♪ host: good morning. as they come at the brewery for. what -- it is tuesday, february

4. thousands of usaid contractors have been laid off, employees put on leave, and programs shutdown around the world. also, the treasury department granted musk's team access to the federal payment system which handles trillions of payments and government miniatures -- trillions of dollars in government. we are taking your calls on elon musk's influence on government and doge actions. republicans, (202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-8000. independents, (202) 748-8002. we have a line set aside for federal employees. that number is (202) 748-8003. you can use that same line to text us. include your first name, city, state, and you can post your comments on social media. facebook.com/c-span and x

@cspanwj. welcome to today's "washington journal." we will start with this article from the usa today. it says musk puts employees at usaid on leave. foreign aid agency heads to the which appropriate trump administration moved swiftly monday to dismantle the usaid, putting hundreds of employees on leave and terminating contracts after tech billionaire elon musk said he was in the process of shutting down the agency that oversees foreign aid. musk claimed on social media early monday morning that he ran the extraordinary move by president donald trump and had his full backing. it raised immediate objections from democrats who said trump lacks the constitutional authority to eliminate usaid, which was established by congress as an independent agency in 1998. let's take a look at what secretary of state marco rubio said about closing usaid when he

was asked by reporters during his trip in central america yesterday. [video clip] >> my issue as i said is, yeah, there are things at usaid that we should continue to do and will continue to do. but everything they do has to be in alignment with the national interests and foreign policy of the united states. the attitude that usaid has adopted over the years is, no, we are independent of the national interests. we fund programs not respective if they are aligned or not aligned with the foreign policy. that is ridiculous. these are taxpayer dollars. every penny we spend on foreign aid needs to be aligned with the foreign policy of the united states. this is not about ending the programs that usaid does. there are things that it does that are good and there are things that it does that -- it is about the way it operates. they need to take direction from the state department. when you ask questions, when you

try to go in and find out what this program does, who is getting money, why is this getting funded, their attitude is we don't have to answer to you because we are independent, we answer to no one. that is not true and will no longer be the case. host: secretary of state marco rubio is now acting head of usaid. this is the hill. marco rubio taking over as acting head of usaid amid agency turmoil. and we are going to hear quickly before we take your calls from senator andy kim, who is a democrat of new jersey. he once worked at usaid, and he talked to reporters. here he is. [video clip] >> about 20 years ago when i first came to work for the federal government, i walked through these doors right behind me. i started off my career in public service at usaid. i just have to say how proud i was to be able to serve the country, how proud i was to be

able to work for usaid, to be part of the foreign policy of this country, and i can tell you it was really tough today walking through the same doors 20 something years later only to see it shut down to employees. all weekend long, i was getting calls and phone calls from people i worked with at usaid before, the people that are there now, people who have been disrespected by this administration that pushes them to decide, basically calls them criminals, and tells them not to show up to work. in fact, i went inside and tried to speak to the administrator. unfortunately was not able to meet with him. and i will continue to try today to meet with the acting administrator because i want to hear straight from him. is this the order that he gave? you have mysterious people within this new administration sending out emails across the entirety of usaid telling them

not to show up. i talked to the security guard. i talked to the security guard just in there. he said he has been given specific orders to prevent employees of usaid from entering the building today, and i just find that to be absolutely ridiculous. this is no way to govern. this is no way to treat public servants. this is no way for us to conduct our foreign policy as a country. i just had to show up today, see it with my own eyes, the chaos of this administration, and just their attacks on public servants in our country. host: that was new jersey senator andy kim, a democrat, outside of the usaid office building. in case you want to go to the website, usaid.gov, it has been taken off-line. this is what you get when you go to usaid.gov. it has been taken down. let's start with calls with matt in maryland. good morning.

caller: good morning. let's not sugarcoat what is going on. the richest man in the world has been given access to basically the united states main bank, the way that we pay people's social security, the way that we pay basically for everything. he has also been given the ability to take one of our most important assets for foreign diplomacy that keeps us out of war off-line. why? who knows. but he hasn't been given that access with -- but he has been given that access. with that access is information no one else has. he is a federal contractor. he has no security clearance. he could not get security clearance. and here we are. he has access to all of that information. given access to all of that information, our information that federal employees have tried to secure forever, to other people who don't have that

information. he is a federal contractor to us, but also he has contracts with china and i am sure many of our other foreign enemies. this is a coup, and we need to wake up and say this is not normal. even if you voted for donald trump, this is not normal. wake up, everyone. thank you. host: before you go, since you are a federal employee, can you tell us what is going on with you, your agency? what is happening? caller: i worked for the department of defense. it has never been more precarious and by over 20 years of working in the federal government. morality is terrible -- morale is terrible, which is the point. the emails we received from some janky server that teenagers working for elon musk put together to try to encourage all federal employees to quit. we are not going to quit.

we took an oath to the constitution. the constitution that donald trump does not believe in. and you have not seen anything because the federal workforce cares about america, cares about america, and does not care about vladimir putin or whoever the heck donald trump and elon musk care most about. host: have you been given that buyout option? caller: yes. we received it from what we thought was a phishing email as we found out sent from people who infiltrated the office of personnel management on behalf of elon musk. host: ok, but that is a real offer that you are going to have to decide on, right? caller: it is a real offer, but everyone that i have talked to has doubled down and said i care about america, i don't trust anyone involved. this is a trap.

as details have sprinkled out about this, no one that i know, certainly no one who works for me, or no one in my organization plans to take this because they don't trust anyone involved. and it does not seem legit. there are processes to do this kind of thing and they are not following it. host: got it, matt. here is ed in lawrenceville, georgia, republican. caller: good morning. i am glad i have the second caller because the first caller does not know what he is talking about. musk does not have any power at all. everything that he is doing, him and his investigators report back to president trump. and they decide if that is good or bad. if it is bad and taxpayer money is being used for illicit

purposes like giving condoms to the middle east, just all the things that go on, billions of dollars wasted all over the decades. president trump is putting an end to it. musk is doing this absolutely free. he is not getting paid to do this. he is doing this on his own time. this man wants to help america. that guy is in the defense department, that first caller? my god. host: i just wanted to ask you one you said he is not making any money, which he is not making a salary. the concept of his contracts with the federal government, how do you react to that? do you see that that could be a conflict of interest for elon musk? caller: not really. host: that he could make more money for his companies. caller: i think that his

contracts is a legitimate thing. and they were approved. and they were signed. it does not change anything. all he is doing is going after the waste, fraud, and abuse. host: all right. caller: he does not have the power to do anything. he has to report to the president. host: and this is cnn. elon musk is serving as a "special government employee." that is according to the white house. it says that he is officially serving under president trump as a special government employee. the designation means musk, who has been a force within the new trump administration, is not a volunteer but also not a full-time federal employee. according to a justice department summary, a special government employee is "anyone who works or is expected to work for the government for 130 days or less in a 365 day period."

musk is not being paid, a person familiar with his employment told cnn. musk has a top-secret security clearance that that official told cnn. he is the world's richest man and became an ardent supporter of trump during the campaign and has an office on the white house campus. here is jason in alabama, democrat. good morning, jason. caller: good morning. how are you doing? host: good. caller: i think we need to be real about why elon musk is there. elon musk is there because he gave a bunch of money to trump and bought twitter to other but everything trump is about -- to elevate everything trump is about. if elon does not have any power, why is he there? he is there because he gave money. he is there because he wants to do that she is on a mission to do what trump wants him to do. as far as not making money, he

gets access to all the data of all of us. that has been the whole fight with all of these government employees, giving him access. the buyout is a trick. right now, the government funding is on a continuing with solution ending in march. any government employee dumb enough to believe trump can buy them out when their funding ends in march is an idiot. not to mention the maximum amount of voluntary separation incentive that can be given for government employees is $25,000. so even if trump could pay them through september, he could not give them more than $25,000. i would imagine the majority of the people you start to get rid of make more than $25,000 in eight months. so all of this is the sycophantic right wing fever dream that the government is filled with demons. truth be told, they are regular

people doing their jobs to make sure things run well. and unfortunately, right wing voters don't want the government to run well. host: here is maurice in dunkirk, maryland, independent. good morning. caller: i just wanted to say, i mean, using terms like it is a coup, you don't get a choice in a coup. if they are giving you the choice of a buyout or to leave, they are not making you leave. why can't we -- the usaid was created in 1961 by an executive order. executive orders can be turned over. they are just basically putting on the brakes and stopping the crazy spending. you keep up the good stuff that it does, but you eliminate the bad stuff. people want to make it about elon. it is not about him. i mean, he is just doing his job. host: i just want to clarify something. yes, you are right, 1961, jfk did create it by executive

order, but it was in 1998 that congress established usaid as an independent agency. caller: i understand. but president trump as the executive has the right to do what he is doing to check to see what is going on. it is not totally eliminated yet, but it does help to be able to cut spending where you can, especially this wasteful spending. that is all. that is all i'm saying. people are just so emotional about it. when you have a choice, choice and coup do not go together. anyway, is a good conversation to have, so thank you very much. host: this is michael. good morning. caller: good morning. how is everything going? host: good. caller: well, the holidays were very tragic, but i will get right onto the topic this morning. i was talking about we had one tragic event after another. it just seems like the country needs some healing right now.

i just wanted to send a prayer out to everyone that is being affected by these terrible events that are happening with aviation and terrorism and things going on, school shootings once again. but once again, i would like to see bill gates get involved. i don't understand why we only have just one or two voices coming out of the business world. if we can put politics aside, and i am sure bill gates did not give money to the trump campaign or cpac or anything like that. i would just assume that is probably not the case, but if we can put that aside, give him money, not give him money, voting for someone, not voting for someone. he is our president. if he can just open invitation to bill gates, i think that

would cool a lot of heads on the left. host: so, michael, this is the michael that used to be in four oaks, north carolina, right? caller: yes, it is. host: you keep moving around. caller: no, only once. come on. host: you are in smithfield now. caller: yes. host: got it. let's go back to doge, elon musk. do you welcome the things you have seen him do so far in these first two weeks? caller: well, on a national basis, yes. i don't first caller, i am very concerned with what is going on with what he is saying. i hope things get better for him. i don't really know what to say about that. we are only being told so much and the results and things like that. i would really wish the topic could have been on tariffs this morning because there is a lot

of neat on tariffs. host: that is also going on. that is another big topic. you are right. so let's take a look at white house press secretary karoline leavitt. she was asked about whether musk or anyone with him had passed a background check. take a look. [video clip] >> elon musk is a special government employee? >> yes. i can confirm he is a special government employee. i can also confirm he has abided by all applicable federal laws. as for his security clearance, i am not sure, but i can check back with you. >> did he pass the background check? >> i don't know about the security clearance, but i can check. >> do you know about anybody on his team at usaid? >> i don't, but i can check on that for you. host: and now to amanda in north attleboro, massachusetts, democrat. good morning. caller: hi. how are you today? host: good.

caller: i am calling because i am concerned about how our constitution is written. we have three branches of government. we have the legislative, executive, and the judicial. all three are separate. and elon musk is getting his hands into something that the legislative branch should be taken care of -- taking care of. if there is probably spending, it has to be done in the legislative branch. the money he is holding onto his our taxpayer money. on top of that, he now has access to every american who has received federal money or paid into federal government, not only the social security numbers, but their bank accounts, and we don't even know if it is secure. i just want to tell republicans, those who voted for him and disagree with this, please go to

a website and put your zip code end and call your representative, your u.s. senators, representatives, and tell them this is not right. my personal information is no longer secure. host: all right, amanda. this is in hayward, wisconsin, independent rick is next. caller: thank you for taking my call. i fully support this doge effort. i think we have to start somewhere. i get it that i don't want to hurt anybody's feelings, democrat, republican, whatever. that first caller is awol if you ask me. don't we need to start somewhere? the executive order says department of government efficiency. that is why we have so many problems in the country, because we are inefficient.

i was for vivek also. unfortunately, he got put in the backseat or whatever and now wants to run for governor. he is a smart man. if he was a democrat, i would still think he is a smart man. i don't understand why we draw the line on what party you are from. i have called before, and i voted for obama in those days. and i voted for trump. i am independent. i don't think it is right that there is a democrat or republican, and a lot of times c-span spins this into racial issues. and that i think is wrong because there should be some effort to try to keep people from bringing race into these things because i don't care if you are black or white or native american or whatever. anyway, you guys do a great job, but i feel like i need to know. sometimes it is hard to know what subjects are coming up.

do you only take calls like once from each person in a 30 day period or can you call whatever you want? host: no, it is every 30 days just to give people a chance. caller: i have a hard time getting through sometimes. this goes back to vivek. anyway, go ahead and take your other calls. host: this is john in california, republican line. caller: good morning. everybody is all excited about elon musk. almost every president has had outside advisors that were friends or acquaintances or college roommates or in this case a guy who had done real well in the private sector. they used to call it the kitchen cabinet. so the man that said musk does not have any power is exactly right. he goes to trump, he tells trump what is going on. in this case, he said this is not just a bad apple. it is a bowl of worms. and what happens with this, number one, it goes to a lot of

countries that absolutely hate the united states. number two, it goes to a lot of despots and dictators and does not get to where it belongs. number three, and this is the big scandal about the foreign aid and whatnot. it goes to foreign governments and will come back in the form of political donations to our politicians. it needs to put under the auspices of the state department. and it needs to be overseen by the secretary of state, whether he is a democrat or republican. it does not need to be this little agency that will decide where these billions and billions of dollars go. we are $37 trillion in debt. we are not going to be able to tax the rich as the democrats keep preaching out of this. it will seek the country if we don't change it. there is a huge amount of waste.

the defense department guy that called, what about all of these g 12 level employees of the government making $150,000, $200,000 a year that were not going to work during the last four years since covid? is that kind of wasteful? i think it is. that is what elon musk has petitioned to try to clean up. he is going to check it out. he is going to check back with trump. as a guy from massachusetts, we got to start somewhere. we cannot continue. the guy from the defense department that said morale is very low, who has been running the country for the last four years if morale is so low? the federal government is bloated beyond belief. money goes where we don't know. we have to change that. it has to change. we will sink in this $37 trillion debt if we don't. yeah, a lot of people are not

going to like it. but i would rather do that than die under this to be $7 trillion in debt. host: got it, john. here is newsweek about usaid. this is the map. it shows where it spends the most money, and this is the map right here. you can take a look. if you would like, you can press on each one and see. it says the u.s. is by far the largest provider of you miniature in aid. billions of dollars in humanitarian, development, and security assistance in more than 100 countries. the u.s. spends less than 1% of its budget on foreign assistance, a smaller share overall than some other countries. and this is taylor in knoxville, tennessee, democrat. taylor, you are next. caller: yeah, hi. ok. so first, for any moderates or

conservatives, i suggest you invest in some earplugs because you are going to hear the weeping and wailing like you never heard from the left. all right, second, these people's gravy train with biscuit wheels have hopped the tracks. their livelihood is at stake. it happens in the private sector all the time, not so much in the federal government. they will have to go get jobs. frank zappa had a song that i suggest you give a listen to. it is a good one. elon musk and doge i think -- i am not super up-to-date on what he is doing. but if it is exploratory, great. and these people probably have a spacex t-shirt in the back of his closet because he was a darling of the left about five to 10 years ago. thank you. host: this is the washington post with this. it as trump preps order to dismantle education department. it says president trump is aiming an executive order aimed

at closing the education department and in the short term dismantling it from within. the draft order acknowledges only congress can shut down the department and instead directs the agency to begin to diminish itself. these, people that said that the work is underway -- these people it said that the work is underway already. employees on an minister to leave and pressuring staff to voluntarily quit. roughly 20 people with elon musk's department of government efficiency known as doge have been inside the education department looking to cut spending and staff. and it says at least some doge staffers have gained access to multiple sensitive internal systems, including a financial aid data set that contains the personal information for millions of students enrolled in the federal student aid program. that is at the washington post

if you would like to see the rest of that. this is mary, independent, in richland, washington. good morning. caller: good morning. what aggravates me so much is the people who call in and don't realize that everything -- that democracy has got away. the people that hold the purse is the congress. when elon musk got all of that information, that is all of your social security numbers, all your information on yourself, the people before you, your grandchildren. the only reason he got it was because he paid $390 million to get trump elected. there are other people in there that have given him -- how can i say it? information, this, and that.

but as the first person they did not like called, elon musk makes his cars in china. he has been to russia. and who knows where he goes? because he has his own private plane. he is the richest man in the world. and the other thing is i don't know where in the constitution are the legislature and any of the other papers. but i thought he had to be voted in, not just given permission. and then they fired the guys that would not give him, you know, access to our top security. so everybody that does not read or does not pay attention needs to pay attention. it has only been two weeks. and people are going broke. it is crazy.

you know, read that paper on 2025. that will scare the hell out of you. and he is doing what he said. host: this is project 2025. project 2025? caller: yeah. when trump says something, like he said he was going to be a dictator, i took him. you have to take him for what he says. that is the way i feel about it, and i think the congress and the senators and the people that love this country and my father and my husband and all of those who fought for this country, i think it is a doggone shame and i don't want to lose my democracy. and i don't want to get all the people in the world mad at us. we have never taken countries from other people like greenland and other stuff. host: let's hear from president

trump. he was asked about the legality of unilaterally shutting down an independent agency of the government. here is what he said. [video clip] >> does it take an act of congress to do only with usaid? >> i don't know. i don't think so, not when it comes to fraud. if there is fraud. these people are lunatics. if it comes to fraud, you would not have an act of congress, and i am not sure you would anyway. but we just want to do the right thing. it is something that should have been done a long time ago. went crazy during the biden administration. they went totally crazy, what they were doing, and the money they were given to people that should not be getting it and to agencies and others that should not be getting it. it was a shame. tremendous fraud. but we will be doing a report. we will be giving you that report at the appropriate time. i love the concept of it. yeah. i love the concept. but they turned out to be

radical left lunatics. and the concept of it is good. it is all about the people. host: back to the phones now. to mark, a democrat in westwood, new jersey, good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for c-span. i just want to give people a heads up because they voted for trump because prices are so high. well, they are about to get a lot higher, folks.these tariffs are a ridiculous idea. giving and oligarch -- an oligarch like elon musk access to all of our information, access to the treasury department, that just seems insane to me. you don't do things like that. but this is what people voted for. they are going to have a very rude awakening because they never want to cut the things that need to be cut like the ridiculous waste of the bloated pentagon. they always want to cut

education and medicaid and food stamps and things that help people. it is just a crying shame that americans, you know, voted for a crooked businessman, and now he has all of his other crooked businessman friends in there to go ahead and remake this country into their kind of utopia where they can do anything they want. it is a fact that elon musk and jeff bezos have hundreds of lawsuits against them because they hurt their employees, won't let them organize, and that is all going to go away. and that is what it is all about. they bought access. our government has been for sale to the highest bidder for a long time. it is now in overdrive. host: here is aaron in new mexico, republican. good morning. caller: hail trump. i think it is wonderful what must and trump are doing for our

company as a gen x'er to see the government operate in full transparency in the face of the american people, the usa. it is great. i don't think we are doing enough. they are not doing enough. they need to address these school shootings. i think these american parents are depraved for sending their kids to school where they have to go under a desk. school shootings in america. hail trump, america. host: there was some conversation about elon musk's level of security clearance. and this is what is in the guardian. this is from december of last year. it says that elon musk will not receive the highest level of government security clearance. the spacex head has been advised to not seek the

same top-secret clearance over his drug use and contracts with foreign nationals. it's as it is unlikely to receive government security if he so applied, even as his spacex lunch company blast military and spy agency payloads into orbit. he is the first person to exceed $400 billion in self-made personal wealth. we will find more information about that as far as what he currently holds as a security clearance, if it is top-secret or not. and we will talk to anthony in florida, independent line. caller: good morning. thanks for taking my call. i am a younger guy. i am an independent with some very strong left-leaning tendencies when it comes to american forest projection and other international policy. but i am pretty fiscally and socially conservative. so i often don't really like

where the national competition goes. around the doge question and shutting down usaid, i really did not know what this agency did. it has taken a long time for me to read and research a bit so i understand a little bit more. one bit of context i have found that has helped me kind of understand what is going on here and evaluate with a bit of a cooler head was that usaid was part of american power projection overseas. they have been involved in attempts to destabilize the cuban government. there was some very unsavory things done with the sterilization of indigenous folk in peru. at the same time, that type of aid went out to completely legitimate causes, causes that i think are worthwhile. for folks who are a little bit worried about neoimperialism, i

wonder why there is so much outcry over this agency being reined in a bit. at the same time, i understand because i think that the shutting down of usaid kind of has an overlap with the tariffs where we kind of see a global trade order starting to become more regionalized and more focused on trade protectionism. we are entering another season of that. in america, as many listeners know, has had a long history of trade protectionism, particularly in the early 1900s, and tariffs can work in the long run. and they can also make things really tough in the short run. i would encourage folks to check out and economics explained youtube video where "can tariffs actually work?" is the title. it was informative to be and helps me think about these issues in a way that, i don't know -- everyone is freaked out right now, and i get that.

but now is the time to recommit to democracy and becoming informed citizens as best we can. that is me trying to see the good in things. i did not vote for trump. i dislike him but i am try to see the good he could be doing instead of demonizing him. thanks for taking my call. host: could you tell us how old you are? you said you are young. caller: i just turned 30. not as young as i used to be. host: all right. some information for you on usaid. as far as the mission, it leads international humanitarian and development arm of the u.s. government. established in 1961. the workforce totals more than 10,000 with approximately two thirds of that workforce serving overseas. in 2023, usaid provided assistance to approximately 130 countries. that is according to the congressional research service. regarding the budget of usaid, so this would be fiscal yea

2023, $40 billion in combined appropriations, represting more than one third of the funds provided in the fiscal 2023 department of state, foren operations, and related programs appropriation, and international food aid provided in the agriculture appropriation. this is kathleen in georgetown, delaware, democrat. caller: good morning mimi and buddy out there. i have concerned. i don't know if everybody happened to see this but there was a robbery and at the end but it was not certain elon musk n gave th -- elon musk gave the nazi salute. i saw that. there was a rally in germany and he was up on the stage jumping

up and down at a neo-nazi celebration or whatever. it makes me wonder, do we have a nazi in the white house with access to everybody in the country's financial information, everything about us? i don't think there has ever been a president who took the authority to go and gather all of this kind of information on the citizens of this country. like i said, elon musk may have given trump $300 million or whatever and then all of a sudden they were buddy, buddy. so elon musk interjects himself into the white house, makes a department specifically for him. it is like, what is this? ed trump is like -- and trump is

like his buddy, buddy. money, money, money, how to spend it, how to make it. like i said, he is in front of the neo-nazis jumping up and down real happy about it. he did give the nazi salute at the rally here. we might have a nazi in the white house gathering up all the information he can on every citizen in this country. i don't know if anybody else saw that. a lot of people love him. i am a little bit leery of what is going on. thank you. host: i would just remind people that we do have a line set aside for federal employees. that is (202) 748-8003. if you work for usaid or you are a contractor for usaid especially, give us a call. we would like to hear your impressions of what is going on. this is senator elizabeth warren, a democrat of massachusetts.

wrote a letter to secretary bessent. here is a portion of what she wrote to him about what is happening at the treasury department. she said this. e musk team's unprecedented demand for total access to the system reportedly caused serious concern at the department particularly given that the system has historically been closy held because it holds iormation on americans and sends out virtually every federal payment, including payments that are critical for the economy and national security. controlling the system could allow the trump administration to "unilaterally" and illegally cut up payments r millions of americancome opening at risk the financial security of families andusinesses based on political favoritism or the whims of mr. musk and those on his team who have worked their way inside. that is senator elizabeth warren writing to treasury secretary

bessent. we would love to hear your thoughts on that and the influence of elon musk, of doge. do you support it? david in minnesota, republican, what do you think? caller: well, i think we have to sit back and realize what is going on. when you sit down and think on this, on this usaid, it is that they are looking to see because like they say there is money being spent that was done for the wrong purpose, and this has been going on for years. and the biggest thing is that first thing out of the left was, oh, he is going to affect social security and he is going to affect this. social security has nothing to do with usaid. so i don't know where they come

up -- there is too much hatred in this country to the left and right. how can we actually unite people to get into the facts of how much money is being wasted or spent for things we should not even be spending it on? and yes, we have our checks and balances in government. but it is like the tariffs to canada and mexico. already, canada and mexico backed off. mexico has to control their border coming in. why should these people be allowed to come into mexico to go to the united states? they could stop the flow there. and canada, the same thing.

people can fly to canada and then they come across our border in the united states. so the tariff part of it is these countries can control a lot for the united states to prevent this. host: all right, david. here is joe in baltimore, independent. good morning. caller: good morning. it is interesting you mentioned elizabeth warren because i wanted to ask since everyone is listening, has this ever happened to you? you file your taxes. you go around trying to figure out what to sign up for. you are going on turbotax, all the websites. it is frustrating have to pay for it. and you say to yourself, why do i have to figure out how much i owe the irs? they are going to get mad if i don't pay an amount. they already know how much i

have to pay. why don't they just tell me how much i have to pay? so, a couple years ago, the irs started doing something they call direct file, which is a system that will just tell you how much you have to pay so you don't have to go use turbotax and pay additional money to file your taxes. elon musk and his doge boys have gone in and shut down direct file. what i want to know is, what about this is governmental efficiency? we had an agency that was using its data and connecting that data to people directly so that they can save money. and now that is shut down. they talk about how they are getting rid of trans comic books

in ecuador or something. but it is like social issues while they are doing things of economic significance that they are hiding. turbotax, intuit gave $1 million to trump's campaign so all i am seeing is patronage for corporate welfare queens. host: this is a federal employee in alexandria, virginia. mike, good morning. caller: hey, good morning. i am flabbergasted, man. this whole thing that elon musk is doing right now is just on its face so illegal. and just as a fed, i am trained to do the right things because we took an oath. where is his oath? this guy came in. he is a special government

employee with a next capacity of 130 days to do all the damage he can do before he has to leave. but on what legal authority is he doing all of this? we are getting harassing emails from an email address we all thought was spam. there is no signature block so he was violating digital and any communication laws we have right now. he's running around unchecked, and i don't hear a freaking thing from my elected officials. i don't hear anything other than, well, guys, we are just going to evaluate. you have heads of agency dictating payment policy and saying congress will -- how can you say that? how can you honestly look people in the face? this is their livelihood. how can you just overtly lie to people like this? that is my question. go ahead. i'm sorry. host: i was going to ask, what do those email say? you said you were getting harassing emails. caller: the fork in the road.

the first one we got was replying to this emailed by hitting yes and we thought it was spam. we sent it to our cybersecurity folks. i did not know what was going on. we get one that says, hey, guys, you should take a vacation. you are authorized to work a second job. this is telling us to break the law. it is and you can go out and open a second business, have a second job -- have another job. we will pay you through september. because this guys track record at twitter where he stiffed people will hold up. i cannot wait for the reckoning. i cannot wait for the lawsuits and leading this guy out in handcuffs, honestly. i am flabbergasted. i am beyond angry. and i don't speak for all the federal employees here. i really don't. i speak for me. i can tell you right now the sentiment is we are angry. we are so upset this is happening. host: can you tell us what agency you are at? caller: i am in a dod entity.

i work in d.c. host: let me ask you this. you can just answer for yourself, but what do you think would be the impact if a lot of people took the package in your agency, in your office? would the mission change? or would it just be a huge savings in taxes for the american people? caller: mancaller:, i wish i could say it would be a huge savings but the line being put out right now is if anybody takes that resignation, their position will go away. so if you have somebody that is managing a program that has a lot of impact on something and they go away, that billet gets absorbed back into the system. they may or may not backfill it. here is the other thing to think about. as people decide if they want to take this resignation live or not, whenever they leave, i

don't think everybody understands what the federal hiring process is like. so to backfill somebody who is managing, let's say, something that is infrastructure related, these are the guys in charge of safety or infrastructure projects around the country or whatnot, and he leaves. they have somebody that is maybe qualified to get in there but they have to backfill the position as soon as they can because otherwise it will be this unmanned thing. so no, the impact is you will have a diminished workforce and it will be backfilled with a bunch of yes-men that may or may not be qualified. it is just so frustrating. i cannot see. here is one more thing, and i'm sorry. i am a conservative. and i cannot wait to vote blue. i really can't. because just the overreach that this is happening. yeah. host: all right, mike. keep us updated.

call us back in like 30 days and let us know what is happening, ok? caller: ok. host: donna in missouri, republican. morning. caller: good morning, everyone. i am on the older side, so i witnessed pretty much in the way of different political parties over the years. you know, i have been where i have lived paycheck-to-paycheck and i have lived where i have been a little more on the affluent side. but you know, most people have to realize the government is on a budget. just like every one of us. unless people are extremely wealthy and they don't have to worry about budgets. but the majority of the people have to worry about budgets. so, why shouldn't our government? i don't understand how people are getting upset because the new administration wants to get rid of spending that does not help the american people.

this usaid organization, too much waste. all doge is trying to do is go in and expose the areas that the government is abusing our tax dollars. i don't understand why americans -- i don't care your party affiliation. i don't understand have to get rid of the excess spending. the american people are very bighearted, and we contribute a lot to charity when we can afford it, so if we can get our economy back to tiptop shape, the american people have a big heart, and they will go out and fund the organizations that they feel will help people that are not as privileged as americans. so, again, if you don't have to live on a budget, well, good for you.

but the majority of us people do have to live on budgets. so please keep that in mind. and the gentleman that works for the government or possibly laid off now, i feel really bad for him. i do. nobody likes to lose their job. again, if you ever worked in corporate america, which i did not prefer to. i like small businesses. i did accounting. but if you ever worked for corporate america and a new ceo comes in, what are they going to do? they are going to put people in that they trust, that they know, that they also know can do the job. so, again, they are just coming in, they are putting in the people that they trust to do the job for them. host: got it. let's take a look at what president trump said when he was asked about elon musk and his team getting access to the treasury department payment system from yesterday. [video clip] >> why is it important for elon

musk to have access to the payment system? >> well, he has access only to letting people go that he thinks are no good if we agree with him, and it is only if we agree with him. he is a very talented guy from the state point of management -- the standpoint of management and costs. we put him in charge of seeing what he can do with certain groups and certain numbers. some of the numbers are horrible what he has found. 100, think of it, $100 million on condoms to hamas. condoms to hamas. and many other things that are frankly even more ridiculous. they are finding tremendous waste. really, waste more than anything else i think you could probably save -- more than anything else. i think you could probably say fraud and abuse added to it. but bad things, bad spending.

you have been writing about some of it frankly and some of the things they have been doing is just terrible. elon can't do and won't do anything without our approval. and we will give him the approval where appropriate. we are appropriate, we won't. he reports in. it is something he feels very strongly about, and i am impressed because he is obviously running -- if there is a conflict about it we will not let him use it. he has a team of talented people. we are try to shrink government and he could probably shrink it as well as anybody else if not better. where we think there is a conflict or a problem, we will not let him go near it. host: the white house has mentioned that usaid sent $50 million for condoms in gaza. the washington post fact checker has looked into that claim and says there is no evidence for

that claim. it says that figure would rain one point $5 billion of condoms on an area only double the size of the district of columbia. it says last year the state department launched a five-year, $50 million program to improve health care in gaza. but the contractor said it was not supplying condoms. you can read that at the washington post. here is connie in tacoma, washington, a democrat. hi, connie. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. the reason i am calling is i am kind of curious on what usaid costs us versus what our military is costing us. because i look at our efforts with usaid as soft power versus our military power is hard power. and i think it is important to provide goods and services to the world and supplies to these

developing countries. i think it is in our best interest for national security for on down the line. and i am wondering, all of these people that want to hamper our efforts in that way -- i am a christian. i am wondering, where are our values? i look at this as we are a wealthy nation. i pay taxes. i work full-time. i am more than happy to help the less fortunate people around the world. that is what my values, my christian values dictate. i think, what would jesus do? that is exactly what he would have me do. i don't understand where we are hurting ourselves. that we are hurting ourselves in our long-term security interests and our own personal values. i look at this administration trying to gu uncle samt.

and it breaks my heart. he sows hate, fear, and division. that is all i see. i wish he could see the positive power that he has in the world and use that effectively. that is really all i have to say. if you give me the numbers on the military versus usaid, that would be great. host: usaid department of defense, i don't have it offhand but i want to say it is 800 to $900 billion range. don't quote me on that, we will find that for you. this is kristen illinois to send us a text. muska's a billionaire private citizen with his own agenda and with blatant conflict of interest. considering the multibillion-dollar relationship between spacex and the u.s. government. he was not feted, heas