Skip to main content

tv   Viewpoint With Eliot Spitzer  Current  June 28, 2012 5:00pm-6:00pm PDT

5:00 pm
john fugelsang is next with "viewpoint." everybody watch. ♪ [music] >> good evening. i am john fugelsang sitting in for eliot spitzer and this is viewpoint. thank you for joining us. it was a major victory for president obama, as you know by now and a major defeat for the conservative movement which has worked to undermine his presidency from his first day in. with a story this big, you think our friends over at xnn, fox and time would have worked harder to get it right. first, by a 5 to 4 vote and not the 5 most of us were expecting, the supreme court upheld the key provisions of the affordable care act, the act praised or
5:01 pm
damned by most as obamacare. john roberts, a george w. bush appointedee joined the liberal wing, kagan, sottomayor. so what's it all mean, mr. president? >> if you are one of the more than 250 million americans who already have health insurance, you will keep your health insurance. insurance companies can no longer impose lifetime limits on the amount of care you receive. they can no longer discriminate against children with pre-existing conditions. they can no longer drop your coverage if you get sick. they can no longer jack up your premiums without reason. they are required to provide free preventative care like check-ups and mammograms. there is more: because of the affordable care act, young adults under the age of 26 are able to stay on their parents' healthcare plans. >> really?
5:02 pm
is that all you got? >> if you are one of the 30 million americans who don't yet have health insurances starting in 2014, this law will offer you an array of quality, affordable private health insurance plans to choose from. insurance companies will no longer be able to discriminalte against any american with a pre-existing health condition. they won't be able to charge you more just because you are a woman. they won't be able to bill you into bankruptcy see. if you are sick you will finally have the same chance to get quality, affordable healthcare as everyone else. and if you can't afford the premiums, you will receive a credit that helps pay for it. >> so that means there is even home hope for unemployed americans like ann curry. the court didn't uphold all of the law. a provision expanding medicare was limited. and while the court upheld the individual mandate requiring everyone to get insurance by 2014 or as sane people call it, romneycare, it approved of it as
5:03 pm
a tax. the administration argued it should be approved under another provision. writing in his decision it is not our job to protect the people from the consequences of their political choices. that from a guy that was appointed by bush. for more on today's decision and the affordable care act we go now to dr. corey abear, ceo of black health.com and host of "doctor for the people." thank you for joining us. >> thank you for having me. >> were you surprised? did you expect an outcome like this today? >> i did not. i did not expect roberts to do what he did. but, you know, when we talk about people that have opposed this thing from the beginning, i understand their problems. it's just that they must live on mars and not live in the united states where most of us live and breathe and understand some of the problems we face as normal working americans. >> true but most of us aren't being paid by insurance companies to have the beliefs we
5:04 pm
have? >> when you start thinking about the amount of money that's being switched from hand to hand and how politicized its become, you realize people, if you ask the normal joe on the street nobody wants to be discriminated because of their pre-existing illness or have their child dropped before they are 26. nobody wants any of the things that the opponents really want. it's just it's so political now because they don't really understand because you have people that just fight and fight and fight about things that they have no idea and then they don't want to read about it and they just listen to other people and they become followers of these cults and we don't have to go into names. you know exactly who i am thinking about. >> i don't know any names but sean hannity told me that's not true. >> exactly. >> how important was this decision for poor and middle class people around the country? i would imagine poor folks are already taken care of by medicaid. what does it mean for lower mid class folks? >> between lower and middle class folks, lower and upper middle class folks, this is a
5:05 pm
really big deal. like you said, medicaid, people are going to have their insurance no matter what. but the people that oppose this the most are people that i talk to as my friends and they say, you know, well, i don't want to start paying more taxes so poor people can have healthcare. how about this, ma'am? you make $60,000 a year and pay into your insurance policy every month and you really get the great insurance. if you get breast cancer, what's going to happen to you is that you are going to have a million dollars bill. you are going to end up paying 200,000 on your 80/20 split and then they will drop you. and god forbid you get a relapse and you don't have insurance any more. then what's going to happen? you don't have the 20089 nest eg you were shaving up. now you are bankrupt. this doesn't help poor people. it helps the people the most that oppose it the most which is the dichotomy that drives me nuts. >> it seems like the insurance industry has finally, found a way to make people trying to help sick people have them be the bad guys. it seems like everyone supports everything that's in obamacare except for the obama part.
5:06 pm
>> imagine that. now, as a gennist, i investigate all of these things, you know i have radio shows, t.v. shows, the whole thing. but i practice medicine a couple of days a week and it used to be five days a week. now, it's a couple. there are several reasons why. one is because it's so hard to do what i do when i don't really have the ability and the support of the insurance companies and other entities to make -- they make it so hard for me to do my job. i mean literally when i want to get a ct scan for a patient, i have to fight people that i have never -- people that have never seen a medical school. i don't have time to be talking to these people. these are all insurance people that don't want to give me the test that i need to take care of the people that make our country work, the middle class people. when i get on the phone with the insurance company, i tell them i don't want to talk to you. be what i say and be done with it. now, i think it will be a lot closer to reality for me and practicing physicians in the united states. >> we will discuss what mitt romney said later in the show
5:07 pm
with robert reich. he said this is the government between you and your doctor. who is being left out? are there people who need affordable healthcare who won't be getting it despite the ruling today? >> the closer you get to the that magic number where you are making enough money to be happy and settled and satisfied in your life, maybe that's 90,000, maybe that's 100,000. once you start getting to that 80, 90,000 dollar mark, however, things are not helping you as much, to be very honest because things will start to cost a little bit more when you have to pay your premiums. >> that's true. but the point is that we are trying to take care of everyone here and i don't mean use the government as a crutch. >> that's not what i am trying to say. what i am trying to say is that it's not fair for everything else to be regulated. we regulate wall street. how doesgood does that work? not very good at all. airlines. we regulate everything but we don't want to regulate this insurance thing. not fair because these people are making out like fat rats and
5:08 pm
that's what this country was built on some of shows insurance scams that have permiated our society. so let's make it happen. let's be happy that obamacare happened. kudos to you. kudos to you, roberts. >> i look forwards to seeing how it evolves. always a pleasure to speak to a man who owns a set of encyclopedias. >> thank you for having me. mitt romney was one republican outraged by today's supreme court decision. he said he disagreed with the court's majority, agreed with the minority and would act to repeal obamacare on his first day in office if elected. of course, if he said he would bring back pre-existing conditions for sick children to be denied access to had beening, he might have gotten a different response. it will be interesting to see him try to repeal it on his first day in. that would require a substantial majority in the house and 60 seats in the senate. really, this is mitt romney. who is counting? who is paying attention? we are because mr. romney
5:09 pm
insisted obamacare was bad law and bad policy. >> obamacare raises taxes sot american people by approximately $500,000,000,000. obama care cuts medicare cuts medicare by approximately $500,000,000,000. obamacare as trillions to our deficits and to our national debt. obamacare also means that for up to 20 million americans, they will lose the insurance they currently have, the insurance that they like and they want to keep. obamacare is a job killer. and perhaps most troubling of all, obamacare puts the federal government between you and your doctor. >> now, we have a fact checker here, but he has a family, and it would take him weeks to check those facts. so to determine if there is any truth in mitt romney's rendition, author of "beyond
5:10 pm
outrage." what has gone wrong with our economy and our democracy and how to fix it. secretary reich, what a pleasure to have you hear this evening. >> hi, john. >> was governor romney right when he said the law raises taxes by $500,000,000,000? >> i have no idea where he got that figure. before i came to the studio, i looked up everything i could find about any legitimate study and there is nothing close to 500 billion. if you compare the cost the alleged cost of the affordable care act by romney to what we are now paying for people who go to emergency rooms who do not have any coverage, have not had any preventative care it is much greater now than even romney's nightmare. and on top of that if you look at what has happened in massachusetts, with under romneycare, you see that the same principals applied in massachusetts are being applied across the country. it will be awkward john, for
5:11 pm
romney to go on complaining about the costs and the outrages of obamacare when he and his state are the very model for the affordable care act. >> and yet, he has no problem doing that, sir. in fact, as recently as 2006, he referred to the mandate as the individual responsibility principal. >> that's what life is like when you are a human windsock. he almost sobbed when he said the healthcare act would cut medicare as opposed to what rand paul wants to do. is he right? >> no. in fact, again here is the irony. paul ryan's budget cuts a huge chunk out of medicare because it turns medicare into vouchers and the vouchers' value don't keep up with what we expect to be the increasing cost of healthcare. >> you hum. >> seniors are left. under the ryan plan seniors are left high and dry. interestingly, romney has endorsed the ryan plan. he says it's marvelous. he loves it. he is going to -- he is going to model his own medicare proposal
5:12 pm
after the ryan act. he already has. so for romney now to attack obama for taking $500,000,000,000 out of medicare when there is nothing -- by the way, nothing in the affordable care act that takes money out of medicare is ludicrous. my big concern honestly, john, is that what we are going to see, backed by huge amounts of an the romney campaign has basically been the recipient and the beneficiary of citizens united that has opened the floodgates to money from bill yon airs and millionaires. it already has started. not only against president obama but against the affordable care act, against obamacare and what we are going to get and what we are going to see for four months now is this kind of terror being created by big lies told over and over and over again about
5:13 pm
obamacare. and, you know, eventually, if big lies are told often enough people will start believing them. and that's my concern. you know, it's not that romney is telling lies. he has been telling lies for a long time. he doesn't even know what he is talking about most of the time. it's that these lies are going to be backed with very clever advertisements and some people are going to believe it. >> i want to find something positive about the governor. is he right when he says the law 2 add trillions to the deficit? it sounds like he pulled that out of his magic underwear. he said the affordable care act would shave over 120 billion off of the debt. correct? >> not only would shave those bill you don't know off of the projected debt, but one additional weigh it is going to save money is preventative care built into the affordable care act. i mean when you get that when people are able to see doctors and get preventative care they don't use the emergency rooms. that means that they are not going to impose as much of a
5:14 pm
cost on society. you know emergency rooms do not turn people away. somebody has to pay for that emergency room very johnic, very very debilitating situations by the time people have to use emergency rooms. >> yeah. >> most of the people who have looked at the affordable care act have concluded that it is going to save money. >> that's including non-partisan groups, including the congressional budget office, that if we do not do it, medical costs will continue to rise faster than they are rising right now. now, my one criticism of the affordable care act, quite honestly, john, is that i don't think it does quite enough to limit the rise of medical costs. but it does certainly more than not having it. >> exactly right. it's much better than nothing and looks like the blueprint for something wonderful a few decades down the road. i was talking with an hr professional who was excited about the act because since young people will be covered until age 26, it was inspiring
5:15 pm
firms to hire more young people because they won't have to pay. where does the governor get off calling this law a job-killer? >> the republican playbook is to call everything that the democrats want or have come up with a job killer. >> oh. >> unemployment insurance, a job killer. social security, a job killer. medicare, a job killer. the en vinementals protection act, a job killer. >> right. >> what they are all being instructed to do and this is, you know, very carefully calibrated with focus groups and all sort of marketing advice is to use the term "job killer" to anything, raising taxes on the wealthy as a job killer." raises taxes on corporations is a job killer according to republicans. you say that often enough and people begin, again, big lies. they begin thinking that democrats are job killers when the reality is just the reverse. by raising -- without raising taxes on the very rich by cutting programs for everybody
5:16 pm
else, by laying off teachers and police officers and every other government worker you can imagine, the republicans are the real job killers. >> indeed. frank luntzs writes it. mitt romney repeats it. what a pleasure. thank you for joining us this evening. coming up, how the court's decision this morning led to a day's worth of crazy on the g.o.p. side of the aisle. congress congresswoman lynn wooley will join me. this is viewpoint. bush. >> no, he was jeb bush's son. >> oh, that one. >> the ricky martin look-alike yeah. >> going in another direction. the direction away from his father.
5:17 pm
get irresistibly clean and fresh carpets in your home with resolve deep clean powder. the moist powder removes three times more dirt than vacuuming alone while neutralizing odors for a clean you can see, smell and really enjoy. don't just vacuum clean. resolve clean. break the ice with breath-freshening cooling crystals. ice breakers.
5:18 pm
[ male announcer ] don't miss red lobster's four course seafood feast, just $14.99. start with soup, salad and cheddar bay biscuits then choose one of 7 entrees plus dessert! four perfect courses just $14.99. come into red lobster and sea food differently. >> it's the year the titanic sank, woodie guthrie was born and they aredoor roosevelt quit the republican party and ran calling for universal healthcare. it's our number of the day: 1912. the past 100 years have seen a diverse array of presidents promote welfare through universal coverage. f.d.r. and lbj and nix on tried but things got complicated in his
5:19 pm
life. bill clinton made a bold play in the conservative heritage play countered by proposing a mandate for americans to buy insurance. governor romney used that mandate that he today sdpiesz. the supreme court voted today uphold the affordable care act. republicans are furious that a republican supreme court appointee just upheld a republican designed plan which will save republican lives. they wanted this thinkg to die before it could help anybody. here are things i don't like about obamacare. the long slow march to americans taking care of their own, of having the kind of universal coverage that typically gets called socialists, the kind our capitalist allies have continues and there is a lot more at stake than the fate of one man's presidency. one day we will have an america where insurance company
5:20 pm
executives can't get rich off of somebody else's disease. where your vote is worth just as much as donald trump's. we must save the country. it starts with you. ñcu >> the g.o.p. responses to this morning's supreme court ruling range from totally crazy to just a little bit off of their meds. but despite the variety of replies, the g.o.p. game plan was clear. >> i think today's ruling under scores the urgency of repealing this harmful law in its entirety. >> that's why when we return the week of july 9th, i've scheduled a vote for total repeal of the obamacare bill to occur on
5:21 pm
wednesday, july 11th. >> i am calling eric cantor's bill the agaoraphobia bill because it ain't leaving the house. and louie gohmert who decided the blame lies with elena kagan because she served as solicitor general. >> it's important to look at justice kagan for potential i am paetschment . she lied in order to get onto the court. >> denny thomas papered up clarence thomas's study with 0 peel obama wallpaper. senator rand paul had this to say: just because a couple of people on the supreme court declare something to be constitutional does not make it so. >> that's brilliant, rand. yes, a couple of people on the court would not make it couldstitutional. however, and i only went to
5:22 pm
public school here five people on the court tends to do the trick. joining us now for more on the supreme court decision we are delighted to welcome congresswoman lynn wooley from the great state of california. good evening. >> thanks for having me. >>light delightful to have you here bain or and cantor say they are going to work on repealing this as soon as the house is back in session. i work in new york. we have a lot of theater here this isn't real theater? this won't create jobs? >> no. they are serious. i mean they are going to let us enjoy the good works of the supreme court for about an hour and a half and then they came right out with july 11th, we are voting for a repeal. and they are going to keep right on because they do not want us to bring healthcare forward in this country. >> now, why do you think that is? are they afraid that once the affordable care act goes into place, americans will see that it does help their lives and it will make them look even sillier than they already look?
5:23 pm
>> i believe it has a lot to do with their friends, the insurance companies. and until we can separate ourselves from the profits of the insurance companies, one, it won't ever be affordable. and, two, members of congress, particularly on the right, are going to be beholden to them. >> absolutely. well put. now, most republicans, most humans in america actually favor the provisions in this bill. they like getting rid of pre-existing conditions. they like subsidizing families who can't afford insurance, banning insurance companies from denying children with pre-existing conditions. these are concepts long supported by our republican friends. so what's the problem? is it just the word "obama in the bill? >> well, they do want even more than the -- the republicans want obama to lose his election more than all of us in the country want the good provisions of this bill. there is no question about it.
5:24 pm
but i don't think that they are going to prevail on this. and the supreme court was the first step today. that was a great first step. >> uh-huh. >> and they actually weren't political. they responded to the people. and we can go forward with this. but, you know, john, this isn't the end-all-be-all. we have a lot of work to do to strengthen the healthcare bill. >> and i am glad you said that because you are very right. a lot of people think like we won and the game is over. this really is only the beginning of getting the kind of healthcare program our capitalist allies enjoy elsewhere. a lot are going through obamacare outrage fatigue. do you think that there is going to just be not that much passion to fight this any more now that the supreme court and george bush's prize nominee have finally, weighed in? >> i believe so. i believe that people are going to be tired of it. now, if the supreme court had
5:25 pm
voted against us against this healthcare bill, it would never be dropped through the entire election. but i -- and with romney i mean, you know, it's based on very close to what he as a governor, had in massachusetts, and he doesn't have a plan any different from what he had there in his mind to provide for anybody that might think about voting for him. so i believe that it will be behind us very shortly. >> it's very true a mandate to make people buy insurance is the governor romney campaign's pre-existing. let me ask you: we heard a second ago, rep louie gohmert, who as a fan of comedy i admire and respect. he said justice mayor should have recused himself. couldn't we say the same about clarence thomas's wife.
5:26 pm
>> justice kagan has been there long enough now that she has every right to be involved in whatever comes before the court. >> indeed. conservatives are now turning on chief justice john roberts. we are seeing people unhappy with him despite his long conservative voting record. do you think this will have any impact on future nominees to the court? are conservatives going to make sure it's got to be somebody really, really, really right-wing before they will vote for them? >> maybe, but i think that when you get on the court, there is something about being a member of the supreme court that has to add a level of responsibility for every single thing you do, that a really, really really right-wing person probably won't be able to live up to. and they they would make mistakes, too, because this is the supreme court. this is not supposed to be a political body.
5:27 pm
>> i think they got suder-bokmbed today. thank you for joining us on this historic day. >> thank you for having me. >> what a pleasure. who should republicans be blaming for the supreme court decision? not who you might think. >> that's next. people call me about this every day. my dishwasher must be broken. you know, it's not always the machine. it may be the detergent. add finish power up to boost your detergent and you'll see a huge difference. watch what it can do. look at that sparkle! now that's clean! cloudiness! spots! tough stains! even dishwasher build-up! gone! just like that! so don't give up. add finish power up. wow! see the difference! it's a must have!
5:28 pm
5:29 pm
5:30 pm
sir... excuse me, excuse me... can i get you to sign off on the johnson case... ♪ we built this city! ♪ don't let food hang around. ♪ on rock & roll! ♪ [ orbit trumpet plays ] clean it up with orbit! [ ding! ] fabulous! for a good clean feeling... eat. drink. chew orbit. >> okay. you know how when the supreme court does something you like, it's strict constitutionalist but when they do something you don't like, they are an acts visit court? we heard from the george w. bush court, the man whose time in the white house brought two wars and medicare part d, all off of the books who had us spending a billion dollars a week losing more than 4,000 weeks. cutting taxes for the wealthiest americans who needed a tax cut the least. that was a gush-up. the bush wars and tax cuts are going to account for nearly half of all american public debt in the year 2019. if you bring up how some of
5:31 pm
these bush policies are still hurting our american economy, you are going to hear your friends on the right screaming, there you go blaming bush. when are you going to stop blaming bush for bad obama decisions. your friends could say when with are we going to stop? when are you going to start blaming bush. if your captain hit the iceberg, you don't get to blame the rescue boat. we were losing 750,000a jobs a month. blaming obama is like blaming a hang over on the guy making breakfast. explain to your right-wing friends that there aren't many who blame bush for bad obama policies but i know quite a few liberals who blame obama. you could say what i say. i do blame bush. i blame george lucas for jar, jar brinks, too. the party of personal responsibility can't bring itself to take any responsibility for the bush administration spending money like courtney love her first night in amsterdam.
5:32 pm
9-11 was clinton's fault but bush gets credit for bin laden george bush is the man who put john roberts on the supreme court. chief justice roberts became the swing vote to uphold the con statedtutionalty which has god gotten him thrown off of grover norquist's christmas card list. the tea partyers are furious, this evil socialist plan that was created by republicans it was, is now the law of the land. it's all because of this activist chief justice. and that's why my friends today is really one for the history books. bush appointee john roberts managed to do something that up to today seemed impossible. he finally, got the right-wing to blame bush for something bush did. and that's my view.
5:33 pm
ever. with lysol kitchen soap hands are healthy. with lysol kitchen soap, washing dishes is easy.
5:34 pm
with lysol kitchen soap surfaces are clean. hands. dishes. surfaces. the lysol no-touch kitchen system: the only all-in-one kitchen soap. try it for yourself. lysol. mission for health. she thought allstate car insurance was out of her reach. until she heard about the value plan. see how much you could save with allstate. are you in good hands? >> coming up, we talk about the sad as far as, fast and furious and sheila jackson lee discusses
5:35 pm
how the first african-american attorney general was voted to be in contempt. first, an omage in da-viewfinder. >> we have breaking news here on the fox news channel, the individual mandate has been ruled unconstitutional. >> we are still going through the reading of the opinion but i want to bring the breaking news according to producer bill nears, the individual mandate is not a valid -- not a valid exercise of the commerce clause. it appears as if the supreme court justices have struck down the individual mandate. >> the individual mandate cannot be sustained under congress's power to regulate commerce. that means the mandate is gone. >> the justices throwing that out is a direct flow to the president of the united states, a direct blow to his democratic party. this is a victory.
5:36 pm
>> individual mandate is surviving as a tax. this is not confirmed by us. >> we are getting conflicting information on what leads us up to that. let's take a deep breath and see what the justices actually decide. it may be a little bit more complicated than initially thought. >> be cautious. we are trying to do the best we can as we sort through it. it may take -- >> it may be not correct right now. >> it may take several minutes. >> on a second read, chief justice john roberts delivered the opinion of the court with respect to part 3 that is the individual mandate concluding that the individual mandate may be upheld. >> we are getting going without is not -- hey. and then we get into even more complicated language on the spending clause. >> reading through this again, we are reading now that the entire law has been upheld. we are reading through this to
5:37 pm
see how the counts -- how the vote count went within the justices because it looks like there are a lot of different, concurring and pluralalties here it looks like the entire healthcare law, including the individual mandate has been upheld. >> the question is has the individual mandate been upheld? it appears the answer is the law will stand. >> i am telling you you can trust current tv. believe me. the contempt vote on eric holder representative sheila jackson lee on who really deserves that contempt: next!
5:38 pm
if you have copd like i do you know how hard it can be to breathe and what that feels like. copd includes chronic bronchitis and emphysema. spiriva helps control my copd symptoms by keeping my airways open a full 24 hours. plus, it reduces copd flare-ups. spiriva is the only once-daily inhaled copd maintenance treatment that does both. and it's steroid-free. spiriva does not replace fast-acting inhalers for sudden symptoms. tell your doctor if you have kidney problems glaucoma, trouble urinating, or an enlarged prostate. these may worsen with spiriva.
5:39 pm
discuss all medicines you take, even eye drops. stop taking spiriva and seek immediate medical help if your breathing suddenly worsens your throat or tongue swells you get hives, vision changes or eye pain, or problems passing urine. other side effects include dry mouth and constipation. nothing can reverse copd. spiriva helps me breathe better. does breathing with copd weigh you down? ask your doctor if spiriva can help. >> today for the first time in the history of america, your attorney general was found in contempt of congress. but the vote, itself, took a back seat to surroundingents as republicans tried to convince everyone that this was something more than a crass political powerplay. >> no justice department is above the law, and no justice department is above the constitution.
5:40 pm
>> there is no joy in today's action. >> has been in contempt, is in contempt and is showing contempt for the congress. [now, we are nearing an election and we don't want to have this during an election. we want to have resolution for the terri family. >> after two hours of debate it was finally, time to vote. before a vote could be taken, led by the democratic members of the congressional black caucus over 100 house democrats marched out of the chamber in protest, a site not seen since the days of the clinton i ammpeachimpeachm. outside, the democrats spoke about the sham vote. >> we did not want to participate in something that we believe to have some kind of smell to it. >> that's why we are here in this courtyard to say to our republican colleagues: shame on you >> shame on you. >> shame on you. shame on you. shame on you. >> joining us now is one of thosemez who walked out in protest from the great state of
5:41 pm
texas, representative sheila jackson lee, member of the house judiciary committee. thank you for your time tonight. >> john, thank you so very much for really what is a sad day, both in terms of the history of the united states of america and the history of this congress, a body that throughout the world has been held as the most powerful law-making body in the world and a body that ex used -- exudes character and integrity and today we lost that integrity and character. >> were you surprised? >> i wouldhad hold over the days and weeks of which this saga was continuing that the chairman oversight committee would come to a point where he would work with the senate the ranking member with the attorney general and do as general french did under the reagan administration when he spoke and said that when
5:42 pm
these issues come up we try to work with both the executive and the legislature, both tried to determine what they can yield and they do so in the comedy and the collegiality of a democratic government. i thought that we would have that kind of spirit. tragically, we did not. john, i want to say something else. >> please do. >> because i think it is important. i live on the texas boarder. i live near the boardrder. i say that. houston is in the southern part of the united states of america. in my early career, as a member of the homeland security committee, i went to the border to visit the border patrol agents, way before the unique funding that they have received and the new technology that they have been able to gain. i have seen how hard their work is. i was on the border in the dark of night. none of what happened today gives dignity or response to the tragedy of the loss of brian terri. i would not be so arrogant to suggest that i could speak to his family because the loss of a loved one is unspeakable.
5:43 pm
but what i will say today is that can: can anyone in america even believe, even fathom that any member of congress is not saddened democrat or republican or independent, house ornate is not saddened by the loss of a public serveant, a first responder in the line of duty. every one of us are pained about this but today, the shameless attempt to intertwine the tragedy of this lost soul to the heinous and unfathomable decision to hold in contempt for the first time in the history of the united states of america a cabinet officer who willingly provided 7,600 documents is unbelievable and really, i think that is the shame of it all because we really wanted to find a way to have common ground. i walked out because i want the history books to report even though in my heart i wanted to
5:44 pm
see that big end, but i want the history books to report that there were a group of members who held this congress in such highest e-mail that we could not in good conscience participate in what is a tragic witch hunt that happened today. >> thank you for en voccing the memory of agent terri. y. thousands of americans are shocked. were you surprised so many other house democrats chose to walk out with the congressional black caucus? >> it was a very emotional moment. and i will tell you that the members decided on their own con conscience. there was debate and discourse in our caucus meeting. every member was allowed to speak their heart, and there were members who were on the committee and not on the committee, who are appalled obviously, at the violence on the border that all of us are
5:45 pm
appalled at, the drug car tells, the human trafficking that we see even in houston, and so they knew how serious this was. but they realized that general holder, who has and in front of a number of committees, including mine. by the way, he was again questioned just about 10 weeks to two weeks ago about this, and he said, i am calm today. i am willing to do anything i can to get to the bottom of this by the . by the way an incidents that started under the bush administration but through an article that has just come out has determined there were many other factors that did not allow this to come to its rightful end, one, of course, the abuse of the individuals that were involved directly in it, the lack of information that came to the department of justice, a lot of factors but they know for a fact, meaning the members, knew for a fact that this was the inappropriate tool to use against the attorney general of the united states who had given
5:46 pm
7,600 pages already and had offered to sit down face to face with the chairman of the committee and go over documents and give his opinion or his answer as to why some documents could be presented and some could not. does anyone know that we are in the middle of a criminal investigation and, in actuality we may be impeding that through the actions of today? >> indeed. i thank you for it. we are almost out of time. i want to ask you about one comment made by iemanuel cleaver. would you elaborate? >> i want to say to the american public that we criedpride ourselves in being americans in the greatest country in the world. and one of our colleagues said that it was an issue that reached the hearts of people no matter what racial background they were engaged in. i know that the chairman suggested or in his words -- and
5:47 pm
i don't want to speak for him -- that there was something funny about what is going on. there is something funny about why the chairman refused to sit down with the general of the united states on an extended basis as others have done as this is the first african-american attorney general in the united states of america. now, let me be very clear. an individual who comes with credentials beyond what his racial background is, from being a judge to a u.s. attorney to the acting attorney general under the bush administration and the deputy attorney general and now the attorney general of the united states of america who has been -- who has been one of the strongest proponeevents of allowing, no matter what american you are, what viewpoint you may have one vote, one person, so i think the chairman is saying: is it because of the uniqueness of the way that this general has fought so hard to overcome voter oppression and suppression? is it because the general has
5:48 pm
recognized the history of those who have been denied opportunity in this nation? and the many cases that he has taken up and revitalized the civil rights division? is it that reason that all of the sudden he becomes the eye. storm? not his actions but just the fact that he has been a vigorous supporter and proponent of justice and equality for all. it smells and i think chairman emanuel cleaver was astute in his comments. something smells. today, it wasn't a pretty smell. i hope we can get back to being a congress that respects the integrity of all. i am saddened for general holder. let me say this. general holder, don't you resign. don't even think about it. in fact, hold your head up high because you have been the kind of individual that has given credibility and respect to the office of attorney general of the united states of america. >> i don't see him resigning any time soon and on this very historic day it was most
5:49 pm
inspiring to see the congressman's real outrage. sheila jackson lee of texas, thank you for coming on the program. thank you for your continued service. >> thank you, john, for having me. >> of course. with all of this, the atm never purposely let guns into mexico even though everyone on fox news and am room said they did. we have the writer who came up with that story coming up >>it's the place where democracy is supposed to be the great equalizer, where your vote is worth just as much as donald trump's. we must save the country. it starts with you. >> now i get to check in with jennifer granholm. what's in the war room tonight?
5:50 pm
>> john, we are going to be continuing your coverage of today's two historic decisions in washington. what we will focus on are the two different paths of leadership. we will look at the stamp that chief justice roberts put on his court an especially looking forward. we have bur witt from the beep partisanship. attorney generaleric holder. a congresswoman who walked out of the vote. >> i'm sorry you had such a slow news day, governor. >> i know. it's a great day to be doing these shows. >> more "viewpoint" coming up next.
5:51 pm
5:52 pm
>> earlier, we discussed how
5:53 pm
today the house voted 255 to 67 to hold attorney general eric holder in contempt. you heard representative sheila jackson lee talking about it but a greater concern is the role that distortions and sometimes outright lies played in the congressional investigation of fast and furious. cath catherine eburn, her piece about the fast and furious scandal. thank you for your time. it's a pleasure to have you here. >> thank you for having me. >> congrats on the piece. i hope you win many many awards for it. in your investigation, what was the biggest difference you found between what the republicans have been shouting at us and what actually happened with fast and furious? >> the fact that the atf had no operational tactic to walk guns and that is the claim of the entire congressional investigation, that there was a plot to allow guns into the hands of the mexican drug cartels.
5:54 pm
my reporting is showing that that is not the case. >> and that guns did not actual cross the border? >> guns did cross the border but those were guns that prosecutors told the agents they did not have probable cause to seize. >> we quoted your article last night because it goes into great depth about how some atf investigators and agents felt really left out and felt like they were left out to dry by the toothless laws they are trying to enforce. they couldn't stop these guns from walking. why can't we get any serious laws passed to help these guys on the front lines? >> everything in our culture right now from the nra to the congress is militating against stronger gun laws and, in fact one of the certainthey havee theories they have put fart is that fast and furious was a plot to give the guns to the mexican drug cartels to show how messed up everything is and impose stronger gun laws. i say in the article there does
5:55 pm
not appear to be any evidence to support that. >> despite the fact that the democratic party has dropped gun control and if that's their logic to let the government swoop arrest and take away their guns, they have been trying for the last 30 years, fighting them complaining about a lack of gun laws. it's astonishing. >> the assault weapons ban has lapsed. in arizona, for example, if you are 18 and you have no criminal record, you are not even old enough to buy beer you can go into a gun dealership and by 50 aka-47s. >> project gun runner band under attorney general makasey. he havel. our friends on the right are saying there is nothing in common with these two compressions because the main distinction they draw, in wide receiver the mexican government was always fully aware of what was going on. that was not the case in fast and furious. do our republican friends make a good point on that? >> well, they are right.
5:56 pm
but they are right for a different reason. there was an operational actic to walk guns in operation wide receiver. but to track them, there was no operational tactic to walk guns and the statistics show the atf acts seized every gun they were able to. >> under wide receiver. >> under fast and furious hundreds of guns were seized. of the 2,045 guns that have claimed to have been walked, either guns that were in the suspect gun database these are guns that atf acts identified the cereal numbers, idea had the sale to suspects entered them into a suspect gun data base 75% of those guns this is didn't surveil. they didn't know about the purchase until after the fact. among those guns that they didn't even know about, had no
5:57 pm
way to prevent, were the guns that were found at the murder site of border agent terry. >> the house oversight committee released a statement calling your piece fantasy. so unsubstantiated these are about gun snatching or reality, talking people on the ground was fantasy. were you surprised they knocked down your reporting so quickly? >> no. i am not surprised. they have been offering up the information that they offered to me to journalists for over a year. i am, i think, one of the first if not the first journalist who did not accept what they were saying as fact. >> can you stay with us to continue this question on the website? >> sure. >> terrific. >> that's view"viewpoint" for tonight. check out the website. there is a lot more coming with catherine eban there. it's a pleasure to fill in for governor spitzer. stay for the war
5:58 pm
5:59 pm