tv Washington Journal 01062025 CSPAN January 6, 2025 7:00am-10:00am EST
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public service, along with these other television providers, giving you a front row seat to democracy. >> coming up on "washington journal," your calls and comments live. then axios political reporter stef kight will preview the week ahead in congress in washington politics. then aei senior fellow kevin kosar discusses congress meeting today to certify the 20 24 and changes to the process since january 6, 2021, when the capitol was attacked. join the conversation. ♪ host: good morning. it is monday, january 6, 2025, a
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cold and snowy day on capitol hill, today congress is set to certify results of the 2024 presidential election. congress counts electoral ballot that 1:00 p.m. eastern. we are getting your thoughts here at four years removed from the events of january 6, 2021, and as president-elect donald trump prepares to return to congress, we are asking, what does january 6 mean to you? democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8000. you can also send us a text at (202) 748-8003. include your name and your city. and you can post to social media, facebook.com/c-span or on x with handle @cspanwj. a very good monday morning. january 6 many different things
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to different people. washington post, president biden says this is what americans should remember about january 6. he writes, for much of our history, this was treating as pro forma, a routine act. but after what we witnessed on january 6, 2021, we know we can never take it for granted. violence, threats to the lives of elected officials, and assaulted brave law enforcement officers, we should not forget. we must remember, any nation that forgets its past is doomed to repeat it. we should commit, he writes, to remember january 6, 2021, every year, to remember the day when democracy was put to the test and prevailed. a member that democracy, even in america, is never guaranteed. president biden in today's washington post. a different perspective from robert knight and the washington times, headline, how democrats
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and mainstream media used and abused the january 6 insurrection, citing the insurrection, he writes, the attorney general round up more than 1300 people one day the, winnie in prison for years before facing trial and some facing harsh sentences using facial imagery technology, the fbi still rounding up more. democrats impeach trump for a second time. he writes, democratic prosecutors in four jurisdictions brought charges against mr. trump, hoping to keep him from being reelected. january 6, 2021, was the gift that kept on giving for democrats, he said, at least until voters shocked them on november 5. i hope and pray monday's certification is conducted without any drama.
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getting your thoughts in this first hour, asking you, what does january 6 mean to you? here is the schedule of the house today, noon is when the house meets for legislative business. 1:00 p.m. will be the joint session when the vote counting and certification process happens. you can call in this morning, phone lines on your screen. democrats, republicans, and independents. we start with kevin in maryland, in for democrats. caller: thank you for taking my call, man. january 6, what it did for me, it took me back to the insurrection after the civil war , when the first reconstruction was started, and that 10-year period, then exploded to a
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roadway. i believe as a country, we have not learned the lessons from that first reconstruction era. and now we are in the second reconstruction era. and here we are. it is said, really is sad that the people did what they did and we now just overlooked it. now trying to give them a pass. host: how are we trying to give them a pass? how are we overlooking it? caller: the reason why we are giving them a pass as because we have a president who is saying it was a love affair. he has justified, rationalized, and minimized the behavior of the people. also, people went to jail, he is now walking it back.
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talking about pardoning these people, things like that. what about the officers that were beaten that day and the guys who were injured? what about their families and the suffering they have been through? are we remembering them? are we talking about them? or are we trying to make it feel good for the president and his followers? that is what we have to remember , because if we do not remember the past, we are doomed to repeat it. that is all i really have to say, john. i really appreciate you. this is a great question today have a blessed day. host: daniel here in d.c., republican line. good morning. caller: yes, we have a very dangerous emergency situation. donald trump is a narcissistic sociopath, violent, and we need to stop this inauguration. host: daniel, you say that as a
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republican? caller: yeah, responsible republican. he has tried to overthrow the government in 2020, and the supreme court has basically installed him and rewrote the 14th amendment. and democrats are so weak, every democrat needs to stand up and go after this president before he is inaugurated for violating the 14th amendment. and he is still giving them safe harbor. host: there are members who object on the floor today? caller: i want everyone in the house or senate who participated in the previous insurrection -- not on trump's aiding and abetting them, this idea of pardoning them. things are definitely out of
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control. this inauguration must be stopped, put on hold for the sake of this country. for sure. host: that is daniel. this is taught in california, independent. go ahead. caller: good morning. how are you? host: doing well. caller: with all due respect to the last caller, he has no idea what he is talking about, donald trump is probably the best president we have ever had. and what happened in the election was the people decided that the democratic party leadership, which is demonic and a party of death because they like abortion, has said they should lose and we should elect trump. january 6, trump did not lead and insurrection. he said peacefully go down there and protest, peacefully. he did not say overthrow the government, did not say overthrow congress.
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so that is a lie, and i'm getting really tired of that. and today, when they certify the election, trump will be inaugurated again, and all of this nightmare is going to be over. host: back to the line for democrats, jerry in detroit, good morning. caller: good morning, and greetings yet again and happy new year from motown. in response to people like todd, i wanted to spill a lot of myths, -- i want to dispel a lot of myths, if i could, on what supporters you to try to -- used to try to justify what happen at the capitol. todd, if you are listening, trump did indeed inside the riot. he told that mob to go to the capitol and fight like hell or you want have a country anymore.
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second, there is the lie about nancy pelosi being in charge of security and trump offering it to her and she refused. she was not in charge of security for the capitol. she was not one who sent that mob, heated. and then the conspiracy theory about the fbi being at the capitol, where in that mass of swinging flagpoles and hockey sticks, bear mace, did anyone see any fbi agents? finally, there is this lame comparison between the attack on the capitol and black lives matter, and what ways they think the u.s. capitol and a walgreens store are anywhere near equivalent? i have been hearing this stuff all along these past four years trying to downplay or outright deny that january 6 even happened, even though the whole
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world saw it on live tv. host: that is jerry in detroit. another op-ed in today's papers from the new york times, a former sergeant of u.s. capitol police, he was there on january 6. the headline of his peace, for many of us, january 6 never ended. for those who did not experience the violence on january 6, it might feel like it is in the past, but it is not for me, he writes. i keep reliving the five horrific hours of the cold wednesday afternoon as i tried to protect political officials regardless of their ideology and their staff inside the building without firing my gun. i was beaten and struck by raging rioters all over my body with multiple weapons until i was covered in my own blood. my hand and shoulder were wounded. i thought i was going to die and never make it home to see my wife and son. over the last four years, he writes, it has been devastating
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to me because donald trump repeats his promise to pardon insurrectionists his first day back in office. i have called them the hostages, he said in a speech last year. know that those who storm the capitol were not peaceful protesters, pardoning them would be an outrageous mistake, he writes. it would mean 800 convicted criminals would be back on the streets. he goes on from there. former capitol police sergeant. also in the times, since leaving the capitol police, road, american shield, the immigrant sergeant who defended democracy, came out this past year, he was on c-span's booktv at the 2024 gaithersburg book festival, you can see him talking about his experience. c-span.org for that. we're talking about potential pardons for those convicted of crimes related to january 6,
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2021.donald trump was asked about that and i meet the press interview last month. this is what he said at the time. [video clip] >> you promise to pardon those to attack the capitol on january 6. are you still looking at that? fmr. pres. trump: we are looking at it now, most likely. those people have suffered long and hard. there may be some exceptions. we will have to look. if somebody was radical or crazy, there might be some people from antifa there. you do not know, because those same -- those people seem to be in good shape. you know who scaffold man was? he stood on the scaffold telling people what to do, and nothing ever happened to him. what about reyes? strange what he was saying, where is he in what happened to him? people did very little. they arrested an old woman because she -- i don't think she did anything. they do not even know what she
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did. these people have suffered. their lives have been destroyed. yet, in portland, where they burned down half the city. they burn it down half the time, like a routine experience, they don't do anything. they destroyed the beautiful limestone exterior of a courthouse in portland. they killed people in portland, seattle. people got killed in seattle. seattle, they took over a big chunk of the city. they took it over. they took the city away. minneapolis, it looked like they said it was a family protest, but from cnn, they show that the entire city was burning down. look like world war ii. nothing happened. nothing happened. they took over the police station. they took over the police station in minneapolis. they burned it down. nothing happened. yet, these people have been in jail, and i hear that jail is a
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hellhole. they have done reports, and you would say that is true, they have done reports, this is the most disgusting, filthy place. these people are living in hell. i think it is very unfair. >> some of them, 169 have pleaded guilty to assaulting police officers. 900 pleaded guilty to other crimes. they are also going to be eligible for a pardon from you? pres.-elect trump: it is a very tough system. almost nobody -- i saw people that did not even go into the building and they were convicted. and you had the police saying come on in, come on in. the police are saying come on in, everybody, come on in. they had people -- you have a lot of cameras, they don't want to release the tapes. >> you're going to consider pardoning even those who pleaded guilty to crimes, even assaulting police officers? you are not willing to help? >> look, i know the system.
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the system is a very corrupt system. they said to a guy you're going to go to jail for two years or for 30 years, and their lives have been destroyed for two years, but the system is a very nasty system. host: that is president-elect donald trump back on a meet the press interview. a story in today's paper, from the transition spokeswoman, who sat in an email about this issue of pardoning those who have been convicted of crimes related to january 6, donald trump will pardon americans who were denied due process and were unfairly prosecuted by the weaponize department of justice. getting your thoughts this morning. what does january 6 mean to you? scott from maryland, republican. go ahead. caller: good morning. i believe that the media and democrats keep lying about what happened on january 6.
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there was no insurrection. it was a violent protest, yes. insurrection, no. in insurrection took place at fort sumter. everybody is still crying about the people who were injured on january 6. nobody is crying that ashli babbitt was shot in the back by an alleged police officer for the capitol hill police. he should be charged with murder and should be prosecuted. the fbi was there. there were undercover fbi agent's there. they were instigating these people to be violent, and the fbi at a capitol hill hearing broadcast on c-span, an fbi manager denied, he would not answer the question whether there were fbi agents on january 6. host: how do you feel about pardons for people convicted of crimes, whether it is assaulting police officers, seditious
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conspiracy, some 14 people convicted of that? what do you think of the idea of pardoning those people? caller: i believe that the people who are currently political presenters who have been persecuted should be pardoned at 12:02 on january 20. they were persecuted by the weaponize department of justice. host: and you think everybody, whether they pled guilty, were convicted, you think every person related to january 6 -- caller: i believe president trump should view the documentation, and he will see that these people are political prisoners that were persecuted by merrick garland and joe biden and the democrats are thank you. host: scott in maryland. some 1500 people have been charged with various crimes, about 1000 pled guilty, 250 others convicted by judge or jury. 14 for seditious conspiracy, 380
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four assaulting police officers members of the media. the number of other felonies, 287 other felonies, charged, convicted, sentenced. we can go through the numbers throughout the course of this program. asking you this morning, what does january 6 mean to you? walter here in d.c., good morning. caller: good morning, john. how are you? host: doing well. caller: i am a democrat, and i am not a fan of donald trump. but four years later, into this day, none of us, including your first two callers, know all the facts about what actually happened on january 6. for these two reasons, one, because our media has no interest or investigative curiosity into finding out all the facts and details about things that took place that day. and there is a slight cover up, and that is not my opinion.
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but there are things like a former u.s. capitol police chief who should have been in the january 6 committee because he has expansive information about what took place, then they did not want to hear what he had to say. and they have been videos since february 2021, two videos of caucasian and african-american u.s. capitol police officers, waving trump supporters into the capitol. they show the videos again on friday on a tv show on newsmax. i recommend you turn it on again tonight, they might show it again. these cops, you can see their faces, and no one has asked who they are, no one has identified them. some people, yes, some people did invade and broke into the capitol. but these people walked in, and hundreds of these people charged with trespassing said they were let in by police, and some pled
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guilty to that. host: you mentioned a former capitol police chief, and he wrote a book, "courage under fire: the definitive account from inside the capitol on january 6." he has written his account. here in d.c., walter, can you describe security in d.c. ahead of what is happening today, preparations and place for the inauguration, and also the event this week, the funeral for jimmy carter? what is it like around d.c. this week? caller: the way d.c. security -- security is tight, but security is always tight. if you read the book, he also mentioned that nancy pelosi was responsible for the breach of the capitol, not trump. he has been on the horn trying to get secret service, and trump
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authorized 10,000 national guard troops. that also came out by national guard whistleblowers. a lot of information has been coming out that nancy pelosi -- they were fbi con vigil soldiers, and 23 did not have authorization for being there -- they were fbi confidential soldiers. you also had christopher wray who refused to answer the questions when they were being grilled. some people do suspect those people reset up. the ones who committed crimes, i'm not offended by that. but other guys, one guy did not do anything because the video shows that he did not do anything. and another one should be released because he was in baltimore. he got 22 years in prison, and he was not here. host: got your point. you mentioned the qanon guy. for those that watched what happened on january 6 and the weeks or months after, certainly know the name of the qanon
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shaman, as he was described. he is profiled in today's new york times, they look back on were several of these folks are today who were there on january 6. this is jacob chansley, few people more visibly associated with the capitol attack than the so-called qanon shaman who entered the capitol building in face paint and a headdress while brandishing an american flag on a spear tipped flagpole. he left a threatening note on the senate floor for vice president mike pence. the mob overwhelmed the capitol that day. like others who disrupted the election certification, he seeks to cast the 41 month sentence he received as -- he maintained january 6 was a set up by the government and that public officials and the news media have painted him as a villain and terrorist.
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he creates art in his daily life in phoenix, and he says it remains much the same as it did before that day other than he gets more interviews now, he told the new york times. next call. good morning. caller: good morning, john. waited a long time to talk to you, buddy. to me, january 6 was a day of treason. we now have a man who was above the law, and i am just disgusted by the whole thing. i just lost a husband that in june who served in world war ii. host: sorry for your loss. caller: we watched on tv -- we did not need the news media or anybody, we took trump's words, fight like hell. he said on january 6, it is going to be wild. so he called these people, this was all planned. you are going to tell me that that event that there was random and these people just decided they did not like what was
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happening? that whole thing was planned, and you did not need the news media to tell you anything. you could tell by the way those people were acting. and all those people who serve in our congress and our senate, those people that were involved in this, nothing ever happened to them. none of them should have been reelected. trump should have never been reelected. that is how i feel. and i want to thank you. host: live pictures of capitol hill right now, a snowy day on capitol hill. this event is designated as a special security event, increased security and fencing around the capitol. reports of 500 national guard members on call for events this week and also on january 20, on inauguration day. you can see police activity around capitol hill already. house underway at noon eastern, joint session meeting at 1:00 p.m. eastern. we are expecting about an hour or so for the counting process
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of the ballots, the certification process. you can watch it all live here on c-span. this is cass in phoenix, independent. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i have very little time, and the last two gentlemen before this irrational lady that gave her opinion, all you had to do was watch. everybody knows, just like todd says, trump says go there and let your voices be heard, march peacefully and patriotically, let your voices be heard. it was on tape that nancy pelosi's daughter said she is responsible, nancy in her own voice. you can watch it the day it happened. even tucker carlson had him on his show and played a lot of the pieces of it. and it shows the gentleman that were at the doors opening them for the people saying, come on
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in, come on in. they showed the shaman, you called him, they were opening the doors and he said i cannot go in there, can i? yes, of course, everything is fine, you can go in. they knew he was not going to do anything. and everybody knows, too, that liz cheney worked with that one lady, all she gave was third-party information, she got rid of her lawyer -- cannot think of her name, she got another lawyer, and now that first lawyer woman that liz cheney used is now speaking out also and that lady has no idea, she did not know what was going on. and liz cheney used her. i don't understand how people can believe this crap. what happened to reyes? he was standing on top of this
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huge cement thing saying go in, go in. the fbi had 26 people there. host: you mentioned liz cheney, she was at the white house on thursday receiving a presidential citizens medal from president biden. the report -- the former republican congresswoman there. we will show you a little of that ceremony. [video clip] >> elizabeth l cheney for putting american people over party. [applause]
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host: the official announcement from the white house -- white house sites liz cheney and others who received the presidential citizens medal, throughout two decades in public service, including as a congressman, on the committee of the january 6 attack, liz cheney has raised her voice and reached across the aisle to defend our nation and the ideals we stand for. her integrity and in tremendous remise is what is possible -- and intrepid nist reminds us what is possible if we work together. that is the statement from the white house. mark in new york, good morning. what does january 6 mean to you? caller: good morning thank you for c-span. i am in nyack, new york. i just want to say two facts. i do not deal in conspiracy theories like all these maga people that keep calling in. the fact is that violence was
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used at our capitol. i don't know if some of the police were trumpers and they opened the door for people, but i do not believe in political violence. i have lived in washington, d.c., and other places, and i have demonstrated nonviolently. i was actually at the capitol the year before, and we tried to get up the steps and there was environmentalists, by the way, totally peaceful, and we were blocked by the cops and arrested. anybody who tried to get up the steps, and we had to pay fines. that is because maga is a violent political movement. they said violence is possible for their political means. host: why would you feel like you needed to get up the steps that day? you said you were protesting environmental issues? caller: yes. host: why did you feel like you needed to get at the capitol steps?
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caller: it was a protest with greenpeace, and we were talking about saving the planet, not overthrowing a free and fair election. because i do not believe most people on the left want to overthrow democracy. that is not what we believe in. but these maga people, it is a whole new thing, basically fascism as far as i can see, and i am very worried about trump's next four years. host: how many protests with you say you have participated in in your life? caller: at least 100. host: why do you do it? caller: i protested the iraq war. like i said, i believe in nonviolence. i protested the iraq war many times. when i was a child, i protested the vietnam war. i always did peacefully. i do not believe in political
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violence. that is barbaric. and we need to be a better country than that. host: that is markedly nyack, new york. we are about halfway through this first hour of the "washington journal," asking you, what does january 6 mean to you? plenty of opposites and stories on this topic today ahead of the electoral vote counting certification. here is one, history department briefing in politico magazine, 20 years before january 6, al gore stood up to his own party and mike pence was watching. it is by a presidential historian, and he writes, last summer in a private moment at the memorial service for joe lieberman, two former vice presidents had a conversation. al gore and mike pence, an interaction that has never been reported, for actions at the capitol on january 6 when attacked by a mob.
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pence on the opposite side of the political aisle but the same set of pews, he said something surprising, suggesting to al gore that he had done january 6 january 6 what he did on, 2020 one, as part because what he saw on january 6, 2001. he witnessed a vice president like him stand up two pressure from the other party, even though it meant personal defeat. i never forgot it, mike pence said to al gore in the recollection. you do not know how much that means to me, al gore said, coming from you. what pence did and did not do four years back underscores the high peril of what is often considered all but a formality, certification of the electoral college vote. more from michael cruz in politico magazine, if you want to read that. andre in ohio, republican. good morning. caller: good morning.
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thank you for c-span. thank you for taking my call. quite a timely subject, this one. i am a fairly frequent caller. i am a registered republican. i have not voted for the president-elect in his two attempts. and i am one of the, i guess, few people watching c-span that watched this whole thing come about. and it is unbelievable that there are -- the only kind word would be seedlings that either never witnessed what happened or are so deep into what is essentially fascist ideology to
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invent all these stories about green being yellow. of course, we're watching it right now. on your screen, or at least i am, what went down. this was not police letting people in. this was a riot, a coup attempt, and it was egged on by the then president of the united states. this clown, utter clown, made the united states of america be just like any other damn country in the world. we had a coup. you know, there have been coups from south of the border to the
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tip of south america, all over africa. obviously, mr. president elect as a person who happens to be adolf hitler, he started his political career -- mr. president elect is a similar person as adolf hitler, and he did a coup d'etat. host: you have not voted for donald trump, and you just made a hitler comparison to donald trump. why are you a republican? caller: why am i a republican? because i am a republican, because i believe in small government. this is why i am doing this. i will say this much, not only
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has he installed -- tried to, and failed, that is one point of comparison with adolf, i will give you another one -- host: we will hold off on more comparisons. we will go to trina in new jersey, independent. caller: good morning. hello, c-span. thank you for taking my call. i want to make a quick point about your question today. first off, january 6 was an insurrection by a bunch of thugs who stormed the capitol. you know and i know what we saw that day. congress members running for their lives. trump saying, or gas lighting us, that it was not an insurrection will not change my mind. my second to last point is, bottom line on that day, trump was the commander-in-chief. i served 33 years in this
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military, so i know a little bit about chain of command, and if he wanted to stop all the carnage going on in the capitol, all he had to do was say so. so anybody who says otherwise, and especially those who have not served in this military, please take a seat. i'm so disappointed in the gas lighting that we keep getting, and we know what we saw. trump's infamous for making us believe in something we do not see or hear, something he is really good at. host: what do you think about presidential pardons for those convicted of various crimes related to january 6, 2021? caller: absolutely not, if they caused carnage or damage, trespassing, of course those who heard capitol police officers, absolutely not. the fact that trump would do the pledge of allegiance to these january 6 thugs, it just made my
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heart sink. so absolutely not, no pardons. if he wants to pardon people who maybe were not as violent that day and have been in jail, that is a consideration. but we all know trump will do what he wants to do and what pads his pockets. he is the ultimate money grabber. host: yesterday on cbs, face the nation, that nancy pelosi spun into the idea of president-elect donald trump pardoning january 6 , those convicted of january 6 crimes, when he becomes president. a little bit of that interview. [video clip] >> it was a tragedy, and we cannot be in denial of what it was. if the president is going to go on a case-by-case basis, i hope he does -- >> trespassers you would be
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comfortable with pardoning? >> depends on how they define what that is. i know that some of the encouragement and then the follow-up that so many people were threatened, including me and to my home, looking for me and finding my husband, who still suffers from head injuries from on that day. so these things do not just happen and go away. when you have a head injury. but anyway, to see the threat so many people in elected office, going beyond me, but so many people in elected office, it should not be a threat to your family that you have chosen to do public service. host: former speaker nancy pelosi yesterday. the editorial board of the wall street journal, usually
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conservative, there editorial, they write, is trump's pardon promise for january 6ers, do they include the ex meth trafficker who brought a metal baton and pointed it at a police officer? how far will they go, they ask. it since an awful message on the acceptability of political violence. nonviolent offenses, they write, he would do well to examine the details. this is laura in spokane, washington, republican. caller: good morning. well, i feel that all of them should be pardoned and that their lives should be restored for them. and here's why, the facts are facts don't support this idea
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that it was an insurrection. there's a lot of jibber jabber, a lot of false facts. but none of it really adds up when you look at the truth of it. host: how would you describe what happened that day? caller: what happened, there was a big rally, and there were, oh, they went there to address their grievances. that is it, they had the right to do that. host: did they have a right to storm the building and break windows? caller: we do not know that they broke windows. host: we don't know that they broke windows? caller: we don't. it has been proven, they had people there that were paid to provide a riot-like attitude and cause trouble and stuff like that. ok. host: there is a picture on the
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front page of today's washington post, one of the broken windows from that day, this was taken the day after january 6, 2021. so as you watch some of the videos that were taken that day, what do you think you are seeing? caller: i am seeing a group of people peacefully walking through building, that is it, trying to get there to air their grievances to the government. what i do see is a lot of flim flam and a lot of staging, and we are not looking at the real reason for this. they had the right to address government, and they were right. we now know that the election was fraudulent because of hunter's laptop. host: all right, that his lawyer. this is loretta in cleveland, ohio, democrat. good morning. caller: good morning. [indiscernible] host: i think we have to work on your line. as we're doing that, let me go to harvey in california,
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independent. good morning. caller: good morning. i am real concerned about what happened. a a couple callers ago, a gentleman called this a coup. i saw it happened on tv, as he did. i feel very strongly it was a coup, and it is continuing. there has been a lot of activity. 14th amendment, section three and five, you cannot hold office, the supreme court, on march 4 last year, said they overturned the supreme court of colorado that had a republican electorate, norma anderson, that contested this, and it was also contested in 20 states, including illinois and maine. so there is the national constitution center, a nonpartisan group, and on march
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8, a guy from the university of maryland and a guy from the hoover institute, they brought up and said it is all jumbled, the supreme court's decision did not make any sense, contradictions. and they were trying to avoid what trump threatened was violence. also, the group that came up with this project 2025, taking away justice, environmental protection agency, and education. they said if the left doesn't like it, then there will not be violence. that is a terrorist threat. host: harvey in california. 7:45 on the east coast, taking your phone calls, asking, what does january 6 mean to you? the house set to meet at noon
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eastern today, at 1:00 p.m., the joint session will take place for electoral ballot counting and certification. president biden is not in washington, d.c., today. he and the first lady traveling to new orleans today to meet family members and residents affected by the new year's day attack in new orleans. speaker mike johnson yesterday was on fox and spoke about what will happen today in the house for this january 6 meeting, joint session of congress. here are some of that. [video clip] >> can you tell us what you expect? >> well i hope we have full attendance, we have a big snowstorm coming to d.c., and we encourage colleagues, do not leave town, stay here. the electoral count act requires this on january 6 at 1:00 p.m. whether we are in a blizzard or not, we need to be in that chamber making sure this is done. president trump had a mandate, a landslide.
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so many electoral votes, and we get to count them all, and we cannot delay that certification. he deserves it. 77 million americans voted for president trump his agenda, almost 75 million for the house, our highest number ever. we call it a mandate we need to get to work immediately on it. host: sneaker -- speaker mike johnson yesterday. not a blizzard, but it is a snowy, cold day. you can see that snowy weather on capitol hill. capitol workers have been out already cleaning the sidewalks and roadways around the u.s. capitol, and there is a heavy police presence today on capitol hill. a special security event here on this january 6. also on january 20 for the inauguration. taking your phone calls, simply asking you what does january 6 , mean to you? johnny in georgia, democrat, good morning. caller: yes, how you doing?
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i am sickened by the day because we have people calling in saying they did not see what they saw, and you heard the speech the man made, it was all a lie. we cannot believe what we was seeing because it was happening before our eyes. some people saying it was staged. there was no stage with people climbing walls and jumping into windows and stuff. the best thing that happened was vice president pence, he did his job. that was the best thing. then you want to compare that day to the day when people got tired of police killing black people. that's two different things. one's political and one is for human rights. i do not get why you try to guess like the situation and say that. it is not what it is. it is what it is, and you cannot change it. they did something wrong that
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day. they will be punished. if we did, we would have been punished. thank you. host: john, arlington, virginia, republican. caller: good morning. there are problems with the follow-up to january 6, the committee, when they played the tape of trump telling people to get out to the white house, there was the part where he said do it peacefully and patriotically. i have serious concerns about the fact that from december, they knew after the december events that there would probably be problems, may be at the capitol, certainly enough that they should have had a lot of people there. that being said, trump sat for 87 minutes in the white house and watched fox tv, did nothing about calling off the riot.
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and i call it a riot, not an insurrection. the guys that were placed for breaking into the capitol, assaulting police, that really happened. i hate to tell the trump people that. in this guy, reyes, they go after him. i think tucker carlson got in a little trouble because of that. it was a shame. to me, the bottom line was that al gore lost by 500 plus votes in florida and accepted the court decision, donald trump lost by 7 million votes popularly and over 10,000 votes in the two closest states, and challenged in courts that turned him down. every challenge they made, and
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you still here that the election was stolen. i think it is a disgrace to the american people and trump was legitimately elected this time, but i think this will follow him in the history books forever, and i really am sorry that a lot of followers of trump do not understand exactly what they're getting into. host: you mentioned tucker carlson. this is a story from late november of last year, federal judge throwing out a defamation suit against fox news by former donald trump supporter who said he received death threats when the network aired false conspiracy theories about his involvement in the capitol insurrection. a former marine falsely accused by fox for causing trouble near the capitol that day, a u.s. district judge granted without comment the just motion to
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dismiss the case. it was the subject of a 60 minutes interview in 2023, epps climbing his wife sold in arizona ranch where they lived and moved because of harassment because of the report, and name tucker carlson as being the most active promoter of the conspiracy theory. that was from the associated press. this is jimbo in california, independent. caller: hi, john. hey, every january 6, about howe is going to be insulted again, how people are going to tell me that which i saw on c-span that day did not happen. and it is just tiresome to hear it every year. you did not see that, that did not happen. this coming from someone who just has a visceral hate for both political parties.
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ok, i have no need for either of you. but what i really am tired is this maga crowd trying to tell me that i did not see what i saw on january 6. all right. now you're just downright insulting to us, to all of us. you know what? donate -- own it, because it is who you are. that is what you need to understand, that your continuous repetitive, nauseating allies do not penetrate the american people. one other thing, john. when you look at that scene where the police are being pushed in at the bike racks, i want everyone to visualize, had it been a sea of black faces primarily, as a bunch of white people, how would police have responded then?
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with there have been bloodshed that day on that front line? many people speculate that there would have. so the racial component to all of january 6 and their police response to it is also an interesting thing. host: what do you think about joe biden writing an op-ed in today's washington post saying this is what americans seem to remember about january 6, saying we must heed the wisdom of the adage that any nation that forgets its past is due to repeated, and we cannot accept that to occur -- on the op-ed page of the washington post? caller: it would have been great if it would have come from someone who has some respect within the community of people. again, joe biden told us that he was going to be the transition president, a one-term president, and he lost all credibility when
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he ran for a second term. so joe biden can say pretty much anything that he wants to now, and he has no credibility. again, that is why -- joe biden is a textbook example of why the democratic party needs to disband and become a party of actual americans. i have not had a political party since pete wilson was our governor. i have been voting for mickey mouse because of the hauteur of college and its close association with slavery and it should have been done away with the 14th amendment. my vote has not been counted since pete wilson was our governor. i have no say in this government at all. i do not have any influence of my congressman, he is going to be a republican. i do not have any influence of my senator, he is going to be a democrat. i do not have influence of roy president, i know that -- over my president, i know that in
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california, the electoral college votes are going to go for -- host: are you still with us? jim, an independent, a frequent caller. we will probably hear from him next month. sorry you got cut off thei where. -- sorry you got cut off there. another op-ed today about january 6, or an alternative january 6, says a different timeline, january 6, 2025, was going to be glorious with the media and harrowing retrospectives on trump in 2021, all the liberal talking heads tell cameras how close we came to losing our freedom. it was the most interesting in america since the civil war, they sullenly insist, and then they sigh in relief, chastise the stupid american people one last time and pat themselves on the back for finally disbanding
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the people m -- evil maga menace. we did it, guys. and liberal kamala harris presiding over the certification of her grand historic victory, he writes, you can imagine kamala grinning from ear to ear, and republicans finally admitting the error of their ways. he says the american people read that screenplay and threw it in the garbage truck. fortunately, the president elect was already driving the garbage truck. time for a couple more phone calls in this first segment of the "washington journal." we will have more time later, as well. this is ethan in massachusetts, republican. good morning. we lost ethan. this is sherry in ohio, democrat. caller: hi, john. i just want to say that sinclair lewis once wrote that when
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fascism comes to america, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross. and i believe that fascism came on january 6, 2021. and i want to shout out to my fellow ohioan who is on my page, thank you. host: dennis in michigan, good morning. caller: thanks for taking my call. this is exactly what is wrong with america today. i know what i saw on tv. i am not republican nor democrat. they attempted to overthrow the government. and whatever this baloney they are trying to lie about, it is just ridiculous. and all these people that feel they could improve this, they were not doing that, they let them in -- i saw what i saw, and
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i know millions of americans saw what they saw appeared you cannot tell me they did not try to overthrow the government and that trump was not involved. know what i mean? and there should be no pardons for this. you know what i mean, this is a democratic side, republican, supposed to be. that is all i have to say. host: andy in new jersey, republican. good morning. caller: the activities of january 6 were a rally or a demonstration until the individuals violently entered the capitol, then it turned to something else. but my question involves around accurate reporting and what we call the activities of that day. i realized on january 6, hundreds, if not thousands, if not thousands, of people were killed at the capitol. host: thousands of people were killed at the capitol? caller: oh, wait, that is
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wrong, isn't it? that is true, they were not killed. but we call that an insurrection. or we call it a riot. what do we call the activities that took place across the country under the banner of black lives matter? much more damage was caused, many more lives were lost. what is the prosecution -- what prosecutions took place over those activities? i think it should be reported evenly. those people that went into the capitol were violent. they were more than protesters. but they didn't kill people. someone died, but they didn't die at the hands of a protester. a protester died at the hands of a capital policeman. advance unfortunate. but that protester brought it on themselves. i'm not condoning anything that those people did, but i would just like to have it reported
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accurately what did take place and call people like of black lives matter who were both white and black, protested under that banner, i would like them to be called rioters or anarchists or something like that, not protesters. they were not protesters. host: andy in new jersey, our last call her this first segment. talk about this morning. up next we will be joined by steph night -- stef knight. and later, aei senior fellow kevin kosar explains the history of january 6. stick around, we will be right back. ♪ >> democracy unfiltered with
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c-span. experience history as it unfold see can live coverage this month as republicans take control of of chambers of congress and a new chapter begins with the swearing in of the 47th president of the united states. today, witness kamala harris preside over the certification over the electoral college vote where this historic session will officially confirm donald trump at the winner of the 24 presidential election and on january 20, tune in for live, all day coverage of the presidential inauguration of donald trump taking the oval office becoming the 47th president of the united states. stay with c-span this month for comprehensive, live, unfiltered coverage of the 119th congress and the presidential inauguration. c-span, democracy unfiltered. >> bryon mcclanahan has a phd in
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history. several years ago he wrote a book titled "nine presidents who screwed up america and four who tried to save her." his view is not the traditional one you get promoted three. the liner notes claim the worst presidents are the ones who want to reform the country with power of federal government which usually means usurping the power of congress or the people. he focuses a negative spotlight on andrew jackson, abraham lincoln and barack obama and others. >> brian mcclanahan with his book "nine presidents who screwed up america and four who tried to save her" on this episode of boo notes. book notes is available on the c-span now free mobile app or wherever you get your podcastss. washington journal continues. host: on mondays when congress
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is in session we like to take a look at the week ahead in washington. we are joined by steph kite, politics reporter with axios. from the electoral vote counting to a busy week on capitol hill, walk us through the schedule these next couple of days first. guest: today at the big day of certifying the election results. of course that will be overseen by vice president harris. she will be the one to announce that her opponent won the election, we got that going on today, and then we will see former president jimmy carter lying in state in the rotunda in the middle of the week and his funeral will be on friday or we will see all of the former president scattering together. again another potentially awkward moment with a bunch of people who have not always been on good terms and who have been political enemies over the past several years coming together as
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is traditional to honor the former president's life. host: amid all of that, if they're going to be time for legislative business on capitol hill this week? guest: one thing that we will be watching in the senate is how they begin to prepare for these confirmation fights. there is a rule where committee chairs have to give a week notice before they pass a hearing. just really getting going here, they are going to announce when those are going to start taking place. we are expecting a focus on some of the national security picks. people like pete haig seth, tulsi gabbard as her intelligence leadership role. so we are going to start seeing indications that those are going to be moving quickly and then next week is when we will see those hearings actually kick off. host: when those take place today usually let one go at a time, or are there hearings that happen at multiple times?
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guest: they try to avoid conflict but we are expecting quite a few on the 14th and 15th and as you pointed out, it kind of depends on which committees these nominees end up sitting before, or whether they can kind of have many going on at the same time. the members of these committees that these people are being nominated for are going to be the ones who have this hearing. some nominees, rfk jr., for example, at have to sit before two different committees in the senate, of house and judiciary. so there's going to be a lot of hearings coming up, some of these nominees have some concerns that senators are going to want to have addressed. host: what starts happening in the house legislatively, what is
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the primary focus for reelecting speaker johnson? guest: the number one thing that we know that house and senate are both focused on is this huge reconciliation package for president-elect trump. officially saying just yesterday that he no longer wants this two-part reconciliation, he once son the bill that will address things like spending and tax cuts, order funding, funding for deportation efforts. it will address energy policy. it's going to be a really large bill. he's also said he wants to include a no taxes on tips policy he's been campaigning on. for a while we thought there were the two bills, one that is border focused and another addressing tax cuts. in order to kind of corral his own conference and make sure republicans have the votes to actually pass so many of these top priorities. we are already seeing these being hashed out publicly, often
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hearing about it behind closed doors and that is going to really ease the fight over the next few weeks and months. host: what is a reconciliation package, why is it different from a regular tilt that may have been different? guest: it is a way to get around the 60 vote filibuster in the senate. it allows for budget related items to be passed with a simple majority in the senate. and there are rules around this. it is not just an easy way to get around the filibuster pierced it can only be used with policies that are related to the budget, and there is a process that congress will have to go through to make sure that the policy they want to get through need that criteria. it will go before the send parliamentarians who ultimately decide whether the things that republicans want to get done can get under this process. otherwise, if it is not directly budget-related, there is a chief that it could be rejected and
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those are the kinds of things that would have to get done in a bipartisan way. host: for this week ahead in washington, now is the time to: with your questions about what is going to be going on in that building over my shoulder. it is (202) 748-8000 free democrats. (202) 748-8001 for republicans. independents (202) 748-8002. i want to get into the margins in the house and senate but first, the house majority margins for votes is smaller than the senate majority margin of six votes. what does that mean for john thune for mike johnson or donald trump? guest: the number one thing that this means is that there's going to be a lot more catering to the house in order to get things done. usually it is the senate that it is hard to get things through because of the filibuster. usually it is the senate where things end up, bills get past
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the house, and then they don't go anywhere. now we are looking at a situation where they are really going to cater to the house even more. john thune wanted this two-part bill for reconciliation. but because mike johnson doesn't think he can get to bills across, we assume that house republicans, a faction of them who are very willing to make things political, there are a handful of them for even into buck trump on some issues. thomas massie was willing to still vote against mike johnson despite the fact that trump said that he was the one he wanted for speaker. so you are going to see these conservative voices continue to have power in one of their biggest things is spending cuts.
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it is going to be a key thing to watch. however, there is a chance that some of these republicans are going to feel more comfortable falling in line with trump. republicans are going to be even more willing to push back and not let things go through. there is a chance we see more cohesion working together when trump is the one calling the shots. host: three republicans, to members getting private meetings behind closed doors that every vote is going to cap for mike johnson. guest: making sure everyone is in attendance will count.
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if you are missing one person for other reasons, that is going to completely ruin the chances of getting legislation passed. mike johnson has been you'd to give more insight into the bills, more time to look at legislation to make sure it goes to rules and not avoiding the rules committee and getting democrats to pass things. all of that is going to make it very difficult for the house to get things done. host: let me bring in a few callers. dan, independent. caller: i would like to ask ken democracy and fox news exist at the same time? thank you. i will take that answer off air. host: a media question today. we've been talking a lot about
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the media. any thoughts on that? guest: one of the key elements of democracy is a free press. that is with different viewpoints with different listeners and different viewers and that is all part of what makes our democracy democracy. so yes, it is important. and there is real concern still and real distress in the media right now. we see it with elon musk posting on x very explicitly criticizing the media's coverage of trump. when i tried to do, is try to be as unbiased as possible. but it is important for all
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reporters to do it we can to regain trust from the american people in what we cover. host: the hilt leaders newsletter, explain what that is and your coverage focus, how you cover leaders. guest: this is our newsletter we launched just a few years ago. it has been a long few weeks. we launched this to really focus on our coverage of the capital, but that the lens of leadership. because at the end of the day it comes down to speaker mike johnson and majority leader john thune to determine what gets put on the floor. her focus is really on leadership both at the very top and also committee leaders. people who are determinative on what it's done in congress. president trump second administration, they are ambitious, they have a lot of things that need to get done and a lot of things that they need to get gone viral and have to go
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to congress that is something we will be covering very closely. host: who will be the key committee leaders they are focusing on? there are a lot of committees in the house and senate. how do you figure out where to focus? guest: reconciliation fight will be looking at senator lindsey graham. a love that will go through hands. he will be a key person. the other leadership we are watching our centers on the bills, senators and members who were closest with trump. we know that trump is the kind of person who makes phone calls and make things happen. he becomes a whip and he starts trying to move people in the direction he wants them to go. so people who are comfortable with the president elect, the senators and members were frequently getting phone calls and texts from him are going to be sources of power. that is another space to watch. tom cotton who is considered for the administration now will be
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the number three in leadership and also chair of the intelligence committee. and lastly, the committee will be watching closely of the appropriations committee especially in the senate. so much of congress' power comes down to where money is appropriated. and when you have susan collins and mitch mcconnell, those are two voices who have not been hesitant about pushing back on trump in the past and they could use their way to do that. host: what is mitch mcconnell's role going to be now that he is not majority or minority leader in the senate? guest: that is a good question and one that we are watching very closely. he's made it clear that he continues to push for american strength of the world stage, he plans to push for boosting defense spending. that is really his number one priority that he has said over and over again. he will be chairing the subcommittee, so he will have a lot of power in deciding how
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much money and where money is spent when it comes to u.s. defense. that will be a key focus for him he's also made it clear he stands by john through to fight to keep the filibuster in place. last time around trump didn't demand that the filibuster be ended to get things done easier, mitch mcconnell said no, released it is grounded in the first ministration. john thune has indicated that he plans to protect the filibuster and we know mcconnell will back him up on that. host: the sunflower state, this is sylvia, republican. good morning, you are on. caller: i have a question because you have brought up january 6 and all that. i could go into that, but i'm not going to. my question for you guys is the way the last four years of gone, even starting with january 6 of the year before, is there a way
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that they could stop that certification of president trump? host: you're are talking about today? caller: yes. guest: there actually have been changes to the way the proceedings will go today since january 6, 2021. to kind of response to some of the issues at a time. so it would actually even more difficult for there to be any overturning of these election results or even objections made. in the past before december 2022 when the electoral congress reform act was passed, all it took was one representative and one senator to object to a state collector, and that would require congress to go back for chambers to deliberate and vote on whether to honor that objection. now it takes far more than just one senator and one representative. it takes 1/5 of each chamber in order to even have a vote.
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procedurally, it is much more difficult now than it was even january 6 of 2021 to even object to state electors. we also have no indication that there's even going to be an effort to object. even vice president harris will be overseeing this process and she has been very clear that donald trump won the election. host: that was a great wrap up. i would just tell sylvia that we are going to die even deeper into what specifically happened today in the history of the electoral vote count at on this program. kevin kosar, longtime scholar of congress writes about her and he will be joining us. thank you for that. this is tom in philadelphia, democrat. good morning. caller: good morning. this sounds like a trivial thing but it really does have meetings. on january 6, 2021, when trump
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was in his office watching january 6, i think it would be nice to know what he was ordering from the kitchen. and it sounds trivial, but i'm pretty -- host: why do you want to know that? caller: i'm pretty sure he was eating food while everybody like myself was stunned. remember those 86 minutes when he didn't call? was he satiating his food, his appetite with things? that is what a real fanatical dictator does. host: tom in philadelphia. we've had this committee on january 6, there republican committee that looked into january 6. if they're going to be another january 6 committee and the 118th congress? guest: i'm not sure that there will be, although we do know that trump has made it clear he plans even on day one to pardon
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some of the people who participated in the attack on the capitol who have been met with the law and who are in prison, some of them. there is a chance that there is some kind of investigation on that side of. we know that republicans want to dig into have a january 6 fallout went and how people have those investigations played out, but we also know that many republicans are trying to move past january 6 entirely, that is kind of their line when you asked him about it, they are looking forward, not to the past. at least for now i expect january 6 not to be a topic. host: less than 10 minutes left this morning. first time on since you wrote the story back in december about the senate, about a bipartisan border deal. what have been the developments in what is the deal? guest: we know for sure that
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there are many democrats were much more willing now than even a few years ago to talk about border security, to talk about immigration reform. many of the people i talked to who expressed interest in moving forward with this are people who are in these battleground states, people who are either in border state or battleground states like arizona, pennsylvania, other places as well. democrats have certainly shifted what they are willing to talk about when it comes to immigration in a way that is very unique and if there was to be a separate porterville outside of reconciliation, it would be interesting to see how many democrats would be willing to actually get on that. many people i've spoken to say that first they want to try to get as much done as they can for reconciliation, get significant funding for the border, deportation efforts and infrastructure and do what they can. republicans only first, but i do think this is the space to be watching especially since the president-elect indicated that he might be willing to do
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something to protect dreamers, people who were brought to the u.s. illegally as children but now they are adults but don't have any legal status. host: who are the potential dealmakers here on both sides? who would be the go to for a republican looking to make a deal to start to try to bring in democrats? what republican would be leading the effort in the 119 congress? guest: mark kelly in arizona has been someone who has always been relatively moderate when it comes to his immigration proposals. he has been an advocate for border security so he would be one democrat that you could look to. center veteran from pennsylvania was one white top 2% he has maybe not been involved in conversations so far but he would be very talk republicans and try to work some thing out on this issue. on the republican side, lindsey graham will be a key voice. he's done immigration legislation in the past so he could be a voice there. john cornyn in texas could be another one, known for working
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bipartisan deals. james lankford was a republican who led the last round of these bipartisan talks which ultimately ended in failure, so he could be another one. but it will be an interesting watch. host: fact the sunflower state, republican, good morning. caller: good morning. the certification in january 6, what is the thirst for prosecuting liz cheney? i think there's a lot of republicans that really would not rather move on and would like some accountability from her. i know there's a lot of deep state ghouls who would like to not prosecute liz cheney and thompson. what do you think is going to happen there? guest: i mean, it is clear that trump has said that he would want to prosecute some of his enemies.
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he's also referred recently to his pick to lead the justice department, pam bondi is looking likely to get confirmed there. kash patel will be another key voice to watch, and that is something that we are all watching very closely. when we see some of these leaders kind of respond to these years of republicans criticizing the public is asian of -- polarization of the industry and whether they refuse to go after the president's critics in their own way will be something we are watching very closely. but it's unclear what the real appetite is. there are a few voices among republicans to see this aggressive action, and there are others especially on the hill who would much rather focus on getting legislative priorities done first, focus on being proactive, getting border policies in place, and that has really been the focus from republican and two. host: just to remind the color interviewers, donald trump has asked about this last month, this is 90 seconds on that
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question of prosecuting potentially liz cheney. >> do you think liz cheney should go to jail? from: from what? i think everybody that voted in favor -- >> are you going to direct the fbi to center to jail? >> not at all. i think they should look at that, but i'm going to focus on drill, baby, drill. >> when you tap these people to lead the justice department and fbi -- >> they could do whatever they want. biden could give then started if he wants to, and maybe you should. just remember, a year and a half of sworn testimony and after getting all of the testimony, they deleted it and they destroyed almost everything. there's nothing left. it is unprecedented. if you do that in a civil case you go to jail. >> you know they deny doing that and officials say that order never came in.
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let me ask you this event january. from: he wrote in a statement that he has destroyed evidence. >> let me ask you this about january 6. >> you have such potential. if you could be just nonbiased, you hurt yourself so badly. i'm telling you, they deleted and destroyed all the evidence, everyone knows it. and you slough it off like it doesn't mean anything. >> i'm saying they deny it, that is all i'm saying. >> if you did it you would be standing up in that chair shouting at me and you know what i would do, i would say you got me. host: that was donald trump on meet the press last month. he mentioned bennie thompson. what you think bennie thompson's role is going to be in the 119 congress? guest: i mean, in the minority it's going to be pushing back again on everything the homeland committee and the house.
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i think we are soloing to see the focus of that committee really shipped again and focus on border immigration. host: skip in connecticut, line for democrats. caller: i think you're fantastic. i'm changing the subject a little bit. i had to pass the fbi check to work in these schools, but here is the thing i'm talking about. they not $400 a month off my social security. that was money i worked for. i don't want food stamps, i want my social security plan.
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we are finally getting some justice on this. host: official security question. guest: that seems to not be a strong priority for republicans other trump has continued to say he does not plan to make any significant cuts to social security and despite the fact that there is going to be a lot of pressure to make spending cuts. whether it is the tax cuts or security, all these other elements that are going to cause significant money. we are talking hundreds of billions, trillions potentially for this package overall. there is going to be pushed from conservative to make significant cuts but they continue to say there will not be any cuts to social security. host: anything we haven't gotten to that you are tracking this week at axios? guest: it's going to be a busy week. just looking at one thing after the other. i will be following pretty closely how these confirmation hearings kickoff, whether we see any republicans who decide to say no.
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early on it seem like there was a push backs, but lately it seems like many republicans are willing to give trump the people that he wants in these top positions. host: donald trump entre social just about one hour ago orting elon musk saying at this election not been won by dollar trump, civilization would be lost. the latest from elon musk on this trip social page. you can get the latest on axios.com. thank you for your time. coming up at about 45 minutes, it is aei senior fellow kevin kosar. the electoral vote counting and certification process. for the next 45 minutes or so, it is open for them. any public policy or political issue that you want to talk about, phone lines are yours to do so. start calling in now and we will get to your calls right after
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the break. ♪ >> president jimmy carter, the 39th president of the united states and the nation's largest -- longest lived leader passed away at the age of 100. c-span for live coverage. the public will have the opportunity today to get a as president carter lies in those of the carter center. tuesday is jenny -- journey continues when the line at the u.s. capitol rotunda with a service attended by mentors of congress. the public will again have a chance to honor him on wednesday as his body remains in stay at the u.s. capitol. on thursday the national hero service will take place at one of the draw followed by final resting ceremony at the carter family home in georgia. once c-span's live coverage of the funeral services for former
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president jimmy carter on the c-span network, c-span now, or online at c-span.org. >> democracy was always an unfinished creation. >> democracy belongs to us all. >> we are here in the sanctuary of democracy. >> great responsibilities fall once again to the great democracies. >> american democracy is bigger than any one person. >> freedom and democracy must be constantly guarded and protected. >> we are still at our core a democracy. >> this is also a mac to -- massive victory for democracy, fofrdom. >> c-spanshop.org is c-span's online store. browse our latest collection of c-span products, apparel, books,
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home decor and accessories. there is something for every c-span fan and every purchase helps support our nonprofit operation. shop now or anytime at c-spanshop.org. washington journal continues. host: here's where we are on a snowy day in washington, d.c. president biden and the first lady are heading to new orleans today to grieve with families from that new year's day terror attack on bourbon street. that happening at the other end of pennsylvania avenue here on capitol hill, the house is in at noon, and at 1:00 p.m. it is a joint session of congress taking place for the official electoral vote counting and certification process. all eyes on the capital today and that joint session this january 6. later this week, all eyes on the
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lying in state of the late president jimmy carter. the former president, his body lying in repose of the carter center in atlanta today. funeral services in georgia taking place this week and efforts to honor him there before jimmy carter comes to washington, d.c. for a formal state funeral in atlanta of the lying in repose that is happening now. your phone calls in open forum, it is (202) 748-8000 this morning for democrats. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. we are taking your calls until about 9:50 eastern this morning so go ahead and dial in. sharon in berlin, maryland, line for democrats. caller: good morning c-span, would morning america. thank heavens for c-span and brian lamb as well. in any event, i'm calling
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regarding this tragic anniversary. i know what i was doing that day, i watched the events from start to finish. however i knew before hand as many of us did that the insurrection began long before trump summoned those flying monkeys to the capital. it started with navarro, steve bannon, rudy giuliani. they had the game plan set up so that in the event of trump's loss, they had another alternative plan, which they have stated publicly. the saddest part to me is the fact that when merrick garland became attorney general, he didn't start at the top. i'm not so much worried about the rioters in jail as i am about the conspirators who aren't in jail and should have been from the jump. so that is my take on january 6.
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host: joe biden, his take on january 6. he writes in an editorial today, he says for much of our history, this proceeding on january 6 was treated as pro forma, that after what we all witnessed on january 6, 2021 we know we can never again take it for granted. we should not forget the rights, we must remember that any nation that forgets its past is doomed to repeat it. we cannot accept a repeat of what occurred four years ago. an unrelenting effort has been underway to rewrite and even erase the history of that day, to tell us that we didn't see what we all saw with our own eyes, to dismiss concerns as some kind of partisan obsession, to explain it away as a protest that just got out of hand. this is not what happened. leesburg, florida, republican. caller: good morning. i'd like to know why when biden makes a false statement it is embellishment or exaggeration, and when trump makes a false
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statement he is a liar. and another thing is why don't you ever bring up that merrick garland's son-in-law made over $25 million selling critical race theory to schools? i called them on october 18 and i said that the fbi and the cia were consisted in getting side and elected because the fbi lied to mark zuckerberg and whoever was a commentator that day, she switched the whole subject and talk about arizona recounting and that biden actually got more votes. what does that have to do with it? it was not a free and fair election when the cia and the fbi got involved, they lied. so that is my comments. host: california, independent, good morning. caller: good morning.
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-- trespassing, what it looked like wasn't -- and that is all i have to say. host: d-maryland, democrat, good morning. caller: good morning. first of all let me say i'm a democrat, called on the democrat line, and i voted for kamala harris. was very pointed when she lost, but she lost. i hope everybody watching today, i like your story about pence and gore, and it is probably the last duty of the vice president to acknowledge they lost. among the people in their history recently, vice president
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richard nixon in 1960 had to certify the election of john f. kennedy. 1980, the vice president of the late jimmy carter acknowledged with a moderate humor -- with a lot of humor, election of ronald reagan. and of course in 2000, al gore. but the one thing i want to say is people are released -- really upset about january 6 four years ago. and tycho get how people are still wrapped up in this. i voted against president trump, but we've got to move on. the people that say that cops were waiting us, let's do a
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reality check. president donald trump by proclamation declared a national state of emergency for the covid pandemic. on january 5, the facility next the capitol called the visitors center, just like you screen when you get on an airplane. they were not paired to receive charges because the capital had been closed almost a year and all these people that came to washington including the late ashli babbitt, if they had done just what you would do if you
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had a reservation at a restaurant and just read the paper, you would have known the capital was closed. it's not open. they were trespassing. host: you do think we need to move on, what do you mean by that? caller: people believe the cops -- yeah, the cops were probably scared to death. over 100 cops were there, they had every right to be. but this crowd that assembled on the freezing cold day like today four years ago in front of the white house, they made the mistake of believing that donald trump was telling them the truth. host: the story that james was referring to about al gore and mike pence, it is by michael
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cruz in politico magazine. this is the headline 20 years before january 6, al gore stood up to his own party and mike pence, a new congressman at the time, was watching the certification of the electoral college vote. it was once seen as ceremonial. two moments 20 years apart remind us how high the stakes really are. a focus on al gore and mike pence. cleveland, ohio, republican. >> thank you for taking my call, appreciate it. the democrats ride this thing all the way to the finish line constantly. they tried writing it really well and they tried using it as a huge vote-get her. for nine years they've been attacking donald trump. they've impeached him twice for ridiculous things, they've done
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three horrible court cases against them that are falling apart. how does a judge that donated to biden, everybody on that side of that new york trial, he doesn't have to recuse himself at all? it is just an endless amount of things. this january 6 thing, we don't know what to think anymore. there are thousands of files. mccarthy was going to let lose a bunch of them. there's different videos of things that have gone on and disarray apps guy, -- this ray apps guy, he's not been in jail. host: would you agree with robert knight in today's washington times. january 6, 2021 with the gift that kept on giving to the democrats. at least they thought so until voters shocked them on november 5. but hope and pray that this electoral college certification
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today is conducted without any drama. caller: i think it will be fine. the thing of it is that all these files supposed to be released, when we see on tv the cop waiting people in, we see people walking through the halls with a lot of police, like toy soldiers watching people go past. the capitol chief of police was questioned in congress, and he admitted that trump had authorized troops. now there's things on the internet saying none of that is true, it has been debunked. so did trump authorized troops two days before? i've seen evidenced saying that he did. host: this is the front page of usa today. this time certification of the election is less messy for years after from supporters right at the capital. lawmakers expect calm.
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temporary fencing is back up, a special security event, designated as such. the reports today on the amount of security on capitol hill include reports about 400 or 500 national guard members being on call for this month including the inauguration ceremony on january 20. it is a busy few weeks here in washington, and as you can see, the security barriers are in place. this is eric in oklahoma city, independent. good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. i wanted to comment on january 6. the democrats latched onto it as the shiny object for the american people. the gentleman from ohio, they
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said they are reading this thing to death. and that the scheme of things, the government lied to us on just about every aspect of this insurrection, which people were killed and nobody was ever held accountable for that. the due process for the people that were was turned on its ear. they were thrown in jail, put in solitary confinement, not allowed representation. and live after lie after lie was wasted on the american people. we've never really gotten to the bottom of it and we won't get to the bottom of it until trump is in office, but the whole underpinning for this thing was -- host: what more do you want to
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know? we've had the committee hearing, republican led investigation. you say we haven't gotten to the bottom of this, what haven't we gotten to the bottom of? caller: those were shams. kind of like every time they went after trump, they were sham committees. host: the republican-led committee? caller: i don't trust a lot of the republicans anyway any farther than i could throw them, but at least 20% of the time maybe you get a straight answer from republicans. you never get a straight answer from the democrats, it's always a lie. i'm sorry, it is a sad state of affairs. i'm 70 years old right now and i've never seen a country this divided. it was divided on purpose and really feel like hopefully,
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donald j. trump will bring the country together and things will get better. but we will see. thank you for taking my call. host: the data on that day, one woman, ashli babbitt fatally shot as she tried to break into the area near the house chamber. the subsequent deaths of five police officers have been attributed to the distress and chaos of that day. one suffered a stroke immediately after the riot and four died by suicide within seven months of january 6. key west, florida, democrat, good morning. caller: thanks for letting me share. one thing i don't understand that we don't have in the united states that somebody countries have around the world is an equal rights amendment for women. you know, that e.r.a.. we have enough who voted for it. i'm really surprised.
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there is no equal pay we're still getting $.77 to the dollar . i wish that biden would step down right now, but kamala harris in his position and let her pass the e.r.a. it is so sad that we don't have rights, equal rights. i don't care if you're republican, democrat, independent, if you don't vote. there is no women what -- no reason why women don't have equal rights to the men. host: peter in rutland,
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republican. caller: thank you. months ago, the new york times headline read convicted. today he will be certified by kamala harris as elected by a vast majority of the american people. thank you. host: is donald trump street social page that we've and monitoring this morning ahead of the certification and electoral vote counting process. this is the donald trump road about 15 minutes ago. congress certified our great election victory today, it is a big moment in history. maga. vice president harris also coming a message today on her duties and obligations on this january 6, this is what she had to say. >> the peaceful transfer of
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power is one of the most fundamental of american democracy. as much as any other principal, it is what distinguishes our system of government from monarchy or tyranny. today the united states i will perform my constitutional duty as vice president of the united states to certify the results of the 24 election. this duty is a sacred obligation, one i will uphold, guided by love of country, loyalty to our constitution, and my unwavering faith in the american people. as we have seen, our democracy can be fragile, and it is up to then each one of us to stand up for our most cherished principles. and to make sure that in america, our government always remains of the people, by the people, and for the people. may god bless you, and may god
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bless the united states of america. host: that video message from the vice president being at 25 minutes ago this ahead of her duties today in that joint session of congress, taking place at 1:00 p.m. eastern time and you can of course watch it here on c-span. john, independent, good morning. caller: good morning. a couple things. some of the stuff that never was talked about during the made up thing, and i say made up, it was totally hollywood show. they even hired people from hollywood to putting on which was totally ridiculous. host: you think the entire riot was staged? caller: no, that's not what i said. i said the whole committee thing was staged.
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it was put on by hollywood. the riot happened, absolutely happened. but it was put on by the 25 people from the fbi that were in the crowd that were never talked about during the hearing. how come they never talked about those people? what were those people doing? we still don't know. no one is talking about those people. we know they work for the fbi, but we don't have a clue what they did. they also didn't call the chief of police even once. he was the chief of police at the time. why didn't he is called? host: did you read steven sund's book? caller: yes i have. host: what did he say? caller: he said it was a riot, not an insurrection. that is what he said. he said they were out of control. he had asked previously for help. nobody once given help. wherever the national guard?
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he asked for it, trump asked for it. who united? host: and you've read other books about january 6? they're having plenty from the officers were there, she's a police, including one focusing on ashli babbitt and women who were part of the crowd that went in. have you read any of the other ones? caller: i read stories from ashli babbitt's husband on who she was and what she was doing there, but no, i haven't read all the books because i don't want to see all the propaganda. again, we never heard from nancy pelosi. we never saw her emails from that day. we never saw her texts from that day. why? she was the head of security. what happened? that is unbelievable. not to say anything about the bomber. they had the bomber on the phone. how did we not know who that person is? host: on books on january 6,
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here's another one that we covered. a journalist talked about air force veteran ashli babbitt and the other women who participated in the riot at the capitol. that next chapter book store new york, you can watch it at c-span.org. this is tiffany, new york, republican. good morning. caller: hello, good morning. my question is not about what happened with the riot or anything, my question is about what is going on today. they are doing the final count today for the president. what happens if the count shows that harris wins by a margin and not trump, because they are saying things are so close.
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do we really know what, who is going to come out winning? host: do you think there will be different counts submitted? host: i'm saying i don't know. just hypothetically. host: stick around, it would be great for you to watch kevin kos ar dive into this whole process with the ballots that are counted and certified, where they come from, how they are handled in the state process before they get up here to capitol hill, what it means to count and certify them and everything that you will be seeing today as it takes place. stick around, we will get into all of that in about 20 minutes. this is jonathan in minneapolis, democrat. caller: good morning.
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first off i appreciate the opportunity to speak. i just wanted to say it is called in minneapolis, it is snowing everywhere. and let me explain to you what is going to happen next. what is going to happen is that today because of all the people who were coming there from the women's march, the people who are coming from the rallies for trump, there's going to be too much disaster going on between everybody and they are going to say we can't have it outside because there is snow everywhere. we are going to have it inside so that trump can feel good about the crowd size. and there's also been drones and all this other stuff. host: you're talking about inauguration on the 20th, you think it is going to be moved inside? caller: absolutely. that man, i will never say his name, he is not my president, what is about to occur today is the debacle of the american justice department and also the
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debacle of american human rights. and for anybody that voted for him, who voted against everyone other than themselves, they should be ashamed of the -- of themselves and what they've done to this country. if they have emotional health issues, mental health issues, whatever it may be, our social security is gone. health coverage is gone. anything that you need from now on. there is a new virus going around in downtown or anywhere else in the country. anybody say anything about it yet? not yet. host: he said it was a cold and snowy minneapolis. it is a cold and snowy washington, d.c. today. the snow has been coming down since late last night and it is expected to be pretty steady throughout the day until this evening. the electoral vote certification
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process will happen. mike johnson saying despite the weather, this will happen today at 1:00 p.m. eastern, and you can watch it here on c-span. this is victor n'sync. for, florida, independent. caller: good to talk to you again. it really feels like we are grasping at low hanging fruit today. january 6 was a riot, that is all it was. there were criminals that broke windows, put them in jail. that is fine. but there were no weapons, none of that. host: victor, some weapons were found on people on january 6. when you say put them in jail, who do you think should stay in jail for this? donald trump has talked about partying some people.
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14 have been convicted and sentenced of seditious 379 charged or convicted of assaulting police officers and media. 287 on felonies of rioting property destruction, death, firearms counts, those weapons that were found. 869 have been charged with this demeanors related to january 6. if you are going to pardon anyone or all of them, who would you pardon? caller: who what i pardon? host: that is the question. caller: we broke up for a second who what i pardon? i would pardon the people that did not have those weapons. that is what i was talking about. he did not mention what weapons. are we talking about flagpoles? host: there have been people convicted of firearms counts related to january 6. those are some of those various
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felonies, of the 287 felonies people have been charged with. >> are we allowed to carry concealed weapons in this country? >> i think you can in florida. >> absolutely. i have a problem with some of the things i am hearing on here. i love the comments about trump spending 80 minutes watching tv. he sent three emails, i think two to the d.c. mayor and want to nancy pelosi saying we are hearing some chatter over the airwaves about there being a riot. can you do anything about that? but she did nothing. i believe she was in charge of the capitol police. she did nothing. nothing was done. this is a plan. she let it go and then said we will use it against him. that did not work. part of the problem in this country is the democrats. i do not think they understand
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the meaning of the words they use. women have penises. men have babies. republicans are fascists. they need to crack the spine on the dictionary and take a peek. host: victor in florida. this is malcolm, republican. good morning. >> i could not get the democrat number. i am a democrat. host: we want to keep the calls on the phone lines you identify with because it should make it fair for both calling in. call back on the line for democrats if you are a democrat. this is april in pennsylvania on the line for democrats. go ahead. caller: i feel like i am in some kind of bizarre universe watching some crazy movie. how are we still arguing about what happened on january 6?
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if we walk into any federal government building, usually it is like we have to be orderly and respectful. we probably get searched. it was a riot. how do we not see what happened? we need to stop listening to soundbites and propaganda. go back to critical thinking and use our actual eyes and see more than one point of view. i cannot believe we are still having this discussion, that january 6 was not an insurrection. i am sad and nervous and scared for our country. i wish people would be talking more about why trump would want to hold a victory rally the day before the inauguration when the inauguration is his victory rally. should we be looking at history?
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what happened in history that would be similar to this victory rally? just like how he had that madison square garden rally. it is similar to nazis. i am terrified. i am scared. i do not know how we as a country can come together instead of arguing and fighting one another. we need to come together as a nation and heal and actually learn real history and stop listening to propaganda. host: that is april in pennsylvania. matt is in baton rouge, independent. caller: january 6 was not an insurrection. it was a riot. to call it an insurrection when we had cities that were walled off from the police during the riots of the summer and call
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those protests and what happened on january 6 and insurrection, that is a foul. that is insulting. those riots were something else. cities were burning. but that was a peaceful protest according to the press. that is my second point. the press and the media and news that people have distrust with is because of misleading people for a long time now. if the press would start talking about the truth, exposing some of the corruption in congress on a regular basis rather than covering it up or ignoring it, you might get more followers and believers and some integrity back in journalism. host: when was the last time you
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trust of the press? caller: i trusted the local press more than national press at this point because i can see what is happening in my town and how it is publicized. as far as national coverage, you have to take that with a grain of salt because they're so much corruption. host: did you ever trust it? when? caller: it has been decades. that follows with this whole peaceful transfer of power. when did that become a catchphrase whenever we have had an election for president? when did that start? host: you do not think we should have a peaceful transfer of power? caller: i do, but wonder that become a catchphrase as part of the process? host: you think that is a new thing?
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caller: it is. i mean in the last 10, 20 years. i have been voting for 40 years and i do not remember that being part of the process of making it a statement more than once in a single speech like they do now. host: this is john in texas, independent. good morning. caller: i have been listening to your show for quite a while. as you pointed out to a few, it seems ignorant to what is going on in the country. some of these people are making this up as they go along and it is just a terrible indictment of the people that are voting. if any of these people voted at all. it seems as though they follow trump, and he is going to unite the country. he is going to divide the country even more than it is.
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that is all i have to say on the subject. host: from the white house historical society on the peaceful transfer of power, the white house is a stage for a peaceful transfer of power from one and ministration to the next and exhibits online, discover how the transfer from john adams to thomas jefferson back in the early 1800s featured -- set this precedent of a peaceful transfer of power. a senior historian speaks to the white house historical association. you can learn about the long history of that. this is charlotte, north carolina, democrat. caller: good morning. thank you for having me and letting me speak. i do not look in the past of anything. i know there was an insurrection, but we need to
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look into the future. donald trump and the project 2025 is what i am concerned about. what are citizens supposed to do to get their children educated if they defund public education? host: this is mary, republican. go ahead. caller: good morning. thank you for allowing me to speak this morning. i think the lady just said on the call before about public education. i think there is too much government involved in everything. put it back to the states. for january 6, that was a riot. it was no different than black lives matter burning down cities. i think the media feeds on all
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of this. they need to get back to being truthful and stop being one-sided. host: this is linda, an independent at north carolina. caller: one thing nobody has mentioned when everybody's try to figure who to blame for january 6 and whatever you want to call it that happened, they say they tried everything, they called the police and the national guard. and the one thing they do not try was when president trump finally washed down and said ok, go home. everybody laughed. is that a clue to who is responsible for this thing? host: about five minutes left in open forum. we are showing you pictures around the united states capital today.
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security is high today and will be through the inauguration. yesterday, amy klobuchar spoke about security on capitol hill, comparing it to four years ago. >> what we found out last january 6, and this could have been any event but this one is etched in our mind forever with the police officer dying and so many people hurt, we had cops that cannot get at their riot gear. it was locked in a bus. a four hour delay to call in the national guard because of some rule that created a phone tree. the architect, who is kind of the boss, was not even there. these were genetic changes we made. 103 recommendations and my job as chairs of the rules committee . to make sure we have a new police, increase more out, hundreds of more officers come and we have a plan and strategy in place.
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that is not to say there are not threats all the time on members of congress or the capital, but i feel strongly we have made major shifts. what happened last time to officers will haunt me forever. does anyone have a plan? the answer from leadership back then was no. now we have clear leadership in place. host: senator amy klobuchar, part of the administration of the agencies on capitol hill, oversight of the capitol and architect of the capitol, the government printing office, and others. those are some of the scenes you're seeing on your screen, a snowy morning on capitol hill. it is open forum. this is paul in new york, a democrat. caller: i want to speak about the incoming administration and
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how everybody thinks donald trump will not be doing any more to divide this nation that he already has. if i'm to take the man at his word, when he was on the campaign trail he campaigned on retaliation for those that dared go against him or spread lies. we just have one case ended were a journalist who made a statement about donald trump settled for several millions of dollars. that might be more evidence of what is to come in the next four years of trump's second presidency. i do not have much faith in republicans who swear to this kind of man as opposed to the nation, which is what i have been seeing. the next congressional term probably will not fare much better. host: carl, last caller in open forum, republican from florida,
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go ahead. caller: i am sick of this insurrection talk. the problem with the democrats is they try to create a narrative of something that was more than it was. it was a riot. and the press you in particular being a washington post individual, you have done nothing but help support this lie. we all watched what happened. we all saw it was nothing more than a riot. and much less of a riot then we saw in minneapolis and other places. people are fed up with lies. people can say what they want to about trump. he is giving you the truth most of the time. it is ridiculous. it really is. people are fed up. and i wanted to get retribution. i wanted him to go back to these people that have done nothing but lie and create this
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narrative that is totally false. host: when you say retribution, what do you mean? caller: i want him to go after it and investigate it. if they have done wrong what they need to be put in jail. these people sitting in a washington, d.c. jail that have not had to process and been sitting there for years, what a travesty. you let these people burned on minneapolis for nothing and these people have been sitting in jail for years without even having a trial. that is not america at all. host: what do you think of the people who have gone on trial and been convicted of various crimes? do you think any or all of them should be pardoned or have sentences commuted? caller: i do not think you can get a fair trial in some cities in this country, washington, d.c. being one of them. i think they were overcharged and over sentenced. i do not have a problem with him pardoning them all.
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host: that is carl in florida. 45 minutes left this morning. we will be joined by kevin kosar to discuss what is happening today in that joint session of congress, what it means to count and certify electoral votes. we will be right back. ♪ >> democracy unfiltered. experience history as it unfolds with c-span's live coverage this month as republicans take control of both chambers of congress and a new chapter begins with a swearing in of the 47th president of the united states today, live from the house chamber.
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witness vice president kamala harris preside over the certification of the electoral college vote, where the session will officially confirm donald trump as the winner of the 2024 presidential election. on january 20, tune in for all-day coverage of the presidential inauguration as donald trump takes the oval office. stay with c-span this month for live, unfiltered coverage of the 100 19th congress and the presidential inauguration. c-span, democracy unfiltered. >> if you ever miss any of c-span's coverage, you can find it online at c-span.org. videos of key hearings, debates, and other events future markers that guide you to interesting and newsworthy highlights. these appear on the right-hand side of your screen when you hit play on select videos. this makes it easy to quickly get an idea of what was debated
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and decided in washington. scroll through and spend a few minutes on c-span's points of interest. democracy is not just an idea. it is a process shaped by leaders elected to the highest offices and entrusted to a select few. it is where debates unfold, decisions are made, and the nation's course is charted. democracy in real time. this is your government at work. this is c-span, giving you your democracy unfiltered. ♪ >> he has a phd from the university of south carolina in history. he wrote a book titled nine presidents who screwed up
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america. his view is not the traditional one you get for most historians. in the back of his book, the liner notes claim the worst presidents are the ones who want to reform the country through the power of the federal government, which usually means usurping the power of congress or the people. he focuses a negative spotlight on abraham lincoln and barack obama and others. >> brian mcclanahan with his book "nine presidents who screwed up america and four who try to savor" -- to save her." >> "washington journal" continues. host: kevin kosar joins us now, a senior fellow at the american enterprise institute and host with the understanding congress podcast, joining us to help understand today's electoral
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vote counting and certification process. just explain what is going to happen in this joint session today at 1:00 p.m. eastern. guest: today is an important day. it is the second to last step in the process we use in america to select a president. the process began in november with the general election. after that, we had the electoral college and now we move to the process by which congress seems from the states their reports of who voted for which candidate and congress proceeds to count them out loud and officially declare who won. this is a rare joint session of congress, so we will see the house intercession today around 1:00 and then we will see senators file into the chamber and join their legislative colleagues.
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then they will open the envelopes and see who each state voted for and officially announce the results. host: are there any surprises in this process? guest: hopefully there will not be any surprises. as we saw four years ago, anything is possible. we have a recent history where there for equally are members of congress who want to object to particular states' electoral votes. they want to claim that there is something wrong with them and therefore that congress should consider not actually counting them, but i am hoping we are not going to see any of that today. host: these envelopes you talk about being opened, explain their path to capitol hill today. guest: we have a decentralized system. it is not the federal government who mends our elections and man's polling places or anything like that.
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this is a state driven process, so states conduct elections. it is they who select individuals who represent the public and convene in the electoral college. at the end of the process, you get generation of a certificate of ascertainment. for those of you on twitter, i tweeted out and tag washington journal on a couple examples of what the certificates look like, where the governor and other officials sign and say here are the individuals who have received our state's electoral votes. >> how do they get to capitol hill and what happens to them after they are counted? guest: multiple copies have to be produced by demand of the constitution. some have to go directly to the u.s. senate. that is because the vice president, also the president of
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the senate, is the person who presides over the counting, so another set of copies also goes to the national archives, where they will be kept along with our other precious historical records. host: who are the other key players? guest: you need a speaker of the house to get the session up and running. fortunately, late last week we brought -- we were able to do that. you also need everybody in congress to show up and participate in the process. this is a sort of formality. we already know mr. trump and mr. vance won the presidential and vice torres, but it is a ceremony in which we officially deem the race done and decided and except the victors. host: the certificate of
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ascertainment, there are a couple examples we can show to viewers, including an elaborate one from the state of ohio signed by who in the state of ohio? guest: you usually see a governor's signature. that is one of the things the electoral count act was adopted to do. we have a constitution that lays out the basic process, saying congress has to come to this joint session and has to take state electors and count them up and declare who won, but the question is whereto the certificates come from and how do you know they are official? more than a century ago, the electoral count act was adopted after the contested 1876 election because they were certificates sent in. in 2020, we also saw that, unofficial certificates being sent in claiming that mr. trump had won when he had not.
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host: could that happen today? guest: it could, but i have not heard reports of alternate certificates being submitted. host: what happened with the electoral count act in the wake of the events of january 6, 2021? guest: congress woke up and realize this very old law written in antique and stilted language needed to be updated. there have been scholars for 30 years saying, congress, this law is poorly written. the words can be difficult for a modern audience to understand and easily exploited by lawyers. unfortunately, congress did not take action and it took the events of january 6, 2021 to spark action. congress did good work. it was bipartisan work. you had multiple groups working on new drafts to amend the
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statute and the changes were significant. they basically took rules around the process of clarifying who won the presidency and tightened them up, so it was harder for crafty attorneys and partisan politicians to manipulative the process and try to throw it off the rails. one thing we will see today in the chamber is that they attempt to pause the proceedings by objecting to the state electoral vote, it is going to have to be a higher threshold. it used to be you only needed one representative and one senator to pause the counting and force the joint session to split into the house and senate debating separately. now you need to get 1/5 of all senators to agree to object and 1/5 of all members of the house. there are also limited grounds on which you can object. you can have them limit
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objections to two technical things, which i will not elaborate on, but you can no longer get away with saying i have suspicion that there is fraud here and derail the process. host: did that happen in the past? guest: most certainly. one of the things i put out this morning are examples of democrats and republicans rising and making allegations. in 2016, i have video of representative jim mcgovern of massachusetts, democrat, saying i object to this particular state's electoral slate, i believe alabama, because they were engaged in propaganda and misinformation so we cannot trust those results. he was joined by a number of other democrats that year. obviously republicans did their own thing in 2021 and more than any in history got up and raise
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objections to various electoral slates. host: our objections limited to modern political history or was this happening in the 19th century and previous elections? guest: the first modern example was in 1960 where we had this weird situation where hawaii declared richard nixon the victor over john f. kennedy and the official certification was sent to congress but in the course of doing a recount they declared that kennedy had beaten nixon. in the meantime, the democrat electors had sent in a separate certificate to congress and richard nixon was the sitting vice president and had to preside over the chamber, so he had multiple certifications in his hand and was a little before old for a time on what to do about it. ultimately, it was decreed that hawaii's votes would go to mr. kennedy, but it was -- disputes
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go way back and it was the toxicity and intractability of the 1876 dispute which was just paralyzing for a while and ultimately to trying to develop rules of the electoral count act that would clarify who wins and what was an adequate basis for objecting. host: this image of a sitting vice president counting votes in an election they lost and announcing the winner and that they themselves have lost an election -- is it a uniquely american thing that happens? guest: as far as i know. it is an episodic unremarkable thing. we are going to have to see today ms. harris, our vice president, standing before the chamber and going through this process.
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previously, in 2016, we had vice president biden atop the chamber and he was fighting off various objections from democrats and saying this is not an order, you do not have somebody in the senate who agrees with you so we cannot entertain your complaint about the process. i think it is a healthy thing. host: kevin kosar is our guest, senior fellow at the american enterprise institute. his podcast is understanding congress. it is set to take place in the joint session today. you can watch on c-span. for the next 30 minutes, we are taking more phone calls if you have questions or comments about this process. (202) 748-8000 for democrats to call in. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. kevin kosar, as folks are
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calling in, do you think the events of january 6, 2021 changed this process or how this day is viewed in america? guest: i think previously it was something that was largely done on autopilot. your average american certainly paid little attention to it, some exceptions being the dedicated folks who watch c-span and are engaged deeply in our civic life. 2020 one just shattered that and created a sense of anxiety about something that could be trusted to come off well could go off the rails. to make a broader point about that date and what has happened since then, law is something we used to try to coordinate ourselves as human beings. we try to pass a law and say this is what you can do and
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cannot do. on a whole range of topics. we cannot all remember what laws are enforced all the time. we cannot understand fully what laws were adopted for, what the people who wrote them end. when congress did not pay close attention to the electoral count act and kind of let it sit for 140 years, everybody sort of forgot why we had the process and how it was supposed to work. it took that terrible day four years ago to remind us we have to follow it and be faithful to it. and we have to have a shared understanding of why we do it and how. host: this is harold in rosewood heights in illinois, line for democrats. guest: i do not know why we need an electoral college, but that
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is a different thing. i was wondering, however long we have been doing this, how may times people have voted against certification of the votes and i would like to know if maybe -- i have been listening to the program all morning. everybody confused about what happened four years ago. they beat have that trial that trump has been putting off and instead of going after the king -- we already have all the ponds. there are a bunch in prison already. and we cannot get the king because they have already certified that he is king and cannot be touched. why don't we go after the senators and house representatives who voted against it after they hid underneath the capital because of the riot and they knew that it was wrong? mitch mcconnell came out the next day and said it was wrong and why we cannot get them and
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have it televised on tv to where they will public can take it in and then we will have the truth. because in court you cannot just come up with some kind of theory. you have to have facts. that is what the country is lacking, facts. guest: let me speak to the issue of when congress has voted on the -- voted to reject or not reject electoral slates. he saw that in 2021 with the house and senate separated to vote on at least two state electoral slates and in each case they voted to accept them by overwhelming majorities. we also saw it in 2005. i believe it was 2005 where george w. bush was reelected. there was an allegation raised
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that ohio's electoral votes were in some way corrupted and voting machines had been rigged by republicans, so democrats in the chamber objected and we had a democratic representative and senator so they had to break and go separately debate ohio. that ohio slate was excepted. the votes were not rejected and then there was the peculiar 1960 situation where you had two different certificates and they had to decide it. the good news is we have not had an instance where a state electoral slate has been thrown out and therefore votes have been taken away from a presidential candidate or vice president candidate and the result of the election corrupted. host: this is mike in ohio, independent. good morning. caller: as an independent, i feel free to comment on both
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parties as well as to criticize them. i will start withcomplimen -- i will start with compliments. i have to compliment the capitol police. he risked his life. he ran away from where the voting was taking place. he was the ultimate patriot that day. he put his life on the line. the republican who was a patriot that day was none other than mike pence. those are my two heroes. i believe mike pence -- before he was elected vice president. the only one not to do that was a guy named donald trump. i have to criticize the democrats for trying to impeach him a second time after that. what they should have done instead is tell the republicans we will not prosecute him. we will not put him in prison,
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but we need to pass a law that says nobody can run for president unless they reveal their tax returns. if they did not pay their taxes, they can pay with ao and move on. that is a conflict of interest. donald trump has traveled around the globe many times and met many world leaders. if anybody needs to have his taxes examined, it would be donald trump. host: any thoughts on tax returns and presidents? guest: not so much on tax returns and presidents. there is legitimate concern about knowing whether officials are in hock to foreign powers or something like that. it might be manipulable, but to go back to the caller's initial point, i would like to mention some of the heroes on capitol hill on january 6, 2021 where the congressional staff, people who were involved in helping
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congress carry off this process and to also critically protected the state electoral certificates. today when you watch on c-span, you will see these boxes being carried in by staff and these boxes contain the official certificate. those certificates could have ended up lost or trashed or burned when protesters stormed the capital and congressional staff rose to the moment and protected them last time around. host: a question from dan in pennsylvania. what role does the supreme court have in certifying an election of the president of the united states? guest: thankfully, they have no direct and immediate role. under the modified updated electoral count act, it is possible that a dispute at the state level about certification of the election can be appealed
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to the federal courts and could get its way to the supreme court, but if the process is working properly the supreme court stays on the sidelines. >> a call or a minute ago said mike pence is one of his heroes from that day. this is from politico magazine, some new reporting about interactions between al gore and mike pence. this is the first two paragraphs or so. last summer at the memorial service, two former vice president had a conversation. al gore thanked mike pence, according to people close to both men, in an interaction never reported for his actions at the capitol the day it was attacked by a mob. mike pence said something surprising in response. he suggested to al gore that he had done what he had done on january 6 2021 in part because
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what he had seen as a newly sworn in member of congress on january 6, 2001. he had witnessed a vice president stand up to pressure from his own party to defy the constitution even though doing so i definition meant personal defeat. i never forgot it, mike pence said to al gore. you do not know how much that means, al gore said, coming from you. guest: it is terrific. thank you for sharing that with me. it speaks to a real truth about congress, which is that you do have these moments where members all the time rise above naked partisan self-interest and just play by the rules or do the right thing and when they do that you hope it rubs off on some other members. and that everybody can lift their game. there is nothing wrong with competing fiercely and disagreeing and debating, but
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the rules are the rules. for this representative government scheme to work, we all have to be willing to play by the rules. host: about 20 minutes left with kevin kosar this morning. this is ray in syracuse, republican. caller: a previous caller brought up what he thought the solution should be part of the solution on this january 6 issue , that the democrats should present the facts in front of congress and my first thought is they will never do that. the reason is because that would require them to also put the democrat bad things they did and what they did to cause january 6 and it would be significant.
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it will probably be more illegal and against the rules then what the republicans may have done and another caller after that asked about should people who want to run for president divulge financial information in detail so they do not actually -- they are not allowed to run if they have these problems with how they are there money? the same principle would follow with that. the democrats would never agree to that because they also are doing illegal and nearly illegal things to make their money and they are using their office just like the republicans are to get things that they want. they would not want to have to divulge their bad things, so it would never be allowed. they will never do that. that is why they do not do it now. you almost never see i did bad,
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you did bad. it is so rare that i cannot remember the last time that happened. host: what do you want to pick up on? guest: first, the concern about corruption in congress is eternal. we have just never had a moment in history where voters could feel confident congress was not in some ways on the take. 150 years ago, corruption was brazen. you had lobbyists and plutocrats walking onto the floor congress and simply hand cash or stock certificates to members of congress. now it is more subtle with campaign donations and the like. and concerns about using insider information and legislators using that to trade stocks. so try to get to a fully trustworthy congress is something we keep pursuing but
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it is not easy. as for the discussion around january 6, 2021, it does not feel to me like democrats or republicans are for the most part in a place where they can have a super conversation about it even four years later the emotions are still raw. narratives are conflicting. hopefully we will get to a point where we can have an honest conversation at some point. host: gregory is next out of massachusetts, democrat. caller: my biggest concern about the certification -- he brought up a point about 2016 in alabama. one member had concerns about interference and i want to say i feel 90% of republicans have not taken the information about the recent trial of alexander
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smirnov and i suggest all of them who believe democrats are lying look up those facts. and also i believe it is disgraceful they feel democrats are lying more. if you go to trump's financial scheme, he was clearly working with putin in russia in 2016. just the lies told about the "biden crime family" and everything, you have to look up this alexander smirnov trial and come to grips with who you feel is really lying. guest: we are at a weird point in history of where your average american is not particularly
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politically polarized. they tend to look at each party with a little suspicion and often hold their nose and vote for one or the other when they have to, but there is a portion of the population divided into a kind of redshirts versus blue shirts and they have a remarkable ability to look at reality and filter fact in ways that fit preconceived notions and it makes it difficult to have political conversations about serious issues. we have seen that with january 6, 2021. we have seen it with allegations of corruption. it seems like we cannot focus on the facts. everything gets run through these kind of prefab mindsets that are partisan and motivated to reason in a way that is self-justifying. host: the snow is starting to
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come down here in washington, d.c.. you can almost not see the capitol dome and we are a block and a half away here in our studios. a question from if you were saying, as a new yorker i feel disenfncsed, like my vote does not count. has there been debate about reforming the process? guest: there has been long-standing complaint about the electoral college, that it is a vehicle for having americans vote as states as opposed to voting as individuals . we have seen instances way personal be elected president. they have electoral votes to win , more than 200 70 and yet they lost the possible -- popular vote and that creates this a dense and the minds of many who
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say we should be moving to something like a direct national vote. whether you want to do that or not do that, the obvious challenge is to amend the constitution, which is a complex process and folks who live in a less populous state, whether delaware or south dakota, are going to have strong feelings about that. more broadly, the feeling of disenfranchisement -- we have seen a lot of state-level reform action trying to open up primary elections so you have multiple parties running candidates and voters feeling like they can vote for a third or fourth or fifth party candidate and that they will not be wasting their vote and there is the hopes among some reformers that that sort of thing will bubble up and produce members of congress, at least more of them than we
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currently have who are not affiliated with the two major parties right now. host: next, out of illinois, and independent. caller: i am on the national archive electoral college website right now and if they are having this certification -- i am not seeing a certificate of ascertainment for 21 states. most of them republican. they voted republican. by the way, the insurrection, january 6, that was incited by trump for overthrow of our elections, but where are 21 states and their certificates of ascertainment? they are missing. how can there be any kind of vote today? host: do you want to explain what is going on in terms of where these are?
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guest: i also popped by the national archives webpage last night and i was looking around because i wanted to share examples and i noticed only some of them were posted. the constitutional process only requires certificates get to the senate. those are ones that are officially counted. the wants to go to the archives are critically important. congress will be able to do the counts today because the states have sent them electoral certificates of ascertainment. host: where did they go after they are counted and certified? guest: the senate copies -- i am not sure what they do with them. host: we will go to brian in south carolina. you are next.
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caller: i heard the gentlemen talk about the alternative electors in 1960, the year i was born. they had them in their hands according to what he said. i am wondering about the ones being charged. they are called illegal electors. they are being charged and prosecuted and these were actually in hand in 1960 and that proves to me there is a two tiered justice system and i heard them called illegal electors on this show. i will let you say what you want to say. host: -- guest: let me clarify. 1960, they counted the votes and said, ok, mr. nixon won, but we
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are going to do our duty and send a certificate saying mr. nixon won. you had democrats that said there were all sorts of problems where it was a close election, very small victory. we are doing a recount. we do not agree with this and we to make it clear to washington, d.c. that we do not agree with this, so they sent an alternate certificates for that purpose and they did a recount and then reissued a certificate officially saying we the state of hawaii, our previous certificate was incorrect. here is the corrected one. in 2020, we had something different going on. we had states sending in certificates of ascertainment but legislators who just met separately and sent them in. not all these people were certified electors, which is what you have to be to put your name on one of these. you had places where people were
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saying a state legislator can cynthia overrule the people -- can simply overrule the people's vote and declare different electors. what they were doing was in contrast to the official law. they had gone outside the official legal process. they had not finished litigation in court, so there were any number of problems with the way it was conducted in 2020, but to this point, which is in 1960 and 2020, you had people at the state level saying our state did not do the process right and therefore something is wrong with the certification and this is why we are protesting. host: edward in massachusetts is next. you are on with kevin kosar. caller: i am 100% for making the
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president and all of congress and the senate, to make it mandatory that they show their tax returns added on to be mandatory that anybody running for those offices show their tax returns to the people. we live in a free country. for a free country to stay a free country, we have to have these rules and regulations, but it seems these rules and regulations do not apply to everybody. that is not right. >> i appreciate the desire for transparency because nobody wants corrupt politicians. we do not go to the voting booth saying i like this guy. he is fantastically corrupt. that is not the way the voter behaves. we want people to be honest, not crooked. the question is how do we get there? one thing congress did was pass
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legislation called the stock act which aimed to bring transparency to whether legislators were using inside information to line their pockets by picking stocks or dumping stocks they held because they knew the stock was going to go up or down. that legislation is valuable. there have been calls from democrats and republicans in congress to do something more robust and it will be interesting to see whether the coming congress takes enough because we have populists on the left and right and this is something where they may join hands and say we are going to do something to improve transparency and hopefully decrease corruption. host: do you want to talk about the understanding congress podcast and other topics you recently covered? guest: i started the podcast
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with the help of the american enterprise institute and the aim is to put out a podcast that explains this remarkably complicated, often head scratching institution we know as congress. each episode involves me talking about some niche area of how congress is operating, so for example i spoke with a former member of congress who was a chair of the ways and means committee and how does this committee do what it does? is it bipartisan in nature? what is it like to deal with lobbyists who care about tax policy? and podcast last about 20, 25 minutes tops, not pushing a
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political agenda, not saying this is the right or wrong answer. it is trying to better explain this institution of congress, which is often mystifying. host: what are you going to cover next on the podcast? guest: i think we are going to cover whether congress needs to strengthen its capacity to fight the executive branch on dense legal issues. the executive branch has the department of justice and an army of attorneys and lawyers who can weigh in on any number of laws and constitutional issues. congress has much to -- has a much smaller group of people can draw upon. it has to ask about legal issues , so there is an ongoing discussion about strengthening congressional legal capacity, which would help legislation better.
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caller: i thought i heard kevin say about the 2021 with ted cruz -- i'm having trouble with watching tv. so ted cruz -- can you tell me what ultimate process or what ted cruz and the republicans wanted out of that objection? that never got debated, right? that never went back to their chambers because of the riot. guest: mr. cruz and mr. hawley and a number of individuals in the republican party did raise objections. all you needed in the old rules was one representative and one senator to separate chambers and
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they did go to separate chambers. what mr. cruz wanted was to set up a special commission to look at the allegations of state-level mischief around the vote and would ultimately have a short timeline to look into the matter and report back to congress and congress alternately decide what to do. something similar happened in 1876 with a contested election, but ultimately congress said we are going to follow the existing rules under the electoral count act and we are not going to go and try to create a commission. host: the house is set to gavel in at noon eastern today and the joint session set to take place at 1:00 p.m.. we will have coverage of the certification process on c-span. we hope you will watch it with us and call in afterwards. this morning, it has been kevin kosar of the american enterprise
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institute. aei.org is where you can find his work. we appreciate your time. that is going to do it for us on the washington journal. we will see you later this afternoon for that certification process in the house and joint session. ♪ [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2025] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] ♪ ♪ >> president jimmy carter, the 39th president of the united states and the longest lived leader passed away last month at the age of 100. join c-span for the live coverage of the funeral. today, the public will have the opportunity to pay their respects as president carter lies in repose. on tuesday,
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