m the new by. >> i want to thank these guys, too, "the young turks." they're all right. this is what is up next. viewpoint with eliot with eliot spitzer right here and check that show out. >> good evening, i'm eliot spitzer. to current's new show viewpoint. as john adam said, facts are stubborn things. every night we'll search for them to form our own opinions and those of our guests and you the audience. tonight we start with a saga of trayvon martin, a case that has become a more mirror in our society. the shooting hase has evolved around

the idea that trayvon martin was the aggressor. zimmerman claimed that martin broke his nose and slammed his head into the concrete sidewalk. but video apparently unharmed brought this description of events into question. despite the seemingly contradictory video his brother stuck with his brother's version of the story. >> we're confident that the medical records will explain how he was treated and how he was not. to me his nose looks swollen. i'm his brother. >> another eyewitness has come forward. his description is telling. >> two men on the grass, one on top of each other. i couldn't see a lot of movement. it was very dark, but i felt like there were scuffling. then i heard the gunshot. which to me were like pops. i can't say i didn't watch them

get up, but maybe only within like a couple of seconds or so. then he was walking towards where i was watching. i could see him clearer and see that he was the hispanic man, and he didn't appear hurt or anything else. >> while the actual event of the night of the shooting are still in question, what is not in question is george zimmerman's past, which include endless calls to 911, the arrest for fighting with police, a restraining order from his fiancé. and according to "the new york daily news" his participation in the neighborhood watch was not his first experience of stepping over the lanes in zimmerman provided security for illegal house patriots until he had to be let go for quote being too aggressive. i quote, it was like jekyll & hyde when the dude snapped he snapped. joining me now from tallahassee florida, is adam weinstein who

has been covering the story. thank you for your time tonight adam. >> thank you eliott. so the question of course, the pivotal actually startprovoked this fight? was it zimmerman going after martin or was it martin going after zimmerman. and what seems to be the prevailing view and what is the most powerful evidence one way or the other? >> eliott, there is still a heck of a lot out there. i'm hearing a lot of people citing one way or another. for the most part people tend to feel that there really is a sense that trayvon was victimized one way or another. he didn't bring this fight on himself. whether it's the fact that zimmerman left his car. the other thing that was unsaid in all of this defense of george zimmerman. we heard from his father and his brother, but one thing that

makes me curious. i'm a concealed weapons holder in the state of florida. the law is you have to keep it conceal. if there is a struggle over that weapon, how it become obvious or evident. if as he said trayvon was going for his gun. we're anxious to hear his answer to that. >> the new piece of evidence is the brothers claim that the medical records will some how substantiate zimmerman's assertion that he had his head slammed into the concrete, the broken nose. i don't know if you know the answer of this why doesn't zimmerman seek to have those medical records released. why doesn't he just say give them to the public. it will substantiate my view. he hasn't done that yet, has he? >> no, he hasn't. all along representatives of his family, his attorneys and also those family members who have come forward spoken have said

we're not trying this case in the press. we're waiting to see what law enforcement, what the state attorney's office wants to do. i think there is a sense they want to keep a semblance of his privacy for as long as possible until the facts are known to everyone and we know what is going to be the disposition of this case, whether there are going to be criminal charge or not. i think you'll see those records pretty quickly. >> if charges are pressed they would be part of the evidencery foundation if there is a grand jury or non-grand jury evidence of the case. they say they're not trying this in the press. i have great respect for that. but facts is what we want. the medical record should be dispositive of the broken nose and the claim of martin he was on the phone with his girlfriend during the initiation of this would go a long way towards supporting his view that he wasn't initiating the fight. has there been any effort to determine whether or not those

phone record could be obtained or whether the girlfriend has been interviewed? >> the last that i heard she has not yet been interviewed, but she is on the state attorney's office is planning to interview her, and make all of the discovery related to that part of the is something that has been questioned and is paramount in our minds in the last couple of days. frankly all of these leafs that we've seen that seems to be favorable to george zimmerman's case have all kind of hit against that testimony of that girl. we only know her as dee dee right now. she said she could hear pretty much all the way up to the beginning of the confrontation. with george zimmerman's injuries we might find that he did have a bloody nose and some scrapes. the question is whether or not there was a struggle. the questions is whether that fulfills his self defense argument--it doesn't prove one way or another whether he brought it on himself or not.

>> as you potently put it, there was a scuffle. according to the new witness whose brief sound byte we heard just moments ago there was a scuffle, and for what purpose. when it comes to that, the conversation with the girlfriend seems to be important. if he was on the phone with his girlfriend, it seems less certainly, that he began a fight with zimmerman at the same moment and then getting those phone records to see if at that pre-moment there is that phone call, that would be important. coming back to zimmerman's past what do you make of him being released as a security guard. does this fit into the pattern of the 911 calls and aggressive participation in the neighborhood watch association? >> well, it's potentially very damaging to his reputation or to the construction of george zimmerman as just another cool guy as we've heard from his father and from his brother. but the question is how really reliable this account is.

new york daily news had it single sourced. we're trying to pursue it and find more news about the case. this guy was calling police about piles of trash in the road next to a kohl's department store. he was talking potholes and black males who were walking around his neighborhood who were unknown to him. so he clearly had a predilection for overreacting to the source of things that we would just accept in passing. this might be much more dramatic manifestation of that. >> look, adam, you're clearly right about such an important point. the fact that all this other evidence points to reaction, and points to poor judgment. it is not sufficient in any court of law to convict somebody of murder. what was the provocation, if any. what was his involvement. your observation that you're required to keep your gun concealed. i've never heard that before. you're a concealed gun holder,

have you ever been in a position where you pulled it out? >> i have not. i tend not to walk around armed for most of the time any way. when you work at the state capitol or any other public building or state university, so far that's a laws that not been changed in floor. florida. however, my father is a holder. he has been in similar situations, and the rule has been up until 2005 you use restraint. that weapon does not come out, you don't no brandish to make a point, you only come out we know you use it for deadly force. that is the next question, when did it come out. another guideline in the state of florida this weapon does not entitle you to be a freelance policeman. to what extent did that go through george zimmerman's mine when he was out on the hunt. >> thanks, many, many open questions here.

as i said a moment ago this case is a mirror about issues that we think about every day in our society. thank you for chatting with. >> for more let's bring in the president of the seminole county naacp turner clayton. thank you for joining us. >> youthank you. >> you are a resident of the community. the rest of the nation has been jumping in and drawing conclusions about locallents. it's nice to have someone who lives in the community to talk to us. is this event being misunderstood by the rest of the nation as some sort of test of a community? is your commune one community why the police and the minority get along well. >> no, there seems to be a lot of problems with the police department and the community. they're very much--mainly because of the way they've held previous cases involving victims of loved ones.

>> so what you're saying is you're not surprised, if i read into your statement inappropriate delay in the way the investigation has been handled, and perhaps inadequacy in their pursuing with efficient aggressiveness. >> yes, this particular case, i feel that they did not properly conduct investigation in this case. there was a lot of evidence they should have collected at the scene. the scene was properly processed and of course they did not collect the clothing from mr. zimmerman, which was also part of the evidence. they did not swab his evidence which is also protocol in the case of a homicide. there are a lot of things that this department did not do that they should have done that was not followed. in fact, they even had the homicide investigator talk to some of the witnesses on the scene. it was an agent who talked with them, who made the initial contact, and that is not

protocol either. >> you're talking about a more systemic set of issues here. does that inadequacy relate to how they handle cases only from your perspective only in the african-american community as opposed to cases where the victim might have been white. or is this just a general failure to follow good policing habits across the board? >> well, i think it's across the board. but it's more prevalent in case where is minorities are involved. there are several cases in the past. there was a case that just occurred in october of 2011 where a young man was actually shot and killed, and the shooter turned himself in but because the way the police department investigated that particular crime the shooter wound up walking on the treat because the state attorney did not have sufficient evidence to hold this person. >> now there has been a fair bit of talk about protests being scheduled. do you think these sorts of public demonstrations of

dissatisfaction, the way this session investigation have been done assist those to take a deeper look to what is going on. >> yes that's why a special prosecutor has been appointed to take it over. we do know there is no faith in the state attorney's office as well because and the police department usually work together on these types of cases and then they decide whether they'll prosecute the case and a lot of times they throw out casings that should be prosecuted. >> i'm asking you to draw a legal conclusion so fell free to say you don't know enough. do you think there should be a criminal case brought against zimmerman with everything you've seen and heard and believe to be the case. >> yes, i do. there is too much probable cause to ignore. that's what the sanford police department have been doing ignoring the probable cause. even though they have the 911

tapes where the particular question of zimmerman, are you following this young man. he said yes. they told him we don't need you to do that. but he was being the aggressor. he was following mr. martin. this stand your law ground does in the apply. it only applies when you're defending yourself or someone else who is in danger. of course, mr. zimmerman was not in danger, so the law does not apply to him. it simply states that you cannot be the aggressor in the case. >> you made a good summation there. who knows what the outcome would be, but thank you joining us. that's the president of seminole county, president of naacp turner clayton. thank you. >> thank you eliott. >> now is there any right answer for the obama administration? james trowd will join me to

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the newest voice in cable news is on the new news network. >>jennifer granholm joins current tv. this former two term governor is politically direct. óx it takes people with real knowledge to build and maintain a race car. polymers, hydo-carbons, thermal plastics, math and science? you bet it is. many kids don't understand how important these subjects can be that's why time warner cable developed connect a million minds. to introduce kids in our communities to the opportunities that inspire them to develop these important skills. how can my car go faster? maybe your child will figure it out. connectamillionminds.com >> the quagmire in syria. what we know is the problem and it's one we've seen before. a brutal ruler is facing a civilian revolution against his regime and is doing everything

within his unchecked power including killing unarmed civilians to maintain his grip on the nation. what we don't know is the solution. should the united states use it's military force to intervene as we did in libya or should we allow it to play itself out like we did in egypt or perhaps there is no efficient answer at all her here to.here to join me is james trowd. why is syria different. why does it matter more. >> well, syria matters more than libya did because syria is located next to turkey on the one side, jordan, lebanon and so forth. it's also been an instrument for the extension of iran's power in the world. so syria also, of course, has an

extremely complicated relationship to israel. so the syrians are connected to the larger middle east in the way that libya well was not. syria matters much more than libya does. >> does that explain why in this quagmire you got a very interesting and problematic role being played by china and russia whereas in libya they permitted us to go forward. >> i would say for the russians. the russians used to have a big role in the middle east and now it doesn't. syria is its foothold. it's a client for its armament, will youbut also political ally. russia is not going to abandon them. but the chinese are just coming along. iran the syrians cannot do anything without iran's say so.

>> so this then leaves the obama administration in something of a bind. it wants to see assad gone for many legitimate reasons but feels it has no real tools right now. what are it's options and why do they not work. >> everyone is so aware of what does not work in syria that it produced a sense of despair. what will not work is a libya-styled bombing campaign. libya wound up being divided in half and in effect, the good guys, our guys, the rebels, were behind the walls. n.a.t.o. in effect enforced that wall. it meant that those guys, the eastern half of libya could organize over time form a government form a relationship between the government and the militias. we felt there was an an alternate government to support. we knew who they were. syria is not in that situation they're in a patchwork of this city and that city, and there is

no place where the option opposition is. and syria is a fragmented place. there is fear of sectarian war. >> could they subject to overcome some of these problems because it was initially being described as tribal and disorganized but it did come together. is there any prospect that the syrian opposition could go through a similar transformation transformation. >> i argueed in my piece this is a way of saying we're not going to do anything and it's your fault because you have not gotten together. but what i argue is that western states and neighboring states, turkey jordan, dubai and others need to act with them, work with them for example by bringing the various militias together.

we provide communication technology. that will allow hama-- >> the city that have been under seened. to speak. the opposition, they need diplomatic help. they need help to bring them together. >> bringing deputy plow mattic cover for nato to go into libya can they provide that diplomat i can role and provide nato powers to do what they need to do so. >> no. there will not be an endorsement of nato action, there may be something more quiet an tempt to bring those folks together. iraq is now leading the state. they don't want to see the

sunnies take over in syria. iraq is close to assad. but not officially so. we're not going to have that backingbacking from the arab league. >> james traub, thank you for your time. >> thank you eliott. >> pleasure to have you here. is mitt romney shifting his gaze to the real prize ignoring his nomination rivals and calling president obama naive in wisconsin. but the new poll showing obama trouncing romney in

>> the house minority leader joins the ranks of marco rubio and george wh bush adding another republican notch to the endorsement belt of mitt romney. five days before wisconsin's primary that state's highest representative paul ryan threw

his luke warm support behind romney. >> so you are throwing your support to-- >> mitt romney. i think we're entering a phase where it could counterproductive if this drags on much longer. that's why we knee need to cohe is cohe will less around romney.. but barack obama trounces romney in double digits. describing what he called christ cramped narrow perception. >> out of work, can't find a job, tough luck.

you're on your own. you don't have healthcare. that's your problem. you're on your own. if you're born into poverty, lift yourself up by your own bootstraps even if you don't have boots. you're on your own. >> clearly the new slogan for the campaign. welcome craig crawford. thank for joining us tonight. >> sure. >> is mitt romney going to trounce the opposition in wisconsin? even if he does, does it matter in that state for november? >> yes, and no, it doesn't matter. this thing is pretty much over, don't you think governor. these endorsements sounded like data from sound track. we must endorse. he is inevitable. i think a lot of republicans realize this is it. romney has warn them all down. he's like the kid in school who did all his home work and keeps raising his hand and the teacher

finally says, okay, okay, you can have it. >> so if it's persistence and not passion and he'll grind it out, get the 1144 votes. he'll getel nominee we see him pivot towards the president in his attacks. but he seems to be something of a crossroads. he's not making the economic argument, because the economic isphobeish, but coming back bit by bit is the economy still the dispositive issue? >> the problem now governor, going ahead if this is wrapped up as it seems to be, and santorum and gingrich are not the big news any more, grabbing headlines and keeping the race alive, look at what romney has to do now. he has to stay interesting for five months until the republican convention. for him that will be kind of difficult. like you say if the economy is not ratcheting up voters like

they thought it would they got to switch to something else. however, i think enough people are hurting in this economy. it would be crazy for the republicans to cave on this point. okay we'll talk about foreign policy. the governor, i think romney does need to push this argument about foreign policy in this way. china. hehe has talked so much about china in this campaign. it's one of the things that he's passionate about. i think he's going to go after this administration for being too weak on china. >> i think he's going to, too. i think you make an interesting point. mitt romney and interesting for five months. it's not possible to make those two things work. but right cave in to china on trade issues, current issues and environmental issues who knows where he takes it, but mitt romney has lost the thematic.

a couple of months ago the republican had a good drum beat going with the economy but he lost it to the theological argument of rick santorum and mitt romney has not regained his style or his arguments since then. am i missing something? >> and the problem is when he does try to do events on the economy his true nature comes back. i watched him during the florida primary. he stood in front of a foreclosed house. they wanted him to talk about the problem of foreclosure. there was a crowd there. the media was there. he started talking about it and then almost veered into, well, now, the bangers are bankers are not bad people. he started defending the bankers in front of a foreclosed house. >> that's an argument that will win a lot of independent voters. he was saying just let everybody be foreclosed. let the market drop to where it has got to go.

it actually is what he believes, given hi background and given his view at moments of tension he tells us the truth. maybe that's what we need, then we'll get a real choice between the two candidates this november. >> when he tries to pretend or shade the truth he's really no good at it. you can always see through it. he reminds me of george bush sr. in that way. just no good at it. we see through it, and then they look phoney. but i do got to come back to this china thing. as you pointed out you connect the dots, that's where foreign policy and economy connects. the president realize it and tried to get on the defense a little bit talking about intellectual property rights but that's not what the average worker is worrying about hollywood copyrights. >> it will be a fascinateing merge of the foreign policy debate and economic debate as this moves forward.

we'll see if mitt romney can get across the finish line and begin to look like a nominee. craig crawford and author of "the politics of life," thank you for joining me. >> you bet. >> you thought the paul ryan was the top >>i'm a political junkie. this show is my fix. [[vo]]this former two-term governor is ...

>> with our continuing in-depth coverage of the g.o.p. coverage in wisconsin. you would think it's the biggest political story going on in the badger state put but it's just the side show to the real political circus. the accountability bothered, the group that manages wisconsin elections voted unanimously

today to certified more than hundred thousand signatures on a petition to recall governor scott walker. this is almost twice as many signatures needed. and according to a poll, only 37% of likely republican voters say they're following the g.o.p. presidential race while 51% say it's the recall that they're more interested in. instead of the g.o.p. candidates being fauned over by politics, it's the candidates themselves who have been doling out the praise and all of it is aimed at scott walker. mitt romney said governor walker is in my opinion is an excellent governor and i believe he has the right to stand up for the citizens of wisconsin. and then this week rick santorum added had he's own support for walker. >> the people of wisconsin they're looking for someone like scott walker who is willing to tell it like it is. you know he's not going to back

down. >> walker may not back down but on june 5th he could be forced down. joining me grams zelinski. thank you for joining us tonight tonight. >> howdy governor, i promise not to drop my "g" like many republicans do. >> that's the least of the problem. let's get right into it. the interesting thing about this recall. you get to vote yes or no. do you want the individual to continue in office but you don't have a head-to-head competition between the person who is there and another candidate put up by another party. this is a bit unusual structurally, am i right about that? >> it has been in our constitution for almost eight decades. nine decades. what happens now the recall has been certified and we have a primary, and then we have a general election on june 5th. we have a lot more work to do, frankly. >> this is like a whole new general election rather than a recall. you mentioned the fact that

you're the communications director, you can't pick or choose or say anything favorable or negative, but there is going to be a primary you pointed out. is that going to fracture the anti-walker vote in any way or is it going to be impossible between the primary in june 5th and get back and have an unified effort on your part. >> i think you're voicing the wish--not you're not but the hopes of scott walker republicans. they've been waiting to fracture since scott walker introduced the budget. after the protests and recalls last summer. they said they would not start the recall itself. it didn't happen. the enthusiasm is here and every day you open the newspaper and some new terrible thing has happened with scott walker whether it's a corruption probe or job loss. we have a history here in wisconsin of open primaries vigorous primaries sending a democrat to victory in the

general aelection. that's what will happen. everyone will unified about what ever candidate emerges because the stakes are so high. >> what seems to be the catalyst, what really was the driving force that got the public most vehemently opposed or a piece of the public opposed to sat walker was a bill he proposed to pass through the state legislator that stripped away some of the organizing rights of state workers. what parts of it were struck down, if you know, and how will that effect the need to recall governor scott walker? >> sure, we learned today that the collection of dues and the mandatory recertification of the unions every year was struck down. but at the heart of it was a power gray grab. this was about weakening the ability for people to organize and collectively bargain. wisconsin is based on collective

values. it created eight-hour workdays and food and protection. when scott walker did that it set off what you saw. that was the original sin. it has since extended to so many other things. what happened today a federal judge ruled that walker's law wasn't just offensive to the values of wisconsin, it was also offensive to the u.s. constitution. >> there seems to be a difference in the public mind. the public seem somewhat thinking to governor walker's understanding or desire to cut back in terms of state spending but disagreed with his taking away certainly what appeared to be inalienable rights. the right to gather and bargain collectively. what is more central to this issue? >> scott walker didn't balance the budget. he gave a $2.6 million tax cut to corporations. we have a bigger deficit now

than before scott walker. so that was nonsense. it's not just workers rights but it's the way he did it. he never talked about doing this in the campaign in 2010. i was with him a lot of times. he never talked once. he never said boo about going at it this way. he lied to the people of wisconsin. one thing people don't like in the state of wisconsin are people who don't talk to them honestly. and so with this recall election we'll have for the first time an honest discussion about the future of wisconsin. one where we're going to decide who will rule corporations from out of state or the people of wisconsin themselves. >> graham zelinski communication director for wisconsin. thank you for joining us

>> a new scientific study shows somememememememememememememememememememememememememe

hd in its nothing new that anti-choice activists often demonstrate outside of abortion clinic sometimes holding gory signs of fetuses. it's permitted by the first amendment. but in one clinic the doctor said protesters took it too far when they showed up at his daughter's first day at middle school. he admits to performing late-term abortions.

he respects rights of anti-abortion activists but after protesters targeted his daughter's school and began calls his home at all hours stave deciding is had to change. he collected the names and numbers of protesters who were calling his home and had friend and family call them back. in a short time the group grew one protester who called stave's home could get as many 5,000 call backs. soon thousands of people were willing to call on stave's behalf, and he founded voice of choice. today, about 3,000 volunteers call the homes of people who harass doctors landlords or their families across the country. joining me now is todd stave director of voice of choice. thank you for joining us, and congratulations on what seems to be an extraordinaryily clever and effective move back begins those who have been harassing you.

thank you for joining us. >> well thanks for having me, governor. >> you have a bit of history with the anti-choice community. tell us about that. this is not something that is new to you. it's sort of runs deeper in your family history. >> well, right. i've been fighting this at least from the outside since, believe it or not before the age of five years old. my father was an abortion provider in washington even before row roe v. wade, and rather regularly picketed and attacked when i was a kid. in the early 80s his clinic was fire bombed. this is not a new argument for me to join in and fight back against. as a child i just let my parents do it. when they came after me and i had my own family to protect, i had to do something. >> what was notable about what you have done in the grand tradition of being modulated and peaceful. what you have done is turned back the strategy of simply

saying you want to call me, i will call you but the nature of the phone calls is made is quite remarkable. tell us about it and what the instructions are about the calls that would be made. >> first of all i don't understand why it's such a remarkable thing. it's a strategy that i learned on the kindergarten playground. if you hit me, i'm going to hit you back. these people, when they came after me, they tried very hard to incite some sort of violence amongst the people who are there that they're protesting against. it would have been very easy for me to confront the people at my daughter's middle school with some sort of assault. that really wasn't going to solve any problems. in fact, it was going to get me in a lot of trouble. so when the neighbors said to me, all right, todd, what are you going to do? how are you going to fight back? i thought about it for a little while. i said you know what, they're doing what they are doing. let's give it back to them

exactly the same way. i gave them very explicit instructions. i said, look, call them. don't argue with them. don't talk about religion. don't talk about their beliefs. say to them the stave family thank yous you for your prayers for your thoughts. we heard what you had to say but we couldn't terminate the lease and we wouldn't want to. we support women's rights and we're supportive of our tenant and what he's doing there. >> but what you have also expressed is an appreciation both for the modulation of the response but the respect for the first amendment. when the protesters disagree with you are there and exercising their first amendment rights you disagree with them but you see their turf is their turf. your response was when they provoked an unfair line. and going after your daughter when going to middle school, i think most normal people would say is way out of bounds. when did you feel emotionally that you needed to do that?

>> well listen i've wanted to engage in this fight for a long time. but you're right. they're protected by the first amendment. if they're out there in front of the clinic, and they're peaceful and not harassing anybody they're out there praying and doing whatever it is that that is peaceful protest that they do. i can't say anything negative about it. there is a place to stop the protesters and harassers. when they tell me that they're doing the same thing at my clinic. you know what, call me when they follow you home. call me when they do something that crosses that line of what most normal people, as you say would consider anti-social behavior. i'm not going to harass people for the sake of harassing them. i'm going to give back. i'm going to respond the same way they came after me and my family. every case is different.

we've helped people in different parts of the country. i was on the mailing list for defend life. when they decided they were going to protest in baltimore at the race for the cure, it was very easy. i simply sent out the invitation that i got by e-mail to all of my volunteers and said, look, they have graciously left his phone number and the invitation on the-- >> i have to break. there are time constraints. i want to thank you not onlier for the way you have done it,ed totodd stave, thank you so much for being with us tonight. >> thank you governor. >> a new study proves what we already have attack on women that perhaps the majority of the population woke up? >> idaho is not known as approaching act i.v. you had hundreds of women show up, thousands signed petitions. they made their voices heard.

what happens is that now, the legislators are running scared. very similar laws have passed quietly in other states for the past 10 years, really in the past two years have intensified. pennsylvania a similar law was shelved, idaho this proved to be political poison. women are paying attention and having their voices heard. >> thanks for coming in. >> the aclu considers a demand that to get a job you have to let an employer open your private mail, the senate wants to make it illegal to hand over a password to your facebook account.

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>> for over 50 years cigarette companies have been fighting that cigarettes cause cancer. it should come an as no surprise that people don't trust science. in the latest association a examination of the university of chicago general society survey, a poll tackling public confidence in social institutions. according to the analysis, those identifying as conservative show the lowest level of trust in science but more alarming while trust by moderates and liberals remain steady throughout the years. conservatives went from having the most trust in science to the least. joining me is sam sedar the

radio host of ring of fire. thank you for your time. what accounts for this shift. conservatives believed in assistance. the motivemother of bill crystal said that science is a problem for us. when you have objective realities it's harder to state your case that well, cigarettes are not dangerous for you or there is no problem with global warming. >> at what point does it transformation occur? when you go back to history why would science some how compatible with conservative thoughts way back but some how in the last 20, 30 years not so much. >> i think there is, you know, and some people are trying to claim there is a different psychology here. in a certain sense there is among

rents they're dealing with the issues of emancipation of a whole group of people, women minorities, an economic emancipation, and i think that's creating a threat. when you're threatened in that way you hold on to something faith belief and science directly attacks that. >> i can under when you talk about the social issues in terms of minorities rights, women's rights etc. there has been a tension there between conservative ideology. what is it about the notion of tobacco and cancer for republicans that they want to dispute what is prove proveable science at this point. >> i don't think it starts with the conservative mind that has an issue with science. corporations that want to continue to sell tobacco say or put mercury into our air

they say attacking science is the way to do it. >> if you agree or disagree, but there is a coherent world-view of liberty does this science indicate there is an interaction and reliance of one person to the next that is not capital with that screens of individual responsibility. >> i don't know that science has proven we have a connection together that i think is an obvious--it already is existing. but i think to a certain extent what science allows is for society to take actions to deal with problems that effect all these people. that's what they find problematic. >> i think you stated it more articulately than i did. it is perhaps contrary to the individual focus of conservative audiology that looks to each of us to act