>> coming up on c-span's "washington journal," we take your calls and comments live. then, foundation for defense of democracies' david daoud will talk about the latest on the israel-hamas ceasefire in president trump's plans for gaza. in peter shin and joe dunn of the national association of community health centers discusses how the government funding freeze is impacting community health centers. "washington journal" starts now. ♪ host: good morning. it is saturday, february 15th, 2025 area the trump administration is continuing its review of federal agencies,

laying off thousands of civil servants this week, even as legal challenges over the actions and authority of elon musk and his d.o.g.e. team continue to work through the courts. and the munich security conference is ongoing in germany, with russia's war in ukraine dominating the discussion. we want to hear your top new story of the week. phone lines for republicans is (202) 748-8001. for democrats, (202) 748-8000. for independents, (202) 748-8002 . if you would like to text us, that number is (202) 748-8003. please be sure to include your name and where you are writing in from. on social media, we are on facebook.com/cspan. and on x at @cspanwj. turning to that munich security conference, vice president jd vance addressed the crowd yesterday, as reported here in

the washington post. vance exports maga message. he finds common cause with anti-migrant parties. jd vance made his vice presidential debut on the global security stage friday in a scolding speech here, pressing europe's centrist leaders to move over to accommodate the rising anti-migration, nationalist voices they have at times sought to block from power. in his speech, vance fully waited into nationalist politics, blasting an audience of european premises and presidents for failing to listen to their own voters. that speech was friday. today, ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy addressed the crowd in munich. among the points he made, he said the time has come for a european army, as reported in politico. let's listen to a clip of the ukrainian president. [video clip] >> yesterday, here in munich,

the u.s. vice president made it clear. he said decades of the old relationship between europe and america are ending. from now on, things will be different, and europe needs to adjust to that. ladies and gentlemen, i believe in europe, and i am sure you believe, too. i urge you to act for your own sake. [applause] and for the sake of europe, people of europe, your nations, your houses, your children, and our shared future. for this, your pass to become self-sufficient, united,

ukrainian and european. right now come ukraine's army, supported by global aid -- thank you so much -- is holding back russia. but if not us, then who will stop them? really? let's be honest. we cannot rule out the possibility america might say no to europe on issues that threaten it. many, many leaders have talked about europe that needs its own military and army. an army of europe. and i -- [applause] and i really believe the time has come. the armed forces of europe must be created. [applause] host: turning to domestic news and the ongoing legal challenges against elon musk'sorts to

reduce the size of the federal government. as reported here on fox news, a judge extended an order blocking musk's d.o.g.e. team from the treasury payment system. a federal dodge extended a temporary order that blocks elon musk's department of government efficiency team from accessing payment systems within the treasury department. the extension comes after 19 state attorneys general filed a lawsuit against the trump administration over d.o.g.e.'s access to the payment system, which has information about americans' social security, medicare and veterans benefits, tax refund information, and much more. the lawsuit claims the musk-run agency illegally accessed the system at the trump administration's behest. we are looking for your top news story of the week. we start with darrell in georgia on our line for democrats. good morning.

what is your top new story? caller: hey, how are you doing? host: good, how are you? caller: good. my first new story, overseas with jd vance, if you heard the whole clip, when it was his speech, he did not rule out troops on the ground in ukraine. to protect minerals? this is crazy. and also, the treasury secretary trying to get zelenskyy to find some paperwork for some of the minerals as well? trump has a cabinet in there that is just like him, crazy as a bat. let me jump off to another -- host: before you do that, i want to give our audience a bit more information about what you are referencing in terms of minerals. here is a story on npr. access to ukraine's rare earths

may help keep usaid flowing. as the trump administration publicly hammers out its plans on ending russia's war on ukraine, it is also pressing ukraine for deals in exchange for more aid. one deal would hand the u.s. the right to mine critical minerals, including rare earth metals, which are used in a variety of products, including laptops, electric vehicle batteries, and cancer treatment drugs. just wanted to give folks context of what you're talking about there. caller: thank you so much. let me jump to another topic in the united states. eric adams. governor kathy hochul, she should remove him. eric adams has really got himself caught up in a real bad situation. he's really in a pretzel now, dealing with trump, pam bondi, tom homan. these guys are going to use him

to go against his own city. kathy hochul should go ahead and do it now, remove him, because this has become something like the manchurian candidate or something like "the g odfather." it's crazy. in the last thing, the poor lady over at agriculture, she will have these farmers in a mess. they already have stuff rotting in the ground because of the usaid situation, and these folks will be in a bad situation. buckle up. get ready. we gave this man this power, and he is really giving it to us now. thank you so much, kimberly. you look pretty today, too. thank you. host: vincent is in tulsa, oklahoma.

actually, i've lost vincent k let's go to paul in boston on our line for independents. good morning, paul. caller: yes, hi. the headline of the week that most captured me was the 12:00 ultimatum that donald trump president trump, suggested. suggested that he was in favor of the 12:00 to release the remainder of the hostages by hamas. a bunch of u.n. leaders got together and came out, and they seemed to be against that. i realize that was tied to him, a suggestion that may the arab countries and america should get together and try to constructively clear out gaza and redevelop it maybe, get back

to the bargaining table and talk about it. but i was wondering -- to me, that sounded like a good idea. just release all the hostages. that's a good start, an act of faith. that was pretty much the headlines i captured my attention all week. host: i will point out, this morning, among the hostages, three additional hostages were released by hamas in gaza, including an american hostage freed by hamas in the latest exchange amid the tense cease-fire. going on, it says hamasn saturday handed over three hostages, among them an american citizen, and israel began releasing palestinian prisoners in a highly scrutinized exchange -- sixth exchange days. herbert is in michigan on our line for republicans. good morning. caller: yeah, i would just like

to talk about nato here. i think most americans do not realize why nato was formed to begin with. what is happening right now is donald trump is one of the most ignorant men that ever ran this country. bottom line, russia and china, iran, iraq, all these countries that hate the u.s. -- most of them because of our own doing -- are banding together to push the united states off to itself. ok? if donald trump abandons nato, we are on our own. this is what is happening. and american people are so stoop it, they are going along with it. that's the bottom line. ok? and when it comes to this gaza strip, people need to realize, netanyahu is a very evil man. i believe he planned this attack

on his own country for this very reason. he's been trying to take over gaza for years, and this is a perfect example. they need to do a little research here on this and find out why that attack actually happened. israel and the united states are not innocent. host: so i haven't seen any validated reporting that netanyahu was responsible for hamas' october 7 attack on israel. where are you seeing that? caller: well, actually -- i mean, ask yourself. i live in michigan. if canada attacked the united states, the military would be here in five minutes. why did it take 12 hours for the military to respond? something stinks to high heaven. this man is involved. host: ok. melvin is in richmond, virginia on our line for democrats. caller: good morning, kimberly.

thank you for taking my call. how are you today? host: good, thank you. what is your top new story of the week? caller: as always, i called 30 days ago, i think i mentioned to you my thoughts that elon musk used his computer knowledge to fix this election. of course, we know there is really no proof of that. but at the least, he spent $250 million to get trump elected. of course, so my top story, as always, is elon musk and his appearance in the white house this week, with his little son running around acting crazy, and how trump reacted to that. but elon is a dangerous man. he is basically the man that is

going to be -- and a lot of people already call him -- the shadow president of the united states. because trump has put the power in his hands, to go out and disrupt all of these departments in our government for money's sake. everything trump does is about money. he will save a dollar here, save a dollar there. but the idea always is to save this money, so he can give tax cuts to the rich. no one ever mentions what they are going to do with all this money they are supposed to save by cutting all these jobs. but the real idea, of course, is to line their pockets with the money, the quote-unquote "money" they saved from shutting

this country down governmental-wise. i feel that elon musk is going to take the same playbook that he used to get trump elected, and he is going to get other right wing candidates elected all around the world. so, in essence, he will be the de facto -- not only the richest man in the world, but the most powerful man in the world. if you notice this week -- and maybe you can bring the crowd up on the story about him -- over in germany, using his influence to get the right wing people -- i think they even have some quote-unquote "nazi ties" to get them elected. he will use that same playbook, use it in france, in canada, and

in england, and nato will no longer exist. your thoughts please? host: well, i will bring up an article relates to what you were munching about elon musk in germany. here is a story in politico. musk will face consequent as for interfering in the german looking, says the front runner merz. the next german government's response could be political, legal, or possibly target musk's giga factory in berlin. tesla chief musk because an outcry in germany by throwing his weight behind the far-right alternative for germany in the run-up to next week's vote. he first endorsed the afd in a post on x last december. it was followed by a livestream chat with party leader alice weidel in a virtual appearance at a party conference. that's musk's actions internationally, raising some pushback.

here in the united states, as our caller mentioned, musk appeared in the white house this week with president trump and was asked by reporters about the actions of the d.o.g.e. team. let's listen. [video clip] >> pretty quiet. >> your detractors, mr. musk, including a lot of democrats would like i've detractors? i don't believe it. >> say you are organizing a hostile takeover of government and doing in a nontransparent way. what is your response to that? >> first of all, you couldn't ask for a stronger mandate from the public. the public -- we had a majority of the public voting for president trump, won the house, won the senate. the people voted for major government reform. there should be no doubt about that.

that was on the campaign. the president spoke about that at every rally. the people voted for major government reform, that is what people will get. they will get what they voted for. a lot of times, people don't get what they voted for, but in this presidency, they are going to get what they voted for, and that is what democracy is all about. host: back to your calls for your top news story of the week. sean in minnesota on our line for republicans. good morning. caller: i just want to mention something that probably a lot of people have not heard of. and that is targeted individuals and targeted justice known as the havana syndrome, or known as anonymous health incidents. people need to take this serious. 100%, this is happening. targeted individuals. it needs to be addressed, and it needs to be addressed immediately.

that's what i wanted to say. people need to take this story serious. i know where a lot of this corrupt money where they are not spending, they are spending on this program. that's it. targeted individuals. it is happening, and it is absolutely a horrendous program happening to innocent americans. host: i just want to be clear, when you mentioned the havana syndrome, i will read a little bit of an ap article, and that i want to make sure i understand your point. it says the u.s. finds no havana syndrome link to foreign powers, but two spy agencies say it's possible. it goes on to say u.s. intelligence has found no evidence linking a foreign power to the mysterious havana syndrome injuries reported by some u.s. formats and other government personnel -- diplomats and other government personnel, though two agencies say it is possible a foreign adversary may have developed or deployed a weapon responsible

for the injuries. the conclusion follows a review conducted by seven intelligence agencies or departments that examined cases of brain injuries and other symptoms reported by american diplomats and other military and government staffers, who have raised questions about the involvement of a foreign adversary. this is the havana syndrome you're referencing? caller: yes. and i am just your average, every day american citizen. i am not in the military or nothing, but this stuff started happening to me, and 1,000,000% it is happening to me. i have looked it up, and it is happening, all the same things they talked about, but it is considered targeted individuals. and can we really trust a lot of our agencies right now? can you really trust the facts and the findings they come out with right now? i don't believe so. i am telling you, it is happening 100%.

it is happening to me. i bet a lot of other people, but it gets silenced, just like everything else. hopefully, people take this serious, because it is happening, and it is horrendous. host: mike is in rockford, illinois on our line for independents. good morning. caller: morning. five things i've noticed in hearings in the last week that the media has not picked up on. in kennedy's hearing -- host: are you talking about the confirmation hearing for rfk junior as a secretary of health and human services? caller: yes, that one. he was saying he wanted to switch insurance companies from pay-as-you-go, or customer goes, to a value-based system, where the health care determines if it is valuable or not for the customer to get the help.

at the same time, marjorie taylor greene's hearings had to do with laws under corporate, it is much easier to go around agencies as they sit now, so if they were under the corporate hashtag, privatized, things would be much more easy to do -- host: sorry, i do not want to keep interrupting you, but i want to help our audience. there was a hearing this week for the house subcommittee related to the d.o.g.e. team, and that is the marjorie taylor greene committee meeting you are referencing, correct? caller: and no media picked up on the points they kept going towards, as the law under corporate is much easier to go around than the agencies, the way they sit. basically, they were saying privatized. you can go back and watch and see if i am right or wrong. another point i wanted to make was the ai air traffic control

has been under ai for a minute, and people don't know. we just passed $3 million for smaller airports, like the one in rockford, that replace their air traffic control tower with the ai model. that's why -- one guy was in the air tower the other day when it crashed, because it is run by ai. people don't know that. the other point i want to make is the mission creep of i.c.e. they want from the black coats, that was basically fbi, dea, and others that were part-time and for i.c.e.. now, they are bringing in the military part of it, which is basically military, in camo, faces covered, and they are going door-to-door. this is a mission creep with no exit plan, and someone needs to look at that also. the last point i wanted to make was the hearing where a

cumbersome and mentioned -- a congressman mentioned the black-and-white new hires are at a 50 year low, even though government is doing two thirds of all the hires, it's not the blacks and whites. what that is telling me is d.o.g.e. uncovered these colleges that give millions for leadership roles. so i feel not just our governments are calling these immigrants, but they are training to replace us. host: there were several things the caller mentioned there, but he did mention the house subcommittee hearing on government efficiency that was run by representative marjorie taylor greene. you can find the entire hearing on our website, c-span.org, if you would like to go back and watch that. thomas is in bennington, vermont on our line for democrats. good morning. caller: good morning, kimberly. love the "journal."

i would like to talk about the naming of the gulf of mexico. i think it should be called for a constellation. the gulf of cancer. that's a constellation in the northern hemisphere. because we have cancer alley. it's very famous. we have lake okeechobee, with the waste from the fort myers area. we have offshore drilling. you know, the gulf of mexico is getting cancer. we're destroying it. and also, that dang jd vance disparaging greta. thank you very much. good morning. host: thomas mentioned the ongoing controversy over the executive order that the president issued renaming the gulf of mexico the "gulf of america."

the associated press and international news organizations elected not to change it in certain parts of the coverage, so therefore the white house, as reported in cnn, banned the ap indefinitely over the use of gulf of mexico. the trump white house said friday the associated press is banned from the oval office and air force one indefinitely. the ap, one of the world's biggest news outlets, was singled out by the white house earlier this week over three words, "gulf of mexico." president trump said the u.s. government would rename the body of water the "gulf of america." the change has taken effect government agencies, but other countries do not ignite the new name, and the ap has customers around the world, so it still refers to the gulf of mexico while also acknowledging trump's degree. other global news outlets have made similar decisions, but this week, the white house singled out the ap. next from indiana on our line

for republicans, good morning, rodni. caller: good morning, how are you? host: good, thank you. what's your top new story? caller: the usaid and all the funding that was going out worldwide or crazy things while here, in our homeland, we still have new palestine, ohio struggling to recover. we have north carolina struggling to recover. we have the burns in california that decimated the palisades. it is still needing funding. and the money's gone because the biden administration had just peddled it away to these -- it was like $7 million to uganda for commons. somalia or iraq or something crazy. in the far left is having a meltdown over this whole d.o.g.e. findings.

and it's really needed to get our country back on track. host: ok. next up is michael in essex, connecticut on our line for independents. good morning. caller: hi, good morning. thank you for playing that tape of volodymyr zelenskyy speaking to european leaders. that is a huge story not getting enough attention. i think it will be a growing story in the future. i wasn't even aware of it -- host: it only happened a few hours ago, so that is probably why you have not seen it much yet. caller: but i think it is important to note he is calling on european nations, saying it may be time to form a european army. that clearly we can no longer count on the united states of america. that's massive. and it's becoming clear to everyone that the united states can no longer be trusted. the united states -- think about this.

with donald trump in the oval office, he is so willing, and with ease, to make canada an enemy, to make mexico an enemy. to want to consume other lands like greenland, take over gaza. i don't think there is a nation that can count on the united states of america. when zelenskyy brought that out with clarity, he is not only saying we need a european army to protect ourselves from russia, but i think he is hinting, we need a european army to perhaps protect ourselves from the united states of america. and he would not be wrong at that. i am a proud american, and i want to believe we will always be on the side of democracy, but clearly, that is no longer guaranteed with donald trump living in the oval office. it's something to think about. it's a massive story, and in the days ahead, i ink we will realize how big that is.

thank you for listening to me. host: a bit more on that story michael mentioned. here is coverage from the bbc of zelenskyy's speech earlier at the munich security conference. the lenski calls for the creation of an army of europe. ukraine's president volodymyr zelenskyy called for the creation of an army of europe to guard against russia as he suggested the u.s. may lose -- may no longer come to the continent's aid. speaking at the munich cicada conference, he also said ukraine would never accept deals made behind our backs without our involvement after u.s. president trump and russian president putin in a speech friday in which he attacked european democracies, u.s. vice president jd vance warned that europe needed to step up in a big way on defense and zelenskyy said, i believe the time has come. the armed forces of europe must be created. that was coverage from the bbc. let's go to john in brooklyn on

our line for democrats. good morning. caller: how are you doing? i'm john from brooklyn, democrat, and it amazes me why nobody asks trump, and he dismantled these programs, where is the replacement? i haven't heard one person ask him, what are your plans to replace this? what do you have in mind? do you have anything ready? i notice when he say something nobody follows up on it. he said that like people caused the crisis in d.c. the other day, nobody questioned him about finding out whether that is not true. host: i don't believe the president said black people caused the crash. are you talking about the plane crash? caller: yes. host: i didn't see where the president said that. caller: he said the -- host: you are saying the d.e.i.?

i understand. i will find that information. finish your point, john. caller: i don't like fraud myself. i'm glad he is doing that, but do it the right way. there is a right way and a wrong thing to do something. when you just go and dismantle and follow these people -- fire these people and don't have a plan mine -- mind -- we need the fbi and cia, people with experience that know how to go and use they information, they contacts without exposing our, you know, how are people that is getting information for us. there is a lot of things that i'm surprised, and then i asked, what are you going to replace it with? why are you doing this? so, that is my opinion. i just wish somebody would ask him, show him your replacement. thank you. host: related to what john was

saying about the president's statements about that plane crash, he is referencing that trump blames dei and biden for the crash under his watch. president trump's remarks suggesting that diversity in hiring and other biden policies somehow caused the disaster reflected his instinct to frame advance through his political and ideological lines. this is reporting in the new york times. president trump blamed diversity requirements of the federal aviation administration and his two democratic predecessors for the collision over the potomac river, saying standards for air traffic controllers have been lacks. mr. trump cited no evidence that diversity programs had anything to do with the accident, which killed 67 people and even admitted the investigation had only just begun. and there was additional coverage today in the washington post as that investigation continues, finding that the

blackhawk crew may not have heard crucial tower instructions according to the ntsb. the crew of an army black hawk helicopter may not have heard key instructions from air traffic control before a collision with a passenger jet over the potomac river on january 29. the national transportation safety board said friday in its most detailed account of the moments before the crash that killed 67 people. about 17 seconds before the helicopter and airplane collided air traffic control had directed the blackhawk' has crew to pass behind the crg, referring to the type of american airlines regional jet approaching reagan national airport. jennifer homendy said friday that pass behind may not have been received based on its review of the blackhawk's cockpit voice recorder, which did not capture those words. the helicopter crew had activated its microphone at that moment to communicate with air

traffic control. larry is in pontus, ohio on our line for republicans. good morning, a. -- good morning, a. -- leah read. caller: good morning, how are you? i did not support donald trump. i do support my senators and my congressman that a republican. but him cap abandoning ukraine goes against everything this country stands for. and to kiss up to vladimir putin and north korea and all of that stuff and abandon our allies in europe that we stood with since world war i is ridiculous, and he should be tried for being a traitor. thank you. host: larry was mentioning president trump's stance on

ukraine and on wednesday president trump answered questions about a conversation he had with president vladimir putin of russia. here is that exchange. >> do you plan on meeting with vladimir putin? and whether any preconditions? pres. trump: no, we had a great call, and it lasted for a long time. over an hour this morning. i also had with president zelenskyy a very good call after that. and i think we are on the way to getting peace. i think president putin wants peace and president zelenskyy want space, and i want peace. i just want to see people stop getting killed. we are very far away from that particular war, but that is a vicious war. probably a million and a half soldiers killed in a short period of time. i have pictures that you would not believe it. you would not believe what you have to look at. young, beautiful soldiers that are just being decimated. and it would be nice to end it

immediately. but we had a very good talk with -- people didn't really know what president putin's thoughts were, but i think i can say with great confidence wants to see it ended also. that is good. host: again, we are looking for your top news story of the week. some answers we have received via text message. eddie inngham, alabama says, my top issue is the rnmentcks and elon musk. i agree the spending needs to be controlled better, but i find it that there is not any bipartisan agreement to vet elon musk. no one has asked the question, does elon musk have a password to access government systems? because it appears he does. barb in long grove, illinois says the top new story of t week as vice president vance's speech at the munich security conference. he was critical of european nations and made no mention of attempts to end e war in ukraine.

and dean fromuncie, indiana says, my top ns story is that we are finally exposing the waste, fraud, a after of our tax dollars in o need to shrink the size of the government. you can text us as well as (202) 748-8000 -- pat (202) 748-8003. jennifer is in district heights, maryland. caller: hello, c-span. thank you for taking my call. i top story is this man who is taking over our country, musk. and the person who called in that mentioned that he had a hand in our elections. it makes perfect sense, because trump has yielded to this man,

and let this man into the oval office with his kid and the kid insulted him. and i kinda feel sorry for trump, because he is so power-hungry and here he is, letting this man control him. and it is sad. so, i don't know if trump has really lost his mind completely or if he just got caught up and not know that this man was going to take over the whole country, including him, because trump is just like a little child underneath musk's thumb. it is like musk is the president and trump is queen. and that doesn't sit right. there is something seriously wrong with that picture. and it is musk's plan to take

over the whole world, because he has no alliance in any country. he is a citizen of three countries, so where does his alliance lie? he has no loyalty to anyone but himself. he is not transparent, and when they dismiss all of these government employees we are going to have homelessness. these people are not going to be able to pay their bills. they're going to be all of these people -- and we are not going to get services. we are going to be just like these countries -- and trump has already banned the ap from the white house, so he is already controlling what the news can tell us, just like russia and other communist countries. people need to wake up.

we are going to wake up and have no control over our country, because -- and i don't understand what is going on with the supreme court. they have lost all credibility as far as i'm concerned. host: michael is in new kensington, pennsylvania. good morning, michael. caller: yes. thanks for taking my call. thank you for c-span, and i wanted to comment on my new story of the week is the fact that i'm glad go and some of these other agencies in the trump administration is looking into our government spending. i think we have been on autopilot for a long time. and even ronald reagan only tackled a couple of different

things. whereas trump is really looking at the entirety of the government system that has been invoked upon us. i remember seeing a c-span interview with a lot of these russians after the berlin wall came down, hand they were saying that russia was bankrupt. back in 1950. and here we look at them as such a great threat, and meanwhile they had so many internal problems that they knew even back then that they were unable to continue. and reagan finally put the screws to them and said, you know, pony up or, you know -- anyways, what trump is doing is tremendous, and i think that we are dismantling this entire governmental system whereby the

bureaucracy is running the wheels of power and spending in this country. host: next up is linda in orange, connecticut, on our line for democrats. morning. caller: yes, good morning. my top story of the week is donald trump is absolutely shut down the united states consumer financial protection bureau. this bureau has literally recovered billions of dollars for the american taxpayers. bipartisan. republicans, democrats, independents, whatever. and he has shut it down. he has also shut down the funding for the united states farmers and farmers are now caught in a bind, where they laid out the money based on the

promise that the money was coming to them. of course, they had to front it to grow their crops and get the equipment they needed, and they have frozen those funds. so, the caller before me was very supportive and say, wake up. i'm saying wake up because it is a lot of innocent americans who are going to lose access to things like college loans, a company who literally had to refund millions of dollars to college students and unnecessary interest payments on loans. our farmers are stuck. they are about to lose their farms. so, yes, wake up. wake up. there is a lot going on here that is -- again, we are all focused on a press conference with elon musk and his children, this and that.

people, he is trolling us. we have to look at what is actually happening. and what is happening is hurting americans. consumers it is hurting american farmers. all of these people are stuck in this unprecedented freeze of the government working on behalf of its people. so, yes, we cup, people. host: linda referenced the efforts to shut down the consumer financial protection bureau, putting in axios from a couple of days ago, or four days ago, union sues the trump administration over the cfpb shut down attempt and go jack says. office of management and budget director russell vought was hit with two union lawsuits on sunday. this is last sunday. after he issued directives raising much of the consumer financial protection bureau's work. the cfpb has become the latest target of president trump's

department of government efficiency, threatening a critical oversight agency that safeguards consumers from unfair business practices. employees were informed the agency's headquarters would be closed this week. a move that mirrors how doge shouted the agency for international development headquarters last week. cfpb employed some 1600 people in the fiscal year 2023. jimmy is in maine on our line for independents. caller: i hope you let me ramble on a little bit here. everybody keeps saying, wake up. we are $37 trillion in debt. we just had a president of the united states, joe biden, that told vladimir putin, it depends how far he goes into ukraine, just like the last time they took over crimea. i hope you look this up too. we are paying their salaries and pensions, and the democrats keep calling -- host: sorry, jimmy.

we are paying whose salaries? caller: the people in ukraine. we are paying their pensions and all of a sudden the money dries up and he starts to -- now we are going to have to build his army. now that we have given them weapons and everything they want. let me just say one more thing and i will hang up. america, we are broke. we have only one country. these foreigners come to this country. not all of them. there are a lot of people that come here to work. a come in, they break our laws. they have another country to go back to. it is the black kid in jail, the mexican kids in prison, when they get pulled out where did they go? have nowhere else to go because they get to go back to honduras, they get to go back to el salvador. god knows what is happening to those people once they get back there. they come back, they change their name, and come right back with fake identifications and we have to deal with that all over again.

think god for donald trump. somebody trying to do something for this country. everybody keeps saying wake up. look in the mirror. we are going broke $37 trillion and we are paying other people's country's pensions. host: i was not able to find the reference to the pensions, but i did see a story from cbs news in 2023 about the various ways that usa to ukraine was being used, and among the points they mentioned that the u.s. government is subsidizing small businesses in ukraine, including tatiana's netware company to keep them afloat. american officials from usaid helped her find new customers overseas. in the midst of the war her company is supporting over 70 families. the u.s. government has also bought seeds and fertilizer for ukrainian farmers. america his covering the salaries of ukraine's first

responders. all 57,000 of them. u.s. -- the u.s. funds divers who explode uncleared ammunition from the country's rivers to become safe again for swimming and fishing. this was in 2023 and this article referenced that these funds were from usaid and much of the foreign aid through usaid is on hold right now, so it is unclear if these programs are still ongoing. kane is in green cove springs, florida, on our line for republicans. good morning. caller: yes, thank you for taking my call. i have an idea that we are always trying to pick social security. once somebody look at, a be all the folks that take social security that do not meet -- do not need their money and they would write it off and it would stay in the social security fund. we would not have to worry about the seniors on the social security because they could

write it off at the end -- if they didn't take it they could write it off at the end of the year and a could really help the rich and other people to help us keep social security money in the fund. this is something that has not been looked at and i would like somebody to look at it and see if they could possibly do this for social security. and no more iou's to the government. no more iou's out of social security. thank you so much. host: that is an idea i have not heard before. really interesting. in zephyrhills on our line for democrats. good morning, karma. caller: good morning. i would like to say that after the fall of russia and ukraine became their own independent country they were the third-largest nuclear-armed country in the world. the united states went to them,

ate a treaty with them if they gave up their nuclear arms that we would protect them. now we are saying we are giving them access military supplies, and i would like to say that in the last 50 years that president clinton was the only president who balanced the budget every year, cut waste and fraud from all agencies, fired over 200,000 people without taking over agencies as you are shutting them down. he did it legally through the congress. and was able to achieve what no other president has been able to achieve. i don't understand how people can be happy with the president

shutting things down when everything they are doing is not legal. just like with the usaid. i want to say the shooters wasted fraud, but every president sets the mandates and programs they want in the usaid. if they were going to shut it down they should let the people know that work for them what was going to happen, but they go on the news and call them gangsters and fraudsters, and now those people, american patriots with no partisanship who work for our country are being attacked in the countries they are in, and barely escaping with their

lives. host: at wednesday's white house press briefings press secretary caroline levitt addressed questions related to the idea that many of trump's actions might be causing a constitutional crisis. here was her response to reporters. >> before i take questions i would like to address an extremely dishonest narrative we have seen over the past few days. many outlets in this room have been fear mongering the american people into believing there is a constitutional crisis taking place here at the white house. i've been hearing those words a lot lately. the real constitutional crisis is taking place within our judicial branch, where district court judges in liberal districts across the country are abusing their power to unilaterally block president trump basic executive authority. we believe these judges are acting as judicial activists rather than honest arbiters of the law. and they have issued at least 12

injunctions against this administration in the past 14 days. often without citing any evidence or grounds for their lawsuits. this is part of a larger concerted effort by democrat activists and nothing more than the continuation of the weaponization of justice against president trump. quick newsflash to these liberal judges, who were supporting their obstructionist objectives. americans voted to elect this president, and each injunction is an abuse of the rule of law and an attempt to thwart the will of the people. as the president clearly stated in the oval office yesterday, we will comply with the law and the courts, but we will also continue to seek every legal remedy to ultimately overturn these radical injunctions and ensure president trump's policies can be enacted. host: back to your calls. tom is in newark, ohio on our line for republicans. good morning, tom. caller: thank you for taking my

call, darling. my top story right now -- and i'm confused -- which mcconnell refuses to back trump. peter schweizer, a known author, has repeatedly warned about mcconnell being dangerously compromised by china, because his in-laws make container ships for china. we may investigate his sworn duty to all americans. this is both outrageous and unacceptable. kentucky, wake up and recall fog -face. thank you, darling. host: mighty is in -- marty is in colorado. morning. caller: thanks for taking my call. the most interesting news story from the last week has gotten pretty much no coverage. it was ashley st. clair's friday

valentine's day announcement that five months ago she gave birth to elon musk's latest child. that is interesting politics has never been more interesting, but it is still dreadfully boring. host: i was just looking this up. people magazine has an article about this. author ashley st. clair says she gave birth to elon musk's 13th child five months ago. was there another point you wanted to make the on that, marty? caller: no, i think that covers it. host: ok. angela is in virginia on our line for republicans. good morning. caller: good morning. my top story is, i think it is high time that europe paid for that war in ukraine. i don't even know why we were sending our money over there in the first place.

and then for the media -- mainstream media -- to superimpose putin and trump was the only way they could get support from the left, to pretend somehow putin was trump and he must be defeated by sending billions of dollars ukraine. host: angela, if i could pause you for a moment i want to finish your point that europeans should pay for the war in ukraine. this is from one of the european union's websites, and it lays out you assistance to ukraine in u.s. dollars. this is from january 15. the european union and our 27 member states remain united and determined in our unprecedented support of ukraine. since start of the war the eu and our member states have made available close to $145 billion

in financial, military, humanitarian, and refugee assistance. in february 2020 four european leaders agreed to commit up to 54 billion dollars until 2027 for the ukraine facility to support ukraine's recovery. this will bring our commitments to date to over $174 billion. it goes on to layut other contributions, but that is europe's contribution to ukraine thus far, related to the war. go ahead, angela. caller: yeah, well, you know -- and i think that is exactly how it should go. so why in the world, with all of the problems that we are having here, especially with the emergencies we are having here, that we are even involved in that in the first place? why did the united states even -- why did our name come up in the first place in this nonsense?

war is not nonsense, and i misstated, but i'm just saying that that's europe's problem. and they should definitely take care of it. that is all i have to say about that. thank you very much, dear. host: client is in lawton, oklahoma on our line for democrats. good morning. caller: what's going in the world right now, what's going to happen next is a deadly wound. keep an eye out it's coming. thank you. host: joanne is in yakym, washington. good morning. caller: good morning. i'm concerned about the congress and the senate. it seems like democrats are handcuffed and they have to stay with their party's ideals. i think it should be changed. i think it should go to a secret

ballot so individuals in congress can vote the way they can without being told exactly if you don't something is going to happen to you. and i have been noticing that has been going on. host: ok. that is all the time we have for calls on the top news story of the week for now. coming up next, david daoud of the foundation for defense of democracies will join us to discuss the latest on the israel-hamas cease-fire and president trump's plans for gaza. later peter shin and joe dunn of the national association of community health centers discuss how the governmentwe will be ri. ♪ >> american history tv,

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kid that did not have a lot of opportunities, but i will make sure i bring that forward for all of the kids. >> watch new number -- new members of congress all next week starting at 9:30 p.m. eastern on c-span. ♪ >> democracy, it is not just an idea but a process. a process shaped by leaders elected to the highest offices and entrusted to a select few with guarding its basic principles. it is where debates unfold and decisions are made in the nation's course is charted. democracy in real time. this is your government at work. this is c-span, giving you your democracy, unfiltered. >> washington journal continues. host: welcome back. we are joined by david daoud, a senior fellow at -- here to join

us to talk about the latest in the middle east conflict. can you first describe what the foundation for the defense of democracies is and what you all do and how you are funded. guest: we are a nonpartisan think tank, washington, d.c. base. our guiding star is the u.s. national interest. we are funded by american donors, exclusively. we do not take government funding from foreign governments or the united states governments. we are entirely independent and bipartisan. host: that is unusual for a think tank set not have any foreign funding. guest: it is something we pride ourselves on. host: there was news this morning that three more of the israeli hostages being held by -- were released in exchange for some palestinian prisoners as well. what do you see at this moment as the status of the cease-fire agreement?

guest: still in phase one. january 19 was the start date of the cease-fire agreement. we are looking at 42 days until the start of phase two. so now, there are another two or three batches of hostages that need to be released in exchange for palestinian security prisoners. right now it is holding. there was a hiccup earlier this week that president trump commented on. hamas had claimed that the israelis were not holding up their end of the bargain and tried to stop the release of the hostages that were released today. president trump, as we know, threatened that all hell would break loose if not just a small batch of hostages but all hostages would be released. hamas backed off from its position and resumed the normal course of the cease-fire. that president trump initially called for. the release of all hostages by today, not just a trickle.

he criticized and set it did not make sense. but it seemed like the israeli government -- he went further than the israeli government wanted to be. it seems like we are back to the normal course of the cease-fire agreement. host: now, there have been fears that the cease-fire deal, as you just mentioned, could fall apart. do you see it as in good shape and moving along? mr. patel: -- guest: there are several factors that will keep it on track, tremendous mastic pressure for the released of hostages and not the least of which, humanitarian positions where the people are being held in gaza. most famously, eastern israel and the most famous poster children have been physical children. the infants that were kidnapped on october 7. i think this is a strong image that resonates throughout society. they want to see these people released and we do not know the condition of the children and

their mother. they are our loved ones of people who are still held in gaza and there is tremendous domestic pressure to keep this on track. now what happens if these children are revealed to have been murdered? what happens if hamas tries to pull out of the agreement under whatever excuses it pulls up? that remains to be seen. we know that president trump put on truth social today that he is putting i guess a 7:00 p.m. israel, our time deadline for the release of all has to touch hostages but is putting the ball in israel's court and do what the israelis will do and then back that. the israeli government is sticking to the deal as is rather than trying to shift to where president trump was which was release all of the hostages now or the deal is off. host: there is a "time" article that says "trump bets that he could threaten his way to ending

the israel-hamas war." what is your take on the president's overall strategy to ending this conflict? guest: he prior to even coming and he said he wanted to get this done and get back to the business of making peace deals in the middle east. remember the abraham accords that he shepherded during his first term. that is where he prefers to be. he came on on a very antiwar message, be it with ukraine or russia and in the middle east he wants to make deals. part of what he likes to do is to raise the bar with negotiations. i think what we saw was an attempt to pressure hamas, which has very few bargaining chips besides the hostages that it is holding. we are talking about the state of israel, which is a significant military power and a first-rate military power on its own, backed by the united states saying get this done and keep this on track or there will be hell to pay.

this creates leverage for the israelis having that backing to keep a mouse on track and to keep the deal on track and for president trump to get what he wants out of this, which i think is ultimately a certain degree of peace and quiet in the region. host: speaking of what president trump wants as reported here. "trump double down on his plan to empty gaza. " he has said that he "vows to empty gaza permanently of its more than too many palestinians saying that they would not be allowed to return and suggesting at one point that he might force egypt and jordan to take them in threatening to cut off usaid. he has vowed to turn gaza into what he called a riviera of the middle east and forcibly drive the palestinians from its land" or that is the assessment of several rights groups. what authority if any does he have to do that? guest: that is a good question. i think where president trump is

is he is not saying something we talked about even the previous biden administration, what is the day after. not only have the israelis offered a clear vision or the palestinians. i think president trump is trying to push the envelope. i think the arab states are in a tough position. they probably want to take over gaza in some way or assist gaza. the issue is optics. everything with the palestinian cause is an issue of optics. how are you perceived when you send in arab troops being in -- be it jordanians or some combination and you take over gaza and you fight groups like hamas, how are you perceived among your own population? are you perceived as policing gaza or the palestinian cause to protect israel? especially if you have to clash with palestinian military groups. are you looked at as if you are protecting the israelis.

now what happens when the president of the united states as i want to expel all palestinians. then that same move suddenly looks like you are saving the palestinians and keeping them on their land rather than entering to protect israel from palestinians. it shifts the dynamic and we saw with the king of jordan and the meeting that he had. the king said we had a plan that is being put together with egypt and jordan. and we are formulating a plan. suddenly we are seeing movement from the arab side to say, do not need this and we do not need to expel these palestinians, there is an arab plan on the table and give us some time. host: let us look at a clip of that meeting at the white house on tuesday where the king of jordan was reiterating his desire for a plan for gaza that satisfies all parties involved. [video clip] >> we have to keep in mind that there is a plan from egypt and the arab countries. we have been invited to discussions.

i think the report is how -- the point is how do we make this in a way -- work in a way that is good for everybody. we have to work in the best interests of the united states, the people in the region and my people of jordan and we will have some interesting discussions today. one of the things we can do right away is take 2000 children that are either orphan children or in a very ill state as quickly as possible and then wait for the egyptians to present the plan on how we can work to work on the gaza challenges. >> excuse me. wait, just please. i did not know, 2000 children with cancer or other problems. and that is really a beautiful gesture. that is really good and we appreciate it. and we will be working on the rest with egypt. i think, you will see some great project and with jordan you will

see some great progress. and then we will have some others helping. and then we have some others that are high-level helping. it is not a complex thing to do. with the united states being in control of that piece of land, a fairly large piece of land. you will have stability in the middle east for the first time. -- civility in the middle east for the first time. the people living in gaza will be living beautifully in another location and safely. they will not be killed and murdered and having to leave every 10 years. it has been nothing but trouble. everybody is being killed and robbed. it is like living in hell. and they are going to end up having a great home. great families that do not have to get mugged and killed and beaten up and harassed by hamas and everybody else. and i know that we will be able to work something. and what you just said about the

2000 is fantastic and so beautiful. that is music to my ears. but we will be able to work something and we need to work something also with, i believe not 100%, but 99% we will work out something with egypt. [end video clip] host: american presidents have been trying for generations to resolve this conflict. do you have a sense that something will be different? guest: clearly. i think president trump all about different. he has broken the mold on the israeli-arab peace process even in his first term. the orthodoxy is that you start with israeli and palestinian peace and that spreads out. the abraham accords were the inversion. start with the gulf states and you move with these moderate arab states towards peace between israel and the palestinians. i think also this proposal of taking over gaza. gaza is not a sovereign territory.

its legal status is questionable. if there is not a sovereign state that can claim it for certainty, there is no palestinian state that can claim it for certainty. if president trump exploits that ambiguity to put american troops on the ground and to somehow create american control over gaza, that will be a game changer. even if we go back to this is a negotiation tactic, this is a game changer. he is done with the orc phenoxy. he said i am watching this conflict for decades and nothing has moved. host: just switching gears a little bit to the west bank. what have the conditions been like they are lebanon since the cease-fire. guest: the west bank since the cease-fire there have been counterterrorism ongoing operations not just since october 7 but it has been going on for years even under previous israeli governments. there was the wave breaker

operation that was there and now we have sub -- subsequent operations. we have had warnings from the head of the israeli fbi saying that even though the number of palestinian terrorist attacks in the west frank has decreased the sophistication have increased and the lethality has increased. that is precipitating a counterterrorism operations that we are seeing. and then shifting to lebanon. there has been a cease-fire since november 27 and extended till february 18. the deadline for three elite -- for israeli withdrawal. israeli is clearing operations in areas under its control, most daily operations to destroy hezbollah under israeli control. but we haven't seen movement by the lebanese government to live up to its end of the cease-fire agreement which does not just require the lebanese armed

forces to take over in areas that the israelis are vacating, but also to dismantle hezbollah infrastructure in those areas and to secure lebanon's borders against the entry of materiel, weapons and funds that would help hezbollah regenerate. we have seen equivocation from the lebanese and we see statements, unofficial statements from the prime minister singh the cease-fire agreement applies to all of lebanon but he is ambiguous about how it will be done. then we see the speaker of parliament, one of lebanon's largest politicians and hezbollah's guardian saying. and they say south of the river will have the cease-fire agreement applies. north, they will take the matter to internal lebanese dialogue and this is hezbollah being part of this dialogue because i have massive support from the shia population. they are political party and

they were part of the government. they have ministers in the new government that they have approved of. so, they will be part of the dialogue about what happens to has below weapons. call me skeptical, but people tend not to sign their own self-destruction. i do not think has below will do that. we are seeing where a situation where the israelis are acting in south lebanon and asking for an extension because we are not seeing the lebanese acting in real time or the willingness to act. more of the same old we have seen since 2006 where the lebanese are saying trust us and things have changed. and when you look at things on the ground they have not. host: before we go to calls, could you give us an overview of what you are watching in the coming days and weeks and what concerns our -- that you have about coming next? guest: my main focus is has below and lebanon. -- has below --lebanon.

monitoring lebanese action against the financiers and suppliers, namely iran. we have seen the lebanese, for example block and airflight landing in beirut. this is an airline that was sanctioned and it is known to smuggle weapons. this is a cosmetic action. it came the day that the arab spokesman for the idf said the international airport was being used to resupply hezbollah. so, the lebanese civilian air director comes out and says we are stopping these flights to change security protocols but only until february 18. but the flights are only blocked until february 18 which is a timetable for israeli withdrawal. they are trying to get from cease-fire to permanent end of hostilities so that lebanon can go back to its previous equivocation. that is what i am watching and that is what we all need to watch because all of this that

we are seeing, it with gaza or yemen, hezbollah is the tip of the spear through the iranian regime. if hezbollah regenerates we will end up in this situation again in lebanon, gaza, the west bank in a decade. host: we are ready to take your questions for david daoud of the foundation for defense of democracies. the line for republicans, 202-748-8001. democrats, 202-748-8000. independents, 202-748-8002. we will start with our independent line with michael in plainfield, illinois. good morning michael. caller: good morning and i hope that you will allow me to develop my point because i am disappointed in c-span. this problem in gaza started in 1948. it did not start just last year.

and this gentleman claims to be an expert. well, you just had a piece on where 2000 children might be allowed to leave the area because they have cancer. maybe if we intervene sooner and did not allow israel to bomb every hospital into dust in gaza, those children could be treated there. if we are going to solve the problem, we have to be realistic. the palestinians deserve a separate, independent state. you have to put pressure on israel to withdraw from the west bank. and actually let these people alone. that is going to solve the problem. this gentleman, unfortunately, i do not think is aware of the history. that this started in 1948, not last year. please respond. guest: i am acutely aware of the

history of the fact and i can give a lesson on it. in terms of the gaza hospitals, these hospitals were not merely severely -- civilian installations. normally and i will put on my lawyer had, my expertise is in the art -- as in the laws of armed conflicts, hospitals are immune during conflict from being targeted. you have to intentionally and deliberately for no other purpose hit the hospital. what happens when a hospital is used for military purposes, as we have seen and the israelis have demonstrated through video after video, uncovering weapons caches and underground tunnels? suddenly they lose their immunity. and if these hospitals have been transformed into military installations then that is on hamas to do so. when it comes to the west bank, what the solution will be to the

israeli-palestinian conflict, some say two state and some say one state solution. while the israelis have been many offers, and talk about the sincerity there have been authors on the table. take you back to 2000 camp david if you want to talk about history. they offered to split jerusalem. israeli offers to split jerusalem. that is almost anathema because of the connection of the jewish

people to jerusalem. and the palestinians walked away. there was another deal in 2008 at the prime minister had offered. also, the president did not even respond. there have been milestones along this conflict where there have been authors to create a palestinian state and we want to be finished with the conflict and it has not been accepted by the other side. on the israeli side, it was between 2000 and 2005, a wave of terrorist that hit israel. and the lack of movement and the lack of demonstration and the desire of peace for the other side, the israeli will to continue compromising has eroded. an october 7 has put an end to that. and all of the -- for the time being at least. and that is totally natural. we can talk about the radicalization but we do not talk about the impact of the

terrorist on israelis as well. host: because the previous caller referenced the fx -- the expertise of our guest, i will just give a little bit of the background. in addition to a senior fellow at the foundation for defense of democracies, previously he has been a nonresident fellow at the atlantic council, the director of israel, lebanon and syria research, a research analyst at the foundation for defense of democracies and worked as a staff member on capitol hill providing analysis on matters related to the middle east, israel and iran. he also holds a bachelor's degree in government and history and also a law degree from suffolk university. so that is some of the background information about our guest today. back to your calls. sam is in hillsdale, michigan on the line for democrats. good morning. caller: hello. it is my position that trump

wants gaza to build a sandals for the ultra wit -- for the ultrarich. and down the road, the second suez canal. and he wants the crimea for the same thing. he wants to sell the ukraine business so he can build a playground and crimea. so he has a resort on the red sea and the mediterranean. thanks you for taking my call. host: there is no question. let us go to earl on the line for republicans. good morning. caller: good morning and thank you for taking my call. my question is this, why do people think that the two state

solution is possible? excuse me. because the people in iran who backed the terror bank -- the terrorist organizations in yemen, gaza and lebanon. why do people think that because of that, why do people think that there is a two state solution possible? thank you for taking my call. guest: i think that is a good question and that is the crux of the problem because of the widespread terrorism in the areas. let us talk about the west bank. because if it is the two state solution it is the west bank and israel and gaza but it gave up. if you look at the west bank, it is topographically much higher than the center of israel. the center of israel is the seat of government and it is basically new york and washington, d.c. combined. it is the heart of the nation.

if you were to to concede the high ground overlooking tel aviv and jerusalem you would not need sophisticated weapons to shut down israeli life and the economy, you would need some sniper wife -- rifles and mortars. this is the crux of the problem and the trepidation that israelis have about making concessions. if you were to see that for a palestinian authority -- cede that to a palestinian authority that would turn the territory against israel to continue the war, or if the palestinian authority like we saw in gaza is not able to hold that territory entirely, losing it to hamas, or if we have a lebanon situation in the west bank, this would shut down israeli life. i will take you to a 2018 paper that was written that talks about concessions in israel and

concedes that there a possibility that what could emerge in the west bank is a situation that resembles south lebanon where you might have a palestinian authority and you have all of these groups, all of these offshoots like lion's den that the palestinian authority is not able to control. from there you could have a hezbollah situation in a strategically critical territory but it would not be similar to south lebanon in fact that south lebanon overlooks galilee which has critical infrastructure but it is not the beating pulse and it is not the capital and it is not the main city or the main population center that would be able to be set -- not shut down with very sophisticated weapons but simple weapons. host: tony in pennsylvania on the line for independents. caller: good morning. i am concerned about this guest. in general, the c-span guests that come from think tanks generally you say that you know,

there are small donations and funding when in fact these are sort of alien air and very wealthy points of view. i am concerned that i haven't heard a palestinian point of view or perspective. i hear a lot of guests on the israel-hamas cosmic -- conflict and so this guest is sort of going unopposed. i think he has cherry picking facts and manipulating, and largely he is dishonest. the instrument -- the international court has called what is happening here genocide and that was under joe biden and the media -- and the democrats with the media healthy. under trump it sounds like more ethnic cleansing and will force people from their land. there is no war. one side has a military and one side does not. one side is people being slaughtered. it is important to go back like the independent caller said. this began in 1948.

and it has been a steady land by israel. the people in palestine, they had an organization called the plo, so israel did not want to work with them so they helped create hamas. and if you do not know the history, and americans rarely know the history because they listen to people like this. these think tanks are garbage, it is dark money and lies. host: you have made quite a few accusations and i will let him respond. guest: i welcome the guest's opinion. the icj has not what is called -- has not called what is happening a genocide. you can listen to the former president of the icj giving an interview i think on bbc, they did not say what was happening was plausible genocide. they said that there are plausible rights that are potentially being affected. that is a very different question. if we want to go back to the history of the plo, which was a

terrorist organization which is why the israelis refused to deal with it. you know, the israeli set the bar for not negotiating with terrorists. it was formed in 1964 prior to the onset of the israeli control to the west bank and gaza until 2005. its objective was the elimination of the state of israel and not compromise. if we are talking about the history or want to go back to 1948. israel was founded by the international community. there was the league of nations mandate for palestine given to the british with the express creation of a jewish national home which officials have said was for the express purpose of creating a jewish state in the territory that was known as palestine. and the teletype -- territory was demarcated and delineated. there is an ethnic conflict going on. two peoples in that land. and how you divide up that

territory requires compromise because neither side is going anywhere. what does not help, actually are the opinions that delegitimize one side's rights to that land and rights to national self-determination on that land, and simply taking the narrative of the other side hook, line, and sinker without providing any nuance or facts. slogans like genocide and ethnic cleansing, when the facts on the ground do not support that. host: christopher in michigan on the line for democrats. good morning. caller: good morning. i would like to thank brian lamb and ms. swain and all of the great hosts at c-span. you guys do a wonderful job. as it relates to the topic at hand. i do not know really if decades matter in terms of the history. when you consider the millennia

of concerns and problems that this theory has brought. you go back to the old testament, cain and abel. host: i would like to keep it to the modern conflict. did you have a question? caller: well, it is more of a statement. i am concerned about the floor. meaning, president trump has the floor now. and he has rendered an idea out of the box. i am a democrat and as much as i might dislike the 90 count fell in indicted per session felon -- felon, indicted person and rape that trump is accused of, this idea is out-of-the-box thinking. and that is what has to be done

now. i believe the two state solution , it is not a solution now. it is not. they will not get along. and something else has to be done. host: we have heard some officials saying that the idea of a two state solution is no longer realistic. what do you think? guest: i think what president trump said during his first term still holds. it is up to the parties to decide. if one party wants the solution or one party wants any solution and the other does not we do not have a solution. given we are in a state where the israeli appetite for territorial concession is not there anymore. we have seen the slow death of the israeli left under waves of palestinian terrorism going back. when you go from the euphoria of the 1990's and the oslo accords when you talk to the average israeli, they thought it would be eating hummus in beirut within months.

this was done and they were finally done. that euphoria translates into the suicide bombings of the 2000's. and then kind of the end was in october 7. the israeli left, and the center have not offered a vision for peace and achieving a two state solution that have caught up with the times. and on the other hand a palestinian unwillingness to call a final end to the conflict either through a two state solution and otherwise. we have seen deals that would either require no end to the conflict but a staging point or one that would require the return of millions of palestinian refugees from the 1948 war to israel which would turn the state to a palestinian majority which is not a solution. we have not seen this sort of two states for two people side and then the erosion of that to the point where right now i

think talk of a solution is premature. i want to make a point and you notice going back to ancient history, going back into history as the last two callers have talked about. one wants to go back to 1948 and the other wants to go back to the bible. this does not help us we are here in february of 2025. let us start looking forward about what is realistic instead of sinking these two peoples in the grievances of the past where everyone can debate on who is right until the end of time and you have innocence on both sides that are suffering and will continue to suffer in the endless war if all that is done moving forward is to sit there and try to justify who is better based on the past 100 years, 76 years and thousand years. it is not a productive way to move forward. host: john in louisiana on the line for republicans. good morning. caller: yes. the thing to me on this is the hostages have to be released.

not anything else can get done until that happens. and this dribbling and dribbling along, it is just prolonging something. and i do not know. they need to just -- ok. they are releasing all of the israeli hostages, which they are now. hamas do the same thing, you will have to even though they are not really hostages. a lot of them are criminal elements. until that happens, so it should just be, i do not know. it is driving me crazy that it has gone this long. host: and follow-up points? guest: i think he is echoing president trump that this does not make sense. at the same time what makes sense and what is realistic are two separate things. i think if there were a magic

wand or a magic solution to solving the conflict, to ending this war permanently, i would assume or hope that responsible leadership would take it. unfortunately there isn't, you have to deal with what is realistic. what is realistic is a trickle of three or four hostages a week with the release of i think today was 369 palestinian security prisoners, 36 of whom were convicted to life sentences for several murderers. -- murders. that is not the idea where you -- that is not an ideal situation where you exchange innocent people for people with blood on their hands. and that is the only thing realistically possible. host: kathleen on the line for democrats. good morning. caller: good morning and i so appreciate washington journal. you said history is not important, but it is incredibly important. host: he did not say history was not important. he said going so far back was

not productive for the modern-day conversation. go ahead. caller: i hope you object to when others are making your objection is a really odd timing quite frankly. but, understanding history is really critical in regard to this circumstance and how we got to where we are at. and also the history of the u.s.. any country's history is really important to understand so i disagree. in regard to moving forward. the arab league, people can go watch the best coverage. i am a media junkie, quite frankly in my 70's. bbc, pbs, washington journal you are not having guests from the other perspective like norman finkelstein or nora. so in regard to the icj rulings

in regard to determining that this indeed has been a genocide and we have been able to see it with her eyes. and so, what do you think about the icj's ruling? people can google that, the international criminal court as well as icc's rulings on galante and netanyahu being war criminals in regards to starving people. we have been able to see the genocide in front of our eyes. talk about those things as well as the endless fast of internationally recognized palestinian land in the west bank. israel has been incredibly aggressive. and they do have the weapons. talk about that issue as well as well as the arab league. all of the arab leaders are saying no way are palestinians going to be removed. they will not go along with it. talk about that as well, please? guest: i am not sure if there is a question.

i never said history was not relevant and i said focusing obsessively is not productive. we can go into history endlessly and the point i was trying to make is to score -- to the store -- score historical points at the point of moving forward is not productive. the icj and icc has not ruled anything. they have issued arrest warrants against prime minister netanyahu. this is not the same as a conviction. even whatever or however you view those arrest warrants. the icj is similar. there has been no final ruling on that. host: let us just pause on the icj ruling which was from january of last year and i will read a story from npr. "a top u.n. court as a gaza genocide is plausible but does not order a cease-fire. the international court of justice has found it plausible that israel has committed acts that violate the genocide convention. in a provisional order delivered by the court's president, the

court said israel must assure with immediate effect that its forces do not commit any of the acts prohibit a by the convention. the court cannot make a final determination right now on whether israel is guilty of genocide. but she said given the deteriorating situation in gaza, the court has jurisdiction to order measures to protect gaza's population from further risk of genocide." and that is january of last year. guest: she gave a subsequent interview when she said those headlines were misquoting her. she was not saying there is a plausible risk of genocide. this is in her own words and you can view them in the interview subsidence -- subsequently that she gave. what has happened is that there has been a hearing brought to the icj and these processes take years. and these processes take years. so there has been no definitive determination or a final ruling because most people who commit what is war crime or is not a

war crime do not understand how the laws of on conflict work and what they permit and do not permit. host: john in atlantic, iowa on the line for republicans. good morning. caller: hello. i had two questions. but i just wanted your thoughts on whether the palestinians have a right to sovereign citizenship, and the second question is whether you agree with you know the statement that there has never been a pet sovereign palestinian authority that explicitly defined who is a palestinian. that is all. guest: let us start with -- let us break that down. the question of whether palestinians have a right to sovereignty. all peoples and this is international law, have a right to self-determination. as far as they are a people under the criteria, they qualify for self-determination and they

are entitled. the question is whether self-determination necessarily equals independence. when you look at the quebec case from canada and putting on my lawyer hat. self-determination does not always need to equal independence. in that case, the supreme court of canada ruled that because the quebequais rights were guaranteed to the mechanisms of state of canada and the constitution of canada that self-determination was fulfilled to the context of the canadian state. so they have a preference for maintaining the existing borders of states in the interest of stability. imagine if every day peoples started shifting borders as peoples arose. there is an interest in preference for maintaining the existing borders of states, if you can fulfill your right to self-determination within those existing borders and within the existing state. then you are not entitled to

self-determination as independent from the existing state. whether there has ever been a sovereign palestinian entity is what the caller was asking, there has not been. the question is, and i go back to prime minister in 2002 was the first to break from the orthodoxy. this was at a teachers conference in 2001 where he said i am going to give the palestinians what the arabs nor turks gave them, a sovereign state. this statement as a matter of history true, there has never been a sovereign state of palestine within the borders claimed either by the pro-palestine movement or in the smaller borders that have been delineated in a potential two state solution. there has been a british mandate for palestine which existed and defined the borders of palestine to israel and the west bank.

that was not a sovereign state but a mandatory territory that the british were given for the purpose of turning the territory into a jewish national home. host: that is all the time we have today. thank you so much to the senior fellow at the foundation for defense of democracies. really appreciate your time. and coming up next, we are going to hear from peter shin and joe dunn of the national association of community health centers and they will join us to discuss how the government funding freeze is impacting community health centers. first, starting on monday you will be able to watch our new series with new members of congress. republicans and democrats speaking about their early lives, careers, families and why they decided to watch for -- to run for office. watch new members beginning at 9:30 p.m. eastern on c-span. here is a preview. >> i grew up on a 1000 acre

cattle ranch outside of abilene. we raised angus beef cows. so then, ever since i can remember, working cows, building fences, driving tractors and doing everything you would expect to do on a thousand acre cattle ranch. i cannot remember a time in my life when i did not have a time growing up. so i grew up in a different environment, very unique in rural west texas. but it is god's country. >> what did those teach you? >> you learn the value of the dollar immediately. i was getting paid six dollars an hour in kindergarten whenever i was working on the ranch. i was helping my dad do whatever he needed to do. but you learn the value of the dollar and not -- and how to work hard and long. >> one of the first two women, claire wilson and i were elected the same year is a testament to the fact that there were gaps in knowledge among the caucus before we joined. folks had had a lot of different

experiences on the caucus, but they had not grown up as a queer woman in washington state. and it matters that we bring our voices and neighbors voices with us into the halls of power because we get to shape legislation whether through amendment or educating our colleagues about the way we talk about community that makes folks and -- in the community seen, heard, and respected. we have passed a lot of lgbtq protections in the legislature of washington during the first trump administration and in advance of this one. and now i am bringing those voices and experiences with me to keep fighting for all of our communities. >> that big family is to a huge advantage of covering a big state because i have siblings living in all corners of the state so everywhere i go i have a free place to stay. that is a huge advantage. i really am a product of my state. i was born in the western part

of north dakota. my parents were children of the great depression and they nearly starved to death in the prairies of western north dakota in the dirty 30's when there was literally no rain for a decade and as farmers that is a tough thing to get through. they did. their families persisted and they got through that. and they got educated and we after college. my mom and dad back in the far western part of the state. they had their eight kids, all in that part of the state and then started to raise them. i was fairly young, i was about five. then we moved all the way to the eastern part of the state into fargo. and i spent my formative years there and lived there until i got into high school. and then we moved and planted in the middle of the state. i have literally covered all parts of the state in growing up. and you know, being one of eight kids, it is pretty tough to

spoil that many kids. we had a lot of expectations for us brought on by my parents, who again were very conservative minded folks. >> as the first latino woman ever elected in the state of new jersey to represent a congressional district, i am truly proud, not only of my roots and you know, where i come from. i am also proud to be able to be a voice for those that really did not have a voice. so, i am happy to be able to represent. but it also comes with a huge amount of responsibility. because i want to make sure that when you use your voice, you are using it to ensure that it is one that helps to create the opportunity for so many people. i do not just believe that any one person will represent any one group. i represent the entire new jersey ninth congressional

district. but, i am truly proud of my roots and my upbringing and being a latina and puerto rican is something i am proud of. >> my most formative experience was serving as a caregiver to the person who would become my coverage -- my husband during his battle against cancer. for anyone who has been diagnosed with cancer particularly in your 20's, you know it is like a punch in the gut unlike anything you have experienced. you never expect to hear that word at such a young age. but, from those first moments after the diagnosis, andy and i knew how lucky we were. we knew how lucky it was that he would have health insurance that would save his life and how lucky we were to have flexibility with our jobs that allowed him to focus on trying to get better and me to focus on the full-time job of caring for him, of loving him and marrying him, and eventually when he

found out that the cancer was terminal was to walk him to his passing. i decided to run to for office because i do not believe in delaware, or in the united states in the wealthiest and most developed nation on earth at that time and ability to get here should not be locked but the law of the land. host: welcome back we are joined by two gas from the national association of community health centers. peter shin is the chief science officer. good morning. and joe dunn is the chief policy officer. thank you for joining us. you are here to talk to us about community health centers. first of all, talk about the national association of community health centers, your mission and how you are funded. guest: thank you for having us. we are both at the national association of community health centers. that is the trade association for community health centers across the country for over 50 years. nac has been in here for policy

-- for policy and advocacy but also for ensuring that they have the services that they need for technical assistance to be the best providers for the patients. right now it has grown to over 32.5 million patients rely on community health centers. host: for people who do not know , what is a community health center and how is it different? guest: share. the community health centers are a private nonprofit clinical practices. we are not a free clinic and we are not a federal program, for example. we are spread largely in 15,000 communities. we are almost in every congressional district. there are about 1500 organizations that manage those sites. as we mentioned, we serve one in 10 americans right now.

but, really our signature spot is in federally designated underserved communities where poverty is very high. and because of poverty being high, we have high needs, patients that have very complex medical, behavioral, dental, vision and social needs. one of the conditions for receiving what we call the federal health center grant program is being in those areas and also we are required to see all patients regardless of their ability to pay. and as i mentioned before, we are not a free clinic. we do charge, a sliding fee based on what they are able to pay. and probably one of the biggest innovations about the health centers is that it is patient run. the governing boards are 51% patients themselves and so we are very much held accountable to the patient experience and outcomes and making sure that

all of the resources available are meant for the community. host: how might a regular patient know if they are rocking -- walking into a immunity or -- eight clinic or hospital that is a community health center? guest: we necessarily do not have community health center in the name. we have unity health care, which is the largest health center in d.c.. you can go to their website, the health resources and services administration that oversees the health center grant program. i think it is called fin dahealthcenter.hrsa.gov. host: joe, he has mentioned the grants twice. can you talk about how federal funding relates to community health centers? guest: it is critical. we see all patients and that can be roughly 20% of the patients

are uninsured so the grant goes to help support that. about 50% are on medicaid. 10% on medicare. it is a one stop shop for a full spectrum of a family. multi-generation so everything from birth to elderly patients. this primary care model along with the behavioral health and oral health and other kind of support services like transportation really has demonstrated over time that it saves the government money through reducing utilization or use of emergency departments and hospitalization, by preventing and managing disease. host: is all of the funding coming from the federal government? guest: there are some other federal grants sides the ones that peter mentioned. and in they get reimbursement from federal programs. and then we have 20% of the patient population is commercial

or employer-sponsored health care so that is the private insurance market. host: just to go back to the website you are referencing, it is indeed findahealth center.hrsa.gov which allows you to enter your location to find a community health center. and that is available. last month the trump administration issued and then rescinded a spending freeze that included many federal loans and grants. what impact has that hat on community health centers? guest: i will start. there was initially a lot of concern. in the news, there were some articles around potential layoffs or closures. and i think while that has been resolved and the funding is available, it demonstrated that there is a lack of cushion in the sense -- in the system. the health centers operate on razor thin margins.

they really need the federal dollars and the certainty of those dollars and it a larger point. we have two big deadlines coming up in mid-march and the end of march for federal funding. health centers get about $6 billion a year from the federal government through this grant program. and it is unclear about what will happen without money. the fortunate thing is that we have deep and wide bipartisan support. that funding has been continued and expanded list -- expanded regardless of the administration. under the first-round administration that grew and under previous administrations it has grown. and so, we really believe that we are well-positioned to serve and be a solution for this. and we hope that congress will move on this quickly. host: there is a story from vermont public media from february 4, when the freeze was still effective -- in effect. "virginia community health

centers close over federal funding access." that was even despite the paws of the freeze at that point. it says "half of virginia's community health centers were cut off from federal grant money forcing some to stop providing certain services and others to close branches." and that was even after it was pause. since then there have been court orders. a judge found that the trump administration violated that court order to pause the funding freeze and has continued to improperly freeze some federal funds and is refusing disbursement of some federally appropriated funds. i wonder if you can talk about what impact you heard from your members about what this funding frees actually did in real time, and the long-term implications of these disruptions and payments might be. guest: i think just to be frank, it has caused panic for a lot of the health centers, as they are

operating on very thin margins. last year was about 2%. this year in most of the health centers on average will be in the negative. about two -- two in five only have 90 days of cash on hand. so, they are really operating in terms of a high uncertainty. especially as we are thinking about coming you know, how do we prepare for what may be coming down in terms of the federal funding? and i think, sort of, plans to expand care. as i mentioned before, we are serving one in 10 right now. we are thinking about how the health centers will grow to serving one in three health centers. as we know, has been growing since the 1960's, when the first health centers were established. and right now what we are trying to think about is, how do we get to the places that there is high need? our growth has to follow that trajectory with 100 million

americans without access to care. we are trying to get that one in three press the country. host: there is a story here in the hill and widely reported elsewhere that the gop plan for reconciliation, which would be there -- their effort to impact funding as well as some other pieces of legislation includes potential cuts to medicaid. here in the hill the gop leaders have downplayed the medicare cuts as they seek to trillion dollars in savings. speaker mike johnson and the majority leader steve scalise saw to reassure the public and potential jittery members of their own caucuses that the medicaid changes under discussion include work requirements and fraud reduction, not just to cuts such as lowering the federal match from medicaid extent -- medicaid expansion and states or instituting a cap. how worried are you about potential cuts to medicaid and how might that affect community health centers? guest: fortunately we had 2000

people last week in d.c. for our national conference. we really wanted to focus in on educating members of congress on the value of medicaid to the health centers and their patients. it is 50% of the patients that we see. it is about 40% of the revenue, so this is a significant concern, as we think of this. but at the same time it is early on in the process and we have strong support on both sides of the aisle and we want to continue to work with policymakers to come and know, articulate how any policy changes what impact communities across the country. as peter mentioned, we serve one in 10 across the country, but it is even higher in rural america. one in five americans in rural america get access to care at a community health center. some states, montt and west virginia, it is one in three individuals. any kind of substantial changes

would have an impact, but we believe because of our widespread support and along with the understanding that the members of congress have about the important role of health centers that we will be able to talk to them throughout this process. guest: can i just add that we find the health centers and the research has shown health centers are highly effective and highly efficient. so, as they are looking for cuts and thinking about what kind of ramifications that might have, i mean, the health centers themselves is critical in terms of the high needs in rural america. but we also are relatively cheap compared to other centers. we tend to be 24% cheaper, and less costly for -- compared to out patient clinics, for example. we save about $40 billion in medicaid. about $60 billion across the health system.

so, you know, for how the ramifications for medicaid cuts and how it filters down to health centers and how that will impact efficiency and making sure the taxpayers are getting what they need out of this program, and height of what we do, i think it is going to be a critical consideration we should have in the calculations. host: in the midst of many of the rapidfire activities of the trump administration one of the things that has happened is that many health agency reports and online posts seem to have gone off-line. there is reporting in the associated press saying the trump administration has put a freeze on many federal health agency communications with the public. this was through the end of january, and some of those have gone back up since then. but there was an immediate pause on quite a few pieces of data. some of that still has not come back online. i wonder if that has affected you all at all?

guest: yeah, i mean, one of the things about the health center program planned for health centers that receive those grants is that as part of the eligibility for those grants you have to report annually. on all of the expenditures, on all of the number of patients we serve so that the program itself finds the grant program to be effective in its use. we are going after grants and trying to showcase advocacy, for example. we rely on getting that data, and then for patients trying to find a health center, i think for a while the find a health center site was down. so how do they find access to those clinic sites as well? guest: i would add that health centers are compliant with the federal grant they get. we understand there is going to

be a transition with the initiation and review of some of the communications and things like that. thankfully a lot of that is back up, they want to just understand what the rules of the road are, and that is the important thing as we think of communications with the agency, the regulator who oversees the grants, to understand what their expectations are, and that is where the health centers really just have that bidirectional communication. that is why it is so important. host: it's get to some questions from callers. our number for republicans, (202) 748-8001. for democrats, (202) 748-8000. independents at (202) 748-8002. and we have a special line for health care workers. if you are a health care worker, (202) 748-8003. let's start with nelson in perm burke pines, florida on our line for republicans. caller: good morning.

can you will hear me ok? host: yes. caller: great. gentlemen, i support the concept of community health centers. they are very important. i think the problem is the dependency that community health centers have taken with the federal government. the fraud and mismanagement of funds that comes from washington is pretty clear as to what is going on. i am a retired firefighter/paramedic and in the 1980's i dealt quite a bit with community -- private community health centers started by immigrant organizations. mostly cuban-americans. and the members would pay the population that were members of it would pay a monthly fee for their entire family and they were taking care of.

all of those facilities have now disappeared because federal government has come in and all of those former organizations have now transferred the medicare advantage programs only. so the families are now left out and only the elderly are participating in that. your thoughts on whatever happened to federalism and the states taking up responsibility to assist organizations like yours? thank you, gentlemen. guest: thank you so much, nelson. early interesting question there. i was not familiar with some of the work maybe you were talking about down in florida with the private, kind of, health clinics, but i will say that health centers do get state dollars. and are supported by the states. they really meet a need, and as

my colleague mentioned, they are really locally-driven and governed. these are patients who are serving on the board and really are directing quite the focus is. if there is a specific need for behavior health in the community that's where they bring the direction toward, or something around oral health, dental if there is a particular need there. while we understand there are many players in the health care system, we both really believe health centers are an incredibly efficient program that has seen incredible results in terms of reducing those longer-term costs to medicaid and medicare by having that primary care focus. host: let's hear from jeff in crofton, nebraska on our line for republicans. good morning, jeff. caller: listen, do you all cover abortions?

and do you cover illegal immigrants if they come in? do they see illegal immigrants? are they paying for all of that? and if you are spending $30 billion a year on health care coverage, is that all? or do we need to look for hidden money like we are everywhere else? thanks. guest: thank you, jeff. health centers do not provide abortion services with federal funding, per the federal law. they are very compliant on that. in terms of immigration, health centers are really focused around treating the patients. so, they are not required -- not allowed -- to ask about immigration status. it is something we are focusing in on, the importance of what the patient needs. as you mentioned, the funding, we are so efficient, right? if you think of 1% of federal

health care spend goes to health centers, but we serve 10% of the nation's population, and have the strong track record of reducing costs over time. that is where we really believe we are part of the solution as this new focus and new administration is coming in looking for efficiencies. we believe we are very well-positioned to be part of a solution. host: just for some additional information, jeff, it doesn't quite answer your question about immigration, but kff, a health policy polling and news side, does have some data about the race and ethnicity of health center patients in urban and rural settings. this is based on 2023 numbers. 37% of the patients seen nationally by these health centers are white. what he percent are hispanic. 70% black. and 4% asian.

3% other. that looks very different in urban versus rural areas, particularly bigger gaps in rural settings, where 61% of the folks seen are white versus 24% hispanic and 10% black. guest: that's right. i mean, two thirds of our health center patients are ethnically diverse. and as joe mentioned, by law we are, as i mentioned at the top of the show, we had to serve everyone regardless of their income. that is really our job. regardless of their insurance card. you know, we had to see the patients as they come in. guest: as peter mentioned, there is a very large health center in the district called unity. we are in big cities, small towns. over last summer i went to alaska and saw that the mobile

unit that the health center uses is a snow machine because literally the patient's care for our in small villages that are only accessible by snowmachine. this is the diversity of the country, reflected in our patients, and ultimately the end result is we save money, we save lives through this unique primary care model. host: michael is in indianapolis, indiana and is a health care worker. good morning, michael. caller: thank you for taking my call. first i want to complement the community health centers for the work they have done. i am retired. they do great work. looking at the big picture our federal government has almost $37 trillion of debt. we run a $2 trillion annual deficit. i think the problems we have with supporting community health centers at a federal level are

that we are going to go bankrupt at the federal government level. what programs do they think they can move to states successfully going forward so that we do not have to deal with our whole country in debt, ruining our country going forward? guest: maybe i would just jump in. thank you, michael, for your service in the health care field, and the complement there. you know, one of the things that the congressional budget office last year came up with was investments in health centers to save money over the long term. as you know, by reducing emergency department and hospitalizations there is great statistics we have on our website about managing that diabetes. so, to avoid dialysis later on or a kidney transplant, or dealing with hypertension to avoid that major cardiac event. so, it is very similar data that

has been shown out by researchers and then the federal government with the congressional budget office. that investments in health centers do save the federal taxpayer over time. guest: i will just add, in terms of the overall health care pie, i mean, secretary kennedy has also talked about shifting more in terms of americare. you cannot bend the cost curve without primary care. we are focused in terms of preventive medicine, meaning we are trying to offset those high cost chronic illnesses or outcomes downstream. i think in terms of how we shift toward greater investments -- as joe mentioned, health center spending only represents 1% of that total spend. primary care only represents about 5%. if we can double that, triple that, i think that gets us to where we really need to go in

terms of ending that cost curve. host: george is in tennessee on our line for democrats. good morning. caller: good morning. i would like to ask both gentlemen, the old memorial hospital's, funded, i'm assuming, by grants, and donations, and they are being bought up by for profit. what effect does the for-profit -- and in this area we have a huge limit. out of a five star rating it is rated -1, with the agreement they are supposed to furnish $1 million a year in free health care. why? in your opinion -- if you can say this -- why do you think our politicians in both parties are allowing hospitals to be bought up in a monopoly by for profits? thank you. i will hang up and listen to the

answer. guest: thank you, george, for the question. i know that there is definitely a shift toward for-profit hospitals for some communities, and that may be what is right for those communities. it is hard to say without knowing more of the details specifically, but i will say there is not a shift to for-profit health centers. health centers are locally controlled nonprofits. because of the requirements around the local boards they do need to stay that way. so, we are insulated from that phenomenon. but definitely i would love to maybe understand that for-profit shift in medicine would be impacting communities like yours. guest: a slight different perspective is, if they are in rural communities, these are rural community hospitals, we know that some of them are closing down. health centers are trying to step in and create for kinds of

services that is really needed for those communities, whether it is prenatal care, maternity care, addressing some of the cervical and breast-cancer screenings, as joe mentioned, and terms of thinking about, how do we go after the leading causes of death, hypertension and diabetes, and trying to maintain those services as larger systems failed to struggle with this current environment. host: we do see so many hospitals closing around the country, particularly in rural areas. does it take to set up a community health center in the places where maybe they do not have good access to a hospital or other medical facilities? guest: a lot of that access need is in rural. we did a study, 100 million americans that need access to primary care. a lot of those were in rural america. there is the process to start a community health canter, --

center, to get that through the services administration, when you need to establish a track record that you can have a grant and community input. but also the funding that is necessary. last time there was one of these rounds of funding was in 2019. there were 77 applications funded, but -- that was out of over 500 that were actually filed. so there is incredible need out there to do this. as there has been a shift away from hospitals in rural america. it is something that we really try to work with. the individuals and our state affiliates, the state primary care physicians work with people on the ground to guide them as they look to develop a health center. host: you are saying in order to set up one of these centers you have to apply for these federal grants, and the last time that option was open was in 2019? guest: yes.

host: do you happen to know if there is another one scheduled? guest: it has been projected, but it is pending new resources, new funding. the agency got about 600 applications now, so we know there is still that incredible need out there. we are trying to push for congress to provide additional resources. we just had our conference last week. commensurate with the make america healthy again agenda and to meet some needs around these new communities that we need to be funded. host: patricia is in cambridge, -- cambridge springs on our line for independents. good morning, patricia. caller: i have a mother that goes to the community health center in earache, pennsylvania, and when we go there it is so packed there are people sitting on the stairs it is so busy there.

my question is, what is the dock or per patient -- dr. per patient -- host: ratio? caller: in a city like that. it seems like there are so many patients and not a lot of doctors. guest: yeah, i mean, in general it just sort of speaks to the primary care workforce shortage. i think every health center depending on where you go will see long waits or maybe more, thinner lines, but in general i think it speaks to the lack of primary care in the system. one of the things about health centers is we really do try to figure out how to create greater access points. we do have a large, aging population. i think we have about 8 million, 9 million 55-plus adults that we know we are going to have to

think about, you know, how do we create different kinds of open access for that population? host: going back to that kff data, some of the data they have, roughly eight in 10 patients reported they were able to get appointments as soon as they needed at health centers in 2022. and that was in the past 12 months for check up or routine care. 60% said they were always able to get an appointment at their health center as soon as they wanted for immediate care that they needed right away. 54% said they were able to do that compared to 21% saying usually and even less saying sometimes or never. and across racial or thick groups, most patients reported positive experiences interacting with health center doctors and other professionals, but black and hispanic patients were less likely to say that doctors are

health professionals explain things in a way that was easy to understand. that was a different set of data there. let's go to amy in lip later, maryland on our line for republicans. good morning. caller: hi. yes, i think you for taking my call. i just wanted to advocate for community health centers because i feel that it should be a bipartisan issue. all americans need to have these community health centers. whether it be for themselves or their family. i mean, no one can go through the inch -- the entire trajectory of life -- i guarantee their financial situation for that their health care situation won't change. i know personally in my family i have had several family members who had to use community health

care centers because they were living in rural areas and this was their choice. but it is primarily also financial. so, i just wanted to urge the public that this is a critical issue. and that we definitely have enough federal funding for this matter and this is something that can serve all americans. guest: thank, amy, for that support and appreciation. we definitely agree with you that while health centers are nonpartisan they are fortunate to get a partisan support because of the impact they have in communities, and that can be big cities, small towns, the rural frontier, island communities. often in those rural communities they may be the only primary care option for the constituents and for the individuals. so, we have talked to multiple health centers. there is one i'm thinking of in south dakota, they have towns of

400, 500 people, and if not for them it would be hours and hours of driving ticket to the next hospital or health care system. host: surely as in jackson, tennessee on our line for democrats. good morning. caller: good morning. my question is, the community health centers in my area, i have concern that there is not enough oversight. both gentlemen talked about the savings. i would like to know, are they sacrificing quality to create these? because what i'm finding at community centers is that we are being provided with sub-quality equipment, sub-quality medicine. even the food for the feeding tubes, people are allergic to soy, for example, and they are forced to still use that, knowing they are allergic to it.

then we have the other question -- why other question is, when you create these savings, do those savings find their way back into the community programs? because if you have savings, who is the savings for? it doesn't appear that it is necessarily for the community when we are forced to use sub-quality equipment and medicine. we are forced into using generic, and sometimes generic does not always fit someone. everybody doesn't fit into the box. so what are you doing to service those people who do not fit into those boxes? host: we are running low on time, so i want to give them a chance to respond to your question. guest: great question, surely, and i'm sorry your experience, what you think is perceived as lower quality. as nonprofits, you know, most nonprofits in general but all health centers as nonprofits

reinvest all of their revenue that they gain, in terms of the service lines. the research has shown that centers, the quality of care often exceeds the industry benchmarks. i think in terms of what we are seeing for that, i mean, if you visit most health centers they are very sophisticated but have very diverse service lines. as i mentioned, they are very patient-oriented, and patient-centered, which means they are not only looking at the medical service they need, but looking to meet the needs for substance use disorders, mental health, social needs, vision health, oral health. so, it is a lot of different kinds of needs as they pull in these resources. i love the point you are making. if there are savings in the system that health centers are generating it should definitely be coming back for us to think about how we can better advance the care we are providing. guest: just to maybe underscore

one point there, thank you, surely, for raising it. as we have talked about, 51% of the board of a health center is patients, right? unlike another type of health care setting where, you know, the decision-makers maybe -- may be in some far-off state or community, these are people in the community seeking care and getting care right there. if there are issues they are immediately addressed because they are bringing them up through the board and creating change. that, i think, has led to the strong record around quality for health centers. because of this unique part of our health care. host: changes in harlem springs, ohio ohio on our line for democrats. caller: yes, thank you for taking my call. i'm concerned about our tax dollars. i voted -- i have been a lifelong democrat, but i don't think i will be doing that again this year.

yes. they for taking my call. i am a lifelong democrat -- host: james, did you have a question for them? caller: yes. are you funding our health centers with taxpayer money? guest: yes. james, thank you for the question. health centers do get federal funding to support their operations and care for the uninsured. so, that is really important, but it is also in context only about 12% or 14% of the total revenue that the health center gets. so, it is, you know, really supported by other reimbursement , through coverage like medicare and medicaid, but, you know, again, we have a very significant return on investment because of the focus around primary care and keeping people out of more-cost settings like an emergency department. guest: if you are looking for a

model that saves costs, saves lives, saves livelihoods, health centers are that solution. we know that health centers on the solution to making america healthy. we are, as i mentioned, our growth is really dependent on where the needs are. and the needs are huge still. 100 million without access to care. when you visit a health care for the homeless program we are probably running at, or likely affiliated with it. migrant health centers, public housing clinics. so, we are really going to places where it may not necessarily be, sort of, would be attractive for for-profit hospitals or for for-profit entities, but our mission is to serve all of the people in need. host: thank you both very much for your time. that was joe dunn, the chief

policy officer at the national association of community health centers, and peter shin, the chief science officer. thank you so much for joining us this money. guest: thank you. host: coming up, we are going to hear from you. we are going to have open forum and you can start calling in now. the numbers are on the screen. we will be right back. ♪ >> book tv. every sunday on c-span2. features leading authors discussing their books. he was a look at what is comg up this weekend. at 12:20 p.m. the author of "from these roots" trac her family's bloodline to an enslaved man who is in one of

the first-ever photos of enslaved people from africa. she also speaks about her lawsuit against harvard university. and at 2:30 p.m. eastern, and honor of presidents' day weekend, we will look back at presidents as authors. will hear from jimmy carter, george h.w. bush, bill clinton, george w. bush, and barack obama. at 8:00 p.m. till gates discusses his early influences in his memoir. then at 10:00 p.m. eastern former president of anheuser-busch sales and distribution company offers his insight to the bud light controversy, declining sales, and its future in his book "last call for bud light or cup he is interviewed by richard morrison. watch book tv every sunday on c-span2, and find a full schedule on your program guide or watch online anytime at booktv.org.

>> starting next week, watch c-span's new members of congress series, we speak with republicans and democrats about their early lives, previous careers, families, and why they decided to run for office. on monday at 9:30 p.m. eastern hour interviews include janelle bynum, the first african-american ever elected to congress from oregon. >> my mother graduated in 1970 from one of the last segregated high schools in the state -- in the country, rather. i think about all of the opportunities that were not afforded her, you know, coming out of segregation. and i bring that perspective to oregon, saying, you know, my mom was a rural kid who didn't have a lot of opportunities, but i'm going to make sure i bring that forth for all of the kids in oregon. >> watch new movies of congress all next week, starting at 9:30 p. etern on c-span.

>> micro c. it is not just an idea. it is a process. a process shaped by leaders elected to the highest offices and entrusted to a select few with guarding its basic principles. it is where debates unfold, decisions are made, and the nation's course is charted. democracy in real-time. this is your government at work. this is c-span, having you your democracy, unfiltered. >> "washington journal" continues. host: welcome back. we are ready to take your calls about policy, news, whatever is on your mind. our number for republicans, (202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-8000. independents at (202) 748-8002. we will start with leah in

anderson, south carolina on our line for republicans. caller: good morning. yes, well, my first question was, did the gentleman say that some of the funding, the tax dollars due go to assist migrants -- immigrants here in some of the medical centers? did he say that? guest: he did mention migrant health centers -- migrant health care among the services that some community health centers provide. caller: ok, i understand. what my comment is, is, i'm in my late 60's, and use to -- and i know things are different -- we had one health department in each city or county, and folks that were low income would go there and they were able to seek any type of medical or dental help. my concern lies within our

hospital systems. if you have insurance, if you have to go there to the er, you have to sit there like, all night until the next day almost to get to see a doctor. and that, to me that is where things need to be cleaned up first. you know, as opposed to giving a lot of our tax dollars to folks coming in from other countries. host: ok. all right, next up is lisa in utica, michigan, on our line for independence. -- independents. good morning, lisa. caller: good morning. you so much for having this wonderful conversation. the thing i'm calling about this morning is welfare reform. there seems to be a lot of

kerfuffle with people who are losing benefits. they are getting letters in the mail. their food stamps, their snap program benefits. they are also discussing how they received the unnamed -- unearned income tax credit. i just wanted to call in to remind people that these are not meant to be programs to sustain you for life. so, for people that are having additional kids to get additional benefits that they are putting the children at risk by doing this and they, indeed, may not be able to afford their children, which is troubling. i just wanted to throw my comment in. thank you very much. host: donald is in richland, michigan on our line for republicans. good morning. caller: good morning. i'm calling for some quick words. i was listening to a politician yesterday, and he was talking

about god did this, and god that, and god the other. then, how can that he when he is a democrat and is for abortion? how can -- god is not on both sides of this thing, so that is just kind of a problem for me. and where did the global warming go in the last week or so? i haven't heard anyone mention global warming in seven days now. i guess it's not here anymore. it's a little confusing. you cannot fix today's problems when you are worried about yesterday's problems. that is all the time you hear in the middle east there. we are not fighting a war with japan and germany. that has been a long time now.

we are friends now. why can't those people become friends after the war? they have a complete different way of life and we will never change them to be like we are. we can do whatever we want to, and they will not change. that is just how it is. it is just too bad. it is a bad way to have population control, but a lot of what you have to do is see they have enough ways to grow food to feed people. one of the ways to get rid of people is, have a war. host: next up is sean in east st. louis on our line for democrats. caller: hi. i'm calling about the education. i was born in 1972. when i went to school we had books.

we studied american history, math, all kinds of stuff. my thing is, we were able to take our books home, we had our homework. and i came home me and my friends, we would get together and we would sit around the table. those that was slower than others, we would help them. my mom would be cooking. when we got through we ate. i had books. host: ok. james is in grand canyon, arizona on our lines for independents. caller: how are we doing this morning? host: good, thank you. caller: i am a former federal

worker as of yesterday night. a lot of us at this national park were let go. i just wanted to call in and talk about the particular issues that face national park's and our public lands in arizona and across the country right now. host: please go ahead. caller: as you know, the administration is making large cuts to federal programs and everything like that. they say they're going after corruption, the deep state, all of this, but really what it -- what that is affecting our the custodians, the maintenance people, the landscapers, the ecologists, the restoration people. that is the people that keep their national parks and public lands beautiful, and that is on the chopping block as of yesterday. when they tell you they are going after these big funding cuts, these federal workers and the public servants, it is a working class of people that work hard and work 2, 3 jobs each, and we are working hard

appear to keep your national parks and your america beautiful. the most american thing and the most american landscapes are at risk right now. host: if you don't mind sharing, what kind of work did you used to do for the national park service? caller: vegetation restoration work. every time construction comes to the national parks they are building a large water pipeline that provides water to the people up. from the north rim to the south rim. whenever there is construction we come in and work to restore that land and we grow plants in our nursery, our greenhouse and nurseries are totally understaffed right now. and this landscape does not just happen. there is people and there has been people for thousands of years working to keep these lands beautiful. host: so who is managing those nurseries and the effort right now? caller: it has been a collective effort. we have been understaffed for years, and right now it is all in question. we don't know.

this all happened yesterday. host: so many federal workers receive notices within the last week or so that they would be laid off, especially newer employees. how are you thinking about what comes next? caller: right now i'm not planning on leaving northern arizona. this place is extremely important to me and the grand canyon is bigger than just a job. however i conserve the resources here, the colorado river, there is uranium mines they are trying to open up again that directly affects the people, and those things are really important issues. i plan on staying here and working toward those issues no matter what. host: good luck in your job search, james. let's now hear from lee in grand george, new york on our line for republican. grand gorge, new york. excuse me, on our line for republicans. caller: good morning.

the speakers at the recent consumer financial protection rally falsely accused the president of several violations. and just one accusation. they said he wanted to increase credit card interest rates to award his billionaire friends and big bank. in fact, he said the current credit card interest rates as high as 35% punishes the american people, and he will bring them down to 20% across the board. it is always the same politicians who deceive and inflame the public and should be prosecuted for lying. thank you. host: krystal is in wilkes-barre, pennsylvania on our line for democrats. good morning, crystal. caller: yes, good morning. i have two concerns. one is a question for you. can you tell me why you don't have an interactive site on

bluesky for people to interact with you like you do on twitter? host: do you mean bluesky, social media platforms? i do have an account on blue skies. caller: you do, but we cannot interact like we do on twitter. it is not the same. we as cable, people who pay our cable bill, we are not allowed to do the same thing as we do on twitter. that is number one, and you know that. number two, the guest you had on about the israel-palestine conflict, to me it is just one-sided. and i thought c-span would at least have somebody on the other side -- and you never do. i think this is what the news has done for this people conflict, and that is why the people are fed up with israel.

you guys don't show both sides of it, and i wish as c-span supporter you would do that sometime. and i can't understand why you don't do it. do you think you are going to be hurt or get off of the air? i don't know why you don't do it. that is a concern i have as well. but please have an interactive site on blue skies so we can do the same things, so we don't have to go onto that nasty twitter. i appreciate you. thank you. host: grant is in perrysburg, ohio on our line for republicans. good morning, grandparent -- good morning, grant. caller: i wanted to make an observation. one is advertising for dogs and dog food and all of that. and the thing that goes along with that is the lack of young couples having children. they seem to be having dogs and

want to have dogs instead of having young families. it is just something -- and i have talked to younger people about that and they concur with that. so, it is just, i think, an unusual thing happening in our society at this time. host: ok. next up is scott in los angeles on our line for independents. good morning, scott. caller: hello there to everybody out there, and we think you would do a tremendous job, man. -- ma'am. just a couple of things. a big thank you to c-span once again. for showing us the sunday before the super bowl the dnc, they had a little gathering there, folks trying to maybe be the leader now at the dnc, and just think you guys so much because i found it extremely interesting. it starts with jonathan capehart

asking a question. this is right at the beginning. he wants a show of hands of how many folks think that racism and sexism cost ms. is harris the election. every hand went up, but then he says that is the right answer, and anyway, i found it very interesting, but my more important point, i would like to just speak to the reporters out there. you know, you have a couple of stories that you just show no interest in. one is the epstein files. now, i heard donald trump start to talk about this a while back, and as he was speaking he got very wishy-washy about it. immediately he was going to, you know, unclassified these files with everything else. and where are you reporters?

this is the only thing that could have prevented donald trump from ever running or staying in office. all of this other stuff, trying to keep him off the ballot, you know, making cases against him, where are you reporters on behalf of us american people? you are supposed to be doing the job for us to be looking into all of these things. it is just extremely sad to me. the next time i see reporters in the room at the white house, would somebody please be kind enough to ask when they are going to declassify the epstein files, you guys? so, please, let's start working on behalf of the american people and just god bless everybody at c-span. thank you for taking the call. everyone have a great day.

host: alan is in north carolina on our line for republicans. good morning, alan. caller: good morning. i want to say thank you to c-span for being on the air. i love you. i watch you all the time. i have three different things i wanted to make a comment about. going back to the palestinians, the palestinians are a people, and just like like people in this country and white people are people and hispanic, we have learned to overcome our distance -- our differences and live in harmony. the palestinian people had an opportunity to have a state. they rejected that plan. they rejected several plans since then. and all they have shown they want to do is destroy the state of israel. same as iran. they want to drive it into the sea. they don't want peace. from the river to the sea means palestine and no israel. they are not interested in two

states either. every time i plan for two states they rejected. now the whole populace has been radicalized. their children are taught to hate israel. you can never have a state side by side. all they want to do is destroy each other. what president trump wants to do is clear the slate, move those people out, separate them from all they radicalizing, and then rebuild the whole thing, which is going to take 20 years, get saudi arabia, all of the other people to invest in the area and make it a nice place. then the palestinians that do not want to be rattled allies can do so. -- radicalized can do so. that is a great solution. the second thing was about the medical things in hospitals. it is just like the schools. the federalist guy was right. stuff needs to be sent back to the states. we are $37 trillion in debt. you cannot say that enough. all of these people like, well, the bushes, and this ain't going

to get their money -- $37 trillion. to solve that we need to send a lot of this back to the states. the last thing, the third thing is about that. i would say i wish somebody that talks to the president, we don't need to be ashamed of somewhat of american expansionism. democracy is good for civilization. india wouldn't be where it was if it was not for the british empire. then they win against slavery. not only did they go against it, but they blockaded slave trade. democracy and freedom are good for the world. i would say called mexico a failed state. everybody is here anyway. as far as that goes, go ahead and take cuba. that is a failed state too. and what happened to the monroe doctrine? canada is right. we subsidized them, $220 billion

a year. we don't mind that if that is a state, but why should we do that for another country and why should we continue? there are mexicans in california, you know? california used to be part of mexico. just annex the whole thing, and said, welcome to america. we solved the labor problem, you know? god bless you all. thank you for letting me say all of that. host: alliances in new york on our line for democrats. good morning. caller: how are you doing? i just want to make a comment. i look at last year, 376 billion dollars was used -- million dollars -- was used to lobby congress. that is three quarters of a million per congressman. so you have to give congressman a break. if you had that money coming after you it's going to affect how you vote. the other thing, the total

income for the united states in 2023 was $105 trillion. and that income is every year, and that is $35 trillion, and that is over 250 years. so, there is a way to pay the debt. and alls you got to do is do it systematically without hurting the american people. and government is not the problem. have a great day, america. host: lawrence mentioned the amount of money spent lobbying the federal government. open secrets checks this data and put out a report a couple of days ago, finding that federal lobbying set a new record in 2024. business associations, corporations, labor unions, and other organizations are spending more than ever to influence policy decisions at the federal level. in 2024 lobbying spending reached a record-breaking $4.4

billion, according to a new analysis by open secrets. the $150 million increase in lobbying continues an upward trend that began in 2016. being spending has increased by more than $1 billion in the past decade, totaling almost $37 billion since 2015. in each quarter of 2023 and 2024 spending surpassed $1 billion. the biggest spenders include the national association of realtors, who has spent 86 point $3 million on lobbying. in the u.s. chamber of commerce, which has spent over $746 million. herb is in high point, north carolina on our line for independents. caller: yes, thank you. hope everybody is doing well, and happy valentine's day to all the ladies. i want to say something about this vladimir putin guy.

he is making a nuclear facility that can create radiation all over the world. and so we need to think about what we can do about him. that's all i have to say. thank you much. host: amy is in leesburg, florida on our line for republicans. good morning, amy. caller: yes, i want to address something someone said earlier on your very first segment they said that elon musk contributed $250 million to trump's campaign. basically suggesting that trump bought the presidency. i read where mark zuckerberg and his wife contributed $400 million to biden's campaign in 2020. and also he squashed the story about the laptop -- hunter biden's laptop.

now that trump got elected he is saying, oh, biden's administration made us do this, they called up and screamed at our employees. really, trump is not thinking straight if he trusts mark zuckerberg, because i would not trust him at all. also there was more people that died in the pandemic hunter biden's presidency than trump, and they always try to blaine trump for everything. and even i spoke with you on october 18 and brought up the hunter biden laptop and the fbi said it was misinformation when they knew it was true, and you started talking about the arizona recount. that had nothing to do with the fact that that race was rigged, with the cia people saying that the hunter biden laptop was not true, the fbi saying it was not true. they all lied, and through the election to biden. that is what i have to say. host: that is all the time we

have for open form and for "washington journal" today. thanks for everyone who called in to share their thoughts and questions. you're going to be back with another addition tomorrow morning at 7:00 a.m. eastern. everyone have a great day. ♪ [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2025] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] >> c-span's "washington journal ," our live forum to discuss the latest issues in public policy, from washington and across the country. coming up sunday morning, washington examiner executive

editor james antal discusses president trump's legislative agenda and congressional democrats' opposition strategy. then author jason steinhauer on comparisons between president trump and former republican president william mckinley. in office from 1897 to 1901. washington journal. join in the conversation live at 7:00 eastern on sunday morning on c-span, c-span now, or online at c-span.org. >> saturdays, watch american history tv's series "first 100 days." we will explore the early months of presidential administrations with authors and through the c-span archives.

discusses how the government funding freeze is impacting community health centers. "washington journal" starts now. ♪ host: good morning. it is saturday, february 15th, 2025 area the trump administration is continuing its review of federal agencies, laying off thousands of civil servants this week, even as legal