♪ host: good morning. it is monday, february 17, 2025, president's day in the united

states. designated in the federal calendar is george washington's birthday, the proximity to abraham lincoln's birthday link the two and eventually expended the holiday to a celebration of all american presidents. this president today, we are asking viewers, who is your favorite president, and why? phone lines and split as usual for political party for you this morning. republicans, it is (202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-8000. independents, (202) 748-8002. you can also send us a text. that number, (202) 748-8003. if you do, please include your name and where you are from. otherwise, catch up with us on social media on x @cspanwj, on facebook at facebook.com/c-span. a very good monday morning to you. happy presidents' day. you can go ahead and start calling in now. as you are calling in, we take you to an opinion piece this weekend encouraging americans to

study washington and lincoln on president's day. they write in that piece, other presidents have of course done noble things and guided the nation through perilous times, but none was as foundational as washington and lincoln. they were of course not perfect men. they write, they succeeded despite their imperfections and because of their humility and trust in god. the nation's first president set the tone for the job and the nation's collective identity. the 16th made preservation of the union nonnegotiable and laid the foundation for modern america. there piece was published yesterday. each year beginning back in 1896, a member of the united states senate has read from george washington's farewell address. that reading taking place on the floor of the senate. it will happen tomorrow afternoon. last year, it was senator ben cardin who read george washington's farewell address.

these were the final words of that address. [video clip] >> with me, a predominant motive has been to endeavor to gain time to our country. to settle recent institutions come into progress without interruption to that degree of strength inconsistency which is necessary to give humanly speaking the command of its own fortunes. though in reviewing the instances of my administration, i am unconscious of potential error. i am nevertheless too sensible in my defects to not probable that i may have committed the errors. whatever they may be, i fervently besiege the almighty -- beseech the almighty to mitigate the evils. i shall also carry with me the hope that my country will never cease to view them with indulgence. after 45 years of my life dedicated to service, they will

be consigned to oblivion as myself must soon be to the mansions of rest. host: the farewell address of the nation's first president . yesterday, the nation's 47th president was at the daytona 500. the washington post writes yesterday he was relishing the attention at one of the nation's most watched tv events. that trip to the daytona 500, just a quick trip up the coast from mar-a-lago. he shook hands with drivers before nascar's signature race and reveled in the applause as fighter jets screamed overhead and some attendees were chanting his name. "this is your favorite president" donald trump told the drivers by radio. he said, i'm a big fan, i am a really big fan of you people. there is the beast circling the

track with president trump the daytona 500. this morning, we are asking you on this presidents' day, who is your favorite president, and why? that is our question for the first half-hour of "washington journal." a three hour program on this presidents' day. we hope you join us for all of it. we will start in california with perry on the line for republicans. good morning. caller: good morning, john. host: who is your favorite president, perry. caller: teddy roosevelt. host: why tony roosevelt -- why teddy roosevelt? caller: he is such a historical figure. him and his brother elliott watched the funeral procession of abraham lincoln from the second-story floor of the house they lived in new york when the procession went down i believe 50 7th avenue. i always thought that was kind of a historical thing that a

president should see another president as famous as abraham lincoln and in a very sad way but it was kind of like destiny for him to become president. just so much history with him. even after he left office, he was as big as life. everywhere he went, he was just somebody who was a true world leader in the white house and out of the white house. host: what do you think history will say or is saying at this point, it has been long enough for history, about his return to the white house, the bullmoose party. caller: yes, that was something else. of course, we know that he almost was assassinated with his

return. and there was another little funny story about how after his presidency he actually had to go to court. i forget what it was over, but he was told he could not stand up and speak because he was such a proper orator. actually, fdr actually i believe he was the assembly, actually was a witness. he said, how do you know this man? he says i think it was by blood and by relationship. kind of funny what fdr said because he was actually called to testify for his cousin. host: a teddy roosevelt fan. you mentioned fdr and teddy roosevelt, both making the top five in the historians survey of

presidents. this survey, the most recent one, done by presidential historians and coordinated by c-span, helped put that together, and have done it over the years four different times, most recently in 2021. top five in that historians survey. every him lincoln, george washington, franklin roosevelt, teddy roosevelt, dwight eisenhower. that is what more than 100 presidential historians said for their pick for presidents on a variety of presidential leadership criteria. we want to hear from you this morning, who is your favorite president and why? this is linda, also from california. caller: yes, hi. my favorite president and i don't see how there could be another is franklin delano roosevelt. that is because of his vision for america.

he was of brahmans heritage from back east. but he felt america needed to be a place without great differences in income, and money -- in money. there should not be a tremendously wealthy class and many, many, many poor workers. not fair for their family's future. he supported unions. he supported peace. he was intelligent. this was -- he was just what i think -- he envisioned america the way my folks envisioned america and the way i was raised.

actually, i was raised a roosevelt democrat. host: you say he supported peace, and yet one of the best-known things about him was his leadership of the united states during world war ii. caller: yes, it is ironic, but that is his intelligence and his breadth of thinking. yes. i agree. i am glad you added that to it. yes. even if he deliberately set it up, i still liked -- i loved his economic view. host: linda, thanks for the call. from california to massachusetts. mike come online for democrats, who is your favorite president, and why? caller: my all-time favorite was franklin d roosevelt. there were three things. one was his great support for social security. i believe it was in the mid or late 1930's. then wpa, which helped millions

of people get back to work when there was no hope during the great depression of the 1930's. and his greatest accomplishment was taking us from the great depression. by 1945, we were the world's number one economic and technological giant. and that is my feelings about franklin d roosevelt. host: mike, thanks for the call for massachusetts. jack in ohio, from columbus, you are next. caller: hello. can you hear me? host: i can. who is your favorite president? demino is next in california, republican. good morning. caller: hello. good morning. first of all, i have to say i am an italian american. my favorite president has to have been george w. bush because he showed the american people that when you are president you are getting a little -- host: we will go to herbert in

georgia, democrat. good morning. caller: good morning. my favorite president is lyndon johnson. host: why lbj? caller: because he signed the civil rights bill and that cause president obama, which is another favorite, to become the first biracial president of the united states of america. by him signing the civil rights bill, it was very beautiful because this was america's foundation of three generations, the indian, european, and black, the first generations. i think we should have a part of american history. and i appreciate lyndon johnson for doing that. he went against his own people, went against his own democrats. now you have these republicans who don't want to go against their own president for democracy.

host: herbert, i wonder what your thoughts are of this recent gallup poll about a survey of americans, about the feelings of living u.s. presidents. and among those, barack obama, george w. bush, bill clinton, donald trump, joe biden. barack obama with the highest favorability rating. 59% of americans spotting to the gallup poll say they have a positive opinion -- a favorable opinion. 36% saying they have an unfavorable view. joe biden, just 39% saying they have a favorable view, 57 percent saying they have an unfavorable view. caller: you know, john, to be honest with you, obama was biracial. he was white and black. he was biracial.

that set -- host: i'm listening, herbert. caller: john, i like obama because -- yeah. host: herbert, you have to stop listening from your tv and just speak through your phone. easiest way to have a conversation. by the way, more discussion about barack obama. he plays a major role in a book by juan williams of fox news. his new book out just last month. new prize for these eyes. the rise of america's second civil rights movement. we will have that conversation in the last hour of "washington journal" today so stick around for that discussion and your calls with juan williams. back to your favorite president and why. from palm beach, florida, independent, good morning. caller: my favorite president is andrew jackson because he ended the fed and there was no debts.

no debts. no $34 trillion in debt under andrew jackson. he paid off all of our debts, sold off the assets, and closed down the fed. host: what do you think presidents have said about the national debt and their views of the national debt since then? it is more than $34 trillion. it is about 36 point $5 trillion and counting today, at least if you go by usdebtclock.com. caller: i don't know how to answer that. they don't care. the fed is the president's bank account. if we had to pay off the $34 trillion by selling off our assets, listen to this, we have 800 million acres of federally owned land. if we had to sell every acre, it would cost $50,000 per acre to pay off the debt. that is pretty big.

i don't know. that is just a little calculation i like to make. host: this again from usdebt clocl, the debt per u.s. citizen, $37,000 each citizen would have to pay. if you went by taxpayer, $323,000 per taxpayer to pay off the national debt. jack is in athens, texas, republican. good morning. caller: good morning. host: go ahead, sir. caller: my favorite president, i am a republican and it might seem strange, but my favorite president would be bill clinton. he was a smart guy and got a lot of stuff done. he did welfare reform. of course, he took credit for it. just for entertainment alone, he was a pretty great guy. host: jack, what do you think

about bill clinton since he left office? caller: nothing. i think they make a lot of money. i think he was just a smart guy, a really slick politician. newt gingrich did a lot of stuff while he was in office and congress did he took credit for it. that is all i got. host: that is jack in texas. if you want to learn more about bill clinton after he left office, he has a book about it. we aired a discussion about that book on c-span's book tv and you can find that conversation. it was a few years ago he sat down for that interview. c-span.org if you type bill clinton. you can find bill clinton and other presidents talking about their books and their memoirs. this is built in new york, democrat. good morning. caller: good morning.

thanks for taking my call. i was going to go with abraham lincoln, but we know they would have had to free the slaves anyway because they would be packing up. it would be a toss between robert kennedy and lyndon b. johnson. host: john kennedy? caller: john kennedy and lyndon b. johnson. john kennedy was not able to accomplish much that he would have, but lyndon b seemed to hold it up for him. even though we know he used the n word a couple of times, it was said, and he signed the civil rights act, he declared war on poverty. he had done so many things for the poor, and he also thought about the environment. and also, he signed medicare, so

lyndon b. even though he was a little racist my think he did a lot of great things. host: that is bill in new york. this is one of the headlines from the washington times today come up keeping the president in president's day. holiday increasingly becomes focused on retail instead of george washington. it is a focus on the history of president's day, and we are asking you this morning on this president's day, who is your favorite president, and why? this is rod in michigan, republican. good morning. caller: yeah, my favorite president is nixon. host: why nixon, rod? caller: back then, i was going to college and my birthday was on the front page. i said, what is that there for? i was number two in the draft and nixon called it off so i am still alive and i am happy. host: rod in michigan. you know many people who ended

up going to vietnam? caller: oh, many. one of our best people in my hometown died over there. i voted for mcgovern but nixon saved my life. that is why he is my president. host: shirly is in delray beach, florida, democrat. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i am going to say president barack obama because he was of course the first african-american president that this country ever had. he is the first. he was transformative. i want to say everybody voted for him. of course they didn't, but everybody voted for him. it showed the world that the country could go forward. and once the present president is no longer here, we will have to go back to rebuilding our country. but he moved us forward.

then we had to go backwards as life seems to make us do as a country. we move forward five steps, we go back 10, and that is my choice. host: that is shirly in florida. this is bernard, illinois, independent. good morning. caller: good morning. host: good morning. who is your favorite president, bernard? caller: president lincoln at mr. kennedy. host: and why is that? caller: because they were both good men. and i believe they straightened this country out. host: what makes a president a good man, a good president? caller: a gentleman who freed the slaves, mr. lincoln did. and mr. kennedy stood his ground. host: where did he stand his ground in particular? caller: with the cuban missile crisis. host: that is bernard in illinois.

also looking for your social media posts as well. here is a few of those who are watching and writing along on social media. kelly on facoosaying it is donald trump, best presint since reagan. peace through strength and not already bought like most policians. they hate him because they c't control him. they never wanted the waste, fraud, abuse, and money laundering exposed. another quote from jim on facebook saying it is coolidge for his quote when he said his greatest accomplishment was minding his own business. the exact quote according to the coolidge foundation, perhaps one of the greatest benefits of my administration has been minding my own business. james antal saying it is teddy roosevelt,orng groupma food and drugs safe for people to consume, protracted nature by establishing the natural parks. the last president to skinny dip in the potomac.

and he drink a gallon of coffee a day. this is joe saying it is grover cleveland just for his name. this is dutton saying ulysses s grant and bill clinton. looking for your social media posts on facebook and x. in pennsylvania, republican, who is your favorite president and why? caller: donald trump. host: and why trump? caller: trump is a businessman. he is not a politician in the traditional way, and people were tired of how things were going for years with all of the politicians and we dug ourselves in a big hole and trump is trying to get us out of it. he is a businessman first. i just believe he is going to end up being the greatest president of all time. host: bill, i am not sure you saw but it was recently that a

congressman of florida, member of the house, a republican, introducing legislation to arrange for the carving of president trump's image in mount rushmore. what do you think about that? caller: that is a bit premature. time will tell. but i think she is jumping the gun a little bit on that. nancy pelosi wanted to put biden's head on mount rushmore. that was very premature as we saw how history ended up playing out. host: that is built in pennsylvania. this is carol in iowa, democrat. good morning. who is her favorite president, and why? caller: actually, i have three presidents. franklin roosevelt because he got a social security and i was with that. then barack obama forget i still remember -- then barack obama. i still remember watching his

speech, in two years, the black people. i felt their happiness because it was long overdue. and third, i will say joe biden. i miss him. history is going to show how much he did for us in the four years. he brought us through covid. he made so many executive orders that trump throughout the window -- threw out the window. we will have to recover from that and it will take four years. it will take another four years for and democrat to come in -- a democrat to come in. host: a reminder to turn down your television. this is ricky. good morning. who is your favorite president, ny? caller: yes, my favorite president is john f. kennedy.

my name is ricky mason from north carolina, and i believe john f. kennedy was the best president that this country ever had. host: and why, ricky? caller: because john f. kennedy at the time that he was president and as far as i can remember in the 1960's, he stood for the country and the people, and he cared for the citizens of the united states, where there was a lot of programs that was not implemented in the government, and the government to be at that time wanted the democrats and republicans to come together and make programs that would help the less fortunate people here in america, like social services, social security, and he put all of those programs and those things and health care for children and all of this stuff that now that. mus man is in

there trying to disintegrate all of these programs to help us here in america and not only in america but other concerned that the country with foreign people, helping them with aid with health care, food, and stuff like that when crisis appeared. even when martin luther king was protesting for the civil rights movement. host: ricky, you mentioned all of these different programs. john f. kennedy known for one of his most famous comments from his inaugural address, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country. caller: right. exactly right. exact rep. good: and i like that quote -- exactly right. and i like that quote.

ask not with the country can do for you but what you can do for the country. the people would pull together for what the government could do for the country, what the government could do to help those programs, to help those situations be much better for all humans. john f. kennedy was one of the greatest presidents that put on these accolades and good things in place for mankind and our country. even when castro wanted to exterminate those cubans and stuff like that, john f. kennedy had those people exported here to the united states, so much that i believe if he was to live out his terms of life or what have you, he would have done greater more stuff that i guess we cannot even think of, stuff that was needed in this country. host: that is ricky in north

carolina. a few more from social media comments. this is andrew saying president obama is my favorite because he saved america from the 2008 financial crisis, expanded health care to tens of millions of people, streamlined assistance to small business. this is john on facebook. it is fdr, it meant of personal wealth and certainly not a perfect human being. he did more to help the economy and the american class working people than any other president. darrell, north carolina, independent. who is your favorite president, and why? caller: good morning. my favorite president is abraham lincoln. as a descendant from african slaves with the condition of the human heart, it could be highly likely that i would not be free today. but then i would also like to add my second favorite president is donald j. trump. host: and why is trump your second favorite? caller: well, because of what he wants to do for this country.

i think his tactics may be seen as divisive, but i think his heart is that he wants to return america or get america into a much better place for all americans. host: that is darrell in north carolina, our last caller in this first segment of "washington journal." stick around. plenty want to talk about on this president's day, including up next we will be joined by presidential historian alexis coe. we will talk about her efforts across the country and ask americans about their feelings about fox news news analyst juan williams discusses his new book, "new prize for these eyes." stick around. we will be right back. ♪

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c-span, created by cable. host:'s c-span book tv viewers are familiar with alexis coe, presidential historian, senior fellow at new america. we began our program today asking viewers who their favorite president is ny. is a presidential historian allowed to have a favorite president? guest: i do not have a favorite president. i cannot pick favorites but you have to understand i see them on their best days and worst days. i read all their personal letters and diaries, so it is hard to feel that way but i do feel about them the way people feel about sort of distant family members who are a little bit difficult but you love them anyway. host: you have written about them as well. you have written one book about

george washington and another about jfk. what drew you to george washington and now jfk? guest: i love president to have been so mythologized it is hard to get a sense of who they really were and what they really did. i feel like it is a puzzle i want to put together to solve. what i usually find early in the process is many of the things we take to be axiomatic about the president are not at all and that is where it gets fun. host: on myths about america's first president, this being george washington's birthday, what are some of the myths about america's first president? guest: you heard one recently at the inauguration. when a prayer was given, there was a preface that included one of the greatest myths, which was that washington kneeled to pray at valley forge. there is a painting that was

painted decades later, but even without any sort of corroborating evidence, there is no one who said he prayed. there are no eyewitnesses. it does not seem likely because he did not believe that god would interact with people on earth. it is not what he would do, so that is one that comes up a lot, and of course that he could not tell a lie. he was a spymaster. he could definitely live. -- lie. host: "you never forget your first: a biography of george washington" came out in 2020. guest: "young jack" stops right before the presidency. host: why stop before his presidency? guest: because there is a spate of books i feel every month about his presidency.

i believe so many of them are excellent. however, his early years and particularly his time in congress, the training ground the founding fathers wanted presidents to go through, has been treated like a flyover. it is more like this happened and then we get to the presidency and one of the -- one of my goals as a presidential historian and one of the things i push back on his this idea of destiny. we all know nothing is a foregone conclusion. it is a series of efforts and decisions along the way that make a difference. i just wanted to slow down and focus and it has been great fun. host: you are a senior fellow with new america. guest: what is new america? it is a bipartisan think tank and a wonderful and encouraging environment in which my fellowship project, which has been going on for a couple years, asks how should a

president be? in 2024, new america, aided by some of the stops i went to, sent me on a discussion tour across the country. 13 stops. a few were virtual because i wanted to meet people in different places. i give talks all the time at universities and libraries, but not everyone goes to those talks so i talked for example on tiktok. it is a fantastic way to interact with a different subset of people. i also went to the ohio state university and spoke at the national security institute. it was a wide range of venues in which i got in amazing overview of how the country feels and we are about to turn 250 in 2026. that is america's 250th and an

important moment where america as this fellowship has three goals we think about. we want to feel pride in the founding, a reckoning for the way we have fallen short, and an aspiration toward a better future. i was trying to reconcile all those things and what comes next. host: we want to give you a sense of how america feels with our phone lines. they are open to talk to alexis coe this morning, presidential historian, and this effort with new america and the question of how should a president be. here are the numbers for you to call. it is (202) 748-8001 for republicans. (202) 748-8000 independents, (202) 748-8002 independents, (202) 748-8002 for democrats. -- (202) 748-8001 for democrats. independents, (202) 748-8002. host: when you say how should a president be, do you mean as a leader? as a person? what do you mean? guest: all of the above.

each tour had a specific focus. at the new york historical society one of my guests runs one of the smithsonian's in washington, d.c. and we talked about historical reckoning and i think one of the really interesting points was i would open the question up to people i was talking to and the audience and ask them about attributes but also specific situations, so how much preparation does a president need. should they go through congress? do we want outsiders? what are actual traits? empathy is interesting and often emerged as one of the major attributes people really liked but it is not quite what we think it should be. there's a disconnect between what we think we want in leaders and what we get as leaders, so that is where the fun comes in, because complicity is not a liability -- complexity is not a

liability. host: when you say authenticity, what was an example cited to you as an authentic president? guest: i started the tour in january 2024 and this came up quite a bit that one of the things i will back up and say, that the reason i wanted to do this project was not just the 250th. i am sometimes treated like a comment box for the presidency and i was experiencing so much cynicism, unprecedented cynicism . during his presidency but also during biden and that was interesting to me. so authenticity to them for example -- empathy was talked about as an attribute they wanted. biden was well-known for empathy, but not at that point. there was believe he was not empathetic because he -- gaza was mentioned often and a couple times on the tour, while we see

biden surrounded by family and we know he had a close relationship with both of his sons, he has never met one of his granddaughters, so that was something people would mention. there is this authenticity that you show up in every way and you are not empathetic just to a certain group of people. consistency is important, as well as not just campaigning as an authentic person but actually maintaining ties with the electorate after the campaign is over. host: do you think we are more cynical in general or are you finding more cynical about our leaders these days? what do you mean when you say the cynicism that you found? guest: i have often experienced a lot of questions by the presidency and the person we want to be president, but i think there has been a sharper edge of late as i have progressed in my career,

certainly different in the last four to eight years. it often feels confrontational and less about learning and having fruitful conversations and more about making points or snapback's. nothing that really moves the conversation forward. it does seem as if people have grown tired of the same old conversations about the presidency but they have to be willing to have more, so that is a challenge i feel i faced. host: we will let you chat with some callers. duane is up first, an independent out of illinois. good morning. caller: i thought i would throw harry truman into the conversation today and try to inject a little humor into the conversation. i recall touring the truman's

home in independence, missouri. for baby boomers, it would remind you of going to visit your grandparents house when you were a kid, that they were just ordinary people, but there were extraordinary things in their house. one of them was truman's official white house portrait. in light of mr. biden and mr. trump taking things that they should not have taken from the white house, i thought it was humorous that she took in official white house portrait. when she was asked to return it, she told him she was going to keep it. with all she had to put up with, she thought she deserved it, so to this day her official white house portrait quit which belongs to the white house, is in their home. i thought that was kind of humorous and it reminded me what real people the truman's were.

i guess i could call him my favorite president. host: thanks for the call. real people, authenticity. what do you take from that? guest: that was a great suggestion about how to spend president's day. it is this ill-defined holiday and a couple years ago i wrote an op-ed for the new york times and the headline was george washington would hate president's day. it is not like fourth of july where you have community gathering. i love going to presidential homes and libraries and museums because you get the intersection of the personal and professional. i used to host a podcast called presidents are people too and they are at the end of the day people with their own proclivities. there is a big difference between taking a portrait and taking sensitive materials that could put the country at risk and also could deny people like me the ability to understand the presidency in retrospect.

this is a problem throughout not only the executive branch but also congress. they love to declare their own papers personal, so i think it is an interesting conversation but i do think we view these places, these establishments like presidential libraries and museums, as a celebration or place of reverence. some of them are, but a lot of them challenge and embrace some of the darker aspects of the president's life and decisions and try to contextualize that. one example is monticello, thomas jefferson's's home, and also's guest: fdr hyde park. an interesting discussion in an associated press story today about president's day. you are quoted in that discussion focusing on the monuments here in washington,

d.c. and what they tell us about thomas jefferson, abraham lincoln, and george washington and the washington monument. explain what your concern was about how we relate to george washington and the washington monument. guest: that is not my favorite monument. i feel like thomas jefferson and abraham lincoln have superior ones because they have features. they have words. washington is this unifying figure, but he is just an obelisk. he is tall but it is sanded and you do not see any part of him or interact with it at all and i think that is a missed opportunity. we have talked a lot about monuments over the last decade, but i ascribe to frederick douglass's idea that monuments should exist in their original form but you can improve on them. when i look at washington's monument, i think there's so much room for conversations

about different parts of his life. the title he had longest was master. at 11, he inherited 10 slaves when his father died. that is something we have to talk about because at the end of his life that number swelled to over 213. that is significant because he could not have become who he was without them. when we call someone like washington or jefferson a man of his time, we have to remember all those people were as well. host: on monuments and memorials, i think the newest one is the dwight eisenhower memorial just off of the national mall. have you visited that one? what are your thoughts on that newest memorial? guest: i have not visited it, which is a tragedy to me. unfortunately when i am in tc i'm hitting the archives and giving talks, but i think any

addition is a wonderful starting place for a conversation so i am excited about it but i want to caution people when we emphasize these monuments and names on the sides of buildings and schools. i always tell people when they worry about washington being canceled, best of luck. i do not know how you do that. if you cancel george washington, you are canceling america. host: this is greg waiting on our line for democrats. caller: can you hear me ok? host: yes. caller: first time caller. i just started the program. how do you feel about the last two presidents and how they compare or rank with respect to empathy, which i feel is important? an example would be empathy or caring for the common person, animals in particular, or just

the common person. guest: that is an interesting question. animals are a significant part of the story we will get at one of the presidential libraries or museums because they are something that charms the nation. washington had many dogs and gave them interesting names. one was named sweet lips. i think the way that humans interact in general with the animal is telling about their person. as far as empathy, i would say the early days of covid are hard to get out of my mind. donald trump was very focused on his own experience as a president. every president enters office with an agenda. not all of them face a pandemic, but they have faced terrorist attacks and other challenging issues and their presidency is buffeted by events outside of their control.

it is not necessarily the attributes they have. it is how they react and their ability to grow. the story with every president that people love to tell that i often doubt is that they have some sort of evolution. i think that is rare. someone like kennedy i feel did have an evolution and his empathy grew as he experienced the world. it is really about where you start out. i am not sure it is as much about empathy as having a curiosity about people and the presidency is tied to power and that is important, but many of the people who a president serves cannot have that kind of power so there has to be an innate interest in them and their lived experience. i will not rate either 10 out of 10. host: on the animals side, is it true that harry truman said if you want a friend in washington

get a dog? guest: this is very true, yes. host: why are we are so obsessed with presidents' pets? guest: presidents for us -- we did not want a monarchy, but we are interested in monarchies. i am always fascinated by the reaction to a royal wedding and americans will get up early. the thing is when we evicted a monarch. we did not want one, but we do love a great story, so we like to know things about our presidents and an easy way to perhaps feel ok with them on a personal level even if you disagree with everything they are doing is with the caller said. they do not like the medium but they feel he messages good. it is to see them with a dog. when you do not see -- or a small child. barack obama was so charming and seemed innately good when he

would interact with children and that is something that makes them human, so presidents are people, too. that is lovely for people to see. otherwise they are always in suits and in front of a firing squad of media. it is an intense moment, so we do not really see them relax in a way that is candid. host: this is george in iowa, republican. guest: i want to speak with the guest as a reassessment of herbert hoover as a president and also his parallel with jimmy carter because both were despised in the presidency but both were great men in terms of their humanitarian work. hoover particularly before he became president. he was not even a politician at that point.

other than the fact that he was the vice president. and of course jimmy carter with his humanitarian work after his presidency. i am interested because i really visited the hoover library in west branch this past january before it was closed for renovations for the next year and a half. and the thing about it was it was right after jimmy carter passed away. i am interested in hearing about her particular parallels there and fact that everybody has talked about roosevelt and the way he got us out of the depression. the interesting thing is the things that got us out of the depression after his initial work were things that hoover

tried but was not able to do while he was president. i will quit babbling at this point and let her talk. guest: that was a good question. i do not think you were babbling. i went to go see carter speak in plains, georgia i think around 2015, 2016. it was incredible to see him give a sermon and to grapple with his grandson who had just passed away. he said, i am angry with god, and he talked about that. what both those men have in common that may be did not make for the best presidency, and this is true with grover cleveland, is that they were inflexible. they were stubborn. and sometimes that can be a good thing and sometimes that can be a bad thing. with carter, it was a very good

thing outside of washington because he is obstinate about certain -- and i think he did within the presidency for the many reasons he is not ranked as one of the top 10 presidents, i think that is adherence to a sort of moral standard changed the way the united states interacted with other countries. that is changing now, but it set the tone for decades of international outreach and relations. with carter, he was stubborn and a micromanager. and i think of carter, he managed the white house like tennis sign up for the courts. why would the president do that? that is not something he should be doing, but he had these obsessions. later, when he had this incredible career after the presidency in which he eradicated guinea worms, he oversaw free and fair elections

through the world, he was sent by many presidents to negotiate and listen to other leaders on behalf of the united states. i think that was an important attribute. it just does not always make for the best president. i think carter will be someone we think about differently in the decades after his death and that is true for every president. they go through a process and evolution after their death as far as public opinion. host: jimmy carter also known for his writing career. he wrote more than 30 books over his lifetime. i know you said you cannot have a favorite president. do you have a favorite presidential book? guest: now i have read profiles in courage so many times. carter rivals teddy roosevelt in terms of his prolific output of books. i do not think i could write

these researched, and it hated, cited books that fast at all, but i respect it and i think this is a moment in which we have to celebrate political courage, which is essentially what profiles encourages about and the political courage that carter example if i'd in every book is amazing. he wrote a book called peace, not apartheid. that was a challenging book tour. that was a long time ago. people still have a hard time bringing up the subject, so think about a former president going out with a book with that title. it is provocative and he was ready to fight that fight. i think about that a lot. host: profiles in courage i believe published before jfk was president.

guest: yes. he wins the pulitzer in 1957 and that has always been a subject of debate. i figured out the decision at the jury and executive level and i think i substantiate that he did write it but there were other things that went wrong. it is an incredible feat. he wanted to write a second book. his thesis was turned into a book, so imagine a fresh harvard graduate, the son of an investor who had been a disaster in that role who then publishes a book that becomes a bestseller. then he goes to war and gets a purple heart and goes to congress but he wanted to win a pulitzer. he wanted to be a writer. he loved literature. this book was all his hopes and dreams in a lot of ways and also not. i would say the writing is inferior to his first book because he was recovering from

back surgery. he was on a lot of painkillers and it is not the most organized. his research was a little bit outsourced, but he did write it. host: and your book on jfk, when is that coming out? guest: next year. host: this is sally in virginia, and dependent. -- independent. caller: i wanted to tell a story about john f. kennedy. when i was in fifth grade, i went on a trip to hyannis port and we were sitting out on the docks and john f. kennedy and his mother came out to go out to their sailboat and he was not yet president. he was a senator and he was the most gracious, nice person.

he came up to us and sat down on the dock with us and talked for about an hour about sailing and hyannis port and all the different things that kids would like to do. then he and his mom got on the dock and went off sailing and then waved to us and they saw us again coming off the boat and invited us to a football game that the whole family had in the courtyard in hyannis port. that is my story. i have always kept it with deep connection. host: who won the football game? guest: i do not remember, but probably kathleen. guest: that is a great story. why love about that story, in presidential history mothers are very much maligned, either these

thorns in the side of the presidents, they have to overcome the obstacle of their mother to succeed, and that is the story we hear about washington. my major contribution to washington studies is that was not true. that is the story we hear about kennedy and i love this story because he is going to sail with his mother. they were a, friendly bunch. there were nine children. he had lost his beloved sister and his eldest brother. he was the second oldest. they were always playing competitive games, touch football. this is well known. i really enjoy that story. hyannis port is where they would summer. they had two homes they would divide their time between, one on cape cod and one in florida. it is nice to hear that story

and that he would be interested in talking to 2/5 grade girls on his way to the presidency. they think about jfk and a lot of presidents that will not necessarily work for 18th and 19th ctury presidents as we now see charisma playing quite a role in a president and how the nation interacts and remembers them. jfk had it in ample supply and that was true from the time he was a young child. he was always witty. his mother would write down things he said that were very funny. he would listen to stories around christmas and saying, i know what happens to jesus, but what happened to the mule? but he would deliver it as a joke. he really knew how to talk to just about anyone. host: you talked about this when we chatted about american history tv, but what is data history? guest: something i put as a

placeholder in the introduction and it ended up being part of the book. it is usually presidential history. people -- when i was taking my washington book out to publishers, i maintained that if presidential history was written in a different manner, if it was interested in not just power and treated people around the presidency as more than one dimensional figures just to propel the story forward of the president, that other people would read it, people of color and women. traditionally, presidential history is consider the ram -- realm of men. most presidential historians are men. i'm the first presidential historian in over 100 years who is a woman to write a book on george washington, which is hard to wrap your head around because there are so many books every

year published about him but it is a for us, by us, about us kind of genre. i think that is unfortunate, but we see on father's day all the presidential biographies come out and are front and center in bookstores and libraries. it is dad history, the book you know will be a winner with your dad. they are usually around this thick. they are a size matters crowd for sure. they like these heavy tomes and the same kind of visual on the cover, usually the same five portraits of washington, including the dollar bill, which is a pretty severe portrait in which is j -- his jaw is tight. and the verbal coffin is the title. obviously i want a different direction but it is george washington: a life. there is just not a lot to turn

your head if you are not already inclined to read them. host: "you never forget your first" is the title of alexis coe's biography of george washington. caller: can you guys hear me ok? good morning. it is really inspiring as a fellow history person, fanatic, to hear you talk about the presidents, so thank you for doing this project. i wanted to say what i value in a president and i wanted to give background. my family has voted bipartisanly over the past lord knows how many years. my grandparents voted for jfk and then for johnson and then this kind of switch happened where they started voting for nixon and reagan and ever since bill clinton was first elected they have been voting mostly blue and what the long history

of our voting history has taught me is i value a president who takes the time to know their constituents and fully understand them, who shows no bias, and that is why i will be writing in chappell roan for president. host: ken is in arkansas, republican. good morning. go ahead. caller: alexis, this is a question for you on more current and recent presidents. my curiosity, and maybe you can explain this to me, is the separation of powers. it is a thing i have been questioning. in the past, we were told congress and the house had the power of the purse but it is kind of obvious from what biden had done with the drawdown of the national -- he did that and

usurped that, so i'm kind of wanting you to educate us on where that should really stand, what the structure should be. does trump really have the power to enforce musk to do these cuts to bring down the debt? which i totally agree with. and i think you should be authorized to do that under the powers of the presidency. could you comment on that? guest: it is an interesting evolution. we are all really concerned or excited about it, in your case. i think that is a story that begins with george washington before he was president. at the constitutional convention, george washington did not want to go. martha would not go with him. she wrote -- he wrote these letters saying she would not

leave the state of virginia because she hated to travel and she had just been away for the revolution. george washington, that was his second retirement. he had already retired from the british militia. had the monarchy given land owning white men like washington more slack, we might be a different country. he wanted to be at the center of his country's story and he did not care which one that was there so much to figure out. they have to write a constitution. the articles of confederation are not working. he is presiding on a platform and as everyone is fighting this out they get to the presidency and look at him and they think, ok, he gave up power after the american revolution, which allegedly king george said if he does that he is the greatest man who ever lived. people had given up power, but they had often not, especially in that position.

it was an incredible thing and he also was eager to do it. he kept writing to thomas jefferson and other members of congress asking, how do you want me to do this? i want to be home for christmas. when it comes to the constitutional convention, parties have started to form. people believe he will be in charge and this is a man you can trust, so why not just leave it to him to figure things out? it is incredibly vague as far as the powers of the presidency, including term limits. washington set these precedents and as time went on, when presidents have violated these precedents, in small and big ways, then there has been usually a response from congress . a lot of times the response has been just in words, but sometimes they have been efforts made. one of them is term limits. after fdr got his fourth term,

congress passed term limits based on washington's decision to leave after two terms. with fdr, we have expansion. he wanted to go to war. congress has to authorize a war, but the president can send troops abroad so there is already that tension. as time has gone on, the presidency has tested those limits more and it has been a real failure of congress not to respond in real time when a lot of those challenges have been. that is what we see now. there is the intention of the framers was checks and balances. we know that. so i think we will see a lot of these i am not a constitutional scholar and i'm not an attorney and i have not studied quite as much, but i do know these are in the course and will can -- courts and will continue to be in the courts because there is a lot to suggest someone like elon

musk, an unelected person who suddenly seems to be copresidents, does not have quite these powers. we do know the president does not necessarily have a lot of the powers that he is saying he does, so we will see how it works out. this is definitely the wild west of presidential studies. i cannot even call it history because it is -- there has been nothing like it before. this is truly the moment but i have a piece coming out today on msnbc saying we have been saying he is unprecedented but he is also quite precedented. everything you can say, someone has tried. the transactional presidency has always existed. he is just a spectacle about it. host: ethan and tennessee wants to know the qualifications of a

presidential historian. how do you become one? guest: i have a graduate degree in history. otherwise i would say it is just a proclivity. i spend a lot of time in the archives and looking at primary sources and interacting with the world of history. if you people have introduced themselves as history buffs. i think these relationships coexist. there are certain professional standards i have to adhere to and want to adhere to and recognize in various ways. any day now, c-span's presidential rankings will arrive to my mailbox and that is always a fun time, so those are the qualifications. but many people we regard as presidential historians do not necessarily have the qualifications. ron sure now -- chernow for example i do not think does.

so i think it takes a certain -- like the presidency, it takes personal attributes or qualities and then hopefully a lot of academic rigor because that is what matters. there can be different approaches, but everything has to be based on the same sources. we have to all be working off the same letter, for example, and quoting it as accurately as possible. once we do that, we can go wild with how we interpret it. host: alexis coe also with a history sub stack. she sat down for an interview in december about it. when i was looking recently, you called thomas paine one of america's first influencers. explain. guest: in pamphlet form, yes. he was really important to the american revolution. he was able to make things go viral to speak in the parlance of our time.

it was for his birthday. he was -- he wrote these galvanizing pamphlets that washington very much relied on and this is -- to talk about washington politics in a nutshell, they were the best of friends when washington really needed him. and then he next went to the french revolution and america inspired a global reaction, a sort of age of revolution. we had one of the least bloody, which was credited to george washington, but thomas paine got in trouble with the french during a time of a lot of unrest and was in jail and roach to washington and washington could not intervene. james monroe was the ambassador and working to help him, but

then thomas paine wrote an open letter to washington. he wanted to send it on his birthday and munro, -- monroe talked him out of it. paine wrote, one day people will figure out where you ever in apostate or decent leader? only time will tell. it was the first -- they were the first presidential tell all's, but they were very important to our country. host: let me try to get one or two more calls. this is in arizona, independent. caller: good morning. this is very refreshing this morning. i woke up and i saw you on c-span and i am so happy to be able to speak for the first time ever and i am very interested in the type of president that we as

a nation here in america should have. a president for humanity, a president that is not self-serving, who looks out for the people to protect and provide. the bible says when a wicked king rules the people mourn but when a righteous king rules the people rejoice. you fast-forward to today, to the present president. the people will rejoice when a ruler is righteous in his way of how he treats his people in the nation that he serves. so the humanity and kind as and integrity be present in these next four years.

i think that people would rejoice more. of course the president is not perfect, but at the same time if the people are at his forethought i think the people will rejoice and that is what i wanted. i am so happy for you to be able to do this. this is a first for me, but i thank you for this. host: you can call and once a month on washington journal. we hope to hear from you down the road. guest: that is a wonderful sentiment. a lot of people feel that way and certainly something that is important to the country, when a president has been effective, they can be a unifier. that is not all the time. we cannot win them all, but you should be able to win quite a bit. i like to say something that was important -- we regionally had a plane crash that we watched and heard from president trump very quickly about it and before he

had received too much information about it he declared who was wrong. the families were sold to cut -- discovering who had been a victim on the plane had died. it reminded me of ronald reagan and that his speech after the challenger crash when -- throughout the nation, everyone had gotten up early to watch this launch and school children had experienced for the first time seeing people they knew the names of blow up in front of them and a writer at the wall street journal said i think get the girl because he needed a more sensitive writer and she had not gotten a lot of time as a speechwriter at that point. she wrote this incredible speech and there are quotes in it. we are used to being dazzled life is tough. this is part of it, but we have to move on and come together. that is an important point that

relates to what the caller was saying. do you want someone who makes us feel ok? that is why i suggest people read presidential history. we want necessarily tell you that, but it will tell you things were never totally ok, so there is some comfort to be found there but i do think we need someone who can be less divisive. at the same time, donald trump as compared to the first election he won did win the popular vote. it was not a landslide, but he won, so we have to understand and try to reconcile that with our desire for unity and also look at the large number of people who did not show up and another caller who said he was going to write in a popular singer. i understand the humor in that, but if you want third parties, really start working for third parties. if you want a more humanitarian president, work toward that.

citizenship is challenging and active and we are not used to that as americans but it is going to be necessary if that is the kind of president you want to see in office. host: just over 39 years ago, ronald reagan ending that address to the nation with these words. the crew of the space shuttle challenger honored us by the manner in which they lived their lives. we will never forget them. the last time we saw them as they prepared for their journey and wave goodbye and slipped the bonds of earth to touch the face of god. time for one more call. this is mary in michigan. caller: good morning. i am from snowy northern michigan -- lower michigan. i was wondering about -- where does the money come for the presidential libraries? is it all donated? who does design for the

contents, upkeep, and security? i was wondering because i had read where president trump received $20 million from a store done by abc news but it had to go for his presidential library. it could not go for anything else. i want to mention i have my favorite presidents and that and i think the older you get the more you remember and that. but for me a lot of it was the likability and what their wives and children did. i remember a lot of their mothers. a lot of these men, 47 men or whatever, if it was not for their lives -- wives and families they would have never been president.

my book club, we are the unofficial pete buttigieg fan club and we have congress, senate, and a governorship in 2026 and my 92 and 95-year-old ladies who have been in book club forever are hoping pete buttigieg takes one of those prizes, so thank you very much. host: i know we are a little over time, but give the final words here. guest: watching pete go out, as we call him, watching him go on fox news -- i saw someone call for him to have an opposition briefing every day and i thought that is actually brilliant because he is wonderful to watch. if you look at clips from him when he was in college, he is just a fast thinker.

he is articulate and no-nonsense. versus we have politicians who seem authentic, so i understand that very much so. there's a lot of opportunity. the current speaker of the house, the reason he is in office is because the first time he ran he ran unopposed, so i think it is a wonderful idea to look around. the money is always a central issue here. aoc has said she probably will never be president because no one would give her enough money to do so. that is true. president libraries with the exception of mount vernon, usually they have some ties to the government and get funding from the government and that allows some oversight. they do very much rely on -- at

mount vernon you have the ladies of mount vernon who tend to be conservative and do not necessarily want to tell the stories so they dictate what the experience is. millions of people a year experience presidential history appear in the obama library is more a community center. it is being built still. i have never seen a presidential library with a giant slide in it or a basketball court. that is incredible. there is constant fundraising and costly running out of money. it is not a comfortable position and every president does not get a presidential library for this reason. it is hard to raise money but i think they are wonderful centers of learning and something if you live near any sort of presidential home, museum, library, go today. it would be a wonderful moment to interact with his history and

this day. host: alexis coe is a presidential historian and senior fellow with new america. appreciate your time and happy presidents' day. guest: thank you. host: coming up a little later this morning on the washington journal, we will be joined by juan williams. we will talk about his new book, "new prize for these eyes." after this break, we will return to our question about who is your favorite president and why. phone numbers for republicans, democrats, and independents on your screen. go ahead and start calling in. as you do, we want to show you one of some of our new member inrviews, new members of the 119th congress have beenitting down with c-span to talk about their lives and careers amount why they ran for congress. it is 9:30 p.m. tonight that we will be showing several of those.

wanted to give you a little bit of a preview so you tune in later this evening. >> after graduating, i worked in finance for several years, first as an investment banker. i got to really see and experience the private sector. i got to work along -- long hours once again. i got to see a little bit of what the real world was like, how our financial system works, and the plumbing of the global economy. i think it provided a strong foundation not only for what i am doing now but for a general understanding. >> the most formative experience in my own life was serving as the caregiver to the person who would become my husband during his battle with cancer. for anyone who has been diagnosed with cancer, particularly if you have been diagnosed in your 20's, you know it is like a punch in the gut.

you never expect a hear that word at such a young age. from those first moments after his diagnosis, andy and i knew how lucky we were. we knew how lucky andy was to have health insurance that would hopefully save his life and we both knew how lucky we were to have flexibility with our jobs that allowed him to focus on the full-time job of trying to get better and me to focus on the full-time job of caring for him and eventually when he found out his cancer was terminal, to walk him to his passing. i decided to run for office because i do not believe that in delaware are state of neighbors or here in the united states that that time and ability to get care should be a matter of luck. i believe it should be the law of the land. >> and 2016, we lost my little brother to a fentanyl overdose. fentanyl that was here and should not have been. he was 20 years old. it was tragic.

i tell people it is like losing an arm and having to go through life without something that should be there that is not. that is why i am here. >> tell us more about how you felt when that happened. >> the hardest part was the shock. this was unexpected and it hurt that way. having to see my mom and dad and what that did to them, losing a son or daughter is different than losing a sibling and as a father now i understand that, but it was shocking and then you have to figure out how to move forward and you can either stop and just feel bad for yourself or do something about it. i wanted to do something about it. host: it is about 8:30 here on the east coast. we began this program asking you

who is your favorite president and why. phone lines for you to call in, republicans, (202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-8000. independents, (202) 748-8002. go ahead and call in as we show you headlines from the national papers. keeping the president in presidents' day. holiday becomes increasingly focused on retail instead of george washington. the official designation of the holiday in the federal registration -- register is george washington's birthday. here's another one. presidents' day is not just for mattresses. the history of presidents and presidents' day. we want to know, who is your favorite president and why? there is the numbers on your screen. this is deborah in north carolina, democrat. good morning.

caller: good morning. my favorite president would have to be thomas jefferson. he was deeply flawed. yes, he held slaves. yes, he did not emancipate them. i think he might have had his own private reasons. it does not excuse that, but his mind was so brilliant and he is the one that imagined and upheld the separation of church and state. if you goif you go almost anywhe in the world, i do not think you will come up with that. to me, that was brilliant, separating church from state. host: if thomas jefferson were somehow able to look to today, how do you think he would feel about that particular issue, the separation of church and state in the united states today? caller: how he would feel?

host: yes, man. -- yes, ma'am. caller: i think you would be even more in favor of a secular government. when you go sometimes -- anyway, thank you very much. host: the c-span historians' survey, the most recent in 2021, taking a look at the presidents ranking them on various individual leadership characteristics, moral authority, international relations, here is what those presidential historians say is the top 10. they include abraham lincoln, george washington, teddy

roosevelt, dwight eisenhower, harry truman, thomas jefferson at seventh, john f. kennedy, ronald reagan. rounding out the top 10, barack obama in the latest list, the one done in 2021. l.b.j. comes in at number 11 followed by james monroe and woodrow wilson. you can explore the results yourself at c-span.org or give us a call and let us know who is your favorite president and why. this is austin in new york, independent, good morning. caller: hi. i think my favorite president would have to be teddy roosevelt. i am a big fan of national parks. when it comes to his foreign policy,, the panama canal opened up a lot of opportunities for us. also, i dig the expansion of the navy. i will leave it at that. host: awesome, cliff in oak

oklahoma, who is your favorite president? caller: bill clinton. that was the most prosperous time. balanced the budget. i have friends that were personal friends with him and he was one of the most likable guys you'll ever meet. still, all-time favorite. i guess j.f.k. would be my second one. i was not quite old enough to understand politics, but i really liked him. host: what line of work for you in in the 1990's and why was it so profitable for you back then? caller: we were in the car business but also in the construction/plumbing business. it seemed like everything clicked for all the years he was in business, we were in business back then. everything seemed a lot easier for the middle class than it does now. things were a lot cheaper.

it seems like there were more opportunities. host: how do you feel about opportunities today? caller: it is tough right now. i am semi retired. this is probably the toughest i have seen the construction business. we have a lot of mexican guys working that are good tradesmen. you just cannot get people to show up and work sober now. that is the problem. you cannot really grow your business. everything has tripled or quadrupled in price. host: that is cliff in oklahoma. this is rita in ohio, republican. caller: good morning. host: who is your favorite president? caller: candidate -- kennedy. host: why. caller: because he said it is not what you can do -- it is not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country. host: how do you think americans

view that today? caller: it is in sad shape! host: that is rita in ohio. the book is about kennedy and khrushchev. it is by a long-time professor, journalist, and author who was on c-span recently to talk about that book, if you want to hear more, you can do so at c-span.org. this is summer in tennessee, democrat, good morning. caller: good morning. my favorite president was bill clinton. he was the first one i voted for and i thought he was a great president. host: why did you think he was such a great president? caller: the deficit down, i had

money in my pocket. i did not live paycheck to paycheck. it was just a good time. the 1990's was a great time. i miss them. he was not perfect by no means but he was a good president. host: what line of work were you in, in the 1990's? caller: i was in high school so i was working at mcdonald's. [laughter] host: that is summer in tennessee. this is mac in st. thomas, virgin islands, independent, good morning. caller: i have a tie between jimmy carter and kennedy. both of them were [indiscernible] [no audio] as a black man, i am not voting for barack obama. he was not bad but he was not that great.

we thought he was good but right now he is [indiscernible] have a nice day. host: that is mac in the virgin islands. this is phyllis. who is your favorite president and why? caller: good morning, john. john, i'm going to be 80 this year. the president that stuck in my mind since i am a little kid, i guess through my family, was president eisenhower. everything was good. "father knows best" and all that. am i on? host: yes. in what ways was everything good? caller: it was happy days and all the 1950's. i think it was the 1950's, right? i just got it stuck in my head for my family that he was the best. i always look at him as the father of the country. a good man.

he served in the military. i think he started the highways across america, i was told. i am not sure. host: also known for warning about the military-industrial complex. any thoughts on that? that is something that gets a lot of attention. caller: when anybody asks me who is the best president, i will say eisenhower, most of my life. host: you like ike? caller: yeah, i like ike. [laughter] host: kathleen in kentucky, good morning. go ahead. caller: uh, go ahead. host: who is your favorite president? caller: i have two favorite presidents. my number one favorite was abraham lincoln. kentucky-born. host: just listen through your

phone to me. you do not have to watch or listen to the tv. you say he was kentucky-born but illinois is known as the land of lincoln. caller: yes. i like him because he freed the slaves. i adore him. i think he was the greatest. my second favorite was barack obama. host: why obama? caller: because he was -- i just think he was really a great president. host: that is kathleen in kentucky, the bluegrass state. to the keystone state, rose, good morning. who is your favorite president? caller: my favorite president is donald j. trump.

i will tell you why. because he is running this country like a business. just like he was so successful in his business ventures, he is making our country successful. he is actually -- he thinks outside the box. that is what i like most about him. he is so in tune. a few of the callers said j.f.k. and ask not what your country can do for your country but ask what you can do for your country. that is what he is about. he is not just about giving money away to the welfare state. he does not want u.s. money to go to foreign enterprises. that is why all of his accent right now is on getting rid of usaid because all of that money was going overseas. thank you very much for taking my call. host: before you go, there is a

member of congress that wants to put donald trump's face on mount rushmore. would you support that? caller: absolutely, 100%. if you look at mount rushmore, from an artistic viewpoint, you can actually see where president trump's face would fit. yes, i agree because he has done so much for this country. there are so many things he has done that people do not even realize they take for granted. he will pull this country back to where it should be an make america great again. host: donald trump was at the daytona 500 yesterday and took the presidential limousine out on the track at the daytona 500. there is some of the video of donald trump in the presidential limousine at the daytona 500. this is kevin in massachusetts, independent, good morning. caller: hello, can you hear me?

host: yes. who is your favorite president and why? caller: george washington because he refused an offer to be king, straight up. after that, he made his cabinets in congress or whatever, he did not get all the people he agreed with. he picked people that did not agree with him, he picked people that hated him. he picked all of these different people from different walks of life and put them in a room together and said, "figure it out." and they did for better or worse back then. honorable mention to lafayette who was washington's best buddy in a lot of ways. allegedly, supposedly, lafayette had a huge influence on george washington and how he had been,

what happened in america back then. i guess lafayette made washington have a [indiscernible] or something. thank you for taking my call. host: that is kevin in massachusetts. here is a presidential artifact in today's "washington post" about george washington. for sale, a rare wartime george washington letter, $150,000. 1777 during the revolutionary war, a large british rating party attacked a supply depot burning houses and barns. it seemed like a huge loss for the american forces under george washington who had been leading the battle for independence from britain for almost two years. what on may 7, ross hinton -- washington wrote a letter to a word subordinate saying the raid had not been a disaster.

the british forces had been repeatedly attacked by the american militia as it retreated . despite the rate, washington realized the british force had been playing the countryside against them. "i am inclined to believe in the future they will pursue such measures was a great degree of caution." that letter for sale, the auction price $150,000. a focus on that letter from the collection of pennsylvania, 1777 letter, $150,000 price tag. this is patty in maryland, good morning. caller: good morning. this is so very exciting to listen to. i will say i am not an academic related to presidential history,

but at 76 years old, i might want to start studying it. it is amazing. the thing i wanted to say is this is based more on gut emotions and also looking at the world right now. the first president that came to my mind is jimmy carter. what i saw and what i heard recently is his intention to consider the whole world in his actions and with his own hands, he went out and was trying to be the change he wanted to see in the world. that habitat for humanity right there. i guess i'm feeling strongly at this minute about him because of what the world is dealing with at the moment. the emphasis on global and doing what you can for the world, i thought that was very important,

and timely right to be pondering . each of the presidents react to the world in their own ways. they all have strengths and weaknesses. i was particularly drawn to him and barack obama of course. in my mind, he was that unifier with the ability to speak in a way that helped us all rise up and think about people who were not being served and receiving attention. i think that is on a level where a lot of the academic rigor that goes into deciding those things would use. that is just for me. i am headed to a rally today in frederick, maryland, along with hopefully lots of cities right now trying to put a voice out there to ask, ask for individual help to help presidents know what serves us all best.

host: what is the rally? caller: it is just -- it came through me, for ucla. it is just kind of a go and say your piece, it is a protest. it is for people voicing what their big concerns are around things happening unlawfully, things around immigration. in our town, there is legislation that is not helpful for immigrants. people are going to be allowed to go into churches and do raids. it is people realizing their voice might matter and speaking up. it is probably going to be on lots of subjects. it is in frederick. they said tv cameras might be there. i do not know what else is going on around the world, but i am there. host: is it with the 50/50 one movement? caller: i think so. host: a story on that today from npr. thank you for the phone call.

these demonstrations are being organized by the 50501 movement in response to what organizers describe as antidemocratic and illegal actions of the trump administration and will be held on february 5, being held today. this is gary. good morning. caller: good morning to all my veteran friends paid i really like president kennedy and stuff. one of my mother's friends had a friend who was an fbi man. he took care of john-john and carolyn. i really liked them. i think trump is doing a pretty

good job. i worked at the mines for 30 years. i kind of vote for the guy i think is good. it does not matter which party. that is just the way i am. i appreciate president biden voted against nippon buying our steel company. trump is against it, too. i hope everything goes good now. i have been watching fox channel. there is a lot of different things they say, all of these congressmen are making so much money. pelosi made $300 million. she has been there a long time. that is a lot of money for anyone to make. people do not realize all these people are making so much money in congress. it is unfair to the people. thank you very much for taking my call. host: that is gary in minnesota. you mentioned fox news.

juan williams of fox news will be joining us to talk about his new book, pres. biden: --"new prize for these eyes." stick around for that as we take you to the land of lincoln, tom, democrat. caller: good morning. to me, without question, the greatest president in the history of the country has got to be franklin delano roosevelt. he is my idol and sort of amazing, 4-term president who got america through the great depression and through world war ii while he was in a wheelchair, mind you. he also created social security which we still use today and rely on, and other safety net programs for americans during what was probably the toughest part of american history, you

could argue, for modern history at least in the 20th century. in the modern sense, i would choose bill clinton. we had a great economy because he work in bipartisan fashion to bring down the national debt. he had a surplus by the end of his term economically. he also expanded our global reach economically, international trade after the berlin wall had come down, and we had a successful military operation in bosnia under clinton. if it were not for the monica lewinsky scandal, he would have been left off as one of our greatest presidents. thank you for your time. host: you mentioned f.d.r.

after f.d.r., they changed the rule of presidents being able to run for as many terms as they want. do you think that was a good idea? do you think two terms for a president is enough? do you think we should be able to elect presidents to a third term if we want to as a country? caller: i think two terms are enough now. i would argue this talk of donald trump going three terms is ridiculous, especially because he was impeached twice, or any president going to long sometimes, power goes to their heads and you cannot get rid of them. there are plenty of capable people to be president. i think the tour term -- two-term policy is correct. caller: my favorite president is

andrew who is being maligned because it has become unfavorable to address the most grievous problem in our country which is the money. was the only president to completely pay off the national debt -- andrew jackson was the only president to completely pay off the debt. he realized along the banks to earn interest was hurting the entire population. in contrast to donald trump, i heard some callers claiming donald trump was their favorite president. andrew jackson served with distinction in several different conflicts. if i recall correctly, donald trump avoided his draft notice to serve in the vietnam war. host: that is kevin in atlanta.

this is jennifer in illinois, the independent line, good morning. caller: the greatest president of course is franklin delano roosevelt who was deeply -- is deeply despised by today's republicans and always has been ever since he served. the worst president is the man we have in there now and we have to get him out of there. he never should have been elected in the first place. how did this man get elected? the reason is racism. . white men especially wanted to make sure the blacks in this country got no further and they were moving and getting more and more benefits for themselves through joe biden, and they wanted to stop that as soon as possible. white men in this country gave us donald trump. he is going to be the downfall of the united states. host: that is jennifer in

illinois. this is the new york post editorial board, the headline from yesterday. "this presidents' day, remember what george president can teach us" and donald trump. presidents' day is officially still washington's birthday, as every american should happily honor our first chief executive. born in aristocrat, he carefully cultivated his virtues and strengths to become the most widely admired president, first in the 13 colonies and then the new nation. he also set the future course of u.s. government itself. he understood he was setting precedence that had to last even as many disagreed on what precise form our government should take.

washington emphasized america was a republic. he rebuked those who wanted a monarchy or exalted president. as we move through the aftermath of a bitterly fought election, they write it is important to remember george washington's example. the editorial board of the new york post. this is terrell in maryland, democrat, good morning. who is your favorite president and why? caller: i have three. i like jimmy carter because i bought my first home. i like bill clinton because i bought my second home. and i like barack obama because i bought my last home. and he was a good unifier. can i give you two of my worst? host: sure. caller: my worst, one of my worst times in my life was from 1984 to 1988 under ronald reagan. i was a steelworker for bethlehem steel.

i almost lost my first home under ronald reagan because he did not help the steelworkers. the other one is -- can i ask you a question about ronald reagan? did ronald reagan have dementia? i remember back watching the news, i remember hearing the newscaster, one of our national news people, say he was falling asleep at g7 meetings. that is a form of dementia. can you tell me whether he had dementia or not? host: may a presidential historian might be better. ronald reagan diagnosed with alzheimer's in 1994. there has been a ton of research about when the symptoms started. you mentioned ronald reagan. this is michael on facebook saying reagan was his favorite president. he made conservatism mainstream.

he had previous expanse in the entertainment industry and potics. he h areat sense of humor and got on well with his political opponents. that is from facebook. looking at your comments on social media asking who your favorite president was and why. this is david in indiana, republican, good morning. caller: good morning. my favorite president was abraham lincoln. of all the presidents we had, lincoln was the only president of the disunited states. he served very well. host: david, abraham lincoln is the president known to have the most books written about him. he perhaps has the most books written about him besides jesus christ.

that is something from the publishing industry. have you read any abraham lincoln books? caller: it has been quite a few years when i was back in high school. host: what did you read about abraham lincoln? caller: i read about that he was very poor, had very humble beginnings. he was honest. he was known for his honesty, and it was very difficult for him to work his way out, but he did. he ran against a very popular politician and beat him. he was for the people. he really was for the people. paid for it with his life when he was assassinated. he is the only president of the disunited states that we had.

that makes a big difference to me. host: that is david in indiana. one of the many books about abraham lincoln, this one recently out from nigel hamilton. jefferson davis is that davis. "the war of the presidents" was featured on c-span's booktv. you can watch nigel hamilton talking about his book. debbie in ohio, democrat, good morning. caller: thank you. i am torn between two. i love teddy roosevelt and my favorite is andrew jackson. i like to look at someone's back story. he was born very poor, orphaned early. hour only president to have been a prisoner of war at the age of 18 and the american revolution. he refused to polish a british soldier's boot and the soldier took a sword to his face and

scarred him. he was in the war of 1812. he didn't shoot a man in a duel but it was to protect his wife's -- he did shoot a man in a duel, but it was to protect his wife's honor. and donald j. trump third. thank you. host: stick around. an hour left this morning. in that time, a conversation with fox news analyst juan williams. 's new book is out, "new prize for these eyes." we will be right back. ♪ >> commemorate presidents' day by shopping online at c-spanshop.org where you can save up to 25% on apparel,

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segregation. i bring that perspective to oregon saying my mom was a rural kid that did not have a lot of opportunities, but i'm going to make sure i bring that forward for all the kids in oregon. >> watch new members of congress all this week starting at 9:30 eastern on c-span. democracy, it is not just an idea, it is a process. a process shaped by leaders elected to the highest offices and entrusted to a select few with guarding its basic principles. it is where debates unfold, decisions are made, and the nation's course is charted. democracy in real-time. this is your government at work. this is c-span, giving you your democracy unfiltered. >> nonfiction book lovers, c-span has a number of podcasts for you.

listen to best-selling nonfiction authors and influential interviewers. and wide-ranging conversations with nonfiction authors and others making things happen. and weekly hour-long conversations that regularly feature fascinating authors of nonfiction books on a wide variety of topics. find all of our podcasts by downloading the free c-span now app, or wherever you get your podcasts. and on our website. >> "washington journal" continues. host: author and fox news political analyst juan williams joins us. his latest book was released last month, "new prize for these eyes: the rise of america's second civil rights movement." what do you mean by america's second civil rights movement? how is it different from the first movement that shaped america in the 1960's and

1970's? guest: i wrote about that in a book published nearly 40 years ago called "eyes on the prize." i do not know it was the first civil rights movement. some say what happened after civil war reconstruction was the first movement. growing up in america, for me, it was the first civil rights movement. i think it is the major civil rights movement of the 20th century, beginning with brown be. -- brown v. board. the idea was they would enforce laws regardless of race. passage of the civil rights act and the voting rights act. everybody has the right to vote. i think we are now in the midst of a second movement. times have shifted. people ask, if there is a second

movement, where is dr. king? we do not have a dr. king in the second movement. they say, what is the agenda? there is an obvious agenda in terms of black lives matter and issues like how the policeman kn eeled on george floyd's neck for several minutes until he died. it is different from the legislative agenda. now, you have a movement, i like this analogy put in the first movement, you had the great march on washington. in one day, 250 thousand people. after george floyd, you had marches in the thousands all over america, all over the globe. there were millions of people, even just in the united states, more than 26 million people marched. you can see this is a bigger movement. you have people asking me about, where is dr. king in the second movement, who is the leader? i say this is a 24/7 movement.

you see it online in messages, images. you saw it in the image of the george floyd case. that would not have blown up the way it did unless you had social media amplifying it 24/7. host: when did the second movement began? -- begin? guest: i think it began in 2004 when barack obama spoke at the democratic national convention. it is a famous speech. i bet you can even remember that he said we are not a black america, white america, latino america, asian america, we are the united states of america. when he said that, everybody said, this is a different vision of america coming from a black leader. typically, if you think back to dr. king or forward to jesse jackson, al sharpton, people have been talking about the problems in black america or the debt owed to black america given slavery and rampant discrimination. but here was a young black man standing up saying my story

would not been possible in any other country but america. it was an optimistic forward-looking vision. we could have a new way of thinking about race in america. suddenly, this concept emerges of a post-racial america. now, you have discussions about how can america be different especially given the fact of huge demographic shifts. in the first movement, 90% of america was white. second movement, it is like 60%. blacks are still about 10%, 13% of the population. hispanics are the largest minority. asians the fastest growing minority. it is a different conversation. host: let me bring viewers back to that moment at the democratic national convention. barack obama gets up to speak. here is about two minutes. [video clip] >> even as we speak, there are those preparing to divide us, spin masters, negative ad

peddlers, who embrace the politics of anything goes. well, i say to them tonight there is not a liberal america and a conservative america. there is the united states of america! [cheers and applause] >> there is not a black america, white america, latino america, asian america. there is the united states of america! [cheers and applause] >> the pundits like to slice and dice our country into red states and blue states. red states for republicans, blue states for democrats. but i have news for them too. we worship an awesome god in the blue states and we do not like the federal government poking around our libraries in the red states. we coach little league in the blue states. and yes, we have gay friends in the red states. there are patriots who oppose the war in iraq and who supported the war in iraq.

we are one people, all of us pledging allegiance to the stars and stripes, all of us defending the united states of america! [cheers and applause] host: where were you that night? guest: in the boston fleet center for the speech. it was a really interesting moment. i was there is a political analyst for fox news. i am standing there with some of the politicians. i saw the image ahead of jackson. i think i was right there. people were talking. it was like a convention. it was a meet and greet, how are you? no one was paying attention to an unknown state senator from illinois. but as he spoke, something was changing in the air. suddenly, there was more quiet. as you saw, people started responding, and the standing ovations, you could tell something was happening. it was a very special moment

obviously in terms of the political career of a future president. but i think something else was happening in terms of the start of the second civil rights movement. host: you mentioned jesse jackson. what was the relationship between jesse jackson and barack obama, or more broadly the old guard of the first civil rights movement and what emerged as you describe as the second civil rights movement? guest: i think it is clear jackson did not see obama as a man to rise to become the next great black politician after him. jackson comes out of the civil rights movement of dr. king and has an image, a theory of civil rights that is quite different. i think he hoped his son, jesse jackson jr. would become the next great black political leader. instead, here comes this young man from the same state, illinois, with a very different

take on things, much more optimistic, forward-looking and i think maybe it hits a low point when obama is speaking about the issue of black men, families, responsibility, children. jackson says, why is he talking down to black people, why is he lecturing black america? that kind of thing. that relationship was never a very good one as you see subsequently when obama goes to the white house, he turns to al sharpton as his emissary to the black community. jackson is sort of left out of that. host: in the second civil rights movement, you talk about the dynamic between barack obama and what he represented and black lives matter and what that means for the second civil rights movement.

explain that dynamic. guest: black lives matter emerges after the murder of trayvon martin. martin is murdered in 2012, the verdict is in 2013i believe. when this young man coming home with skittles and iced tea, a volunteer security guard confronts him because he thinks the kid looks suspicious or something, they get into a confrontation, the kid is shot. but police do not arrest the killer right away. it is only under pressure. when he is tried, he is acquitted. three women out west say, that child's life mattered. i do not care if you think he was dressed in a hoodie or look suspicious, black lives matter. that takes off. you have other cases that occur after that. eric gardner, maybe most famously michael brown in ferguson, missouri, which i reference at the start of the book about whether obama will go

to ferguson. it is in that period that you see a civil structure taking place. again, no dr. king, no hierarchy. this black lives matter movement is kind of all over. it is all over the internet. can be -- it can be in one city under one group of people and in another city under another group of people. it is a different kind of movement. then you get the opposition that forms in part in opposition to obama. you get the tea party opposition not only to spending and bailouts for financial institutions, failing out wall street not main street. but with the affordable care act, i think it really takes shape. you see it very racial, very angry. people saying you want to take away my health insurance, you want to raise my taxes, take

care of these other people in america. host: you explained it in your book through the history of the first civil rights movement. page 108 of your book, here is a split that had been evident in the split was between thevement. nonviolent, compromising strategies of dr. king versus the mitant, " by any means necessary" commands of leaders like the black panthers. in the second vent, the split became a canyon between obama's approach and black lives matter's call for immediate action. guest: it is striking. this is one of the ongoing tensions and dramas of even this moment in the second civil rights movement, that you see the people in the leadership of black lives matter and

especially some of the activists in the local communities. can you imagine, they refused to meet with the person who has the grandest pulpit, the bully pulpit and american life, the president of the united states, and the president is a black man? you would think they would see an opportunity here to influence public policy and politics, but they are sort of dismissive of politics and politicians as those people are kind of cynical about the role of politics and american life and do not see it as honest and authentic. so, they move away from it. president obama is very damning ultimately about this. he says you have to understand the nature of politics is compromised, working with people, and staying in the fight. you cannot just turn your back on it. from that perspective, it leads to the defeat of hillary clinton in 2016 because you see black turnout go down. there are questions about whether hillary clinton is

dedicated to this movement and all of that. it is fascinating. that is why i was taken with it. it is a fascinating aspect of this story. you would not anticipate in thinking about a second civil rights movement that they would turn on black politicians. going back to the way you asked the question, how this is rooted in the first movement. the first movement, when you think about the voting rights act, the great hope is there will be more black politicians to better represent the interests of black americans. there will be more women politicians representing the interests of women, latinos, etc. now in the second movement, you get young people saying we have a black president, black mayors, black governors, i do not see that there is more employment, less violence, better schools. so, there is complaints about these black politicians coming from some of the activists in the second movement. host: juan williams with us

talking about his new book, "new prize for these eyes." he is with us until the end of our program today. want to invite viewers to join the conversation. you can do so on the phone lines as usual. republicans, 202-748-8001. democrats, 202-748-8000. independents, 202-748-8002. you wrote "eyes on the prize" after the first civil rights movement as you describe it. you are writing "new prize for these eyes" amid the second civil rights movement. how did that change how you as an analyst and historian wrote about these two movements? guest: i think the big difference here is that after i wrote "eyes on the prize" it was people in the movement who reacted so well. it was a companion volume to the

pbs series of the same name done by a brilliant film maker in boston. this time, i am on my own. i think one of the big differences is as you point out, barack obama is alive. when i wrote "eyes on the prize," dr. king, the leading figure, was passed. it is also the case right now that i think it is evident in the second civil rights movement that we are consistently working on an emerging third civil rights movement. i did not have that in mind when i wrote "eyes on the prize" about the first movement. i saw it as a contained, separate thing. the second movement is not like the first movement, as i'm been discussing with you. but it has roots in the first movement. but it is its own entity. as we see the arguments ongoing coming from the trump administration, especially over diversity, equity, and

inclusion, you see these arguments forcing conversations about identity politics, as president trump calls it. is race a legitimate consideration in hiring, in who gets into college, in cultural representation, who is on tv or in the movies? is it a legitimate issue to be considered in terms of police action or in the classroom? whose story is told as american history? i am shocked, i have got to tell you. even as i came in this morning, i heard on the radio in easton maryland, they had to cancel a frederick douglass day parade because the national guard has been told under trump's executive order they are not allowed to participate to support a frederick douglass day holiday. for a while, the air force stopped making mention in videos

for recruits about the tuskegee airmen, because we are not going to mention diversity and the fact that this group of black men even in a time of awful segregation moved airplanes to fight for the united states of america against oppressive forces in europe. this is unbelievable. this is an ongoing conversation that we are in the midst of right now as i am writing this book. we are in a conversation about the legitimate role of race in american society that is a society more diverse, more mixed than ever. host: why do you think donald trump won more black voters in 2024 than any republican in nearly 50 years? double his support among black men from 2020. in light of everything you just described, explain those numbers from the 2024 election. guest: i think a lot of young

activists, especially young black men are of the opinion the status quo is not great for me. in terms of employment opportunities, in terms of high rates of incarceration. i think it is still one in every three young black men is going to deal with the justice system in the country. they are saying look at the schools, look at the job picture. look at the opportunities for me going forward in this country. they are looking for change. they are looking for disruption. they have a lot of anger at government and all the rest. there is some populist connection with the kind of grievance president trump offers so aggressively to white america, especially white men. host: juan williams with us, taking your phone calls. this is richard in maryland, democrat, good morning. caller: good morning. mr. williams, before i ask my question, i want to say you were

cut from the same cloth as calling balls, strikes, and fouls, as you do every week on fox news. as it relates to barack obama, i think the greatest political advice he ever received was what congressman wrangle told him in 2006 or 2007 when he was preparing to run. he said barack obama is a smart guy, he has a great future in politics, but he was not ready for the job yet. he was not saying that in a demeaning way but he knew the experience it requires to be president of the united states and mr. obama did not have that. he told him be a senator, learned sausage making.

i think that is something you would have told him if you have the chance to do so as well. some things you do have to compromise on. but sometimes, you have to make a fist, a vein has to pop out of your neck fighting for what you believe in. as you mentioned the frederick douglass story, i saw that, it was most troubling. on npr this week, to add to that most troubling story, high school students, caucasian in high schools are holding auctions online trying to auction off their black schoolmates. i think that is equally as troubling. one even had the ugliness to say possibly we need another holocaust. we are in troubling times, mr. williams.

thank you for your untiring efforts in this discussion. host: richard, thank you for the call. let me let juan williams jump in. guest: i remember when ebony magazine in 2009 i believe ran a cover, and it said, "in our lifetime." it had a picture of a black president. it was unbelievable for you and me that this occurred. i think when you think about some of the advice and people cautioning obama about moving too quickly, i think a lot of those people were backing hillary clinton at the time thinking she is more likely to win and obama needed to bide his time and learn the sausage making. but incredibly, there was a

black president in our lifetime. obama won twice, he won reelection. what are the ripples of this? part of that story has to do with we are at a moment when so many young black people, young activists question what is going on with black politicians and why there have not been more results from the election of black people into high office in this country. host: in our lifetime, are we really witnessing the election of the first black president? that is the cover of ebony magazine craig it was march, 2008, edition, looking ahead to the election that year. in your book, "new prize for these eyes," you are somewhat critical of black lives matter

and how they have tried to further the second civil rights movement. what do you see as the failings of black lives matter? guest: we can start with something like defund the police. that is well known as a slogan, but it comes from a small slice of people. what it does is it feeds the opposition because most people say we live in a society where there is violence and crime and we need police. it made them seem like they were out of step. i think it distracted from their main message or attempt at a main message which is about delivering on equity, inclusion, justice for all, and raising a mayor -- awareness of racism in american society. i think there is another level. i find this part tragic. in their reluctance to engage in hierarchical leadership, they also did not engage in

accountable leadership. so come you get people saying things, doing things like defund the police all different places and claiming they are black lives matter. huge amounts of money flowed into black lives matter. the account to billy for that money often not there -- the accountability for that money often not there, no transparency. and then the money going into pockets of friends and relatives and being unaccounted for, hurting the credibility of black lives matter. host: that moment in 2004, you say he started the second civil rights movement. could he have been more of that voice, or did he try to do that? guest: he did not say he started it. i said he started it. he said he is not a post-racial president. he is a president of the united

states of america. i think it was a difficult dance for him. at the start of the book, i talk about ferguson, and the question of does he go to ferguson. ultimately, he does not. the question was there because there had never been a black president. there was the idea you would send a president into a race riot type of situation. with a black president, there was a notion he could offer a soothing message that would resolve the issue. but when it comes to obama, i think you have seen obama in various speeches, and this is part of the difference with jesse jackson and others, he has you've got to have compromise. you may be so resolute and so righteous in your indignation, but you have to deal with politics and people and even people who oppose you in devising some resolution to the problem. so obama was always reaching out, trying to get those young people not only to work with him

, at times to come to washington and come to the white house. it was extraordinary. but what is so interesting to me is you can see it persist among young people who say politics is just not for them or they do not trust it. you are on with juan williams. caller: he made reference to trayvon martin. it is my recollection that with that situation there was an eyewitness who said he was pounding george zimmerman. with regard to michael brown, it is my recollection there were multiple witnesses who indicated the hands up, don't shoot incident never happened, that the police officer, darren wilson, that michael brown was

struggling with darren wilson to get his gun away from him. do you feel both of these individuals in these incidents were blameless? guest: not faultless and not blameless. in the trayvon martin case, i think it is recorded clearly that trayvon martin was coming home with a drink and candies and was not involved in any criminal activity of any kind. nobody says that. when he was stopped by this voluntary security guard, confronted, then they got into a struggle. some fight breaks out, but trayvon martin is not the one with the gun and obviously he is the one who sadly is killed at 17 years of age. the other one, there are lots of arguments about exactly what took place.

but what is obvious in that case , the police officer was found not responsible, but what happens is the young man's body is left of the street for several hours. people are alarmed by this. i do not know what the young men had done or what he was up to, but why would you treat him in this fashion? i think you have to understand a larger picture here. some people especially on the right would say there is some way you could say these young men were responsible for their demise. i think there is a larger picture that says, these young men, certainly not in trayvon martin's case, may have been up to something or something was going on, but is at the end result for -- that we would want

for our own child in a situation like this? obviously not. host: a question from edward in new jersey. will we end the racial wealth gap in our lifetime? guest: this is a key point in terms of the second movement. there is this conversation about things like the phrase systemic racism or critical race theory and it is often said in a condemning way, but this is part of what we are dealing with in the second civil rights movement. much of this comes back to income inequality and people saying if you look -- i talked about poor quality schools in black and latino neighborhoods and we still have high levels of black and latinos in schools attended by blacks and latinos almost to the exclusion of whites and then you come forward on that toward employment

opportunities, high rates of incarceration, even on death row if you look over the last 40 years it is 30 plus percent of the people executed are black men when blacks were about 13% of the population. so you come to understand all of this makes for this moment in a second civil rights era even as people say are you sure this is the second movement? this is different. the demographics are different. the agenda is different. the leadership is different. host: this is mike, and defendant. good morning. -- independent. good morning. caller: i was raised catholic. i had quite a bit of catholic guilt. i do not see any need for white guilt. i do believe i have benefited from white privilege. i went to public school up to the eighth grade and an all boys

high school after that. pope francis -- i hope he gets better. but i must say i went to kent state in 1971 and i had a black roommate, very informative, to say the least. we were both worried in 1970 and he was still concerned about jackson state in mississippi, very tremendous times at that time to say the least. i remember him telling me how difficult it was for his parents to switch parties in 1964. they left kennedy but voted for nixon because he was true to eisenhower and they liked eisenhower, but in 1964, they say goldwater scared them and

said to leave the gop was not easy to do but they had to do that. i learned a lot, more than i could ever learn in a textbook. one last thing, if i may say, when it comes to president obama, somebody on fox news claimed his father was an anti-colonialist from kenya and his mother was a hippie from kansas. a hippie from kansas in 1962? hippies on the east and west coast were a dime a dozen, but hippies from kansas must be extremely precious. insulting both his mom at his father is beyond the pale. guest: people get personal in these attacks, especially on

someone with such a high profile as obama. it is petty. it does not speak to the historical significance of what obama did in terms of becoming the first black president, but even on a larger scale, helping america launch a new civil rights era in which we think about race differently -- i think a lot of the pettiness that you refer to is from people who really do not want to open their own eyes to what is taking place now in this new era where you have, as i said, about a 60% population that is white, not 90%, and which you have varying voices, people of different races. creating a kind of discussion about what is appropriate in

this multiracial, multiethnic america. what is legitimate in terms of consideration of race, opportunity, and the rest? it is very difficult. people sometimes have nostalgia for when it was mostly white america and did have to hear all these voices raising different issues. discussions of race can make us uncomfortable, but when you hear something like president trump the other day after a plane crash say diversity, equity, and inclusion is to blame without evidence, you think, something is going on here. why would the president of the united states do that? he is the guy who said that black lives matter is a hate symbol. he is the guy who pardons insurrectionists with ties to white supremacist groups. he is the guy who has been endorsed by the kkk and you understand something important in terms of racial discussion

and racial tension is taking place in america at this time. we are in the midst of the second civil rights movement. host: you began your book with this quote from barack obama before he was president at the 2007 some of voting rights commemoration. the previous generation pointed the way. they took us 90% of the way there. the question i have today is what is called of us in this joshua generation. what do we do to fulfill that legacy, to fulfill the obligations and debt we owe to those who allowed us to be here today? what is the moses and joshua generation? guest: we have both seen the martin luther king memorial. dr. king is a revered figure. that is the moses generation, if you wanted to personify it. you had people like john lewis.

you think of them as people who were parting the waters, if you will. to create a moment of opportunity for their children to come. we are now living through the early 21st century the joshua generation. the young people who are trying to establish a new way of life in terms of race in america and obama in that speech is asking, what is called on us to do? what is our responsibility to live up to the great sacrifices that were made by people in that first civil rights era? to me it is clear have to establish an agenda that allows for alliances to be built. when i say alliances, i am talking about between black lives matter and make america

great. they have to talk to each other. you have to allow -- black lives matter -- i do not know that you sob black lives matter create alliances with people invested in abortion rights and abortion opposition. there is an opportunity for people to work together on what is a powerful political issue. >> was the fear if you start to do that you -- and you make those alliances? guest: it is just not clear. you did not have a set group of people as the leadership. so you had different people with different agendas and different willingness to reach out. you had some people who were willing to reach out to the lgbtq community and others who were not. you had people willing to say we have to have discussions with local politicians and others who were not.

it is not clear. host: do you think this will be the lesson of the second civil rights movement? does a third civil rights movement more likely have the martin luther king figure, somebody that is leading that movement and talking about accountability and making alliances and less diffuse than what we have seen in the second? guest: i am not sure if it is going to be less diffuse or more concentrated and centralized in terms of that leadership, but i think to your point -- you think of someone like stacey abrams in georgia who was in the state legislature but then led even as a politician very civil rights activist type policy and terms of fighting voter suppression that led to georgia electing a jewish senator and a black senator. i do not think there's any question that was powerful, progressive action by a

politician or was it by an activist? she is a politician. do you get people like that now? do you get alliances across racial lines, even across political lines? that is what you need. in this moment, with so much tension around president trump and race, people tend to forget that black lives matter is still well thought of by a majority of americans. it used to be 60% of white people embraced black lives matter after the george floyd incident. now it is about 50% plus, but it is still a majority of americans think this is right, that diversity, equity, and inclusion -- think that we do have to make sure there is a level playing field for all of us regardless of race in america and we have to understand the history of this country and the

disadvantage given to people of color and women. people think of course but you would not know it in this moment because everything is so polarized and people are at each other's throats. in terms of a third movement, you will have to have leadership of some kind willing to formalize and to business with politicians and win elections. host: the book out last month, "new prize for these eyes." juan williams on his book tour. he will be out in tucson next month. c-span will cover the c-span festival of books. you have about 15 minutes left to call in and ask your questions. this is in north carolina. thanks for waiting. caller: i was thinking about the election we just had an people saying a lot of blacks did not show up for kamala.

i want to let you guys know i am a black african-american and i do love this country, but i was just thinking about all the white women who was about abortion and all the hispanics that was about trying to get ahead in america, just like the palestinians and the old white women who talk about the eggs are high. we talk a lot about civil rights, but it just is to the point of civil but not right. we got a president right now who will do anything he can to eliminate the black race. it is not about hispanics or white women. it is about us. now they are going through the archives and martin luther king. i want to remind you to comes to these events, and i wanted to see if you can speak on this,

things will come out that will try to get black america in the streets again. i hope my people do not fall for it. they want is in the streets for him to show his dominant power, but i want to see if that could be one of the scenarios. guest: to me -- i am a journalist. i -- john was asking me the difference about writing about a first civil rights movement and a civil rights movement -- the second civil rights movement. that i see taking place right now. you are talking about something that has not happened that could happen. i hope it does not happen, but i understand what you're talking about because i see -- it is unbelievable to me the kind of antagonism being directed at people of color, progressives,

democrats from this white house. i think they are trying to stir people up and i do not know what -- to what end. i do not know. it plays to grievance politics, i guess. it may be go after the democrats, but it is not bringing us together. it is not unifying politics and you said you think it is aimed at all -- at blacks. who can ignore the fact that the president of the united states recently promoted or hired a man who wrote that if you want things done right in america you have to get a white male to do it? the guy wrote this in october. he is working for trump now. there are talks about immigrants poisoning the blood of the nation these are things that are very divisive and to your mind it could be that he wants people in the streets, angry and stirred up.

we have seen a little bit of that with black lives matter, if you remember after the george floyd case, people protesting in lafayette and trump coming out of the white house with general milley and others and people being pushed aside and beaten. i hope not. maybe you are more prophetic than i am, but i hope not. host: when january 6 gets talked about, donald trump often points back to black lives are and cities burning. you talk a little about that in the book. what do you make of donald trump making the comparison or switching to that discussion when january 6 comes up? guest: it is self-serving. it is so telling that the way he talked about black lives matter protests would make you think

these were violent, disruptive protests. host: cities burning is the term. guest: yet when people who monitor protests globally looked at the black lives matter march -- marches and protests, 90% plus were peaceful marches. instead of focusing on the good, here was trump picking on instances where there were fights or a fire or somebody looted a store. and saying that is the true nature of black lives matter. it is just not true and i want to reiterate more than two thirds of white americans supported black lives matter after the george floyd murder. and most of the people who marched were white americans. he would not know that listening to the kind of rhetoric that you heard from president trump back in 2020. so when he talks about the

cities corrupt and filled with crime -- i think think about his claim of election fraud. where was it aimed? at the same cities. what is going on in the cities? higher populations of minorities. he is saying somehow they are cheating him. to me, it is a very not only divisive but demagoguery of a type that can lead to trouble. i think you heard some of that from a previous caller. host: chris rights, we will celebrate the 60th anniversary of the summa, montgomery march. do you see any landmark legislation on the horizon needed for our country to continue to progress? guest: after the george floyd case, there was an effort in washington at police reform. you saw people like mitch mcconnell and others say i'm open to that, to this idea, but

it was stopped ultimately. the police unions and working with some people who are far-right would not agree to the terms necessary for a police reform bill. i think that would make a big difference in terms of legislation here in the second civil rights movement because the whole notion of police brutality and how police deal with young black people when you think about the argument over stop and frisk in new york and other places and what is legitimate and what is not legitimate, this is the conversation we need to have. we need to have an honest conversation about race and policing. here i am sitting, a black man living in washington, d.c.. i often say to people i know if i'm shot and killed on the street it is more likely that the shooter is going to be a

black teenager than a white cop, so i want to have a conversation about violence, crime, police. i go into the corner stores and drugstores and see the items locked up because of high levels of theft and shoplifting. i think this is ridiculous. it is crazy. this is a conversation we as americans can have and need to have, but i theme moment we are not having it because things are so polarized and people do not have that conversation, you could say the wrong thing, you do not want to take that risk. i think we need to take that risk and that is the optimistic vision. you know obama's famous campaign sign was hope. my hope is we are now maybe post trump, at the point where people will say we need to have an honest conversation in this

country because we are such a racial mix and for us to succeed and not the chinese and russians and others to divide us, we have to come to some understanding among ourselves. host: just a few minutes left with juan williams. . this is steven in arizona, republican. good morning. caller: good morning. i like to say that -- i would like to say that the minorities that i know that voted for republicans this time, and all respect to juan, they do not want to be told how to think. there's a lot of that going on on the other side. being told you have to vote democrat because of your minority status. i think a lot of people are turned off by that today.

i would like to know his comments on that. guest: sure. anybody trying to tell you what you should do, i think people get turned off. we were talking earlier -- john asked me why about a quarter of young black men, 50% of latino men, voted for trump given what we are discussing here this morning. the answer is they do not like the status quo. they do not want to be told how to think about their circumstances and opportunities and what they see as an uncertain future. they want politicians who are speaking to their interests and helping them and their families move forward, but when you think about those young people you have to understand even today, now that trump is in office, the numbers have shifted. now it is the case overwhelmingly, 80% plus of

blacks disapprove of what trump has been doing, the attacks on d.e.i. we have been discussing but latinos are almost in the same place. close to 80% opposition to trump at this moment, now that he is in office. whites still approve of trump and that is why his numbers -- i think he is over 50% approval generally at the moment, but you should understand where you saw some erosion in terms of black and latino and even women support for trump tray the election, now as trump is in office and the chaos ensues, you are seeing again that blacks and latinos in particular are coming together in opposition to trump. host: final paragraph of your latest book, "new prize for these eyes." the second civil rights movement is the door to a burgeoning third civil rights movement.

what are the goals and your mind? what will be the goals of a third civil rights movement? guest: when i talk to you about honest conversation, we need to come as americans trying to achieve justice for all and a sense of common destiny and common goal, i think that is the goal of the third civil rights movement. it is saying i see u.s. human and i -- i see you as human. we both live here in this town or whatever. but we want some progress. we do not want to be just locked in to the anger and division. we want to have some sense of progress and movement. movement in terms of race relations in a positive way. host: how does the second civil

rights movement end? when does it end? how does the third movement began? guest: let's stick with the second movement. i would say at this moment the first movement ended. what i saw was that a second movement began with obama opening the store, the idea of post-racial, that we can get away from arguments and the kind of principles that defined the first civil rights movement, which was segregation, slavery, legal discrimination, and the like. you start a second civil rights movement and i think a third civil rights movement comes when people again think we need to move beyond this kind of acidic division that is taking us nowhere, but how do we do it? i do not know if we rise up and say as a group i understand there is no right and wrong.

instead there is in america in which we see each other as our best opportunity for a good future for our children. host: the book "new prize for these eyes." you know the author, juan williams. that is going to do it for us this morning on the "washington journal." in the meantime, happy presidents' day. have a great monday. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2025] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] ♪

>> watching in and across the country. the president of the alliance for manufacturing, scott paul explains trump administration and tariff policies. and then natosha hall she talks about the latest in the fragile cease-fire between israel and hamas and the trump administration gaza plans. and taylor popielarz discusses white house news of the day. join the conversation live at 7:00 eastern tuesday morning on c-span, c-span now or online at c-span.org. >> all this week, watched c-span's new members of congress series, where we