday with ukrainian tv. next up is john in new york on the line for independents. caller: thank you for taking my call. i'd just like to respond

quickly. i used to think the greatest threat to american security would be china, russia or north korea. i don't believe that anymore. we just allow ourselves to be caught up in all of the smoke and mirrors, we are constantly divided over political issues, and we see a breakdown in actual problem-solving and just a functioning society. we don't seem to have that anymore. we let the bench control us, we don't control events. the american people sadly are extremely ignorant when it comes to political issues. they never organize, they respond to emotional outbursts. and what is happening basically as we are losing control of the government. the gentlemen mentioned earlier about vietnam and stuff, these

wars have been going on all the time, and we allow ourselves to get drawn into them. the only people actually benefiting our globalists. we lost a great man. he lost jimmy carter. he provided moral clarity for the nation. he didn't have a successful presidency but he was a good old boy for the nation and i say that with extreme reverence area you need people like him. and what have we had since then? they demonized a guy like trump, they break every constitutional principle just for personal gain. so i would just say that the american people should look at trump and a more positive light. give him a chance, see how he does and stop demonizing people that you disagree with. thanks for taking my call, have a good day. host: john was referencing former president jimmy carter who has been mentioned earlier

live in repose -- lying in repose at the carter center today and tomorrow in atlanta, georgia. and then on tuesday, the u.s. capitol in washington with the president will lie in state at the capitol rotunda and the public will be allowed to pay their respects starting at 7:00 p.m. that evening. then on wednesday president carter will again lie in state at the u.s. capitol before being trained or did -- transported to the washington cathedral for a funeral service. later in the day the funeral -- former president will take his last trip home to be buried in georgia. we will of course show these events live on the c-span network, streaming and align at c-span.org and on the free mobile video app. we are also hearing from john talking about the role of former president trump in terms of what he might do in regards to wars

around the world, and we have a gallup poll which found that far more americans now compared to 2016 belief that trump will keep the nati out of war, rising 17%. by contrast in 2016, the majority, 57% doubted he would keep the country out of war, likely reflecting his claims that russia, ukraine and israel-hamas wars would not have occurred if you are president and that he will end both quickly and that he started "no new wars" in his first term. we are looking to hear from you, what you think the top level threat facing the united dates in 2025 is. the phone number for democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. susan is in connecticut on the line for independents good

morning. caller: yes, good morning. i think the most concerning thing i feel is the global misinformation that goes on in every country and how countries respond to the media, the public figures, misinformation that people act upon and can lead to interactions with people that are responding to misinformation that they believe is true and then they act upon it and then it keeps us divided. and it would be nice if the media was not so involved in these relationships where you see them contributing to trump's

inauguration -- i can't say it, i have a cold. host: you mean the leaders of the media organization financially contributing to trump's inauguration fund? caller: thank you, yes. i think there should be a firewall between the media and our politics, and that has shifted through the years, and it affected rural areas and cities, it is everywhere where people honestly believe things that are so not true and they double down on that, and it is not just america, it is other countries. so thank you for taking my call and have a happy new year. thank you. host: thank you, susan. to get a few more details on what susan was referencing, there is an article from npr. tech moguls donate to trump's inauguration fund.

obviously jeff bezos being the owner of the washington post, silicon valley executives, some who have long had contentious relationships with donald trump are pledging money and support to the incoming administration. openai ceo sam altman intends to make a $1 million arsenal donation to the inauguration fund the company confirmed to npr on friday. it follows news that meta-, the parent company of instagram and facebook is already contribute $1 million and amazon has also promised in $1 million infusion to the inauguration offers. richland, michigan, line for republicans. caller: our biggest trouble is we've got too many highly educated, unqualified people that want to be in charge for the things of trump the fairgrounds, that woman didn't

have brains enough to --. she probably had papers saying she was smart. same thing with this lady in new orleans. she is dumber than a sheet of drywall. host: so what do you think at the biggest global threat facing the united states? caller: our own stupid people. host: portland, oregon, line for democrats. caller: good morning, thank you for your program. i believe the greatest threat to our country and the world is donald trump. yes, he was fairly elected, but look at the people at he is appointing or once to a point. unqualified people, and the recent hearing for speaker of the house, even his own gop are

supporting him. everyone is afraid of this dictator. so if our government can't stand up to trump, i think this is going to be the worst crisis, and i'm 70 years old and i fought civil rights, women's rights 50 years ago and i'm so saddened with what the american people have done. so i hope and pray that my worst fears will not come to fruition, and thank you. host: elise mentioned how republicans may interact with president elect donald trump when it comes to foreign policy. his former republican senate leader mitch mcconnell at the reagan presidential library earlier this month advocating for a continued role of american engagement on the global stage.

>> president trump's views -- were not to be discarded with the rubble of soviet tyranny. he called our attention to the old adage that america is great because it is good, and if america ever ceases to be good, america will cease to be great. and just as greatness follows goodness -- [applause] and just as greatness follows goodness he reminded us of another principal no less important. peace through strength. the value of these lessons is timeless. but as we know, their endurance is hardly certain.

at the reagan library i'm preaching to the choir. i know that. but in washington as we faced down a new era of great power competition, influential voices want to leave the lessons of the past competition, cold war, just leave it at the door. at both ends of our politics, a dangerous fiction is taking hold, that america's privacy and the fruits of our leadership are actually self-sustaining. even as allies across nato and the indo pacific renew their own commitments, the interoperability and collective defense, some now question america's own role at the center

of these force multiplying institutions and partnerships. at the parlor -- party ronald reagan once led is increasingly fashionable to suggest that the sort of global leadership he modeled is no longer america's place. but let's be absolutely clear. america will not be made great again by those who are content to manage our decline. host: you can give us a call or reach us on social media or via text. sandy and bloomington, indiana said climate change is among the biggest global threats. catastrophic weather events have affected every corner of the globe and getting increasingly worse.

i'm afraid that trump does not take it seriously and will even pull out of the climate accords. south dakota, line for independents. caller: great job again. i'm happy to call in. i love c-span. first of all, i really don't think strength asked to peace. i really believe internally right in america is the biggest global threat. we have many terrorist cells in this country and it's very importantly focus on that. and the second problem is our industrial military complex. eisenhower warned us in 1953

the, beware of that. you do not have a choice to go to war, and we have. we have just led us down a track not able to be out of war, so i do want to state let's give the new president a chance. he may be able to stop these wars, and my last point is i really think that americans need to grow up and become attuned to their democracy because they are losing it. the decay, and my opinion, began in 1963 with the assassination of president kennedy. when the government lies to you six years, you are in trouble.

that is all i wanted to stay. i really love c-span, who do a great job and thank you very much. host: john is in new york on the line for republicans. good morning, john. caller: hello? get ready the next, putin is a problem. we've got 2 million nukes in the world. i believe the bible, i'm a christian and i know we could possibly go out in a fireball. st. peter said it would happen. ok? it is in second peter in the new testament. i believe the bible. i don't want to see the world go up in a nuclear holocaust. that's the biggest problem, there's too many nukes. stop messing around. nukes are weapons, nuclear power

plant we don't need them. that is how i feel about it. host: george is in pennsylvania on the line for democrats. good morning, george. caller: the biggest global threat right now is the fuel of the human species. our food is killing us and it is not conspiracy anymore, the cat is out of the bag. everybody knows it and it is causing a lot of problems. host: before you move onto to your second point, i'm curious what you think of the incoming administration's conversations about what they are calling the make america healthy again agenda that is being spearheaded by rfk jr., what do you think of that? caller: that is a good plan. i mean, he's on the right path

with things, but i don't know if he's going to be able to get anything done. once again, everything has become so separated and federal communication is so ineffective and inefficient from one person to the next. these corporations, let me say this. corporations have the ability to track everything. why doesn't the government have the ability to connect? for security reasons, they are having trouble. i could send a team of doorknocker is out right now. why isn't the government doing things and enforcing efficiency and effectiveness? host: george was talking about

the problems that he sees with our food system globally, and i mentioned the incoming administration and the make america healthy again agenda. there is a story about it in cbs news. what is make america healthy again? what to know about trump and rfk jr.'s wide-ranging platform. robert f. kennedy, jr. has outlined a number of promises to make america healthy again under president elect donald trump, vowing to combat and get them it of chronic diseases that he has described as an extension threat to america's future. all are under the banner of fighting what kennedy sees as a common thread behind a broad swath of elements that americans have been "mass poisoned by big pharma and big food and that federal agencies have failed to stop it." in response he has quoted a number of specific policy ideas to remake the government public health institution, and several of those have been highlighted, looking at staff changes in

federal agencies, along with getting chemicals out of food and other agendas. maria is in vancouver, washington on the line for democrats. good morning. what do you think if the biggest global threat facing the united states this year? caller: global threat? uh, global threat. i don't appreciate -- well, getting back to kennedy, i don't believe he is the right man for the job. host: we are talking about global threats. while you get your thoughts together on that let's hear from franklin intel of when you're on the line for republicans area good morning, franklin. caller: good morning, thanks for

taking my call. i was glad to hear at least one caller say that the greatest global threat is nuclear war. i completely agree. we are closer to nuclear war than we ever have been in the history of this country, and that includes the cuban missile crisis. i guess if you want to provide a locust for this it would be the goings-on in you rain right now. all it would take is one missile into a native country, nato response, and then we are at war with russia. it may give you an example, concrete. the russians have a missile that has 10 independently targetable warheads on it, each one 800 kilotons. just one of those if it were to explode above washington, d.c.,

ground zero would completely wipe out washington, d.c. the united states has e equivalent. but i'm just trying to draw attention to the fact that on a scale of one to 10, that is the 10. as the greatest global threat that we face. and if you allow me one more point, one of the first callers said that he didn't like the fact that trump was cozying up to dictators. well, let's look at the cuban missile crisis. what happened afterwards? kennedy and khrushchev established redlines between each office so that if there was a problem, khrushchev could pick up the phone and talk to kennedy, kennedy could pick up the phone and talk to khrushchev. with that cozying up to a dictator? that is a rhetorical question obviously.

i hope i was clear. host: you were very clear. franklin as well as the previous caller referenced nuclear threats. the atomic scientists who are known for their doomsday clock related to nuclear threats globally had a story out on january 3, or an article. the nuclear year in review, welcome to the antechamber of the next new the a crisis, saying this past year there has not been a single week without the reminder of the danger posed by nuclear weapons. nuclear noise and signaling where individuals made into or exquisite references to nuclear weapons possible use calling almost everything a nuclear threat, but the biggest change this year's is argued leave the instability now at the door to nuclear powers and the looming possibility of a nuclear crisis. the country with the world's largest nuclear arsenal, russia, is still ferociously waging war against ukraine and has now

brought in north korean troops to support its effort. russia also updated its nuclear doctrine, expanding the conditions under which it might use nuclear weapons. in another major development, the united states, medic kingdom in france authorized ukraine to use their missile systems to strike targets inside russia. a few days later, russia responded by using new intermediate range missiles against ukraine. in the middle east, iran launched large barrages against israel. on two occasions, the face-off prompted fears that israel might attack iran's nuclear sites in retaliation, a move that could have nuclear effects -- ripple effects on nuclear proliferation in the region. going back to the risk coming out of ukraine and russia's conflict, president elect trump met with ukrainian president leonard zelenskyy during the campaign to talk about the russia ukraine conflict in the future of u.s. support for

ukraine. here is a portion of the statement. >> so we will see how it all works out. hopefully it will work out. we are going to work very much with both parties to try to get this settled and get this worked out. it has to end. at some point this has to end. nobody's ever seen anything like it, it is a terrible situation. and i will say i have a great relationship, when they did the impeachment hopes, it was a hoax, just a democrat hoax, which we won, but one of the reasons we wanted so easily is that when the president was asked, he was on a phone call with the president and he could have grandstanding and played cute and he didn't do that. he said president trump did absolutely nothing wrong. he said it loud and clear.

and the impeachment hoax died right there. he could have said well, i don't know. it was like a piece of steel. he said president trump did nothing wrong. we have a very nice call, he congratulated me on the victory. and i remember that. he could have played cute and he didn't play cute and so i appreciate it. and so we have a very good relationship and i also have a very good relationship as you know with president putin and we win at they we are going to get it resolved very quickly. host: thank your call on the biggest global threat facing the united states in 2025. virginia, line for democrats. caller: communication between all these countries, no one wants to see nuclear war.

that doesn't make sense, everybody loses. but they don't start negotiate and being honest with each other with what is really going on around the globe, around the world globally, that is going to be the problem. the dictators, they are the ones in control of all this, and they are not going to let their finances be destroyed. china has too much money invested in america. russia has too much money invested in america. they have elon musk traveling back and forth all these different countries between north korea and everybody. they need to get everybody out of his politics. the president should be doing the negotiating between putin, ukraine, north korea, bringing it all out here because the europeans will let this stuff keep happening, and they are the ones in control. so trump needs to stand up and

get people out of the way. if he is going to be the president, do what you are going to do to confront china and north korea. nuclear war, i think that is just a threat they are using against all people. not going to happen because everybody loses. that's my opinion. thank you for taking my call. host: richard is in tennessee on our line for independents. caller: the biggest global threat that we have in 2025 and beyond and has been in the past and recent years, probably since kennedy's term in the financial institutions. the almighty dollar. when the u.s. dollar fails, china takes over, yes. stash grass cut happens. -- guess what happens. if you want anything they want

in america you are going to have to borrow from the world bank. the fact that the government has sold out this country to foreign countries like china where everything is made. we couldn't get certain supplies, certain materials for the flu and everything. everything is made in china in some offshore account because we want cheap labor. i love america, but we want to talk about clean air and clean water and human rights and all that, but we have these people working in africa and everything is going on. the global dollar, if we don't control the global dollar, china will take over and ruled the roost in america and you haven't seen anything, and then they will, and they too have nuclear war. putin and russia's nothing without their nuclear war. china is another story. so wake up america, you had better get tough and get smart because they are coming. from the south, across the borders.

thanks joe biden. host: richard was talking about the relative strength of the u.s. dollar. a story in forbes from just a few days ago saying that the u.s. battles to maintain its leadership in reserve currency as the global economy faces turbulence. the steady decline in the dollar purchasing power. at the global economy wade through uncertain times, the united states confronts a significant financial challenge. persistent inflation continues to chip away at the value of money, compelling some incoming elected u.s. officials to secure innovative measures to secure economic civility. among the bold strategies is the introduction of bitcoin, a move that could redefine the nation's financial framework, a potential shift also highlighting the

urgent need for forward thinking solutions. purchasing power refers to the amount of goods and services a unit of currency can buy, and this is a chart showing one way purchasing power has declined over time. and this was an opinion piece in forbes. let's go back to your calls on the biggest threat facing the u.s. in 2025. charles is in syracuse, new york on the line for republicans. good morning. caller: i think china definitely is the biggest threat. they talk about it being a threat probably on a scale of 1-19. china has contributed nothing to this world except viruses and fentanyl. we don't need their factories. we can switch from china to india, and we have emp bombs and

hydrogen bombs. we could wipe them out in a minute. get rid of china. host: trisha is in florida on the line for democrats, good morning. caller: the biggest threat for the united states in our world is that. what we don't talk about is the rich countries and the g7 and not just debt in the united states, but also our individual debt link the economy. the gdp in china is higher and actually rushes at lower. ours is not as good as china, but student loan debts, credit card debts, all these debts are holding back our economy and is giving rise to control vs.

noncontrol. the oligarchy needs to understand that they need to be so that we can process them. host: patrick is in pittsburgh, pennsylvania on the line for democrats. caller: you know it is stunning when you add the foundation of what we are dealing with, particularly when it comes to the topic of your discussion into discourse this morning. the greatest threats to the united states of america in 2025 is the united states in 2025. we are nothing but war proliferators. we have bankrupted the united states, we are stealing trillions of dollars to engage in one war after another war.

we've already overthrown another government in syria, so we have one destabilized government after another. and now we are talking about getting into a conflict with china which is in economic freefall right now. huge, huge deployment of a bond in order to shore up their national crisis. if you go to beijing, there's massive, massive layoffs across the board. retail stores are closing up everywhere. the real estate market is in absolute freefall. and we are pushing them towards a competition with taiwan just like we did with russia. the ukrainian war is a complete hoax. it was designed by us, we overthrew a democratically elected government because they were friendly to the russian federation. russia should be our friends. there's no reason for what we are dealing with.

you have ukrainian dictators who have put priests in jail, they close down churches, they've destroyed all liberties in ukraine, and everything that we do causes chaos. and what president trump is going to do, and i'm a democrat and voted for him, is he's going to stop all of these wars. we need to make it very clear to them that we are not going to be involved in more proliferation, and we need to make it very clear to other countries, our infrastructure is literally imploding while countries like saudi arabia produce $1.2 trillion treaties. we have no rapid transit system, that is why elon is going to help us. i'm excited on the one hand, but

with the global economic instability right around the corner, i'm very concerned. host: patrick referenced many statements that trump and voters have made about him bringing a swift ending to wars. here is donald trump talking about just that at a news conference. >> what is happening with our country and what is happening with the world, many people, some reporters said you know, actually it's true, a couple of them are not necessarily friend of mine but they said is actually true that there is a light shining over the world. we are trying to help very strongly in getting the hostages back, as you know, with israel, the middle east. we are working very much on that. we are trying to get the worst stop. horrible wars going on in ukraine, russia, ukraine. we've got a little progress. it is a tough one, it is a nasty one. people are being killed at levels that nobody has ever

seen. it's a very level field and the only thing that stops a bullet is a body, a human body. and the number of soldiers that are being killed on both sides are astronomical. i've never seen anything like it. i get reports every week and it is not even, it's like they are going down. nobody has seen anything like it. it's a very flat surface. it's the bread for the world, very flat and there is nothing to stop a bullet but a body. what is happening there is far worse than people are reporting. we are going to do our best and we've been doing our best so we will see what happens. but since the election i've been working every day to put the world that he is a little bit to get rid of the wars. we had no wars when i left office and now the whole world is blowing up.

but there's great optimism. host: lewis is in pennsylvania on the line for republicans. good morning. can you turned on the volume on your tv and then go ahead. caller: sure. thank you very much for allowing me to speak. several items, i agree pretty much with everything everyone just said. my biggest issues nuclear proliferation. you mentioned the bulletin of atomic scientists. many don't realize we're closer to midnight for the zero hour now than we were during the crew -- cuban missile crisis and that is concerning. the second item is we are finally hearing at least attempted solutions to many of the problems that are worldwide, and at least we have now a president-elect who was

addressing and speaking to some of them. and my hopes for 2025 and beyond, the world finds a solution. we are one world. even though we are separate countries, when you look at the shots from the moon back to the world, we are one community. and until people recognize and leaders recognize that and appreciate that we are just one solitary world, that is the only way to solve those problems. so thank you very much and have a good day. host: larry is in north carolina on the line for democrats, good morning. caller: yes, and while back, i don't know where i heard this, but i heard that iran had a bounty on trump's head for killing one of their leaders. and i just wanted to know if you

could say anymore about that. i ain't heard anymore about it. host: i, i'm seeing a reference here -- actually, i'm not. i'm not finding this directly. there was something reported in al jazeera but this was all the way back in 2020 about an iranian member of parliament who put a $3 million bounty on president donald trump's head, but that was a single iranian member of parliament, not necessarily the country. i don't know if there was anything else, and that was all the way back in 2020. with any other global threats that you wanted to talk about, larry? caller: that was the only one i was hoping for. host: philip is in reading, pennsylvania on the line for independents. caller: good morning. it's actually fully pay --

philipe. the population is 91% hispanic, but back to the topic, i think illiteracy is probably one of the biggest threats. inability to discern or read or gather knowledge and learn the truth of what they are being told. fascism in our country is probably one of the greatest threats and then the disparity of wealth. we have those with tremendous wealth who pay little to nothing into the system, and those who are working postal jobs barely making it. that chasm grows and grows on a daily basis. the people are getting frustrated and they have no choice. we either do something or we do nothing and we live in a country of people who do something.

the nuclear threat of the bogeyman has been around since the 1940's. we've been scared of it and it is just a tool to make us scared and make us not want to get along with our neighbors. we have more in common with all these so-called enemies. it's all nonsense. if they were our enemy we wouldn't be doing business with them. more critical thought, the word of the talking heads of what the facts are. thank you for your time. host: he was referencing literacy, the organization of economically -- excuse me,

countries which are a lot of the developing countries in the world. they do polling and surveys on a regular basis global literacy rates, and the most recent one that came out found that among other things, large shares of the adult population scored at the two lowest levels of the proficiency scale. 26% in literacy, 25% numeracy and 29% in adaptive problem-solving on average. in chile, 44% of adults scored at the two lowest levels in all three skill domains compared to only 7% in japan. on average, 55-60 five-year-olds displayed lower proficiency than younger adults, the best results achieved by 25 to 34-year-olds

followed by 16 to 24-year-olds. a variety of data in this report looking at literacy rates globally. jonathan, line for republicans. caller: good morning. the biggest threat i think is obama, bennie thompson, hakim jeffries, kamala harris, for the simple reason that the democrats are the problem. they should be investigated, they need to be looked up and they need to find out everything and everyone who obama has talked to in the past 10 years. and they will find out everything they need to and he will be locked up for treason, i guarantee it 100%. thank you and have a great day. host: michael is in virginia on the line for republicans. good morning, michael.

caller: yes, i listened to everybody's peace. i feel that the greatest threat, when you leave god out of the equation, his wrath is coming in. studied the seventh seal. until we turn away from our wicked ways, things are going to get worse. host: birmingham, alabama, line for independents. caller: yes, to me the biggest

global threat to the world right now is the genocide being conducted in gaza and the united states support of that. the world is talking about it and standing back in horror and people in the united states aren't even aware of it. they are not allowed to discuss it. it is really very frightening. thank you. host: michael is in canton, north carolina on the line for democrats. caller: good morning. host: turn down the volume on your tv and tell us what you think the biggest global threat facing the u.s. is. caller: i believe our greatest global threat is terrorism organizations. the borders opened up.

and all reality, the united states needs to quit policing the world. every time there is a war, we are paying for it. we're at a point in time in the world that we got countries trying to dominate the global economy. i hope trump can pull the rabbit out of the hat, but this last administration, things are really out of control. we can't just open our borders. people do want a better life. and who knows, who really knows what organization or who is over

here. the terrorist attack we just had over the holidays, to me that is our greatest threat to global economy. how does a radical get a hold of a nuclear weapon, a radical country. that is our big threat. people don't comprehend. they just think this thing it's going to go away, and i hope it does but it is going to take a lot of hard, influential intelligence. and i think our biggest problem in this country is that the country polices the world. we have to stop doing that. we did that in vietnam and now we are doing that again in ukraine. we are stirring up the pot. i'm going to leave it at that. host: gilbert is in birmingham,

alabama on the line for independents. caller: thank you c-span. as i listen to the bloomberg news reports, on the other side of the world, germany, france and the u.k., they are all in a skid. in america, the biggest threat i think is china's threat to take over taiwan. i agree with most of the caller this morning that before covid, america was --. what happened? why all of a sudden we don't want to deal with china? before a foreign company came down, you couldn't find jobs in

america. we wouldn't even have had a country. happy new year. host: ohio, line for republicans, good morning. caller: good morning. i was reading an article here a while back talking about global warming. was not seen again for several hundred years and they found it out in the middle of a desert over in the mediterranean area severed hundred years later. digging for diamonds. so evidently that desert -- host: do you think that is a big global threat for us today? caller: yet, there must have been water out there. host: billy is in illinois on the line for democrats.

caller: i just wanted to call in and say that the american people don't know, we pay all the bills. all the people with us, that is what we do. they think that they run the country, but we pay these people to run the country. the president, congress, we pay everybody to run the country for us. that is all i want to say. host: then is an washington, d.c. on the line for republicans. caller: good morning. thanks for taking my call. just wanted to hit on the fact that china is really a big threat. they are going to take over taiwan by 2030, plus or minus a few years which is scary. that is really soon.

and we have the warnings for multiple years now, and i think there's going to be a rude awakening for us taking our current reliance on the manufacturing, everything we buy on amazon. it could be a good thing to keep good relations with them if they conflict were to break out. but i think in 2030, we are going to be in for a rude awakening similar to what we've achieved with ukraine, russia. i think we should probably start to get ready for that now both militarily and from a supply chain issue because i think there is some interdependence there. host: thank you to everyone who called in for the segment. before we wrap up the hour, we will go back to that live shot from the carter center in georgia where former president

jimmy carter is lying in repose and members of the public will be able to view his coffin throughout the day today. coming up next we are going to be joined by democratic strategist martha mckenna and republican strategist mike ritchie who will join us to talk about the process of the new congress and the incoming administration in the year ahead, and later we will have a conversation with the cato institute for a one on one program and the role of foreign workers in the u.s. economy. we will be right back. ♪-- ♪ >> president jimmy carter was the 39th president of the united states and the nation's longest lived leader who passed away last month at the age of 100.

join c-span for live coverage of the funeral. today and monday, the public will have the opportunity to pay their respects as president carter lies in repose at the carter center. on tuesday, his journey continues to washington, d.c. or he will lie in stay at the u.s. capitol rotunda with a service attended by members of congress. the public will have a chance to honor him on wednesday. on thursday, the national funeral service will take place at washington national cathedral followed by his final resting ceremony at the carter family home in plains, georgia. watch c-span's live coverage of the funeral services for former president jimmy carter on the c-span network, c-span now or online at c-span.org. >> book tv, every sunday on c-span two features leading authors stressing their latest nonfiction books. here's a look at what's coming up this weekend. at 5:00 p.m., stanford institute

for human center artificial intelligence fellow maria talks about red leaving the tech industry in her book, the text coup. and at 6:00, ta-nehisi co -- afterwards, mark green, author of oui before me, talks about the vision in america and the advantages of putting others before self. he's interviewed by leo shane. watch book tv every sunday on c-span2 and watch online at any time on book tv.org. >> washington journal continues. host: welcome back. we are ready to start our political roundtable to discuss the new congress and the

incoming administration. joining us to help with that is martha mckenna, a democratic strategist and founder of mckenna media. good morning. guest: good morning. host: and onset, we have mike ricci, a republican strategist and partner with the seventh letter. guest: good morning. host: mark, i would like to start with you and ask you about the new congress, the 119th congress convened last friday. we have a new president come around two, coming in in about 15 days. the gop trifecta with the control of congress, the senate, house and white house -- the judicial, congress and white house. is this what people wanted? guest: the voters voted for it in the ballot box so it's what the people will get.

mike johnson got the boat to keep his job on friday. it was very close. he had to call -- president-elect trump had to make a number of calls at the end and did a little arm-twisting to get the vote for speaker johnson. it just means that going forward, in order to advance president trump agenda on tough issues like the border and immigration and the workforce and taxes and other things, the speaker will have to work hard to hold his caucus together. because he was working with the slimmest of possible majorities. even if democrats want to work with johnson and find common ground on certain bills, there will be a backlash for johnson because republicans in his caucus don't like the idea of working with democrats. it was an incredible tightrope walk for him. i think going forward, we will see how hard it will be to hold the caucus together. and if he has the leadership skills that nancy pelosi had for

so many years when she managed a slim majority, she was able to do it. he will have the help i think of president trump in calling and whipping votes when he needs it. but at that point, it comes at a cost because he would have to advanced the president's agenda. clearly, there are republicans in the house caucus who have their own agendas and are pushing for, in some instances, a more right-wing agenda and smaller government that will be hard for johnson to hold onto. for now, he got the votes he needed on friday. going forward, there is nothing but blue skies for him if he can hold that caucus together. host: martha mentioned something pretty interesting about the role of trump and flipping votes. is this going to be trump's congress or, especially in the house, mike johnson's house? senator sue, a new leader in the

senate, how important will it be for them to have separate identities? or will it be a trump controlled congress? guest: i think it's different from the first time he was president. the first time, he was new to washington. he was new to washington and i think he was kept on the sidelines until he was needed more toward the end. where is here, they called him up and put him on speakerphone and he was talking to members on the golf course. i think it will be very hands-on like that. the vice president was taken directly from the senate, jd vance. for him, the net positive for him was not only did he get the person he wanted, he was personally able to ring him across. i think for trump, even though as chaotic as it was, and a slim as the margin is, that was a show of strength. i think of course that has to work. you saw this with the spending bill a few weeks ago, where he

was hands-on. the flipside of that coin is if he is hands-on and it doesn't work, he can't be blamed, right? that blaine will have to fall on somebody. mike johnson doesn't want it to be him, either. i think whether it is speaker johnson or leader sue, trump will be involved in every step of the process and that's how he wants it to be. host: what's going to happen if the interests diverge? you brought up the spending bill. there is the spending bill pretty much done and then suddenly things change. guest: what you will see is a lot of these negotiations happening out in the open. it will be almost on social media. that's why johnson faces this sort of small group of detractors on the right who will be saying we are the ones

pressing president trump's agenda and for the mega base -- maga base. and does president trump leverage the hard right freedom caucus members to be his voice when things divert? does he use those members to his advantage and use that as his voice on the hill as opposed to pushing them to vote for it? host: martha, what, if any role is there for democrats and all of this? guest: i think mike described it accurately. you have sort of a republican caucus that mike johnson knows how they will vote. and then he has freedom caucus members and others who will pull him in different directions. that is a fight he has within his own caucus. then you have democrats who have a big minority. we have the numbers. we have a number of members who represent districts that trump won who have said they want to

work together when their interests come together. they want to be there and negotiating at the table with house leadership to figure out ways that democrats and republicans can work together. which is a good thing for the country. when we have common interests. and when we have things that we all agree on. the common ground that we can find, it's very important. the problem then for speaker johnson is that there are many members of his caucus who will not allow democrats to come to the table. who do not want democratic votes to pass their agenda. who will really give him a lot of headache for that. -- headaches for that. you have three different points of power within this new congress. certainly, the speaker has a great deal of power. then you have freedom caucus members and then you have a vocal and strong minority in the democrats who will stick together and look for common ground where they can find it. i think that really is going to be -- it could be a good thing

for the country if we can find issues that we agree on, where there are places of agreement. that is important for the country. it's a bit of a headache for speaker johnson. host: staying with you, martha, a bit. the democrats have struggled and debated among themselves just how they are going to oppose trump more broadly since the election. they don't have everything vocal and organized -- a vocal and organized resistance like they did in 2017. there is a guest essay in the new york times that tom susie, a democrat representing new york's third congressional district road. among other points in that article, he said some members of my party and left-leaning advocacy groups are branding themselves athe leaders of a national resistance, opposing ideas from the incoming

administtion. that is a bad strategy. resistce is a role. we can andhould continue to resistr. trump's effort to retaliate against his perceived political enemies by weaponizing the justice department, his pledge to got policies and combat climate change and protect -- gut policies and combat climate change. effectively, we must find common ground and offer solutions. democrats must resist when necessary. our general outlook must be to go beyond resistance and articulate a vision that inspires. do you think that is the right strategy, martha? guest: it was a surprising opinion piece, i thought. coming a few days during the holidays, a few days before the congress was sworn in on friday. and i think he provided an important roadmap for democratic members in marginal districts.

districts that trump may have won or come close to winning pre-he basically said cool off. let's find the common ground, maybe on issues of taxes. possibly issues that are pertinent to different districts across the country that somebody on long island where the congressman represents, may find common ground on pieces of the trump tax plan. there might be other districts in the country that find common ground for democrats and republicans. he basically said it is important to stand up to trump when he's wrong and threatening democracy and when he is threatening american interests. there will be many opportunities for that. i believe we will have moments during this process where his nominees have to go before the senate. i think we will find moments in time over the next couple of months where we have to stand up and say this is wrong. this nominee will not work. or this idea is a bad one for

the country. but the congressman said let's take these ideas individually. let's look for ways we can build the economy together. we can move the country forward together. i think that's ok from embers of congress who represent marginal districts, i think it's ok for the leadership of the party to take a deep breath. we can't deny the fact that trump won the popular vote. there is a republican trifecta. this is what the american people voted for. and we have a job to do here in standing up when trump and the republicans are wrong or go too far or overreach or make a move that is bad for the country. but we also should take a deep breath and say there might be pieces of this agenda that work for the american people and we would be wise to take a strong look at them. host: what are your thoughts about congressman swazi's op-ed and working across the aisle this time? guest: he's from a district

where i grew up in long island. like a lot of places in the country, it has shifted more to the right, more pro-law-enforcement, more working class. people becoming republican. a lot of it in response to some of the policies during the pandemic. some of the defund the police policies. i think a lot of what -- congressman swazi came back from the special election. a lot of what he's saying makes sense because a lot of it is about immigrants listening more to the working class that has started to abandon the more and more. finding common ground and achieving results is a different matter. it's not just about leaving. it's about reading the room, so

to speak. we saw this with a lot of the debates around women's sports. one of the more popular signs that people wanted was save women's sports. how we address ourselves and listen to people and their concerns and being zaidi's about this issue -- the anxieties about this issue, i think that is a lot of it. whether you find common ground or whether democrats, one challenge hakeem jeffries will have is whether he is ok with democrats voting for some of these more bipartisan or more middle-of-the-road bills that republicans try to put up is another matter. i think, again, it starts with listening and being more in tune with these constituencies. i think that is a great place

for democrats to start. host: we want to listen to you all and your thoughts and questions for our guest today. our number for democrats is (202) 748-8000. for republicans, (202) 748-8001. for independents, (202) 748-8002 . we will start with randy in wisconsin on our line for republicans. good morning, randy. caller: good morning. good morning to the world. the question right now is what this administration is. host: we have our roundtable guest to talk about the new congress as well as the incoming administration if you have any questions for them about that. caller: oh yeah, i do. one thing about the incoming administration. every president has had his own

administration come in. there has always been big fights about it. but the president won. he won by a big majority. and he has a plan. he's trying to turn things around in the united states. he's trying to build a government. i do believe this president is going to bring peace back to the world. i hope it's not forced. i hope it's through talking and communication and everything else. host: randy brings up two points i would like you each to respond to. this idea of president elect trump having a mandate as a result of the upcoming election. as well as what we were discussing in our previous hour, the potential foreign policy challenges and whether or not trump is going to bring an end to a lot of the wars as he's

been saying he will do. martha, would you like to respond to randy's point? guest: sure. the senate confirmation process, which we will be engaging in here quickly after the inauguration, in a few weeks, will be a very important process for trump as he fills how his cabinet. i think randy makes a good point that most presidents do get the nominees that they put forward approved. at this point, it's not a question for democrats. kratz can vote against every nominee and they would still make the -- democrats can vote against every nominee and they would still make the appointment. this is a question for susan collins and lisa murkowski who these nominees will need to go and visit with and have conversations with and take questions from and really win the trust of. it really, at this point, democrats think we can anticipate democrats will oppose

many of trump's nominees because they disagree with those people being in charge of whatever department it is. tulsa gabbard or marco rubio, whomever it would be. democrats can choose to support that nominee or not. the truth of it is this is a republican senate caucus challenge of getting these nominees through. and so, the conversations i'm sure are happening over the holidays and will continue. that is up to the republican party. host: mike, what do you think of this concept of the mandate as well as randy's other point about trump bringing peace to the world? guest: i think there is a mandate. nearly 90% of the counties shifted to the right in this election. black and hispanic voters shifted to the right. trump won incredible multiracial and multiethnic coalition. what we've been talking about is the disconnect between a clear mandate and a closely divided congress that has to process

that agenda. absolutely, it is a mandate. i think a lot of the country will want to see results. especially on the economy. and yes, on foreign policy. i think randy speaks for a lot of republicans and moderate voters. they want to see us not as involved in what is going on with ukraine. they want to see us pull back from a lot of these different entanglements. trump's approach is different from the outgoing administration or he wants to speak directly to leaders including leaders who are more autocratic. things have changed in the last four years. things have changed especially with china. marco rubio is the secretary of state and a big china hawk. you will see a lot of aggressiveness for china. obviously with tariffs, you will see trade become a front for a power struggle. a trade war of sorts. but i think, one thing that he certainly promised is to figure out the situation in ukraine.

and i think people, again, are going to take him at his word and hope that is something that he will deliver on. host: let's hear from kurt in mount union, pennsylvania on the line for independents. caller: i have a question for both of the panelists. do they think the democratic party concentrated to double much on the culture wars rather than the economic factors affecting americans? host: mark, i will let you take that one first. -- martha, i will let you take that one first. guest: sure. i think we need to advance a more detailed and bolder economic agenda. i think we have to get back to talking more about how we both create jobs and create wages and lower prices. we need to get back to the things people are most focused on in their daily lives. i think kurt brings up a good

point. it's about infosys and priority. we should be talking more about holding corporations accountable and how corporations are squeezing everyday people, either everyday workers or shoppers for every last dollar in order to get more money to shareholders and stock buybacks. we have to really get back to understanding that every day people, everyday americans are trying to figure out, in today's economy, how to live a good life, go on vacation, buy a new car. do things that people want to do here in the middle class. i think it's important that we advanced bigger ideas. we are more open to listening to people from around the country about how we, for example, advanced ideas like the right to repair act, where you do not

just have to buy a new electronic if your computer or tv breaks but you can get the part because big corporations are not providing the parts so we can fix our homes. kurt brings up a good point. it's important for us to prioritize the economy prices, wages, jobs in a different way going forward then we have in the past few years. guest: it was james cargill who had a piece in the new york times that said it wasn't always is about the economy and democrats got away from the and need to get back to it. martha pointed to a few very interesting policies and it's up to democrats to find a way to tell that story and present that agenda to the public. one of the problems they had was one of the big programs they passed was a $42 billion universal broadband program that

it took so long to get the money out that no people were connected. those kinds of frustrations, whether it is infrastructure projects or broadband projects, the democrats weren't able to find a cohesive economic message. and inflation just ate them up the way it has eaten up incumbents across the world. getting back to that end who will look out for the middle class will be the big question for the next 2-4 years. yes, there are absolutely people who believe too much time was spent on cultural issues. but, remember that a lot of times, you are trying to turn out your base. if you think your voters are motivated by these issues, that's the issues you will turn to. and economy was the biggest motivator. host: francis is on the line

for democrats. good morning. caller: hi. can you hear me? host: yes. go ahead. caller: i want to respond to mckenna, who is a democrat. i don't think we need to make any apologies about our decisions on wanting to be fair in this country. i think the republican party has been in position to take advantage of the levels of bigotry in this country. it's embarrassing that this gem and sits here and tells the american people we focused on culture wars. culture wars represent freedom. read the constitution. i am nauseated at the level of ignorance of people in this country. you want to do something? you want to change the trajectory of this country, you think i'm worried about trump? i am worried about smart people in china. that's your enemy.

this is my last day watching c-span. i am disgusted at the men calling in. they sound completely -- host: francis, your line is breaking up. we will start with martha since she directed the main point at you. guest: francis brings up a good point that i would have returned to. i think she is right. you can call them culture war issues. i think what we are talking about is abortion rights which is very much an important part of what we need to fight in this country to return to american women. we need abortion rights in this country. not just in a checkerboard pattern across the state. it is an economic issue, whether or not women can control their reproductive freedom, whether they decide they will be a mom or not. francis brings up a good point. i think even though the issue of abortion was sidelined in the previous question of hers about being a culture war issue, it's

not a culture were issue for american women. who understand that, frankly, starting a family is one of the biggest economic questions you can answer as an adult in america. whether or not you can afford to become parents, whether or not you can afford to grow your family, whether or not you are in a situation where you are ready to make decisions about your family's economic future, your family's future from a housing perspective, from schooling, childcare, there are so many questions you have to answer when you're thinking about becoming a parent. and if you do not have the chance or the right to seek an abortion where you live, that's incredibly limiting. and it is wrong. and i believe francis is right that we should be fighting for freedom. and i think the fact that abortion was a major topic of conversation in this last presidential and congressional senate campaign was good for democrats and good for the country.

we have to continue to talk about abortion rights. the truth of it is while republicans have a trifecta and they did win the popular vote for trump, it was a close election. a handful of votes across a handful of states and this would have gone the other way. i'm not willing to throw out the fight for freedom, for economic freedom and for civil rights and for justice, wholesale. i do think we need to do more to talk about kitchen table issues for american people. but i agree with francis that we should continue to talk about freedoms and justice and i believe that abortion rights are part of that agenda. host: mike, do you have any follow-up thoughts on francis's points? guest: i hope francis will continue to watch c-span. i think absolutely, democrats made abortion a focus in this election. trump tried to navigate around the and said it should be a states issue. we saw ivf become an issue and we have yet to see how that plays out with how trump made

promises to protect ivf and expand access to it which i think would be a good thing. what is a culture issue is important because what we are getting at is what are the priorities of the country? if democrats had won, we would be sitting here and saying different issues were the priority. as it turns, it was the economy and immigration at the border and energy to an extent. that's what i think the new government and the trifecta will be focused on. i think it, obviously sometimes we put labels on these things that are overly broad, but i think it is a good discussion to have. i don't think it speaks to anyone's ignorance or anything like that. host: you mentioned what issues are most important. gallup has been pulling on how americans view a second trump administration. will they or will they not be able to accomplish certain tasks in getting different ratings for different things.

58% of americans think the next trump administration will do a good job controlling illegal immigration. 60% think they will do a good job reducing unemployment, keeping the united states safe from terrorism. 58% believed the incoming administration will do a good job improving the economy. a bit more detail on that from gallup. are more americans now than in 2016 believe -- far more americans now than in 2016 believe the trump administration will keep america out of war. by contrast, in 2016, the majority doubted he would keep the country out of war. this shift likely reflects trump's claims that the russia and israel-hamas wars would not have occurred if he were in office. let's go to karen in illinois on the line from republicans. good morning.

caller: good morning. host: what's your question? caller: yes, my question is i've been on google and i've been trying to find out if president biden has signed the fairness act yet or is that to be signed tomorrow? that is my main question. host: you are referring to the social security fairness act? caller: yes. host: i'm checking right now. i believe it might be tomorrow but i am double checking for you. was there another question you had for our panelist in the meantime? caller: yes. if he doesn't sign it, i am a retired teacher. and so, if he doesn't sign it, will we have to start the process all over again in 2025? host: karen, before i let our guests respond, i will give the audience more information about what we are talking about. according to this article on cbs

news, this is set to be signed on monday. president biden on monday is expected to sign into law legislation extending full social security benefits to nearly 3 million u.s. retirees. decades in the making, social security and fairness act would eliminate two federal policies that prevent firefighters, teachers and others from collecting their full social security benefits. that is the legislation that karen is referencing and it is excited president biden will sign that on monday. did you have any thoughts on that? -- expecting resident biden to sign that on monday. did you have any thoughts on that? guest: they don't get any pension but they should. we will have more on the future of these programs and their effect on the federal budget.

president trump also wants to protect these programs and protect these benefits. so, it is certainly a good outcome. they would have had to start all over again. host: martha, any thoughts on this legislation before we move on? guest: it's a good piece of legislation. as mike said, it probably doesn't get as much attention as it deserves. i think it is important that we, as democrats, we do need to finish as much of the business that we started before the inauguration is possible -- as possible. it sounds like biden is working hard on multiple fronts. some that have bipartisan support and some that are more part of the democratic agenda. this is a good piece of legislation to get signed. and hopefully it is some economic relief to people who have really done a great deal of public service in this country. teachers, firefighters, law enforcement. these are folks who deserve that . host: ok.

luis is in salsberry, north carolina on the line for democrats. good morning. caller: top of the morning. i'm listening to the panel. the general and makes it seem as though we are in some type of procession or war. the interest rates are high. but look, i thought through this holiday that there was record-breaking people traveling . planes, cars. people just buying food. i haven't heard anything about no eggs. i haven't heard anything about no gas. i want to know about this. we talk about -- to china. elon musk said don't deal with that. what was in that deal? it was concerning. -- it was concerning arms.

money for farmers, which trump caused that problem. we had something else in their that was concerning about the chip to tesla. tesla has a building or a factory in china. he did not want that to be blocked so he put a roadblock on the democrats and the american people that we still have to deal with china. but, they talk about china is an enemy. host: you are raising a bunch of points. i want to give our guests a chance to respond to them. mike, do you have any thoughts? guest: one of the dangers of these big bills, especially as they come at the end before christmas, things are on there that you don't discover until days or weeks later. we are only at the beginning of this debate about how much influence elon musk has and how

much of a say or how much sway he will have in legislation. i think that, you know, he owns a huge platform where he is able to reach a lot of people on a daily basis. an hourly basis, or even a minute by minute basis based on what he posts. i think that will continue and i don't think anybody should be under any illusions otherwise. that is his right. he has a cottage at mar-a-lago. he will be very close to the president. he will be very involved. i think that is something that people should absolutely keep an eye on. to respond to the first point, i think that yes, there are good signs in the economy. there is also the fact that people have record credit card debt and their paycheck does not go as far as they like. you can use numbers and throw a lot of stats at people. by and large, people do not feel

good about where things are in the cost of things. we have to do something about that. i think people are going to look for good results from this administration. host: robison michigan on the line for independents. -- rob is in michigan on the line for independents. morning. -- good morning. caller: you see the congress and the president work together, that is both parties to achieve a balanced budget. one way to do that is to pass a budget. the second is to give the president the let the authority to make the cuts as he sees appropriate. i would like to see the president direct his cabinet members to cut their spending.

that would reduce it to where we do have a balanced budget. executive order -- i would like to hear the visitors comment on the viability. host: martha, why don't you go first? guest: sure, i will go back to lewis's question as well. i think these questions go together. i think we are headed into a very k arctic -- chaotic period of time. at the top of the hour, we talked about how you have speaker johnson and the house freedom caucus putting pressure on him. you have democrats as well playing a role. we touched on elon musk and his influence, both on president trump and on the congress, as he communicates about what he wants to see in specific legislations. he can put the brakes on things and move things forward. i think tariffs could cause a great deal of stress and chaos

in the economy. i think that this push and pull of what silicon valley and the tech industry wants versus what the freedom caucus wants, i think to rob's point here about the balanced budget, it's going to be very difficult to balance all of these competing interests about what people with power in the republican party want to see in spending bills, in cutting the government, finding government efficiencies. i think that pressure and the amount of power that is distributive among different groups of people could cause a great deal of chaos as trump looks to put forward his agenda which we all know includes tariffs. that, in my mind, i think that it is going to be difficult for president trump to meet the expectations of the american people to the polling that you pointed out throughout this hour. 60 percent of people think that he will bring prices down and

bring stability to the world. and also, grow jobs and the economy. that is an awful high level of expectations that people have for what president trump can deliver, at a time where he has a lot of different interests both in his ear but also going straight to twitter and making cases for the american people and insiders to make decisions. the important thing is not how people think trump will do now but a year from now, how people think trump has done. that will be a hard level to meet. i think the expectations are incredibly high. i think the way he takes advice from people and the way the republican party is splintered, we are headed into a time for it will be maximum chaos. i do not think a balanced budget will be part of their agenda. i think that republicans only talk about the debt and balanced budgets when democrats are in

charge. we will see that national debt increased when president trump was in last time. i thing it is a big part of what we will see going forward as they try to balance meeting the expectations and the needs of the american people with all of the promises that they have made and the hike citations of them. -- hi expectations of them. host: i want to just remind everyone of the numbers that we are dealing with in the house and senate and how close those numbers are. that is 219 the publicans, 200 15 democrats and one vacant seat because matt gaetz resigned in november, moving over to the senate. -- in november. moving over to the senate, 55 republicans, 45 democrats and two independents. we have some big tech policies

coming down the pipeline this congress. guest: the tax cuts and jobs act which we enacted in 2017. much of it comes up for expiration at the end of this year. if we don't extend it, taxes will go up for a lot of people by quite a bit. and so, this relates to rob's point because a big part of the debate will be whether congress and the government needs to pay for those tax cuts. and pay for the potential revenue losses. a big debate is a big chunk of people think tax cuts pay for themselves because they generate growth. and then there is another group that says you have to pay for this. the bottom line looks good and the budget. in the last congress, house republicans went on record voting for and paying for some of their tax relief. that was a big shift from what has happened in the past.

the debt was in the mid $35 million -- $35 trillion to $36 trillion. the tax, martha is right. i think you will hear more of a discussion of being on a path to a balanced budget. i will put the word path in there. the tax debate and how we extend these tax cuts is where you will see the fiscal argument. there is talk about doge. republicans always want to plus up and spend more on defense. if you are out there and watching and a big fiscal opp, the tax debate is where we will see this play out. host: i have heard some republicans talking about dynamic scoring a lot more. can you talk about that? guest: basically, there is a school of thought that if you

extend current tax policies, not new policy, it doesn't count. it doesn't exist, basically. it doesn't count against your future debt or deficits. if you could wave a wand and do it that way and make it look good, the reality is the money is there. so, a lot of this debate will get very weedy between congressional budget office scoring and dynamic scoring. because we are just extending current policy, we don't need to worry about its impacts on fiscal. host: which changes the price tag of potentially extending the tax cuts from something like $4 trillion to 52 in dollars to something as low as zero dollars -- $5 trillion to something as low as zero dollars. anthony is on the line for

democrats. good morning. caller: good morning. can you hear me? host: yes. we can hear you. what's your question? caller: mr. ricci and mr. mckenna, donald trump ran on a racist white supremacist platform. that is what he is and what he does. why do white americans fail to talk openly, and honestly about race in america? this is about race and race only. c-span, you are charged with telling the truth. but if you are not going to tell the truth, i'm not going to watch anymore. please, tell the truth. why do white americans fail to talk openly, honestly and directly about race in america, which is about race. host: ok. i've got your idea fit let's let our guests respond. martha? guest: thanks for the call from

baltimore. i think you are right. i think that white americans should do more. white people have to do more in speaking out about it. i'm glad you brought it up. i'm glad you put us on the spot about it. i think that it is sad and scary and sometimes sickening what you hear from donald trump, particularly in these rallies across the country during the campaign. and then to have the election result be what it was, it was, in many ways, he went after black people, minorities, women. and disabled people. it is hard, it's hard to accept that the american people gave him the popular vote after being so misogynistic and racist. and it is really difficult. i think you are right. i think we have a response ability. white people have a responsibility to speak up against racism when we hear it and see it.

and we should do more. i think it is an important conversation to have. i think you are right. some of the things that were said during the course of the campaign by trump and his surrogates were extremely upsetting and very wrong. host: mike? guest: of course, we have a response ability to speak out against racism and is from a nation in all of its forms. there are things said in the heat of the campaign that you can't dismiss because they are said in the heat of a campaign. as martha alluded to, but again, black and hispanic voters shifted to the right and trumps direction as did every stage shifted to the right. why did that happen? why did his message resonate with people, that is something we need to figure out. i appreciate the call. i think it is a valid point to make. host: this question in the

polling of voters across racial and ethnic backgrounds sing the economy was the top issue. he's arguing it's about race given some of the rhetoric trump used in the campaign trail paper what's your take on that? -- trail. what's your take on that? guest: we have seen it across the world. americans followed that trend. yes, things get said and that is certainly part of it. a lot of this was the impact of inflation and the economy. you could argue that we were following that global trend. i don't know why the united states would be the outlier. host: jerry is in virginia on the line for republicans. good morning, jerry. caller: good morning. i'd like to speak about these people concerned about elon musk influencing.

he bought twitter, knowing he would lose his money. he made $44 billion. he knew he was probably going to lose worth. he did it to return free speech to u.s. citizens. a couple billion dollars here and there does not mean anything to elon musk. he is for america. host: ok. mike, did you have any thoughts on that? guest: i think jerry's sentiments are a great reflection of what a lot of house republican -- i think that as much as we will be examining his level of influence and the policies he supports, a lot of that will be inside baseball compared to people who are way full to him

for protecting free speech and shaking up our institution. he's getting involved in european politics. with things going on in germany. the scale of influence is only beginning to expand. what jerry is saying is how a lot of people feel, that he has done a lot to restore free speech in this country. host: michelle is in whittier, california on the line for democrats. good morning. hi, michelle. go ahead with your question. all right. in the meantime, let's go to robin in old forge, pennsylvania on the line for republicans. good morning, robin. caller: good morning and happy new year's to everybody. this last call from this last one talking about race. first of all, that's why donald trump is in the office right now. the american people are sick of the race.

sick of saying latinos -- democrats separate everybody. the republicans are not racist and have never been racist. this is why donald trump became president. we are sick of this stuff already. enough is enough. host: martha, would you like to respond to robin's point? guest: i disagree with robin. i think that we are stronger when we represent -- when our government represents all of us. a representative democracy is important for the fact that -- we need women, we need black leaders. we need latino leaders. our representative democracy speaks for all of the people and not just white men. and frankly, i think that is something that is important for the health of our country, that

our leaders reflect our communities. as a state legislature and congress, we should have people running from the communities that are representative of the neighborhood where they live. to me, i think that extends to positions of power across our society and across our economy. i would like to see more racial diversity. more women in power. i just fundamentally believe that people have really good ideas, based on the lives they have lived. and those good ideas deserve to be heard in the public square, both in politics and the economy and society across the board in civic life. i think that that is where we are headed in the long run, as a country. and i think that is a good thing. it is my hope that in the next round of elections that democrats are able to recruit

more firefighters and law enforcement, teachers, factory workers, people from the service academy. i think we should be recruiting more candidates from the middle-class who represent their communities. and that should include racial minorities and women as often as possible. that's an important step forward in our country. host: we have a question via text from rich in kingsport, tennessee, who said last time martha was on, she mentioned project 2025 multiple times. what happened to that in the hitler's rhetoric? asking for 70 million people. guest: i do think project 2025 is going to be -- will continue to be a guiding document for the trump administration. i think that we will see many of the ideas that are in project 2025 come forward in legislative

form in the next number of months. and that will be very important for democrats to, you know, look for where we can work together but stand up against ideas that are detrimental. many of the ideas in project 2025, this document covered ideas on how we can change the economy. how we can tack on social security and medicare. there is a lot on programs and policies that american people rely on and sometimes take for granted. if we go six months from now and compare the ideas that have come forward in legislative or executive orders with the ideas of project 25, we will see a lot of overlap. i do not think that is a good thing. i think it is important that we hold republicans accountable. the reason we are not talking about project 2025 as much anymore is because now

republicans have that trifecta and we can talk about the legislative ideas that they are coming forward with. we saw the spending bill conversation that happened just before the holidays. we will see it here and moving forward on this budget, on the border. on taxes and immigration. now, they will put their ideas into action and democrats will have to dissect those pieces of legislation and figure out what we agree on and what we need to stand up against. host: mike, during the campaign, president distanced himself from project 2025 and now we are seeing several people who participated in that project he suggested or even nominated for physicians in the ministration. what role do you think project 2025's policies will play in his second term? guest: i think the people involved in it will want to push for those ideas. trump likes it that way. he wants people, a team of

rivals pushing for their ideas. how many of those things make it through the policy process and go through congress is another question. but yeah, it shouldn't surprise anybody that project 2025, you know, a lot of times these groups put together plans and ideas and the people behind them push for them. and they end up being at the table because a plan with no plan is what we say sometimes in washington. we will see people on tv pushing for those things. on social media. how many of them make it to the light of day i think is another question. i want to make sure we recognize the second point about rhetoric and things said in the heat of the campaign. democrats were pushing a hitler's rhetoric about trump in mid-october. it was so jarring that president

biden welcomed president trump to the oval office, recognizing the transition of power. i think there was a lot of backlash against democrats. kamala harris gave that big speech with the white house behind her. one of the things democrats will have to do a lot of soul-searching about is if they did to double much focus on the january 6 messaging -- did too much focus on the january 6 messaging and the hitler messaging. host: the headline, how trump flipped the script and made january 6 an asset, transforming the crime scene into a platform for conspiracy theories. good morning, frank. caller: thank you for taking my call. are you there?

host: we are here. go ahead. very quickly, if you don't mind. we are just about out of time. caller: what i'm curious about is the promises he has made pre-election. how many will he fail on and will the american people over one year hold him accountable and not accept his lies or any excuses or lay the blame on biden or any party in particular? my next question, let me see here, that's pre-much it. thank you. host: very quickly, i will let mike respond first and then martha. guest: of easley, we have an election in 20 -- obviously, we have an election in 2026. democrats will be focused on taking back the house given how close it is and they

will be focused on making hakeem jeffries speaker of the house. there is a 12-15 month sprint for the trumpet ministration to get their agenda through. as closely divided as we are in this country, the pendulum keeps swinging back and forth from one party to the other. we always talk about mandates and realignments. we hope this -- each party hopes this is the beginning of a new political era. a victory of dominance for their party. the pendulum can swing back very quickly. i think republik and leaders need to be conscious of that, no question. -- republican leaders need to be conscious of that, no question. guest: there isn't anyone for president trump and republicans to blame over the next two years because they have the house, senate and white house. the expectations are very high that they will be able to deliver on their promises of lower prices, more jobs, more prosperity, peace in the world. they have gone pretty far in making promises to the american

people. and with full control, they have to deliver. that's going to be very challenging. i think mike is right. democrats will focus on winning the house and winning the house back. that's an important piece of this puzzle, that there should be some balance of power here. democrats will fight to get hakeem jeffries to be the speaker, to put democratic ideas more into the mix if we do have a we have a majority of 2026. it is a long road to get there. i think we are headed for two years where we have much more republican infighting and republicans blaming each other for why some thing didn't get done that they can blame democrats. because we just don't have the power to stop them in any real way as we have when we have divided government. you will see the fight between the silicon valley types, elon musk and more establishment republicans. the freedom caucus asserting itself within the house caucus. i think we are heade for a period of time when the onus is

on the republicans to get things done and i'm thinking the pressure will be on them to deliver these unbelievable promises. >> we will have to leave it there for today. democratic strategist martha mckenna and republican strategist mike. thank you both. thanks to everybody who called in with your questions. up next we will get a bit of a one-on-one briefing on the h-1b visa program with david of the cato institute. we will be right back. ♪ >> weekends bring you book tv featuring leading authors is cussing their latest nonfiction books. here's a look at what's coming up this weekend.

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host: welcome back we are joined now by the immigration studies director at the cato institute. welcome to washington journal. thank you so much for joining us. before we get into our conversation, a caller was asking about the social security fairness act and i wanted to follow-up we had said that would be assigned tomorrow. it actually looks like the act will be signed later today at about 4:00 eastern. we will be covering that live on c-span. so just following up from previous points in the previous hour. the are here with you to talk about immigration and in particular h-1b visas. would you been in the news quite a bit because some dispute in the republican party. what is an h-1b visa. guest: it is a guestworker visa, a temporary allowing skilled

will former -- skilled workers in the united states temporarily. it's initially valid for three years, to be renewed once but if you're sponsored for a green card or permanent residence status in the united states you can extend it indefinitely until you are able to obtain a green card through the green card process. that is really the main gateway for skilled foreign workers to get a foot in the door into the u.s. labor market and start their careers in the united states. host: how do somebody qualify for one of these visas and how long does that process take get it? guest: you have to have a bachelors degree in a specialty field. you have to be paid the prevailing wage for your area. your occupation and your skill level. host: in the united states. guest: and the employer has to

pay $15,000 in legal fees either to the government or to attorneys to file the application on your behalf. and then, if you look at there is a cap. there's 85,000 visas made available -- mainly to for-profit companies and they have to enter a lottery each year at least for the last decade there's been a lot of reasons the demand exceeded the 85,000 number. even before the start of the fiscal year the demand exceeded. and so much so only about 20% of the applicants actually receive an h-1b visa through the lottery. host: these are people who are qualified and entered the process. what kinds of immigrants and nationalities and industries in the united states rely on this program? guest: if you look at the nationalities of the people who are applying, it's about 56% are

indians, people from india. then you have chinese at 14%, that's about -- then all the other nationalities are much smaller percentages. about 30% of the total or other countries. if you look at the industries and occupations they are doing it's about 80% in computer, math and engineering. that's what these workers are overwhelmingly doing in the united states. that's where you will see the biggest focus of employment and discussion about what their effects are in the labor market. host: for a bit more information about these visas, you mentioned 85,000 of those visas. 65,000 of those are just sort of the regular ones with another 20,000 limited to applicants with graduate degrees. you are talking of a pretty highly skilled workers here. >> you look at the

qualifications overall about 70% end up with a masters degree so 20,000 are guaranteed to have a masters degree and the rest are 50-50 have a masters versus not. if you have a masters degree you are really increasing your odds of winning the lottery and getting through the process by going on and getting a higher education and many of the people who come in, start out as international students at u.s. universities, majority of the people who get the visa are actually already in the united states and have graduated from a u.s. university and are looking to stay on for the company that hired them out of grad school. and so that sort of the profit we see, many foreign students go through. and if they can win the lottery than many of them go back to school and get a masters, and then get a few more chances to

win the lottery and hopefully stay in the united states long term. >> is there a path to citizenship involved with the visa? >> there is an envisioned process by which the visa can adjust the status or green card companies have to sponsor the workers so they are sponsored to be on the visa and then there sponsored again to get a green card and that's a very costly and expensive process for employers to go through as well. so if you look at it only about half of the h-1b visas end up getting sponsored for a green card and like i said they can continue on in their h-1b status indefinitely until they are able to obtain a green card under the green card process. if you look at the green card process it is highly

restrictive, so you have about 140,000 visas made available to employer sponsors and immigrants of all types. so it's not just people outside the u.s.. it's people and other statuses, it's international students adjusting. all go through this number. but half of those 140,000 go to spouses and minor children of the workers themselves. actually really an effective cap of about 70,000 which is less than the h-1b issues annually. so you end up with a big backlog in this process of about 1.5 million immigrants are waiting for employees sponsored green cards. purely because the cap is too low compared to the demand. you end up with this big backlog. it's not all nationalities being treated equally within the green card so i mentioned indians are

by far the most common recipients of the h-1b visa over half of the applicants are indian applicants. but if you look at how a green card process works, only 7% can go to any single nationality. so it ends up happening is indians a 50% of the applicants they only get 7% of the green cards and they end up being 90% of the people waiting in the backlog. so that's why you see so many indian residents, indian h-1b holders in the united states renewing and being a focus of the conversation not just because they are such a high percentage of the total applicants because they are stuck in the h-1b status really indefinitely. right now we are processing people who apply for their green card 2012 if they are from india. other countries it is 2023.

that is a huge disparity between what the process looks like if you are from india versus all other countries because of this cap situation. so looking forward we are processing people who applied in 2012 but there is this huge 1.4 million backlog that is developed since then mainly from india. if you look forward we will have about a century wait for new indian applicants so basically if you're from india and you're applying for a green card today you are likely never to get a green card through unless there is some reform to the process. host: one of the reasons this is in the news recently is because of discussions happening amongst members of the republican party as well as new advisers to president-elect trump pointing to a post here from elon musk, who says the reason i am in america along with some any

critical people who built spacex, tesla, and hundreds of other companies that made america strong is because of h-1b. can you talk about why elon musk finds himself kind of opposed to some other republicans on this issue. guest: when you look at his story. he came as international student and then got -- started a company and went on to h-1b. there is a little bit of a gap in his status there that the washington post has reported on. host: the post reported he overstayed his visa. guest: right, well he didn't actually go to school, he just started a company which is and what he was supposed to be doing. then he was get -- able to get on h-1b when he started the company and the company sponsored him for the visa. that's his process he went through. many other founders of companies, you look at 55% of

the billion dollars startups in the united states were founded by immigrants. and if you look at artificial intelligence companies, 65% of those companies were started -- and when he's talking about critical positions. ceos and other -- cto's, chief technology officers. these positions overwhelmingly filled by immigrants, skilled immigrant workers. 80% of these billion dollars startups had at least one immigrant in one of these positions within their company. so, extremely important to these -- the growth of these types of companies. >> why are some republicans opposed to this program? >> really is because of the messaging they see from the america first maga movement in the united states about we have

to put u.s. workers first and the only policy should be that americans do all of the jobs in the economy and that any job that goes to a foreign worker then takes away from a job for an american worker and that's not really how it works. it's not just their founding companies which are obviously employing huge numbers of americans through that process, if a worker comes in, they create value for the country. they produce something of value and then they spend their earnings in the united states and that creates jobs for americans in other positions in other areas and even if you look within the text fields that have been so inundated with h-1b, if you look at the jobs u.s. workers are doing, they tend to move up in the management positions while they are managing the h-1b labor force that's coming in and more of the entry-level jobs in that industry. host: we will be taking your

questions about the h-1b visa program and high skilled immigration. number for democrats, 202-748-8000. republicans, 202-748-8001. independents at 202-748-8002. in addition to some republican pushback against the h-1b visa program there is also some -- i shouldn't say across the aisle, but from independent senator bernie sanders who said elon musk is wrong. the main function of the h-1b visa program is not to hire "the best and the brightest, but rather to replace good paying american jobs with low wage servants from abroad. the cheaper labor they higher, the more money the billionaires make. your thoughts on that as well. guest: they are not indentured. they're obvious the highly paid workers. you look at their median income

or median wage for an h-1b worker is about $120,000 a year. this is the 90th percentile. they are higher paid than about 90% of workers in the united states. and so it's inaccurate to call them low-wage. if the purpose of the visa was to cut labor costs and replace american workers, you would see the h-1b request increase when unemployment goes up. we see the opposite braid h-1b requests go down when unemployment increases. in 2009 and 2010 there wasn't even a lottery to allocate the visas because demand went way down during the great recession. it increased again after that as unemployment went away and demand for workers increased. the other thing you would see is it's all about low-wage workers

and the h-1b would be plate -- paid less compared to u.s. workers. we don't see that either. in fact we see generally paid more than comparable u.s. workers at the same level of education and experience. in their field preyed on the last thing you would see is they would be paid the exact mandatory minimum so there's a mandatory minimum wage, a prevailing wage based on u.s. worker wages and if you look at what they are actually paying, they are paying higher wages than the mandatory minimum which means they are actually paying something based on what they negotiated. the workers themselves agreed to , not just whatever the government mandated. so i don't see it as a replacement for, it's a complement to american workers and it increases the opportunities for americans both within tech and outside of tech. so if you're talking about the

top 10% of earners coming into these jobs and increasing employment at the high-end, what are they doing. they are spending their income in the united states and that is increasing employment and demand for workers and the rest of the economy. 90% benefit by having more workers in that top 10% category. i see it as a benefit to u.s. workers, not something that will harm them or take jobs away from them. host: the federation for american immigration reform, a group pretty close to the incoming white house deputy chief of staff stephen miller, who also had a pretty strong role in the first trump administration. this group has proposed a series of reforms to the h-1b visa program in particular. number one, prevent employers from paying h-1b visa workers less than americans in the same role, reward applicants who

earned a masters degree or higher from an american university. require employers to demonstrate that they sought america workers positions to qualified ones before turning to h-1b workers, something similar to the other - implement more effective enforcement mechanisms and increase investigations including random audits and then the h-1b guest worker program would be for temporary workers and should not be a pathway to citizenship. what do you think of some of those supposed rules? guest: overall it's objectionable because it's all about increasing the restrictions on the visas. i mentioned they're already required to be paid the prevailing wage which is based on what u.s. workers are paid for the same positions, controlling for skills and locations and all the rest. so most of it is unnecessary. you already reward masters

degree, we talked about that with the lottery. the last one is the most dangerous proposal, making the h-1b -- essentially forcing out skilled workers after they've come in and been working in the united states and contributing to companies. and then they want to branch out. they want to go on with their lives and get promotions and move on to more productive positions. that would be extremely dangerous. we talk about all the companies that have been formed and founded, plenty of critical -- playing a critical role as the cto or ceo, that would be extremely dangerous to the u.s. economy if we adopted that proposal. >> let's get your question about the program. starting with diane in sun city center on our line for republicans. can you turn down the volume on

your tv and then go ahead. thank you. >> thank you. are the sponsors responsible for the indians that are at our colleges causing these problems? host: which problems are you referencing? >> the flags outside from different countries other than the united states. >> just to back up the h-1b visa is only for people who are employer-sponsored, they are not for college students. they have a different process where the college is the sponsor for that type of visa. so it wouldn't be responsible for anything that's happening on a college campus. >> let's go to marshall in park ridge illinois on our line for independence. good morning. host: thank you for having this

topic. i'm calling because i feel strongly that the -- i think this is the next area of american jobs that are about to be shipped not offshore, but we are bringing the people here. i worked as an administrator at several medical centers in the chicago area and witnessed first-hand, we brought in some really wonderful individuals, very talented individuals from india and china and contrary to what your guest is saying, they weren't being paid prevailing wage. they were being paid at a level that was akin to a graduate student. but i think for them just having the chance to be in america and bring their families up in america was just a golden ticket. and so they weren't being paid 100 20,000, $150,000. we were being paid more like $30,000. a business something that

solicited, the president and his advisers allow this to go through, this will be a detriment to all the american people out there, particular the mbas that are getting $100,000 in debt only to find their now competing with individuals who got their credentials overseas and are now here intentionally working for $30,000. so i thank you for allowing me to speak. >> it's important to understand there are some different visa programs. so mainly if you are a postgrad doing postgraduate training you will be on the j one visa program which is a visa program for postgraduate training specifically, a different requirements, different rules. i don't know what wage data you are looking at, but they will be

paid what postgraduate are typically paid for those types of positions. if you look at the bulk of h-1b employment like i said its computer, math and engineering, 80% of this type of program. if you look at software developers in particular that's the most common occupational category. that category has doubled in employment over the last decade. so we've had 100% increase growth in that category and all of that increase two thirds of it comes from u.s. workers, one third from foreign workers. we seen an increase in the most common h-1b category and we've also seen a huge increase in u.s. worker employment in that category. i don't see displacement, i see complementary between the two. u.s. workers and foreign workers

are both entering the same category where there is such great demand. >> one of the more outspoken folks opposing the h-1b visa program is former trump advisor stephen k bannon who accused the tech companies supporting the program of doing so at the expense of american workers. there is a clip of him on tuesday on his podcast. [video clip] >> here you've gone to engineering school, they are going to import on a bald-faced lie, a high skilled foreign workers. the skills are not any different than american citizens. don't sit there and lie, you can fill those spots per you go out of your way to gun deck the entire thing so you can do that because they are more compliant trade the reason they have to be compliant in 21st-century america we have indentured servitude? as much as that was a scar on

the country in the 19th century and we are doing it here. in front of your eyes and we have billionaires that are worth a fortune they will sit there and look at you, you are a liar. show enough respect for the citizens of this country to just be honest. let's have a debate. you want lower wages, i understand that. it's not going to happen but i understand it. >> the counterargument from another trump advisor, vivek ramaswamy who is set up to potentially be part of the commission who said the reason top tech companies often hire foreign-born and first-generation engineers over native americans isn't because of an innate american iq deficit , a lazy and wrong explanation. a key part of it comes down to culture. tough questions demand tough answers and we are really serious about fixing the problem we have to confront the truth. our american culture has many

dutch has venerated mediocrity over excellence for way too long at least since the 90's and likely longer. that does not starting college, it starts young. a culture that celebrates the prom queen over the math olympia champ or the jock over valedictorian will not produce the best engineers. two very different thoughts on this program on the h-1b visa program. what should americans take from this. guest: i don't really agree with either one of those explanations for what's happening. like i said, the top fields for the h-1b visa is software developers. and we've seen two thirds of the increase over the last decade have come from u.s. workers so u.s. workers are entering this field but we still have a huge amount of demand for these types of jobs and so i don't see it as u.s. workers just totally not willing to do this type of work

and i don't see it as a job displacement story either. i really see it as there is a huge demand for these types of services in the united states. it's a benefit to us as americans if we let people work here because they produce goods and services for us. that is the purpose of the economy is to create goods and services that benefit us all. so if we restrict the visa or forget about h-1b or foreign workers, just u.s. workers in general. if we had a reduction in our labor force than that is going to cost us because we have enough goods and services produced that benefit consumers and ultimately increase our living standards. >> this is in bar harbor maine on our line for democrats. good morning. >> thank you very much. i have two points. the first is i think they should be aware that the cato institute used to be known as the charles koch foundation and its essentially libertarian and for

the privatization of just about everything. so that's one thing. the other thing is interesting to see bernie sanders and steve bannon both use the word indentured. but what i would like to say is these workers are dependent on their employers for staying in this country. and whatever their salaries may be, the corporate culture may be one of fealty and one of compliance and one that is less critical. and i think particularly in fields of technology that critical thinking and debate of empirical evidence is very important so that having a workforce dominated by people on these visas might lead to less efficient and less effective technology sector would be

terrible. something like the schedule f that's being proposed by russell vote. >> you've raised a couple of interesting points i want to make sure our guests can respond. >> the cato institute has been the cato institute for our entire existence. we've never been the charles koch foundation or institute. charles koch was one of our founders, so obviously there is a connection there, a member of our board or is a member of our board but that's not an accurate description of our history. in terms of the issue of dependency on the employer. they are not indentured, they can change jobs. about half of all the workers who are starting a new job, of the new employment in the united states were people who transferred from another h-1b employer. so you can transfer. it is more difficult and that is

an issue that i completely agree with. that's why we need to speed up the process for people to get green cards. people don't mind they are thankful for their employer who sponsored them. and have their career put on hold indefinitely. so yes they should speed up the process for them to get green cards and make sure that they are on an even playing field with u.s. workers. >> speaking of the changes and potential changes to the h-1b visa program. the hill has an article talking about how during the biden administration stories from back in september, dhs overhauled the h-1b visa program with the biden administration announcing rule in mid-december clarifying who can apply for h-1b work visa, that program to attract international talent that's been criticized as too complicated and susceptible to abuse. the new rule expands the definition of specialty occupation positions and the

requirements for nonprofit and governmental resource organizations to foster h-1b visas saying that the h-1b visa program is created by congress in 1990 and there's no question it needed to be modernized to support our nation's growing economy. the changes followed years of lobbying for more streamlined h-1b the workforce of labor related visas. back to your calls, john is in greenville, wisconsin on our line for independence per good morning. >> i am an engineer. i've been an engineer for a long time. mostly in software and software testing and software production. so i've seen this firsthand. h-1b program is to lower the pay rates, and often times h-1b people are not necessarily

trained in engineers in india or china. they have some other educational backgrounds and they simply get code academy or some quick training to get some training that's company wise. and can hire them cheaper. so my other question is -- or my question is if this program is so wonderful why hasn't it ever been applied to accountants, lawyers, directors of the cato institute, ceo's, those who often benefit from the same labor force that's overseas. there are ceo's in japan. there are directors in japan, china, in the other could be directors of the cato institute. that's my question. >> it's interesting you raise that point. there is an even easier process called the l1 visa if you are an executive of a business that's a multinational corporation you can bring your executives over

from a foreign branch easily. but as far as research nonprofits at the cato institute we are exempt from the cap so the cato institute can and all other research nonprofits can hire through the h-1b program if they have a position that needs qualifications for the h-1b visa. so i personally and competing with anyone who qualifies for an h-1b visa for my job. >> richard is in broken arrow, oklahoma on our line for republicans. good morning richard. >> this may not be perfectly organized but i will try anyway. i'm a longtime engineer also, more of a chemical engineer. and 1976 i was the first of my family to go to college and went

and got a degree in chemical engineering and was able to pursue a career in that field. fast forward to today, i am still teaching a two-year program and the process operators and every so often i run into kids who really ought to be an engineer because his math skills are better. my whole point is first year first-time college goers often times it's hard to get scholarships, it's hard to get a lot of things. it's hard to pay for the increased cost of college whereas a lot of these folks from foreign countries, for money and they have a lot of money. and they are able to pay for it and i guess my argument is it drives the cost of college up. so how does someone who the

first time they're going to college, how do they make it into the engineering world. i see a possible future where we are overloaded with people of h-1b visas. >> let's let david respond. >> so the international students with full tuition in most cases and actually subsidize the enrollment of other students, there been a number of different studies that look at international students in the relationship to the ability of universities to enroll more american students, we see enrollment increasing alongside decreases in enrollment of international students. for that reason and because actually international students allowing some of the smartest people from around the world to

enroll in these universities actually makes them more attractive places to study because you are doing the best science happening in the world here, the best research is happening here because we have the most competitive, most innovative workforce and student body in the world in stem fields. host: we are coming up next we will hear from monet in new york who is actually an h-1b visa holder themselves. good morning. host: i liked the last three callers you had from oklahoma and wisconsin. there was a guy before that. i forgot where he was from. everyone's making really great points and i'm just curious as

to why when we have these conversations that it's not across systems because this is really across systems problem. i have a background in education and i'm looking at the literacy in math test achievement rates for american students and it is so low. it is a real problem. critical thinking and applying on problem-solving skills is really poor compared to finland and a lot of western european countries that are little more developed. host: before we get david to respond, can you tell us a little bit about your experience going through the visa process? caller: it's just very hard. it's a lot of waiting. a lot of paperwork, a lot of

money to get just to the u.s. really. to be able to launch and then it's just like a nailbiting thing because i guess certain companies have more privilege? they must rank the company somehow. host: what industry do you work in? caller: education now, but it was information science before. guest: it's a great point. education is extremely important part of this whole equation. if we were producing twice as many peaks stem phd's we would just be catching up to the level of stem phd's that are graduating in china every year. so there is a huge disparity between the u.s. and many of our competitors and allies even in terms of production of stem graduates.

so it is a problem, it is one that is something that goes through the entire k-12 and college and university system and postgrad system. and so it is not an issue that i'm going to sit here and solve directly. i've just got to say when you have a fort detrick foreign workers who come in and contribute in these fields, it does make jobs for americans in those fields. that's when the basic misconceptions is that this is something that will displace american workers or limit the growth of the tech sector for u.s. workers. it is just the opposite. if you prevent foreign companies from hiring foreign workers in the united states, we've seen an increase off shoring because if you can hire the most talented people, they are -- you're just going to move your operation to a different country and we seen

that as a result of the h-1b cap and the decreases in availability of h-1b workers. companies just move their operations to india. microsoft opened offices in canada and elsewhere around the world and that's a serious problem. it is not going to be something that will be resolved in one or two years, but it will not be the case that h-1b visas are preventing u.s. workers from wanting to participate in this field. it is creating jobs for u.s. workers in these fields. host: thank you very much, david is the aggression studies director at the cato institute. appreciate your time and expertise this morning. coming up later on today, president biden is going to sign the bipartisan social security fairness act which is something that guarantees full social security for close to 3 million public service retirees. including folks in education as our previous caller works in. watch live from the white house today at 4:00 p.m. eastern on

c-span, c-span now our free mobile video app or online at c-span.org. coming up we will take more of your phone calls in open forum for it are numbers will be on the screen and you can start dialing in now. we will be right back. ♪ >> democracy unfiltered with c-span, experience history as it unfolds with c-span's live coverage this month. as her republicans take control of both chambers of commerce -- congress and a new swearing in of the 47th president of the united states. on monday watch live, watch vice president harris preside over the certification of the vote officially confirming donald trump as the winner of the 2024 presidential election.

on january 20, tune in for alive all day coverage of the presidential inauguration as donald trump takes the oath -- oath of office. stay with c-span this month for comprehensive live unfiltered coverage of the 119th congress and the presidential inauguration. c-span, democracy unfiltered. ♪ >> ryan mcclanahan has phd's from the university of south carolina in history. several years ago he wrote a book titled nine presidents who screwed up america and for who tried to save it. his view on the presidency is not the traditional one for most historians. on the back of his book, the liner notes claim the worst presidents are the ones who want to "reform" the country through the power of the federal government, which usually means usurping the power of congress

or the people. ryan mcclanahan focuses a negative spotlight on andrew jackson, abraham lincoln and barack obama and others. >> ryan mcclanahan with his book "nine presidents who screwed up america at four who tried to save her" on this episode of book notes. book notes is available on the c-span now free mobile app or wherever you get your podcast. ♪ >> washington journal continues. host: welcome back. we are in open forum ready to take your calls and your thoughts on public affairs events and topics of the day. our number for democrats, 202-748-8000. for republicans, 202-748-8001. for independents, 202-748-8002 --[captioning performed by the national captioning institute, --202-748-8003. we are following the situation in atlanta, georgia were former president jimmy carter is lying

in repose at the carter center and members of the public are lining up to view and visit his casket as you can see, live shots there on your screen now and that will be going on all day. that will be today and tomorrow and then on tuesday the carter family will be traveling to the u.s. capitol in washington where the former president will lie in state at the capitol rotunda and the public will be allowed to pay their respects then as well. now to your calls in open forum. joe is in st. clair, michigan on our line for independence. good morning. caller: is it too late to say happy new year? >> go for it. happy new year. i think one of the problems with the visa program, nobody wants to hire foreign workers in -- intentional but there's not

enough domestic workers because in schools we have ceased to promote math and science and we are not churning out engineers out of our colleges because we are loaning people money to take courses of studies like art history or certain music that is -- that is not allowed them to pay for their tuition suite created a bunch of different problems and what we need to do is promote courses of study that allow people to get in the jobs where they can support a family and can pay for their education. that's about it. host: charlene is in california on our line for democrats. how do you say the name of your town? go ahead. host: -- caller: good morning,

first of all i want to say mr. carter him rest in peace. it was a really good president, a good person, a good spiritual person. he showed through his character. what i wanted say also was that these visas it's a bad idea. what it does is eliminates people of color who have educated themselves in this country, they want to bring people in from places like india to replace african-americans. i think that's wrong. they are determined they are knocking to let the descendants of slaves stand up and pull themselves up by their bootstraps as they say. they always try to create ways to keep them down. i am a person of color. i am not an african-american but i am an american, i am a person of many colors. and so i know what this is all about. i think this is so wrong. they have allowed too many to come in now they want to come in

and take the jobs. this is a trick on americans. i'm telling everyone with education and those that are not , willing to work domestically to earn a living and support themselves and their families. watch out for foreign competition in this country. especially african-americans, watch out from people for -- from people from india because they don't have any respect because the americans who brought them here don't have respect for us. happy new year to everyone. host: dennis in wisconsin on our line for independence. caller: good morning. you know the terry gilliam film brazil is pretty much as it always has been and always will be. elon musk, the department of government efficiency, since

1992i have contracted i don't know how many agencies and my senator, oh my goodness, whose dad was a tobacco guy. style. since 92 i've read a story that 30% of social security phone bill is 800 phone calls on hold and it's got to be triple on that for irs. i had to deal with the irs four years ago, 50 minutes i timed them. i almost hung up on the first one i got through. and i told the woman who took my call, i called you five times and been on hold for 250 minutes. she goes you are one of the lucky ones. i made this information available to social security and style. the minute he walked into office.

800 calls automatically caller id. hit the star button. you are logged in, call back, a call coming back out. that 250 minutes, and 800 call is marked at a higher rate. that's 200 $50 in at&t's pocket. host: betty is in stevensville, michigan on our line for democrats, good morning betty. >> good morning and thank you for taking my call. i just wanted to add a little bit in regards to the h-1b program. about companies not cutting out american workers out of jobs. that's really highly debatable and questionable and there's a major company all the way from the west coast to the east coast they have laid out thousands or displaced thousands, i'm not sure which term to use. but across the united states,

these are highly paid tech jobs, so perhaps your speaker and c-span can look into that. i would like to hear some comment on that. host: unfortunately our speaker has left for the morning, i'm sure we will be circling back on the immigration topics on other days on washington journal. let's hear now from maria in mount vernon, new york on our line for independents. caller: i just wanted to say something about carter. i loved him so much. i remember him and i remember my mom and i just wanted to say that. i also want to say i need to give this lady from michigan kudos because she said exactly what i wanted to say. when we talked about the visas because you're talking about

their special visas coming over but they never told us what they were doing. why are they coming, where are they going to be working. we haven't heard anything about that and another thing. there are 40% of hubc colleges that have 40% of graduates with engineers. have they interviewed anyone? at least do that, you know? it's not like if they don't get the job or whatever but give them that opportunity. 40% of black colleges have graduated with engineering degrees. so why is that not being questioned? these are the things i want to know. even if it was 40% you just get three. give them a chance to interview these jobs.

but they are not doing that. that's just what i wanted to say. >> james is in philadelphia, pennsylvania on our line for democrats. host: thanks for take -- guest: maybe this is timely as well. one of your programs after this is resid and speaking about social security, >> is that true? >>he will be signing a piece of legislation relating to social security later this afternoon. the social security fairness act. >> in terms of, sorry. so in terms of a lot of what we heard today is a lowering in the bottom line being payment. one of the things advantage for hiring someone coming from another country is the company does not have to pay their social security tax or payroll tax.

employee, all of us have half of our social security, 6.5% paid by our employer and the other part the other 6.5 comes out of our pay. that's a huge advantage for, -- companies to pay i just see this as something that never gets mentioned. host: i'm sorry james. i just wanted to double check what you were saying about h-1b visa holders not paying social security taxes are the payroll taxes. i'm looking at the irs website here and it says the h-1b alien who is paid wages in exchange for personal services in the united states is liable for u.s. social security and medicare taxes on such wages regardless of whether he or she is a u.s.

resonant alien or nonresident alien unless he or she is engaged in types of employment under u.s. law is not subject to u.s. social security and medicare taxes. unless there are some exceptions here it looks like overall they are required, they and their employers are required to pay those taxes. >> i find that interesting. it wasn't the experience i was seeing. as far as that surprising to me quite honestly. host: perhaps what you were seeing was maybe one of these exceptions to the rule. there are a couple of very detailed circumstances where there are exceptions. caller: well, i don't know what else to say to that. i do know one of the advantages india has, another point on taxes, india is the only country that citizens of india are entitled to use our standard

deduction on a tax form and that would be the only exception as far as getting the standard deduction on your taxable income. and that's a pretty good helpful thing when it comes to your tax return. this year it's going to be $15,000. host: let's go to a couple of other folks before we have to end the hour. mike is in wilmington north carolina on our line for republicans. good morning mike. caller: just a quick comment, i heard some talk about social security. i really am concerned about it. of course i now recently am on it. i understand it's slated to go bankrupt within like 10 years or something like that. i don't how that's going to be addressed. host: the trust fund is

scheduled to run out of money within roughly 10 years. that would, according to estimates result in anywhere from up to a 17% reduction in benefits, but it is not that social security payments would go away altogether but unless congress does something there would be a cut to benefits. caller: right, and that can be a little concerning for folks just getting by on that social security check. it could have some drawbacks to folks. host: clark is in west virginia on our line for independent spread good morning clark. caller: happy new year to all. i graduated high school in 1970. prior to that i had to work my way through. we owned a lumber company everybody's danced around the whole problem here. the educational system of the united states america is broken.

they can even write cursive. in the colleges they teach mostly hatred and going back to racism and all that stuff. it just blows your mind. the workforce of every country has their own system of hiring. if you're not qualified then you don't get the job. but like i said the school system is broke. they are dumber now than they ever was before. let's go back and fix our school system and then we would have qualified workers to take all of these high-tech jobs, they could take them but you have to teach it before they can learn it. host: what do you think of some of the calls of folks coming in within the trump administration as well as members of the congress saying we need to reduce the federal government's role in education, some of them

suggested getting rid of the department of education? caller: that's a toss there, lady. like i said if they go back -- over -- overkill sometimes just too much and under till is also. you have to find a fine balance in there to figure out who is doing what. as the old adage is. too many cooks in the kitchen spoils the pot so to say. host: thank you for your call and thank you to everyone who called in this morning on washington journal. we will be back tomorrow with another edition of the show at 7:00 a.m. eastern. we will leave you with more images from the carter center in atlanta, georgia of former president jimmy carter lying in repose. have a great day. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org]

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