spitzer's program view point with eliot spitzer. up next. have an awesome weekend. >> good evening. i'm eliot spitzer and this is so i want where we drill down on the top stories of the day. a dispointing jobs report and mixed signals on where the economy may be heading. employment remains the single most important in this election year. the unemployment rate pushed down a 10th of a point from 8.3 to 8.2%. after two consecutive months where the economy added jobs, today's numbers are considered

relatively weak. analysts credit the drop more to people leaving the job market than the small increase in jobs. >> president obama spun the numbers as best he could at a white house conference on women and the economy. >> our economy has now created more than 4 million private sector jobs over the past two years. more than 600,000 in the past three months alone. but, it's clear to every american that there will still be ups and downs along the way and that we've got a lot more work to do. >> gop challenger on the campaign trail called the jobs report weak and very troubling in a statement adding:

>> actually, it's not clear at all. more positive numbers released this week show the unemployment claims at a four year low and planned layoffs at a 10 year low. joining me now to help make sense of the numbers senior fellow of the roosevelt institute and author of the age of greed jeff thank you for being here. >> pleasure to be here, eliot. >> the expectation had been that we would have job creation north of 200,000, so this is disappointing and troubling. what explains missing that target? >> well, there's no doubt that it's disappointing disappointed me, for example. i thought maybe we were on more of a roll than we seem to be. what plains it is the ups and downs of the economy. we are not running on all four cylinders. we should be creating more jobs a month than the previous three years. we've got a leverage problem in america. people can't spend when they brother owed all that money to buy houses.

>> when you say we have a leverage problem consumers spending, 70% of our economy consumer has too much debt, it is weighing them down, so they are afraid to go out and spend. >> exactly. that makes this recovery much different than the previous recoveries of the entire post world war ii period. this is a tough one to get out of. now, on top of that, the stimulus, the obama stimulus, which. whichi think did work and create jobs is starting to run down. we're facing problems in europe, the worst economic management that could lead a recession mean they buy fewer of our goods. there are high gas prices. >> europe, their growth rate is negative, we sell stuff to them, so not selling as much, hurting hour exports. >> and our income, job creation. >> you referred to something

even more fundamental consumer debt, what drove this, what's different now versus the prior recoveries all the way back to world war ii when housing prices are increasing, consumers feel wealthier, they spend more. >> when housing prices plummet they pend less. add to that the enormous amounts of debt they took on and we've got a real problem pulling out of this recession. people have been talking about it a long time. >> now the numbers are am big you say object 120,000 jobs were created. the unemployment went down 10%. we need 250,000 jobs a month long term to stay stable. >> roughly speaking, just to stay even, just to create enough jobs to employ people coming into the work force, we have to create 100,000 to 120,000 jobs. we to have create another

3 million to 5 million jobs on top of that to get back to what we think of as full employment. the unemployment rate dropped faster than it should have given the rate of economic growth we have. >> i want to drill down to those numbers a little bit and i don't want this to become an economy seminar, but hit rom is saying something that is true, people are dropping out of the work force. why that is happening and what does that do to the unemployment rate. >> that's been happening for a long time. the proportion of americans who work is well down from 2007. they are giving up. they are not finding jobs, they are not finding good jobs, that maybe is the single most important factor that's been going on here. the only way to get out of that is to get a strong economy back. >> i'm going to use the technical phrase the labor force participation rate, that's the phrase right?

>> indeed. people should get used to that phrase. over a 20 year time period, looking back that number had been increasing, more people working, which means more wage earners, more wealth to the middle class less people working, less income to the middle class. >> and less income to spend to keep the economy growing. we know that. the unemployment rate's really 15% when you include the people who can only get part time jobs or have basically given up. that's really a high rate. >> there's something about u6, the other 15% that you just mentioned, including people who are only so-called margin ally attached. that's an important number. >> that's the part time workers or discouraged workers. they can't find jobs, want full time but only find part time. that's increased enormously.

>> you've painted a grim picture. it's friday night. i don't want that negative news, you are ahead of something at the roosevelt institute a project to redefine what government is. if you were in charge give me the thing you would do now to jump start the economy. >> it's a new initiative, rediscovering government. we've got to spend our way out of this on infrastructure, increase social programs. it's a tough do with republicans demanding the opposite. if the republicans could, they would wreck this economy. >> i agree with you, but i want to make sure everybody understands. you're saying the concern right now should not be the deficit. >> not at pull. it's just tragic that we think we to have take care of this deficit now. we really don't have to take care of this deficit for seven eight or nine years. the real problem as you've discussed and we've all discussed is health care costs driving up medicare.

we've got to deal with the health crisis. >> we're going to continue this conversation ahead in the weeks and months to come. republicans want to turn us into europeans into recession. jeff, many thanks. >> he will i don't get, thank you. >> for more on the politics of the jobs numbers i'm joint by brian boytler. thank you for joining us. >> thanks for having me. >> let's put this into a political context. these jobs numbers are ambivalent at best. got to be honest about that. we've been talking about gender gaps, he can't relate to real people, the latino community. now he can talk about the economy. he has a life raft to hold on to? >> that's about right. his line on the economy when he's talking about not trying to dodge all these other battles about women and contraception

and what not is that the obama recovery took too long and that's obama's fault answered that's hard to make resonate when the economy is adding 250,000 jobs a month but when you get a report like this, half of that figure, that starts to sound like it's making a built more sense. >> a fundamental divide in the arc of this campaign is going to be whether or not the economy picks up quickly enough for concerns about the economy to drive the voters or not. for president obama, with job numbers like today if the trend line continues to be down below 100,000 jobs created next month trips, suddenly, he's going to be playing defense and not offense the way he has been in the last couple months. >> that's exactly right. there's a fine line between the lightning being too far at the end of the tunnel for voters to

change perception about who they want to be running the country. with the unemployment rate to come down, people living in the real economy thinking my job is secure or i've been unemployed for a while but now have real options, that makes sticking with your incumbent seem like a much better deal than switching over to the other guy. but when it doesn't seem -- when things aren't that optimistic, you know voters make different choices. >> the real problem for mitt romney right now is he has to give us an agenda. it's one thing to attack the 13th century ideas of rick santorum or newt gingrich, but it's byerly different to come up with an agenda to compare to president obama's about bringing the economy back. what is his argument going to be, tax cuts and deregulate again? i don't see that resonating. >> you get a bit of a model from republicans, because on the one hand, the party's governing

agenda don't seem to have anything to do with improving the jobs situation in the country. what they end up talking about is the fact that obama promised better employment numbers at the beginning of his presidency than he's been able to deliver and reverting to bush era trickle down policies will certainly improve things, but president obama has a pretty good response to that which he delivered at a speech earlier this week, and so at some point, i think that it will be sort of crucial for mitt romney to say something a little bit different about why -- what he plans to do as president that would be better for the economy. >> the president is certainly going to respond by saying been there, done that, it didn't turn out so well. on the other hand, i think many thought going into the 2010

elections, still in the grip of this very deep recession a harder hole to dig out of, but back in 2010, the president was saying the same thing about the republican agenda. it's not so clear to me that the republicans won't simply repeat what we view as sort of a broken tape that ends in tragedy not comedy certainly but it seems to me that's the president's response. here's my question to you, what can the president offer in terms of new policy agendas not a new stimulus or great infrastructure, congress isn't going to do. where does the president find support for his agenda? >> if you're talking about real substantive support that could improve the economy he has the fed or nothing. i think he'll get backup from his party in the senate. he did introduce this jobs bill several months ago that included

infrastructure investment, it included sort of a host of measures that i think the mainstream of economic thought is that would it actually improve the economy and they'll shadow box over that bill, continue to hold test votes over do you want to provide jobs for teachers and pay for it with a small increase in tax on income% of a million dollars every democratic will volt for it, republican against it and president obama can go cabbing pain on that. that's less than ideal for him. he would prefer for some policy direction to actually improve things for the economy. i guess messaging is better than nothing. >> what you said before is exactly right, he has the fed and nobody else. the problem with that is the fed, given its exercise to monetary policy that used up the tools it has got still jumping through hoops gyration of all

sorts. has pretty much run its course on the fed. doesn't have enough room to push and pull to get things moving again for the numbers if the job numbers don't get better a lot. from his perspective, that's the thing that worries him. >> as far as policy tools of the executive branch controls on its own, he's basically out of luck. he's got to hope that this month's numbers were a kind of statistical noise or that his income benz and his talents as a politician, all the other factors that make reelection easier than defeating an incumbent, you know, pushing through in november, but you know, just as far as what he can do, aside outside of the bully pulpit, he's out of options. >> there's going to be a lot of screaming and shouting, signifies absolutely nothing

because forces are going to determine the course of this economy. brian, thanks for some of our time tonight. >> thank you so much. >> coming up, british television giant sky t.v. admits to hacking but insists it was just editor ally justified and in the public interest. oh. i guess that makes it ok. rupert gets to decide when he can break the law. sure. why not. let's give rupert that power too, coming up next on viewpoint. at&t provided a mobile solution that lets everyone from field workers to accounting, initiate, bill and track work in real time. you can't live under a dome in minnesota that's why there's guys like me. [ male announcer ] it's a network of possibilities -- helping you do what you do... even better. ♪ ♪

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james murdoch steps down two days before the cot admits to hacking emails. the company it is the two are not related. i'll give you my view on the jobs numbers ahead on viewpoint. that. >>jennifer granholm joins current tv. a former two term governor. >>people like somebody who's got

a spine. >>determined to find solutions... >>we need government to ensure that people have freedom. >>driven to find the truth... >>what's really going on? >>fearless, independent and above all, politically direct. i know this stuff and i love it and i try to bring that to the show. yesterday, the r. growing hacking scandal seeped into sky news, admitting to email hacking on two separate occasions. it's a criminal offense to email hack in britain. the head of sky's network confessed he authorized the hacking, but said although it is

illegal, it was done in the public's interest. i quote: >> so they will decide for us when they get to break the law. on tuesday murdoch's son and former heir apparent stepped down from sky. in the near future, head of commons committee is expected to release a report on hacking. so far, more than 40 of murdoch's journalists and executives have been arrested. let's bring in michael wolf. i don't think anybody knows more about the media journalism or rupert murdoch than you. does this go all the way to the top?

>> of course it does. in every respect this is about one thing, it's about the murdoch family. it's about the ethos they brought to the company how they carried it out how the children relate to the father how the father relates to the children. it's their mess. >> this is shakespeareen play at so many different levels. it strikes me as someone who has been a prosecutor in the government, yes we broke the law, but we determined it was in the public interest and hence it's ok, you shouldn't prosecute us. is anybody going to take that seriously? >> no, because of everything that has come before. i will carve out a little parentheses here that does explain that for the brits that's an excuse, you can literally say we're journalists we broke the law because the

public benefits from this. put that aside. the focus is going to be on a person, a pattern a pattern, a pattern, a pattern. >> when this began nine, 10 months ago the first word oozing out and it broke because celebrities there sensed their emails and phone had been hacked into and the awful case of the victim of the kidnapping. they said one isolated incident. >> and it wasn't 10 months ago. remember, they began saying that as early as 2005. >> right but every time they've made such a defense, what has happened? completely false. >> everything, and that's finally why james murdoch was in the situation that he's in, because it became the pattern there was everything they say was proved wrong again and again. >> so their internal investigations pure whitewashes, a joke, a sham, the testimony before parliament, do you think james in your dom intentionally deceived parliament. >> i don't think he told the

truth. i think james was trying to do something else and his mind was on something else, and little possible that he never quite focused on what was really wrong here and, but forget about it. he knew, he covered up, and yes he lied. >> we now have this in the heart and the major piece of their empire, we have it in their t.v. stations, we have it in australia, slightly different context. do you think it happened here in the united states? >> let me set the stage here. this is one of the most aggressive companies that has succeeded over the past several generations. everything they do, they do in the most aggressive way possible. they don't go out and say we're going to break the law we're just going to do it harder, tougher than all of our competitors. so, if there is a situation in

which they can get to the line, they will go to the line they done it here have they hacked phones here? well, to be perfectly honest, i can't believe that their british counterparts news of the world a lot of reporters here, celebrity stories here so i'm sure something went on. >> you're referring to something that i think is important for folks to understand. not only are the celebrities on both sides of the atlantic, but manyette tories also go from one side of the atlantic to the other for rupert, begin in england and australia end up here. same people on different continents, hard to believe they leave those practices behind when the technology is just as easy here? >> aggressive. he has two news operations here, putting aside the wall street journal which he acquired later fox news, he has the new york

post. fox news doesn't really do reporting. their out there. >> they make it up. >> get stories. >> they just sit here and it just comes out of their mouth a cheap way to run a news organization. likewise, the new york post. it is a very lean, small ultimately infectual organization that gains its voice because they have a gossip page, which both you and i know something about. >> you have this entire news corps under assault in england. here is there a basis for prosecution and if so, do you think it's likely to happen. >> that is the question that everybody is asking, because ultimately what happens to this company, the fate of this company, depends upon what the justice department does. this is an american company. the bulk of its revenues are --

come from its american operation, so that's what everyone wants to know and no one knows. they do have the federal corrupt practices act, which says if you bribe a foreign government for business advantage wimp clearly they have done separate frock the hacking the police investigation, they've bribed hundred was police. >> which they admit. as a lawyer, i know a little bit about this, a prosecution would be admitted based on the fact are that are already out there if this justice department wanted to do it, if they have the will power to do it. >> i think that they will more likely have the will power after the election. >> are you suggesting politics intercedes in this justice department? >> oh, my. >> michael wolf saying something

that none of us ever would have thought of before. author of the man who knows the news, thank you for being here. >> what do bill murray, bill o'reilly and michele bachmann have in common? next. while you're out catching a movie. [ growls ] lucky for me your friends showed up with this awesome bone. hey! you guys are great. and if you got your home insurance where you got your cut rate car insurance, it might not replace all this.

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icy, cool flavor in a delicious 5-calorie stick of gum. ♪ ♪ polar ice. from extra. let's see what we weren't able to get to and take a look through the view finder. >> bill murray just introduced and i guess he's going to run the basis first. >> join me now as we pay bill o'reilly. >> am i what? >> did you see barack. >> do you like mitt romney, support his views feel comfortable on a ticket with him? >> well, you know, i've never been out on a dinner date with him if that's what you're asking me, so i don't know filled like him. >> would you pay $4 for a shrimp if it were wrapped in a

ten-dollar bill netting you $6. >> he said in this world, you will have trouble. in this -- >> there will be the sacredness of easter. it's not a tim tebow show. >> would you buy a $4 shrimp that's thrown to the exhaust port and save the planet? >> no. >> we don't elect a president anymore, we elect a health care dictator. >> i hope they take calista seriously. >> he will say anything for the job. >> talked about it on a morning

radio show. >> we apologize we don't have to clip. >> four-dollar shrimp, not worth saving. >> safe! >> i've seen a lot of politicians these days. i'm voting for bill murray for president. he's the one that's made the judgments for us. >> hydraulic fracturing linked to earthquakes. all this time we thought they were trying to extract natural gas when really they were creating more beach front property. coming up. >>at eharmony we take the time to get to know you...

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>> it's a new report, a research team linked an unprecedented string of earthquakes to fracking. either in states sitting along the shale formation. in the promise of extracting natural gas, hundreds of millions of gallons are water sand and chemicals are pumped 8,000 feet underground at such high pressure, it causes the land to fracture releasing the gas. the researchers say one possible cause of the increase in quakes

may be the reinjection of waste water into drilling wills. they conclude: >> joining me now is former acting assistant secretary on energy, joe roam. thanks for joining me. >> thanks for having me. >> if i understand this report properly and frankly i've never seen the word seismicity before, you are sure the tracking is causing the increase in earthquakes. >> i think the answer is it's

very likely. what the u.s. geological survey found this unprecedented increase in earthquakes just around areas where fracking was done and by fracking, hydraulic fracturing, injecting fluids with unknown chemicals deep underground, but the thing to remember is theft of these earthquakes are thought to be caused by the reinjection after the fluid comes up one have this waste water with governing in it and it is reinjected very deep into deep underground aquifers, thought to trigger the earthquakes. it is a staggering amount of water. that's what's doing it. we are consuming literally billions and billions of gallons of water for this purpose and it is having a geologic i'm pact.

>> they were looking at areas from ohio, oklahoma, all the way out to the rookie mountains unprecedented increase. these are earthquakes larger than magnitude three. >> the reason i want to focus for a 10th of a second is this is not a 10% increase, a 600% increase suggests something fundamental has in fact happened here that needs to be explained. >> yes no, i think this is a tipping point may have been crossed. this was very, very puzzling, because it is hard to trigger earthquakes, so they typically don't expect it. when you see this huge increase right aren't where there is no new type of oil and gas

drilling, it seems we've crossed a threshold. my intuition is because we are using such vast amounts of water. as one example, texas in the year 2010 used 13 billion gallons of water for fracking, so it is a staggering amount of water. it's in one texas county, 40% of ground water withdrawals are for fracking. >> just to put this into process, when fracking was analyzed and considered nobody appreciated the magnitude of the water reinjected to the wells would be this. >> nobody expected even 10 years ago that we would be getting such a large fraction of natural gas frock fracking, but it's everywhere, new york state to the colorado rockies it's a gold rush and like the wild west in that there are very little regulations, it's all trust-us regulations with the industry,

which got away with having very little regulations by saying hey, this is never going to amount to very much, so you don't want to have the hassle of regulation for something that's so small. >> am i also correct that until now, the nature of the debate had been pretty much we see the video of somebody's water coming out of the faucet catching on fire, as horrendous as that may be, it's isolated to one person's kitchen. now if you're talking about the possibility of earthquakes somehow the entire debate takes on a different order of magnitude. this report could be a seismic event in analyzing and thinking about fracking. >> i think so. it should be a wakeup call. it's not that these earthquakes are big enough to cause a lot of damage but should be a signal that hey, we are really starting to do so much that we're affecting, you know, the geological system, mother nature. we have to remember, this is the earthquake problem on top of the

toxic chemicals the methane releases, the very real global warming concerns of leaky methane, and then you have all this staggering amount of water that we're using. when you put them all together, it's time to step back and take a serious look at whether we're causing more harm than doing good. >> what is the industry response going to be? industry leaders do see it as the answer for energy needs and bringing our energy needs back to domestic production all of those things we do want to do. what would their response be to this particular issue of earthquakes and the fracking? >> it was small, mostly caused by people who didn't know what they were doing.

i guess my response would be if you look at what the state of ho i how did when they came to the view that there was induced seismicity, there are places you can't do this, you have to do monitoring, plug up certain of your wells and on and off and on. ideally, if we were a rational world, there would be federal regulations on how you go about doing this. this is a tough world to push federal regulations in. >> thanks for your insights tonight. >> thanks for having me. >> the unemployment rate falls but it's not good news. i'll give you my take, coming up next.

attack on women that perhaps the majority of the population woke up? >> idaho is not known as approaching act i.v. you had hundreds of women show up, thousands signed petitions. they made their voices heard. what happens is that now, the legislators are running scared. very similar laws have passed quietly in other states for the

past 10 years, really in the past two years have intensified. pennsylvania a similar law was shelved, idaho this proved to be political poison. women are paying attention and having their voices heard. >> thanks for coming in. >> the aclu considers a demand that to get a job you have to let an employer open your private mail, the senate wants to make it illegal to hand over a password to your facebook account. >> an audio surfaces of players

couraged to attack the other team's injuries. can web surprised this is what nfl locker rooms sound like? coming up next, the u.s. economy creates 120,000 jobs and the unemployment rates drop. i'll give you my view on the jobs report, next. as i understand it in radio they can't see you, so this is big for me. >>tv and radio talk show host stephanie miller rounds out current's new morning news block. >>it's completely inappropriate for television. >>sharp tongue, quick wit and

about all, politically direct. >>politically direct to me means no bs, the real thing, cutting through the clutter. my show is the most important show in the world. the defensive coordinator caught on tape telling his players to target the other side's injuries. we heard today that the economy was not growing as quickly as it should be. three numbers are going to determine the outcome of this november election, whatever we may have been discussing this past week about gender differences or minority votes the unemployment rate price of house be and price the gas. we all should know there's not really anything the president can do about the price of gas. that's a 10 year, 20 year set of

policies, between now and november, nothing the president can do. the price are housing, for the past three and a half years, this administration has not had the housing policy. it needed one, but it didn't ever one. we gave the banks all the money but didn't do anything for homeowners. when it comes to jobs, they've done what they could do. what has worked? what has worked has been a stimulus that the federal government and the president pushed through and quantitative easing, a bunch of hard words but something that the federal reserve bank put in place. those two things brought us back from the deepest recession we have seen since 1929. we saw the fruits of those policies over the past couple years when jobs have been created and have been created not at a sufficient pace, but it's been working. here's the funny thing. this patient is getting healthier, but the stimulus is running out and the fed is running out of political support. the republicans want us to take the patient off the medicine

that's working. they keep saying austerity austerity, austerity, stop spending money. you know what? the republicans want to turn us into europe. europe went to the root of austerity and you know what's happening? they're falling back into recession. i think it's time that president obama stood up loud and clear and said you, the republicans are going to kill this patient. you, the republicans are going to turn us into europe. we don't want that. we want an economy that works. old fashioned economics, it's been working, stick with it. that's why we should be voting for this president. that's my view.

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>> 2,000 years ago, lions battled gladiators, today it's nhl. players were rewarded for injuring the opposing team. yesterday, audio surfaced captured by a documentary film maker who has only released the tapes as a warning to the parents of children who play football. greg williams is heard giving a pep talk. players would be paid to inflict brutal injury to the 49ers including to quarterback alex

smith: >> and williams added what could be the mantra for the nfl mindset: >> join meg now, sports editor for the nation and author of the john carlos story dave ziron. thanks for joining me tonight. >> great to be here, thank you. >> my first question, i began this read with the reference to the roman coliseum where lions would battle people and the public loved the brutality of it. have we made any progress since

then? >> i would argue we've made tremendous regress since then. at least the coliseum was what it was and people knew what they were getting. the problem with the nfl is there is a huge gap between the image of this $9 billion in terms of revenue league and the reality of what happens inside a locker room, underneath the pile. what you're seeing now is this tremendous tension that exists between an nfl that wants to present itself as america's game, this fan-friendly spores fun for the entire family and the reality of what it actually takes to compel 20 something and 30 something millionaires to do incredibly violent things. >> i don't disagree with you but want to argue the other side. the players know what they're getting into, being paid extraordinarily with that, concussions, a deeper concern.

it's not like they are somehow forced into this industry. >> one could make the case in this country with the professionalization of youth sports and the nfl draws players from poor and working class strata and it's a game you can only play for three and a half years, typical nfl player dice 20 years before a typical male, that it's set up for people willing to engage in brutality because it's their only way out of a specific situation. in has reward, we haven't progressed that far. joe dimaggio said if you want to find someone who becomes a world series champion, you better find someone who gross up with hunger in their belly. in that reward, we haven't come very far. i'm very concerned with the terms in the debate about violence in the nfl, it's almost a debate between scarlett o'hara and tony soprano.

>> i have a hard time see that go. >> it would get great ratings one side scarlett saying i'm shocked to find out that there's profanity in the locker room and violence in this great game and on the other side, the tony soprano side, and their reaction is very much like hey it's a violent game we do what we do. >> i've read your argument saying this faux surprise, bounties or violence, let's get rid of that, this is known. let's get rid of the perception that somehow the nfl management did not know about this, put that aside. what do you do about it, go to the sport and not tolerate it and would the sport survive if you really did clean it up. >> if the sport really wanted to clean it up, they would be

looking at investigates it every single team in the league, not just the new orleans saints. if they did that this would truly be the story that never went away. the nfl would be dealing with this for the next several years at tremendous cost to its brand and earning potential. i've argued from the beginning that this is about the nfl making an argument to the judiciary of this country because now they are facing a class action lawsuit multiple, seven at latest counts that involve more than 1,000 former players that says that the nfl consciously put them in situations where they'd be at risk for chronic head injuries. they're trying to say we're taking care of this now, look at what we're doing to the new orleans saints rather than dealing with it in honest fashion. this is a sport with a 100% injury rate. consumers and parents have the right to know that instead of a fiction being project that had we can regulate violence.

>> boxing has gone through something of a similar transformation, people appreciate, we see boxers in middle age that have dementia and serious brain injuries. do you think it's because the public saw what the actual impact of boxing was that it lost its popularity and when you move to wear hedger, disappears to the fringes of sports these days? >> i've spoken to people high up in the nfl and they have told me that this is their great fear that the nfl will go the way of boxing. there was a time when boxing was the number one sport. what's really hurt it, turned it into a regional sport is because of generation of parents seeing footage of muhammed ali and what the sport has done. there used to be a dozen boxing gyms in the county i grew up in, now only one. >> ultimate fighting is growing.

ultimate fighting is perhaps as close and you say get to the roman coliseum today, people bleeding profusely, putting guys in a cage, going at it, should that be legal or should we just ban that sport? >> i don't think it can be banned. i don't think it should be banned. i think people do go in with a sense of free will. i think we're going back to a time like in the late 19th 19th century where you have high sports and low sports. that's what the nfl wants to avoid, become ago low sport. it means a lot of passion and a lot less money. >> sports editor for the nation dave, thanks so much for your time tonight. no question this is going to be an issue that is tough for the nfl to deal with. stay right here for the war room. thanks for spending time with us.