jefferson davis had been allowed by lincoln to frame the war as a noble white southern fight for independence. pure and simple. but from the moment that lincoln said, no, you, jefferson davis and/or commander-in-chief -- and your commander-in-chief, robert e. lee, have attacked the north, which is what they did in september of 1862, like pearl harbor. once you attacked the north, you changed the whe game. >> nigel hamilton with his book lincoln versus davis sunday night at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span's q&a.

you can listen to q&a and all of our podcasts on our free c-span now app. .org. host: bart jansen joins us now. i would like to start on the january 6. at this point, is there anyone convicted of some crime related to january 6 that has not had their sentence pardoned or commuted by president trump? guest: i think that is right, the work of the pardon was very broad, basically pardoning anyone with any actions on january 6 at the capital, with the exception of the 14 commutations, and he said he may review those and come back and pardon them. host: what is the difference? guest: pardon his full release from the charges and any punishment stemmed from them,

commutation is shortening a sentence. all the people in prison are in the midst of being released. host: we have heard about the january 6 investigations, one of the biggest in justice department history, are there any pieces still pending or are all of those wiped away? guest: as i understand, all of those charges are being wiped out with pardons. it was actually a trial here in d.c., on monday, on tuesday, and on monday, the judge dismissed the case, so that was a father-son team, so their case is over. they said after it actually happened tuesday when they heard trump's announcement late monday, they cracked open a bottle of champagne to celebrate. so all the court action is also ending. host: you said the judge did it

without comment, but there have judges making comments leading up to january 20 and the expected clemency for january 6, people who have been convicted of crimes, what do those judges say? guest: several judges have gone through the cases for four years. they have seen the details of the accusations. in fact, more than 1000 people were convicted, more than 1000 by another 260 or so by contested trials, so the judges, even trump appointees, expressed frustration with essentially freeing or abandoning these cases, particularly with a blanket pardon because anybody charge from the january 6 riot

would be pardoned, and, typically with most pardons, they are an individual case. so judges expressed frustration as they issued sentences because many of the defendants asked, hey, he's about to take office, he said, can't you postpone this to see how it turns out? the justice department said, that is speculative, but if trump did what he said he was going to do, they would have the pardon. host: police units supported donald trump in 2024. guest: that is right. we had an issue yesterday from police, they said they had been supporters of trump, they had a

good relationship with them, and they expressed disappointment with pardons and said nobody who attacked police officer should have been pardoned and they should have served their full-term. it was something like 600 of the defendants were charged with assaulting or interfering with police on that day, and about 140 police were injured during the riot, so there is frustration and disappointment among those defending the capital that day. host: also, there are those who are first treated by joe biden's pardons at the end of his presidency. guest: he was an activist who in 1975 was convicted of shooting to death two fbi agents, and he has been serving a life sentence.

he was -- his advocates said he suffered poor health, so he is being released after 50 years in prison. host: one of the op beds today coming from richard stout in washington times. biden kicks the fbi in the teeth on the way out the door, thumbing his nose at the cause of justice, writing about louis ponte. staying on biden, these last-minute pardons from president biden, how unexpected where they? what is the point of a preemptive pardon? guest: preemptive pardon is to prevent any potential future charges against being pardoned, the case you will remember was when richard nixon was pardoned to avoid any lingering charges

or a trial out of the watergate era 50 years ago. in this case, biden extended pardons for nonviolent, potential nonviolent crimes since 2014 for a handful of his relatives. the most significant would be james biden, his brother was investigated for his business deals with and without the president's son, hunter biden, in ukraine, china, and elsewhere. the other pardons went to his wife, the president sister valerie, and her husband and brother francis. but the one that had faced accusations was before the business deals, the main accusation, house republicans urged the justice department to investigate mind about a meeting

he says he did not attend and other witnesses say he did attend in 2014 -- no, 2017, at a hotel in los angeles, and he said he was out there, and there is documentary evidence that he was. so if they wanted to investigate that, that is something the former president has cleared. host: whether it is the biden pardons are the january 6 pardons, what is the most interesting reaction you have seen? what has been the most interesting thing for you to watch? guest: reaction to the biden pardons, house speaker mike johnson told reporters yesterday that he found that shocking and unbelievable, and he said lawmakers are going to investigate and see if there was anything they could do. that is a tough nut to crack

because pardons for the president are written into the constitution. i'm not a lawyer, but it seems like you would have to have amendments to the constitution to change that and that may be tough. host: you mentioned speaker mike johnson, shocking, unconstitutional about the biden pardons treaty was asked yesterday about his reaction to the trump j6 pardons. [video clip] >> everybody can describe this however they would like, the president has the pardon and commutation authority. it is his decision. i think what was made clear along was that peaceful protest should not be punished. it was a weaponization of the justice department and the events, the following, the prosecutions that happened after january 6. it was a terrible time and a terrible chapter in america's history. the president has made his decision, i don't second-guess

those. yes, it is kind of my those, we believe in redemption and second chances. he figured argue those people did not pay a heavy penalty after being incarcerated, that is up to you. the president made his decision. there are better days ahead of us. that is what we are excited about, not looking back but looking forward. [end video clip] host: mike johnson, saying i don't second guess those pardons, but very different to joe biden's pardons. guest: he particularly mentioned peaceful protesters, that is something republicans mentioned, something, a lot of folks have been compared to walking through the capitals, but hundreds of people were charged with violent offense, convicted of violence on that day. they were building baseball -- they were carrying baseball

bats, beating police, spraying them with chemicals. several of the police who were injured that day who retired after their injuries, voiced great upset at the pardons. one particular, suffered a heart attack, was tased repeatedly and says he feels betrayed. host: phone lines for this segment, as usual, democrats, republicans and independentss. get your calls and. bobby, oklahoma, democrat. you are up first. caller: yes, if it would have been me, if they had come up and try to take me out like they did , they would have looked like could ornaments hanging off the side -- host: what is the question, bobby? caller: the question is, why is

people so dumb, they will vote for a man like donald trump? he fooled people, saying he would get the price of eggs and milk down, he's not going to get anything down. host: donald trump did exactly what he said he would do when they came to january 6 pardons. guest: after what he called "hostages" for years, he said at various times it would be for nonviolent or people who assaulted police, but as it turned out, it was all of them. he spoke about it on monday and his return to the oval office, he said hostages were treated outrageously, and that their lives were destroyed. so i don't think he's made it a secret he thought they were

treated badly. host: virgil, republican, go ahead. caller: i have a question regarding how fair the media at large is, whether we talk about it in newsprint media or tv media, about the pardons between trump and biden. biden in his four years issued over 8000 pardons, including the pardon of someone who murdered two fbi agents. yet, trump is being attacked for his pardon of a little over 1500 j six people who do not actually kill anyone, even though the democrats, to this day, arst deal pretraining the lie that officers were killed on january 6. there is this great big disconnect between the reality of the pardons trump has issued and the pardons president biden has issued. guest: in terms of the steps

that have been linked to the january 6 right, one of the officers died the next day. he had been sprayed with chemicals very, and his death was ruled of natural causes, but his mother and others feel like he died because of his treatment on january 6. in addition, a handful of officers who were defending the capitol that day died by suicide in the days and weeks afterwards, so sometimes we will hear lawmakers say they died as a result of the attack. but, no, the rioters on that day did not shoot or kill police officers the capitol building. host: san diego, independent, good morning. you are next. go ahead.

caller: yes. i was wondering why he would pardon some people when they are actually extremists. i was shot in the head in 1991 by a drug dealer, so i can sympathize with the feelings of these people, but i was wondering why wasn't he pardoning someone who was an extremist? that is the way i feel about that. host: oath keepers, proud boys leaders, commutations from them coming, explain who those folks are. guest: there were two far-right militia groups who were considered the organizers or instigators that day, a total of 18 people were convicted of seditious conspiracy, the accusation that they were trying to overthrow the government that day.

one is a group of law enforcement officers, wearing camouflage outfits and helmets and riot gear, entering the catand sort of a military deployment. the proud boys was the ot group, they call themselves western chauvinists, supportg america, so in both cases, the leaders of both groups were given the harshest sentences. steward rhodes of the oath keepers had an 18 year sentence, and the leader of the proud boys at the time had a 22 year sentence. one was pardoned and steward rhodes left on tuesday mornin so the harshest crimes

have also been committed by trump. host: alexander, democrat, good morning. caller: yes, good morning. thank you for taking my call. give me a moment before i ask my question. i honestly feel that this election completely demonstrated the collapse of both parties, republican and democratic parties, for people to actually vote for a person so flawed, trump and his cabinet, like--patel, tulsi gabbard, but as far as these pardons, what concerns me the most is that a sickly now trump has a paramilitary. he has several extremist groups that have now been given green lights to be able to put a great amount of pressure on anybody

that they would like, and now they know that trump will pardon them if he has to. my question is, whatever you would like to call this, people would like to turn this into a farther autocratic system or democracy, how is this system literally supposed to survive when the actual people or half of the people in this country want this violence and type of transactional government? and there really is no more law and order because you can bend the will any way you want to get what you want and democrats will not be able to stop this, they really will not. what is your sense of where we are historically toward a system that just needs to be collapsing? because the laws are bent anywhere that you would like in

order to get your end results. guest: it is a little hard to talk about the and other democracy in a brief television periods -- television appearance like this, but what i would say is that trump would say he won a strong with geordie in the -- in the electoral college with the actual majority of the popular vote, which republicans have been hard-pressed to find the last couple of decades. and, in addition, he won the house and senate, so, as you say, the entire government now is in the hands of republicans. he says that he has a strong mandate to carry out his priorities, including any of the pardons he said he would do on the first day, he did it on the first day. he said he would like to increase drilling along the coastlines and, presumably, he will pursue that. so it you are going to see over

the next two years is trump and his republican allies in congress pressing their agenda, and the difference would be if enough people get upset or disappointed with his priorities, then, perhaps, we will start to see changes in 2026. for now, you have two years waiting to see what the republicans will accomplish when they control both branches of government. host: election donald trump's priorities, this is from the washington post -- justice department given the job for much of trump's to do list. can you explain what is happening at the justice department right now and what happens at the beginning of a new administration? pam bondi has not been confirmed yet, but donald trump staffers are in charge of the justice department, so what is happening this week? guest: during the transition

between the election and inauguration, the incoming administration sends its own staffers to evaluate priorities and staffing in all of the federal agencies, so the justice department is a high-profile agency. trump has named top leaders for the department in months. he named them very early. and so pam bondi has had her confirmation hearing, a former attorney general of florida, a prosecutor, so it is not so much that her credentials would have been challenged, but just her priorities and allegiance to trump, which are the political questions as we wait to see how the judiciary commute will go wednesday on her nomination, and we will see about it with the full senate, but in addition, he

has nominated other top leaders and political posts that govern priorities or the policy direction of the department. among those, the deputy attorney general, todd blanche, has been appointed, and -- host: we knew him from the donald trump trial in new york. guest: correct, and his partner were his criminal lawyers and represented several of the cases, so blanche would be deputy attorney general, and then principal attorney general, so those folks -- he is now acting as deputy attorney general, so, for instance, he sent out a memo on the 21st saying that they would like to enforce immigration laws. immigration was one of trump's

top priorities during the campaign, and he looks to strengthen the border and support mass deportations, many of those functions pass through the justice department because they technically oversee the immigration courts, and they would be pursuing any of the legal remedies for deportations, so he put out a memo saying, keep track of who is cooperating with the federal government, the department of homeland security agency will be rounding up people, the immigration and customs and border protection and border patrol, and some states and cities have with the call century laws, where they say they would not cooperate with this federal law enforcement to detain or deport. one memo said, well, we will keep track of that going on, and if we need to, we may investigate folks who are not

cooperating the state or local level with the law enforcement. host: a few minutes left with bart jansen, taking your phone calls, barbara has been waiting knoxville, tennessee, independent. good morning. caller: good morning. my question is, given the press announcement yesterday, mike johnson was very upset because biden hardened his family, even though everybody knew they were going to go after biden's family. they said they were going to look into it. how can they do that when it is supposed to be absolute? guest: you are absolutely right that the pardoned authorities absolute, there are no apparent restrictions on it, but what some lawmakers have talked about in the past, this is one of the big advocates the past week, was a democrat, they may not be

aligned with mike johnson on many issues, but at least since 2017 on the federal level, they have talked about adjusting the pardoned authority so that a president could not pardon relatives or top aides or people with potential financial relations. host: with the constitutional amendment? guest: i'm not a lawyer, it seems he could pass legislation, within the first challenge to wipe it out is unconstitutional, so the legislation also has not moved out of committee. he says he's going to pursue it again this year. we don't know what speaker johnson was talking about in taking a look at it, but it is possible republicans may also be looking for ways to adjust that

authority, but it would be interesting to see how the supreme court may respond to an eventual challenge because in the immunity decision that it reached in july, involving the trump criminal charges, several of the things you absolutely cannot criminally charge a former president with are the core powers of the presidency, and that is pardons, and the appointment power. so it is only held by the executive, and other branches are usually reluctant to step in or to tinker with the powers. host: what else are you watching for any busy week on your beat that we have not talked about yet? guest: i'm focusing a lot on immigration and waiting to see how these enforcement actions will play out.

they already talked about rounding up hundreds of undocumented immigrants, and there are an estimated 12 million undocumented immigrants in the country. half of those are people who have overstayed their visas. there is also i am wanting to see how do they pursue these folks and the volume could be huge. they have begun deploying active military to the border, 1500 troops being sent. that is not entirely new prude active duty has been sent to protect them for a couple decades now. we are waiting to see how trump's actions will be new and what he says will be more aggressive to secure the border. host:

>> c-span's washington journal, a forum involving you to discuss the latest issues in government, politics and public policy, from washington to across the country. friday morning, arkansas republican congressman bruce westerman, chair of the natural resources committee, talks about the trump administration's policies and other congressional news of the day. and max stier will talk about president trump's executive actions aimed at overhauling the federal workforce. dean ball, a research fellow at george mason university, will talk about president trump's artificial intelligence infrastructure investment. c-span's washington journal, when the conversation live at 7:00 a.m. friday on c-span, c-span now and c-span.org.

friday on c-span, beginning at noon eastern, pro like activists that pro-life activists will go to the national mall for a pro-life rally. president trump, vice president vance and a professional surfer are scheduled to speak. at 10:00 a.m., senate lawmakers will discuss president trump's nominee for defense secretary, pete hegseth. you can also watch all of our live coverage on the c-span now video app or online at c-span.org. american history tv, saturdays on c-span2, exploring the people and events that tell the american story. this weekend at 6:45 p.m. eastern, we will visit george washington's virginia home, mount vernon, to tour recent renovation and restoration --

preservation efforts. a duke university oppressor discusses latino migration trends in the 20th and 21st centuries. at 9:30 p.m. eastern on the presidency, a historian speaks at the boston athenaeum about second u.s. president john adams. his presidency unfolded against the backdrop of the politics and personalities of the nation. exploring the american story. watch american history tv saturdays on c-span2 and find a full schedul on your program guide or watch online anytime at c-span.org/history. brooke rollins, president's agriculture secretary nominee, told the senate agriculture committee that in her first days she would deploy $10 billion in available economic