this program asking you who is your favorite president and why. phone lines for you to call in, republicans, (202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-8000. independents, (202) 748-8002. go ahead and call in as we show you headlines from the national papers. keeping the president in presidents' day. holiday becomes increasingly focused on retail instead of george washington. the official designation of the holiday in the federal registration -- register is george washington's birthday. here's another one. presidents' day is not just for mattresses. the history of presidents and presidents' day. we want to know, who is your favorite president and why? there is the numbers on your screen. this is deborah in north

carolina, democrat. good morning. caller: good morning. my favorite president would have to be thomas jefferson. he was deeply flawed. yes, he held slaves. yes, he did not emancipate them. i think he might have had his own private reasons. it does not excuse that, but his mind was so brilliant and he is the one that imagined and upheld the separation of church and state. if you goif you go almost anywhe in the world, i do not think you will come up with that. to me, that was brilliant, separating church from state. host: if thomas jefferson were somehow able to look to today, how do you think he would feel about that particular issue, the

separation of church and state in the united states today? caller: how he would feel? host: yes, man. -- yes, ma'am. caller: i think you would be even more in favor of a secular government. when you go sometimes -- anyway, thank you very much. host: the c-span historians' survey, the most recent in 2021, taking a look at the presidents ranking them on various individual leadership characteristics, moral authority, international relations, here is what those presidential historians say is the top 10. they include abraham lincoln,

george washington, teddy roosevelt, dwight eisenhower, harry truman, thomas jefferson at seventh, john f. kennedy, ronald reagan. rounding out the top 10, barack obama in the latest list, the one done in 2021. l.b.j. comes in at number 11 followed by james monroe and woodrow wilson. you can explore the results yourself at c-span.org or give us a call and let us know who is your favorite president and why. this is austin in new york, independent, good morning. caller: hi. i think my favorite president would have to be teddy roosevelt. i am a big fan of national parks. when it comes to his foreign policy,, the panama canal opened up a lot of opportunities for us. also, i dig the expansion of the

navy. i will leave it at that. host: awesome, cliff in oak oklahoma, who is your favorite president? caller: bill clinton. that was the most prosperous time. balanced the budget. i have friends that were personal friends with him and he was one of the most likable guys you'll ever meet. still, all-time favorite. i guess j.f.k. would be my second one. i was not quite old enough to understand politics, but i really liked him. host: what line of work for you in in the 1990's and why was it so profitable for you back then? caller: we were in the car business but also in the construction/plumbing business. it seemed like everything clicked for all the years he was in business, we were in business back then. everything seemed a lot easier for the middle class than it

does now. things were a lot cheaper. it seems like there were more opportunities. host: how do you feel about opportunities today? caller: it is tough right now. i am semi retired. this is probably the toughest i have seen the construction business. we have a lot of mexican guys working that are good tradesmen. you just cannot get people to show up and work sober now. that is the problem. you cannot really grow your business. everything has tripled or quadrupled in price. host: that is cliff in oklahoma. this is rita in ohio, republican. caller: good morning. host: who is your favorite president? caller: candidate -- kennedy. host: why. caller: because he said it is not what you can do -- it is not what your country can do for you

but what you can do for your country. host: how do you think americans view that today? caller: it is in sad shape! host: that is rita in ohio. the book is about kennedy and khrushchev. it is by a long-time professor, journalist, and author who was on c-span recently to talk about that book, if you want to hear more, you can do so at c-span.org. this is summer in tennessee, democrat, good morning. caller: good morning. my favorite president was bill clinton. he was the first one i voted for and i thought he was a great president. host: why did you think he was

such a great president? caller: the deficit down, i had money in my pocket. i did not live paycheck to paycheck. it was just a good time. the 1990's was a great time. i miss them. he was not perfect by no means but he was a good president. host: what line of work were you in, in the 1990's? caller: i was in high school so i was working at mcdonald's. [laughter] host: that is summer in tennessee. this is mac in st. thomas, virgin islands, independent, good morning. caller: i have a tie between jimmy carter and kennedy. both of them were [indiscernible] [no audio] as a black man, i am not voting for barack obama. he was not bad but he was not that great.

we thought he was good but right now he is [indiscernible] have a nice day. host: that is mac in the virgin islands. this is phyllis. who is your favorite president and why? caller: good morning, john. john, i'm going to be 80 this year. the president that stuck in my mind since i am a little kid, i guess through my family, was president eisenhower. everything was good. "father knows best" and all that. am i on? host: yes. in what ways was everything good? caller: it was happy days and all the 1950's. i think it was the 1950's, right? i just got it stuck in my head for my family that he was the best.

i always look at him as the father of the country. a good man. he served in the military. i think he started the highways across america, i was told. i am not sure. host: also known for warning about the military-industrial complex. any thoughts on that? that is something that gets a lot of attention. caller: when anybody asks me who is the best president, i will say eisenhower, most of my life. host: you like ike? caller: yeah, i like ike. [laughter] host: kathleen in kentucky, good morning. go ahead. caller: uh, go ahead. host: who is your favorite president? caller: i have two favorite presidents. my number one favorite was abraham lincoln.

kentucky-born. host: just listen through your phone to me. you do not have to watch or listen to the tv. you say he was kentucky-born but illinois is known as the land of lincoln. caller: yes. i like him because he freed the slaves. i adore him. i think he was the greatest. my second favorite was barack obama. host: why obama? caller: because he was -- i just think he was really a great president. host: that is kathleen in kentucky, the bluegrass state. to the keystone state, rose, good morning. who is your favorite president?

caller: my favorite president is donald j. trump. i will tell you why. because he is running this country like a business. just like he was so successful in his business ventures, he is making our country successful. he is actually -- he thinks outside the box. that is what i like most about him. he is so in tune. a few of the callers said j.f.k. and ask not what your country can do for your country but ask what you can do for your country. that is what he is about. he is not just about giving money away to the welfare state. he does not want u.s. money to go to foreign enterprises. that is why all of his accent right now is on getting rid of usaid because all of that money was going overseas. thank you very much for taking

my call. host: before you go, there is a member of congress that wants to put donald trump's face on mount rushmore. would you support that? caller: absolutely, 100%. if you look at mount rushmore, from an artistic viewpoint, you can actually see where president trump's face would fit. yes, i agree because he has done so much for this country. there are so many things he has done that people do not even realize they take for granted. he will pull this country back to where it should be an make america great again. host: donald trump was at the daytona 500 yesterday and took the presidential limousine out on the track at the daytona 500. there is some of the video of donald trump in the presidential limousine at the daytona 500. this is kevin in massachusetts,

independent, good morning. caller: hello, can you hear me? host: yes. who is your favorite president and why? caller: george washington because he refused an offer to be king, straight up. after that, he made his cabinets in congress or whatever, he did not get all the people he agreed with. he picked people that did not agree with him, he picked people that hated him. he picked all of these different people from different walks of life and put them in a room together and said, "figure it out." and they did for better or worse back then. honorable mention to lafayette who was washington's best buddy in a lot of ways. allegedly, supposedly, lafayette had a huge influence on george

washington and how he had been, what happened in america back then. i guess lafayette made washington have a [indiscernible] or something. thank you for taking my call. host: that is kevin in massachusetts. here is a presidential artifact in today's "washington post" about george washington. for sale, a rare wartime george washington letter, $150,000. 1777 during the revolutionary war, a large british rating party attacked a supply depot burning houses and barns. it seemed like a huge loss for the american forces under george washington who had been leading the battle for independence from britain for almost two years. what on may 7, ross hinton --

washington wrote a letter to a word subordinate saying the raid had not been a disaster. the british forces had been repeatedly attacked by the american militia as it retreated . despite the rate, washington realized the british force had been playing the countryside against them. "i am inclined to believe in the future they will pursue such measures was a great degree of caution." that letter for sale, the auction price $150,000. a focus on that letter from the collection of pennsylvania, 1777 letter, $150,000 price tag. this is patty in maryland, good morning. caller: good morning. this is so very exciting to listen to.

i will say i am not an academic related to presidential history, but at 76 years old, i might want to start studying it. it is amazing. the thing i wanted to say is this is based more on gut emotions and also looking at the world right now. the first president that came to my mind is jimmy carter. what i saw and what i heard recently is his intention to consider the whole world in his actions and with his own hands, he went out and was trying to be the change he wanted to see in the world. that habitat for humanity right there. i guess i'm feeling strongly at this minute about him because of what the world is dealing with at the moment.

the emphasis on global and doing what you can for the world, i thought that was very important, and timely right to be pondering . each of the presidents react to the world in their own ways. they all have strengths and weaknesses. i was particularly drawn to him and barack obama of course. in my mind, he was that unifier with the ability to speak in a way that helped us all rise up and think about people who were not being served and receiving attention. i think that is on a level where a lot of the academic rigor that goes into deciding those things would use. that is just for me. i am headed to a rally today in frederick, maryland, along with hopefully lots of cities right now trying to put a voice out there to ask, ask for individual

help to help presidents know what serves us all best. host: what is the rally? caller: it is just -- it came through me, for ucla. it is just kind of a go and say your piece, it is a protest. it is for people voicing what their big concerns are around things happening unlawfully, things around immigration. in our town, there is legislation that is not helpful for immigrants. people are going to be allowed to go into churches and do raids. it is people realizing their voice might matter and speaking up. it is probably going to be on lots of subjects. it is in frederick. they said tv cameras might be there. i do not know what else is going on around the world, but i am there. host: is it with the 50/50 one movement? caller: i think so.

host: a story on that today from npr. thank you for the phone call. these demonstrations are being organized by the 50501 movement in response to what organizers describe as antidemocratic and illegal actions of the trump administration and will be held on february 5, being held today. this is gary. good morning. caller: good morning to all my veteran friends paid i really like president kennedy and stuff. one of my mother's friends had a friend who was an fbi man. he took care of john-john and

carolyn. i really liked them. i think trump is doing a pretty good job. i worked at the mines for 30 years. i kind of vote for the guy i think is good. it does not matter which party. that is just the way i am. i appreciate president biden voted against nippon buying our steel company. trump is against it, too. i hope everything goes good now. i have been watching fox channel. there is a lot of different things they say, all of these congressmen are making so much money. pelosi made $300 million. she has been there a long time. that is a lot of money for anyone to make. people do not realize all these people are making so much money in congress. it is unfair to the people. thank you very much for taking my call. host: that is gary in minnesota.

you mentioned fox news. juan williams of fox news will be joining us to talk about his new book, pres. biden: --"new prize for these eyes." stick around for that as we take you to the land of lincoln, tom, democrat. caller: good morning. to me, without question, the greatest president in the history of the country has got to be franklin delano roosevelt. he is my idol and sort of amazing, 4-term president who got america through the great depression and through world war ii while he was in a wheelchair, mind you. he also created social security which we still use today and rely on, and other safety net programs for americans during

what was probably the toughest part of american history, you could argue, for modern history at least in the 20th century. in the modern sense, i would choose bill clinton. we had a great economy because he work in bipartisan fashion to bring down the national debt. he had a surplus by the end of his term economically. he also expanded our global reach economically, international trade after the berlin wall had come down, and we had a successful military operation in bosnia under clinton. if it were not for the monica lewinsky scandal, he would have been left off as one of our greatest presidents. thank you for your time.

host: you mentioned f.d.r. after f.d.r., they changed the rule of presidents being able to run for as many terms as they want. do you think that was a good idea? do you think two terms for a president is enough? do you think we should be able to elect presidents to a third term if we want to as a country? caller: i think two terms are enough now. i would argue this talk of donald trump going three terms is ridiculous, especially because he was impeached twice, or any president going to long sometimes, power goes to their heads and you cannot get rid of them. there are plenty of capable people to be president. i think the tour term --

two-term policy is correct. caller: my favorite president is andrew who is being maligned because it has become unfavorable to address the most grievous problem in our country which is the money. was the only president to completely pay off the national debt -- andrew jackson was the only president to completely pay off the debt. he realized along the banks to earn interest was hurting the entire population. in contrast to donald trump, i heard some callers claiming donald trump was their favorite president. andrew jackson served with distinction in several different conflicts. if i recall correctly, donald trump avoided his draft notice

to serve in the vietnam war. host: that is kevin in atlanta. this is jennifer in illinois, the independent line, good morning. caller: the greatest president of course is franklin delano roosevelt who was deeply -- is deeply despised by today's republicans and always has been ever since he served. the worst president is the man we have in there now and we have to get him out of there. he never should have been elected in the first place. how did this man get elected? the reason is racism. . white men especially wanted to make sure the blacks in this country got no further and they were moving and getting more and more benefits for themselves through joe biden, and they wanted to stop that as soon as possible. white men in this country gave us donald trump.

he is going to be the downfall of the united states. host: that is jennifer in illinois. this is the new york post editorial board, the headline from yesterday. "this presidents' day, remember what george president can teach us" and donald trump. presidents' day is officially still washington's birthday, as every american should happily honor our first chief executive. born in aristocrat, he carefully cultivated his virtues and strengths to become the most widely admired president, first in the 13 colonies and then the new nation. he also set the future course of u.s. government itself. he understood he was setting precedence that had to last even as many disagreed on what

precise form our government should take. washington emphasized america was a republic. he rebuked those who wanted a monarchy or exalted president. as we move through the aftermath of a bitterly fought election, they write it is important to remember george washington's example. the editorial board of the new york post. this is terrell in maryland, democrat, good morning. who is your favorite president and why? caller: i have three. i like jimmy carter because i bought my first home. i like bill clinton because i bought my second home. and i like barack obama because i bought my last home. and he was a good unifier. can i give you two of my worst? host: sure. caller: my worst, one of my worst times in my life was from 1984 to 1988 under ronald

reagan. i was a steelworker for bethlehem steel. i almost lost my first home under ronald reagan because he did not help the steelworkers. the other one is -- can i ask you a question about ronald reagan? did ronald reagan have dementia? i remember back watching the news, i remember hearing the newscaster, one of our national news people, say he was falling asleep at g7 meetings. that is a form of dementia. can you tell me whether he had dementia or not? host: may a presidential historian might be better. ronald reagan diagnosed with alzheimer's in 1994. there has been a ton of research about when the symptoms started. you mentioned ronald reagan. this is michael on cebook

saying reagan was his favorite president. made conservatism mainstream. he had previous expanse in the entertainment industry and politics. he had a great sense of humor and got on well with his political opponents. that is from facebook. looking at your comments on social media asking who your favorite president was and why. this is david in indiana, republican, good morning. caller: good morning. my favorite president was abraham lincoln. of all the presidents we had, lincoln was the only president of the disunited states. he served very well. host: david, abraham lincoln is the president known to have the most books written about him. he perhaps has the most books written about him besides jesus

christ. that is something from the publishing industry. have you read any abraham lincoln books? caller: it has been quite a few years when i was back in high school. host: what did you read about abraham lincoln? caller: i read about that he was very poor, had very humble beginnings. he was honest. he was known for his honesty, and it was very difficult for him to work his way out, but he did. he ran against a very popular politician and beat him. he was for the people. he really was for the people. paid for it with his life when he was assassinated.

he is the only president of the disunited states that we had. that makes a big difference to me. host: that is david in indiana. one of the many books about abraham lincoln, this one recently out from nigel hamilton. jefferson davis is that davis. "the war of the presidents" was featured on c-span's booktv. you can watch nigel hamilton talking about his book. debbie in ohio, democrat, good morning. caller: thank you. i am torn between two. i love teddy roosevelt and my favorite is andrew jackson. i like to look at someone's back story. he was born very poor, orphaned early. hour only president to have been a prisoner of war at the age of 18 and the american revolution. he refused to polish a british

soldier's boot and the soldier took a sword to his face and scarred him. he was in the war of 1812. he didn't shoot a man in a duel but it was to protect his wife's -- he did shoot a man in a duel, but it was to protect his wife's honor. and donald j. trump third. thank you. host: stick around. an houreft this morning. in that time, a conversation with fox news analyst juan williams. 's new book is out, "new prize for these eyes." we will be right back. ♪ >> commemorate presidents' day byhoing online at

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i think about all the opportunities that were not afforded her coming out of segregation. i bring that perspective to oregon saying my mom was a rural kid that did not have a lot of opportunities, but i'm going to make sure i bring that forward for all the kids in oregon. >> watch new members of congress all this week starting at 9:30 eastern on c-span. democracy, it is not just an idea, it is a process. a process shaped by leaders elected to the highest offices and entrusted to a select few with guarding its basic principles. it is where debates unfold, decisions are made, and the nation's course is charted. democracy in real-time. this is your government at work. this is c-span, giving you your democracy unfiltered. >> nonfiction book lovers,

c-span has a number of podcasts for you. listen to best-selling nonfiction authors and influential interviewers. and wide-ranging conversations with nonfiction authors and others making things happen. and weekly hour-long conversations that regularly feature fascinating authors of nonfiction books on a wide variety of topics. find all of our podcasts by downloading the free c-span now app, or wherever you get your podcasts. and on our website. >> "washington journal" continues. host: author and fox news political analyst juan williams joins us. his latest book was released last month, "new prize for these eyes: the rise of america's second civil rights movement." what do you mean by america's second civil rights movement? how is it different from the

first movement that shaped america in the 1960's and 1970's? guest: i wrote about that in a book published nearly 40 years ago called "eyes on the prize." i do not know it was the first civil rights movement. some say what happened after civil war reconstruction was the first movement. growing up in america, for me, it was the first civil rights movement. i think it is the major civil rights movement of the 20th century, beginning with brown be. -- brown v. board. the idea was they would enforce laws regardless of race. passage of the civil rights act and the voting rights act. everybody has the right to vote. i think we are now in the midst of a second movement. times have shifted.

people ask, if there is a second movement, where is dr. king? we do not have a dr. king in the second movement. they say, what is the agenda? there is an obvious agenda in terms of black lives matter and issues like how the policeman kn eeled on george floyd's neck for several minutes until he died. it is different from the legislative agenda. now, you have a movement, i like this analogy put in the first movement, you had the great march on washington. in one day, 250 thousand people. after george floyd, you had marches in the thousands all over america, all over the globe. there were millions of people, even just in the united states, more than 26 million people marched. you can see this is a bigger movement. you have people asking me about, where is dr. king in the second

movement, who is the leader? i say this is a 24/7 movement. you see it online in messages, images. you saw it in the image of the george floyd case. that would not have blown up the way it did unless you had social media amplifying it 24/7. host: when did the second movement began? -- begin? guest: i think it began in 2004 when barack obama spoke at the democratic national convention. it is a famous speech. i bet you can even remember that he said we are not a black america, white america, latino america, asian america, we are the united states of america. when he said that, everybody said, this is a different vision of america coming from a black leader. typically, if you think back to dr. king or forward to jesse jackson, al sharpton, people have been talking about the problems in black america or the debt owed to black america given slavery and rampant

discrimination. but here was a young black man standing up saying my story would not been possible in any other country but america. it was an optimistic forward-looking vision. we could have a new way of thinking about race in america. suddenly, this concept emerges of a post-racial america. now, you have discussions about how can america be different especially given the fact of huge demographic shifts. in the first movement, 90% of america was white. second movement, it is like 60%. blacks are still about 10%, 13% of the population. hispanics are the largest minority. asians the fastest growing minority. it is a different conversation. host: let me bring viewers back to that moment at the democratic national convention. barack obama gets up to speak. here is about two minutes. [video clip] >> even as we speak, there are

those preparing to divide us, spin masters, negative ad peddlers, who embrace the politics of anything goes. well, i say to them tonight there is not a liberal america and a conservative america. there is the united states of america! [cheers and applause] >> there is not a black america, white america, latino america, asian america. there is the united states of america! [cheers and applause] >> the pundits like to slice and dice our country into red states and blue states. red states for republicans, blue states for democrats. but i have news for them too. we worship an awesome god in the blue states and we do not like the federal government poking around our libraries in the red states. we coach little league in the blue states. and yes, we have gay friends in the red states.

there are patriots who oppose the war in iraq and who supported the war in iraq. we are one people, all of us pledging allegiance to the stars and stripes, all of us defending the united states of america! [cheers and applause] host: where were you that night? guest: in the boston fleet center for the speech. it was a really interesting moment. i was there is a political analyst for fox news. i am standing there with some of the politicians. i saw the image ahead of jackson. i think i was right there. people were talking. it was like a convention. it was a meet and greet, how are you? no one was paying attention to an unknown state senator from illinois. but as he spoke, something was changing in the air. suddenly, there was more quiet. as you saw, people started responding, and the standing

ovations, you could tell something was happening. it was a very special moment obviously in terms of the political career of a future president. but i think something else was happening in terms of the start of the second civil rights movement. host: you mentioned jesse jackson. what was the relationship between jesse jackson and barack obama, or more broadly the old guard of the first civil rights movement and what emerged as you describe as the second civil rights movement? guest: i think it is clear jackson did not see obama as a man to rise to become the next great black politician after him. jackson comes out of the civil rights movement of dr. king and has an image, a theory of civil rights that is quite different. i think he hoped his son, jesse jackson jr. would become the next great black political leader. instead, here comes this young man from the same state,

illinois, with a very different take on things, much more optimistic, forward-looking and i think maybe it hits a low point when obama is speaking about the issue of black men, families, responsibility, children. jackson says, why is he talking down to black people, why is he lecturing black america? that kind of thing. that relationship was never a very good one as you see subsequently when obama goes to the white house, he turns to al sharpton as his emissary to the black community. jackson is sort of left out of that. host: in the second civil rights movement, you talk about the dynamic between barack obama and what he represented and black lives matter and what that means

for the second civil rights movement. explain that dynamic. guest: black lives matter emerges after the murder of trayvon martin. martin is murdered in 2012, the verdict is in 2013i believe. when this young man coming home with skittles and iced tea, a volunteer security guard confronts him because he thinks the kid looks suspicious or something, they get into a confrontation, the kid is shot. but police do not arrest the killer right away. it is only under pressure. when he is tried, he is acquitted. three women out west say, that child's life mattered. i do not care if you think he was dressed in a hoodie or look suspicious, black lives matter. that takes off. you have other cases that occur after that. eric gardner, maybe most famously michael brown in

ferguson, missouri, which i reference at the start of the book about whether obama will go to ferguson. it is in that period that you see a civil structure taking place. again, no dr. king, no hierarchy. this black lives matter movement is kind of all over. it is all over the internet. can be -- it can be in one city under one group of people and in another city under another group of people. it is a different kind of movement. then you get the opposition that forms in part in opposition to obama. you get the tea party opposition not only to spending and bailouts for financial institutions, failing out wall street not main street. but with the affordable care act, i think it really takes shape. you see it very racial, very angry. people saying you want to take away my health insurance, you

want to raise my taxes, take care of these other people in america. host: you explained it in your book through the history of the first civil rights movement. page 108 of your bere is a split that had been evident in the first civil rightsement. the split was between the nonviolent, compromising strategies of dr. king versus the militant, " by any means necessary" commandof leaders like the black paner in t second movement, the split became a canyon between obama's approach and black lives matter's call for immediate action. guest: it is striking. this is one of the ongoing tensions and dramas of even this moment in the second civil rights movement, that you see

the people in the leadership of black lives matter and especially some of the activists in the local communities. can you imagine, they refused to meet with the person who has the grandest pulpit, the bully pulpit and american life, the president of the united states, and the president is a black man? you would think they would see an opportunity here to influence public policy and politics, but they are sort of dismissive of politics and politicians as those people are kind of cynical about the role of politics and american life and do not see it as honest and authentic. so, they move away from it. president obama is very damning ultimately about this. he says you have to understand the nature of politics is compromised, working with people, and staying in the fight. you cannot just turn your back on it. from that perspective, it leads to the defeat of hillary clinton in 2016 because you see black turnout go down.

there are questions about whether hillary clinton is dedicated to this movement and all of that. it is fascinating. that is why i was taken with it. it is a fascinating aspect of this story. you would not anticipate in thinking about a second civil rights movement that they would turn on black politicians. going back to the way you asked the question, how this is rooted in the first movement. the first movement, when you think about the voting rights act, the great hope is there will be more black politicians to better represent the interests of black americans. there will be more women politicians representing the interests of women, latinos, etc. now in the second movement, you get young people saying we have a black president, black mayors, black governors, i do not see that there is more employment, less violence, better schools. so, there is complaints about these black politicians coming

from some of the activists in the second movement. host: juan williams with us talking about his new book, "new prize for these eyes." he is with us until the end of our program today. want to invite viewers to join the conversation. you can do so on the phone lines as usual. republicans, 202-748-8001. democrats, 202-748-8000. independents, 202-748-8002. you wrote "eyes on the prize" after the first civil rights movement as you describe it. you are writing "new prize for these eyes" amid the second civil rights movement. how did that change how you as an analyst and historian wrote about these two movements? guest: i think the big difference here is that after i wrote "eyes on the prize" it was people in the movement who reacted so well.

it was a companion volume to the pbs series of the same name done by a brilliant film maker in boston. this time, i am on my own. i think one of the big differences is as you point out, barack obama is alive. when i wrote "eyes on the prize," dr. king, the leading figure, was passed. it is also the case right now that i think it is evident in the second civil rights movement that we are consistently working on an emerging third civil rights movement. i did not have that in mind when i wrote "eyes on the prize" about the first movement. i saw it as a contained, separate thing. the second movement is not like the first movement, as i'm been discussing with you. but it has roots in the first movement. but it is its own entity. as we see the arguments ongoing coming from the trump

administration, especially over diversity, equity, and inclusion, you see these arguments forcing conversations about identity politics, as president trump calls it. is race a legitimate consideration in hiring, in who gets into college, in cultural representation, who is on tv or in the movies? is it a legitimate issue to be considered in terms of police action or in the classroom? whose story is told as american history? i am shocked, i have got to tell you. even as i came in this morning, i heard on the radio in easton maryland, they had to cancel a frederick douglass day parade because the national guard has been told under trump's executive order they are not allowed to participate to

support a frederick douglass day holiday. for a while, the air force stopped making mention in videos for recruits about the tuskegee airmen, because we are not going to mention diversity and the fact that this group of black men even in a time of awful segregation moved airplanes to fight for the united states of america against oppressive forces in europe. this is unbelievable. this is an ongoing conversation that we are in the midst of right now as i am writing this book. we are in a conversation about the legitimate role of race in american society that is a society more diverse, more mixed than ever. host: why do you think donald trump won more black voters in 2024 than any republican in nearly 50 years? double his support among black men from 2020. in light of everything you just

described, explain those numbers from the 2024 election. guest: i think a lot of young activists, especially young black men are of the opinion the status quo is not great for me. in terms of employment opportunities, in terms of high rates of incarceration. i think it is still one in every three young black men is going to deal with the justice system in the country. they are saying look at the schools, look at the job picture. look at the opportunities for me going forward in this country. they are looking for change. they are looking for disruption. they have a lot of anger at government and all the rest. there is some populist connection with the kind of grievance president trump offers so aggressively to white america, especially white men. host: juan williams with us, taking your phone calls. this is richard in maryland, democrat, good morning. caller: good morning.

mr. williams, before i ask my question, i want to say you were cut from the same cloth as calling balls, strikes, and fouls, as you do every week on fox news. as it relates to barack obama, i think the greatest political advice he ever received was what congressman wrangle told him in 2006 or 2007 when he was preparing to run. he said barack obama is a smart guy, he has a great future in politics, but he was not ready for the job yet. he was not saying that in a demeaning way but he knew the experience it requires to be president of the united states and mr. obama did not have that. he told him be a senator,

learned sausage making. i think that is something you would have told him if you have the chance to do so as well. some things you do have to compromise on. but sometimes, you have to make a fist, a vein has to pop out of your neck fighting for what you believe in. as you mentioned the frederick douglass story, i saw that, it was most troubling. on npr this week, to add to that most troubling story, high school students, caucasian in high schools are holding auctions online trying to auction off their black schoolmates. i think that is equally as troubling. one even had the ugliness to say possibly we need another holocaust.

we are in troubling times, mr. williams. thank you for your untiring efforts in this discussion. host: richard, thank you for the call. let me let juan williams jump in. guest: i remember when ebony magazine in 2009 i believe ran a cover, and it said, "in our lifetime." it had a picture of a black president. it was unbelievable for you and me that this occurred. i think when you think about some of the advice and people cautioning obama about moving too quickly, i think a lot of those people were backing hillary clinton at the time thinking she is more likely to win and obama needed to bide his time and learn the sausage

making. but incredibly, there was a black president in our lifetime. obama won twice, he won reelection. what are the ripples of this? part of that story has to do with we are at a moment when so many young black people, young activists question what is going on with black politicians and why there have not been more results from the election of black people into high office in this country. host: in our lifetime, are we really witnessing the election of the first black president? that is the cover of ebony magazine craig it was march, 2008, edition, looking ahead to the election that year. in your book, "new prize for

these eyes," you are somewhat critical of black lives matter and how they have tried to further the second civil rights movement. what do you see as the failings of black lives matter? guest: we can start with something like defund the police. that is well known as a slogan, but it comes from a small slice of people. what it does is it feeds the opposition because most people say we live in a society where there is violence and crime and we need police. it made them seem like they were out of step. i think it distracted from their main message or attempt at a main message which is about delivering on equity, inclusion, justice for all, and raising a mayor -- awareness of racism in american society. i think there is another level. i find this part tragic. in their reluctance to engage in hierarchical leadership, they

also did not engage in accountable leadership. so come you get people saying things, doing things like defund the police all different places and claiming they are black lives matter. huge amounts of money flowed into black lives matter. the account to billy for that money often not there -- the accountability for that money often not there, no transparency. and then the money going into pockets of friends and relatives and being unaccounted for, hurting the credibility of black lives matter. host: that moment in 2004, you say he started the second civil rights movement. could he have been more of that voice, or did he try to do that? guest: he did not say he started it. i said he started it. he said he is not a post-racial

president. he is a president of the united states of america. i think it was a difficult dance for him. at the start of the book, i talk about ferguson, and the question of does he go to ferguson. ultimately, he does not. the question was there because there had never been a black president. there was the idea you would send a president into a race riot type of situation. with a black president, there was a notion he could offer a soothing message that would resolve the issue. but when it comes to obama, i think you have seen obama in various speeches, and this is part of the difference with jesse jackson and others, he has you've got to have compromise. you may be so resolute and so righteous in your indignation, but you have to deal with politics and people and even people who oppose you in devising some resolution to the problem. so obama was always reaching

out, trying to get those young people not only to work with him , at times to come to washington and come to the white house. it was extraordinary. but what is so interesting to me is you can see it persist among young people who say politics is just not for them or they do not trust it. you are on with juan williams. caller: he made reference to trayvon martin. it is my recollection that with that situation there was an eyewitness who said he was pounding george zimmerman. with regard to michael brown, it is my recollection there were multiple witnesses who indicated the hands up, don't shoot incident never happened, that

the police officer, darren wilson, that michael brown was struggling with darren wilson to get his gun away from him. do you feel both of these individuals in these incidents were blameless? guest: not faultless and not blameless. in the trayvon martin case, i think it is recorded clearly that trayvon martin was coming home with a drink and candies and was not involved in any criminal activity of any kind. nobody says that. when he was stopped by this voluntary security guard, confronted, then they got into a struggle. some fight breaks out, but trayvon martin is not the one with the gun and obviously he is the one who sadly is killed at 17 years of age.

the other one, there are lots of arguments about exactly what took place. but what is obvious in that case , the police officer was found not responsible, but what happens is the young man's body is left of the street for several hours. people are alarmed by this. i do not know what the young men had done or what he was up to, but why would you treat him in this fashion? i think you have to understand a larger picture here. some people especially on the right would say there is some way you could say these young men were responsible for their demise. i think there is a larger picture that says, these young men, certainly not in trayvon martin's case, may have been up to something or something was going on, but is at the end

result for -- that we would want for our own child in a situation like this? obviously not. host: a question from edward in new jersey. will we end the racial wealth gap in our lifetime? guest: this is a key point in terms of the second movement. there is this conversation about things like the phrase systemic racism or critical race theory and it is often said in a condemning way, but this is part of what we are dealing with in the second civil rights movement. much of this comes back to income inequality and people saying if you look -- i talked about poor quality schools in black and latino neighborhoods and we still have high levels of black and latinos in schools attended by blacks and latinos almost to the exclusion of

whites and then you come forward on that toward employment opportunities, high rates of incarceration, even on death row if you look over the last 40 years it is 30 plus percent of the people executed are black men when blacks were about 13% of the population. so you come to understand all of this makes for this moment in a second civil rights era even as people say are you sure this is the second movement? this is different. the demographics are different. the agenda is different. the leadership is different. host: this is mike, and defendant. good morning. -- independent. good morning. caller: i was raised catholic. i had quite a bit of catholic guilt. i do not see any need for white guilt. i do believe i have benefited

from white privilege. i went to public school up to the eighth grade and an all boys high school after that. pope francis -- i hope he gets better. but i must say i went to kent state in 1971 and i had a black roommate, very informative, to say the least. we were both worried in 1970 and he was still concerned about jackson state in mississippi, very tremendous times at that time to say the least. i remember him telling me how difficult it was for his parents to switch parties in 1964. they left kennedy but voted for nixon because he was true to eisenhower and they liked eisenhower, but in 1964, they

say goldwater scared them and said to leave the gop was not easy to do but they had to do that. i learned a lot, more than i could ever learn in a textbook. one last thing, if i may say, when it comes to president obama, somebody on fox news claimed his father was an anti-colonialist from kenya and his mother was a hippie from kansas. a hippie from kansas in 1962? hippies on the east and west coast were a dime a dozen, but hippies from kansas must be extremely precious. insulting both his mom at his father is beyond the pale. guest: people get personal in

these attacks, especially on someone with such a high profile as obama. it is petty. it does not speak to the historical significance of what obama did in terms of becoming the first black president, but even on a larger scale, helping america launch a new civil rights era in which we think about race differently -- i think a lot of the pettiness that you refer to is from people who really do not want to open their own eyes to what is taking place now in this new era where you have, as i said, about a 60% population that is white, not 90%, and which you have varying voices, people of different races. creating a kind of discussion

about what is appropriate in this multiracial, multiethnic america. what is legitimate in terms of consideration of race, opportunity, and the rest? it is very difficult. people sometimes have nostalgia for when it was mostly white america and did have to hear all these voices raising different issues. discussions of race can make us uncomfortable, but when you hear something like president trump the other day after a plane crash say diversity, equity, and inclusion is to blame without evidence, you think, something is going on here. why would the president of the united states do that? he is the guy who said that black lives matter is a hate symbol. he is the guy who pardons insurrectionists with ties to white supremacist groups. he is the guy who has been endorsed by the kkk and you

understand something important in terms of racial discussion and racial tension is taking place in america at this time. we are in the midst of the second civil rights movement. host: you began your book with this quote from barack obama before he was president at the 2007 some of voting rights commemoration. the previous generation pointed the way. they took us 90% of the way there. the question i have today is what is called of us in this joshua generation. what do we do to fulfill that legacy, to fulfill the obligations and debt we owe to those who allowed us to be here today? what is the moses and joshua generation? guest: we have both seen the martin luther king memorial. dr. king is a revered figure. that is the moses generation, if

you wanted to personify it. you had people like john lewis. you think of them as people who were parting the waters, if you will. to create a moment of opportunity for their children to come. we are now living through the early 21st century the joshua generation. the young people who are trying to establish a new way of life in terms of race in america and obama in that speech is asking, what is called on us to do? what is our responsibility to live up to the great sacrifices that were made by people in that first civil rights era? to me it is clear have to establish an agenda that allows for alliances to be built. when i say alliances, i am talking about between black

lives matter and make america great. they have to talk to each other. you have to allow -- black lives matter -- i do not know that you sob black lives matter create alliances with people invested in abortion rights and abortion opposition. there is an opportunity for people to work together on what is a powerful political issue. >> was the fear if you start to do that you -- and you make those alliances? guest: it is just not clear. you did not have a set group of people as the leadership. so you had different people with different agendas and different willingness to reach out. you had some people who were willing to reach out to the lgbtq community and others who were not. you had people willing to say we have to have discussions with

local politicians and others who were not. it is not clear. host: do you think this will be the lesson of the second civil rights movement? does a third civil rights movement more likely have the martin luther king figure, somebody that is leading that movement and talking about accountability and making alliances and less diffuse than what we have seen in the second? guest: i am not sure if it is going to be less diffuse or more concentrated and centralized in terms of that leadership, but i think to your point -- you think of someone like stacey abrams in georgia who was in the state legislature but then led even as a politician very civil rights activist type policy and terms of fighting voter suppression that led to georgia electing a jewish senator and a black senator. i do not think there's any

question that was powerful, progressive action by a politician or was it by an activist? she is a politician. do you get people like that now? do you get alliances across racial lines, even across political lines? that is what you need. in this moment, with so much tension around president trump and race, people tend to forget that black lives matter is still well thought of by a majority of americans. it used to be 60% of white people embraced black lives matter after the george floyd incident. now it is about 50% plus, but it is still a majority of americans think this is right, that diversity, equity, and inclusion -- think that we do have to make sure there is a level playing field for all of us regardless of race in america and we have

to understand the history of this country and the disadvantage given to people of color and women. people think of course but you would not know it in this moment because everything is so polarized and people are at each other's throats. in terms of a third movement, you will have to have leadership of some kind willing to formalize and to business with politicians and win elections. host: the book out last month, "new prize for these eyes." juan williams on his book tour. he will be out in tucson next month. c-span will cover the c-span festival of books. you have about 15 minutes left to call in and ask your questions. this is in north carolina. thanks for waiting. caller: i was thinking about the election we just had an people

saying a lot of blacks did not show up for kamala. i want to let you guys know i am a black african-american and i do love this country, but i was just thinking about all the white women who was about abortion and all the hispanics that was about trying to get ahead in america, just like the palestinians and the old white women who talk about the eggs are high. we talk a lot about civil rights, but it just is to the point of civil but not right. we got a president right now who will do anything he can to eliminate the black race. it is not about hispanics or white women. it is about us. now they are going through the archives and martin luther king. i want to remind you to comes to

these events, and i wanted to see if you can speak on this, things will come out that will try to get black america in the streets again. i hope my people do not fall for it. they want is in the streets for him to show his dominant power, but i want to see if that could be one of the scenarios. guest: to me -- i am a journalist. i -- john was asking me the difference about writing about a first civil rights movement and a civil rights movement -- the second civil rights movement. that i see taking place right now. you are talking about something that has not happened that could happen. i hope it does not happen, but i understand what you're talking about because i see -- it is unbelievable to me the kind of

antagonism being directed at people of color, progressives, democrats from this white house. i think they are trying to stir people up and i do not know what -- to what end. i do not know. it plays to grievance politics, i guess. it may be go after the democrats, but it is not bringing us together. it is not unifying politics and you said you think it is aimed at all -- at blacks. who can ignore the fact that the president of the united states recently promoted or hired a man who wrote that if you want things done right in america you have to get a white male to do it? the guy wrote this in october. he is working for trump now. there are talks about immigrants poisoning the blood of the nation these are things that are very divisive and to your mind it could be that he wants people

in the streets, angry and stirred up. we have seen a little bit of that with black lives matter, if you remember after the george floyd case, people protesting in lafayette and trump coming out of the white house with general milley and others and people being pushed aside and beaten. i hope not. maybe you are more prophetic than i am, but i hope not. host: when january 6 gets talked about, donald trump often points back to black lives are and cities burning. you talk a little about that in the book. what do you make of donald trump making the comparison or switching to that discussion when january 6 comes up? guest: it is self-serving. it is so telling that the way he

talked about black lives matter protests would make you think these were violent, disruptive protests. host: cities burning is the term. guest: yet when people who monitor protests globally looked at the black lives matter march -- marches and protests, 90% plus were peaceful marches. instead of focusing on the good, here was trump picking on instances where there were fights or a fire or somebody looted a store. and saying that is the true nature of black lives matter. it is just not true and i want to reiterate more than two thirds of white americans supported black lives matter after the george floyd murder. and most of the people who marched were white americans. he would not know that listening to the kind of rhetoric that you heard from president trump back in 2020.

so when he talks about the cities corrupt and filled with crime -- i think think about his claim of election fraud. where was it aimed? at the same cities. what is going on in the cities? higher populations of minorities. he is saying somehow they are cheating him. to me, it is a very not only divisive but demagoguery of a type that can lead to trouble. i think you heard some of that from a previous caller. host: chris rights, we wl celebrate the 60th anniversary of the summa, montgomery march. do you see any landmark legislation on the horizon needed for our country to continue to progress? guest: after the george floyd case, there was an effort in washington at police reform. you saw people like mitch

mcconnell and others say i'm open to that, to this idea, but it was stopped ultimately. the police unions and working with some people who are far-right would not agree to the terms necessary for a police reform bill. i think that would make a big difference in terms of legislation here in the second civil rights movement because the whole notion of police brutality and how police deal with young black people when you think about the argument over stop and frisk in new york and other places and what is legitimate and what is not legitimate, this is the conversation we need to have. we need to have an honest conversation about race and policing. here i am sitting, a black man living in washington, d.c.. i often say to people i know if

i'm shot and killed on the street it is more likely that the shooter is going to be a black teenager than a white cop, so i want to have a conversation about violence, crime, police. i go into the corner stores and drugstores and see the items locked up because of high levels of theft and shoplifting. i think this is ridiculous. it is crazy. this is a conversation we as americans can have and need to have, but i theme moment we are not having it because things are so polarized and people do not have that conversation, you could say the wrong thing, you do not want to take that risk. i think we need to take that risk and that is the optimistic vision. you know obama's famous campaign sign was hope. my hope is we are now maybe post trump, at the point where people

will say we need to have an honest conversation in this country because we are such a racial mix and for us to succeed and not the chinese and russians and others to divide us, we have to come to some understanding among ourselves. host: just a few minutes left with juan williams. . this is steven in arizona, republican. good morning. caller: good morning. i like to say that -- i would like to say that the minorities that i know that voted for republicans this time, and all respect to juan, they do not want to be told how to think. there's a lot of that going on on the other side. being told you have to vote democrat because of your minority status.

i think a lot of people are turned off by that today. i would like to know his comments on that. guest: sure. anybody trying to tell you what you should do, i think people get turned off. we were talking earlier -- john asked me why about a quarter of young black men, 50% of latino men, voted for trump given what we are discussing here this morning. the answer is they do not like the status quo. they do not want to be told how to think about their circumstances and opportunities and what they see as an uncertain future. they want politicians who are speaking to their interests and helping them and their families move forward, but when you think about those young people you have to understand even today, now that trump is in office, the numbers have shifted.

now it is the case overwhelmingly, 80% plus of blacks disapprove of what trump has been doing, the attacks on d.e.i. we have been discussing but latinos are almost in the same place. close to 80% opposition to trump at this moment, now that he is in office. whites still approve of trump and that is why his numbers -- i think he is over 50% approval generally at the moment, but you should understand where you saw some erosion in terms of black and latino and even women support for trump tray the election, now as trump is in office and the chaos ensues, you are seeing again that blacks and latinos in particular are coming together in opposition to trump. host: final paragraph of your latest book, "new prize for these eyes."

the second civil rights movement is the door to a burgeoning third civil rights movement. what are the goals and your mind? what will be the goals of a third civil rights movement? guest: when i talk to you about honest conversation, we need to come as americans trying to achieve justice for all and a sense of common destiny and common goal, i think that is the goal of the third civil rights movement. it is saying i see u.s. human and i -- i see you as human. we both live here in this town or whatever. but we want some progress. we do not want to be just locked in to the anger and division. we want to have some sense of progress and movement. movement in terms of race relations in a positive way.

host: how does the second civil rights movement end? when does it end? how does the third movement began? guest: let's stick with the second movement. i would say at this moment the first movement ended. what i saw was that a second movement began with obama opening the store, the idea of post-racial, that we can get away from arguments and the kind of principles that defined the first civil rights movement, which was segregation, slavery, legal discrimination, and the like. you start a second civil rights movement and i think a third civil rights movement comes when people again think we need to move beyond this kind of acidic division that is taking us nowhere, but how do we do it? i do not know if we rise up and

say as a group i understand there is no right and wrong. instead there is in america in which we see each other as our best opportunity for a good future for our children. host: the book "new prize for these eyes." you know the author, juan williams. that is going to do it for us this morning on the "washington journal." in the meantime, happy presidents' day. have a great monday. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2025] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] ♪

>> c-span's "washington journal," a live forum invite you to discuss the latest issues and government and policy. coming up tuesday money, the president of the alliance for american manufacturing explains trump administration trade and tariff policies and how they might impact the manufacturing sector. then natasha hall, mideast program senior fellow at the center for strategic and international studies. she talked about the latest in the fragile cease-fire between israel and hamas and the trump administration gaza plans. and the spectrum is political reporter discusses the white house news of the day. "washington journal." joining the conversation live 7:00 eastern tuesday morning on c-span, c-span now, our free mobile video app, or online at c-an.org. >> secretary of state rubio and u.s. special envoy to the midd

east steven witkoff are leading a delegation in udi arabia for talks on the russia-ukraine war and aancing the solution to e situation in gaza. "the washington post" is repoing that foreign minister sergey lavrov will lead the russian negotiator he has been quoted as saying that the time has come to normalize relations between the united states and russia. this week's talks our plude to a planned meeting between present trump and vladimir tin, according to the common, and follows a 90-minute call between the two leaders last week. ukrainian leaders, not present at the meetings in riyadh, are expected to be allowed to participatg in the final negotiations. the u.s. team was greeted by saudi arabian leader on, bin salman --mohammed bin salman. here's a sure look at their meeting.

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television companies and more, including charter communications. >> charter is proud to be recognize as one of the best internet providers, and we are just getting started, building 100,000 miles of new infrastructure to reach those who need it most. >> charter communications supports c-span as a public service, along with these other television providers, giving you a front row see to democracy. --front-row seat to democracy. >> veterans, their spouses, and advocates with the groups disabled american veterans and the wounded warrior project testified on the v.a.'s community care program before the senate veterans affairs committee. they discussed veteran suicide, mental health care, and access to timely medical care.