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and online on c-span.org. a press conference held on the trump administration's second term and expected to cover executive actions on tariffs, the border and government agencies. host: welcome to today's "washington journal." the article on the page is musk puts employees on usaid on leave. foreign aid agency heads to, quote, the wood chipper. puttingn leave and terminating contracts after tech billionaire elon musk said he was in the process of shutting down the agency that oversees foreign aid. musk claimed on social media early monday morning that he ran the extraordinary move by president donald trump and had his full backing. it raised immediate objections from democrats who said trump

lacks the constitutional authority to eliminate usaid, which was established by congress as an independent agency in 1998. let's take a look at what secretary of state marco rubio said about closing usaid when he was asked by reporters during his trip in central america yesterday. [video clip] >> my issue as i said is, yeah, there are things at usaid that we should continue to do and will continue to do. but everything they do has to be in alignment with the national interests and foreign policy of the united states. the attitude that usaid has adopted over the years is, no, we are independent of the national interests. we fund programs not respective if they are aligned or not aligned with the foreign policy. that is ridiculous. these are taxpayer dollars. every penny we spend on foreign aid needs to be aligned with the foreign policy of the united states.

this is not about ending the programs that usaid does. there are things that it does that are good and there are things that it does that -- it is about the way it operates. they need to take direction from the state department. when you ask questions, when you try to go in and find out what this program does, who is getting money, why is this getting funded, their attitude is we don't have to answer to you because we are independent, we answer to no one. that is not true and will no longer be the case. host: secretary of state marco rubio is now acting head of usaid. this is the hill. marco rubio taking over as acting head of usaid amid agency turmoil. and we are going to hear quickly before we take your calls from senator andy kim, who is a democrat of new jersey. he once worked at usaid, and he talked to reporters. here he is. [video clip] >> about 20 years ago when i

first came to work for the federal government, i walked through these doors right behind me. i started off my career in public service at usaid. i just have to say how proud i was to be able to serve the country, how proud i was to be able to work for usaid, to be part of the foreign policy of this country, and i can tell you it was really tough today walking through the same doors 20 something years later only to see it shut down to employees. all weekend long, i was getting calls and phone calls from people i worked with at usaid before, the people that are there now, people who have been disrespected by this administration that pushes them to decide, basically calls them criminals, and tells them not to show up to work. in fact, i went inside and tried to speak to the administrator.

unfortunately was not able to meet with him. and i will continue to try today to meet with the acting administrator because i want to hear straight from him. is this the order that he gave? you have mysterious people within this new administration sending out emails across the entirety of usaid telling them not to show up. i talked to the security guard. i talked to the security guard just in there. he said he has been given specific orders to prevent employees of usaid from entering the building today, and i just find that to be absolutely ridiculous. this is no way to govern. this is no way to treat public servants. this is no way for us to conduct our foreign policy as a country. i just had to show up today, see it with my own eyes, the chaos of this administration, and just their attacks on public servants in our country. host: that was new jersey senator andy kim, a democrat, outside of the usaid office building.

in case you want to go to the website, usaid.gov, it has been taken off-line. this is what you get when you go to usaid.gov. it has been taken down. let's start with calls with matt in maryland. good morning. caller: good morning. let's not sugarcoat what is going on. the richest man in the world has been given access to basically the united states main bank, the way that we pay people's social security, the way that we pay basically for everything. he has also been given the ability to take one of our most important assets for foreign diplomacy that keeps us out of war off-line. why? who knows. but he hasn't been given that access with -- but he has been given that access. with that access is information no one else has.

he is a federal contractor. he has no security clearance. he could not get security clearance. and here we are. he has access to all of that information. given access to all of that information, our information that federal employees have tried to secure forever, to other people who don't have that information. he is a federal contractor to us, but also he has contracts with china and i am sure many of our other foreign enemies. this is a coup, and we need to wake up and say this is not normal. even if you voted for donald trump, this is not normal. wake up, everyone. thank you. host: before you go, since you are a federal employee, can you tell us what is going on with you, your agency? what is happening? caller: i worked for the department of defense. it has never been more precarious and by over 20 years of working in the federal government. morality is terrible -- morale

is terrible, which is the point. the emails we received from some janky server that teenagers working for elon musk put together to try to encourage all federal employees to quit. we are not going to quit. we took an oath to the constitution. the constitution that donald trump does not believe in. and you have not seen anything because the federal workforce cares about america, cares about america, and does not care about vladimir putin or whoever the heck donald trump and elon musk care most about. host: have you been given that buyout option? caller: yes. we received it from what we thought was a phishing email as we found out sent from people who infiltrated the office of personnel management on behalf of elon musk. host: ok, but that is a real offer that you are going to have to decide on, right?

caller: it is a real offer, but everyone that i have talked to has doubled down and said i care about america, i don't trust anyone involved. this is a trap. as details have sprinkled out about this, no one that i know, certainly no one who works for me, or no one in my organization plans to take this because they don't trust anyone involved. and it does not seem legit. there are processes to do this kind of thing and they are not following it. host: got it, matt. here is ed in lawrenceville, georgia, republican. caller: good morning. i am glad i have the second caller because the first caller does not know what he is talking about. musk does not have any power at all. everything that he is doing, him

and his investigators report back to president trump. and they decide if that is good or bad. if it is bad and taxpayer money is being used for illicit purposes like giving condoms to the middle east, just all the things that go on, billions of dollars wasted all over the decades. president trump is putting an end to it. musk is doing this absolutely free. he is not getting paid to do this. he is doing this on his own time. this man wants to help america. that guy is in the defense department, that first caller? my god. host: i just wanted to ask you one you said he is not making any money, which he is not making a salary.

the concept of his contracts with the federal government, how do you react to that? do you see that that could be a conflict of interest for elon musk? caller: not really. host: that he could make more money for his companies. caller: i think that his contracts is a legitimate thing. and they were approved. and they were signed. it does not change anything. all he is doing is going after the waste, fraud, and abuse. host: all right. caller: he does not have the power to do anything. he has to report to the president. host: and this is cnn. elon musk is serving as a "special government employee." that is according to the white house. it says that he is officially serving under president trump as a special government employee. the designation means musk, who has been a force within the new trump administration, is not a

volunteer but also not a full-time federal employee. according to a justice department summary, a special government employee is "anyone who works or is expected to work for the government for 130 days or less in a 365 day period." musk is not being paid, a person familiar with his employment told cnn. musk has a top-secret security clearance that that official told cnn. he is the world's richest man and became an ardent supporter of trump during the campaign and has an office on the white house campus. here is jason in alabama, democrat. good morning, jason. caller: good morning. how are you doing? host: good. caller: i think we need to be real about why elon musk is there. elon musk is there because he gave a bunch of money to trump and bought twitter to other but everything trump is about -- to

elevate everything trump is about. if elon does not have any power, why is he there? he is there because he gave money. he is there because he wants to do that she is on a mission to do what trump wants him to do. as far as not making money, he gets access to all the data of all of us. that has been the whole fight with all of these government employees, giving him access. the buyout is a trick. right now, the government funding is on a continuing with solution ending in march. any government employee dumb enough to believe trump can buy them out when their funding ends in march is an idiot. not to mention the maximum amount of voluntary separation incentive that can be given for government employees is $25,000. so even if trump could pay them through september, he could not give them more than $25,000. i would imagine the majority of

the people you start to get rid of make more than $25,000 in eight months. so all of this is the sycophantic right wing fever dream that the government is filled with demons. truth be told, they are regular people doing their jobs to make sure things run well. and unfortunately, right wing voters don't want the government to run well. host: here is maurice in dunkirk, maryland, independent. good morning. caller: i just wanted to say, i mean, using terms like it is a coup, you don't get a choice in a coup. if they are giving you the choice of a buyout or to leave, they are not making you leave. why can't we -- the usaid was created in 1961 by an executive order. executive orders can be turned over. they are just basically putting on the brakes and stopping the crazy spending. you keep up the good stuff that

it does, but you eliminate the bad stuff. people want to make it about elon. it is not about him. i mean, he is just doing his job. host: i just want to clarify something. yes, you are right, 1961, jfk did create it by executive order, but it was in 1998 that congress established usaid as an independent agency. caller: i understand. but president trump as the executive has the right to do what he is doing to check to see what is going on. it is not totally eliminated yet, but it does help to be able to cut spending where you can, especially this wasteful spending. that is all. that is all i'm saying. people are just so emotional about it. when you have a choice, choice and coup do not go together. anyway, is a good conversation to have, so thank you very much. host: this is michael. good morning. caller: good morning. how is everything going? host: good. caller: well, the holidays were

and if we could just put that aside, giving money, not giving money, voting for someone, not voting for someone, he's our president. and if he could just open the invitation to bill gates, i think that would cool a lot of heads on the left. hannah: this is host: this is bill in smith field now? caller: yes. host: let's go back to doge and elon musk, do you welcome what you've seen him do so far in these first two weeks? caller: on a national basis, yes. the first caller, i'm very concerned what's going on, what he's saying. i hope things will get better for him and, you know, i don't

really know what to say about that. we're only being told but so much and the results and things like that. and i would have really wished the topic could have been on tariffs this morning because there's a lot of heat on tariffs. host: that's also going on. that's another big topic. let's look at white house secretary caroline leavitt and asked whether music or anyone working with him had passed a background check. reporter: had elon musk is a special employee, what kind of security clearance does he have? karoline: he is a government employee and abided by all aapplicable laws and far as his security clearance, i will check back. reporter: did he pass a security clearance? karoline: i don't know, i'll check.

reporter: do you know whether anyone on his team have security clearances? karoline: i don't but i can check that for you. host: now toe amanda from massachusetts, democrat. caller: how are you today? host: good. caller: i'm calling today because i'm concerned about how our constitution is written and how our government is supposed to be run, our federal government. we have three branches of government, the legislative, executive and judicial. all three are separate. and elon musk is getting his hands into something the legislative branch should be taking care of. if there was a problem with spending, it has to be done in the legislative branch. the money that he's holding on to is the money that is taxpayer money. on top of that, he now has access to every american who has

received federal money or paid into the federal government, with all the social security numbers and bank accounts and we don't even know if it's secure. i just want to tell republicans, for those who voted for him and disagree with this, please go t- [inaudible] put your zip code in and call your representatives and tell them this is not right. my personal information is no longer secure. host: all right, amanda, and this is in heyward, wisconsin, independent line. rick, you're next. caller: hi, good morning. thanks for taking my call. i fully support this doge effort. i think we have to start somewhere. i don't want to hurt anyone's

feelings, democrat, republican, whatever. the first caller was awol, if you ask me. don't we need to start somewhere? exactly what it says, department of government efficiency. that's why we have so many problems in the country because we're inefficient. i was for vivek, also, and unfortunately he got put in the back seat or something and now wants to run for governor, whatever. he's a very smart man. you know, i don't care, if he were a democrat, i'd still think he was a very smart man. i just don't understand why we draw the line on what party you're from. i've called before and i voted for obama back in those days and i voted for trump. you know, i'm independent. i don't think that it's right that there's a democrat and republican and a lot of times c-span, turns it into racial issues and that i think is wrong because there should be some effort to try to keep people from bringing race into these

things because i don't care if you're black or white or native american or whatever. anyway, you guys do a great job but i feel like i need to know, sometimes it's hard to know what subjects are coming up. do you only take calls once from each person in a 30-day period or can you call whenever you want? host: no, it's every 30 days to give everybody a chance. caller: i've had a hard time getting through and this goes back to when vivek -- go ahead, take your other calls and have a great day. host: john in california, republican line. good morning, john. caller: good morning. everybody's all excited about elon musk, and every president had friends or advisers or college roommates or in this case a guy that's done real well in the private sector, they used to call to the kitchen cabinet. but the man that said musk

doesn't have any power is exactly right. he goes to trump, he tells trump what is going on. in this case he said this isn't just a bad apple, it's a bowl of worms. and what happens with this aid, number one, it goes to a lot of countries that absolutely hate the united states. number two, it goes to a lot of despots and dictators and doesn't get to where it belongs. number three, and this is the big scandal about this foreign aid and whatnot is it goes to governments and it will come back in the form of political donations to our politicians. it needs to be put under the auspices of the state department, and it needs to be overseen by the secretary of state, whether he's a democrat or republican. it doesn't need to be this little agency that's going to decide where these billions and billions of dollars go. we are $37 trillion in debt.

we are not going to be able to tax the rich, as the democrats keep preaching, out of this. it's going to sink the country if we don't change it. there's a huge amount of waste. the defense department guy that called, what about all these g-12 level employees of the government making $100,000, $200,000 a year that weren't even going to work in the last four years since covid? is that kind of wasteful? i think it is. and that's what elon musk has petitioned to try to clean up. he's going to check it out and check back with trump. and as the guy from massachusetts said, we've got to start somewhere. we cannot continue. the guy from the defense department that said oh, morale is very low, well, who has been running the country the last four years if morale is so low?

the federal government is bloated beyond belief. money goes where we don't know and we've got to change that. it's got to change. we will sink in this $37 trillion debt if we don't. yeah, a lot of people aren't going to like it but that's just the -- i'd rather do that than die under this $37 trillion in debt. host: got it, john. here's "newsweek" about usaid. this is the map and shows where it spends the most money. this is the map here. take a look. you can press on each one and see. the u.s. is by far the largest provider of humanitarian aid. usaid administers millions of dollars in more than 100 countries. the u.s. spends less than 1% of its budget on foreign

assistance. a smaller share overall than some other countries. and this is taylor in knoxville, tennessee, democrat. taylor, you're next. caller: yeah, hi. ok. so first for any moderates or conservatives, i suggest you invest in some earplugs because you're going hear the weeping and wailing like you've never heard from the left. and second, these people's gravy train with biscuit wheels has hopped the track. their livelihoods are at stake, it happens in the private sector all the time, not so much in the federal government. they're going to have to get jobs. frank zappa had a thong called wind up electric gas station. it's a good one. elon musk and doge i think -- i'm not superup to date on what he's doing but if it's exploratory, great. and these people probably have a

space x insert in their closet because he was a darling of the left 5-10 years ago. thank you. host: this is the "washington post" with this. it says, trump preps order to dismantle education department. president trump is preparing an executive order aimed at eventually closing the education department. and in the short term dismantling it within according to the three people briefed on its content. the draft order acknowledges only congress can shut down the department and instead, the agency has begun to diminish itself. these people said that work is underway already. the new administration has been trying to reduce the work force by putting scores of employees on administrative leave and pressuring staff to voluntarily quit. roughly 20 people with elon musk's department of government efficiency known as doge have been working inside the education department, looking to cut spending and staff and it says at least some doge staffers

have gained access to multiple sensitive internal systems, including a financial aid data set that contains the personal information for millions of students enrolled in the federal student aid program. in the "washington post." and this is mary, independent from richland, washington. good morning. caller: good morning, amy. what aggravates me so much is the people will call in and don't realize that everything -- the democracy is going away. the people that hold the purse is the congress. when elon musk got all the information, all of your social security numbers, all of your information on your cell, the people before you, your grandchildren, and the only reason he got it is because he

paid $390 million to get trump elected. sure, there are other people that have given him -- how can i say it? information, this and that, but the first person they didn't like called. elon musk makes his cars in china. he's been to russia. and who knows where he goes because he has his own private plane. he's the richest man in the world. and the other thing is, i don't know where in the constitution or the legislature or any of the papers, but felt like he had to be voted in, not just given permission. and then they fired the guy that wouldn't give him access to our

security. so everybody that doesn't read or pay attention needs to pay attention. it's only been two weeks and people are going broke. it's crazy. read the paper on 2025 and it will scare the hell out of you? host: project 2025? caller: yeah. and when trump says something, like he said, he was going to be a dictator, i took him -- you have to take him for what he says. i don't know about these other people here but that's the way i feel about it, the congress and senators and people that love this country and my father and husband and all those that fought for this country. i think it's a doggone shame and

i don't want to lose my democracy and i don't want to get all the people in the world mad at us. we've never taken countries from other people with green land and the other stuff but i'll get off the phone. you have a wonderful day. hannah: let's hear from president host: let's hear president trump who was asked about the legality of shutting down an independent agency of the government. reporter: doesn't it take an act of congress to do away with usaid. president trump: i don't think so, not when it comes to fraud. these people are lunatics and if it comes to fraud, you wouldn't have an act of congress and i'm not sure you would anyway. but we just want to do the right thing. it's something that should have been done a long time ago. went crazy during the biden administration. they went totally crazy what they were doing and the money they were giving to people that shouldn't be getting