a valued member of the community. he coached his son kirby. he is survived by his three children and his wife. he will be remembered as an incredible father, husband, coach and friend. thank you. i yield back. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from georgia yields. pursuant to clause 12-a of rule 1, the cha

washington journal continues. host: a conversation on think tank 23u7bding about ben frequently 10. we should explain what the quincy institute for responsible state craft is. are you a think tank? guest: we are indeed. thank you for having me. it is a think tank and nonprofit nun partisan action tank because we are not just thinking we are trying to get stuff done. our purpose is to reduce the military decision of foreign policy appear critical we try it call out special interests

diving foreign policy. host: how are you funded? guest: we have a had the of small donors, big donors, foundation. we are in the funded by foreign governments off u.s. government and defense contractors. this really frees us it offer a clear unbuy why issed view of the policy. host: is this unusual? are most think tanks taking money from one of those they places? guest: absolutely. we are on unisland we are surrounded by other think tanks had do take money from foreign governments, u.s. government and defense contractors. many think tanks take a considerable amount of funding from those. host: what is the any tank

funding tracker? guest: to me it is a labor of love something we have been been working on a website where anybody of your viewers friends in the media and congress can go to find out how the top think tanks are funded. it provides details about the funding, what year it was received. if a fortune government, which branch of the government and whenever opinion the exact dollar amount. host: what should viewers know in the atlantic council? guest: many things. i think what they can find in about that is they are helpful furnisheded by fern governments. when fond at the received more money from foreign governments.

more than dollar 20 million and contractor funding. they get a had the of funding from the top defense contractors. sort of what we see with the they can council this huge amount of money coming in from some foreign governments and defense contractors and when try to trace it back it what the atlantic council was doing and it was mixing recommendation this is with benefit the funders. host: who are the foreign governments this give the most to american think tanks? guest: by and large it is our democratic friends, friends in nitto and united kingdom capped.

you look at the top 10 it is mostly filled with democratic regimes that are allies of the u.s. but at the very top foreign govern is the united arab emirates. they guy more. they are a authoritarian regime and complicit in war chromosome. and fund the r.s.f. who were tkhreurg genocide so we see them donating millions of dollars every year it the top foreign policy think tanks in the u.s. we also see or they are taren regimes look saudi arabia and third highest fortune government was qatar weisner authoritarian regime in the middle east the

human rights issues and qatar and u.a.e. have been cut meddling the u.s. process and can tar is giving mechanicals of dollars it think thanks in the u.s. so it is important it know that and have a clear vision of the cards on the table when they are looking at analysis in think tanks. host: the unless from your report valuable at quincy inst.org united arab emirate nearly $17 million. united kingdom $15.5. qatar $9 million, canada 8.6 million, germany 8.5 million. how were you able to track this

money and how easy was it come up with these numbers? guest: it feels painfully hard. think tanks are not required to disclose their funding and when found this more than a third of them disclose tock about their funding we call them dark money think tanks. but most of those who disclose we get sort of a partial transparency this they might release the numbers of funders but no dollar amount or release some dollar amounts but you don't relevance know how much funding is coming in. but we had it scour their websites annual reports being

the financial documents where we could track it we did. you can see system of the sources for every donation you see the source where we got the information but it was really hard to do and this process took almost a year to put together. one of the goals is we look or virus it not tack a year or something it found them and just go to or website and if they have a suspicion of somebody with a conflict of interest income go to our website and look it up in a hurry so they don't have to be a nerd like my. host: you mentioned the atlantic council. it has a donor accept temperatures policy. acceptance of any contributions is at the discretion of the council and it is isn't to a condition and anything of $250

that stipula hits the they can council is acceptin it on the condition it retains independence and control over any subscribe consistent with the independence policy. will do you mac of that? guest: it is nobel of them it put out a disclosure like this. those independence policies are in the we also know a lot of these think tanks that put out these policies, they will allow the owners to preview the research before it is published, to make comments on that research. in some cases to provide this for that research. some of these top think tanks are doing what we call pay for play research.

they pay money to get a specific report done that they have created. they are literally paying for the products that some of these think tanks are doing. the atlantic through leaked emails we learned that the uae ambassador had access to some of the atlantic council reports before they were published. the opportunity to provide his comments to scholars. our concern is that when donors are given that kind of opportunity, it really allows them to play sensor. they come back to scholars and they have unfavorable recommendations, we worry that some of this research might be bent to the winds of these foreign funders. host: it is 9:30 on the east coast. the director of -- director of

the foreign policy initiative there. phone lines for you to call in, it is split by political party. democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001 independents, (202) 748-8002. he is with us until the end of our program, 10:00 a.m. this morning. the top 10 think tanks that receive funding from the u.s. government include iran corporation at $1.4 billion, the wilson center to the tune of $52 million. the atlantic council, center for new american security, the marshall fund, carnegie endowment, brookings institution, and inter-american dialogue. why is the united states government giving money to think tanks? guest: it is a very good question. in some cases the money is going to think tanks because the

federal government needs answers to some very hard questions. the top recipient of that funding, ran is known as a federally funded research center. it is really a fancy way of saying these are the government nerds who help the government answer these tough questions that they might have. most of the research funded never sees the light of day. these are private reports usually going to the department of defense. they are hoping these scholars could help the department of defense answer some of these questions. behind the scenes, i don't see any conflict of interest or problem with that private front. we do get into some interesting questions when we think about

the federal government using taxpayer dollars to fund very public facing think tanks. we identify in the report those think tanks are promoting an agenda that would benefit the agencies that are funding them. we see this especially with the department of defense funding these hawkish think tanks that unsurprisingly recommend the department of defense. we see this cycle continuing on. host: what are some examples of that, that you would see? guest: more money going to the department of defense and then more money to those think tanks. host: which think tanks are you referring to? guest: we really see this at just about any think tank the department of defense is funding. they have service members who go on staff at these think tanks and publish research.

you really see across the board from top organizations like brookings, wilson center, any of those think tanks that are funded. there are questions about whether u.s. taxpayer dollars should be going to think tanks that are effectively lobbying the federal government. host: the department of defense the agency that gives the most to think tanks. homeland security, and so on down the line. all of this information available if you want to scroll through it yourself or call in with questions about it. this is alex up first in minnesota, independent. you are on. caller: thanks for taking my call. i have two things i was hoping to comment on. you have done a good job

commenting on reports. what about action on behalf of the donors. an example would be the marshall fund was on. they were talking about their work citing information. i called and asked if they were funded by the u.s. government and they said yes, i said don't you think this is a conflict? the person was kind of demure. i wonder if you had examples like that where they are using the cut out to achieve things the government wouldn't be able to do legally. other think tanks using cutouts by foreign government to avoid the impression of foreign government funding. they were a company. they were spreading their money around to the bidens. should they make a law so you can't take money from cutouts in that way?

i thank you for answering my questions. guest: those are absolutely excellent questions. i will try to answer in order. this in some ways has been a loophole. states are not allowed to use their funding to hire lobbyists. they cannot go out like a lot of other firms can and hire a lobbying firm. when you look at the work think tanks are doing, you are absolutely right. it's not just about the reports and the research and of it. it is really just the beginning of what they do. they are testifying before congress. they are outright helping to write legislation. if you believe funding is influencing what think tanks do, you know that think tanks are helping to write legislation you

could see a path for the u.s. government giving money to think tanks that are moving on to directly influence legislation on their behalf. there should be some serious questions asked about that u.s. government funding. the second question, this is a really good point and a pivotal issue that we are seeing more and more foreign governments turning to think tanks. we found out there was $110 million going to think tanks, that amount of money has gone up in the last five years almost every single year. foreign governments are turning to think tanks more and more to influence the u.s.. a big reason they are doing that is think tanks don't have to disclose their funding. they don't have to disclose a nickel that they get from foreign government. if that foreign government hires

a lobbying firm or pr firm they will have to register under the foreign agents registration act. there's a lot of filing requirements. everyone has to report how much money they are giving, the firm they higher has to report everything they are doing. to fund a think tank you don't have to report any of that. we see think tanks doing work that really resembles very closely some of this lobbying just without the disclosure. that is the emphasis of what we were trying to do, to shine a bright light on this dark and not transparent field of think tank. host: renee sends this question via text service. how are aei and heritage funded? they seem to be the most powerful think tanks in washington? guest: i will tackle aei first.

we have absolutely no idea how aei is being funded. they are one of those dark money think tanks. they do not publicly disclose donors. i have emailed them on multiple occasions asking them for their donor information. they rather politely explained they do not make that information publicly available. we do know about aei, they have let slip at public events that they do expect -- except funding from defense contractors. the chairman of their board owns pieces of defense contractors too. that is about all i could tell you. aei is one of the dark money think tanks. the heritage foundation, very

recently i have beat up on heritage. just last year they publicly announced that they would sever their ties with defense contractor funders, they are no longer taking that money. at least on two of our buckets the heritage foundation is not taking money, they are a little bit murky in terms of transparency, a lot of their funding comes from a small donor base that donates to them. they are certainly much more transparent than aei. host: the top pentagon contractor donors to think tanks, here's the top five, northrop grumman, lockheed

martin, mitsubishi, rtx and airbus at about $1.7 million. what should we know about pentagon contractors? guest: there's a lot to know, great question. i think when it comes to that list you mentioned, it is well worth noting, we talk about companies, these are some of the very top defense contractors, these are companies getting tens of billions of dollars every year in pentagon contracts and taxpayer money. what we see with this think tank funding is they are turning around and taking a little piece of that, giving that money back to think tanks, they are making

recommendations that would be a financial benefit. this includes things like recommending specific arms sales . recommending other arms sales from places like israel. we see this over and over again that these think tanks are funded by pentagon contractors are making recommendations that would be financial windfall. you are seeing this -- i would say virtuous, but you are seeing the cycle of taxpayer money going to these entities. those entities donate to think tanks. host: new york, this is cheryl waiting, good morning. caller: you came on the show and you listed all of these think tanks. i would think aipac, pro-israel

think tanks would be near the top. i find that hard to believe. you had on think tanks talking about the israel palestinian, i won't call it a war, i will call it a conflict. you never have anyone on that has the palestinian point of view. it has all been pro-israel think tanks and you let them go on for half an hour. host: what you are saying is not true. i posted segments where we have heard from a variety of viewpoints. if you missed it, it is available at c-span.org. let me let ben freeman jump in on israel and think tanks. guest: aipac is certainly a word we hear all the time.

it is the first things on people's heads. for us, it is a really tricky case. aipac is not actually a foreign institute. this is a domestic organization. it is funded by domestic sources . by our definition, we are looking exclusively at foreign government funding. we could say first sure money that was coming from a foreign government, aipac doesn't meet that threshold. until we hear some sort of smoking gun that aipac is getting funding from the israeli government, i am not aware of that. we will go back and update the database. we will update this database every year.

some of these funding dynamics change. if we do learn that aipac is funded by the israeli government we will certainly add that. host: natalie is in texas, independent, thanks for waiting. caller: i have a question, i want to know -- are you on the air now? host: yes, you are. caller: i wanted to ask you all why are they taking money out of social security of old and disabled? they are taking $400 out of my check every month. i could barely make it. i have to ride the bus to get groceries. host: it is certainly an

important topic and one we will certainly come back to but i have been freeman focusing on think tanks right now and want to focus on his report. ben freeman, think tanks that focus on domestic policy versus foreign policy. do some of these countries that give money to think tanks, do they give it to think tanks that focus on the u.s. to messick policy? guest: we really don't see that as much. part of this is these foreign governments are hoping to get some in return. they are just as much investments as they are donations. we do see less money from foreign governments going to think tanks. that's not to say some of these foreign governments aren't quite generous. we have mentioned the uae and

qatar donating to u.s. nonprofits following natural disasters. i know the uae specifically donated following hurricanes here. they make charitable contributions. when it comes to think tank funding they are very much focused on u.s. foreign policy. host: who are the most transparent think tanks? guest: i can't say this enough. i kind of fell in love with the stinson center's transparency. it was only one of two organizations that got our full five-star rating in transparency. it really does it all. they put out their annual reports and list all of their donors. they don't just list them, they list the exact dollar amount

that each of those donors is giving. it is a level of transparency that we just don't see at think tanks. they are hiding behind anonymous donors. we really recommend that when think tanks are considering how to they improved transparency, look at the stinson center. host: what do they do? guest: they do a little bit of everything. they have a large focus on u.s. foreign policy. they are an action tank. they are making recommendations for proposals in the foreign policy space. again, they are doing it in a transparent way. host: paulette in florida, good morning. caller: good morning.

i wanted to say something else that the funding is not relative to the domestic, i think that is a lie. the countries that fund -- the rich stay rich. i wanted to make a short little joke but it is not a joke to show all of that funding, you have a billionaire and working-class person. they give 100 cookies to all three. it is all about money. people are rising up. trying to figure things out.

did you hear that lady crying about the social security check? come on. thank you. guest: i very much hear you. we are combing through the data. looking to see where that foreign government money is coming from. if we find it going to some of these domestic interests, we will do our best to tell. i will say on a very basic level, the pie that is the u.s. government's budget in one year, we only have so much and we have to figure out how to chop it up every year. foreign governments clamoring for u.s. military bases on their

soil clamoring for more money to go to them. at some point that money has to come from somewhere. taxpayers are paying for all of this. to give more money to some of these money interests that are giving a lot of money to think tanks. host: once a come back to why you did this research project in the first place saying is this guy trying to make everything seem nefarious? guest: that is a wonderful question. i have worked as think tanks. a variety of think tanks for 15 years. where this started was about two years ago, it said think tank experts were widely distrusting. they were less trusted than just

about anybody you could think of. doctors, engineers, lawyers were more trusted than think tanks. even lawyers were trusted more. we sort of said that is a problem. we want them to be trusted again. realize maybe the public does have some cause for concern. they do have these glaring conflicts of interest. they are hiding this from the american public. what we are hoping for is to get this and have them be more transparent. at the end of the day this will lead to an increase in confidence. so we could have more trust that these think tanks are working for the greater good in u.s. policy. host: the german marshall fund

received some $16 million from foreign governments. another $3.2 million from the u.s. government in nearly a million dollars from pentagon contractors, what should we know? guest: i think the marshall fund is unique. as the name would imply, this is an internationally focused think tank. they get money from foreign governments in europe. because of that gamut, the role that they play, there's a lot of truth in advertising. i personally was a little bit less concerned with the amount of money going to the german marshall fund.

i don't remember the specific details, i believe it was overwhelmingly from european allies. to me as an independent researcher i wasn't too worried. host: some $4 million from the federal foreign office of germany. $3.1 million from the ministry of foreign affairs. 2 million dollars from norway. $2 million from the united states agency for international development. just a few minutes left with ben freeman this morning if you want to get your calls in, the numbers we put on the screen for you. included in this report is recommendations for think tanks for congress, the media, what would you like to see done here to change this process that we have talked about?

guest: since we are talking on tv, one of the things we are hoping or is media will use us as a resource. they could quickly look up the funding of that think tank and let the viewers know. if they are talking about the united arab emirates, an organization that receives funding, we are hoping our friends in the media will let the viewers a or readers know about that potential conflict of interest. as i mentioned, think tanks are working directly with congress and we are hearing from congressional staff that a lot of this came as a surprise to them. they had no idea about the financial ties that they have. we are hoping to make it easier for them to access that

information. we really want to encourage congress to sit down some concrete rules. it is really the wild west. they are not required to disclose any of this. more than one third disclose nothing about their funders. we are hoping congress will require think tanks to disclose funding. there is the think tank transparency act in the senate. it has important improvements about the increasing requirement think tanks to disclose foreign funding. we are hoping one of these bills will pass and think tanks will be required to disclose any fundg they get. host: a question, what is your opinion on 501(c)(3) think tanks that have 501(c)(3) or action

arms? guest: we are seeing this more and more. the antiquated notion that a think tank is this nonprofit, the ivory tower for the research. that idea has gone out the window because of these c4's, where they have these explicitly political arms. we are seeing this across the think tank spectrum. they have heritage action. the center for american progress , they have a c4 too. republican or democrat it does not matter. we are seeing think tanks warming up in this political space explicitly. my concern here is it's really hard to disentangle this funding. you see these think tanks that

have the 501(c)(3) or 501 c4. they are sitting arm in arm right next to each other. it is really hard to disentangle when you are making a charitable contribution or the amount of money that you could fund we find its way over. it is an important question to ask they are. on a basic level when you are looking at the work, on some level you have to recognize that even the c3 side could be politically weaponized and be used to influence elections. you have to take that research with a grain of freeman and his fen freeman and his fen freeman and his fen freeman

andand think tank fundingtracker.org. this project that then freeman and his folks have put together. >> we'll head shortly to the u.s. house members are working to provide tax relief to residents of taiwan who pay u.s. taxes and increase transparency for the incomes of certain employees of the tennessee valley authority. and later this week, expect a bill to come to the floor that would deport union documented immigrants convicted of sex offices and other violent crimes. watch live coverage of the house when members return right here on c-span.