which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2025] >> and those remarks from the two leaders at the white house a short time ago. we'll also bring you live coverage from the east room of the upcoming joint press conference with president trump and israeli prime minister netanyahu as it begins here on c-span.

host: after tech billionaire elon musk said he was in the process of shutting down the agency that oversees foreign aid. musk claimed on social media early monday morning that he ran the extraordinary move by president donald trump and had his full backing. it raised immediate objections from democrats who argued trump lax the constitutional authority to eliminate usaid. which was established by congress as an independent agency in 1998. and this is -- let's look at what secretary of state marco rubio said about closing usaid when he was asked by reporters during his trip in central america yesterday.

>> my issue as i said is, yeah, there are things at usaid that we should continue to do and will continue to do. but everything they do has to be in alignment with the national interests and foreign policy of the united states. the attitude that usaid has adopted over the years is, no, we are independent of the national interests. we fund programs not respective if they are aligned or not aligned with the foreign policy. that is ridiculous. these are taxpayer dollars. every penny we spend on foreign aid needs to be aligned with the foreign policy of the united states. this is not about ending the programs that usaid does. there are things that it does that are good and there are things that it does that -- it is about the way it operates. they need to take direction from the state department. when you ask questions, when you try to go in and find out what this program does, who is getting money, why is this getting funded, their attitude is we don't have to answer to you because we are independent, we answer to no one.

that is not true and will no longer be the case. host: secretary of state marco rubio is now acting head of usaid. this is the hill. marco rubio taking over as acting head of usaid amid agency turmoil. and we are going to hear quickly before we take your calls from senator andy kim, who is a democrat of new jersey. he once worked at usaid, and he talked to reporters. here he is. [video clip] >> about 20 years ago when i first came to work for the federal government, i walked through these doors right behind me. i started off my career in public service at usaid. and i just have to say how proud i was to be able to serve the country, how proud i was to be able to work for usaid, to be part of the foreign policy of this country, and i can tell you it was really tough today walking through the same doors 20 something years later only to

see it shut down to employees. all weekend long, i was getting calls and phone calls from people i worked with at usaid before, the people that are there now, people who have been disrespected by this administration that pushes them to decide, basically calls them criminals, and tells them not to show up to work. in fact, i went inside and tried to speak to the administrator. unfortunately was not able to meet with him. and i will continue to try today to meet with the acting administrator because i want to hear straight from him. is this the order that he gave? you have mysterious people within this new administration sending out emails across the entirety of usaid telling them not to show up. i talked to the security guard. i talked to the security guard just in there. he said he has been given specific orders to prevent

employees of usaid from entering the building today, and i just find that to be absolutely ridiculous. this is no way to govern. this is no way to treat public servants. this is no way for us to conduct our foreign policy as a country. i just had to show up today, see it with my own eyes, the chaos of this administration, and just their attacks on public servants in our country. host: that was new jersey senator andy kim, a democrat, outside of the usaid office building. in case you want to go to the website, usaid.gov, it has been taken off-line. this is what you get when you go to usaid.gov. it has been taken down. let's start with calls with matt in maryland. good morning. caller: good morning. let's not sugarcoat what is going on. this is a coup. the richest man in the world has been given access to basically

the united states main bank, the way that we pay people's social security, the way that we pay basically for everything. he has also been given the ability to take one of our most important assets for foreign diplomacy that keeps us out of war off-line. why? who knows. but he has been given that access. with that access is information no one else has. he is a federal contractor. he has no security clearance. he could not get security clearance. and here we are. he has access to all of that information. given access to all of that information, our information that federal employees have tried to secure forever, to other people who don't have that information. he is a federal contractor to us, but also he has contracts with china and i am sure many of our other foreign enemies. this is a coup, and we need to wake up and say this is not normal.

even if you voted for donald trump, this is not normal. wake up, everyone. thank you. host: before you go, since you are a federal employee, can you tell us what is going on with you, your agency? what is happening? caller: i worked for the department of defense. it has never been more precarious in my over 20 years of working in the federal government. morale is terrible, which is the point. the emails we received from some janky server that teenagers working for elon musk put together to try to encourage all federal employees to quit. we are not going to quit. we took an oath to the constitution. the constitution that donald trump does not believe in. and you have not seen anything because the federal workforce

cares about america, cares about america, and does not care about vladimir putin or whoever the heck donald trump and elon musk care most about. host: have you been given that buyout option? caller: yes. we received it from what we thought was a phishing email as we found out sent from people who infiltrated the office of personnel management on behalf of elon musk. host: ok, but that is a real offer that you are going to have to decide on, right? caller: it is a real offer, but everyone that i have talked to has doubled down and said i care about america. i don't trust anyone involved. this is a trap. as details have sprinkled out about this, no one that i know, certainly no one who works for me, or no one in my organization plans to take this because they don't trust anyone involved.

and it does not seem legit. there are processes to do this kind of thing and they are not following it. host: got it, matt. here is ed in lawrenceville, georgia, republican. caller: good morning. i am glad i have the second caller because the first caller does not know what he is talking about. musk does not have any power at all. everything that he is doing, him and his investigators report and his investigators report and they decide if that is good or bad. and taxpayer money is being used for illicit purposes like giving condoms to the middle east, just all the things that go on. billions of dollars wasted, all

over the decades. president trump is putting an end to it. musk is doing this absolutely free. he's not getting paid to do this. he's doing this on his own time. this man wants to help america. that guy in the defense department, that first caller, oh, my god. host: sorry, ed, i wanted to ask you when you say he's not making any money, which he's not making a salary, the concept of his contract's with the federal government. how do you react to that? do you see that could be a conflict of interest for elon musk, that he can make more money for his companies. caller: i think his contracts is a legitimate thing. and they were approved and they were signed.

it doesn't change anything. all he's doing is going after the waste, fraud, and abuse. and he doesn't have the power to do anything. he's got to report to the president. he host: elon musk is serving as a government employee and he's officially serving under president trump as a special designee. the designation means musk who has been a force within the new trump administration is not a volunteer but also not a full time federal employee. a government employee is anyone who works or is expected to work for the government 130 days or less in a 365 day period, musk is not being paid host: here's

jason. caller: elon musk is there because he gave a bunch of money to trump and bought twitter to elevate everything trump is about. he's there to do what trump wants him to do.

he gets access. right now the government funding is riding on a continuing resolution that ends in march. any employee. 4 who will take a buyout because the funding ends in march. and it can be given for government employees is $25,000. even if he could pay the dues to september, he couldn't give them more than $25,000. all of this is the government is filled with demons but truth be told, they're regular people doing their job to make sure things run well and unfortunately, right wing voters don't want the government to run well.

host: here is maurice in dunkirk, maryland, independent. good morning. caller: i just wanted to say, i mean, using terms like it is a coup, you don't get a choice in a coup. if they are giving you the choice of a buyout or to leave, they are not making you leave. why can't we -- the usaid was created in 1961 by an executive order. executive orders can be turned over. they are just basically putting on the brakes and stopping the crazy spending. you keep up the good stuff that it does, but you eliminate the bad stuff. people want to make it about elon. it is not about him. i mean, he is just doing his job. host: i just want to clarify host: you're right, 1961, j.f.k. created it in executive order but 1998 congress established usaid as a independent agency. caller: president trump has a

right to do what he's doing but let's check what's going on and it's not totally eliminated yet but does help to be able to cut spending where you can, especially if it's wasteful spending. that's all i'm saying. people are so emotional about it. when you have a choice, choice and coup doesn't go together. it's a good conversation to have. host: this is michael, a republican in smith field, south carolina. how is it going. caller: hi, mimi, how has it been going? host: good. caller: the holidays were tragic but i'll get right on to the topic this morning. we've had one tragic event after another and the country needs some healing right now. i want to send out a prayer to everyone that's been affected by these terrible events that's happened. with aviation and terrorism and

things going on, school shootings once again. why doesn't bill gates get involved. if we put politics aside, i'm sure bill gates did not give money to the trump organization or the c pack and assume that's probably not the case but if we can just put that aside and give him money, not give him money, voting for someone, not voting for someone, he's our president. and if he could just open the invitation to bill gates would cool a lot of heads on the left. host: this is michael that used to be in four oaks, north carolina, right?

caller: yes, it is. host: you keep moving around and confusing me. caller: i moved once, mimi. host: you're in north carolina, all right. do you welcome the things you've seen him do so far in these first two weeks? caller: on a national basis, yes. i know the first caller, i'm very concerned what's going on, what he's saying. i hope things will get better for him, you know. i don't really know what to say about that. and i wish it could have been on tariffs this morning. host: that's another topic.

caroline leavitt was asked whether musk or anyone working with him passed a background check. take a look. reporter: elon musk is a special employee, what kind of clearance does he have. karoline: he's a government employee and has abided by all applicable federal laws. as for his security clearance, not sure. reporter: did he pass a background check? karoline: i don't know but i can check. reporter: you know if anyone on his team have security clearance. karoline: no, i don't but i can check for you. host: amanda in north attleboro, massachusetts. caller: how are you today? host: good. caller: i'm calling because i'm concerned how our constitution is written and how our government is supposed to be run we have three branches, the

legislative, executive and judicial. all three are separate. and elon musk is getting his hands into something the legislative branch should take care of. if there's a problem with spending, it has to be done in a legislative branch. the money he's olding on to is the money, our taxpayer money and on top of that he has offsets to every american who has receiverred federal money or paid into the federal government and not only their social security number but bank account and we don't know if it's secure. i want to tell republicans for those who voted for him and disagree, go to -- [inaudible] 5calls.org and put your zip code in and call your representatives

and tell them this is not right. my personal information is no longer secure. host: this is in heyward, wisconsin, independent line. rick, you're next. caller: thanks for taking my call. i fully support this doge effort. i think we have to start somewhere. don't he with have to start somewhere? the department of government efficiency and why we have so many problems is because we're inefficient. i was for vivek, also, but unfortunately was put in the back seat and now wants to run for governor.

he's a very smart man. if he were a democrat i would think he's a very smart man. i don't know why we draw the line on what party you're from. i called before and voted for obama back in those days and i voted for championship. i don't care democrat or republican. and c-span spins it into racial issues. there should be some effort to try to stop people from bringing race into these things because i don't care black or white or native americans or whatever. anyway, you do a great job but feel like i need to know, sometimes it's hard to know what subjects are coming up? do you only take calls once from each person in 30-day period or can you call whenever you want? host: no, it's every 30 days, rick, to give other people a chance. caller: i've had a hard time getting through sometimes and

goes back to when vivek -- anyway, go ahead, take your other calls and have a great day host: this is john. caller: everyone is excited about elon musk and everyone has had outside advisers that were friends or acquaintances and a guy that had done real well in the private sector and used to call it the kitchen cabinet. but the man who said musk doesn't have any power is exactly right. he goes to trump and tells trump what's going on. in this case this isn't just a bad apple, it's a bowl of worms.

it goes to dictators and despots and doesn't get where it belongs and to countries that hate america. and it goes to governments and will come back in the form of donations to our politicians and needs to be put under the auspices of the state department and overseen by the secretary of state, whether he's a democrat or republican. it doesn't need to be this little agency that's going to decide where these billions and billions of dollars go. we are $37 trillion in debt. we aren't going to tax the rich to get out of this. it's going to sink the country if we don't change it. there's a huge amount of waste in almost every segment. the defense department that called, what about all these g-12 level employees of the government making $150,000, $200,000 a year that weren't

even going to work during the last four years since covid? is that kind of wasteful? i think it is. and that's what elon musk has petitioned to try to clean up. he's going to check it out and check back with trump. as the guy from massachusetts said, we've got to start somewhere. we cannot continue. the guy from the defense department that said morale is very low. well, who has been running the country for the last four years if morale is so low? the federal government is bloated beyond belief. money goes where we don't know and we've got to change that. it's got to change. we will sink in this $37 trillion debt if we don't. and yeah, a lot of people aren't going to like it but that's just the -- i'd rather do that than die under this $37 trillion in debt. host: got it, here's "newsweek"

about usaid. this is the map and shows where it spends the most money and this is the map right here. you can take a look, if you'd like to, you can press on each one and see. it says the u.s. is by far the world's largest provider of humanitarian aid. usaid issues billions in assistance in more than 100 countries. the u.s. spends less than 1% of its budget on foreign assistance, a smaller share overall than some other countries. and this is taylor. in knoxville, tennessee, democrat. taylor, you're next. caller: so first for any moderates or conservatives, i guess you invest in earplugs because you'll hear the weeping and wailing like you've never heard from the left.

second, these people's gravy train with biscuit wheels has hopped the track. their livelihoods are at stake. it happens in the private sector all the time, not so much in the federal government. they'll have to go get jobs. frank zappa had a song, "wind up working in the gas station." i suggest you give it a listen. elon musk and doge, i think -- i'm not super up to date on what he's doing but if it's exploratory, great. and these people probably have a space x t-shirt in the back of his closet because he was a darling of the left 5-10 years ago. thank you. host: this is "the washington post" with this, it says trump preps order to dismantle education department. it says president trump is preparing a executive order aimed at eventually closing the education department and in the short term dismantling it within according to people briefed in the contents. the draft order acknowledges

only congress can shut down the department and instead, the agency has begun to diminish itself. the work is underway already and the new administration has been trying to reduce the work force by putting scores of employees on administrative leave and pressuring staff to voluntarily quit. roughly 20 people with elon musk's department of government efficiency known as doge has been working inside the education department looking to cut spending and staff and says at least some doge staffers have gained access to multiple sensitive internal systems including a financial aid data set that contains the personal information for millions of students enrolled in the federal student aid program. in "the washington post." mary, independent in richland, washington. good morning. caller: good morning, mimi.

what aggravates me so much is the people that call in and don't realize that everything -- the democracy is going away. the people that hold the purse is the congress. when elon musk got all the information, all the social security numbers and the people before you, the grandchildren, the only reason he got it was because he paid $390 million to get trump elected. sure, there are other people in there that have given him, how can i say it, information, this and that but the first person they didn't like called. elon musk makes his cars in china. he has -- he's been to russia.

and who knows where he goes because he has his own private plane. he's the richest man in the world. the other thing is i don't know where in the legislature or any of the papers, but i thought he had to be voted in, not just given permission and then they fired the guy that wouldn't give him access to our top security. so everybody that doesn't read or doesn't pay attention needs to pay attention. it's only been two weeks and people are going broke. it's crazy, you know. read. read the paper on 2025. this is.

project 2025? caller: yeah. when trump says something, like he said he was going to be a dictator, i took him. you have to take him for what he says. that is the way i feel about it, and i think the congress and the senators and the people that love this country and my father and my husband and all of those who fought for this country, i think it is a doggone shame and i don't want to lose my democracy. and i don't want to get all the people in the world mad at us. we have never taken countries from other people like greenland and other stuff. host: let's hear from president trump. he was asked about the legality of unilaterally shutting down an independent agency of the government. here is what he said. [video clip] >> does it take an act of

congress to do only with usaid? >> i don't know. i don't think so, not when it comes to fraud. if there is fraud. these people are lunatics. if it comes to fraud, you would not have an act of congress, and i am not sure you would anyway. but we just want to do the right thing. it is something that should have been done a long time ago. went crazy during the biden administration. they went totally crazy, what they were doing, and the money they were given to people that should not be getting it and to agencies and others that should not be getting it. it was a shame. tremendous fraud. but we will be doing a report. we will be giving you that report at the appropriate time. i love the concept of it. yeah. i love the concept. but they turned out to be radical left lunatics. and the concept of it is good. it is all about the people. host: back to the phones now. to mark, a democrat in westwood,

new jersey, good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for c-span. i just want to give people a heads up because they voted for trump because prices are so high. well, they are about to get a lot higher, folks.these tariffs are a ridiculous idea. giving and oligarch -- an oligarch like elon musk access to all of our information, access to the treasury department, that just seems insane to me. you don't do things like that. but this is what people voted for. they are going to have a very rude awakening because they never want to cut the things that need to be cut like the ridiculous waste of the bloated pentagon. they always want to cut education and medicaid and food stamps and things that help people. it is just a crying shame that americans, you know, voted for a

crooked businessman, and now he has all of his other crooked businessman friends in there to go ahead and remake this country into their kind of utopia where they can do anything they want. it is a fact that elon musk and jeff bezos have hundreds of lawsuits against them because they hurt their employees, won't let them organize, and that is all going to go away. and that is what it is all about. they bought access. our government has been for sale to the highest bidder for a long time. it is now in overdrive. host: here is aaron in new mexico, republican. good morning. caller: hail trump. i think it is wonderful what must and trump are doing for our company as a gen x'er to see the government operate in full transparency in the face of the american people, the usa.

it is great. i don't think we are doing enough. they are not doing enough. they need to address these school shootings. i think these american parents are depraved for sending their kids to school where they have to go under a desk. school shootings in america. hail trump, america. host: there was some conversation about elon musk's level of security clearance. and this is what is in the guardian. this is from december of last year. it says that elon musk will not receive the highest level of government security clearance. the spacex head has been advised to not seek the same top-secret clearance over his drug use and contracts with foreign nationals. it's as it is unlikely to

receive government security if he so applied, even as his spacex lunch company blast military and spy agency payloads into orbit. he is the first person to exceed $400 billion in self-made personal wealth. we will find more information about that as far as what he currently holds as a security clearance, if it is top-secret or not. and we will talk to anthony in florida, independent line. caller: good morning. thanks for taking my call. i am a younger guy. i am an independent with some very strong left-leaning tendencies when it comes to american forest projection and other international policy. but i am pretty fiscally and socially conservative. so i often don't really like where the national competition goes. around the doge question and shutting down usaid, i really did not know what this agency did. it has taken a long time for me

to read and research a bit so i understand a little bit more. one bit of context i have found that has helped me kind of understand what is going on here and evaluate with a bit of a cooler head was that usaid was part of american power projection overseas. they have been involved in attempts to destabilize the cuban government. there was some very unsavory things done with the sterilization of indigenous folk in peru. at the same time, that type of aid went out to completely legitimate causes, causes that i think are worthwhile. for folks who are a little bit worried about neoimperialism, i wonder why there is so much outcry over this agency being reined in a bit. at the same time, i understand because i think that the

shutting down of usaid kind of has an overlap with the tariffs where we kind of see a global trade order starting to become more regionalized and more focused on trade protectionism. we are entering another season of that. in america, as many listeners know, has had a long history of trade protectionism, particularly in the early 1900s, and tariffs can work in the long run. and they can also make things really tough in the short run. i would encourage folks to check out and economics explained youtube video where "can tariffs actually work?" is the title. it was informative to be and helps me think about these issues in a way that, i don't know -- everyone is freaked out right now, and i get that. but now is the time to recommit to democracy and becoming informed citizens as best we can. that is me trying to see the good in things. i did not vote for trump.

i dislike him but i am try to see the good he could be doing instead of demonizing him. thanks for taking my call. host: could you tell us how old you are? you said you are young. caller: i just turned 30. not as young as i used to be. host: all right. some information for you on usaid. as far as the mission, it leads international humanitarian d development arm of the u.s. government. establishe in 1961. the workforce totals more than 10,000 with approximately two thirds of that workforce serving overseas. in 2023, usaid provided assistance to approximately 130 countries. that is according to the congressional research service. regarding the budget of usaid, so this would be fiscal year 2023, $40 billion in combined appropriations, representing mon onthird of the funds department of state, foreign

operations, and related programs appropriation, and international food aid provided in the agriculture appropriation. this is kathleen in georgetown, delaware, democrat. caller: good morning mimi and buddy out there. i have concerned. i don't know if everybody happened to see this but there was a robbery and at the end but it was not certain elon musk n gave th -- elon musk gave the nazi salute. i saw that. there was a rally in germany and he was up on the stage jumping up and down at a neo-nazi celebration or whatever. votes will be taken inhe