tonight tonight. wisconsin election results coming up. we will be back live at 10:00 o'clock to tell you more about wisconsin. we will see you throughout tonight. viewpoint is next. >> good even egging. i am he will on-the-job spitzer. i will be joined by former vice president al gore in a moment. but first, on wisconsin, polls close in a little less than an hour in the state's historic recall election, one that could make republican scott walker om the third sitting governor in the united states history to have his term cut short by the voters. the did i have vicedivisive issue to eliminate collective bargaining rights for most public sector employees. a rematch between walker and milwaukee's democratic mayor tom barrett who lost the gorevernor's

seat to walker by six points in 20s 10. as promised, we are joined by current tv, co-founder and chairman and 45th vice president of the united states al gore. mr. vice president, an honor as always to have you on the show. >> thank you so much for having me. >> it is a great honor. let me ask you: is what we are seeing in wisconsin a microcosm of the divisiveness and anger that permeates our politics right now? >> well, i hope that we can get away from divisiveness but as billy joel sang "we didn't start the fire." the actions of governor walker in pursuing a very extreme, hard right-wing divisive agenda really set the stage for this. what we are seeing, also is a test of whether or not these elderly right-wing billionaires can buy an election. we also see karl rove putting huge amounts of money into this.

the money advantage, according to one report that i read was 8 to 1. >> uh-huh. >> of course with the dominance of these 30-second television advertises, that kind of money advantage goes a long way. but i think we are very close now to the point where working people and middle income families have had enough. they want a little more equality of opportunity in our country and in the state of wisconsin. >> uh-huh. >> so all of the money isn't concentrated at the top and the people who are hired by the wealthy and powerful do their bidding and changing the laws to the disadvantage of middle income families. it's gone far enough. and i hope. i really hope tom barrett wins tonight. >> i think we all share that perspective and hope. you are right. i hate to talk about quoting billy joel but we didn't start this fire or fight. we had tomas mann and men have

made a case that it thevan party that has veered to the right, not going left and right. the republican party has gone so far right. i think that is demonstrated in scott walker's agenda in wisconsin. >> absolutely. a lot of the agenda was crafted by the right-wing lobby group, the american legislative exchange counsel or alec. and they write what the special interests want and then the bills are just rubber stamped, not even changed in one particular. and i have seen your exchanges with norm and his co-author. they did a terrific job. you know, neither one of them has ever been considered left of scepter. in fact, both of them are a little bit right of scepter in my opinion. but they are long-time, measured

analysts of the way american democracy works and what they wrote is that they are shocked at the extreme approach that the republican party and the tea party influence within it has taken in our country today. >> i think that's exactly right. the fact that they were and are viewed by most as being right of center voices lend additional credence to their crit ike that the republican party has veered so far to the right. let's get the latest to wisconsin's recall e elections and go to david shuster, current tv's correspondent on the ground. david you have been there. what is the sense of what you pick up? how do we understand the numbers that will come in tonight? >> well voters activists and organizers, a heavy turnout on both sides. various sides of the day find comment particularly on the democratic side. a lot of people here in madison -- this is a very strong county for democrats and for barrett. a lot of people excited saying this is the day where they can

finally, say wisconsin is not for sale. there were a number of festival-like music jams, a lot of impromptu organizations with union organizers and folks singing song because the weather has been spectacular. that may be another reason why people are saying, i am going to take the time to go to the polls. >> in perspectstiff, everything i have been hearing is you have two bench marks, the votes cast in 2008 when president obama won by a surprising 14 points or does it surpass 2010 when the turnout was a bit lower but substantial when scott walker was elected? how do we begin to measure the turnout? who is likely to win based upon this disparrett turnout that we are seeing? >> at least based on the exit polling that shows that union households up by 6% some have exceeded 2010 models and this is a couple of hours. so that would be a good sign for democrats. keep in mind, though, this is

good for our viewers as they track the results, when they come in an hour for now, walker will have a pretty substantial lead. the county usually the last to report is milwaukee county. the largest focus of votes for barrett. he got 210 votes back in 2010. you will see walker up by tens of thousands of votes and then late into the night when milwaukee county finally starts coming in and they have had some voting problems, handwritten ballats, when the number comes in, can barrett make up the difference when the fine votes, precinct start reporting? >> david i don't want to put you on the spot. do you know what percentage of the total state vote milwaukee has? new york and unstate three distinction voting areas. what percentage of the vote is milwaukee and so how much does tom barrett really depend upon that? >> at least based upon 2010, and

based on 2010 about 210,000 votes, a little over a million state w50idz so i would say milwaukee county is looking at perhaps at least 20% of what barrett can expect to gain a little bit less than walker. something like 61% there. he needs to run up the totals there, in gain county madison where he got 68% at about 150,000 votes back two years ago. >> the vice president a couple of moments ago alluded to the fact that the money spent was 8 to 1 in favor of the incumbent, scott walker a huge % of that coming from outside the state. have you when you talked to voters on the ground, regular folks, heard any push back saying we want this to be over. we are tired of being bombarded buy out of staters telling us how to run our lives? >> this is the first reaction i

have seen, we get there is all kind of money buying negative as. this is the election. we have heard voters say it over and over. this, putting this aside. they can spend as much money as folks want to. we are going to decide based upon issues that matter to wisconsin workers and voters. >> that's been -- it's amazing because, as you know negative ads usually suppress turnout. and despite all of the negative ads here particularly on the republican side, turnout is looking higher for democrats. the negative strategy may not have worked in this case for the republicans. >> there has been enormous energy throughout this even from the earliest days when the notion of a recall was first raised over a year ago. the issue, itself, aroused enormous emotion and money has and if the plans of what has been an ideologicaltition of what has been real. stay with us. i am joined by state senator chris larson a milwaukee democrat. senator larson let me stay with you for a minute. give us a sense if you would.

there is a battle for the state senate. how do those races look? >> one thing to remember is that a democrat can only gain today. all four seats that are up for recall are held by republicans currently as well as obviously the governorship. democrats have room to gain. all we need to do is pick up one seat, just one for democrats to have the majority in the state senate, at which point if the governor's race doesn't go our way, we have that insurance policy. all you need is one. i was down today where we kicked off a canvas along with the mayor and we had over 100 volunteers, people going out in the middle of the day, making sure everyone is voting. over the course of the weekend we have seen in these recall elections, they have run out of clipboards because there is such an overwhelming number of volunteers. there is a lot of energy, people recognize nationally people aren't paying attention to it as much but people in the state

recognize each one of these races is crucial. >> okay. as you pointed out, if the democratic party, if we pick up one of those four seats and control the state senate swings over to the democratic party, which would mean that scott walker, even if he is reelected will not be in a position to push his very conservative right-wing agenda. that, obviously, is a critical issue as well to be following through the night as the votes come in. can you handicap these four races? is there anything we should be looking for that you feel optimistic about? >> all we need is one. the chamber is split right now. 16-16, but the race that i would say we should watch will be a good indicator is the racine race where you have john layman who held that seat two years ago going against van waynegard. that has got he en a lot of attention. a lot paying close attention to what's going on there. i encourage you to see what's going to happen there. >> we will be watching those

numbers. graham let me turn to you, over a year ago when the fuse was let, it was the issue of collective collective bargaining rights for public sector employees that was right at the vor texas of this. it aroused emotions that were overwhelming. in the past week or two, the issue of the john doe investigation seems to have taken center stage instead of the right of -- rights of collective bargaining. why sta? how have the issued played? what have you had found to be the most persuasive argument for the ticket? >> we have always said collective bargaining or the attack on it was the original sin scott walker committed that created this movement. it was followed by several other acts that spoke to his integrity and i don't think anything under cats that more than a grand jury sitting out there calling your political friends in before them. scott walker is implicated in crimes clearly it could be that days after this election, he is indicted on federal charges,

david shuster has done good reporting on that. he is implicated in the spread john doe investigation. they marry together because the john doe investigation speaks to his integrity and honesty. he says i am a boy scout. i am an eagle scout. trust me, where the record is clear. he has a clear record of ethical lapses that date back to high school and college. so people are very uneasy about this. they saw in the assault on collective bargaining something that wasn't prepared to speak truthfully to the people of wisconsin. we are straight shooters in wisconsin. we don't like kind of fancy talk where you say one thing and do another. he has been caught now on camera saying he wants to divide and conquer conquer. who can forget the koch brothers call that tells you all you need to know about scott walker. >> these are persuasive arguments. it's been a tight race up until the last minute and 47 minutes or so until the polls close and

the polling has shown this to be incredibly close. how has the public broken on the issue of collective bargaining? we have seen the public has not moved a lot. if anything, it meist moved against civil service unions? it seems to have been counter intuitive to me. >> some of the exit polls, the union house homicide have come out in greater numbers because they understand the stakes. let's be clear. scott walker isn't attacking public unions. he made clear in that conversation with diane hendricks who i saw, a billion air koch brothers person who has given -- wrote a 500,000 dollar check to scott walker. he made clear that right to work for less legislation is coming in to break the backs of the private sector unions. people have a lot of muscle memory hear about unions. if they weren't in the union, their uncle was their granted paw was, unions build the middle class, same exit poll you are referring to shows very

different opinions about public sector unions and unions in general. we have union moreover and it extended rights for everyone union and non-union alike. >> certainly i could not agree with you more the necessity of collective bargaining is something we have to mac make that argument more and more powerful as the months and years go forward. mr. vice president, do you think it's right or wrong to see what happened in wisconsin today as some sort of prem in addition or leading indicator about november's e elections or is this a local race and are we with wrong to try to learn lessons from it? >> i don't know eliot. my intuition is, it's not necessarily an indicator of what wisconsin will do in november. now, if the fellow i want to win, tom barrett wins, maybe i will be attempted to say the other thing.

but -- i will be tempted to say the other thing. but even though tom wins -- as i said, i hope he does. i still don't think that this race is necessarily. witch

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zielenski. we are joined this entire hour by former preponderate al gore. we are going to talk about a great argument mitt romney made in favor of an individual healthcare mandate. >> that's ahead on "viewpoint." i have the most common type of atrial fibrillation, or afib. it's not caused by a heart valve problem. i was taking warfarin, but my doctor put me on pradaxa instead to reduce my risk of stroke. in a clinical trial, pradaxa® (dabigatran etexilate mesylate) reduced stroke risk 35% better than warfarin. and unlike warfarin, with pradaxa, there's no need for regular blood tests. that's really important to me. pradaxa can cause serious, sometimes fatal, bleeding. don't take pradaxa if you have abnormal bleeding and seek immediate medical care

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>> mitt romney pittsburgh steelers defense back before the tea party took the etch-a-sketch candidate and shook him up. >> that's next on viewpoint. fall. (vo) granholm is live in the war room. >> what should women be doing? >> electing women to office. (vo) she's a political trailblazer. >>republicans of course didn't let facts get in the way of spin.

>>do it, for america. >>(narrator) gavin newsom, lieutenant governor of california, and former mayor of san francisco is on current tv. >>every night on cable news networks everyone's focusing on what's wrong. i want this show to move past that. i love creative people, and with all the vexing problems we have we need creative thinking. >>(narrator) with interviews with notables from silicon valley, hollywood, and beyond. >>at the end of the day this show's simple. it's about ideas. ideas are the best politics. ideas can bring us together. >>(narrator) the gavin newsom show. friday at 11 eastern/8 pacific. only on current tv. >> mitt romney was for the individual mandate before he was against it. according to newly surfaced e-mails as his time of governor of massachusetts. he felt the mandate was one of the essential pieces of a healthcare overhaul.

as an op-ed signed before he signed the legislation, governor romney wrote, quota: >> indeed e-mails revealed it in the original version of the op-ed, romney added, i quote, an uninsured libertarian might counter that he could refuse the free care but under law, that is impossible and i amnhumane. more proof the etch-a-sketch candidate continues to recreate himself time and time again. joining me former vice president and the co-founder of current tv al gore and rolling stone national political correspondents, tim dickinson. mr. vice president, let me begin with you. i continue to be amazed at the wait mitt romney has re-created himself on issue afficand these glaring inconsistencies are not -- he is not being held accountable for it. how is that the case? >> i totally agree.

and i have the same question, governor. i think people get used to candidates being accused of flip-flopping, changing their positions, and it's not all that unusual. but the reality is that mid romney has taken that to a completely new level. i have never seen a candidate with as many positions changed 180 degrees on crucial issues and what "the wall street journal" uncovered in this morning's paper is a very clear black and white example, and we've known about his previous support for the principals on which obama care is based. the president's healthcare plan and i don't know how he can deny this. like you, i am surprised that

has not been that he has been taken to task more than he has been. >> it's one thing if positions evolve. positions can change. there is a rational process of thinking, learning, and changing one's view but on the other hand, mitt romney on issues of economic theory, social policy has gone across the spectrum as a mere factor of political calculation. >> climate, also. >> i don't get why this has not sort of scarred him as a political candidate. >> you know, i think that there was a choice that his -- some of his independent had to focus on that or to try to paint him as a right-wing extremist. i don't know. maybe they will revisit that choice because i think he is highly vulnerable given the record of complete changes of position. >> look. i think we are all looking forward to the debates this fall. there are going to be three podiums, one for the president and two for mitt romney. it's go back and forth. >> i thought teddy kennedy's

line in the race when romney challenged him in the senate race teddy ken die said i am pro-choice. it's multiple choice. that was pretty good. >> tim, let me turn back to you. one of the things that has struck me that is almost ironic of the president and mitt romney on healthcare, for each of them, in a way, it is his signature accomplishment, the president did, in fact get a healthcare bill through that extends healthcare to the entire populace. mitt romney did something creative when he was in massachusetts and neither one wants to talk about it. it's as though they may call each other at 2 in the among and saying, gee wouldn't it be nice that we could talk about what we did that was great for the country? why is it neither one can talk about? >> the politics are very complications indicated. obamacare is a big sort of ugly bill in its biggest form. the boogey man has been done so

much as a popular thing. in fairness to romney, president obama has had a flip-flop on the mandate issue as well. he was against it when he was running against hillary clinton and sort of dragged kicking and screaming to embrace it. i think the real reason is that this is go to be an election about economics and right now, the president's job, the job of his political team is to make sure people don't feel romney has the magic sauce to get the economic going again because i think the issues of character, the flipflopery isn't going to matter if they think romney has the solution on the economy. >> tim, i think that's right. as somebody once said, it's the economy stupid. mr. vice president let me come back to you. i am surprised the white house instead of attacking bain and mitt romney's record of bain has pluses and minuses wouldn't the white house be better off saying, we are better off than you are, contrat general motors and the auto bail out and we are

successful private equity investors. we know how to use and deploy capitol, use wide leverage and create jobs rather than just attacking bain and seeing the downside. >> i think there is a basic issue of candor here take the auto bail-out for example. governor romney wrote the famous op-ed where he called for letting general motors go bankrupt. now, he has tried to say that that wasn't his position. but again, it's there in black and white. i agree with tim's point on the economy. but on that issue as well he endorses the paul ryan budget and as plain as day that budget makes the budget deficit and the long-term debt much much worse. it's just simple arithmetic and it continues to make income inequality worse in the country.

the basic position is identical in almost every respect to the plan that the bush-cheney administration put in place that created the catastrophe in the first place. so, yes, i think that the economy is clearly the main issue. but he needs to be held accountable for these non-sensical recommendations that are so identical to what caused the problem. >> look, if ever there has been a campaign where it would be déjà vu al over again, it would be mitt romney bringing back bush economics which pushed us over the precipice in paul krugman's column, as if a con game would drive up employment. anybody who wants to go back to that has not been living in the same short period of recent history but we are going to have to wait to see. rolling stone national political correspondent, tim dickinson,

sorry it was a brief segment. mr. vice president, we will be sticking around. thank you for joining us for the rest of the hour. the tactics used to suppress votes hit an all-time low. >> that's next on "viewpoint."

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cap >> voter suppression? not exactly what our founding fathers had in mind. the right met to block the vote. former clinton speech writer michael waldman and al gore next on viewpoint.

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>> once more around the block. voter suppression rears its head in florida again after attempting to purge voters from the state's roles, in particular's republican governor rick scott has been ordered to stop by the united states department of justice although walker says they were trying to remove non-citizens voters pounds that hispanic democratic and independent voters were the most likely to be targeted by a wide margin. the doj maintains the purn is a

violation. the 1965 voter rights act which sought to protect minority voters from discrimination as well as the 1993 voter registration act which outlaws roll maintenance within 90 days of an election. joining us is mike papintonia head of the national trial lawyers association an the brennan justice and with us al gore, thank you all for your time tonight. mr. papantonio, let me start with you. you have been involved in the litigation in florida. what is going on there. what is rick scott trying to do? and will he get away with it? >> i think the most important thing is if you are a supervise of e elections in florida right now, you have some things to confront. the u.s. justice department has told you if you are a supervisor of e elections that what you are doing by purging these rolls is illegal and to stop it immediately. >> that's the first thing you have to confront second of all, your own attorney, the very people you have hired as general

counsel to advise you statewide as to whether or not you are going to do this on is legal or not, he has told you to stop immediately. he said that for a couple of reasons. first of all, you are not complying with the law as it's written in the voters' rights act. you haven't gotten prior permission to engage in this purge, and more importantly, more importantly, governor, you have a situation where you are 90 days out. that area that you have to do this has passed. >> right. >> so with that type of information in fronts after supervisor of e elections has to be very, very cautious, especially when he knows that people have been prostituted for doing the very thing that they may be engaged with. >> mike, you have made a great opening argument. if i were a judge or jury, i would say, you know rick scott what you are doing is illegal. if you don't stop we will do something horrific to you, going to jail. it is indemic not only in florida but you at the brennan center have been fighting to protect people's voting rights.

explain why this continues to happen. >> you are exactly height, eliot eliot, that this comes on the heels of many efforts in florida and all over the country to cut back on voting rights we have seen in the last two years. it's the biggest cut back since the jim crow era. you have seen laws in state after state and in florida. there was a voting law passed last year. >> uh-huh. >> that basically cracked down on that pernicious social problem of voter registration. it imposed these. >> we want to get rid of voter registration? right? >> government policy that works. what happens is it put all of these burtens and fines and penalties on voter registration and the league of women voters, our client, you know, a well-known organization had to shut down it's entire voter registration program inoperation in particular but last week, a federal judge blocked that law and said that it was an affront to democracy and an afront to

voting rights. that's what's happening all over the country now. the waiveve of anti-voting laws is meeting stiff resistance from voters and. >> earlier you referred to alec, the right-wing group that writes legislation for business interests, pushing these voter id laws through state legislatures and now fortunately, there has been a popular uprising. how do we support those because these voter id laws are personition and they are so fundamentally anti-democratic? >> they are racist because they have aimed at african-americans and hispanic ameri

sir... excuse me, excuse me... can i get you to sign off on the johnson case... computerized roles in ♪ we built this city! ♪ state to do don't let food hang around. ♪ on rock & roll! ♪ >> if we are the nation of [ orbit trumpet plays ] technological innovation clean it up with orbit! everything from face [ ding! ] fabulous! for a good clean feeling... soft, google, ondown, when i was eat. drink. chew orbit. ag, when up, we even back then, these days, the advance of technology would be ease to do this sir... excuse me, excuse me... can i get you to sign off on the johnson case... minds to it. very quickly, why ♪ we built this city! ♪ is there a don't let food hang around. ♪ on rock & roll! ♪ to do it? >> [ orbit trumpet plays ] clean it up with orbit! kind of thing if we can [ ding! ] fabulous! the charges of for a good clean feeling... the political eat. drink. chew orbit. is the parties ought to be able to agree on and in the states, it's starting to happen and it may be some day in washington. >> ought to be able to agree on it. that means we never will. host of ring of fire and president of the national trial lawyer association, michael waldman, sir... excuse me, excuse me... can i get you to sign off on the johnson case... expertise and the vice president

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>> generaljennifer action big night out there. what do you have for us tonight. >> don't you love they arese election nights. nights. i hope we will be able to get num

right? [ laughter ] >> 46 minutes after the hour, right back on the "stephanie miller show."

>> money talks more loudly than it used to. next on viewpoint. etch-a-sketch candidate, an image where romney is anti gas.

don't miss this week's "the gavin newsom show" with special guest: hollywood icon oliver stone. >> i'm not an activist, i'm outspoken. i'm a dramatist.

>> in the post-citizens united world, we have seen the future of campaign finance, and it is ugly. the recall with the flood of super p.a.c. dollars is exhibit "a." retired supreme court justice john paul stevens has indicated current members of the supreme court may have second thoughts about their decision in the case. >> it will be necessary to explain why the first amendment provides greater protection to the campaign speech of some non-voters than to other non-voters. >> let's bring back vice president gore and michael

waldeman, from the nyu school of law. thank you for staying with us. the issue of citizenship united has turned campaign finance upside down, let loose this tsunami of money to no good effect. as a first amendment matter, the case may have been right. the consequences have been horrific. mr. vice president, what do you think we should do to solve this problem? >> well, i am afraid that it's going to require a constitutional amendment. i am fully aware of how difficult that process is. and how it should be only used as a last resort. but having looked at the legal analyses of this problem, i don't see any alternative. i don't think there are adequate signs that the members of this court are going to change their minds. i think that the majority is hard set to try to push this line of cases. justice stevens made a good point. persons who live here and work here who are citizens of another country are not allowed to make

a campaign contribution. i have no problem with that restriction. but corporations, some of them have no loyalty to this country. a lot of them do, but some of them have openly said we don't care about helping the united states. well, they are not citizens. how come they have the right to make unlimited campaign contributions? it is a horrible decision that is wrecking our democracy. >> michael, the vice president is suggesting perhaps a rule of law which only human beings could participate in the electoral process by voting obviously or by supporting candidates. is that a way out of this morass? is that a way you think could so far the problem. >> the vice president is right. >> that's one of the big problems with this decision. it may well take a constitutional amendment or at least a different doctorine or justices but in the last two years, there was another part of the decision that's proven even more immediate problematic

which was it said that there can be no corruption. >> uh-huh. >> or even the appearance of corruption from these corporate independent expenditures. >> right. that was one line in the opinion, but the lower courts and a paralyzed federal election commission have taken that. >> that's what gave us super p.a.c.s. >> that's what gave us this dystopian world we are in now where you have presidents and billionaires sponsoring presidential candidates as though they were race horses that they could proudly show off. >> and there is a chance, a chance that the supreme court is going to revisit that ruling this year. >> look. retired justice stevens who kind of is the crum you knowon of the court. we love him. he speaks truth when we don't often enough hear itedgeo of the court. we love him. he speaks truth when we don't often enough hear it. the court is looking at the miss and saying we have to cap it, as michael pointed out, the notion that this flood of money doesn't create at a minimum the appearance of corruption is a

fix. somehow we have to create a divide between the money if they are doing going to create independence and transparency see, neither of which which exist in the system. >> our system is based on one person, not $1.01 vote so that a billion air has a billion votes. >> that's just completely contrary to the american system. >> right. >> it's wrong. our democracy has been hacked to use a computer term. it is no longer working in the best interest of the average person, middle income families. it is working for the 1%, by the 1%, of the 1%. and people are waking up to this. and it's got to change. >> okay. michael, let me play devils advocate because as i said i am sim etic that if somebody has money or a corporation has money, or anybody else should be entitled to broadcast and and

articulate a view. have you distinguished in the context of the campaign where somebody such as the "new york times" editorial page wants to continue to prop pound its perspective, why is that speech not backed up by a lot of money that you would be somehow incumbering in your system. >> that distinction the reason we know you can make that decision distinction is we had that for about 100 years going back to the 'til man act past by president teddy roosevelt that said that corporations are different than natural people because they are not really people with views. they are piles of capital that exist to do something else, and it's not the same thing to just cut a check from the corporate bank account as to actually have a personal view. something like the "new york times" and these other things, there is a specific protection for freedom of the press, and again, we were able to make those distinctions just fine for years until the supreme court rather abruptly redrew those lines. >> the real answer, though, we

know money sloshes around in politics and you can't often make these parsing distanks. if we had a system of voluntary small donor public financing that matched and it may be multipleply matched those of ordinary citizens t wouldn't solve the problems, get all of the money out. it would give ordinary citizens a louder voice than they have now. >> mr. vice president, i think michael, whatever my first amendment hesitation may be you are exact right. the system of public finance, certain states have embraced if one candidate comes in, the public funding is increased by a multiple so there is some equality. do you think that could bring back sanity to our political process. >> i certainly do. every year i was in the congress, i proposed full public financing for all federal e legs. i am well aware that the odds of getting something like that passed are very low right now. but i think the more people see

of the consequences of this corrupting system we are wealth buys elections, the more we have a chance to do this. by the way elliott, this first amendment issue, you know, the corporate personhood goes back to the 1880s but it was louis powell in the 1970s who introduced this idea that corporations have first amendment rights and that's what's been expanded under citizens united into this bizarre situation where they are