on c-span 3 at 10:30 a.m. eastern former service members and advocates discuss the community care program and president trump's executive order on a government hiring freeze that can impact veterans access to health care service these events also stream live on the free c-span now video app and online at c-span.org. coming up on "washington journal" we'll take your comments live. and lisa gilbert from the public rights group public citizen talk about pushing back on the trump administration agenda. and mike gonzalez discusses the president's effort to dismantle federal d.e.i. programs. washington journal is next. ♪ host: this is the washington journal january 28, 2025,

yesterday at the republican conference president trump outlined plans to cut spending, place tariffs on other countries and increasing legal immigration to the u.s. and at the same time extending tax cuts and allotting money for energy production, all the while while he and republicans want to cut spending. and the goals the house republicans have, do they reflect your priorities? choose the lines and let us know today if you have a belief the republicans and president shares those things for you. for 202-748-8001 republicans and for democrats, 202-748-8000, and 202-748-8002 for independents. if you want to text us, do it at 202-748-8003. you can post on facebook and on x. it was that meeting that took

place in miami, florida, yesterday between the president and house republicans that produced a series of stories on some of the agenda from that. this is politico this morning saying president donald trump on monday didn't offer house republicans any new guidance for how exactly they should enact his vast legislative agenda but issues a long list of must-haves. virtually all of these demands are costly, adding to the challenge republican leaders face in finding correspondenting spending cuts to offset them. president trump outlined a expensive immigration policy moves, including a massive increase in detention beds and additional support for i.c.e. as agents ramp up deportations and full border security funding and completion on the wall in the southern border. on tax policy, he echoed a demand he reminded g.o.p. leaders at a white house meeting and reiterated his campaign promise to extend the 2017 tax

cuts and eliminate taxes on overtime earnings. that was from politico. another take on it from "the washington times" seeing how house republicans are reacting. house republicans have vowed to cut spending aggressively now that president trump is back in office but some already have drawn red lines on cuts they say they can't stomach. republican lawmakers have ruled out trimming that hits their districts and worries that budget belt tightening could hurt their re-election chances in 2026. representative aaron bean of florida, co-chair of the house doge caucus that wants to work closely with mr. trump's waste cutting department of government efficiency says congress has to break their spending addiction and this is what americans voted for and have said enoughf e spending and what i'm trying to deliver and we know the swamp

won't go quietly. that's what happened when it comes to priorities and house republicans. do they reflect your priorities? call us and let us know if they reflect those priorities or not for you. for democrats, 202-748-8000, and for republicans, 202-748-8001 and for independents, 202-748-8002, and text us. he talked about immigration and in comments the president talked about why he thought issues when it came to the border and border security were stronger at the time than issues of inflation and the economy. here are his comments yesterday. [video clip] president trump: i focused on the border and always felt the border was first because i felt people could really understand you can't have people pouring in from the prisons all over the world and from mental institutions all over the world

and dumped into our country. so i talked about that much more so than i did inflation. inflation is terrible, the worst in our country but you can only talk about it so long, the price of apples has tripled and bacon quadrupled and everything is a disaster and you say it, what can do. with this i can give examples of what they're doing to destroy our country and felt it was the strongest thing. host: we'll show you more from the president and house republican leaders, some of the priorities for them, are they the same for you. for democrats, 202-748-8000, and for republicans, 202-748-8001, and for independents, 202-748-8002. richard in new jersey, democrats' line on this idea of priorities from the republican leadership and if it's the same for you. richard in new jersey, go ahead? caller: something trump didn't talk about which was definitely one of his goals which he stated

was be a dictator on the first day it. to that end, any good dictator work is solved has a private army with the brown shirts and black shirts and trump has the red hats. the reason he had to pardon everybody, for two good reasons, he's planning to use them again if he has to, number one, as an army. number two, by taking away security clearances away from people that work with him and letting these felons and violent activists go, he's trying to intimidate everybody. he's basically a terrorist. he's going to terrorize everybody pretty much he doesn't like and that's what he does. and the republicans sit there wagging their tails and if they do nothing the guy will run

everything and destroy what america is in my opinion. host: richard in new jersey and arthur in florida, the republican line. again, if president trump and the house republicans' goals reflect your goals and priorities. arthur in florida, hello. caller: well, yes. the major issue i see i would like the republicans to address is this notion of our loaning out money to other nations, nations who celebrate, like everything, if we collapsed. it's time we take care of america first. thank you for your time. host: arthur in florida. again, lisa on the goals and priorities of republicans and if they're similar to yours. lisa is in alexandria, virginia, independent line. go ahead. caller: hi, good morning. i want to say yes, they do reflect my opinion of how we need to start cutting.

an example of that is when we have -- haven't had section 8 vouchers across america since 2012 but yet the department of housing, every housing agency underneath that in the state are still hiring and running and running emergency vouchers for emergency housing. that's the waste, we have billions we keep spending since 2012 and not being effective. we need solutions and not band-aids and to quit spending, just grossly spending and wasting tax dollars. host: do you think republicans have the opportunity or at least the gumption, so to speak, to make those spending cuts. caller: i think if they don't have the gumption to make the spending cuts, it's time for republicans and democrats to stand together and say, you know what, we know there's waste and we need to get rid of it and

vote accordingly in 2026. host: that's lisa in alexandria, virginia. this news coming out of the white house yesterday saying it's president trump's office ordering all agencies to temporarily block grants and loans other than for social security, medicare and other programs providing direct aid to individuals. the memo says the temporary pause starting effectively at 5:00 today is intended to ensure agencies are complying with mr. trump's executive orders to rout out, quote, marxist equity, transgenderrism and green new deal social engineering policies from programs within their purview. it's not how wide ranging the pause will be in practice due to the office of management and budget's ability to grant exceptions on a case by case basis. exempting aid to individuals and the clause saying the pause is, quote, to what is permissible under applicable law. maybe that's something you agree with, a priority of the white house that you agree with or

maybe you disagree with it. call us on the lines and let us know about that and other things you may agree or disagree with, whether it be from the president himself or the priorities of house republicans who met in florida yesterday. john, the republican line in connecticut. go ahead. caller: yes, good morning, pedro yes, i feel the republicans will do right for the country. everyone is talking about the price of groceries not coming down the first day is impossible, no one can do that. once the energy crisis goes down, inflation goes down, things will come in order. it will happen. i just think we have to give mre president a chance. all we got to do, give the guy a chance like we did four years ago with mr. biden. host: if that's the case, how long of a chance should he get? caller: as long as it takes, pedro. i don't mean four years, the

guy's only been in office for a week. pedro, can you change your budget around in a week, your home budget in a week? host: i'm asking what do you think is a measurable amount of time for the white house, this white house and republican team to make those changes? caller: give him his hundred days, what he needs to do this. we need to give the man a chance. the country needs to reverse things that happened before. we need to give president trump a chance. that's all there is to it. i can't change my budget in 24 hours or 100 days maybe. but our country is so big and i know you realize that. so much is going on in the country right now. give president trump a chance. host: ok. don in connecticut, republican line, talking about the economy and issues of the economy. this from "usa today" about the cost of eggs and what's expected over the next several months. they're saying is making eggs

for breakfast might become more challenging as the common grocery items expected becomes priceyer throughout the years despite vice president vance saying otherwise. according to the u.s. department of agriculture, prices are predicted to increase about 20% in 2025 compared to 2.2% for overall food prices. the usda attributed the rise in egg costs to the highly pathogenic avian influenza or bird flu outbreak which has caused a problem for supplies. maybe this is something you share with the president or not with the priorities being like yours. go ahead, from the republican line. caller: i don't know we'll be able to cut anything. we'll have to put everything in the budget. that includes tax cuts, defense, social security, medicare.

we got to stop tax cuts to billionaires and all these people and making them pay more and taking away from the people who don't have nothing. but if you do what trump is doing, give the billionaires tax cuts and then trying to find all the cuts and social programs, they're not going to be able to do it because there ain't enough money under social security and medicare and defense. you can't get no -- a whole lot of money out of the budget. you can listen to all these people talking about what they're going to cut and how much they're going to cut. but he's going to do just like he did the last time.

host: there in arkansas, a little bit after reminder, folks calling in and waiting online and turn down your televisions. in this piece it says when it comes to priorities from the president, he wants congress to move quickly to extend the 2017 tax cuts and end federal taxes on tips which could add more to the debt. some of those plans will clash with the members of the arch conservative freedom caucus which add any tax bill dramatically cuts spending and spending cuts some republicans plans that would affect social safety programs and many of trump's campaign promises are at odds with some g.o.p. hard-liners to cut the national

debt, that competing $36.2 trillion. it was during his speech monday evening he said he was looking forward to congress to increase federal spending that would pay for deportation flights and hire more border and enforcement. it was the house speaker mike johnson asking about current plans for migration and the current deportations taking place and how that might impact the economy. here's mike johnson from yes. [video clip] speaker johnson: i heard tom homan say the worst are first and we mean dangerous criminals and you know who they are, you've seen them rounded up and deported. that's the top and first priority of the federal government. the rest of it will be developed. i'm glad we have a new secretary of homeland security. i think kristi noem will do an incredible job in that organization. and all the people lined up have a sober mind about this and very

clear-eyed about what they require and what the american people demand and deserve and who they voted for in the election. they gave president trump a mandate to fix this problem and when i talked to everybody around the country, the border was the top priority, red and blue states. they're counting on the administration and congress, for that matter, to back it up and get control of this situation. that's what's going to happen and i think everybody can take a deep breath and let this play out. we're going to restore law and order at any cost and i think we owe that to the people. it's a very simple thing. host: there's more available at our website at c-span.org and our app at c pan now. is the president and republicans reflecting your policies? joining us now on the independent line. caller: you covered a lot of stuff so i want to hear a couple of them. number one, mike lawler from upstate new york, i'm a new york resident, something 40 years and live on long island. my taxes for my property is

about $13,000 and of that, $9,000 are from school taxes. when lawler talks about the exorbitant taxes, how much of that is going towards school taxes which are for the public sector unions and teachers, right? and by the way, up in his area where he lives and some of these areas on long island, it really is a form of privilege and generational wealth because they're getting better teachers at higher rates of pay and offering more college courses and they want the rest of us to pay and want the country to go more into debt to pay for it? $20,000 for a couple is where working class are. anyone paying $40,000 or $50,000 can afford to pay it, not that we have to bankrupt the country more. as far as trump goes on tips, the working class ain't going to like that. those of us signing in, we're going to keep paying taxes and

most people i know working for tips, all the cash tips they've been making all these years haven't paid tax on that and they've only been caught 15 years the tips that are going on credit cards. as far as social security goes and medicare, where can you go and work 10 years, 40 credits, and be eligible for pension and medical benefits? maybe instead of decreasing anything -- not talking about decreasing, so let's get that straight. maybe they should change the requirement how long you can pay in before you collect. there's a lot more stuff. host: bill in long island. let's hear from john in california, republican line. hi. caller: good morning, pedro, good morning, everyone. i think trump is doing a good job. and my priorities were ending the war, both wars, and he's done a good job of bringing the hostages home and having a cease-fire in gaza, drawing a

red line because he's a strong president, everybody heard him. the next priority would be to lower gas prices or lower oil prices down to about $40 a barrel and would end the ukraine war and hurt iran and their terrorists. we're on our way to ending the ukraine war. i don't care if he has a hundred priorities. but if he ends the war, he's a good president. and the second point, i hear it all the time from democrats, is that the tax cuts. trump tax cuts, i urge everyone to go to the congressional budget office and they have budget histories back to george washington and you have kennedy's budget and clinton's budget, obama's budget and under the trump tax cuts, because he lowered taxes for corporations, they were able to hire more.

so even though they cut prices, unemployment went from 7% under obama to 3% which means more people pay in to the taxes and for the first time ever, revenues went to $4 trillion. host: all right. john in california. let's go to dennis in maryland. independent line. caller: good morning, pedro and america. basically, give the guy a chance. i'm not a trump fan and i'm not a democrat but an independent. but you got to give the guy a chance to fix whatever was wrong with the country. now, they talk about taxing the rich, i'm middle class, a

working stiff and if i started a business and used my own money and worked hard -- somebody not doing anything and get that part. host: dennis, i have to apologize, you're breaking up. dennis, are you still there. caller: yes. can you hear me? host: go ahead. caller: you have the left and right going nuts, like a sports team. the republicans are rooting for their team and the democrats are rooting for their team and the guy in the middle is just sitting there watching. i'm the guy just watching the show. i'm 66 years old next month and i've seen presidents come and go and these people and believe everything he says. he says he's going to fix stuff on day one. nobody in their right mind believes nobody can fix something on day one and doesn't make sense. host: dennis calling us i think from his car from maryland, and you can do the same at home or

wherever. 202-748-8000 for democrats, 202-748-8001 for republicans and independents, 202-748-8002. are president trump's and house republicans reflect your priorities? "the washington times" highlights a story taking a look at possible cuts being mulled by house republicans saying the house ways and means committee floated a 50-page list of spending cuts where cumulatively trillions in savings could be had over 10 years. a sample of the proposed cuts in an estimated 10-year budget savings eliminate the home mortgage deduction is $1 trillion, snap work requirements, $5 billion and cap snap maximum benefit would be a $2 billion. eliminate the credit for child and independent care, $55 billion, eliminate duplicative block grants, and goes on from there. "washington times" is where you

can find that story if you want to read it. janet in pittsburgh. the republican line. about these priorities and if they reflect yours. caller: yes. well, i wanted to talk about the j sixers, two things. pelosi was thinking she finally got trump. she knew and the president knew before january 6, days before that, that there was going to be disruption. there were not enough capitol police. they knew it. so what they did was, let's just not get any of those troops that trump is offering us because that will quell any kind of disruption. we'll just let it go, let it be a disruption and then we'll finally get him and pin it on him, ok. that's number one.

host: how does the impact of current priorities the republicans are suggesting and the president, how does it reflect the modern day? caller: well, because people are calling, you had a couple callers ago that this man did not like the fact that the january 6 people that were in prison that was going to be an army he was going to use. that is so ridiculous. somebody asked him, and i think it was on -- right after those people were pardoned why he pardoned all of them instead of doing case by case. he would have liked to have done case by case. he said it would have taken entirely too long. he has too much of a list he wants to correct, and that is why he did it all at one time.

host: all right p. janet in pittsburgh. calling in. a related story from yesterday saying it was the acting attorney general moving on monday to fire several justice officials who worked on the federal criminal investigations into president trump, according to department officials and termination letters sent more than a dozen officials, and james mchenry wrote, he did not believe they could be trusted to faithfully implement the president's agenda because of their significant role in prosecuting the president, one of the officials said. it's not immediately clear how many officials involved in the trump investigation received those notices. again, when it comes to the current priorities of the president and house republicans, if they're similar to yours, maybe they're not. you can call and let us know, the democrats' line from massachusetts w we'll hear from pete. go ahead. caller: this guy, is weak and worse than anybody could have imagined. he is the worst thing to ever

happen to this country. i don't know what these people are smoking or what kind of cult they are in. but anyway, the republicans' spineless congress is -- the fear that they feel is almost like they're working in a stalinesque regime. you know, i just pray the guardrails will hold a little bit because this guy is going to test every bound. he doesn't care about anybody. the people that voted for him, actually. he can't stand them. behind closed doors. i don't know what they think. but no, my priorities -- and i think musk is probably arguably more evil than trump in maybe a more articulate or, you know, sneaky way, which i think he is. why was he talking to the german

right wing party the other day? that's a nice nazi salute he gave, also. no. it's going to be a rough four years if he makes it, you know. maybe he can't. host: massachusetts there. bob, independent line in michigan. hello. caller: hey, good morning, pedro, wow. i believe that i'm more of a commonsense party. i mean, i'm not democrat or republican. i look at what is happening. so if you're looking at a common sense -- i mean, some of these people need to really open up their eyes. host: as far as their priorities versus your priorities, how do they compare? caller: oh, i see our country doing a complete 180, all

positive. i mean, there's just way too much crime, corruption, wasteful spending. it's ridiculous. the past four years we've been dealing with a lot of deception. host: ok. eva is next, mississippi, democrats line. hi. caller: good morning. i think it's too much spending but you see what he just did, he cut all this funding. how are people supposed to live? are these people crazy? how are they supposed to live? you can't get nobody help for sick people now. they get two hours a day. for care p. what is wrong with them? what is going on? are they crazy?

host: eva in mississippi. rachel is in texas, republican line. caller: good morning. host: good morning. caller: i am rachel, i live in texas, i support the president and the conservatives. i'm right on the border and thank god for them. besides that, the one statement i wanted to make, i watch c-span every chance i can. y'all do a tremendous job. thank you. host: thank you, rachel. when it comes to priorities, you didn't specify to what degree do your priorities reflect the house republicans. caller: so many. priorities, they're getting the border closed which will help the economy. it's one of these multiple issues. host: ok. rachel in texas. again, people calling in and

letting us know about the priorities, their personal priorities versus that of the president or house republicans. you can do the same, for democrats, 202-748-8000, and for republicans, 202-748-8001, and for independents, 202-748-8002. tariffs was one of those topics addressed by president trump yesterday while in florida, his plan for tariffs and how he plans to approach it. here's a portion from yesterday. president trump: we'll have so many businesses moving back into our country. remember again, the word "tariff " we'll protect our country and our businesses with tariffs and you got a little bit of an indication what happened with a very strong country. colombia is traditionally a strong-willed country. if they don't make their product in america, then very simply, they should have to pay a tariff which will bring in trillions from our treasuries that never paid us 10 cents.

we're not going to let that happen and let them destroy our country. in the words of president mckinley who is the tariff king, the protective system invokes the highest law of nature that a self-preservation, and it is self-preservation. there's every reason founded in justice why the american producer should in every way be favored against a foreign producer whose products compete with his. this is our natural market. we have made it. we have made it an enormous cost capital. and think of this, we did that through exertion and brain and muscle and guts and stamina. we preserved it against foreign wars and domestic conflicts at great sacrifice, men and women. the foreign producer has contributed nothing to the growth and development of this country. so if you want to share with the citizens of the united states, our home market, then you must pay for the privilege of doing it. in other words, you have to pay

for the privilege of coming into our country, taking our jobs, taking our product, destroying our country. we mentioned north carolina, the furniture business, what they've done, these great art sans. i used to go down to north carolina all the time to build holtz -- hotels i was building and it was wiped out by china and others. but it's all going to come roaring back. host: the priorities of the president and house republicans, are they your priorities? do they reflect your priorities or perhaps not? for democrats, 202-748-8000 and for republicans, 202-748-8001 and for independents, 202-748-8002. on our independent line, ted in minneapolis, good morning. caller: i just thought i'd call in. i was watching a program a month ago on "sportscenter" barrel and i was watching rand paul speak

about the excesses of spending this "sportscenter" barrel and absolutely throwing it out the window, talking about two different fish and which fish if you drink tequila or gin would be more aggressive? and also, listening to senator livingston -- no, langston of oklahoma, and he brought up this "sportscenter" barrel spending. we're actually spending money on the stupidest things and he said in his speech, if we reduce this "sportscenter" barrel spending, we could be saving over $1 billion per year for our country. so why don't we look at "sportscenter" barrel spending? thank you. host: let's go to mary. mary in nevada. the democrats' line. caller: good morning.

this connection between musk and trump is very dangerous, rallying all these right wing extremists. and music, he has no -- he was not elected to hold office. why he has space in the white house is beyond me. now he's out there trying to erase history in germany like trump wants to erase history from january 6. you saw it on tv. there were videos. they're not hostages, they were domestic terrorists and others were charged for sedition and they pled guilty and had their day in court. they were guilty. as far as money goes, what he's doing is a photo-op using military assets to round up immigrants, immigrants he's hired his whole life. the plane costs something like $200,000 for 12 hours. his bord,

wants to use an even larger military plane that would cost $800,000 an hour. the plane was not filled with immigrants. it's all a photo-op. we need legislation to fix it. but no, let's put drama into the picture. they ought to park their butts and get off their podcasts and sit and do legislation. donald trump and his ilk, that mike johnson would do himself some good if he'd go into his bible and read the passage about not bearing false witness. trump is a disaster. he hasn't lowered the price of eggs, all hell hasn't broken lose like he said it would in gaza. he hasn't lowered the price of bacon. they're out there draining the treasury, not the swamp. they're all criminals.

read the backgrounds of some of these people. his nominees aren't qualified. host: mary in nevada. we got the point. thank you for the call. she and others bring up elon musk about comments made over the weekend, telling a gathering of hard right gathering for the germany party this weekend, the country has too much focus on past guilt and to wipe away the long shadow of the nazis to kurt warner team extreme public unparties. it's good to be aware of german values and not lose it in multiculturalism that dill utes everything and told about a broadcast to thousands of americans from the city of halle. let's hear from john from texas, republican line. hi. caller: thanks for taking my call. with respect to the priorities in terms of what president trump promised, it's only the seventh

day "usa today" so i would say give it time -- the seventh day today. so i would say give it time. immigration takes time. to reduce prices, that's going to take time. if i'm going to be doing my budget, i have to look at everything. i can't just look at one item as to where i'm going to reduce my spending. so seven days is not enough to lower the prices of any product that is brought in or controlled by one simple company or corporate. that will take time. i do believe very strongly that he needs a little bit of time. now, two years down the line if we are still having the same problems, that's the time to complain. all of us have the right to say whatever we want to say, but give the person you hired time to get into the job. thank you.

host: john in texas. adam from washington, d.c. independent line. caller: hey, good morning. one thing that i'd like to say regarding priorities is i'm not sure that all of the priorities and how they're being implemented is something i agree with, per se, in time and tempo. but i'm impressed the trump administration is doing exactly what i anticipated him doing which is pulling all the levers of power from diplomatic information, military and economic, and there are multiple levers to pull on. what we feel is a churn. it's understandable the american public is a little concerned or feeling thrown off. in terms of making change, the trump administration is doing that. host: chuck schumer on the floor monday said the trump administration is not focused on

americans' priorities. here's his statement yesterday. mr. schumer: he spent the first week firing insurrectionists and not focusing on things like americans care about like the price of groceries, the president owes the american people answers. what will he do with the eggs with bird flu. hundreds of chickens die and when there are fewer eggs, the prices go up and the problems weaken levels. in november a dozen eggs cost approximate $4 in new york and already too high, it used to be $2 a year earlier. now that same dozen eggs costs $6 and experts agree the price of eggs could increase 20% more this year if outbreaks continue, meaning the same dozen eggs would be $8. every day we hear about the

spread of bird flu. last week farmers on long island had to slaughter 100,000 ducks, long island is one of the dark producing capital in the country, in response to another outbreak. so president trump, what's your plan to stop the spread of bird flu? the more bird flu spreads, the higher egg prices will go and the less money in people's pockets for rent and gas and other expenses. we need some action. host: as always, you can find more about the minority's comments on our website. shirley from the democrats line. caller: good morning, america. i sit back and i watch c-span every morning. trump is nothing but distraction, distraction, distraction. his whole campaign was about distraction. i wonder how his first call as

president he called saudi arabia. why? because he's building a golf course over there. oh, then he called el salvador where he's sending these people back but he has coins there with his picture on there. he's making millions of dollars. oh, and he's giving tax breaks to all the rich. why naturally tax breaks keep him from having to pay taxes on all his companies and everything. he's nothing but distraction. yes, we've got to secure our borders, definitely. prices are all up all over the place. i heard schumer talk about eggs, $8, no, i'm new york city, i look at the sales papers we get. i go online to look.

eggs, $10. if you going to buy the 18-pack, they were $13.99. so why is he in all these other countries worrying about what all these other countries are doing instead of dealing with home. people, wake up and look at the distractions. that was his key thing. host: shirley there in new york city. let's hear from geraldine in the neighboring state of new jersey, republican line. hi. caller: hi, good morning. i was just doing a little research. the democratic people complain about spending. well, on the house budget committee, they spent $150 billion a year on illegals. now, if they weren't invading us, would we still be spending $150 billion a year on illegals?

over the last four years, biden spent $150 billion a year on illegals. and then i watched schumer complain about the price of eggs? nobody can do anything if there's a flu with the birds. but it just seems impossible. i have three friends, i'm 75, who have all lost grandchildren to fentanyl. i have -- i work with a nurse whose daughter was killed by an illegal who was drunk driving, no insurance, no license, no nothing. after he killed her, he just went back to mexico. so i think trump in his first week has done more than biden has done in the last three years. biden also has lied to us. i will not leave a single

american in afghanistan. he left over 1,000. i'm going to be president to bring the country together. oh, except for the fact that all us republicans are nazis and trump's hitler. that didn't work. host: geraldine there in new jersey. n.p.r. reporting it was just after 6:00 yesterday the trump administration placed a number of senior career officials, the u.s. agency for international development, on leave for allegedly not abiding by the president's order to retain u.s. foreign aid. and a copy was retained sent to all staff by jason gray, we've identified several actions within usaid that have been designed to circumvent the president's order and as a result we've placed several usaid members on further leave with benefits as we complete our analysis of these actions.

let's hear from curtis on the priorities of the president and house republicans and if they match yours. baltimore, independent line, curtis, hello. caller: hi, good morning. host: you're on. go ahead. caller: i'm independent and calling to say that i wholeheartedly agree with every decision that this administration makes. and i'm not saying that in a good term. i'm being sarcastic when i say that. because i hope what happens eventually is enough's happened that the people in this country will rise up and take action against the g. people are being foolish. this government has never done anything in this country. people continue to put their trust in the government,

especially so-called christians and one of the verses in your bible saying the government of this world are not in my father's kingdom but yet still put trust in the government. i don't understand. if you're concerned is so much about the price of eggs, stop buying the eggs and i guarantee you the prices will go down. stop worry building nonsense instead of worrying about obeying the law of the creator, you're more concerned about following the laws of man. that's what's wrong with not just this country but the world itself. thank you for letting me have my two seconds. host: jay in maryland, democrats' line, hello. caller: good morning. thanks for taking my call, pedro. i'll get right to the point. no, the priorities of the republicans and trump with regard to spending are 180

degrees out of what i think our priorities should be. host: you've got a lot of interference going on. can you clear up the signal, please? caller: can you hear me now? host: yes, go ahead. caller: ok. it's obvious to me they have no compunction about causing financial pain to the people who have the least in this country. they're doing it with tariffs. they're going to do it with taxes and they're going to do it with budget cuts. i think the whole price of eggs thing was a great -- host: caller, i apologize, you're breaking up. apologize for that. shawn is in florida, independent line. caller: what is happening is a continuation of a failed coup of 2020 which is a continuation of the failure of the third right.

trump and his associates used the failure of the third right to create the fourth right and what they couldn't obtain on the battlefield he purchased. mr. trump's mentor was a communist and ahead of the facism in germany and so goes trump. number one is an internal enemy. hitler has the jews and trump has the mexicans. host: as far as the priorities of the president currently or not match yours, specifically what would that be? caller: not standing up and doing anything against these people. these people are absolutely touting the nazi philosophy. where is it not the nazi philosophy? what are we going to do about this? when are we going to stand up? when will the democrats stand up and start fighting back against this stuff. these people, look what he did, he's taken out of transgender people in the military, the smallest group of people in the united states they've gone after in order to show their experience. they're burning the nation down in the name of christian god of

white supremacy. host: ok. in california, democrats line, hello. caller: hi, pedro. thank you. i would have to say that the republicans are in general reflecting my priorities. i reside in the san francisco bay area, and i've lived in california since a little kid, since 1960, and the democrats have practically destroyed this state. the crime in this state and especially in the bay area is just absolutely -- you can't describe it, it's a total breakdown of the social structure. everyone weekend and no, it's not just on the weekends, they have these side shows. i don't know if you're familiar with that term where the younger people, they get their cars, a lot of the cars are stolen, they burn rubber in the intersections

of the cities like oakland and san francisco, vallejo, they run into people and shoot their guns off. host: how do all those events relate to current priorities of the president and republicans and if you agree with that or not? caller: his stance is basically a law and order stance. that's trump's stance, whether it's immigration or day-to-day crime, street crime, he's a law and order president and that's what he's trying to get accomplished. host: that there in california. "the new york post" reporting it was the president signing four executive orders and one proclamation monday, edicts that would prohibit gender radicalism in the military, eliminate diversion, equity programs in the military. can you see the full announcement the president gave yesterday but here's a portion. [video clip]

president trump: in a little while i'll be signing new executive orders, directing pete hegseth, our secretary of defense, who will be great, by the way. [applause] president trump: thank for you the support. you did support him great and think he'll be fantastic. i know him very well. he'll be fantastic and what we need to immediately begin the construction of the state-of-the-art iron dome missile defense shield to protect americans. we protect other countries but don't protect ourself. when ronald reagan wanted to do it many years ago, luckily we didn't. we didn't have the technology, it was a concept but now have phenomenal technology and see that with israel where out of 319 rockets, they knocked down just about every one of them. so i think the united states is entitled to that and everything will be made here in the u.s.a., 100%. and next to ensure we have the most lethal fighting force in the world, we will get

transgender ideology the hell out of our military. it's going to be gone. in addition, we will stop our service members from being indoctrinated withed a value left ideologies such as critical race theory. and finally, have a full reinstatement to any service member expelled from the armed forces due to the covid vaccine mandate and restore them to their former rank with full pay. host: let's hear from jim from pittsburgh, independent line. caller: yes, pedro, good morning. i'd first like to comment on on the comment of elon musk making the nazi salute. he has asbergers, high functioning autism and basically

making fun of a medical condition. they were upset when trump appeared to be making fun of a reporter for a similar thing. as far as priorities, i think the main priority should be the border and energy. thank you. host: we heard a lot about the border, energy specifically, why? caller: i think the energy is fundamental to overall pricing. cost energy and transportation fees, fundamental cost of everything but in addition to companies are going to locate to a place where they have cheaper, reliable energy and if that's the united states, more companies will tend to produce here. host: jim in pittsburgh, giving his thoughts on his priorities, how they compare or contrast with the administration's and the house republicans.

matt joins us next, he's in new york state. republican line. caller: good morning. so far what trump is doing, you can call promises made, promises kept. he's done more in one week than biden did in four years. the border, and we just talked about energy. energy run this is country. and for some reason, sleepy joe decided he wanted to cripple this country. they've run this country into the ground. when you showed the clip of schumer, i thought what a hypocrite. he's complaining about eggs, i'd like to remind everybody about two years ago, eggs were even higher than they are now and biden didn't do anything about it. but yet schumer in his senate democrats are slow walking with the 30-hour rule every cabinet appointee. now, trump can't do anything until his cabinet is in place.

and hypocrite schumer is up there saying what's he doing? well, why don't schumer quit this nonsense with the slow walking cabinet appointees. it's just totally ridiculous and hypocrisy that comes out of the mouths of these democrats calling in here. it's ridiculous. host: matt in new york. one of the events that took place yesterday in the senate, scott bessent's president's choice for treasury secretary confirmed to that position on a 68-29 vote. sharon up next, sharon in oregon, democrats line. hello. caller: hello. i'd like to deal with an issue rather than the name-calling and guessing at what he's going to do. you brought up the article and thank you for that, in "the new york times." the budget committee, republican and all branches, has told us

and you read to us some of it. one, reducing medicaid payments by establishing a work requirement that would throw 600,000 people off of it. reducing the federal government's payment to the state which would put the whole burden of medicaid on the states. your states aren't going to be able to afford it unless they raise your state taxes. repealing the tax credit for energy efficient. everybody whines about electric cars but that means that new refrigerator or new washer you guys buy because it's more economical, you got a tax credit and went in your pocket. taxing all scholarships. who gets scholarships, middle class and poor kids. now they'll pay a tax on that scholarship. ending the mortgage deduction. all you people out there who can't afford three homes but

your one home, you like taking your mortgage deduction, that will go away. now what was in the last tax one he wants to push through? abolish the alternative minimum tax, in other words, he wiped out that a person had to pay a tax. that's why bezos and a lot of those rich guys paid nothing because they used to have a minimum tax they had to pay. his tax cut in 2017 took it away. what did we get in 2017? if you made up to $86,000, you got a 3% tax cut. up to $732,000, you got 18%. if you were the 1%, you got 20%. most of the poor people calling in on your show got 3% while the rich got 20%. host: thank you for that. let's hear from joe. joe in long island, independent

line. hi. caller: yes, good morning. c-span is great. i've called numerous times. i'm on the independent line. i've got to tell you, things are for donald trump. if we don't lower the prices of everything, oil, everything, the priorities of the president at this time is make america great again. and he feels that back in the past when we was doing things correctly and, you know, running the world practically is when we need -- that's how we need to do it. no one else is going to pick up the ball. what other country is going to be able to really do the right thing for the world? you listen to these democrats, they're all doing the talking points of the democrats. they had their four years. they destroyed the country

practically. and listen, i'm not a rich person but believe me, we're hurting. the people of this country are hurting. we're paying way too much for everything. it has to change. and the people crying about it having to change, i think they always cry about having to change because they don't understand that we can't keep doing what we're doing. remember the roman empire? it did the same thing. they taxed themselves into oblivion. people couldn't pay anymore. they revolted. host: one more call from oregon. kathy, democrats' line. go ahead. caller: hi. one thing that i wanted to remind everybody about was during biden's presidency, the whole entire republican and democrats, they were trying to

get a vote on the border in order to take care of the border, people getting through, too many people getting through. and they wound up with the democrats voting for it but all the republicans complaining about too many people getting through the border voted no on it because they actually went out and said we want this to turn everybody against voted for democrats. they used that, they held that without taking care of the border when it could have been taken care of months before any election happened. i just wanted to remind people that there was a chance to have the border taken care of, and

republicans refused to do it. host: kathy in oregon finishing off this hour of calls. next to all of you who participated. first up we will hear from lisa gilbert, the copresident of a group known as public citizen to talk about the watchdog groups efforts to push back on the president's agenda. and then later a supporter of the president's agenda especially when it comes to effort to rollback the so-called dei programs, a conversation with mike gonzalez of the heritage foundation. both of those conversations coming up on "washington journal." ♪ >> democracy. it isn't just an idea, it is a process. a process shaped by leaders elected to the highest offices and entrusted to a select few with guarding its basic principles. it is where debates unfold, where decisions are made and

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>> "washington journal" continues. host: lisa gilbert is the copresident of the group known as public citizen here to talk about the agenda of the trump administration a little more. how would you describe your group to other people? guest: public service it is a consumer watchdog. our focus is to, corporate power on behalf of regular american and we do that in many different areas. protecting the environment, to improve democracy, working to improve health care and so much more. host: how are you funded? guest: very diversely but primarily by regular people. we have individual members across the country to give us $15, $20 to support. also grant funding, occasional awards, that kind of thing. but certainly we depend heavily on regular supporters across the country. host: you said you fight against corporate power. a lot targeted at the trump administration. what is the goal overall? guest: unfortunately our mission

has never been more important. this is an administration that is coming in full of people who got rich at the heads of corporations, and so corporate power is taking center stage in terms of what their goals are and urgently, as often opposite of what regular people need when we think about fewer regulatory protections on the books. that means less clean air, less clean water, a less tsay financial system. those are things that if you are ceo of a company it makes sense, you don't want to be regulated and have to do things and have guardrails in place. but if you are a regular american citizen that is exactly what you need and what government should do for you. so we are in a much more adversarial posture than we have been in a while. host: specifically how? guest: looking at some of the folks were coming in, for example, elon musk. coming in as literally the wealthiest person in the world. he is being tasked through this external entity to give

recommendations to government. so those recommendations are going to be things like slashing programs and policies and agencies that people depend on, which may benefit him, may benefit other corporate cronies, one thing we are sure of is it won't help you and me. host: the idea of cutting or at least decreasing the amount of government, is that a fundamentally wrong approach in your mind or is there some value to it? guest: i think it depends i you talk about it. certainly most regulations the goal of that is to help people. they are the endgame of legislation. if you're passing a bill, it goes to an agency and the implement it and those rules are how government goes out to the world and protects us. so generally we think that is a really good thing. that's not to say there is no waste, no fraud, no inefficiencies, there certainly are. there are a lot of ways we could save money and streamline processes if we wanted to, but is not the same sorts of policies that must and his folks are putting forward.

we think maybe we could cut the pentagon budget. there's a huge amount of waste in defense spending. we could save millions of dollars really quickly, that give final back to help regular americans. that's not the type of expection we're -- suggestion we are affecting from doge. host: if they all get appointed than others previous, fundamentally what is wrong with that? guest: you are right, 13 billionaires chosen to be part of the cabinet, that is unprecedented. someone was tallying up the wealth, it is more than the gdp of 172 individual countries, so a serious amount of money we are talking about. it's not that there is something inherently wrong with the rich or wealth, it is what it changes about your incentives. if you are thinking about government and thinking about the role of government from the posture of someone who hasn't had to see how much eggs cost right now, you have different incentives and different ways of thinking about the role of what your agency should actually be, so that is what we are concerned

about. host: if you want to ask questions about her group's efforts, (202) 748-8000 democrats. (202) 748-8001 republicans. independent, (202) 748-8002. you can always text us at (202) 748-8003. public citizen making an effort to have a seat at the table, so to speak. what is the ambition there? guest: myself and my copresident, we sent a letter to the trump transition before they were inaugurated saying we thought that we should have a seat at the table as a part of doge. we believe it is a federal advisory committee. the way it is constituted and has been reported, that means there are certain rules that apply to it. one of them is that there should be balanced representation. people who are on both sides of the aisle, people thinking about rulemaking from different perspectives. as we were just talking about we have the perspective that rules are very important for the american people so we should be a part of this effort. we don't think that the sole perspective of tech titans and

crypto bros is what we need as we are thinking about what regulations and budget lineups we have. host: what response did you get? guest: we've not gotten a response yet, we expect to be denied but certainly we think we should be seated. we have a lot to say. host: what would be the fundamental guidance you give to those on that board going forward with whatever recommendations they have to make and whatever congress decides to approve? guest: we would say that there are ways to make government more efficient, but it is not cutting programs like snap, like meals on wheels, like the funding that goes to support national parks and teachers. it is that things like fossil fuel subsidies, things that are helping massive corporations, but not really helping regular american for the environment things like cutting back on privatized medicare so that more americans get the care they need. there are a lot of things we could do to improve our government and it is not really what we've heard they are thinking about. host: this book about rules.

one of the issues concerning rulings in the last couple of days is the idea of the inspector general and the rules they had to follow. that they should have followed leading up to that. fundamentally, what did you think of the action itself? guest: incredibly problematic. the idea that in the dark of night they would let go inspectors general across government, and actually flies right in the face of what they claim to be doing with doge. inspectors general came into being after watergate. it is a bipartisan reform, still is, to think about fraud and waste of taxpayer dollars and deficiency. so the idea that we will let these people go, it proves that doge is not what it is intended to be. it kind of pulls back the curtain on what the goals of the ministration actually are and it is scary because we need those folks in place. host: does the president ultimately have the right to take the action to remove them, even if you broke the 30 day

resource rule? guest: one of the things we are thinking about is what you just said, that there is new legislation that says you have to notify congress if you're going to remove inspectors general. in some agency seek and remove for cause, some without. we are worried that rules were broken here and we are figuring out what we can do legally and also just continuing to talk about the process. host: i want to play the response of senator lindsey graham asked directly about the inspectors general being let go and get your response. here is what he had to say. senator graham: yeah, he should have done that, but the question is is it ok for him to put people in place that he things can carry out his agenda, yeah. he won the -- he won the election, what did you expect them to do? this makes perfect sense to me, get new people who feel like the government hasn't worked very well for the american people. those watchdog faulted a pretty lousy job. that makes sense to me. host: so there is a response,

what is your response to that? guest: it is not untrue that a new administration can bring in their own people. i think there is a real difference between a friday night firing of 17 people without warning and illegally without informing congress and changing pieces of government. so if there was some indication that one in general or two of them particularly need to be replaced for a certain reason and there was a plan to put someone new into place quickly, which showed the importance of inspectors general, we would be any different posture. but this is a huge number of folks to move to play such an essential role in government i don't really by what lindsey graham just said. host: this is lisa gilbert. our first call for you comes from new york state on the line for democrats. you are on, go ahead. caller: yes, good morning. i'd like to know what is the agenda for shutting down the fbi see?

guest: well certainly referred from folks within the trump administration as they start to come in that there are many people they don't like across the financial sector. that includes the fbi see, the ftc, treasury. we don't know the timeline for many of these appointments and changes, but certainly we are nervous about that. it is a good question. one of the places we watched is the cfpb, the consumer financial product bureau which absolutely matters to regular consumers. we've been surprised that the head of it has not been removed yet as he is one of our biggest consumer champions. i think we are watching all the agencies to pay attention to when and who. host: we saw the decision by the trumpet ministration yesterday, federal-aid is being frozen in some aspects. as far as the move itself, what do you think about it and what is the long-term and short-term

damage? guest: that is a pretty scary move. there's a lot of confusion about the freezing of federal grants. real people are going to be impacted. this is money that goes to universities, to nonprofits. these are the paychecks of regular americans across the country that are certainly -- suddenly uncertain. we are incredibly concerned. if it moves forward it will be effectuated tonight at 5:00 and just throwing us all into turmoil. certainly yet another instance like you discussed with the inspectors general where things are happening fast and in ways that feel very chaotic. host: one of the things that your organization has launched is a conflict of interest site. what is it and what led to its luncheon? guest: we have a new tracker on conflict of interest. what led to the launch is what we were talking about earlier, the fact that there is such a concentration of wealth and potential conflicts from the folks were coming into this administration. take pam bondi, nominated to be attorney general.

she worked as a lobbyist for ballard partners representing 30 major corporations, many of whom had business in front of the doj. they are being investigated. legal action against them. she takes the helm of that agency, suddenly she has major conflicts with former clients. it's hard to believe that she won't take that into account when she is up there, and i think that if the kind of thing we are seeing replicated over and over again with the choices they've made to have these agencies. guest: we need to see where comforts are happening, we need to see if they choose to recuse themselves from engaging in business with companies that they formerly were part of or invested in or ran. and potentially if we see conflicts, if we see violations of their easel agreements, there will be space for legal action. it's not the kind of thing we

can usually game out in advance that we are watching very closely. host: pennsylvania, democrats line, you're next. caller: when trunk breaks needs and laws and traditions, you guys don't have an immediate reaction. we have to see what we are going to do. you're not prepared for what goes wrong. and you know something is going to go wrong. i just don't understand why you were not prepared for immediate reaction. guest: i think we are but it is a really great point. this is a moment that feels very chaotic. there is every single day. it is surprising to realize it's only been a week and a half, not even quite and we've already seen this massive amount of executive orders and actions would have real consequences, and so we are prepared and ready to do everything we can to organize, to take legal action, to be out there talking to the media about what needs to happen. but it's not something we can be

ready in advance for literally everything. we are just doing all we can. host: when it comes to doge, as far as what you're watching for specifically, he said elon musk at the head of it. if congress ultimately have the power to decide or to take the advice or not, why not wait until congress decides and then concentrate on the work itself of the organization itself? guest: there's a lot to be concerned about. we are worried about it being illegal federal advisory committee, so that is why we've moved forward with the suit which i'm sure we will talk about more. but also the fact that it is so easy to think about musket enriching himself through recommendations that he will make. he has government contracts, a huge amount. we are looking at the possibility of spacex making $20 billion additionally. there is a huge amount of potential benefit if he makes call that impact that. he's also being investigated by the doj and other entities across government, so we didn't think we could wait.

we thought there's too much potential for corruption, there are too many impacts regular people, and we think it is an illegal entity so there is too much to do. host: so the focus of the suit is what? guest: we believe that doge is a federal advisory committee meeting that they have outside persons were advising inside government, in this case making recommendations about cuts and regulatory changes. to us, that is a textbook federal advisory committee governed by a law, the federal advisory committee act. that means they have to abide by the good records law, they need to have balance presentation, open meetings. none of these things are they currently doing and so the suit is about that. host: what do you think about the certain congress and committees to work alongside them as they move forward? guest: in some ways that is a credentialing exercise, members of congress saying they think it is a legitimate entity that is going to be doing things that matter. on the other hand is important that we are speaking out about

the real ways to improve government and deal with fraud and waste. i think it kind of depends which member you are talking to have the feel about, but certainly we are worried about it. host: let me show you the comments of texas republican pete sessions was going to lead a subcommittee to work with the committee. he had these things to say about that and elon musk so i will play what he had to say and get your response. >> i have no doubt that elon musk is an expert among experts at understanding not just organizational efficiencies, but better ways in which services can be provided. he has invested billions of his own dollars and has millions or tens of thousands of employees, and he has made his organizations spectacular. we believe that the federal government has the opportunity to help himself, and i think that i have very few qualms with him advising, whispering in the

era perhaps of the president, but helping us to sell the inefficiencies. he takes a huge viewpoint of making sure we are challenged and i think that is good. guest: i have huge forms, so i disagree. one of the biggest concerns is that he has no government experience. it's not untrue to say he has run successful companies, but that doesn't necessarily translate to understanding how government works, and this particular task, running an entity that is intended to improve government, without that experience seems incredibly problematic. that is aside from the bigger worries we have which i mentioned before that he would be able to profit personally from choices he makes. he might be able to stop investigations, the 11 criminal and civil investigations into must companies happening right now across government, and that of things he wants to cut, the types of choices that we've heard rumored, they are all

things that regular people really depend on. it's not the kind of choices you would be making if you are thinking about americans or how they interact with government. all of that just gives us huge paws, lots of bombs. i'm very worried. host: bruce in kentucky, independent line. caller: yes, miss gilbert, just because mr. muska doesn't have any experience in the government doesn't mean he can't come in and cut waste. where were you during the last four years? guest: where were we? thinking about these same issues. caller: how much money did the bidens rake in? guest: great question. to your first half of that, we were thinking about these exact same things. public citizen worries about waste and efficiency no matter who is at the helm. i think our concerns when we think about the types of programs and policies that we have heard rumored are on the chopping block, we get really nervous. you might have seen the cato

institute give recommendations to doge. what they suggested our cuts to social security and medicare. that's not the kind of thing that we think regular people want so we are really worried. all people who are looking at the possible cuts should be as well. host: you mentioned a conflict of interest previously, did you have a similar set up for the biden and obama administration, previous administrations? guest: absolutely. we look very closely a topic of interest across the board, filing complaints with the office of government ethics, sending them into congress, the office of congressional ethics. we are not partisan in our attention to ethical concerns. but i will say that the folks were coming in now give us far greater pause for the reasons we talked about at the top. we have never seen an administration with this level of concentrated wealth, former corporate ties and the ability to benefit personally from what they do. for choices they make. if you look at trump himself, on

sunday just before his inauguration he launched a nema coin. he was able to rake in billions just as he was coming in. people are able to directly influence politics by giving money to the president. that's nothing we've ever seen before but it comes to conflict of interest and ethics. so we are buried. it is a different scope and scale now. host: can you elaborate how that specifically is a competent interest? guest: usually presidents distance themselves from their assets and their interest but he is not this time around. there is no ethics executive order governing processes and if there was, we are worried he wouldn't follow it. the coin is something that is being sold on the market, and people can invest in it. that is something that if he can pay attention to and actually see how individuals, how potentially foreign nations, how other folks are investing in his new product at the same moment as he takes the helm of our country, that is a conflict. that is a real ethical problem. host: the website says trump

memes are intended to express as gagement by the symbolized trump andhe associated network and are not intended to be or subject of an investment opportunity, investment contract or security of any type that is the boilerplate. i suppose you have a reaction to that. guest: the first part of that sentence of the most important where it is talking about support of president trump. so you are buying something and you are supporting the president while he is president, which is something he can see and make decisions based on. that is the perception of a compliment or an actual comfort of interest. it is a problem for a nation being governed ethnically. host: is a technicality, but does it matter that it happened the day before he became president? >> it certainly became a business before he was president . host: let's hear from ron in

pennsylvania, democrats line. caller: good morning, pedro and her desk. this i got from c-span, we are the best economy under biden in five years. in immigration, the lowest amount of immigrants to come into this country under biden and harris. so as far as that goes, low unemployment rates, high wages and lower debt prices. that is all going to be gone under the guy that is in there now. what a disgrace. pardoning all those people on january 6. i tell you what, that is really disgusting. that is all i've got to say, thank you. guest: thanks for that comment. unrelated to what we've been talking about today but we are very unhappy with the pardons. just the idea that violent

offenders are back out on the street to attack police officers. that's not something i feel like the rule of law and i think particularly sad to see with an administration that has come in and talk a lot about cracking down on crime and violent offense in particular. so certainly we don't think it speaks well to the pursuit of the rule of law, and we are glad you raised it. host: karen is in california, independent line. caller: yes, good morning. i just had a comment. i think that is nice young lady is regurgitating nearly every talking point of the very reason why us independents and former democrats voted for donald trump. blaming people because they've accumulated great wealth. that is what we are all trying to do, i hope. trying to be better, be our best. these are the people we would

like, not the parasites that are professional politicians. that is really all i have to say. god bless america and thank you for c-span. host: the viewer from california. guest: thanks for the comment. as i said earlier, we are not against wealth. the problem is not being rich, the problem is whether you continue to benefit from those connections and that wealth while you are coming into public service. in one of the things we are most concerned about is that there is no ethics executive order currently government -- governing government. that is a change from the last 30 years. every administration republican or democrat. we don't have one now. in addition to these folks being more connected, they have no particular guardrails keeping them from profiting now off of you, also taxpayers in off the choices they make. host: this is a viewer this mornying to you tha are advocatingases in entitlement as a goal of proven efficiency. e fact that entitlements are

the main cf our debt. paying people not to work is killing the country. it's not about compassion or politics but about what we can afford. yes there is waste that must be addressed but we do not survive as a welfare state. guest: thanks for that comment. i think what we are looking for are things that help regular people. we may disagree on that front with the basic need for entitlements are. i think most people would agree that social security is a benefit that they care about and want and depend on, so certainly we don't want to see that cut. and i think there are many other things that people don't really realize they rely on. not just those poverty programs, but many other things that we need and depend on that i think people would be unhappy to see because. one great example is what we saw last night, the pause in france. their neighbor who works at university, many institutions and people depend on federal grants around the country. those are all suddenly paused and thrown into chaos. host: the work of doge not only

looks at the organization but the federal workforce overall. what do you think about the amount of federal workers currently employed by the government? guest: i think it's a little bit of an arbitrary could teach, the idea that there is a perfect number of federal workers or regulations. i think expands and decreases based on need. this event of red herring argument to talk about some number when instead we should be thinking about what the country desires, what laws we pass and what we need to have in place to implement them. host: the recent order by the president to return federal workers back to the office, what do you think about that? guest: i don't have a strong position in or out of office but the reason for it, at least some would say the underlying reason for it is that people don't all want to go back to the office or have figured out ways to work that are different than before the pandemic. this is intended to cull

workers, to make people leave agencies. if that is the goal i think we are worried about it. when it comes to in or out of office i'm agnostic. host: j's from florida, republican line for lisa gilbert, the copresident a public citizen, hello. caller: hello, good morning. good morning to both of you. the more i listen, the more questions i have for this person. to begin with, do you receive government funding at all in any way shape or form from any type of a grant that got cut off? the other thing is your title says challenging the trump administration agenda. so it sounds to me like you are just another resistance program and anything that he does you are not going to like. what is the main thing -- function of our federal government, isn't it just to keep people safe and to make sure that things are being handled properly, but our

country was based on competition. competition, that is what our country was based on. not handouts, and everybody needs to be equal. i'm not equal to you, i don't make what you make but you don't hear me complaining about it to anybody. have a good day. guest: a couple different things. first, no, we do not take money from the government or any corporation, we do everything we can and have a firm redline about not taking those funds so we can remain independent. wanted to address that directly. in terms of some of what you were saying, we actually agree. it is very important that government function to protect regular people. that is what we think as well, that is the role of government. certainly we are doing everything we can to try to make sure that it does that so we are incredibly supportive of competition. that is something we work on the antitrust policy.

we think it is really pivotal that they're not the corporate concentration, that every small business, everyone who wants to compete is able to. and we think that regulations and guardrails make that possible. so maybe that is the one place where we disagree. i couldn't agree more, competition is the bedrock of american economy. host: the graphic challenging the trump administration, that comes from us. to clarify for the caller. florida, you are on with the guest. caller: yes, my question is this doge thing they are coming up with, they said they wanted to cut down the size of government. this is nothing but a rip, they are going to try to rip the american people off. if you have a felon running the government, don't you think he is a criminal that is going to change his ways? the man has been stealing all his life.

he comes off with all this mess about immigration, that is nothing but a smokescreen. guest: thanks for that. i think we are worried about some of the things that you just raised, the idea that what doge is going to do is make recommendations that hurt us all. but we are thinking about the importance of regulations, what they do is set up the guard that protect our air and water that encourage competition. it is labels that tell their safety violations. making sure that food has an outbreak, it is recalled. it is the things we interact with day in and day out so we are very worried that changes will impact us all. host: you talk about nominees. this is from yesterday, the senate confirming scott bessent. guest: i think again, we are worried that he is one of the

billionaires we talked about who has potential conflict of interest coming into the cabinet. that he will have postures that are not best for regular americans. treasury plays a huge role in the stability of our economy and also in dealing with systemic risk, the idea that there could be a crash like back in 2008. treasury's monitoring was happening across our economy and i think we want to make sure the devs are correct we are worried about what kind of positions he would take. host: is it specifically positions people take that benefits him? guest: we can't prejudge, we will see what refusals he put into place. i'm hopeful he will do the right thing but it is something we are watching closely. we are not very aligned when it comes to how we think about the economy so it is possible he will take postures that we disagree with. that is different than ethical conflicts. host: if you are asks if you specifically, which of the former president agenda or

nominees to public citizen pushback on? guest: i mean, me specifically, i got a chance to testify about pam bondi just last week. as we've been doing a conflict of interest tracker we've been uncovering particular conflicts in places where we are worried people will not be able to remain unbiased in their new roles, so i had an opportunity to talk about her specifically and just the legion of interconnected conflicts. in particular things like the work she's done on behalf of private prisons where we see lots of damages and human rights abuses. her work on behalf of amazon which of course has been investigated and sued by the doj. things like that make us really worried. host: let me clarify, specifically which of former president bidens agenda were nominees to do pushback on? guest: got it. apologies. thinking about president biden i think we were worried that a number of things. one thing that come to mind piggly because it with a variant of the administration, we were unhappy with the executive order they put forth calling for

increased data centers across the country with less and guardrails. the data centers were intended to create more energy for artificial intelligence purposes, worried that they wanted to do so with less environmental standards and with an excellent process for permitting. so we were loud and out there with a letter in the very final days saying that was a problem. host: we for this president talk about ai over the past couple of days. we've seen a lot of tech people like mark zuckerberg and the like being at the inauguration. what do you think about the idea of technology in the next administration? guest: we certainly think innovation and technology is important, we are not against tech. but the concerns we have are much more about conflicts and the people who are coming in having the ability to influence the benefits that the company receives. as we think about the concentrated power in certain companies, in meta, in amazon,

google, these companies have different power and potential than small companies that are coming to the marketplace and the ability to have even more contracts with our government. that is what is on the line eight is one of the reasons that as you say, they eat huge donations to the inauguration, they are pandering a lot of ways that make us nervous like taking down mis- and disinformation guardrails that they had in place for years. all of that is intended to get include with the administration and potentially get some of those benefits. host: let's hear from john in seattle, washington, democrats line. caller: good morning. longtime listener, first time caller. i just had a couple comments and then i have a question if that's ok. i just wanted to point out that

i've been a lifelong democrat. i don't even know if i'm going to change to independent, i might go republican when i go to reregister this week. i can't believe what i hear and see anymore. so i will quickly get onto my comment. this lady saying she is independent or her group is is very suspicious and questionable. i don't believe i've ever seen her or her group talk about joe and kamala and their reckless policies and spending the last four years. host: you're on with her so if you have a comment directly to her, go ahead. caller: ok, great, thank you. i do have one question for her. big news in this area is there was a video put out about a medicare immigrant that left their receipt at one of our local grocery stores and the

card that they used, the receipt that came out that was left said over $1400 in benefits. i think it said almost $800 in cash benefits. so if people really want to know where they're medicare or medicaid and their state money goes, that is just one person. host: ok. that viewer goes back to whether he thinks it is the waste, fraud and abuse of programs. guest: as i said at the top, it is a helpful thing to raise. we don't think that there is no waste or fraud across government, and there are bad actors and individuals who abuse any system that is set up. i think our concern is much more high-level, that for every person like that that you raised, and obviously i don't know the instances of that particular situation, there are many others, your friends or neighbors who depend on those same programs or policies.

a wholesale cut of something like the department of education is very different than aching about individual waste, fraud and abuse. to go back to an earlier discussion we had, one of the things that really worries us about the firing of inspectors general sauce government is that that is their job. to look at and find individual instances ate deal with it, so we need them in place. host: jamie is in pennsylvania, independent line. caller: very nice to speak to you. first time caller, longtime watcher. i have a comment for this guest. you are a citizen of the united states, as are all of us, correct? guest: correct. caller: and i understand you have a group and it is supposed to be independent. true independence means that you don't look at democrat or republican, ok? trump has said repeatedly

including yesterday and today he is not going to cut medicaid, medicare or social security. the biden administration actually took all this money and gave it to the illegal people that are crossing, ok? pennsylvania has continually cut since governor walz. my statement is that trump is notorious because he has a business and everything else. george washington, adams, jefferson, they all ran businesses while being president. that is historical. it's really important not to continue to just bash trump. he is firing people, which obama did the same thing. he this not aware in the first

presidency and he was told not to do this. every president has the right. they are not voted in, they can fire them. they've done it for centuries. well, 250 years. so i think you need to go and stop worrying so much about this stuff. and regulations have been so hard on this nation since the 50's that we need to go and be common sense about it. host: you put a lot out there for the guest so we will let her respond. guest: helpful. lots of different points, as you said. i think what we were just talking about, the firing of the 17 inspectors general friday night is different because it is potentially illegal. there is a law that says you have to give 30 day notice to congress when you fire those who are charged with fraud and waste inspection like inspectors general.

so that is a little different. it's not to say that you are correct, presidents can come in and change who is in office, they nominate their own cabinets, they bring people in. other political appointees are at their own ability to change at any point. there is no argument there. the things that are happening to career appointees, folks who never expected to be at the whim of any particular executive that we are most worried about in addition to what just happened to the inspectors general. host: the website for public citizen's citizen.org. they say gilbert serves as the copresident. thanks for your time today. coming up about 30 minutes from now we will have a supporter of the president's agenda from heritage foundation talking about the future of so-called eei programs in the federal government. but first, open forum. if you want to participate, (202) 748-8000 democrats. (202) 748-8001 republicans. independents, (202) 748-8002. we will take those calls when "washington journal" continues.

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from our signature programs. listen to c-span's bookshelf podcast feed today. you can find the bookshelf podcast feed and all of our podcasts on the free c-span now mobile video app, or wherever you podcasts, and on our website, c-span.org/podcasts. washington journal continues. host: you can participate on the phone lines in open forum. as always you can text us your thoughts and if you want to post on our social media channels, we have a presence on facebook and on x. to give you a rundown of things to look out for today, congressional republicans attending the annual retreat this week in florida. this morning house speaker mike hnn set to give a press coerence. that was scheduled to start at 00 but we are going to hear probably ler on in the morng from them. the leadership there when it coto what they are talking

about in florida with the president. later on at 10:00, a senate hearing examining the panama canal before the senate commerce, science and transportation committee. you can see that on our main channel c-span and also on our other platforms. and then at 10:30 today, former service members and advocates talk about the community care program for the senate veterans affairs committee. the hearings being held amid concerns about how president trump's executive order on a government hiring freeze could impact access to veterans benefits. c-span3 is where you can see that as well as our other platforms. as always you can check out the website and the app for the latest information on what we are covering in and around washington. in maine, this is from beverly, republican line, go ahead. caller: good morning, everybody. i am so pleased to be able to get through to c-span. for the second time.

i adore c-span since the very beginning and i feel we are so fortunate to know what the public is thinking. and i would like to make a comment on january 6. i watched as people gathered wherever that was. there were 40,000 peaceful people listening to president trump. he said he was going to walk with them to the capital. his driver in the car would not take them there. he did not grab the throat of the driver, the driver was online and set that didn't happen. but anyway, the worst people that did any harm were on trial and sent to prison, so i am very

much in favor of president trump. thank you. host: that is beverly. let's go to rick in boston, democrats line. caller: this guy ain't done nothing for this country. whole family at the white house, all this garbage that is going on, a whole bunch of garbage running this country. garbage. you've got garbage running the country and whatnot. everything is corrupt from the top to the bottom and whatnot. like i said, everybody is kissing is behind and whatnot. this guy is nothing but garbage just like putin. host: massachusetts, independent line. caller: i didn't know if

somebody was going to speak on the ddi but maybe in the next hour. what i was wondering is i'm glad they are getting rid of the departments. i am a union guy so i hope they incorporate other folks that want to stay into another department or something, but what i'm concerned about is what i like the government to do, i don't believe you can freeze any kind of grant from the state to the community, but what i was wondering is if the administration would consider, the more you think about it, consider not funding some state programs if the state continues to give ddi grants out. host: why would you support such a move? caller: what i supported? host: why would you support it? caller: because i kind of feel like there's already programs when it comes to helping folks get jobs, helping folks if they

need food, housing. and then they also, i think there's laws on the books that you could definitely not discriminate based on anybody's sex, who they love, the color of their skin and religion. that is why i tend to favor my position. host: mason in ohio, democrats line. caller: good morning. i'm going to take party out of things for a hot minute because i know we are separated between democrats, republicans and independents, but what i've heard on today's show is stunning. i need everybody was listening to take a deep breath. at the end of the day in this country, everybody works. and when the work, we pay taxes. and when i am disabled because i have a broken back, my 30 years

of work and taxes are going to go to support me. that is what every american should believe. but i do not agree with is i do not agree with this new us vs. them, what is mine and what is theirs. in this country we believe in the children of this country building a better future. we should support and educate our children. we should support our elderly who have worked their whole lives and do not deserve to live in meager conditions. we should support those who cannot support themselves due to disabilities that allow them not even to leave their homes. until we can get to that we are all americans and this government works for us and works for our benefit, we are not getting anywhere. and what isn't going to promote us moving forward to a more peaceful, better country is crux

in the white house working for themselves and no one else and stoking the fires of anger. host: that is mason in ohio. the deer from ned in virginia, republican line. caller: just a couple of comments about lisa gilbert's presentation this morning. it's disingenuous when someone comes on your show and presents a dialogue and doesn't expose who is supporting them. in other words, she was so proud to say her organization doesn't accept any public funding. that is because she is heavily funded by george soros, the carnegie corporation. probably a dozen left-wing progressive billionaires. and the whole agenda of her organization is the left. so it's very obvious that she is so anti-trump agenda because her agenda is the exact opposite.

so when he got rid of the green new deal, which is one of the big agenda items, that would be a concern to her. and i think it is really important that when people get on the air and start talking to your audience, they do explain to them who is behind them, who is supporting them, where the funding comes from. host: that is ned in virginia. one of the other things to watch out for, the first press briefing by the new press secretary. she will give that at 1:00 this afternoon. the first press briefing in the new administration. our main channel, c-span is where you can see it. and our website at c-span.org. judy is in mississippi, independent line. caller: i want to know what medicare recipients are going to feel like when they are pushed off to medicare advantage.

dr. oz has stock in two medicare advantage companies and a few months ago there was mcclintock, i think was his last name, one woman asked how is he going to treat the consumers, he said there would be more people offering medicare advantage, ok? medicare advantage has an issue with paying claims, so i just hope they will be satisfied when they get what is coming as far as their medicare in their health. medicare pays regardless to medicare advantage. if they don't want to pay, they deny you that money. so i just wanted to know what you think about that. i don't think somebody in the

government like dr. oz should be benefiting from medicare advantage. host: jodey talking about nominees by the administration, some yet to be confirmed. one of those who was confirmed, pete hegseth. he appeared at the pentagon yesterday to talk about being the defense secretary of the united states, talked about military operations particularly when it comes to the u.s. mexico border. >> whatever is needed at the border will be provided. whether that is through state active duty, title 32 or title x. because we are reoriented. this is a shift. this is not the way business has been done in the past. the defense department will support the defense of the territorial integrity of the united states of america at the southern border to include reservists, national guard and active duty in compliance with the constitution for the laws of our land and the directives of the commander-in-chief. >> there is a possibility of

invoking the insurrection act, yes? >> those will be decisions made by the white house. i look forward about anything we need to do to ensure we are securing our southern border. host: more nomination hearings tomorrow, health and human services nominert kennedy, jr. will testify before the senate f comttee. he is an environmental lawyer tivi and also a 2024 independent presidential candidate he withdrew from race to endorse now president trump. that hearing 10:00 eastern. you can see that on c-span. on thursday mr. kennedy returns to capitol hill this time taking estion before the senate health committee. that is thursday. c-span3 is where you can see that and the other platforms. another one to watch out for thursday, tulsa gabbard, nominee to become thet he of the director of national intelligence. she will be before the senate common intelligence 10:00. our main channel is where you can see that.

john from tennessee, democrats line, go ahead. caller: yes, i think it is time for the american people to stand up and demand an end to the immunity clause that is protecting the president as well as congress, the police, elected officials on a federal and state level as well as our prisons and jails. this way it would hold them more accountable to people, especially when they break the laws. that's all i have to say at this time. thank you for letting me voice my opinion. host: new jersey, republican line. caller: hello, how are you doing? i have a comment about the speaker who had on earlier. from the republican party about how you're going to cut social security and medicare, but i want to put the democrats up to this question. where were you on the position of allowing ssi and ssb

recipients to collect their benefit and allow them to work as much as they want to the way they do and collect social security. keeping the government contracts , so please, have your viewers comment on that proposition. thank you. host: martinsburg, west virginia. tony, independent line. caller: yes, sir. i am an american and when i listen to all these folks, you get this perspective that people are focusing on reality.

trump was supposedly a reality star or whatever. i never watched the programs. where are they at? you've got to get a, people. trump has taken over the government, ok. he is a dictator all the way, and and people just don't realize that he even has total power over 300 40 million people. ok? he's only one guy and he has that much power. and he's taken it to the limit. -- if people don't realize what he's doing, we are in a world of hurt. host: ok. joe, louisiana, democrats line, you are next up. caller: good morning. i have two concerns. the first one is can you have

someone on the program to explain the new definition of being woke? in my community, it was an admonition to us to be aware of what's going on in our state, local, and national government so that we can make informed, intelligent decisions when we vote. being woke is being aware. seemingly, nowadays it has a negative connotation. so, i would really love to know what is the new meaning of being woke. the second is a request to c-span. february is coming. it is the black history month.

last year, i was really kind of disappointed in the types of programming that you had in commemoration of the progress and contributions that the black race has made to the united states of america. so, this year, i hope that in your planning you talk about the accomplishments. how we have contributed to the good and the well-being of the united states of america. instead of having on individuals who only discuss controversial issues. black history is supposed to make individuals aware of what we as my community have made to the united states of america. take that into consideration when you are planning programs commemorating black history. host: and i will invite people to go to the website, check out

what we've done in years past when it comes to black history month and segments we have done in association with that, if you want to check out those things for yourself, type it into the search walks. c-span.org is where you can find that. brian, texas, republican line, hi. caller: good morning, pedro. hillary clinton in 2008 said much of the same thing regarding immigration currently being said today. barack obama made a speech from the east tall where he said much of the same thing in terms of illegal immigrants and violent criminals. democrats remain silent. based on -- [no audio] host: are you there question mark you are breaking up a bit, but go ahead. caller: based on the last four years, how could 29 democrats vote against an openly gay

nominee for treasury secretary that is more than qualified for that position? are they homophobic? using democrats own logic for the last four years. that's all i have. host: chris, georgia, independent line, you are next up. caller: my biggest -- there's a lot of issues with the biden administration. my biggest worry or concern is dr. fauci. here's a guy who in 2014, at the same time that obama said no more function with the disease experiment, anyway, that's when dr. fauci went to china, 2014, started all those experiments on bats that turned out to be covid

. millions of people die and he is pardon for it. there's no investigation. the media doesn't care. this is one of the biggest things to happen this century and no one is investigating what really happened and why he got pardoned. that's all i have to say. host: axios reporting that when it comes to immigration and customs enforcement, 35 hundred arrests made in the first week of the trump administration being back in office. the president talked about that during his press conference in florida yesterday, talking about this recent immigration crackdown. here's the president yesterday. [video clip] >> we halted all illegal entry. we are deporting 100% of all trespassers at the border. nobody is coming in and nobody is coming out because they know they can't come in, we really stop something. it's serious. have to get the bad ones.

many murderers. many bad people in the country that have been allowed because of ridiculous, stupid open border policy. i have also deployed troops to the border. for the first time in history we are locating and loading illegal aliens into military aircraft and flying them back to the places from which they came. very importantly, america is respected again. we are respected again. isn't that nice? after years of laughing at us like we are stupid people. as you saw yesterday, we made it clear to every country, they will be taking back our people that we are sending out. the criminals in the illegal aliens coming from their countries. they are going to take them back fast and if they don't, they will pay a high economic price. we will immediately install massive tariffs.

it will be placed on them. host: mark, tampa, democrats line. caller: i don't know why trump is bragging about using military aircraft to fly these deportees out of the country when that costs three times the amount of what it costs the biden administration to fly the same people out using commercial aircraft. where's doge on this one? it's all a show. he's got dr. phil out there making a tv show about these deportations. i think that this is going to come back to bite people when we have labor shortages in the industries that support the migrant workers, you know? grocery prices are going to be going up on vegetables and a lot

of things, you know? in the gulf of mexico, we should try to do something that actually lowers prices instead of blocking biden programs that were going to be lowering prescription drug prices for generic drugs to two dollars for medicare recipients. he blocked that. he doesn't want lower drug prices. he ordered all federal workers to return to work, yet on monday, where was he? out on the golf course. donald trump, jr. said that if you collect a paycheck from the government, you have to show up to work. i agree with that, donald trump, jr.. host: holocaust survivors in world leaders gathered in auschwitz on monday to mark the anniversary of the liberation of the nazi death camp, probably

the last major anniversary that some survivors could attend. organizers said that they decided against incorporating speeches from politicians so that the survivors would be the central focus. it was also a way to keep politics out in a moment when postwar firewalls against the far right have been cracking and tensions over the war in the middle east have been accompanied by rising anti-semitism in europe and the united states. the event was attended by the education minister of israel, the highest ranking israeli official to attend. among the dignitaries work olaf scholz, president macron, king charles, presiden zelensky, and the u.s. delegation was represented by steven witkoff, the newly appointed special envoy to the middle east. florida, port st. lucie, anthony, next up on the independent line. caller: yeah, how you doing, pedro cup -- pedro?

i call you the enforcer. i appreciate all you all. you had a question earlier about a priority. i got a love-hate relationship with our president right now. i respect the seat. i was in the military for eight years. police officer in washington, d.c. for 11 years. got hurt in a shootout. i believe in order, respect the order of who's in charge. priorities, i feel, to help people like you and i have the opportunity to have a fair life, to make our life the american dream, to pursue liberty and justice and have it be fair to us, the main thing is the work. i do support those that are immigrants, you know.

if you are not here fairly, you are allowed to come back the right way. but we have got a lot of young folks, my daughter, 20 something in this generation, at a young age, man, is not putting, it was not put there, in my daughter's age i was in the navy, right? 25, i graduated, didn't want to do something. everybody's just, but most of them, they can do more. i think the drugs, the marijuana and everything, is taking on the generation. i think that what's going on, i hope it gets our young generation up to be more focused and being to where they need to be, whether it be in the field or making hubcaps like i seen some on the news in detroit, they complain about how it hurts their situation with canada. host: ok. that's anthony in florida. let's hear from christopher in maryland, republican line.

caller: good morning. trump derangement syndrome on cnn's every day. your guest this morning kept on saying she was nonpartisan, but everything they said, that she said, was against trump and republicans. it's amazing to me that you have these guests on and just because they say they are nonpartisan doesn't mean they are nonpartisan. so, that's what i wanted to say. i hope that you will have more republican responses. it seems that they are more from the left on your program. host: i invite you to stay and watch the heritage foundation's mike gonzalez join us next. appreciate you watching c-span. leslie in pennsylvania, democrats line, hi.

caller: good morning, pedro. real quick, i want to talk about the hypocrites that jesus railed against. trump is waging war on these immigrants. the majority of them are working and pay taxes. calling them all criminals. but he just released over 1500 criminals that beat and insulted police officers. talk about hypocrites. may god have mercy on this country for electing this man. thank you for c-span. host: phil, florida, independent line. caller: yes, pedro. i'm concerned about the deporting of the illegal immigrants. we are a nation of laws. if we don't adhere to the laws, we are a lawless society. i was listening to a show last night where they brought up

numbers, averaging 133 deportations a week so far. that doesn't even take into account the expense of the airplanes and all this stuff to fly them out. let's say that we had 20 million illegals in the country. 1000 week, that's 384 years to get rid of 20 million. god knows the expense. anyway, the radio host suggested making an announcement, give the illegals 30 days to leave the country, provide them gas money and a thousand dollars or what have you when they get to the border, send them on their way, it would be much less expensive than these jumbo jet airlines and everything. if they don't leave in the 30 days, keep them for two years,

put them to work rebuilding the country's infrastructure, and then send them back. host: ok. let's hear from james. last call from georgia. democratic line. hello. caller: i just want to make a statement. i think people of color should read the book by roland martin, white fear. that's all i'm seeing come on there. these people that trump supporters are backing, they are just afraid that people of color will become the majority. thank you, that's all i have to say. host: james finishing this open forum. next we hear from mike gonzales of the heritage foundation talking about the trump administration intends to roll back federal di programs and his

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those who are making things happen. weekly hour-long conversations that regularly feature fascinating authors of nonfiction books on a wide variety of topics. the about books podcast takes you behind-the-scenes of the nonfiction books industry with insider interviews, industry updates, and bestseller updates. find all the podcasts by downloading the free c-span now apple or wherever you get your podcasts or our website. that's c-span.org/podcasts. >> "washington journal" continues. host: joining us now is mike gonzalez of the heritage foundation, senior fellow there talking about the trump administration effort on di programs. good morning to you. guest: good morning. great to be on with you. host: talk about the heritage foundation. from your perspective in the eei space, what is your perspective on it? guest: we are a conservative

think tank that formulate policies. one of the things that we do and one part of the process is to oppose diversity, equity, and inclusion. these words sound very mom and apple pie. who could be against diversity, equity, and inclusion? we have concluded that as they are now included -- interpreted, it means the opposite diversity means quotas that are illegal. equity is the functional opposite of equality. you have to treat the government and private sector, individual americans different we depending on their race. inclusion means language codes. if i wear a cap that says jesus saves to a mall, i could be thrown out in the name of inclusion. that's not inclusive language. that's the reason we chose to oppose these policies. for many other reasons as well, but i wanted to explain that. how could anyone be against it? for that reason. host: are there any government

programs that practice what you just said? guest: anything that requires -- all of -- anything that requires federal contractors to require or show that they have di trainings, that they hire, that they hire or promote preferentially on race or sex, any of these things. by the way, all of these things are illegal. in the federal government throughout the last four years, one of the first thing biden did was sign an executive order, 13589, which really spread diversity and inclusion throughout all the federal governments, doing all of these things that are illegal and i would add immoral. host: this is not a new concept as far as programs are concerned when it comes to the federal government. why focus on it so sharply now? guest: the reason for that is,

yes, you are absolutely right, these things have been building up over the last 10 years. since 2020, when we had the riots in the streets, biden gets elected behind that mayhem and covid-19, we had a huge push on the part of the comedy, the, the cultural gatekeepers in the corporate world and on the part of the biden administration because of executive order 13985. it said that all of the government, every agency and department must have a di program and enforce it, have an office and a director of di. -- d ei. that's the reason it was put on steroids. trump began to see some of this in september of 2020, just a few months before the election, two months before the election. he banned dei practices because

of what was happening in 2020. now he's gone back to the band. host: absent of those programs, how do you ensure that the government is diverse, equitable, and inclusive? guest: great question. one of the executive orders starts out by saying that we have civil rights laws that must be enforced. we have to treat every american with dignity. we have to hire on a colorblind and promote on a colorblind approach. we must actively enforce our nation's civil rights laws. everything is predicated on that. host: elaborate on that. guest: everything is predicated on the fact that we have a very robust set of civil rights structure and apparatus, that we have the civil rights act itself

. title vii. we have the 14th amendment of the constitution, saying that all americans must be treated and receive equal treatment under the law. if we apply that, if we make sure that the first use of affirmative action, the first use in the 40's, but not that, the first use by kennedy and 61 was an executive order that said that government contractors had to hire and promote without regard to race, without regard to race. we have to enforce that. the original meaning of affirmative action. it got turned around, unfortunately, post 65 into hiring and promoting with regard to race. host: you wrote a recent piece looking at the programs with a headline that said dei dei "the trump dismantling of his deeper

and bigger than you know." how so? guest: one of the things he did was rescind an executive order from lbj in 1965, 11246, which really said -- set the precedent for quotas. the executive order was signed only two months after lbj gave his howard commencement speech in which he turned around the meaning of civil rights from what i just said, hiring and promoting without regard to race to hiring and promoting with regard to race. it shows a degree of sophistication from the trump people that was not there at the beginning of the first term. i have come in and really done their homework. a colleague of mine has been writing extensively on 11246 and saying that anything done

without rescinding this from 1965 will be for naught. lo and behold, in the trump order revoking dei, he revokes that. host: the laborepartment says that the executive order from lbj, september of 1965, establish requirements for nondiscriminatory practices in hiring and appointment on the part of u.s. governmt contractors, prohibiting federal contractors and subcontractors who do business with the federal government from discriminating in employment decision on the base of national origin, religion, race, or sex. guest: it has been interpreted to mean quotas and is cited to mean quotas in the decades since. host: so, if that is gone, but make sure the principles stay the same? guest: we have the civil rights act, title vi, title vii. we cannot act -- we are a very

diverse country, as evidenced by you and i sitting here at this table. we cannot have the government act or make decisions based on race. this has happened under steroids under biden. this puts an end to that. enforce the civil rights act, enforce the constitution, the constitution of 1787, the only one we have. liberals like to think we have a living constitution. no, we have to live by that one, as it has been amended. well, it was amended after the civil war. the 14th amendment says all americans have to be treated with, you know, equal treatment under the law. we have to apply that. host: mike gonzalez of the heritage foundation joining us. he's their senior fellow. want to ask them questions about the programs, (202) 748-8000 for democrats, (202) 748-8001 were republicans, and independents, (202) 748-8002 if you want to

text your comments or questions, do that at (202) 748-8003. the president talks about a merit-based approach. how does that work itself forward absent of the programs being eliminated or paused? guest: let's say for example university admissions. you admit people on the basis of their gpa, on the basis of their standardized tests, their sats, acts, on the degree of afterschool activities. they have demonstrated to have done. you admit that this person has the ability to do the academic work required at an institution of higher learning. because she has demonstrated in high school.

that is meritocracy. that is what all of us ask. we want to be, when we achieve something, we want to say i did that through my hard work. i didn't go to the party. i stayed home and did my homework. i really, i crunched the numbers. i deserve that job. i deserve that promotion. all americans have the right to claim that. i think we need to restore that. host: in the federal government can do the same, what about that? caller: guest: obviously -- guest: obviously, yes, the same thing is replicated to the federal government, through the private sector, a colorblind approach to does this person have the requirements to fulfill this job, is this person going to add value to my company? does he or she have the requirements to do right by the

american people in the case of the federal government? host: did you expect the president to enact so much in the first week? guest: no. i was elated. i expected dei, i actually expected it in education. i expected it to be all in. i don't think anybody expected 22 executive orders. no, 26, excuse me, in the first day. president bush, george w. bush did not issue a single executive order in his first or second term on his first day. barack obama issued i think two in his first day in first term. none in his second term. 22 is a record. i am glad to. they have been really crushing this in the transition. and before the transition. it shows a level of sophistication that really

differs from anything we have seen before in previous administrations, including the first trump term. this shows that they come in with experience and meaning to do business. host: let's hear from viewers. patricia, new jersey, democratic line, you are on with mike gonzales. heritage foundation. go ahead, please. caller: go ahead -- good morning, america. we've only had civil rights since the 60's. this is the reminder. all of the people who come to america have truly benefited from the fight. even from the 60's, the fight of natural, to make your life better, to make the life of other people come here better. even europeans from eastern europe, now. they lived great because of african americas fight.

we do need some type of civil rights being enforced. it's not happening, as we can see. thank you for letting me share. host: i think we need civil rights -- guest: i agree, we need civil rights enforce strongly. the federal government needs to make sure that all of the united states, anyone hiring or promoting by this structure that we have to make sure that americans are treated according to their ability and according to their actions, not according to some immutable characteristic they can do nothing about. these two are race and sex, immutable characteristics that you're born with. you cannot be judged on these traits. host: john, new mexico, republican line.

caller: thank you for taking my call. i'm a first time caller. i've been watching the show quite a bit, like the last year. it's just beyond me, the gall of the democrats. i mean, the democrats, they were , they started off the backs of slaves. andrew jackson in mississippi. how come the democrats don't talk about their history. and then after the civil war, which the democrats were rebelling against america and wanted to start a new country of their own, i mean, how -- i am so sad that my country has devolved. host: ok, that's john in new mexico. guest: you don't have to go back to jefferson davis.

the democrats of the previous administration that just concluded january 20 violated the law in the sense that it is very plain that you cannot consider race or have racial quotas. the supreme court decided that in backing 1978, quotas were unconstitutional. all of the statutes i mentioned before made it clear that you cannot consider race in these decisions. it got to the point where "the new york times" called heritage in late 21 or early 22, i forget which, and said that the administration realizes that by having this raft of laws that are race based, it's violating the law and losing in the courts, so it's going to change the language. so, to do the same thing, that will change the language to serve those communities. they found euphemisms and

continue doing it. so yeah, i don't think that we have to go back to, too, to jefferson davis, awful as he was, disgusting as those democrats were, what we just saw it recently was bad enough. i agree with john. host: taking you back one week, hakeem jeffries spoke about the ceos targeting programs and he gave his perspective. i want to get your perspective on it. [video clip] >> diversity, equity, and inclusion are american values. it's about economic opportunity for everyone. we support merit for everyone. based on what you know, not who you know. the problem that seems to be unfolding is that there are some in this country who want an america of the billionaires, by

the billionaires, for the billionaires. not for working-class americans. middle-class americans. or every day americans. a country of the billionaires, for the billionaires. diversity, equity, and inclusion are about economic opportunity for everyone. even if you are not wealthy, well off, or well-connected. these are values that everybody in this country should embrace. we are going to take this issue, working with the civil rights groups, head on. host: what's your assessment? guest: it was an outrageous comment. it reminded me, pedro, i told my colleague, andrew, in response to this, that it is outrageous they are now painting dei as mom

and apple pie and part of the meritocracy. it is the opposite of that. dei was the opposite -- it -- it -- it -- it promotes the opposite approach. you go back, dei is the operating system of a bunch of critical theories that emerged in the 80's and 90's. critical race, gender theory. all dei does is apply that. the trainings are a way to indoctrinate the country in the workplace or the schoolhouse into not liking the status quo, hating the status quo, hating history, hating the origin of america and adopting a completely different approach, a completely different race-based, race and sex-based preferential treatment, moral and dangerous, but now they are saying dei is about meritocracy. it's not. i can show you -- i didn't bring

it with me -- reams of writings by the pioneers of critical race theory in which they take issue with meritocracy. they say that meritocracy is a lie. that we cannot have a meritocracy and should not be seeking meritocracy. if that is the best they can do, we have the goods in the receipts. host: mike gonzalez of the heritage foundation, joining us. greg, north carolina, independent line, you are next up. caller: i'm a 21-year-old military veteran -- i'm a 21 year military veteran. you mentioned that there were riots in the street, but you omitted the fact that that was reaction from george floyd, giving the misleading perception of what he's speaking about to begin with. secondly, jim crow is a major reason for programs like dei, because of race-based hiring practices america was already participating in, which is

insane for you to perceive it as not being necessary now. lastly, dei practices trying to be implemented now, it takes away the ability for tuskegee airmen to be mentioned in air frace -- air force training, which my grandfather was one of. what is your response to that? guest: thank you for your service. you are quite wrong on several fronts. when you talk about the riots in 2020, i don't think that they were -- it was a manipulation of organizations founded by marxists who wanted to change the country and we had a great deal of violence for many months. you mentioned dei as a response to jim crow. no, this is a mistake that good-natured people, good americans of good will make

consistently. the response to jim crow was kennedy's original affirmative action executive order, 61, to say that the federal government and federal contractors will not anymore hire or promote with regard to race, ethnicity, or national origin. that was the original meaning of it. it was reversed in the years that followed. after lbj made comments with executive order 11246, and i want to make sure that i address the study of tuskegee. i believe that this is somebody inside, was the air force? host: yes. guest: somebody in the air force wants to sabotage this. just like librarians who are told not to have borne on the shelves will then ban romeo and

juliet to create a scandal and attract media attention, this is the same. whoever did that was probably sabotaging the intent of the order. yes, absolutely everybody should study what happened at tuskegee. host: recent reporting saying that the course that features the tuskegee airmen has been replaced. guest: of course. of course. i hope that person is talked to. host: the president when it comes to those employees involved in dei programs, reporting that those people should be laid off. what do you think of that step? guest: they will be put on unpaid leave, first. actually, i think that's, that's perfectly reasonable and what should happen. we will have a problem. a lot of them have studied really bad degrees.

ethnic studies, hispanic studies, gender studies, things that do not give you the skills to create value in the private sector or do right by the american people in the public sector. they have insane salary expectations. they are now going to be out there without their job. their job was, again, to repeat, illegal in many cases. illegal in many cases, creating a danger for the country. in my view, it was immoral. what happens to those people will be very interesting to follow. host: let's hear from bob in new york, democratic line, you are next, sir. go ahead. caller: thank you for taking my call. this di policy that you have was written into -- dei policy that you have was written into project 2025.

the man that wrote project 2025 is the head of the budget in this administration. my question to you is this, during the campaign many people here on this network had said that donald, president trump, had said that he had no association with this particular project. that he didn't know these particular people that put out this particular paper and that he was distancing himself from 2025. it's now in the playbook. my question to you is this -- did president trump, donald, lied to the american public during the campaign when he said he had no association with this particular program? host: bob, new york. guest: president trump speaks for himself. i don't pretend to speak for him or his administration. i wrote a chapter in project 2025 and it had nothing to do with dei -- well, it did,

tangentially, it was about dissolving pbs and c-span, which i think does a fantastic job. . i can tell you as a fact that the idea that i would have called anybody in the trump campaign or the transition to ask anything about what i was writing is ludicrous. they lie about us. they lie about the project. they lie about the intent of the project. they spend millions of it, for nothing, by the way, money they burned. no, i never, i wrote what i thought was right. i wrote according to my research . never called anybody to ask what they thought of it. host: randy, indiana, republican line. caller: i love the show, i kind

of have a perspective on the show. i am recently retired human resources. i can remember when we had to meet a quota for black, hispanic people in our office. it was very hard. there were times we had to overlook somebody who was well, but we had to change it for somebody else who was less qualified but because of the color of their skin. we had to do this every year. we got audited and it was ridiculous. my other side of this is two of my children are biracial and all through their school years i was always, i would always make a boxed, biracial, not black-and-white, but the school demanded and wanted me to put black because of more benefits. it benefits the school, it benefits this. when we got to college we had a long conversation, because they

had to pay for college. i told them, you do it however you want, this is up to you, but both of my children did not want to be in a victim boxed. they continued the biracial, this is what i am, you cannot make me choose one boxer the other. that probably costs them some grants and what have you. it has made people very upset. my kids, i always raised them, all of them. we are not victims, you will not be a victim. so that's just my kind of perspective on this. i just want to share that. again, thank you for taking my call. guest: brandy, thank you very much. you personify the tragedy of what we are discussing here. the fact that you had to hire people who were less qualified and not hire people who were, who met the qualifications, is a

tragedy. it's a tragedy for all 330 million americans. we all benefit when the best people are doing their job. you know, when i, when i go on a bridge or go in a tunnel, i want that tunnel and that bridge to have been drawn and erected by architects and engineers who knew what they were doing. in fact, if that were not the case, i wouldn't want to go in that bridge or tunnel. hopefully, we could now go back to that kind of country. with regards to the way you raise your family, your children are extremely fortunate. you raise them right. the point that you make about wanting to write who they were, biracial, and the school saying no, that is a huge problem. you know, they say no, no, we will get all these benefits. we don't want to live in that kind of country.

we don't want to live in that type of country. i don't, and i don't know anybody, really, not anyone that i respect, who says to me, no, i do want things that i don't deserve because of my actions and my hard work, just merely because of a trait i had nothing to do with that i was born with. who really in the soles of their own bedroom believes that? thank you very much for your call. thank you very much for sharing your experience, which is very revealing. host: the latest executive order from the president targets transgender military members of the pentagon, saying that the order calls for the pentagon to update policies on medical or -- medical standards, stating that transgender people live in conflict with a disciplined and honorable lifestyle. guest: that was yesterday? i didn't take a look at that. it's not an area i don't -- i

look at. since i haven't read it, i wouldn't want to comment. i do -- i am against race -- sorry, sex-based preferential treatment or preferential treatment that is based on racial or sexual preferences, i'm against that. i haven't read that order. host: to an extent, if they are the best people for the job serving in the military, but they happen to be transgender, why not give them the opportunity? it's against transgender people, calls for the pentagon to reconsider transgender people as a part of the military. guest: i haven't spent time thinking about it. host: naomi, maryland, independent line, hello. caller: i don't hear anyone talking about donald trump's father, fred, who was renting apartments in the 50's and 60's and even after that, in queens, and if a black family came to

apply, even if they were qualified, they would put a c next to the name, immediately disqualifying them from being rented to, from having an apartment. donald trump's father did this for years and got away with it. and nothing happened to him and no one said anything about him. this was actually replicated throughout the country in different ways. we are seeing, now, that this was happening and you had better believe that he taught this lesson to his son. that there are certain people you just don't allow them to get certain things. if dei was around in those days, perhaps they would have gotten some fair treatment. i would like to know what your guest says about that. host: naomi, maryland. guest: thank you for your question. a fundamental principle of this country, not just this country, of any democracy, is that you are judged by your own actions.

i delve into genealogy a lot. it's one of my hobbies. thank god i'm not judged by the actions of some of my ancestors. that is true for every family tree that there is. you are talking about -- i don't know if what you're saying is true, but you're talking about his father, not the president. you are saying that his father must have taught this. i don't know that he did, to his son. i don't know that. you don't know that. let's go back. let's go back to the principal, the fundamental principle to democracy, you are judged by your own actions and held accountable for your own actions in -- and -- and the things you say. not for something in ancestor has said or done. host: there's a story today about costco rejecting calls to eliminate dei programs. how does that filter to public companies? guest: how long do you have, pedro? 19 attorneys general have

already written to costco saying that they had better make sure, the costco board had better make sure that they are not implementing anything illegal. again, as i said, preferential treatment quotas are illegal. not because of the trump actions, but because of statutes in the constitution. moreover, what we have seen in the last three years, really since the beginning of 2021, following this issue closely, especially the last 12 months, has been a stampede by the fortune 500 away from it. it's divisive. it doesn't work. studies show it doesn't work. you have a long list. ford, meta, boeing, mcdonald's, target, saying we won't do this stuff anymore. why? because they are responsible to their customers, shareholders, and the bottom line.

americans don't like this. they walked -- no, they ran away from it over the last 12 months. we had a few holdouts. obviously the biggest holdout was the federal government under biden and harris. now that is gone. so, now we have read outs in the academies and some of the sports leagues. i watch a lot of football, especially recently you see the football players with the helmet, reject hate, embrace love. that is apparently the commissioner of the nfl has bought into the lie that we are a hateful and oppressive country where we have white supremacy as the operating principal and we have systemic racism and that we have hate as a fundamental bedrock value of this country. so, i think the nfl is a weathervane. i expect they will run away from it now, to.

no, the corporate world has abandoned this with alacrity. costco is the rare exception. host: this is larry from florida. democratic line, mike gonzales. caller: good morning, gentlemen. good to be on your program this morning. two questions for the person on. i want to know, does he know what dei means? and does he know what the word woke means? i'm talking about the definition as far as what it means as far as the black community is concerned and not as far as what it means for the white community. i will take my question off-line. y'all have a wonderful day. guest: thank you for your call. i know that woke is a term that comes from african-americans. my concern with woke is not how it is defined in that way, but how it has been defined by the

woke themselves. that is this idea that we must all be very awake to the fact that all of life must be looked at through the lens of an epic struggle between the oppressed in the oppressor. that comes straight from the manifesto, by the way, the communist manifesto of 1848 by karl marx. i reject that notion. i rather embrace the gospel when it says we are no longer a slaveholder. that is what woke means. pei, as i said, is the opposite of what the words should mean and have traditionally meant. diversity means racial quotas, those are unconstitutional. equity means the functional opposite of inequality. inequality is the principle mentioned in the founding documents. equity is illegal. i'm not talking about equity as defined by the people who do

critical race theory, including kamala harris, who was always clear about what she meant by equity. biden was not a politician about these issues until the last years of his life. the last few years. again, inclusion, it's not about inclusion. if i wear a t-shirt that says anything about god or jesus to the smithsonian, the guards might throw me out. that's your inclusion. that's the inclusion i mean. that's why i'm opposed to ddi. that is with these things mean, larry. host: hakeem jeffries talked about legal challenges because of the use of executive orders. what you think about that? guest: they haven't happened yet, but obviously, i know we are a litigious country. some of them might end up in the courts. right now the president has acted with such alacrity, with

such strength in executive order after executive order in getting his cabinet passed. things have come so fast and have been so good, i think that what we are seeing is a liberal side that is paralyzed. they haven't reacted, yet, really in any way. they don't know what to do. they don't know how to react. so, but i expect that at some point in the near future they will wake up from their stupor and try to do something. host: republican line, christine, michigan, hello. caller: hello. i was just calling to say in the last few months, i have heard from people from the heritage foundation and the heritage foundation is against christianity. they are against true christianity. he is trying to put on

christians by them wearing a christian symbol or a shirt or something with jesus christ or god on it, when i see someone like that, i go up to them and i say -- i know that verse, it's one of my favorites, thank you for sharing jesus with the world , because we need true christians. this man, why can't hakeem jeffries be on there? host: i will stop, you can answer that, but i will keep her on because she wants to clarify, but go ahead. guest: i don't think i heard a question there. the heritage foundation has catholics like me, protestants, many, many jewish colleagues i work closely with. we believe that religion has a place in public life. we believe that democracy in

this country was made for moral people. but we don't adhere to a single religion. i'm not sure what the caller was saying about religion. host: this is rudy in georgia. democratic line. running short on time, go ahead and jump in with your comment. caller: our professor was a keynote speaker that was the architect of affirmative action for the nixon administration. he said that these corporations are hiring us because they do business with the government. not because they want you even if you are qualified. it's because the law won't allow them to discriminate. when i went to general motors there were 30 college graduates in my class that year from purdue, notre dame, michigan, ohio state. they had five afro-american students. we were all qualified, all highly educated, all successful.

affirmative action stopped general motors from excluding us. they didn't hire us because we were black. guest: i never heard that. if i heard correctly, that's awful if affirmative action stopped anybody from being hired because of their race. and of course, he did. is that what he said? host: that's what he implied. guest: yeah, that's illegal. host: as we wrap up, we have seen so much action on this front, where could the administration go next or have they done all they can on this issue? guest: no. these are executive orders and i'm happy about it, but it has to bethis is to be codified int. we need to go a step further. a lot of what happened. the first think trump did is get rid of biden's executive order which was the one that put