democracy unfiltered. we are funded by these television companies and more, including comcast. >> oh, you think this is just a community center? no, it's way more than that. >> comcast is partnering with 1,000 community centers to create wi-fi enabled lift zones so students from low income families can get the tools they need to get them ready for anything. announcer: comcast supports c-span as a public service, along with these other television providers, giving you a front row seat to democracy. >> former white house chief strategist steve bana discusses the first 100 days of the incoming trump administration. he touches on elon musk's influence on president elect trump and he calls for a moratorium on immigration. this was hosted by politico playbook. secretary. [laughter] >> thank you, steve, for being here. we appreciate it. >> thanks and thanks for politico for having me. >> let's start with some of the

headlines this you've been making recently. there's a new voice in president trump's ear, elon musk. you're not happy about it. is trump to close to musk? >> it's not that i'm not happy about it-- elon musk, i think i'm the one that built a narrative and he came in in basically the spring and early summer and most importantly, he backed our play, this is going to be a maga plus election. you know, a base plus the dissident moms at the school boards and people have been trying to moderate president trump hean on the campaign trail. number one, elon musk came in and totally backed kind of the populist maga play and $250 million worth of checks to put into play, that's not tv, but that's over the nine months.

he deserves a place in the table and i think that europe has covered it pretty well, he holds the two tactical nuclear weapons of modern politics, unlimited cash and a social media platform that's not just ubiquitous, but also, he can deem who is heard and who is not heard. and there's not many governments in europe that are going to withstand that. that being said, and politico, today the piece by messerly and wren laid it out the best, this is a new coalition, much broader than '16. this is the beginning of a 1932fdr realignment in american politics and clearly you'll have members of the coalition that don't agree on everything. i do fundamentally disagree with some of the basics of the mark degreesen, zuckerberg, peter thiel philosophy of life and politics and there's going to be clashes, but i think that

politico article today is the best at summing it up. president trump is good, particularly about people arguing, you know, ideas and the best idea and the best policy wins, so, going forward it's going to be quite intense. i actually think that we're winning this round and we're winning this round pretty big. he's already backed off the h1b visas, said they have to be reformed. we said they had to be done away with. i think we'll get elon there, as soon as i can turn elon to a populist, we'll make progress. >> if you can't turn him, do you want him out? >> the bottom line, he's not totally out. there's reporting that he's going to have some access to the eob, maybe an office over there, particularly with doge so he's not going object out. when you write $250 million worth of checks, when you've got -- when you're that

involved, when you have actually backed a ground game, you're going to have a seat at the table. i argued it can't be the head of the table and shouldn't be in the cabinet room in the west wing. i'm a realist and i've had this fight before. people, i think some folks remember back in '17, elon and i went back and forth virtually every day about the ev tax credits, which i've told him at the time, people making $32,000 a year are not going to underwrite you in these venture capitalists on a company that could be worth billions and billions of dollars, maybe hundreds of billions of dollars. that was tesla and i won that round. so i've gone with elon before, we're going to go at it again. elon's not going to go away because he's got, like i say, he's got the two tactical nuclear of modern politics and he will use those tactical nuclear weapons. do you think he has too much power, posted up at mar-a-lago,

in trump's ear since the election. >> as they teach you, there's power and influence. what's shocking to me, he doesn't have much power. >> why do you say that? >> because he doesn't have the ability to actually make decisions and inform those decisions and drive those decisions. if you looked at even the time at mar-a-lago, he's come in, he's definitely had some influence and had some influence on picks, but let's go over that. he was adamant howard lutnick being the treasury, and last time i looked, scott bestler's hearing. many of his picks did not come to pass. he's had influence over policies, none of that has stuck. and the for instance, the h1 visas and the tech community

importing basically indentured servants to take over jobs. and those policies haven't stuck. a cons standpoint fight and a cons standpoint clash of ideas, and if i-- you know, i would go long the populist nationalist positions on these, the hard core american citizens come first and america comes first. elon is not going to go away and quite frankly, he shouldn't go away. i've been quite intense and part of that is to try to shift the overton window on this debate, but elon is not going to go away anytime soon and a continued clash and fight over ideas. >> how do you have that fight and how do you have that clash for those of us that don't know the inner workings behind the scenes, does that play out in public? trashing him in interviews or criticizing him on your podcast or are there conversations behind the scenes that are happening that we don't know

about? >> you know, it's still kind of shocks me the political press hasn't spent time on populist policies or even on president trump. president trump to me is -- what i mean by that, he deeply believes at a very deep level mcclellen's concepts about mass communications. president trump is about how do you connect with a mass audience and connect your ideas to the mass audience and how you read the room for a mass audience and that explains his popularity. that he's kind of hard wired into the zeitgeist of the middle class company and where they are, a lot of that is from his queens background, and to fight for ideas, do it publicly and do it using media. and i think this is the reason that war room has been such a

powerful platform. >> you were one of the architects in the first administration of the shock and awe strategy. different this time around, you're not in the white house this time around, but is there going to be the same shock and awe vibe or is it something different altogether? >> i think it's going to be much more intense. we refer to it right now, we refer to it right now as days of thunder, and i think that days of thunder, i think these days of thunder starting next week are just going to be incredibly, incredibly intense. i think you're going to see 50 executive orders, you're going to see a lot of legislation put forward, you're going to see the beginning it today with pete hegseth. it's going to be tense to the tenth power to the shock and waugh we did in '16 and '17.

there's been four years, and say what you like about project 25 and other think tanks, we spent years developing the policies, developing the executive orders and seeing the direction where we want to take this movement and also, developing personnel. you're going to see many more people hit the beach, many more cabinet people get confirmed much quicker, much more funds for ideas, many more executive orders and most of these, i think, at the beginning or all at the beginning, the 50 that they hit right away will have office of legal counsel opinions on them so i tell people shock and awe was a '17 concept. days of thunder, i think, are going to be the concept starting next monday because i believe president trump is going to hit it and hit it hard with what i call-- wall street journal calls the policy and personnel to get it done quickly.

>> heritage foundation, and aei, and those building project 25, do you think that will have an impact on some of the policies of the administration? >> steve, did we lose you? oh, this is the futuristic excitement that i was talking about. can you hear me, steve? >> dasha, i'm afraid i didn't hear you. >> can you hear me now, testing, one, two-- >> i can hear you. >> excellent, thanks for bearing with us, guys. i was saying you mentioned project 2025 and the heritage foundation afpi, the groups putting together some playbooks, do you think that will have an impact and ill filtrate some policies coming from the administration? >> all of those. 2025 becomes a buzz word, but

it's all of these different groups over-- listen, over four years, particularly people that believe strongly that the 2020 election was stolen and that president trump was the rightful president and would come back and win the primary and take the white house again. people dug down and started working these policies. what did we not get accomplished the first time? what do we want accomplished now? people found the subject matter experts and experts needed to have 3,000 people hit the beach right away don't have to be senate confirmed, but also the other thousand that have to be senate confirmed. president trump's administration this time a ten times more prepared than when we came in the first. because we were kind of a come from behind victory as you remember, we didn't have a lot of time to think through transition. there wasn't a deep bench of players that believed in president trump's philosophy. not only the most powerful

politically in washington. he has a true army in back of him of people who spent years thinking through policy and worked together for years and prepared now next monday to hit the beach and i think you see it right now what i call the flood to zone concept in the confirmations this week. you're going to see people that are coming together that have great backups, have thought through policy and prepared to, you know, hit a relatively hostile confirmation process both from-- a little bit from established republicans, but particularly the democrats and i think i call it days of thunder and i think that people are not reaped right now, particularly the press how intense it's going to be, it's years in the making. >> you talk about the army behind him now, the coalition is quite broad, it's so different, just looking at the events in this coming inaugural weekend, right, you've got the crypto ball, the young conservatives, the hispanic

ball, all of these folks that weren't engaged last time around, but that makes it a little bit more complicated, right? there are a lot of different interests. i want to talk about some of that, particularly when it comes to congress. you have speaker mike johnson who will actually be on this stage later today. johnson didn't have full republican support to be speaker. you have senate leader john thune who is a mitch mcconnell guy. are these the right leaders to enact president trump's agenda? >> let me just talk about your first part of that, about this broad coalition. think about it for a second. the democrats are the established order in washington. had every source of institutional power, they had media, they had wall street, technology in silicon valley, the corporatists, the lobbyists, populist national movement to show the power. our new coalition partners are not maybe with us ideologically, but they

understand going forward. the democrats basically, i come from a democrat family, and they lost the working class and they see the power of poll pollism. you see the collapse of the democratic party that lost some of the central parts, particularly silicon valley and a little of wall street. this is coming together and very complicated and you're going to see it play out in the halls of congress. i believe, because no one really paid attention to this radical idea, modern monetary theory, right now in washington d.c., everything we do, the war in ukraine, whether it's deportations, whether it's immigration, even deconstruction of the administrative state, everything is within the framework that a lot of the easy alternatives of how to pay for things and the sustainability not of the planet, but the sustainability of the economic and financial

model of our country and our government is going to be the number one criteria, it's going to be the prism everything is looked through and these are going to be intense battles. you can see it already, the battle on capitol hill between one and two reconciliations, this is not simply a process story, this cuts to the heart of how one is going to govern in the future. president trump has this tension at the same time has the coalition that really could end up being two-thirds of the american people handled correctly, he has to balance that within this framework of this massive debt and the refinancing of this debt and the paying for the refinancing of this debt. so, no, i think right now on capitol hill, it's going to be very intense and speaker johnson, he knows i've never been a fan, he's got a horrible job, it's a tough job, put together coalitions particularly of people that want to have significant reductions in deficits and i think just the last couple of days, the mindset in washington

is still wrong. people come up and say, we have a $5 trillion cut, but it's over a 10 year period. we have to get out of that mindset. the first two years, i put my investment banker hat on, this is a restructuring, i'm not interested in 10 years, not interested in the years five, six and seven. i'm interested in this appropriations process, i'm interested in this deficit, in this year and next year. what's the size of it, how it's going to be financed and how you have dramatic moves how to close this. this is one of the reasons i think what elon is doing at doge is central not just deconstructive administrative state, but to work with russ and scott and come up with a model that speaker johnson and thune can shepherd through the house and senate. how to get back to a sustainable model. >> are johnson and thune are

the right leaders in this moment? >> i think, look, they were picked by their house members and picked by the senate. president trump is very comfortable with both people and i think it's very important because this is like going to be going into combat. so in the moment it's going to be so intense and you have to trust the judgment of the people. president trump trusts the judgment of speaker johnson. he trusts the judgment of john thune, i have different opinions, but i'm just one in the crowd and we're going to fight very intensely for these things. president trump makes the ultimate decisions and that's why i think the first most important fight right now is on -- it's not just a process fight, it's a fight how we go forward. that's why i think the one versus two reconciliations is probably the most important fight that we're going through right now and we'll set the tone for not just the first year of president trump's second term, but i think we'll set the tone for actually how we finance this country and this government going forward.

>> i mean, on tax policy, for example, there's a lot of talk about lowering the corporate tax rate, again, these ideological differences. do you think that focus on corporate tax risks alienating the working class that you talk about. >> well, this is why i'm one voice among many. like i said, just another, and however, this is quite critical why we're fighting for two bills. we want to take care of immigration, deportation, energy, that's not revenue generating and it can start in the senate and agree with senator thune and the 53 senators who appear to agree with me. in the tax bill, one thing that's disturbing, we want the populist wing and fight not just no taxes on tips, but in jason-- i missed the part no tax on social security, no tax on overtime, no tax on bonuses. >> those are critical campaign

promises. >> our wing of the party. our wing of president trump's movement that's totally supportive of president trump want to go and have much more tax cuts for working class people and for the middle class and if the wealthy and the donors won't get their lobbyists to support smaller-- lower federal spending which they're not, they've really been the class that's driven this modern monetary theory that got us in the jam that deficits don't matter. now we know that it is, because financing and refinancing of the deficits that are killing us. in that regard to me corporate tax rates have to come up and the wealthy have to be taxed more simply for the fact we have to close this gap on the deficit on ongoing basis. if they can turn their lobbyists and support elon musk and support particularly russ on having dramatic cuts in federal spending and i mean in this year and next year, don't give me 10 years, i'm not interested-- when people tell you oh, it's $6 trillion cuts over 10 year

period, they are lying to you. this is how we got into this situation. mccarthy said we have the republican wins, these are not wins. this is another way to kick the can down the road, this has to be addressed now. we're adamant on the show and talking to people and presenting to president trump you have to have many more tax cuts, particularly taxes on social security. and reinstalling the tax cuts of 2017 for the wealthy, as you know, dasha, i had this huge fight with jerry cohen and jared kushner and steve mnuchin, i lost and they said steve bannon has to go. it's central to the american people. >> you talk about cutting at the federal level. what's the first agency you would scrap or gut. >> i spent eight years as a

naval officer and my daughter is a west point graduate, searched in iraq, bannons have a history, doing the five years as good citizens and civilian life. she's been at the support-- she'll be in the audience as a former junior officer, female officers, when i see an ndaa of $900 billion and don't see us in a confrontation with the chinese communist party, the defense budget is too big, i'm adamant that defense budget needs to be cut. >> would hegseth do at that, steve? would hegseth do that? >> when the people tell you here the problem is entilements. they're missing the point. entitlements is a contract with the little guy. they're not going to give us their social security or medicare until they see the political class and donor class actually get their arms around

discretionary spending. to get your arms around discretionary spending we have to start with the defense budget and we have to have a revolution in military affairs, that's why pete is so important, revolutionary military affairs and flows through how we have to pay for this. i'm adamant, n.a.t.o. has to pay more and the gulf em rats, and we can't have two carrier battle groups in the red sea, keeping the suez canal open, japan has to step up to the plate and people say for years we haven't done things. you've got to rethink this. if you cut discretionary spending, to rethink the defense budget and it would have an ndaa that was 900 billion given the financial situation we have and the reality of what we face now, to me, is grossly irresponsible.

grossly irresponsible, and that has to be addressed, has to be addressed head-on and that's why i think the pete hegseths of the world and the young warriors that fought in iraq and afghanistan and understand what's happening in ukraine and the middle east are the perfect leaders today to really get in back of significant changes in our defense policy to keep us strong, to make sure that we're the main thing, the main thing, which is confrontation with the chinese communist party, but are able to think through defense so we can reborder defense and get to them the social programs you're going to have to talk about and have to be reorienting and some cuts to then eventually have a conversation with the american people over entitlesments, there's not going to be a conversation where they accept the political class in washington where thing that the political class are a bunch of con men bought and paid for by

the corporations and the class today. >> i think we have hash tags today, we've got days of thunder, and those are going to come from executive orders. so what is the executive order you're fighting hardest for? >> all the one steven miller and holman got, i think a great grasp on both, on both the deportations, the wall security. that, i think, is covered by very smart guys who know this. i one i want is not the first day, but 100% moratorium on all immigration. >> including legal? >> i say legal immigration in quotes. there is no legal immigration in this country, it's all a con, it's all a con against american workers. every part of it. these programs have been so abused and so game. i believe we need a 100%

moratorium for a while to get this sorted. >> steve in a country made up of immigrants, you want 100% moratorium on immigration? >> just for a while. we need to have the facts. we need to show the facts what the visa programs have done and all testify. the programs are so obscure and behind closed doors, so complicated that we need a discussion on that and the american people are thirsting for a discussion on that. >> have you talked to president trump about this? i have not talked to president trump about this, but i do talk every day on the show about this so i know that the base of our movement and the base of our party support a moratorium. and i didn't say it's forever, but a moratorium until we get our arms around it. >> have you talked to steven miller about it? >> i've had discussions-- i've had discussions with a lot of people about this, but not

talked to the president and the other set up, refocus, and president trump is talking about a new monroe document from panama to greenland is to rethink about taxes. we have an internal revenue service set up in 1913, right, when after the upon panic of 1906, 1907, i would love to see an external revenue service we wouldn't just look at tariffs, because tariffs paid for everything until the early 20th century. you wouldn't just look at tariffs, but how you can charge fees essentially whether that's on investment, whether that's on other things of access to this country, and this is-- america's behind the golden door, okay? and this market's the most robust, lucrative market in the world and we shouldn't let foreigners have access to this market and to the american people and american citizens for free. so, i think i would love to see something that set up an

external revenue service in treasury that eventually took the burden off people in internal revenue service no reason american people, the corporations even the donor class has to pay for everything and i think we have to rethink that. things on revenue, other things on economics, on immigration i think are important and not just illegal. we've been so focused on illegal immigration, in the '16 campaign and primary one of the things the president had going for him talking about legal immigration, so game, there is no legal immigration in this country right now. >> you've got your perch in the war room, surface we know you're not going into the white house this time around. so, who is the steve bannon in this administration that's going to have trump's ear? >> i think it's a very different structure, i think that suzie is a safe pair of hands, susie wiles and i hired

her in the '16 campaign against the recommendation of president trump at the time. she's fantastic. we would not have won florida if not for susie wiles. she has a safe pair of hands and a different white house staff and going forward than the contentious in the open fighting that we had, but there were all for good reasons, there were different policies. i'm not so sure-- and when you say steve bannon, president trump has been his own strategist. if you look at the way he managed his coalition, the way he put it together, the sweep how he managed in the transition and how he'll manage it going forward, president trump is a deal guy and he understands how to, i think, juggle opposing views and quite frankly, strong personalities. so, one thing i will note that many of the strongest personalities in president trump's orbit are not going into the white house, cory

lewandowski, epstein, bannon, i see some pattern recognition there and i think all of those people are going to be very strong voices on the outside and whatever vertical they're in. i would look for president trump to have a lot of support inside the white house with a much more smoothly running operation and also, outside with allies who now have kind of their-- as you call them perches and all kinds of vert cals that can support the president and the policies he's eventually going to drive. >> susie wiles plans to be a gate keeper in the white house. do you think she can execute that role and the right people gate kept, so to speak. >> the failure of john kelly and others, president trump's president trump. he's in his 70's now, he's got a house style. he's trying to get input from a wide variety of people.

people the public don't know to bounce ideas off them. he's always seeing how it plays in the room and he's very good at judging, what people are thinking and where the country is going. this is one of his super powers, and so -- and i think that susie is smart enough. she doesn't try to go john kelly on you, and she doesn't try to hermetically seal him. and even when rupert murdoch says we're going to make you a nonperson. and there's a confidence in judgment and confidence in people who will have his back. there will be total access at one level to president trump, this is his house style. i think she is going to have a little more management, and maybe not quite so chaotic at the staff level although i will say, particularly in the first

year, all the benefits of the economy and foreign policy, the peace and prosperity of '19, those seeds were sown with rines pre bus and the team. next week, the first 100 days, fix is six months and first year, the seeds of peace and prosperity that president trump is dedicated to bring back, it's all going to be sown there. that will be where these are sown or not sown. that's why the fight this next year has been intention. >> and to be clear, there's no evidence in widespread fraud in 2020, but i don't want to look back. let's keep looking forward. >> hang on, hang on, look at jack smith. there's no thing of widespread fraud. hang on, dasha, there's a legal thing you have to do, i appreciate that.

why is the j-6 committee having people go to the white house to beg for blanket pardons. why is jack smith quitting early and-- . they're worried about the political persecution in the same way that you claim-- >> if they thought it was political persecution they wouldn't be worried. this has to be adjudicated you have to adjudicate 2020, you have to a. >> you had kate j6, the vast criminal conspiracy against president trump and on this one we're adamant. president trump needs to do this for this country not for himself, you see last night the jack smith thing is a nothing berger, total nothing berger. >> look, president trump himself has said he wants to look to the future so let's keep doing that, otherwise we'll get off the rails fast here. >> president trump does want to look to the future. he says his retribution will be peace and prosperity, that doesn't mean that some of his colleagues that understand what

they-- not just tried to do to him, but did to this country has to be adjudicated and this is going to be a big effort, i think, of people trying to get president trump on board to do that. like i said, president trump is not a vindictive person, not someone who looks for revenge, but we need to do this for country and you should know, there are elements of president trump's coalition that are absolutely adamant this has to be done. this weaponization has to be taken out root and branch. >> you say he's not a vindictive person. >> and i went to prison for months, and benny thompson, the chairman, publicly, and nancy pelosi, and today it's in punch bowl they're got a scoop how they're doing it. this is not about vindication, it's not about revenge, this is

about we can never allow this to happen again and the only way that's going to happen you have to put forth to the american people what the actual facts are, what the facts are 2020, what the facts are j6, this vast criminal conspiracy that came after president trump, hell, he was indicted for what, 92 felonies. this kangaroo court in new york has got him for 34 felonies that has to be-- from new york city to georgia, to washington d.c., that has to be fully vetted and investigated and adjudicated and i've strongly recommended a special prosecutor that doesn't report to the justice department, a special prosecutor to report right to the white house. >> steve, you mentioned your stint in prison in 2024. you're also facing trial again in february on charges related to alleged money laundering, conspiracy and scheme to defraud. trump can't pardon you in that case. how is that all going to impact your ability to help president

trump enact his agenda? >> it's not going to impact at all. first off, we'll-- the situation in new york, i'm not worried about whatsoever. we will take care of that and won't impact me. no offense, i was-- i come out of prison this time with more power, more impact, more no focus than i had going in. i'm not afraid of prison, not afraid of charges, not afraid of the kangaroo court. we'll take care of the situation in new york, another political persecution and weet' get through and won't impact me. >> lastly, i know you're close with don, jr. and the trump family dynamic, different this time around, jared and ivanka are not involved, and what do you think with the folks don and eric. >> i'm working closely with jared, i'm working closely with jared on prison reform. and bedminster, made a pakt

that president trump was reelected and i'm for the prison reform and the first step-- there will be an announcement in the future that jared and i working on the first step back and prison reform. i think don, jr. who is a fantastic guy, we're very close with don, jr. has taken more of a lead role, but eric and lara, lara did an amazing job at rnc and working well with the family and working well with jared kushner, has done something that helped this country, prison reform that we need. >> all right, steve, you have a show to record, and story for the technical difficulties, thank you very much. >> we've got a quick word from our sponsors and my colleague jonathan martin will be on