♪

host: morning, it's thursday, february 20, 2025. the senate is in at 10:00 a.m. with key confirmation votes including cash patel for fbi director. foreign policy, the growing rift between president trump and president zelenskyy with trump calling zelenskyy a "dictator" and zelenskyy accusing trump of living in a russian propaganda bubble. western allies concerned about the future of eastern europe. we are getting your reaction the phone lines are split by political party. republicans, (202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-8000. independents, (202) 748-8002. you can send us a text, (202) 748-8003. if you do, include your name and where you're from you can catch up with us on x @cspanwj or on

facebook.com/c-span. good thursday morning. you can call in now. last week, president trump had a phone call with vladimir putin of russia. this week, top u.s. and russian officials met to discuss the future of ukraine. after ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy expressed frustration about being excluded from those talks, president trump amped up his criticism of zelenskyy. this is the latest from last night. [video clip] pres. trump: think of it. a modestly successful comedian, president zelenskyy, talk to the united states of america into spending $350 billion to go into a war that basically couldn't be won. they never had to start, and never would have started if i was president, never a chance, it didn't start for four years, never would have started, but a war without the u.s. and trump will never be able to settle, they will never settle that were without our involvement. that's why they did such a great

job this weekend. that's why saudi arabia did such a great job this weekend in hosting. the united states has spent 200 billion dollars more than europe, and europe's money is guaranteed. they get their money back. it is a form of a loan. nobody knows that. i know that. why isn't someone saying we do at the same way? we spent much more money. we have to equalize. while the united states gets nothing back, so they get their money back, it's alone. we just give our money. we had a deal based on rare earth and things, but they broke that deal, they broke it two days ago. we had a deal. we are spending $350 billion and euros gets their money back in the form of a loan, and we don't. we are just giving the money hand over fist. that is the biden administration for you. but they are no longer dealing with the same united states as they were dealing a few month ago. why didn't crooked joe biden

demand equalization in that this war is far more important to europe than it is to us and that there is a very big, beautiful ocean of separation. we are helping europe, we are trying to help europe, and on top of this and linsky admits that half of the money that we sent them is missing. they don't know where the money is. he said, we don't know where half of it is. he refuses to have elections. the real ukrainian polls, how can you be high when every city is being demolished. someone said, no, his polls are good. give me a break. every city is being demolished. they look like a demolition site. every one of them. the only thing he was really good at was playing joe biden like a fiddle. he played him like a fiddle. that is an expression we use, yes, sir, to say that he's pretty easy, pretty easy. a dictator without elections, zelenskyy better move fast or he's not going to have a country left.

host: president trump from late yesterday, taking your phone calls this morning as we talk about the u.s.-ukrainian relationship. what has happened in the last 48 hours. here are quotes from yesterday from ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy speaking to ukrainian tv saying that president trump unfortunately lives in this disinformation space, saying, at a news conference yesterday, that he wished donald trump's team had more truth. twting this out yesterday afternoosaying, he spoke with the u.s. senator republica lindsey graham. we greatly apprecie the bicameral and bipartisan support of u.s. congress to th ukrainian people in our fight against russian aggression. as always, hsaid, senator graham is constructive and doing a lot to help bring peace closer . it's all important that security guarantees remain on the table, he said, and they work for ukraine for real and lasting peace. saying thank you for your

support. baltimore's zelenskyy yesterday on his x page. here are headlines in this morning's major papers about this relationship. allies fear u.s. may realign its russia policy as donald trump appears to move closer to putin. this is the front page in the new york times. the headline, trump calls zelenskyy a dictator as feud grows. the news analysis piece from peter baker, a hero to biden is a villain to his successor. washington times, donald trump topples the u.s. stance on ukraine. some of the headlines, we will go through some of the reaction in this first hour of the "washington journal."the numbers for democrats, republicans, and independents as usual. this is doug in ohio on the line for democrats. good morning. caller: hello. first of all, trump is the one who wants to be a dictator, not

zelenskyy. the republican party ought to be ashamed of themselves for keeping supporting this man because he is the want to be dictator. i support ukraine all the way, because they are trying to stop the evil threat of the communists all over the world. you give them an inch over there, and then china, north korea, south korea, and the world will be a bigger mess. trump is making a big enough mess at home and now he is trying to make a mess overseas. we are not going to turn gaza into a gosh-darn resort for anybody. it has been the longest month of my life watching this guy cut up my beautiful democracy the way that he has. i just hate the man, anything he does anymore. he's destructive. he's the most destructive thing this country has had since king george iii. you must be a king. he can be louis the 16th of

france. it can be 1789 if he wants it to. host: elizabeth city, north carolina, republican, good morning. caller: hello, thank you for taking my call. first of all, i strongly disagree with the previous caller. i would like to correct him. king george iii was not american. i disagree a lot with what trump is saying. i totally support ukraine's freedom. they need to be free, and i don't trust russia. not at all. russia started it. they gathered troops on the border and they invaded ukraine. i believe ukraine to be free and must be free. so, i would let mr. trump have the president of ukraine involved in the talks. host: what you think about the

reaction that we have seen in the day or so since this feud, this rift has started. here's a headline from the washington post. gop senators split on trump's attacks on zelenskyy and reversals on ukraine. caller: the gop in general is supportive of ukraine. there is no question about that. they are walking a tight rope with trump, because they realize that he is the president. trump has done a lot of good, there is no question about it. i support him in the good, but ukraine must be free. there is no question about the russian aggression. there is no question in my mind he was the real bad guy here. putin, i don't trust him at all.

the republicans, the gop, they must really come together and really think and do what is best how to best help ukraine. that's my take on it. host: bodmer zelenskyy -- volodymyr zelenskyy talking about his conversation with lindsey graham. this was his tweet yesterday come his x post. and it comes to blame for the russian invasion of ukraine i blame putin above all others. if you're looking for american politicians to blame, by then and obama are at the top of my list. they were pathetically weak handling putin and failed to protect ukraine from invasion. to the course of democrats who now love ukraine after they invaded, where were you before putin's invasion? why didn't you up your game as i encouraged you to. saying donald trump is ukraine's best hope to end this war

honorably and justly. i believe you will be successful and will achieve this goal in the trump way. his comments on x. more comments from other members of congress. we continue to hear from you. mountain home, arkansas, republican, joel. caller: thank you for taking my call. i support president trump and i voted for him. i would like to say a few things now. we have given this country $200 billion. we have a state here, north carolina, we have not taken care of those people. they are out in the cold today. they are -- i just can't believe what we are doing. the reason i'm saying this, we pulled out of afghanistan and we left all that equipment over there. then iran and those people got that equipment, selling and on

the black market. this president didn't have to take all this on. he's a billionaire. $36 trillion in the hole now. if we can't meet this payment each year, and the payment is as much as our budget each year now. what does the people not understand? host: you mentioned afghanistan. are you concerned that ukraine could become donald trump's afghanistan? what afghanistan was for joe biden? a moment when you can look back and the public opinion polling flipped on joe biden with the u.s. pullout? do you think that walking away from support or funding for ukraine, if that is what happens, do you think that could be something akin to afghanistan? caller: i'm going to tell you what started this work. ukraine kept asking to be part

of nato. now, ukraine was part of russia many years ago. i don't remember when, but they left russia somehow. i don't understand that part. host: the end of the soviet union. caller: ok. now, we didn't like the russians in cuba and we almost went to war over that. i'm 83 and i will be 84 soon. i served 24 years in the military. we see what's going on. i'm just saying, if we had texas saying they wanted to go to another country we wouldn't like that either. host: joel in arkansas. elizabeth, nashville, tennessee, democrat. caller: i just wanted to say that all of the republicans who are going to be calling in who still believe joe biden was too cognitively impaired to be president, i don't know why they

aren't saying anything about donald trump. it's clear something wrong is going on with him. there is no sort of proof from him that volodymyr zelenskyy is a dictator. volodymyr zelenskyy is a hero who cares about his people and is trying to save them for more. why doesn't he share that same rhetoric about vitamin putin? why doesn't he share the same rhetoric around xi jinping or kim jong-un, who he gets along with very well, i might add. all of the republicans who think that joe biden was too cognitively impaired to be president, i think trump and his team should be taken out of office. host: plenty of criticism about this decision in the major national print papers this morning on the op-ed pages, including from the editorial board of the wall street journal. donald trump tilts towards a ukraine sellout, putting pressure on for a deal than he

does on the kremlin. the u.s. government's biggest cut is in global credibility right now. writing about ukraine. cal thomas writing in the mostly conservative pages of the washington times op-ed pages, no substitute for victory. putin must be defeated, is what cal thomas writes. this is from nicholas kristof in the new york times, there op-ed pages, humiliating month to be an american. it goes on. if you're looking for support for donald trump criticism of ukraine, conservative media online has a few articles on it, including alex marlowe writing for breitbart.com. yes, zelenskyy is a dictator is the headline of his peace. red states is another of those websites that you can go to. the headline on the red state's website talks about donald trump slamming dictator zelenskyy, and

jd vance tags and and hammers volodymyr zelenskyy for bad mouthing the president. getting your reaction, plenty to choose from. this is doug in newport news, virginia. republican, good morning. caller: i don't understand why everyone is upset. yes, i support ukraine. i believe trump still supports ukraine. but when trump asked for ukraine to give us rights to start paying some of the money back to help them, everyone is upset. why are we the world's su cker? i did 20 years in the military, retired. i've been over there. we should have been getting paid from the gulf war. if you give trump time and let him run his course, he knows what he's doing. yeah, he likes to piss people off, but that is part of his strategy. host: you say you think donald

trump still supports ukraine? what makes you believe that? caller: because we haven't stopped giving them any money, and they can't account for the money that we gave them. how do you -- it is just like our country. we are going broke taking care of the world. why do we keep being involved in all this stuff? when i do agree with him, it is europe's problem. it is not our problem until it becomes our problem. we've stepped up more than europe. europe is the one sitting there with russia. i don't trust russia for nothing. i don't trust putin. most of the time you have to keep your enemies closer than your friends. host: at what point, doug, do you think this would become our problem? caller: when it -- when russia wants to take all of it. then you will have a problem. host: all of ukraine? caller: yeah.

if you remember, everyone sat back when hitler went into poland and said, it is just poland, let them have it. until he ended up taking almost all of europe. then we had to get involved. it's time we stopped being the police of the world. host: doug in virginia, bob in new hampshire, good morning. caller: hi. thanks. white make russia great again? this past caller, it's amazing. trump, putin is maneuvering to how trump did in afghanistan when he made the piece with the taliban. the military, the government folded like thin air. that is what left of the equipment there, and it will be the same thing in ukraine as we pull out. ukraine can't make it.

they will end up losing. you will have a mess like the gentleman said. we have to do it now, or else we will send troops later. why make russia great again with the equipment that we leave there like we did in afghanistan? one more thing, putin is maneuvering us. he is -- make no mistake. he is going to take ukraine. he's afraid of a democratic and free ukraine than a nato ukraine. russian citizens see that on their doorstep, it is the end for putin and he knows it. it's not nato, it's a free and democratic ukraine. this martial law in ukraine, how can you get a vote? you can't get an honest vote.

trump himself should know about honest votes. host: bob focusing at the end about the criticism on delayed elections are the editorial board of the washington journal bringing up that point when donald trump makes the criticism of volodymyr zelenskyy as a "dictator." they note that ukraine has delayed elections while it is operating under martial law and fighting a war for survival. it's constitution allows it to do this. britain under nazi siege did not hold an election in world war ii asking the question, was churchill a dictator? ? -- the opposite of leverage in any negotiation. mr. trump wants to be able to claim that he brought peace as promised as a candidate. a cautionary tale is joe biden. he tried to wash his hands of

afghanistan, but instead his retreat set in motion a chain of global crises that defined his presidency. he tried to sell his withdrawal as a triumph of military logistics but the public knew better. americans macy a similar reaction if they see russia emerged triumphant and realize that this was not the piece that they had in mind. this is charleston, west virginia. alberta, democrat, good morning. caller: thank you, doug. i appreciate the time and energy. he has been spewing the answer on his thing last night, what he thinks of the united states. the three things was love, respect, and strength. in my observation, love him loves his special ones. respect, there is none except for the elite. strength, by bullying everyone who is not in his boat. also, we can move this us. there is a loophole here.

trump's mother was born in the united kingdom. vance's wife -- host: bring me to ukraine. caller: i am totally with ukraine. as far as him calling him a dictator, i think he needs to look in the mirror, totally. he is straight up running the mob. he has gone rogue and the republicans are not stopping him. i thought that there were things in place for this. i've called every one of my senators and representatives daily. let me tell you, i'm getting nowhere. it's really in for your -- it's really infuriating me. a lot of people have anxiety because all of us are immigrants. host: that is alberta in west virginia on the republican line mark in hampstead, maryland. caller: good morning, john, how

are you doing? host: doing well. caller: it's funny that zelinski used the phrase, saying something about trump being in a disinformation bubble. it's funny that he uses the word disinformation, because that word was pushed by the cia a few years back when we had covid. you notice all of the media outlets started using the word misinformation and disinformation overnight at the behest of the central intelligence agency. now, with zelenskyy using the phrase, it's funny, because it was the cia that put it into place. host: what if he was using the phrase "fake news?" what if he used the phrase "fake news?" caller: what do you mean? host: what if that is the phrase that he chose instead of disinformation? caller: that would just be

putting it into layman's terms. saying using disinformation and misinformation, those words came from the same people who started using the words conspiracy theorist. the thing about zelenskyy, a month before zelenskyy came into power in ukraine, there is a tape of victoria nuland, you can look it up on youtube, she was speaking at a conference, she was naming the people who she wanted to be in zelenskyy's cabinet. victoria nuland is the same deep state operative that got us involved in iraq, and afghanistan. host: did you ever support spending u.s. dollars to go to ukraine to help fight this war? caller: i don't, and i will tell you why. if i can put it this way, there is a move. we had 13 countries involved in nato to begin with.

vladimir putin has been telling us for 25 years that ukraine was the line for nato. biden sends kamala harris there three days before putin invaded and says from the television cameras, we would like to invite ukraine to join nato, knowing that that was the redline. i'm not saying putin is a good guy. i don't know why democrats -- democrats seem to hate russia now. they didn't hate it so much when it was the soviet union. that's kind of curious, but let's put that aside for a second. two things can be true at once. yes, putin is a bad guy, but that doesn't mean zelenskyy is not a bad guy. he got rid of all television over there except for state-run television and radio. he shut down orthodox christian churches and canceled elections. that is the definition of the dictator. host: mark in maryland.

ian in kearney's bill, west virginia. -- kerneysville, west virginia. caller: i worked in the intelligence community for 10 years now. i will say plainly that it's well-known that donald trump is compromised. i also see that the americans don't quite understand how america maintains global supremacy. what we are doing in ukraine is we are literally draining their resources of a world power without using american lives. pulling back at this point is profoundly dumb. we have russia on the ropes. they have lost over 600,000 troops. this is a great thing for america. listening to some of these previous callers, it is obvious why we are in the situation we are in. host: when you say that you worked in the intelligence

community for 10 years, can you be more specific? caller: i was in the military, i got out and i worked in contracting for several different agencies. i won't go into the agencies or projects that have worked for, but i will say -- host: what makes you say that russia is on the ropes? we are entering the fourth year of this. the invasion in february of 2022. caller: yes. host: what makes you say russia is on the ropes? caller: they are losing troops at an insane rate. it is pretty bad for us. at one point they were losing 1000 troops per day. this is unclassified information p you can look it up. so the nato alliance between the u.s. and the european nato countries has single-handedly taken a small country like ukraine and decimated what was

once considered one of the premier military forces in the world. within four years with no american lives spent. it is a great thing for america. pulling back is -- it's really hard, honestly, to see what's going on. to see a man like donald trump, who is clearly compromised and morally corrupt, and to listen to americans speak about this man as if he is some kind of savior for america. it's very worrisome for the future. host: ian and west virginia. lester in tuscaloosa, alabama, democrat, good morning. caller: good morning, john. how are you? host: doing well, sir. caller: listening to the last caller, on the line i heard four republicans call in. these republicans act like they

run the united states. they don't have a leg to stand on. donald trump is compromised. donald trump started the war in ukraine when he first left office to make biden look bad. host: how would he have started the war, lester? caller: as simple as this. he didn't want biden -- he knew when biden got into office america was great. we didn't have any problems. donald trump lost over close to 3 million people because he come in with nonsense stuff. look at the cabinet he got right now. host: how could he have possibly started the war? caller: he is a putin sympathizer. the united states did not tolerate with russia. russia, in our history, has always been a dictator country. look at hitler, how he came into

power. is the same way the donald trump is trying to run the united states. host: this is nancy anne in louisiana, republican, good morning. caller: i'm calling in to let your viewers know that i support president trump's statement on ukraine. to all of you viewers and your callers, president trump doesn't have a mean bone in his body. he is for the united states. all of these callers should think about these hostages, hostages around the world that need to be rescued. this is what i have to say. this is how i feel this morning holding on for 20 minutes. i support president trump's statement on ukraine. thank you. host: nancy anne in louisiana.

7:30 on the east coast and we are taking your calls on the rift that we've seen in just the past 48 hours between donald trump and ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy, asking you what it could mean on the international stage and what you think it means here at home. republicans, democrats, independents, phone lines as usual. we have been taking you through some of the reaction on capitol hill. here are a few more comments from x from members of congress. josh hawley, the republican from missouri, putting the ukrainian situation together with the budget framework that the senate is working on right now, and the house as well, saying i'm not votin for a budget framework that facilitates more taxpayer money to ukrne. period. youngest woman anna paulina luna sang the deep state in washington once the russia-ukraine war to persist forever at the expense of american taxpayers.

we can't let this money laundering scheme continue. marjorie taylor greene saying the ukraine war has always been a deep stateunded and controlled money laundering operation and proxy war against russia. zelenskyy is an actor and green jumpsuit thaextorts money from everyone, she says. bernie sanders say trump and his american oligarchs are now openly aligning themselves with putin and his russian oligarchs. this putin-trump alliance means abandoni our allies and supporting authoritarianism and undermining our democratic traditions. mark warner, democrat from virginia, president trump should really have a conversation with his own intelligence officials before he again blames ukraine for being invaded by russia. sheldon whitehouse saying there was always trump/russia and there still is trump/russia. the early actions of the trump administration signaled a continuing force of trump/russia. feel free to add to the list.

some of the reaction on x. we are mostly interested in your reaction this morning. phone lines for democrats, republicans, and independents. jc is an independent from mobile, alabama. caller: good morning. listening to trump's rhetoric, it is surreal what is happening. it is actually difficult to believe that this is really happening, but nonetheless it is. if someone could be orchestrating it, conveying it so absolutely backwards. we are seeing now i kind of replay of we can say the ghost of neville chamberlain. it was fitting that the recent meeting was in munich, the famous, infamous site where chamberlain came back and said, yes, unfortunately, it is the start of the comparison to hitler. it was a historical fact that neville chamberlain said the adolph hitler was a man that we could trust and believe in.

three times he signed pacts that he brought back to england saying adolf hitler was summoned to be trusted. several years ago vladimir putin did a grand, sweeping speech in which he called up the greatness of russia from antiquity, the russian empire, that he wants -- he was open about it, i give him that. he aims to restore, re-conquest the old czarist russian empire and he is doing an excellent job. we've all heard of the nobel peace prize. if this thing somehow ends up being a nobel peace prize awarded to trump or perhaps trump and putin, what it should be is the nobel appeasement prize, not the nobel peace prize. he is appeasing vladimir putin. noticeably absent were the war crimes, the vast numbers of hideous, vile war crimes that

have been documented and verified. also, the thousands and thousands of ukrainian children who have been absconded, kidnapped, and brought into russia forcibly. these were all noticeably left out. these were -- to suggest that ukraine caused it is like the old male adage that a woman caused herself to be raped. ukraine was and is a sovereign nation that has a right to join nato. since when does vladimir putin get to dictate who does and doesn't enter nato with sovereign nations? that is not a vassal of pew 10. ukraine is a sovereign nation. host: you bring up 1938, the nobel peace prize. in the washington times, bringing up both of those things as well. he writes that wall street journal columnist wilma brennan was right when he asked the

question, will ukraine be trump's vietnam? consider the 1970 three peace accords. henry kissinger won a nobel peace prize, but saigon fell. he writes that if the trump administration is not cautioned by what happened in 1938 when an evil monster was allowed to have his way with one state before launching the holocaust, perhaps it needs another reminder about what happened in 1973. accommodating evil never ends well. columnist cal thomas. good morning. caller: first of all, get afghanistan out of the way. you can thank mr. trump for that. he is the one with the agreement, so tell him to get off that thing and stop repeating, repeating, repeating. that is all the man never does. number two it, they better up his drugs because you can see him winding down every day. number three, as far as the who's who, he is the useful idiot of putin.

he is scared to death of him. he is nothing but a blow bag idiot. host: mcgill, republican, good morning. caller: thanks for having me. i voted for trump. because i wanted to end the war. i think that the bloodshed there is insane. you had a caller who said that he worked for intelligence earlier. he said that the whole reason we are doing this is so that we can send ukrainian young men to go fight and die on russia's -- i guess you could say to fight and die against russia to give them some kind of a defeat, to weaken them. think about that. if our intelligence community thinks like that, are you going to send people to their death because you want to feel, because you want a victory against someone without them being american lives? they are still lives.

they would usually do something, have a family and stuff, but instead they die for nothing. there is no land in it. there is nothing for them to die for, the russians or ukrainians. those people were traditionally russian. they speak russian. they are the same people. everybody is angry because they want to stop the war. when was the last time that someone was angry that they wanted to stop a war? what is going on with this place, you know? i'm sorry to say that it's just not the america that i grew up in. host: that is miguel. caller: thank you for taking my call. i am stunned by trump anew every day. what he is saying about ukraine is obvious that this man, in my opinion, is in the throes of dementia. zelenskyy did not start the war,

putin did. putin walked into ukraine and wanted to take -- so much. i'm afraid that trump in his dementia, in my opinion, will sellout ukraine to russia. that goes against all american values. i don't understand the republican party in that they are supporting a man who is clearly mentally ill. we are at a constitutional crisis with doge. elon musk be putting his employees into our federal government to tear it apart to the point where trump will declare martial law because the protests will have become desperate. he doesn't want to just take

down the administrative state. he wants to destroy the government. host: laura in texas this morning. you talk about the claim that ukraine started the war. fact checks and plenty of papers to that statement by donald trump, and other statements as well, including the dictator statement and the polling approval rating statement. here's the bbc on polling approval. donald trump claims that zelenskyy's approval rating has fallen to 4%. it is unclear what source the president was citing as he didn't provide evidence. the official polling is limited and extremely difficult to carry out accurate surveys during wartime, however, some pulling has been possible. a survey conducted this month found 57% of ukrainians said that they trusted the president, according to a kyiv international institute of sociology poll. that is based in ukraine.

that's down from 77% at the end of 2023 and 90% in may of 2022. zelenskyy trailing his nearest rival in a future potential election that could happen, indicating that the two could face-off in a runoff. that is the bbc reporting one of their fact-checks. one of the many in today's papers. david in las vegas, democrat, good morning. caller: this is the first time i'm calling. i'm really upset because putin -- it has been 25 years since he has been a dictator. trump just wants to be his buddy but he is playing trump. the republicans say i don't know why he is on zelenskyy. zelenskyy has more courage than trump ever had in his life. trump did not go to vietnam. he deferred four times.

he wanted to be a tough guy and now he wants to be a peacekeeper and he is messing with an evil person. ukraine, they were part of the ussr. they just want to be free. now he is on zelenskyy. next week putin is going to hate zelenskyy. caller: good morning. i'm hearing everyone saying everything that is antitrust. it's pathetic. i heard a young woman on your show talking to how trump is suffering from dementia. not a single word to nobody about how biden suffered from dementia. they say that trump is in the back pocket of putin. the cash cow for putin, the cash cow for russia is the north korean pipeline that runs from russia to europe. who canceled that? donald trump. who reinstated putin to get

money to fund his war? joe biden. i'm tired of looking at my grandkids, looking at my grandkids and leaving them $47 trillion in debt. the united states cannot be the welfare for the entire world. where is western europe? four years under the biden administration, western europe never came up with no peace plan to solve the problem. 80 years, and is pathetic. one less thing since everyone is talking about everything else. what elon musk is covering is mind-boggling. i have health insurance and i cannot get cataracts removed because it would cost me $600 per eye for a doctor's fee, but they are doing cataract surgery in uganda at the taxpayer expense. this is my money -- host: mike in desoto.

caller: good morning, sir. host: what are your thoughts on what is going on on the international front.the united states, ukraine, russia. caller: i think it's crazy how the opinions between both sides differ so much. it's like both sides are crazy. as far as ukraine, no country that can't support themselves without american tax dollars should exist. if you can't support yourself without other countries funding you, you have no right to be a country. that even goes for israel. host: that is mike. democrat, marietta, georgia, good morning. caller: yes. i keep hearing these people call in, republicans. speak to them, speak to america. first off, you correct the democrats a lot of the times while they are speaking.

why don't you do the same for the republicans? republicans have said repeatedly that zelenskyy had elections. why do they have to have elections? it's in their constitution that they can't have elections when they are at war. they are banning churches, calling in drone strikes on ukrainian troops. they changed or shut down the church, which is completely rational. republicans, america, nato is being torn apart. we have lived through the success of nato while allowing us to dictate the world through our dollar. we have been running stuff through our alliances, and we are completely isolated now. canada hates us, mexico hates us, europe hates us. the only thing he says anything negative about is our allies and

only nice stuff to our enemies. we are so isolated. if china or russia invaded us, i don't think anyone is coming to our defense. no one can trust us. the poor gentleman talking about cataracts, that has nothing to do with ukraine, a country trying to defend themselves. it is taking the place of our boys or women going there to fight. russia has to be put down. the thing with his cataracts, it is billionaires who are keeping the money for you to have that surgery. it has nothing to do with ukraine. you have all of that anger, direct it to the greedy corporations and billionaires. host: national security writer david ignatius, his column in the washington post today, he writes that, tuesday was a dark day for the united states. president donald trump and his administration praised russia as a peace partner without demanding that it pay any price for its illegal invasion of

ukraine. and then come in a statement that turned up around the upside down, the president blamed ukraine for causing the war. trump is an outrage-generating machine, he writes. he appears to take perverse pleasure in saying things that shocked, and i normally ignore the daily presidential detonation, but this time was different. the tragic loss of life in ukraine will mean nothing -- and a true resolution of the conflict will be impossible -- if we can't this english between the attacker and the victim -- if we can't distinguish between the attacker and the victim. good morning. caller: the caller -- thanks for taking michael. the caller a couple of colors back -- callers back hit it on the head. joe biden started the war when he allowed putin to sell the oil . he freed up money for iran to give money to hamas for israel.

host: yuri, pennsylvania, democrat, good morning -- yuri, pennsylvania, democrat, good morning. caller: as far as ukraine goes, they were invaded and that's all there is to that. but i have a few questions to clear up. when putin invaded crimea, who was the president then? obama? host: you are asking me? caller: hello? host: you are asking me? i believe 2014, was that the year? caller: i think so. my question is, if it is obama's and biden's fault, why didn't trump get putin out of crimea at that time? do know what i mean?

during his first term putin took over crimea, right? host: in terms of assigning fault, you think that it goes back further than what we are talking about or even the beginning of this war? caller: as far as fault goes, i believe that it lays on putin. host: lynn in north carolina, independent, good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. you know, when i joined the military i was a kid. we had a briefing at the base theater, i remember the commander saying that we would not have to shoot no bullet or nothing and we would do it without even going to war. i wondered, how could they do that? they can do it through the media. it started when we allowed them

to come over here, russia and all these other countries, to buy into our media. once they bought fox news, that was it. they took over the media and they started bringing russia to the american people. even c-span, you had all these people up there and you wouldn't question them. just like them talk, talk, talk. the heritage foundation. all of these agencies put into our government, not directly by russia and these other countries, but they can do it through money. this is why this happened. they have come over and they have completely brainwashed us. you know, you've got people -- these kinds of things that you're talking about this morning, we are talking about, it would have been unheard-of with the american people talking like this, but this is why it

has been allowed. especially when the supreme court said that money is people. that gave them the open door. this thing has been planned. it's funny as a kid i saw this and i thought that our leaders, especially in the democratic party, for letting people get in like that and thinking that they or their friends. you've got to know who you are working with. host: you talk about the leaders of the parties, the leaders of the parties were speaking yesterday on capitol hill, including senate minority leader chuck schumer. this is what he had to say at the beginning of the day in the senate yesterday. [video clip] sen. schumer: rather than speak the truth, rather than acknowledge vladimir's role in starting the war, president trump, amazingly, blamed ukraine for putin's invasion. to quote the president, "you

should never have started it," he said. he was saying that to president zelenskyy. this is disgusting. disgusting after how this man has fought so hard and so valiantly, and it deliberately distorts the truth. it is awful to see an american president, it is disgusting to see an american president turn against one of our friends and openly side with a thug like vladimir putin. it is shameful to hear the president repeat putin's propaganda while laying the groundwork that favors russia and ukraine's expense. the people of ukraine did not start this war. vladimir putin did. ukrainians have fought and died on the battlefield to defend their home. the suffering and destruction of the ukrainian country and ukrainian people that they have endured is staggering all

because of vladimir putin. let's not forget, america, maybe some would say enough already. if we give into putin now, america will inevitably pay the price later. that is what history has shown. when you give into thugs and dictators you pay the price. hasn't donald trump and his allies learned the lessons of history? host: senate minority leader chuck schumer yesterday on the senate floor. also yesterday, senate majority leader john thune taking questions from reporters about president trump's comments about volodymyr zelenskyy. [video clip] >> are you at all concerned about the president's rhetoric blaming ukraine for starting the war and calling for elections in ukraine, which is what vladimir putin is calling for? sen. thune: i am in support of a peaceful outcome and result in ukraine.

i think now the administration, the president and his team, are working to achieve that. i think now you've got to give them some space, honestly. this is something that has ground on now for three years. there has been a lot of cost, a lot of death, and a lot of injury associated with it. i think it's in everyone's best interest, ukraine, russia, europe, the united states, if they can bring about a peaceful conclusion to the war. that is what this is about now. i think most of us want to support thier efforts as they move -- support their efforts as they move in that direction to hopefully a successful outcome. >> would you call president zelenskyy a dictator as president trump has? sen. thune: the president speaks for himself. what i want to see is a peaceful result, peaceful outcome. i think now there is a negotiation going on. let's see where that ultimately leads. hopefully we will get to the outcome that we all want to see.

host: senate majority leader john thune yesterday. a few more phone calls this first hour of washington journal. buffalo, new york, democrat, good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. it's just horrible to see an american president stoop russian propaganda the way that he is and not support a european nation like ukraine. we have backed out on ukraine so bad with the minsk agreement, we were there when they gave up their nuclear weapons to protect them against russia. not only us. i believe it was france, britain, everyone to protect them, and nobody stepped up to protect them when russia invaded them. it's horrible.

russia has taken over country after country, and baiting them with their little green men -- invading them with their little green men. city after city, mariupol, just the people that the russians have killed indiscriminately, the war crimes that have been documented in pictures. mariupol, 100,000 citizens they think were killed in there. the list goes on. last week, the russians bombed chernobyl, the biggest nuclear disaster in the whole world. i mean, i can't believe it. i can't believe it. host: joe in woodbridge, virginia, republican, good morning. caller: good morning. a few observations.

i think senator schumer is right about one thing. the people who live in ukraine did not start this war. what i mean by that is, i am 60 years old. i served, i wore the uniform, and i remember the historical event. i think young people are being brainwashed against the reality that the united states and nato bear great responsibility for what's going on in ukraine today. let me give a few thoughts. number one, the u.s. has been sucked into two world wars in europe by the europeans. i support president trump and not wanting to get us involved in another war in europe. number to come historically, for hundreds of years ukraine has not been a country. the eastern part of ukraine was part of the russian federation. the western part of ukraine was part of the austria-hungarian empire. i think we need to be very careful. let me give you one quick

analogy of what happened in ukraine while the u.s. bears responsibility. let's say the soviet union and the warsaw pact won the cold war and they started moving into central america, gobbling up those countries and incorporating them into the warsaw pact. let say they instituted a two in mexico and turned a pro-u.s. country into a pro-soviet union country? that is exactly how it is in ukraine and young people need to understand that. we put our state department in there. we instituted a soft coup. ukraine -- host: this is jamie in maryland. caller: good morning to you. i wanted to say that i think that the worst thing for america is the two-party system that we have. i think that it doesn't allow folks to actually support what they really align with.

i think that if everybody, if the presidents ran as independents we could accurately choose what we want. host: what do you think we want in ukraine? caller: in ukraine, i think, for one, i don't think that trump is wrong for asking for anybody that we support to give us, to help fund what it is they support. oil for whatever resources they have, i think he is correct for that. i think he's wrong for pointing the finger at ukraine as they started it. i think everyone knows that russia did. i don't want everything to become america's problem. i don't think that america -- i do understand our interests and i understand supporting your friends and allies, but at the same time we can't take on everybody's wars. as far as our own problems at home, if i can speak at that, i

think that that is a mixed bag. i think trump plays on people's fears, and i think he does that very well, and that is why we find ourselves in the situation we are in now. i think he's correct for going after wasteful spending and those kinds of things. i think the american people as a whole would like to get to the bottom of that, but i think he goes about it the wrong way. i don't think elana muska is the right one -- elon musk is the right one to be digging into our business. we had agencies in place for that and he should've used those agencies to do so. host: jamie in maryland for the last caller for this segment of the washington journal. up next, we will be joined by becky pringle of the national education we will talk about the trump administration's administration agenda and a conversation with, the former head of project 2025

and that admin -- project 2025. ♪ >> all this week, what c-span's new members of congress series where we stick with 12 republicans and democrats about their early lives, reviews careers, families, and why they decided to run for office. tonight, our interviews include texas republican branding gill who woke up on a cattle ranch, worked as an investment banker and found that the d.c. inquirer. >> i grew up in a cattle ranch and we raised beef cows. so ever since i can remember, working cows, building fences, driving tractors and doing everything you would expect to

do on thousand acre cattle ranch. >> watch new members of congress all this week, starting at 9:30 p.m. eastern on c-span. >> saturdays, watch american history tv's 10 week series, first 100 days, we will explore the early months of presidential administrations with historians, authors, and through the archives, learning about accomplishments and how events impacted presidential terms and the nation up to the present day . saturday, the first one hundred days of franklin roosevelt's presidency. his inaugural speech he said the only thing we have to fear is fear itself. early in his term the president called for a special session of congress to talk about the economic congress. it was franklin roosevelt who

coined the phrase first 100 days . watch american history tv series first 100 days, saturday at 7:00 p.m. eastern on american history tv on c-span two. >> "washington journal" continues. host: becky pringle is the president of the national teachers. in about two hours, the senate health education and labor committee will hold a vote on whether to advance linda mcmahon's nomination. how would you vote? guest: i would vote no. host: why? guest: had the opportunity to be in the hearing and i wanted to go so i can listen to her answers and she did nothing to a teachers and educators who work in the schools every day that she would protect them from the cuts that the trump administration is proposing and

would do nothing for the most vulnerable citizens in the schools and 95% of them go to public schools and she would do nothing to protect their civil rights. all of those specific jobs that the federal government and education plays. i would say to you that it left a chilling effect on educators all around this country, scrambling about what they could and could not teach and whether the school lose funding because they were teaching it and thinking about how they would have to have even more gaps to make up for gaps that we already have. i love the hearing not having confidence that she was qualified for the job and certainly that she would take care the most vulnerable kids. host: you talk about the because

donald trump wants to make in the area and even talked about eliminate the department of education. in some of those hearings, linda mcmahon answering those questions, --[video clip] >> requiring the secretary of education to develop a plan for downsizing the department of education and work with congress to eliminate entirely yes or no, do you agree that since the department was created by congress it would need an act of congress to actually close the department of education? >> certainly president trump understands we would work with congress and we would like to do this right and make sure that we are presenting a plan that i think senators could get on board with an congress could get on board with that would have a better functioning department of education but certainly does require congressional action. >> and in terms of the plans to

downsize, what would be the components of that plan that would not require congressional approval? >> i do believe, senator, that there are treatment of education by statutes and those departments would have to pay particular attention to what long before, there was department of education, we fulfilled the programs of our educational system. other agencies or parts of the apartment of education could better serve its students and parents on the local level. and really all for the president's mission which is to return education to the states. i believe as he does that the best education is closest to the child. >> if the department's downsize, would states and localities receive federal funding they currently receive? >> yes. it is not his goal to defund but to have it operate more efficiently.

host: becky pringle, play out what you think would happen if the department of education is downsized and the ways they were discussing there. guest: we know that every level of government has a responsibility in the education of students, federal, state and localities as well. school boards, all of them play a role. if the u.s. department of education was downsized, we know there are vital services students wouldn't get. i was talking to a parent from virginia who was concerned because they depend on the services that the department of education provides for her student with special needs and we know that the federal government, funding from the federal government supplies over 420,000 jobs so we don't get the jobs aren't there that class sizes are going to balloon and

the one on one attention that students need won't be there in it will affect the most vulnerable students from those living in poverty, those with disabilities. host: in terms of what they department of education does, does the department of education get to tell individuals and districts what they should and shouldn't teach? guest: they don't. it is left up to the school districts who together with parents, educators, some school districts involve the students in making those determinations themselves. the federal government's role which was established really at the end of the civil rights legislation of the late 60's so that it would play the job of ensuring every student has access and opportunity. we were linda mcmahon talking about going back to a time when the most a time when the

students with disabilities didn't have access. there was a time when we didn't provide the additional resources. it was a time when and we don't want to go back to that. parents and educators across this country is not what they need, they needed more resources, not less. host: becky pringle is the president of the national education association. here are the phone lines, democrats (202) 748-8000, republicans (202) 748-8001, independents (202) 748-8002, and for teachers, (202) 748-8003 is the number. we will look for your calls in this 45 minutes. brandon is a first out of venice florida, republican alina. good morning. -- republican line. good morning. caller: do not find it an issue

that we are spending so much money on education and we are still ranked at the spot that we are? guest: there is a lot of conversation about the ranking of the u.s. and what we don't dig into is the reality that the scores that they are using and talking about do what they really have always done. they tell us that the students who have more resources do better. we as a country have to do better. you know that the federal government promised that it would fund special education at an amount of 40% and we haven't even gotten close to that, not even halfway goes to that. we know that in other countries, they actually address the issues of equity and access to first so that they make sure those students who are coming to their schools are coming to their schools ready to learn and whatever gaps they may have because of social economic

status, schools and the systems surrounding them are there to try to fill those gaps. host: on spending and numbers come in 2024 school year, the federal budget for the department of education 220 $3 billion. there were 49 million students in pre-k through 12 inhis country last year, 3 million full-time equivalent teachers. the public school per student expenditures was $15,591 per student. each one of those 49 million students. as for the national center for education statistics. in terms of where you think the budget is going, what can teachers and parents expect in a 2025-2026? guest: i get the opportunity to travel all over the country and talk with teachers who are not just teachers. we saw this in covid and we know that we need bus drivers and those who feed them and

counseled on. all of those educators who surround students with what they need so they can learn. when i talk with them, what they say to me, is what i know to be true. i taught eighth grade science for 31 years. so i have first-hand knowledge of the kinds of gaps that our students tend to come to school with. what are educators are saying is, we need every social system in this country to make sure this country helps close the gaps. so when the kiddos come to us, for me, i am focused on teaching them the laws of motion. i'm not focused on having that weight as a teacher on that middle school or who has a responsibility of taking care of a younger kid like i did. those kinds of issues that we need counselors for, if we have the cuts we won't have those

counselors or the mental health professionals for the afterschool programs that the students need to not just feet ready to learn but to grow and thrive. that is what i hear from educators all over the country. they are very worried about the students not having what they need and the educators not having what they need to meet the individual needs of the students. host: massachusetts, russell, independent. caller: i just want to thank becky pringle for taking the time to speak to everyone. have a question, senator ed markey asked linda mcmahon to commit to not cutting federal funding to schools. she deflected the question. we then asked her if she could commit to not using federal funding to cover from public schools to be a must for tax breaks for the rich and again she deflected the question. how does not -- how is this not concerning to everyone.

dish should be a damming statement for any person -- this should be a damming statement for every person so how is this not concerning for every senator, both democrat and republican? guest: it should be concerning. senator markey probably had the quest to -- best line in hearing where he called doge the department of gutting education. we are all concerned because linda mcmahon would not make that commitment that she would not cut funding for the kids. host: this is karen, a teacher in youngstown, ohio on the line set aside for teachers. caller: i was a secretary in arizona, but i raised at deaf sun in the western suburbs of chicago. if it weren't for the public education, he would not be where he is now. he was profoundly deaf or is and has a great job, married and has

a son. he is perfectly normal except he is deaf. but there was such great deaf education in the western suburbs that was put in by northwestern university back in the early 1970's. it was funded all through the government. i believe in public education. host: thanks for sharing your story. becky pringle? guest: thank you for using your voice to talk for so many parents who are concerned when the memo came out, we had parents crying because they thought that was going to happen right away. and in fact, even though it was rescinded, the cuts have started. we have a teacher in georgia, a special education teacher in georgia, and their job is to

help high school students transition from high school out of high school into the world. so the concern is those students would be able to do that is very real and this teacher lost their job last week, all of her students that don't have that ability to have the transition plan in place so they can go out into the world and live on their own and live their life. it is a very real for parents and it is why they are coming together finding their voice in using their voice and making sure they let their members of congress no, this is not ok. this is affecting my child and the child sitting next to my child which affects my child. host: we come to this associated press headline, donald trump looks to repurpose federal money to expand school choice programs . explain what that means, where and how much money we are

talking about. what do you know from the executive order? guest: we know this is a continuation of exactly what donald trump did in his first term, that he tried to privatize public education and take billions and billions of dollars out of public tax dollars out of the public school system. we know that doesn't work. and that is not what voters want . we saw that in this election in kentucky, every county, every one of their counties voted against vouchers because they understand that they want their neighborhood public schools are funded and vouchers take money away from that. at the same thing happened in nebraska and colorado. the voters overwhelmingly said that is not what we want. so we know the voters didn't vote for that. they voted for making sure their students, their families have

what they need. we know that taking public dollars out of public schools, that has been a scheme for decades. there is absolutely no evidence that helps with the learning of kids. it actually hurts our public schools and goes to dismantling them, which impacts the 90% of students who go to our public schools. host: two main -- to maine, -- caller: i am concerned because they are not learning, i have a second grader who is not learning to read it. i have my 20-year-old grandson, my oldest quit school at 16 because he wasn't getting his needs met, and i have another

fourth-grader who is very intelligent but can't get the advanced classes that he needs. the schools are failing and i hear you talk about how wonderful the teachers are, but the schools are failing. i think vouchers and i think that's competition will make them better. guest: i am a grandparent and my two little ones are in public schools. and we all want our students and our kids to have the highest quality public education they possibly can. we want everyone's kids to have that because we are a society and it impacts all of us. cutting funds from public schools is not the way to get at that. we have never lived up to our

promise in funding our schools for those who are in rural areas. as those who live in suburban or urban areas. we saw with covid where they didn't have the conductivity they need so they could continue to learn but we know that that has been an issue and is certainly in our schools. so cutting funds will not address the issue is the color race. we need to make sure we have the funds to need the individual needs of her children as well as others. host: not the first caller to make that argument. that vouchers will allow for more competition and more competition will make public schools better. guest: vouchers have been in place for three decades.

that has never been the case. there have never been any evidence that vouchers help to improve the learning of our students. so it is a failed experiment and we need to focus on funding our public schools, which we have never done. that is what we need to focus on. host: denver colorado, this is john, good morning. caller: i currently work as a guidance counselor in the general mental health staff are at west high school in denver. ever since trump got in office and started messing around with affirmative education and doing his classic getting rid of everything, we lost quite a bit of programs and stuff for our

lgbt students and disabled students and students who are not very financially able. it has been horrible and horrible on mental health and has made my job that much more difficult. and i love teaching. before i was a counselor, host: texas, republican. caller: i want to note that the voucher program, it is industry that self funding voucher programs for president obama and president clinton worked for their kids. they were able to choose the schools they would want to go to. public schools is a lack of discipline. some public schools, case studies, i don't hear any breath

of air or sense of urgency or embarrassment by the outcomes of student test scores. i want to give you another stat. the department of education, john stossel showed up at the department of education some 15 years ago. he thought, let's get a tour and see what goes on in this building. he knew the outcome and was demonstrating and was dutifully kicked out of the building because we are not supposed to know what goes on at the department of education. what happens behind those doors? he was curious what they teach. host: let me give you a chance to respond. guest: we know that we want to have safe, equitable schools for every student. we want to create an environment that is inclusive and happy and

joyful and challenging. we want a deep and rich curriculum for all of our students and to do that we know that it takes qualified, caring teachers, other educators. it takes resources to make sure we have them and we know that the cuts and the threats to our educators is doing nothing but driving educators out of the profession, which we know that we have an educator shortage in the country. so as we think about what our students need, especially after going through a pandemic which we all went through, we know they need more mental health services and more counselors. we know they need more teachers so we can keep the class size down. the department of education was extremely helpful at the state

and local level in making sure we had additional jobs and raising the pay of education so they would states in the profession. those of the kinds of things the department of education should still be focused on because that is an issue that in this country we have yet to address. another headline from npr, schools and colleges have two weeks to band d.e.i. and education experts warn that want to be easy. what are we talking about in terms of programs that you have seen d.e.i. initiatives. how much do you know is being spent on those initiatives and how big of a deal would it be to hold back? guest: for educators, the biggest concern they have is the lack of understanding exactly what kind of funding will be cold and cut if they, for

example, go ahead with the black history program. i was talking with a teacher in south carolina last week and she was sharing with us that she had to turn in her plans for a black history program that she had done for a decade. she had to turn it in right before so she didn't have time to make changes because the school district is afraid that they then will have cut funding, not connected to d.e.i.. it is not connected to that but because they are afraid the school will lose funding if they have a black history program. you have heard stories like that all over the country. it was one of the things that one of the senators talk about at the hearing that educators

all over the country will be scrambling after listening to linda mcmahon say that she would in fact support cutting funds to schools that didn't comply with the d.e.i. executive order that not only for educators putting them in a place where they are wondering, can i teach this and what do i need to take out of my curriculum, but also threatening certification. this is the kind of scare tactics and division tactics that are coming from this administration that are having to just scrambling all over the country and asking the question, should i stay in the profession. host: the line for teachers, mitch in jackson. good morning. caller: i was wondering why we are spending so much money on her students in the school

district and we are failing grades and test scores have gone down and they have gone down for the past 30 years. host: you are a teacher? caller: i was a guidance counselor. why do you think public schools are better than private schools or charter schools? the second question is, i never found out how much the president, you, make or your officers. we see local districts don't make money but the nea has salaries and we can never get the salaries of those officers. i was wondering if you could answer both questions please. host: becky pringle? guest: it is important to remember that for the nea, we don't say that there shouldn't be a private school or charter school. what we say is that public education is the foundation. it is the responsibility of our

democracy to ensure that every student, every one of them has access and resources and opportunities to live and grow and thrive. that is the responsibility of the government at every level, federal, state and local level. so if the parent decides they want to send their child to a private school, then that is their decision. but the government should beat making sure that all of our students have access, and that is making sure that our public schools are funded at a level that addresses those issues. when we talk about the per pupil funding, we know that our public schools are the hub of every community and for too many of them, they have to provide social services from health care into making sure students are fed and making sure students have access to afterschool

programs that our students who are living in poverty don't necessarily have. they have a large responsibility for making sure that our students not only are successful academically but they have the social emotional learning they need it so they can work collaboratively with others and think critically and then go onto a career. those other things the public school must ensure every of their students have. with other schools, private schools, private schools for example, they can make the choice as to whether they accept a student and that will require more services. public schools accept everyone. host: what would you say to his question what the nea salaries? guest: nea as well as other salaries are available as we are required to make them. host: gary in philadelphia, independent. caller: i wanted to address the

amount of fraud that goes on in special education. my wife works for a district in a special education. i think they are paying more like $17,000 or $18,000 per kid. and her boss'boss got let go because they kept tapping into the flesh -- special education fund and using it for other things. she always strived very hard for the kids to get those services and never got the services because the principal and the assistant vice simple word embezzling funds until they got fired. host: becky pringle on waste, fraud and abuse. guest: school districts should always have protocols to make sure the money that is being sent to them from whatever level of government is being expended in the way that it was designed to be, whether it is a program

or whether it is going to hire teachers or paraprofessionals, or whether it is going to the direct needs of students if they need a specialized wheelchair, if they need any kind of specialized care based on their disability. this should be a process in place. i don't know anything about this particular instance but the department of education at every level in the state level has ways if you have discovered that that you can certainly report that incident. host: the department of education was one of those agencies whose inspector general was targeted for removal by donald trump in the first days of the second top administration for what does the doe inspector general do? do you know of their efforts to root out waste, fraud and abuse? guest: they have a variety of

jobs and they are -- and the targeting of the president started early before he took office. he was very clear he was going to target people and he has followed through with that, but not just those people in those kind of positions, what we have found is by gutting the department of education as well as many of the other agencies here has slowed it down the responsiveness to for example our students who have done everything we have asked them to do and now they want to go on to college, and they need assistance as they are filling out the financial aid forms and as they are applying to college. with the president has done is gutted those departments and a students and families are scrambling trying to figure out at this time of year where the

students are anxious and parents are anxious where they need the additional assistance. and those federal workers who are no longer there to assist the parents and his students has put them in a place where they are fearful about whether or not they are going to be able to go to college. host: does the nea cover federal employees at the department of education? are they part of your union? guest: not at the federal department of education but we do represent those teachers and support staff who teach and work with the children of our servicemen and women. so here in the u.s. and around the world we represent them and they are under threat. host: george in pennsylvania, democrat. caller: i don't understand why we are not using technology.

this is 2025. i watch c-span and i am going to get to this real quick. i watched c-span during the hearings in the aids don't know anything, we will get back to you. this should all be, it is all audible and should be into a database and should have everything at their disposal. we should educate our kids, everybody from three-12 years old because man suffers a lack of knowledge, teach everybody. if you get -- we already know with the most talented people are. all you have to do is look at our entertainers, dancers, actors, musicians. these are the most talented people in the world and everybody worships them all over the world. they worship our talented people. host: becky pringle, what do you want to pick up on that? guest: technology absolutely is

essential. we learned this in covid, didn't we. all the students who didn't have access, either they didn't have broadband access or didn't have the tools. one of the things that the american rescue plan did for us, for our schools was pass and close the gap. we still haven't closed it to the degree we need to. we that not only are students but the families need access so that they are able to use those tools and they know how to use them and they have them readily available at school and at home. host: we saw a lot of teachers leave the profession during covid. are we at the point in 2025 where we have made up for those losses and are there enough teachers in the pipeline right now for the needs of the number of children in this country? guest: we have not made up for

those losses. we are still working on the strategies that we talked about during the biden-harris administration. we know that when we talk to educators, we asked them where they going to stay in the profession and we were surprised. 55% of them said they were planning, not thinking, planning on leaving the profession. when we dug into those numbers, it went up over it to 64 black teachers which is a huge problem that we want a diverse profession. host: did you ask them why? was it aging out? guest: no, it was not, but what was interesting and a little terrifying, it was every level. it was the beginning educators and those in the middle of their careers and then educators at the end of their careers who is still needed some years to invest in their pensions, they were leaving to.

as we dug into that, the number one word used was respect. i said, ok, i want you to dig into it and tell me what it means for you. what they said was, of course they have ever received the kind of professional pay that reflects the important work they do in our society. so that is an issue. but they didn't stop there. they talked about professional respect and people who haven't spent a day in the classroom, making policies and determining what they should teach and the students should learn. all of that spotlight on them and pressure around their freedom to teach. host: was it spotlight and pressure from a national level down the way folks appear on capitol hill talk about them or was it spotlight and pressure on a local level and the parents and the people who are focused on that school in particular? guest: yes, it was a but it

really did depend. in those communities where parents and educators, community members came together and they worked together, particularly in community schools where they supported the whole student and provided resources, we didn't have that at the local level. it was just coming from the talking heads inside the beltway . but it was demoralizing that they are a professional and not treated as other professionals are that they know their skill and craft and should be able to make those decisions. as we mounted strategies from apprenticeships to increasing their salaries to making sure that teachers were in those positions to make those decisions, we were starting to stem that tide. host: what is the average

starting salary for teachers? guest: it varies widely. it can be as low as $30,000 where educators can't live, and you saw this a couple of years ago where we had teachers living in cars. americans didn't know that that they may do so little that they couldn't support themselves and their families. and we know that in collective bargaining states, those are states that have the right for teachers to come together and the union to collectively bargain their salaries. they make more and have less of a crisis in terms of educator shortage. host: what percentage of teachers can get a pension? guest: so that varies as well. we are in the wrong direction with pensions where it states are not investing in their pensions in the way that they should and we have some pensions in some estates that are in

trouble and we are very concerned. i will tell you and tie this back to the other conversation we are having that the state governments are very fearful that the federal government will walk away from its responsibility in funding education, particularly special education and that funding will fall to them and that necessarily means that they are going to either have to try to make it up or they are going to pass on those cuts to the local level. that is what folks are fearful of and that is going in the wrong direction. host: this is lee in oklahoma, thanks for waiting. caller: i wanted to know what is going to happen to the school lunch programs and head start. host: school lunch and head start? guest: we are very concerned about that. there is one of the first things that were on the chopping block was headstart. my mom was a cook at the headstart program and the little

ones, three and four years old, as adults they would come back and thank her for feeding them and giving them the best thanksgiving dinner they ever had. it makes a difference that we start with young learners and make sure they are ready to step into kindergarten. we fought hard not only to have universal meals for kids at school but have healthy meals which is so important for learning and growth. we know because the top administration has said they are going to cut those programs and even though the memo was rescinded, they made very clear that the executive order was going to go forward. we need everyone to join us and everyone to text action to48744. call your senator and let them know that you believe every student should have access to healthy, nutritious meals.

that is our responsibility and the only way they can come to school ready every day. host: if a viewer to send that text, what does that mean? guest: we put you in contact with your member of congress so you can tell them exactly how you feel about the cuts that are happening in your own schools. you can find out more about those cuts in your local area, and you can join us in our action across the state, but especially in your own community to fight back against any cuts to your child's neighborhood public school so that every student has what they need and what they deserve read -- deserve. host: wayne in washington. they for waiting. caller: i have been listening and i don't agree with the breakfast. i do believe that the kids with

low income should get something to eat for lunches. we need to start doing things -- host: what is your question? caller: how come you can't remember your salary? it was pretty easy for me to find it. host: that is weighing in washington. i will give me the final minute. guest: who doesn't want a student to have breakfast so they can start the day off right and learn? everyone wants our kids to be fed. for us to see these cuts coming to public schools and it to the students when we know that at the end of the day, and we will

see this in a couple of weeks, we are looking at this administration finding billions of dollars in tax cuts for billionaires who already have more. what we are asking is that this government live up to its promise and make sure our students have more so they can live and grow and thrive in this country and be the leaders that we know we need and that they want to be. host: becky pringle is the president of the national education association. it is easy to find, nea.org. we appreciate your time. guest: thank you. good to be with you. host: coming up in a few minutes, open forum, any public policy issue, political issue. the phone lines are yours to do so. the numbers are on your screen. the e more than 60 new members ofhe u.s. house and c-span has been talking to them

about their lives and careers and why they ran for congress. take a listen to a few of those stories, including from congress members. [video clip] >> when i was in elementary school in fifth grade, in 1984, a long time ago before anybody had computers at home and cell phones, my teacher had an apple computer in the back of the classroom and taught some of us how to program it. i thought it was a classroom toy or activity until i got really good at it and she said, you should consider a degree in computer science or engineering. and i thought, people get paid to do this? i had no idea. that spark an interest and led me to continue and eventually end up at m.i.t. where i studied electrical engineering. >> that is quite an education. your early professional experiences, what were they in engineering? >> i work for motorola and the

chicago suburbs in automotive electronics. that work became onstar for gm. it was a very exciting time. this was the late 1990's and i was a hardware engineer which was a lot of fun back then. >> i am a fifth generation of texas and fourth generation of fort worth. it has been fascinating to trace my family roots and my great, great, great grandfather with -- moved there and started to help build the railroad. his name was ike grodsky and he was a character. just really establishing roots and helping build not only fort worth but helped build texas. my family has been part of for a number of generations. with that kind of base of my

family being there, not only in texas but fort worth, i know and it has been instilled in me from the very beginning that we are here to serve the community and any and all opportunities i have had to get back to the community i love so much i have been able to do it. i got into politics 12 years ago, 13 years ago and have loved every second of it representing southwest tarrant county and now the great honor of western tarrant county. >> i was a science and chemistry teacher and taught every science . in my last eight years of teaching, i was also a teacher union president. it was that advocacy for public education, students and teachers , to push back against top down policy i can see the negative impact of in the classroom that got me more politically engaged and led to be running for a state senate position and ended

up flipping a seat from republican to democrat that was held by the other side 400 years in 2020 and was reelected in 2022. now i am proud to serve a larger region of central new york in d.c. >> "washington journal" continues. host: here is where we are on capitol hill today. the senate comes in at 10:00 a.m. eastern. also here in washington, d.c., c-span's coverage of the conservative political action coerce taking place. it is known acpac and this morning you will hear from senator cynthia lummis, representative james, and others and will pick up this afternoon with several sessions that feature among them speaker of the hoe ke johnson, attorney generapabondi, former trump white houseolical commentator steve bannon as well. coverage this morning starts at 10:00 a.m. this afternoon, at 2:50 p.m. and that is all here on the c-span

networks, c-span.org, and the free c-span video app. now it is open forum, any political or public issue you want to talk about. this is steve up first in pennsylvania, republican. caller: good morning, john. you are a treasure. before you there was none and after you there will be none. you are the greatest. i can understand why becky pringle didn't want to answer the question of what her salary was. her salary is eight times that of an average schoolteacher. last year she earned $495,000. host: where are the numbers that you look up so i can look them up with you. caller: all you have to do is google becky pringle salary, and it is all over the place. three different sites have it exactly to the penny. host: anything else you want to

add? caller: well, this is why there is no transparency in what these people do and all they want to do is continue their gravy train at the expense of our students and the conditions of our schools. host: that is steve in pennsylvania. this is willy slidell, louisiana. caller: i am a 20 year military veteran wounded in vietnam, two tours. i wanted to talk about the d.e.i. thing. when i was in the military, it was an opportunity for me and to think about it and you never talk about it, but blacks were only 12% of the population of the united states but 34% of the fighting forces in vietnam. nobody talked about the equal

opportunity then. host: this is scott and the sunflower state, independent. caller: thank you for taking my call. interesting on the education. i wish that students upon graduation would have to take a citizens test in a civics to be a bigger part of our curriculum. also, i would have liked to have mentioned ukraine. i think it is crazy we are blaming them for the start of the war. going back to education quickly, i think students should be taught how to discern information and to know what is truth and what is fiction. they do that in european countries to where students have

the ability to understand what fake news is about and they will look for the truth of things. stm is another -- s tem is another part that helps them solve it because we don't know what careers they are going to have in 20 years. my last point is, when i call in to a guest and i have a question, i wish i could get the follow-up because they don't always answer the question that i am trying to ask. an example as they were asking this lady for her salary and they didn't answer. but if they had let the color come back on, they could say you didn't answer my question. the last time was a politician and he didn't answer the question and it is frustrating when that happens here but again i thank you for taking my call and i hope you have a wonderful day. host: this is alastair in

washington, d.c., republican. caller: i just wanted to share in experience. i grew up down south and i attended about 23 schools in my education. host: 23 different schools? how does one do that? caller: parents that were transient. i got a wide view of what is better funded and less funded schools on how they taught. the more wealthy schools taught critical thoughts and thinking. it seems like the poor schools taught nothing but sit down and shut up and we are babysitting you until you go to prison. i was actually told that directly in one school. years later, i ended up just leaving home early and joining the military but later on, my own son, i watched him and tried

keeping as few schools as possible so he could concentrate on academics. and it seemed like it was almost impossible to keep order in the classes in public schools and i wish something was done about that. it seemed like a cup of class clowns can just derail a class and there is nothing the teachers can do. speaking of teachers, i learned this growing up, teachers, there was a teacher who refused to teach and i would ask, could you explain this to me, and she was busy reading of more romance novel and pointed at the board to read the board. i literally went out of class to the principal's office to ask, is anything we can do about this teacher. and they said no, she is tenured . that is when i learned what tenured was. i was appalled. host: this is bill and alan

wood, georgia, democrat. caller: i just wanted to say about trump and volodymyr zelenskyy, putin, he wants volodymyr zelenskyy to have an election but nothing about putin having an election. also, what in the world are we doing messing with the lower level working man and we have all of these people up in washington that go up there primarily broke and become billionaires and not doing anything about them? host: that is built in georgia. coming up and 9:00 on the east coast. the senate is in at 10:00. here is a headline on what the senate has been working on this week and the house as well. senate republicans digging in on their budget plan.

donald trump singh a broad house budget bill throwing cold water on the senate blueprint. it was senate majority leader john thune who was asked about president trump coming out publicly in favor of the house republican approach to the budget process. here is 90 seconds. [video clip] >> are you defined the president by going ahead with your own budget plan when he strongly endorsed with the house is working on? >> i think he has made it clear for a long time he would prefer one big beautiful bill. we are fine with that. the house can provide one, we are prepared to work with them to get that across the finish line but we believe the president also lacks functionality. the legislation that will -- we will be working on and voting on tomorrow addresses those three critical priorities and hopefully in the end we will be able whether it is one bill or

two bills to get all the things the president has outlined his objectives across the finish line in a reconciliation bill. it is a tactical one. the strategic objective is the same and that is to extend the tax policy, strengthen the economy, rebuild the military, create energy dominance for this country and secure our border. host: john thune yesterday at the post senate lunch press briefing. the vote he was talking about taking place today, at least scheduled to do so. today, expecting to do so for a vote on cash patel to hide the federal bureau of investigation. plenty of stories about that in today's papers. you can watch that vote on c-span two. gavel-to-gavel coverage of the senate on c-span 2. coverage of the house is here on c-span. here is dan, cherry hill, independent. caller: i thought the most

important issue in the election was what's going on now with russia, ukraine, and nato and the fact that the president trump is now leading us to change over a policy that has been carried out for 80 years against and defense against the greatest threat in american history, the nuclear threat. for the last 80 years russia has researched with putin and if you look at a map, putin is our biggest enemy. nobody of any authority, military, or any other authority at the time trump was elected the first term, nobody thought that full support of ukraine, giving them everything necessary

to win was not the proper issue. but as soon as he got into office, trump started shaking up the idea of nato and he started behind the scenes backing off. his actions belie any idea he ever supported ukraine and that he has always been backing russia and waiting for the right time to deal with that. host: what do you expect nato to look like four years from now? guest: good question guest: good question. god knows. nato is needed now more than ever in its history, at least again since putin came back. we were free from the problem of russia, but russia broke up. now it's come back. i think that basically trump made a deal with the devil. putin helped him get elected,

and he made a promise that he got something personal for him it, which was help to get elected. it was against the interest of america, 100% against the interest, and he has now diverted his cult and his followers to backing up whatever he does, which is his own idea to support russia. it's not supported, again, by any authority. i think it came out of a deal that he made for his personal benefit. host: got your point, dan. this is portland, oregon, democrat. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you, john, and thank you, c-span. trump is bringing back the gilded age between 1870 and 1890 during the reconstruction era and the progressive era. these eras were politically corrupt and mob bosses ruled. the rich got richer at the expense of the poor.

i am 70 years old. i voted since 1973. 52 years as my duty ads a citizen of a democracy. i believe that trump is destroying our country by appointing himself a dictator and directing his minions to get to anyone who opposes him. finally, the bible has predicted an armageddon. i believe that trump is the anti-christ come to destroy our country. host: all right, this is trevor, washington, d.c., independent. good morning. caller: good morning to you. i'm associated with the notre dame university in indiana. my observation is that our country is not as divided as the media leads people to believe. we've fallen into a trap called

the madam speakerrism of minor differences, which is a fraudian concept. we tend to think that people who are very similar to us are -- we focus on minor differences to get in conflict with them. in other words, white evangelical protestants, 18-year-old males are not that different from east coast liberals. they eat the same food. they do the same things. they have the same interests. someone is being played here. host: trevor, what should we focus on? what are those similarities we should focus on? caller: that's a great question. someone we should focus on is where our values align. the party system has failed us. host: where do our values align, trevor? caller: i challenge you to go --

i'm left of center, and i challenge you to south carolina and find someone who will not take care of their hispanic neighbors' dog when they're out of town. it's appreciable in human interaction that has been disrupted by digital, frenetic communication. host: republican from california, good morning. caller: hi, thanks for taking my call. there's a couple of different things. i'm trying to keep it short, straight to the point. trump is doing what the people asked him to do. why waste money on a never-ending war in ukraine?

then, the lady you just had on, becky pringle, the president of the national education association, she is an example of why the education needs to be shut down. that is like the blind leading the blind. i don't know where she went to school, but within the minute that i watched her, she made two grammatical errors, not that i speak any better, but i don't claim to be the best and want to go ahead and not encourage our children to do better. two times in one minute she had said in her conversations the responses of the administration, when that word alone should have been response. not responses. host: ok. robert, massachusetts, democrat. go ahead. caller: yes, i got one problem with mr. trump. i'm very worried about his

mental health, to be honest with you. because there's one thing we have to admit. he's a pathological liar. if you had a child that said that many lies, you would have to send him to a doctor. the man also has attention deficit disorder. because he has to have attention on him at all times. he don't want nobody else to outshine him. he also is a manic depressive. he gets depressed. he gets angry. he gets mean. people have to make him happy. host: robert's diagnosis in massachusetts. this is freddy in alabama. good morning. caller: good morning. can you hear me? host: yes, sir. caller: i wanted to talk about the lady that was on with education. the problem is throughout america is this. children, when they go to

school, starting from kindergarten, must have certain disciplines. host: ok. yes, sir. caller: they must be able to hear, to listen, and obey f. a child leaves a home and do not have the basic disciplines, the foundations of learning, they cannot learn. that's all over america. that means the problem is in our homes. when the patients send the children to go to school, they are not prepared to learn the basic disciplines of listening, being quiet, being respectful. they don't have that. and when they go in the classroom, the teacher has to be a parent, a mother or father. in order to get that child in the lane to learn. that's the problem in america. all over america. you can't teach what is unteachable.

it's like a mechanic go to the store to buy a part for a car. if the car is built wrong, it won't fit the car. host: this is washington in davidsonville, good morning. caller: hello. good morning. washington is not my real name, i hate to say. but it's a crazy time we live in. i worked for the federal government for 16 years. i've never registered for a political party. i've never donated to a political candidate. and i've never really been on twitter or social media or anything. i have been recently during all these doge goings-on, and just the level of hate, level of just joy and gloating by people as my colleagues and some of the two million-plus federal employees are just fired in the most insulting, humiliating,

degrading way. host: can you say what agency you work at? caller: no, absolutely not. absolutely not. you know what? i'm not going to say that, because it's a terrifying time. you will be singled out, fired. the point is this. we are working people. we have families. we are not rich people. i don't know who you guys think in the government is so rich. it boggles my mind. we are working people. the degrading, the humiliation of the government employee is the final act of grinding the working man into the dust. all the private sector guys, you've already lost everything. any job security. you can be fired for looking at the boss funny, sleeping with the boss. they'll fire you. you don't have any rights. your retirement, ha, you're on your own. i hope you invest in crypto, because we're not going to give you a pension.

your healthcare, i don't have to explain the healthcare you guys get. so instead of saying these people have it so good, why don't i demand the things i used to have? i want to drag these working guys down in the mud with me. host: do you think you'll stay in the federal government? caller: yes, because i care. i care about the mission. all these people think are fat cats. a lot of us are dedicated public servant who is wake up every day to try to make americans' life better, and not just some stupid company that's selling crap to somebody for cheap. when did government service become -- why are people so lost? that government service is not honored? over just personal profit, personal nonsense. this is last point i'm going to make. i can't dispel all of the false information that's going on. the biggest problem i see is people cannot think logically. they're presented with a

misleading argument that cherry picks fact, and it confirms what they already think is true. and they just don't do any critical thinking. oh, this smart guy on my tribe came up with this, i'm going to beat somebody orr the head. it wouldn't make any sense at all if you look at it. quick example, and then i'm going to get off the line. final 10 seconds, i'm sorry. r.f.k. jr., his nomination hearing. the right was going crazy, oh, these democratic senators, they're so shrill, they're all in the pocket of big pharma. look at this chart of all the donations by big pharma to the democrats. you can guess how upset they're going to be by how much money they get from pharma. nobody bothered to ask, do the republicans get any money from big pharma companies? you think big pharma put all their money in the democrats' pockets? these people need to think. you need to think basic, logical thinking. ask it make any sense at all or is it absolute?

host: federal employee. this is texas republican, good morning. caller: yes, good morning. one thing for sure you can say about trump is, you know, another caller said he's doing the will of the people. definitely seems like he's giving everybody what they voted for that voted for trump. everything. but sometimes if something is too good to be true, you have to stop and think. is it too good to be true? the republican party used to be the party of the constitution. we like what we're seeing, but do we like how we're getting it? i mean, from where does trump get the authority to save tiktok when congress already banned it and the supreme court approved it? what about line item vetoing the 14th amendment with an executive order? and where is elon musk getting the authority to dismantle the

federal agencies? host: you're calling in on the republican line. did you vote for donald trump in 2024? caller: yes, sir. i voted straight republican my whole life. you know, i voted for change. you know, no one wants unaccountable, unelected democracy ruining their lives. but are we just replacing another unaccountable set of bureaucrats to do the same thing? what's musk even doing? he's doing an audit, but what kind of an audit? what's his methodology? is anybody asking any questions? we're talking about billions of dollars and everybody is getting all excited, so it takes a thousand billion to make a trillion. what are we getting? are we getting efficiency? or are we just consolidating power under a different set of

bureaucrats? host: this is rich in the volunteer state, independent, go ahead. caller: hey, john. i think i heard someone call you steve the other day. today, pedro. don't feel bad, i heard somebody called pedro john recently. host: it happens, rich. what's on your mind this morning? caller: well, i have a long list. i'm going keep my own journal about various points that i don't hear brought up very often. it's very frustrating. since the education came up, i'm a 30-year veteran, retired public schoolteacher. i just make two points in response to becky pringle. i think my tax dollars, i want them to go to educate children in whatever setting it happens to be, whether it's public school, charter school, voucher,

home school. the goal is education. and if that's taking place, that's where the dollars should go. secondly, her point about professional, i will say this, i was almost never -- i mean, it's so rare in 30 years that anyone would ever challenge what i was teaching or the methods used. now, if i were to try to teach values, various things, social engineering, i think that's what parents object to. parents -- host: give me an example, rich. caller: well, if it were something about gender identity or something like that, something about teaching, i don't know, various sexual education at lower -- i thought in sixth grade, i taught middle school, i taught in high school. and there are age-appropriate

things, and lit tire. i taught literature. and there are certain types of books that really are age-inappropriate to be in certain libraries. and parents know about parenting. that is something, if a surgeon tried to tell the parents something about gender identity, they would object to that too. i think she was disingenuous. it was clear she was talking about parents not knowing that teachers know more than parents. well, about certain things, yes. the parents would agree. about parenting and values, no. host: rich, what topics did you teach when you were teaching? caller: my topics, you mean subjects? host: subjects. caller: well, in sixth grade we taught everything, every subject except for music and once a week

i went to the library, and we went with them. middle school, social studies, tennessee history, english, reading. that was pretty much it in middle school. english in high school. host: rich, i've got 30 seconds left. give me a tennessee history fact that most americans don't know. caller: oh, wow. well, i guess about the state of franklin being here in this region, east tennessee, part of north carolina, western north carolina, and being that a lot of the original -- actually this is what i was calling in about. it was about congress. host: that's all right, rich. we'll talk again down the road. we'll talk to you next month. caller: ok, thanks.

host: last caller in this segment of the "washington journal," about l.a. minutes left this mo in that time we will talk with paul dans, former head of project 2025 about the role that that policy road map is playing today. stick around. we will be right back. >> looking to contact your members of congress? well, c-span is making it easy for you, with our 2025 congressional director. get essential contact information for government officials, all in one place. this compact, spiral-bound guide contains bioand contact information for every house and senate member of the 119th congress. contact information on congressional committees, the president's cabinet, federal agencies, and state governorses. the congressional director costs

$32.95 plus shipping and handling. every purchase helps support c-span's nonprofit operations. scan the code on the right or go to c-spanshop.org to preorder your copy today. >> democracy is always an unfinished creation. >> democracy is worth dying for. >> democracy belongs to us all. >> we are here in the sanctuary of democracy. >> great responsibilities fall once again to the great democracies. >> american democracy is bigger than any one person. >> freedom and democracy must be constantly guarded and protected. >> we are still at our core a democracy. >> this is also a massive victory for democracy and for freedom.

>> c-spanshop.org is c-span's online store. browse through our latest collection of c-span products, apparel, books, home decor, and accessories. there's something for every c-span fan, and every purchase helps support our nonprofit operation. shop now or any time at c-spanshop.org. >> democracy, it isn't just an idea. it's a process, a process shaped by leaders, elected to the highest offices, and entrusted to a select few with guarding its basic principles. it's where debates unfold, decisions are made, and the nation's course is charted. democracy in real time. this is your government at work. this is c-span. giving you your democracy unfiltered.

>> saturdays, watch american history tv's 10-week series, "first 100 days." we'll explore the early months of presidential administrations with historians, authors, and through the c-span archives. we learn about accomplishments and setbacks and how events impacted presidential terms and the nation, up to the present day. saturday, the first 100 days of franklin roosevelt's presidency at the height of the great depression. president roosevelt defeated president herbert hoover in a landslide. in his inaugural speech, he said the only thing we have to fear is fear itself. early in his term, the president called for a special session of congress to tackle the economic crisis. dozens of bills were passed to put people back to work and improve living conditions. it was franklin roosevelt who later kind the phrase first 100 days. watch american history tv series "first 100 days," saturday at 7:00 p.m. eastern on american history tv on c-span2.

>> "washington journal" continues. host: paul dans is back at our desk. mr. dans, the last time you were here was june of 2024. you were serving as the director of project 2025, the presidential transition effort at the heritage foundation. can you walk us through what happened with you and with project 2025 in the months since then? guest: well, project 2025 was a 2 1/2-year effort. we started back in the spring of 2022. it was really a coming together of citizens all over the country. we ultimately became 110 groups, all focused on helping the next conservative president be ready to hit the ground running day one. what's happened, we got a lot of work done and made a contribution, and very happy to see that these ideas have entered the blood stream, and what president trump and his team is accomplishing right now is miraculous. i stepped down from the project

in the end of summer of 2024. but what's going on, we basically wrapped our work by then. i should say, i no longer work at the heritage foundation. the ideas today are my own. it's been fantastic to watch president trump really move like greased lightning right now. host: how much of project 2025 is evident in today being the first month of the trump administration, the second trump administration? guest: well, this is all donald trump. a man didn't get up and say fight, fight, fight, none of this would be happening. so, you know, it's really the spirit of one man, but that's the essence of leadership. many of the ideas that we brought in project 2025 are common sense. they're ultimately about bringing people back into our own government. it's a government of, by, and for the people, and that was the central post of project 2025, that we needed to deconstruct

this unaccountable administrative state. host: how do you deconstruct it? guest: you start by making it transparent, and you have to show the rest of the country what's been happening here in washington. that's part of the genius of donald trump, working with new folks like elon musk to really bring to the fore what we've all kind of suspected. you know, what's being unearthed now is earth-shattering, really. we have a $2 trillion structural deficit in this country, going on $50 trillion of debt. anybody who claims that the status quo is working is either in on it or completely confused. host: i guess the question is, is what we're seeing now project 2025 in action? guest: well, it's common sense. there's a lot of commonality in the sense that what we put

forward, were a lot of trump ideas from trump one. i think what you're saying is aspirational as well. i served in term one, things that i hoped could have been done, but we didn't quite have the political will to do it yet. we had a democratic congress at the latter half there, the house. these were ideas in the main that have percolated through the conservative movement, and really center right for decades. host: remind people what was in project 2025. was it a department of government efficiency, was that in project 2025? guest: the whole thing was about efficiency. there wasn't the department, but the idea with project 2025 was that the conservatives had to be ready to help the next president govern. particularly independent streak that we all have in us, the conservatives have never come together as a group. and it was really important that

we put aside the petty differences and support the next president. so what we did with project 2025 was the first of its kind, looking at our friends on the left, looking how they always get ready, and saying to the entire country, be ready, be prepared. you know, to the extent that there's a reflection of project 2025 in what's being done by president trump now, it's that his team is ready to roll. they really want to be prepared to hit the ground. host: what do you think the reputation of project 2025 was by the end of the 2024 election? guest: you know, i think the ideas of project 2025, and what you see now are extremely popular. what the democrats have done was probably one of the great electoral failures of all time. she put $ed 300 million reportedly into castigating project 2025 and really a two-part misinformation play, one that didn't have anything to

do with president trump, and two, that many of these, the so-called ideas were reflected in project 2025. at the end of the day, it showed great contempt for their own base, and it ultimately, it's the lap of unintended consequences -- it's the law of unintended consequences. what you're seeing now is project 2025 on a whole other plane, another order of magnitude. host: during the election, candidate trump felt the need to respond to his connection to project 2025. this is about 30 seconds during a campaign stop in july. >> like some on the right, severe right, came up with this project 2025, and i don't even know. i mean, some of them i know who they are, but they're very, very conservative, just like you have opposite of the radical left, ok? you have the radical left, and then you have the radical right, and they come up with this project. i don't know what the hell it is. it's project 2025.

he's involved in project -- and then they read some of the things, and they are extreme. i mean, they're seriously extreme. but i don't know anything about it. i don't want to know anything about it. host: extreme, came up by the radical right, i don't know anything about it. what was your estimation of those comments? guest: there's no more person on earth that's been more attacked by fake news than president trump. he has much leeway. he is a genius in politics, and what he said there is sort of -- he didn't have anything to do with this. you know, the left, though, had taken a lot of that to misframe project 2025. at base, i think he's also made statements subsequent to that that say many of the ideas are very good. you know, some of the bad ideas actually are not even in project 2025. they were completely grafted on. for example, the i.v.f. contingent. there's not a word about i.v.f., but the democrats and their allies spent millions of dollars

trying to say project 2025 was going to stop i.v.f. fake news. host: was shutting down or folding in usaid into the state department, was that, did that come out of project 2025? guest: well, project 2025 does a very good treatment on usaid and really going at the heart of how this operation has been running counter to u.s. foreign interests for decades now. it's a sieve for unaccountable money. what i think they've done is really take it to another level. it certainly flagged the issue and talked about bringing it under the ages of the state department. host: there's going to be a vote today on linda mcmahon for education secretary, to move her nomination out of committee to the full senate. but a lot of discussion in her nomination hearing about reduction to the department of education, democrats concerned about shutting down the department of education.

what does project 2025 say about the department of education? guest: secretary soon to be, i hope, secretary mcmahon, is one of the dynamic figures of modern life. she's extremely accomplished business woman and former cabinet secretary. i fully commend what she's going to do. you know, the department of education, the heritage foundation put out the mandate for leadership in 1980 for president reagan, and at that stage, four years into it, the book was already calling for the abolition of the department. host: what's the book? guest: it was the mandate for leadership circa1980. this was published by the heritage foundation, the original mandate for leadership. fast forward hoe years later, we're making the same appeal. look, i went to public schools, k-12. i went on to m.i.t. undergrad and graduate degrees at m.i.t. and the university of virginia.

my mom was a public schoolteacher. you're not going to find someone who more leaves in the public school system. but i really feel it's i believe it's broken. i have four kids and we are having to homeschool two of them, this great system that i wouldn't be where i am today were it not for the public schoolteachers, i saw so much dedication from my mother doing this work. the system is not working. it needs to be put back in the control of states and localities. and the federal mandate needs to relax and be much more accountable to the parents. host: what is your role today? do you have a role in the second trump administration? guest: i am very supportive of the work they are doing. i am outside. every day we wake up it's christmas morning. i'm down in south carolina. i'm a proud citizen of south carolina. i'm happy to say that there is a great buoyancy among -- i think

regular everyday americans that president trump is delivering on the promises. only trump administration is is an identify conclass, and when he gets into this tag team duo with elon musk cutting through in a way that the deep state never saw i think it's just exciting. and every day brings a new revelation. host: would you like to go back into the administration if offered? would you go back in? guest: always my honor to serve president trump and the administration. host: what did you do in the first term? guest: i first started at h.u.d. i had been a long-time trump supporter. i worked on the campaign. i was a new york attorney. so i hadn't known washington and how to navigate it. host: what's a white shoe law firm? guest: the guys who bill $2,000 an hour. many are now suing the trump administration. but they are essentially high-end corporate firms. they work for a lot of corporate america defending them going

through regulations. there is a big mass of them here on k street. that's not to say these -- these are some of the most talented lawyers, but they are expensive. and that's why i grew up in new york. you come out of law school, you have a tremendous debt, you don't have a choice. didn't come from means myself. i basically followed that trajectory. that said, it took me two years to get into the trump administration. and i started at h.u.d. in the community planning and development under dr. carson, which was an honor to serve. i got a quick taste of bureaucracy and the stifling of dr. carson and president trump's homelessness initiatives. then i moved on to the office of personnel management. where i was white house liaison, then chief of staff. host: westheading o.p.m.? guest: o.m.b. host: explain who russ is and did you work with him?

guest: yes, russ is one of the most talented men in the movement. he was formerly director of m.b. at the end of trump one. and now has been confirmed to be director again. host: we should explain. office of management and budget. guest: that's an office that works out of the office of the executive -- executive office of the president. they are charged essentially as putting a break on the agencies, and governing them with respect to their finances and the money flow. russ comes from an entire background on the hill. then later on at heritage. and really has one of the few all encompassing views. i'm very excited about the work he's going to do. he has invade himself against the deep state and i think that for a number of us this really is a central mission in our life. to return government to the people. to let us have a handle on this

monolithic government. host: paul danes with us taking your phone call. it is phone lines as usual. democrats, 202-748-8000. republicans, 202-748-8001. inddents, 202-748-8002 -- independents, 202-748-8002. plenty of calls for you already. jack is up first out of massachusetts. republican line. you are on with paul dans -- danes. host: what's your question or comment, jack? caller: i was wondering how -- host: how it would impact what? caller: new england. i'm in the northeastern region. host: how does project 2025 -- guest: it's all president trump and his team right now. i think -- my family actually -- my tomorrow was the youngest of eight. no -- workers from rhode island.

i'm a quincy, mass native. born there. i went to m.i.t. part of why i got involved in this is seeing the deg dre gaition -- degradation of american industry. few areas have felt it as rough as new england. my uncles all went off and fought the star in world war ii and came back, worked sikorski, only to see their shipyards blows down. their livelihoods taken. when president trump talks about rebuilding america, that's all of america. i really think new england is going to be well poised to really get some of the benefit here. it's going to be going back to work and being proud to be american. i really think that there is so much things to offer in the northeast. particularly with the seat of education being up there. really a great working class of americans that helped build this

country will be called upon to help rebuild. host: amelia, democrat, good morning. caller: yes, good morning. just wanted to make an observation. during the campaign president trump said he had nothing to do or knew anything about the project 2025. but to show you house misleading and deceptive he is. and the one thing that this project is set out to do is disassemble the regulatory state. this is the state that gave life to the middle class. and people don't do their research. i heard this morning several people call and mention critical thinking skills. they are planning to destroy, they are taking away your medicare, social security, because they want to privatize everything. they have what's fighting against each other. the plan is for the rich people to take over this country. people, please wake up.

stay out of fox news. and just try to do research and other resources because when the congress go next week and they try to take the money, $2 trillion come out of our entitlement programs. our social security, our medicare, and this is what they want to destroy. one final mention, elon musk is nothing but a crook. this man -- he didn't start tesla, two engineers started tesla, he invested some money and turned around and fired the two guys. this man ain't nothing but deception. host: that's amelia in georgia. paul danes. guest: respectfully to the caller she's right that the federal government and really the united states brought the middle class. i'm a beneficiary of that come interesting working class stock. but what's happened here is really a perversion of the federal government over the last 50 years.

really longer over the progressive era. we have $50 trillion going on approaching in a national debt and a $2 trillion structural deficit. that cost is paid by the middle class. and then when you have a biden regime that's basically opened the borders and flooded it, that's why the middle class is stagnating. you bring in people, you put them on the dole, and at the same time you are charging the interest to the americans. this is why you're 30 -- your 30-something can't afford a house. people are seeing these astronomical costs. not only in fuel but car insurance and the like. this is the freight that's being paid. why is it? because no one's ever checked this thing. that's not fair. you know who checked it was clinton-gore, 40 years ago a guy named al gore was sitting in the seat like myself talking about a

national partnership to reinvent government, to make it more efficient. these are not republican ideas, they are not democrat ideas. they are american ideas. and everything over time needs to be reformed and rebuilt. that's really what i think somebody like elon musk, who is a genius of our age. he's an edison-like figure. he may not have invented it but he took it to the level. he realized he's the producer. that's the sort of leader that really from private industry can really show dynamic change. he makes the pie bigger for all of us. host: the national debt acourting to u.s. debt clocks, $36.5 trillion. some projections say that $50 trillion figure not too far in the too distant fuhr. to the caller's other point. back to project 2025, did it call for privatizing social security and medicare? guest: funny thing about being the former director, i get quizzed on 900 pages of the

book. the thing is, project 2025 didn't even address social security. there isn't even a chapter about it. all the project 2025 wants to do is about social security, the essence of fake news. really, at this point look at trump 47 agenda, and president trump, but certainly the revelations coming out of -- read a couple days ago about potentially trillions of dollars being sent overseas or to dead people. it's going to be very interesting to see where this money trail goes. host: do you think that elon musk can find $2 trillion in savings in the federal government? guest: the president's confident he'll find $1 trillion. look, if you just do the math on something, $7 trillion finding $1 trillion is about 15%. who in our own household budgets konlts trim off 15%. i know i probably could if i sat

down and did it. what they are doing here is also bringing in the next advent, which is artificial intelligence i believe to some degree. but he can control this entire system and reducing it to answers within minutes. that's a computing power that was never really able to realize. i think the growth of this behemoth government took advantage of it. no one could really ever track the money. no one could ever see who it ultimately went to or how it was spent. now that information is capable of being assembled within minutes. i think that that is one of the great promises of this age. host: fort lauderdale, florida, this is mark, independent. good morning. caller: hello, good morning. thank you for c-span. i'm just an average small out in the world. i probably will not be all that eloquent. nearly as eloquent as your guest considering this is his business

talking. but the fact of the matter is, he's an outright liar. you asked him several times about project 2025. you played a clip about trump saying he doesn't know a single thing about 2025. and here we are in the midst of project 2025 starting to run our country. everything they have been doing since trump came in is project 2025. when asked about the reasons for the start of 2025, he said, it's because democrats do the -- dems do the same thing and we didn't want to be left behind. you guys have been well educated, obviously, he spent a lot of time talking and expressing his viewpoints, obviously. but the fact of the matter is he's so much like the rest of the conservative movement. he said he's not a republican, let's say conservative. they now, thanks to trump, they have been liberated to lie whenever it suits their needs, whenever it suits their purposes. and -- host: mark, let me give paul

danes a chance to respond. guest: respectfully to the caller. i don't consider myself a liar at all. but the essence is that project 2025 was created outside of president trump. certainly it became a big thing and it was projected into the media. so for example, the book was downloaded 15 million times, maybe more. these ideas entered the bloodstream. many of which were president trump's to start with. it's really hard to decipherer what is project 2025, what's president trump. the only thing that's relevant now is president trump. with respect to -- host: do you think it's relevant so many of the people who wrote various chapters of project 2025 have gone into the second trump administration? you're not there, but we talked about russ vaught, others. guest: it's actually--when we stood up project 2025, we went

to some of the most talented people in trump term one. these were all volunteers. these are real patriots who took time away from their families on weekends to sit down and record what they would like to see four years from now. i don't find it strange at all that president trump would turn around and ask back a number of these folks. but that's to say that conservatives are greatly outnumbered when it comes to governance. here in washington you have to understand, the federal government votes 95% democrat. the bureaucracy. there is 2.2 million federal workers. the president appoints 4,000. that's one to 500. of those one, many of those folks didn't even get into the position the last time. project 2025 was really about nurturing people to come in and take that one to 500 spot. when they hit -- when they got the spot they would know what to

do. host: you are saying the 499 are liberals? democrats? guest: no. i think that you see particularly here in washington where the mass of the federal government is that the voting tallies run upwards of 90% to 95% for democrat candidate for president. you see donations from usaid ordering on 90% to 99% for one side. whether or not the people themselves -- there are varying are statistics. i think over time the federal government has become much more to the left in terms of its workforce. that's the function of america demographically in terms of cosmopolitan living in the cities versus the red. we all see the map of red versus blue. just for correction of the record, i am a republican. by all means. conservative as well, but i think that i would like to put

myself in that category of kind of pragmatist, common sense trumpian if you will. i think that's -- i wouldn't have been in politics if it weren't for president trump. low pressure lancaster, ohio, jenny, republican. good morning. caller: good morning. i had a question about medicaid. i wanted to say this. i know the constitution. i forgot a lot so i spent time relearning it. you are not going to underis stand the laws if you don't know the constitution. and i think if people would know the constitution they would relax and know what's going on. what is going on is really good. they are cutting costs. host: jenny, what in the constitution brings you comfort? caller: well, if you understand the amendments and if you understand -- you are not going

to understand the laws if you don't understand the constitution. everything is based on the constitution. host: paul danes. guest: i commend the caller. precisely. the constitution is what has given us this freedom and liberty. we are going now on 250-year birthday in a couple years. it's time for a constitutional attic cleaning which is essentially what president trump's undertaken. we have three branches of government. the legislative, the executive, and the judicial. but over the last 100 years a fourth unelectable, unelected unexabl branch called the administrative state has grown up. it's really important as the caller points out you understand president trump works in article 2 of the executive branch. but the vesting of the power in article 2, section 1, clause 1, is purely in a president. that is the executive power of the united states is vested in a president, period.

what's happening now is really a constitutional reanchorring back to these reseptember that have en-- resepts -- reseptembers. host: in the early days of the trump administration democratic members of congress will say donald trump is trying to usurp their powers under article 1 controlling the pursestrings with some his decisions, his efforts to claw back money congress has appropriated for various projects. impound money. congress controls the pursestrings and president trump is trying to say where the money should go. guest: here president trump's in charge of executing the law and fulfilling what congress has ordered. the flip side to that is you see here with the stacey abrams news and the e.p.a. essentially a wholesale-doirnt know, almost shifting --down, i don't know almost shifting of the money outside of government $20 billion. this is one instance.

it's very important we reframe the political powers. over time congress, what we call unduly delegated its authority to this administrative state. they have not made regulations and they have not enforced that taking away bad regulations. that growth has stalled the economy. president trump as commander in chief, as chief executive officer, and as the chief legal officer, that is the magistrate of the united states, he is in charge of the executive branch. so this high dethat post watergate there could be checks and balances from within the executive branch, that is an independent d.o.j. is a fallacious one. i think that's one of the key things that president trump is reforming the executive branch. host: is this a story you are referring to. the "new york post" headline, there are others. e.p.a. administrator discovers

$2 blg stashed away by biden administration for stacey abrams' linked climate groups. guest: it's extraordinary. apparently it's up to $20 billion. 10 groups or so. that the money was -- they saw president trump coming. and six months ago there was a lot of what they call trump proofing of the government. i did a hustle the moany out the door and keep democrat nest feathered for the next four years. the level i don't think anybody could really contemplate. the facts really come to -- this is $2 billion being given to an organization that never received more than $100. it's extraordinary to just think, yeah, touchdown billion is a drip in the bucket. i heard a caller earlier this morning saying that. $1,000 billion is a trillion, and that's where we start. but certainly when you go at these kind of wholesale -- i don't want to use the term

theft, that's what it's appearing to be. we have to look and find this all over the united states government. i believe it exists. host: belcher, kentucky, next. tommy, line for democrats. good morning. caller: good morning. glad to talk to you again. the thing i look at is common sense. i'm not college educated or nothing like that, but do i have common sense. a man like trump goes up there and lies about everything in the world. and project 25, they want to reach to get it all. and the people -- i worked all my life. i went in the military. i done everything they said at the time. and i was born in 1948. and at the time i grew up i done everything that they told me i needed to do. that when i got old i could relax and get my social security. from mr. roosevelt.

hoover about killed us. people don't think back on that stuff. they don't think back about donald trump telling all these lies. he wasn't connected with them. he didn't know them. he lied. he lied about paying the porn star. he's a born liar. and project 25 all they do is sit back and look as smug as he can be at his little education. host: paul danes, a chance to respond. guest: i commend the caller for his life of work. he's the sort of really built this country. i came from the same sort of folks. i aspire to be that same person. the caller should understand that a lot of the promise his fuhr was robbed from him by inflation. and inflation is driven by excessive government spending. that is the liberal party, the democrats, you spent $300

billion in ukraine and we don't know the national interest that is. someone has to pay for t who pays for it? it's when this caller goes to the gas pump. when he goes to the pharmacy and has to pay for his prescription drugs. all these costs end up somewhere. they get balanced on your back, sir. when this money starts being spent properly and much more efficiently you are going to get the future you have always been promised. as far as president trump, no. i do not believe he's a liar one bit. i feel that he's been the sole victim of the greatest misinformation campaign. from the second he came down the escalator to today. project 2025 is a thing of the past. right now what president trump and his team are doing, it's extraordinary. host: project 2025 is a thing of the past?

guest: it was -- there are elements of it. i should say again i work at the heritage foundation. but the worker was in the main completed. i believe it's a resource that's the public can always look at. but right now the most important thing is what president trump and his team are doing. they are taking things i never could have dreamed. my folks used to do quotes around the house. my mom was -- what you call -- needle point, knitting. i remember this long fellow needle point she had up. said give what you have. it may be better than you dare to think. that's essentially how i think of project 2025. we brought into the bloodstream that change was needed. that we are -- it's either us or the administrative state. i say us, the people, and what

president trump and his team are doing is something really beyond the contemplation of even a loft us that we dare to dream. host: the federal workforce as of 2024 was a little over two million federal workers, correct? guest: maybe 2.2. host: what do you think is the ideal number for the federal workforce? guest: it's also the federal contracting force is about 15 million. so there is a huge number about that. and that's nonmilitary with 2.2. when we would talk about project 2025, i actually part of my stump speech was turning to elon musk for inspiration and what he had done at x and twitter. i said we don't intend to cut 80% because that's reportedly what he was able to do and it hums along. the reality though is there is a will the of redundancy. i don't know the percentage and

they are discovering t any time any organization hasn't gone through essentially house cleaning in 40 years, you are going to find enormous inefficiencies. host: why wasn't that house cleaning done in the first administration? guest: hit him on the back with the bogus russia, russia, russia hoax and had him on his back feet. this whole weaponization of government is the deep state. when i came on here i guess 18 months ago a caller was like, there is no deep state. blah, blah. what's happened in the last 18 months, "the new york times" came out and said, yes, there is a deep state. and it's a good thing. and now we are like talking every day about draining the swamp. the deep state. the deep state is the group that constructs this russia, russia, russia hoax. the deep state is the one that trots out the vaccine jab and the lockdown.

people -- the j6 sigh on. a lot -- syop. a lot of that people are taking a massive red bill with trump. i think -- know this on the ground from my own experience, people who are center left went through covid and just really reassessed what the role of government is in their life. and really saw some over time some really disturbing decisions by the federal government. i think we are at a great age here for reform. i encourage liberals to basically join hands. the thing that's boxed in a lot of the left is that everybody wants things more efficient. tell me why you wouldn't want to save $2 billion. even if it's $2 billion. what trump is doing is very, very popular. i think the left in terms of the fake news about project 2025,

that's over. you lost. and you lost bigly on that. now is probably the time for them to almost kind of look at critically and start cutting themselves. and you see that with gavin newsom. he reportedly kept a copy, highlighted copy of the book on his desk. and he's actually appropriating the ideas. these ideas were not meant for republican president. they were meant for any president. we thought there would be more recepivity with the conservative. a lot of those ideas in the main are common sense. host: five minutes left with paul danes this morning taking your phone calls. this is clara, wayne city, illinois, republican. good morning. caller: it's carla. host: sorry about that. caller: i have didn't hear nothing about project 2025 until it come out two months before trump administration was elected. i was wondering how come nobody's ever addressed the

federal prison system. and how much we spend. we spend almost $43 billion on our federal prison system. it's 33,500 per person in prison. to keep for a year. that means it's $120 a day. and i don't know why nothing's been addressed about that. that's a lot of money to go into the prison system, states and federal. guest: caller is exactly right. that's something i hope the admin -- believe they will get to. president trump was a great advocate of criminal justice reform. and the prison system like aspects of the administrative state has been, it really does need a top-down assessment, and

i think that is coming. especially in the wake of what happened to the j six hostages, if you will. these were abominable conditions, these were against really the rights of man in the magna carta being held without charge, without trial for years in solitary confinement. i think a lot of those outrageous will give rise to reforming the federal prison system. host: in a few minutes we are going to head to cpac taking place here in d.c. guests are gathering there, c-span coverage beginning. showing you some of the speaker this morning and also this afternoon, until that begins. this conversation with paul dan's. section five of project 2025, independent regulatory agencies for different chapters about that. you can see it on your screen.

then i want to show this headline from the washington times today, donald trump seeks to exert control over independent agencies. we are talking ftc, sec, fcc. what is an independent agency? guest: that is really good question. i think it is a fiction is what it is. it's unconstitutional at base, but it is an outgrowth of the progressive era. the idea with the progressive era was that a few elites, elite experts would organize life for the rest of us, and independent agencies were essentially usurpation of the president's executive power investing in a new group that would essentially be less accountable to political control. so i think where you see that, some of them certainly have existed well and have performed much more ably than others, but

overall the notion needs to be challenged and that is what i believe the administration is going host: able independent agency? guest: things like the cfpb are just complete -- host: consumer financial protection board. guest: that has basically been just a leftist grab bag, stealing basically regulatory powers from other areas of government, the treasury department, commerce and investing them into an unaccountable agency which exacts major penalties against industry and then folds out that money to their own causes. that is one of the worst offenders. the securities and exchange commission and others, they have a lot more accountability, i believe to the president. there's a spectrum there, to be sure.

host: what is your view of the federal reserve? guest: it has been independent, and that is a major touchstone, that is like a third rail live. the president is correct in saying that ultimately, the secretary of the treasury and the president should be able to guide the economy and the federal reserve to work in tandem with them, not against the president. unfortunately, the last four to 10 years have been very politicized and the federal reserve, making interest rates kind of a function of that and i think that is kind of damaged their credibility. host: this is steve in lexington park, maryland, democrat. good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. i have a very simple question about the government here.

i've been around for 71 years. i can remember president eisenhower. my question for this person is wire you supporting a criminal, a felon? he is a disgrace to the presidency, why are you supporting a criminal for president? thank you. host: we will give you the final 60 seconds. guest: donald trump is really one of the great dynamic leaders in american history. i think that you seen somebody who took private sector expertise, but always caring about the little guy. the other half of my family grew up in a commodified city. we built that town, did a lot of the dirty jobs, and it wasn't until somebody like trump came along who pulled that city out of this malaise in the late 70's and really made new yorkers begin to believe again.

what he did in four months for something that municipal government couldn't do in 10 years. so you see somebody who just has this perception to cut to the core. but the felon stuff is so erroneous. that was one of the great stains on our judicial history and i think that is going to be coming out more and more. as far as the tagline, i implore the left to really look at the caliber of this man. somebody who gets up off the mat and says fight, fight, fight. that is what made america great, that is going to make america great again. host: we are going to have to ended there today. appreciate your time. we are back here tomorrow morning 7:00 a.m. eastern, 4:00 a.m. pacific. we now take you over to cpac where live coverage begins here on c-span.

>> a live look now at the annual conservative political action conference being held near the nation's capital. in just a moment vice president jd vance will sit down for an interview with conservative commentator and host of the conference mercedes flap. you are watching live coverage of cpac here on c-span. and you are looking at a live

picture of the 2025 conservative political action conference being held at national harbor, maryland, just outside the nation's capital. we are waiting for someone to come up on stage. later this afternoon we expect to hear from house speaker mike johnson, attorney general pam bondi and former trump administration advisor steve bannon. during this event, multiple republican lawmakers and conservative advocates are scheduled to deliver remarks. you can watch our live coverage of cpac here on c-span, on the free mobile app, c-span now, for

our website, www.c-span.org. host: becky pringle the president of the national association, one of the largest labor unions representing teachers, those in the education field. in about two hours, the senate health education and labor committee is going to hold a vote on whether to advance linda mcmahon's nomination to be education secretary. if you were voting how would you vote? guest: i would vote no. host: why? guest: i actually had the opportunity to be in the hearing and i wanted to go so i could listen to her answers, and she did nothing to assure teachers and educators who work in our schools every day that she was going to protect them from the cuts that the trump administration is proposing. that she would do nothing to protect those vulnerable students in our schools, students with disabilities. 95% up and go to public schools. that she would do nothing to protect civil rights.

all of those specific jobs that the federal government and education plays. so i would say to you that it left a chilling effect on educators all around this country, scrambling about what they could and could not teach and whether the school would lose funding because they were teaching it. thinking about how they would have to stand in even more gaps to make up for gaps that already exist for our kids. so i left the hearing not having confidence that she was qualified for the job, saying that she was going to take care of our most vulnerable kids. host: we talk about the cuts that donald trump wants to make in this area, give the viewers a sense of some of the hearing that you attended, linda mcmahon answering some questions on that front. >> president trump is reportedly

drafting an executive order requiring the secretary of education to develop a plan for downsizing the department of education and working with congress to eliminate entirely. yes or no, do you agree that since department was created by congress, it would need an act of congress to actually close the department of education? >> president trump understand that we will be working with congress. would like to do this right, we would like to make sure that we are presenting a plan but i think our senators could get on board with and our congress could get on board with that would have a better functioning department of education, but certainly does require congressional action. >> and in terms of the plans to downsize, what would be the components of that plan that would not require congressional approval? >> i do believe that there are

department of education established by statute. in those particular departments we would have to pay particular attention to. but long before there is a department of education, we fulfilled the programs of our educational system. there were other areas, other agencies that were part of the department of education that could better serve our students and our parents on a local level, and i am really all for the president's mission which is to return education to the states. i believe as he does that the best education is closest to the child and not -- >> if the department is downsized, with the states and localities still receive the federal funding which they currently receive? >> yes. is not the president's goal to defund the programs, only to have it operate more efficiently. >> play out what you think would happen if the department of education is downsized in the ways they were discussing. guest: d know that every level

of government has responsibility in the education of our students. the federal government, state and localities as far as school boards. all of them play a role. if the u.s. department of education was downsized, we know that there are vital services that our students wouldn't get. i was talking to a parent from virginia, actually, who was concerned because they depend on the services that the department of education provides for student with special needs. and we know that the federal government actually, the funding from the federal government supplies over 420,000 jobs, almost half a million jobs. so we know that if those jobs are not there, class sizes are going to balloon. we know that that one-on-one attention will not be there, and it will affect our most vulnerable students, those who are living in poverty, those who have disabilities. >> in terms of what the department of education does, is

the department of education getting to tell individual school districts what they should and shouldn't teach? guest: they don't. that is left up to the school districts who together with parents, parents are involved, educators are involved, some of the school districts of course involve students, too, in making those determinations themselves. the federal government's role which was established really at the end of the civil rights legislation of the late 60's so that it would play that child of ensuring that every student has access and opportunity. you heard linda mcmahon talking about going back to a time when our students with disabilities didn't have access. there was a time when we didn't provide those additional resources so they can learn with their classmates in class. we don't want to go back to that.