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more than a decade america's biggest banks have been camscamming cities and towns out of earned interest. you may not have heard because they have this code of omerta. i don't know what it means but i heard it in "godfather ii." matt taibbi explains quote, by conspiring to lower the interest rates, the towns earn on these investments, the banks systematically stole from schools, hospitals, libraries and nursing homes from virtually every state, district and territory in the u.s. according to one settlement. and they did it so cleverly that

the victims never even knew they were being cheated. no thumbs were broken and nobody ended up in a landfill in jersey. the disappearance had a familiar name. the author matt long time fan. >> what you are talking about in terms of investments are municipal bonds? >> right. these tongues would issue bonds to borrow money for a project like building a new school or a hockey returning and wouldn't spend all of the money at once so that money would sit in accounts in an account somewhere and these banks would compete with each other through auctions to see how much they would pay by investing that money for these towns over time. >> that's what we call bid rigging. >> bid rigging. exactly. instead of competing with each other honest to deliver the highest possible rate on investments, they were conspiring with each other to

submit artificially low bids and they would earn less over time than they would have if this was done in an honest manner. >> so they are both simultaneously skimming and underpaying? >> exactly. this is incidentally pretty much exactly what the mafia has done for decades with things like garbage collection or street cleaning or laundry services or construction, anything like that. it has been going on for ages. now it has moved into the financial sector. >> it seems to me a smart democrat running for office a smart republican for office would want to shine a light on this. ? >> right. >> and talk about this is the kind of corporate crime we talk about, the stuff hurting our society. why don't we hear more about it? why aren't politicians screaming about this? >> this is one of the weirdest aspects of this case because there have been four gigantic settlement already with this story involving some of the biggest companies in the world, ubs, chase, bank of america, and they have all settled in the last couple of years and there

is a recent chile that i covered this fall. it's not like there isn't incontro vertible evidence of these crimes but for some reason, nobody wants to take up the banner on this issue and run with it. it's a very odd thing. >> so while the folks living in these cities and municipalityies were being ripped off and under sold, the real victims seem to be the people on the jury because when you look at this case i can only imagine the strategy. they must have had a tough time with thousands and thousands of documents going back over 10 years. >> this is one of the main lines for wall street in general, the infrastructure within which they commit all of these crimes is so unbelievably complicated and, also boring that it's very hard for people to pay attention. and prosecutors have been reluctant to take these cases to court because they know they have to bring jurors up this very steep learning curve with things like bond auctions and guaranteed investment contracts, all of this stuff, completely brand-new verbiage they all have to learn. so it's very hard for jurors to

learn this. to their credit in this recent trial they did and conconvicted three men involved. >> how long was the trial? >> about a month. it took them a good week and a half just to explain what the crime was. so it was a difficult slog for the juror, but they got it. >> you use a very interesting word. that word is "boring." ? >> it reminds me of the derivative scandal. we saw a couple of films, one by michael moore and one an oscarar winner. do you think eventually americans get so overwhelmed by the min yourminutia that they say, hey, i am watching card ashians. they say you have to leave it to us. if we give you a price and tell you x is the price, then you should just trust us because we are the people who understand this stuff and they made the analogy. if your refrigerator breaks you are not going to fix it yourself. you have to go to an expert to fix it. we are the experts. we are fixing this stuff. we are telling you what the price is and you have to trust

us. >> that's basically what they are saying. it's kind of sad but it's true. people do not know how to deduce their own prices for things like swaps and derivatives and guaranties. >> who is the watchdog watching out for taxpayers. >> that's what is so scary. wall street got caught in this instance. they found a company. they raided their offices, got all of the tape recordings of all of these conversations and the worst-case scenario was all of the companies involved paid slap on the wrist fines and a few mid level players will end up being convicted. but if that's the worst-case scenario and the government only catches this occasionally, why wouldn't they just see this as a cost of doing business and do it all the time. >> the wrap on dodd-frank presidential financial reform is it's so watered down dick cheney could poor it on a guy's face. is this the sort of thing, would dodd-frank dodd-frank have helped?

>> i think would more regulations help the situation? the reality is no. if people are, you know, we don't have laws that prevent people from mugging old ladies. >> that's not the reason people don't mug old ladies. we don't mug old ladies because something inside of us tells us it's not the right thing to do. this isn't legal either but we have to rely on these people to not do this. >> that's our best homepe in the future because there is no way to detect that this stuff is going on. there is no watchdog that would be able to catch this. we have to hope they behave better and they haven't. >> what about commissions? how does governor richards fit? >> this scam paid so much money created so much money that a lot of these banks and these middlemen companies doing these auctions were able to take those winnings essentially, and bribe politicians to get them to continually choose these companies to hold these auctions. and bill richardson was caught taking $25,000 from one of the companies involved cdr and in

return for that, he promised that he would keep hiring that company. that all came out in the trial. this was os tensionbly the reason why he wasn't naked commerce secretary. >> really? >> yeah. this was that scandal that kind of prevented his nomination but it kind of disappeared for a while and it resurfaced in this trial. there was a lot of ugly testimony about richardson. >> the only bright light in stories like this are journalits like you matt taibbi. thank you so much. can wall street learn from the mafia? it appears in the latest rolling stone magazine on line 2. >> yes. >> thank you for your time. it is a pleasure to meet you. thank you for your service. jack abram off will give us the insider's perspective, if obama was hershey's chocolate syrup. stir up a smile.

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[ train whistle blows ] [ ball hitting paddle ] [ orbit girl ] don't let food hang around. yeah! [ orbit trumpet ] clean it up with orbit! [ orbit glint ] fabulous! for a good clean feeling. try new orbit micro packs. >> >>. >> still to come how lobbyists have impacted the healthcare bill with jack abramoff. an entire wedding party takes a massive spill when it doesn't

fit anywhere else we've put it in the viewfinder. >> the united states supreme court has done what none of us have expected: the mandate has been struck down. there has been another recount, and george bush is president again. >> here are things you didn't know about the supreme court. here you go. get ready. number 10, for a summer promotional campaign, it's the taco bell big beef supreme court. >> i just pantwant to say thank you. >> he is such a joker. he is a joker. >> okay. >> the united states supreme court in a hotly contested decision has determined that

carly jefferson's "call me maybe" is thesol song of the summer. >> hot tommics? >> i have nothing but the best wishes in the world for my best husband. i know you sort of do too. >> aah. anyway. >> ladies and gentlemen, please welcome the president of the united states. >> i was so fired up i missed the stairs. >> most americans understand that they are ready to have a change in washington, d.c. >> let me ask you. >> in 2015. >> i hope this isn't insulting you. you are the weirdest looking person on the planet earth. >> number 3 for the last two weeks, chief justice john

roberts has been out on jury duty. >> the united states supreme court has created octuple murder-suicide to rule on obamacare. he has remained silent. >> by the way, we don't want to pick on rick berryperry. we are denying >>it's the place where democracy is supposed to be the great equalizer, where your vote is worth just as much as donald trump's. we must save the country. it starts with you. here we are on the "full court press" this tuesday, june 12th. good to have you with us. >> announcer: on your radio, on tv, the "bill press show."

new on current tv. desk top, lab top, ipad. iphone. >> pleasant your hearts. >> the big one. >> stephanie: all i know, the little flower is there and it means go to meeting. i love go to meeting.

>> in case you have been living in a cave the supreme court will decide the fate of the

affordable care act on thursday. >> that's its name. not what fox news calls it, obamacare. i have no problem with that unless you call social security f.d.r. care and tax cuts for rich guys w care then go ahead. if the sprooemz do end up knocking the affordable care act down, there may not be too much outrage. according to an nbc poll 41% think the affordable care act is a bad idea. they like the provisions in it, but that number might not have been so high had the bill included a public option, something that has polled with close to 80% approval. but the healthcare lobby would never allow a bill with a public option to pass. that really gets to the heart of the matter. see, no bill in d.c. can stand a chance without the approval of the lobbyists representing the big moneyed interests, something our next guest knows too well. mr. jack abramoff now the

author of "capital punishment" thank you for joining us and thank you for your time tonight. >> thanks john. thanks for having me. >> nice to meet you. i have been enjoying the appearances you have been making. you were not a part of lobbying for the healthcare bill or against it, but in general, how large a role would you say the healthcare lobby played in the crafting and debate of this bill? >> well, i think probably an immense role. the healthcare lobby is probably one of thethe top lobbying sectors that there is financial services maybe being up there with them and that they not only played a big role in crafting it, but in carving out for themselves at the end of it with the administration's approval and blessing some exceptions and some special perks that in fact had he end, turned them into add covocates for the bill. so it was a very strange lobbying operation. >> the american people really have no idea of the vast role lobbyists play in writing and producing our legislation.

>> no. they don't. and they shouldn't be expected to. i mean this is not something that anyone is taught in suffix or history class. what goes on washington which i describe to some degree in my book is stunning. unfortunately for me, i participated in it. it's going on even to this day. and i should also note that the healthcare lobbies, the people who are involved with healthcare ramped up immensely in 2009 when the bill was being debated and passed but they never ramped back down. there are still active there and i think they are waiting to see what happens on thursday. >> jack, that's actually interesting because the big rap on this big, the crittik is that it's socialism, socialized medicine when it's just the opposite. it obvious blings people to buy a corporation's product, a health insurance plan. so it's the exact opposite of socialism, and i am curious: does that speak to the massive role that the health insurance lobby played in this whole situation? >> well i think, by the way, most free marketiers would say

that a government forcing somebody to buy a product from a corporation fits neatly within the -- at a minimum active government involvement. >> sure. >> of course. probably tending toward socialism. it's a fact that they were able to do it just shows the power and frankly, the dexterity of the lobbyists and these companies. they know how to work the system. this is what they do. the people they hire work their entire lives in the system. they know every trick of the trade. they know how bills move how bills are stopped and the expertise, let alone, forget about the money. the expertise level alone is immense and stunning. >> you did your lobbying before the citizen united ruling which the supreme court upheld in montana. how would your lobbying career have been different if citizens united had already been in place? >> well, the sad part is i am not sure it would have been different. >> really? >> people forget that money has been coursing through this system for years. it's not just showing up. there have been hundreds of millions if not billions of dollars for years.

the special interests know exactly how to play the system whatever the rules are, before super p.a.c.s, the 527s, before them, the 501 c 4s. there is plenty of ways to get your money in. and so one of the things i am engaged in with is to close loopholes and take the special interest money out of politics. until we do this we will see this in every sector time and again. >> citizens united seemed like it was soft money on steroids. is there any hope people can take their government back that it's not all going to be bought and paid for? >> i think there is a lot of hope because, as i noticed, for the last seven months, i have been traveling the country and speaking and having my book out there and being on took talk radio. on the right and on the left i found an unbelievable thing, that people agree on these issues. they don't like the special interest, the moneyed interests, whatever they are doing, by the way, good or bad. they don't like them controlling the country. what's needed is an organized political effort with a legitimate reform bill, not one of these faux reform bills like

they are used to putting forward in washington a powerful political punch behind it, rallying. the people in this country are fed up with this. the only ones who want it live within the beltway in washington. >> you have spoken about the practice of lobbyists going after congressional staffs. rather than go for the congressman right away you would offer a lobbying career to their staff members. >> that's brilliant, i guess, in a dark kind of way. is that the practice still very common? is it still going on, jack? >> absolutely. it's completely legal. this goes on every day. ninety %. people i hired -- i had about a team of 40 lobbyits who worked for me. 90% of them came off of capitol hill. with me they were almost always staffers. yes like to hire members of congress. with some exceptions they are pretty lazy and self entitled. the staff knows what's going on, how to run the trains on capitol hill and run the show. those are the ones we hired.

>> let's say we pass a law, there is an executive order, we get rid of all lobbyists. what would happen then? would that change in any way the flu of big money in politics? >> no. by the way, i am not in favor of getting rid of all lobbyists. i think most lobbyists are good people. by the way, most people in the system are good people. the problem is the system. what we have to do is change it, take the money out, we've got to close the revolving door and if we did that finally the lobbyists are secondary. the problem is on capitol hill. >> do you believe in public financing of e elections? >> i don't think. i think it's unnecessary. i think the american people through the internet i believe in a tax credit by the way, and a voucher for every citizen to be able to participate. but i think once you get into public financing i don't think there is any chance it's going to pass in the sort of divided state that the country is in politically. and second of all as a conservative -- and i am a conservative, i don't believe having another government program is the answer to this. finally, as a former lobbyist i have to tell you what i would

have been doing, try to run people for congress across the country to make money. you have to understand how these guys think. >> well, i guess i want to but i am not sure if i do. the book is "capital punishment". the man is jack ab renal-off. it's been a pleasure. i thank you for the service you are giving the american people now. >> thank you. >> check out the book, please the veepstakes. who will win the chance to run nice to talk to you. [ applause ] >> when someone stumbles across the show, it usually doesn't end well. >> stephanie: it ended better do. all right. just a truce. all right. 45 minutes -- it was a wash. 45 minutes after the hour. right back on "the stephanie miller show."

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>> the loch ness monster is real. this will proves evolution is a myth. if you are in louisiana, you are paying to teach this to children. first, let's head west to check in with jennifer granholm in the war room. what have you got for us tonight? >> john, i want to see that segment. so in my show because we are a political junkey show we are following the money. the money campaign has gotten total, out of control. $3,000,000,000 and counting. we will unravel the insanity. we have some resolution in depression or at least a move toward it in resolving the flap over student loan interest rates. so i have got senator jack reed from rhode island on and i've also got a latino after the ron ought running for congress in california, jose hernandez

hoping to take back the house, we hope. those stories and much more at the top of the hour on the war room. >> thank you for helping us make sense of the stuff. >> i am trying. it's crazy. >> right on. >> thanks he's certifiably insane! and just signs a deal for $100 million and people listen to that crap! i just can't believe it. 1-866-55-press. your latest on glenn beck. let's talk about it. >> announcer: this is the "bill press show." live on your radio and current tv. >> school children in louisiana are to be taught that the loch loch ness monster is real and this proves the theory of evolution is false.

i know. al-qaeda is like we are trying way too hard. ace, accelerated christian education has produced a biology textbook. since we know the loch ness monster is real this proves man co exists with dinosaurs and evolution is a myth like female sexual pleasure. thousands of students can attend private christian schools that teach this loch ness monster evolution thing thanked to -- thanks to bobby jindal. i love everyone who thinks that god created a world with people hiding in the park and no problem with creationism as long as evolutionary theory is taught in bible study.

no one seems to have told these literal fundamentalists is that creationism, whether you believe it or not has absolutely nothing to do with christianity. >> that's to say nothing to do with the teachings of jesus. nor do i understand how people who follow jesus a guy who spoke in parable and metaphor have such a tough time reading the bible that way. a lot of our far right-wing friends like to worship jesus as a god because that's easier than following his extremely liberal teachers. jesus didn't care one big about who believes in talking snakes. he mentions talking snakes as often as he mentions gay people premarital sex. never. he states his priorities in a parable. he talks about separating the flock, the sheep from the goats. he thanks the sheep for feeding him, clothing him when he was poor, taking care of him when he was sick and indicating for him

when i was in prison the goats safe to assume he means fake christians who say, jesus when were you poor and hungry and sick and in prison? and christ replies: when you didn't do it for the least of my people, you didn't do it for me. and that's what christianity was supposed to be about, not calling the poor "lazy," not fighting for tax cuts for the wealthiest nazarenes, not asking lepers for a bigger co pay and not asking people to ignore science to believe in a talking snake. it is satan's nifty plot to make descriptions look silly. it has nothing to do with the teachings of jesus. it's why in 2012, america, fundamentalist christianity is the leading cause [ beads rattling ] [ male announcer ] spearmint that tingles as you chew. stimulate your senses.

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>> we are two months and one day

away from the beginning of the republican national convention and while mitt romney is already the presumptive nominee, who will be on stage with him? it's up in the air. christensenie said no and mark rubio wasn't being vetted and tim pawlenty would like to go do it but he has to get an endorsement deal from ambien and if it wasn't for portman,wlenty would be the most boring idea. now, someone who didn't want to associate themselves with george w. bush wants nothing to do with mitt romney. >> because of your experience because of your sense of resonanswer resonance, that you might be the ideal. >> i am saying there is no way that i will do this. >> when things get this confusing, we can only go to a comedian. let's bring in ground-breaking film and t.v. star lead singer of zero 1 and the a member of

stephanie miller i give you hal sparks. good evening. >> hi ya. not the least of which the third pillar, yourself, jon fugelsang. >> thank you very much. >> from the world of twitter. if you look at that running group, portman probably fits that do no harm boring guy thing that they were running a little bit ago. he would be the winner of the jimmy carter look-alike contest. he looks a bit like the foil in any 1989 s&l sketch. >> cast portman. >> they can't get a shocker. they can't get somebody who is going to, you know overhad 0 him which could be anybody with any message or worth. and then they have got to go

boring and expected. but if they go boring and expected, it's less of a win. i don't think we have actually seen the person. i don't think the person he is going to pick is on anybodyses list. i don't think they can be. >> the advantage of portman is he makes romney look like james brown but who do you think will then be his vp? >> i think it's. >> do you -- >> i think it's a nobody a next to nobody. it has to be something like line thune and portman are the closest that i think they can run. thune has that like aging robin to mitt's aging batman look like a white super duo that is a little long in the tooth. you know he is conservative and evangelical and the thick parts that go with it. but the problem is they have two tact they can go. one is you have a problem with a certain group, solve it with a

veep. rubio with latinos, nikki haley with women, the condi rice idea being floated where maybe with black people somehow. but the truth is none of them will take it because it's not that the guy has a problem connecting to those people. it's -- or those groups or interests. it's that the party he is leading is intentionally focused on disen franchising those groups. it's not an accident that he is like for some reason asians hate me. i will get an asian guy and they will know i am okay with them and it's a friendship thing. it's not that at all. it's he is spending time and the party is spending time limiting and eliminating the rights of women, latinos, african americans, any minority group gay people and so there becomes a point where none of the vp guys he can choose can solve any

of those problems because they will just be seen as turncoats by the group they are supposed to bring to the table. >> are you surprised we haven't seen a third party evangelical challenge to the governor? >> i am not even sure if we did -- if there was one we would hear it. you know what i mean? i think the moneyed interest is so big here he didn't represent any kind of religious interest. again, mitt romney is the first republican in my lifetime that we have not seen go to church in any of his candidacy. at no point in his candidacy have you seen him go to church in this round anyway that i am aware of. >> why is that? >> i think it's because of the mormon bigotry within the evangelcals. there is an element of the republican base that is turned off by the whole thing and they are hoping if they just ignore it, that it won't be a hurt. because i think he is hurt by his mormonism more in the

republican field than he ever would be in the democratic field. i think we would brush it off. >> i will tell you what mitt could choose to unite the base. mike huckabee. if the huckabee didn't hate him passionately, that would be the ticket to unite the gop base. >> is that the case of a very evangelical, leading evangelical arguably barely came in second last time around arguably there are a lot of buyer's remorse they didn't go with him over mccain in some quarters. he is very popular and likeable in that group. the problem is as an evangelical, taking second place to a mormon is that another circumstance of being like a turncoat to that particular group, or do they think it's a sign that, you know, that jesus is coming back the mormon will be a lead and the evangelicals

will magically because of becoming president that's a possibility, a thin one. i don't think they would get along. i don't see it. >> in fairness i have to say, it seems like our republican friends are coalescing. he was heaped with scorn but they seem like they have circled the wagons. i don't see any bigotry toward his faith. >> you are not seeing it. you are not seeing his faith at all. >> they want to win. >> right. >> they could have a gay atheist undocumented mexican. if that was their guy, they would get behind him? >> no. i think there are big swaths pulling away. i think you may be seeing like in the, you know, in the religious groupings within let's say, you know, catholic latinos. >> right. >> a drop-off in their numbers if you ask them: what was the thing? it's not that they are not conservative. it's not they don't have very religious value basis they think is important in a leader. it's that he is a mormon and

that's an issue. the reason is the democrats are never going to go after him for it because we really don't think it's a problem. >> right. >> for somebody to have whatever their religious faith is. >> that's why we have a muslim congressman. we have a mormon senate leader. but i think the republicans are going to have a real problem with this the minute their own base starts bringing it up. >> i think there there are comedians about you talking about it hal. we are out of time. where can people see me perform? >> with you at the psr tour the politics sex and religion tour in sants a faye next week. coming up on this? a week from friday. >> friday the 6th in santa faye. how subtle of us? >> follow psr tour on twitter and me on twitter and you on twitter. and ask questions. >> thank you, hal. always a pleasure. >> that's viewpoint. i am jon fugelsang.