. >> stephanie: whatever! happy debate night everybody. we'll see you tomorrow on our regular edition of the talking liberally "the stephanie miller show"." [ ♪ theme music ♪ ] here we'll have the real dee bait beginning in a mere 3 seconds stay right here. ♪ >> eliot: welcome back. it is politically direct current tv's coverage of the second presidential debate. i'm joined here by governor jennifer granholm, two-term governor of michigan. i always say the best speaker at the democratic convention. she stirred the audience and our own john fuglesang whose great show will be beginning shortly. so in a minute and less, we'll have the opening bell. jennifer, what do you expect to see the president do to show he's in command he's in charge. >> jennifer: i think he will speak with clarity about the

differences between him and mitt romney. i think he will bring it home with optimism and passion. >> john: i think the president needs to show he's more comfortable around humans. this is the forum to do it. >> eliot: tonight will be about differences and contrast. if there was a word in the last debate, it was convergence. the president seemed to be malleable. >> jennifer: mitt romney was malleable. president can't allow him to do it. >> john: mitt romney has to be better than last time. if he plateaus, it is not a win for him. >> eliot: everybody looks at him and expects a super human performance. whether he can match that, who knows. town hall performance that makes it harder. you have to interact with the question of real people. that dynamic has to be navigated. let's join candy crowley cnn's own moderator. >> good evening from hofstra university in hempstead new york. i'm candy crowley from cnn state of the union.

we're here for the second presidential debate, a town hall sponsored by the commission on presidential debate. the gallup organization chose 82 uncommitted voters from the new york area. their questions will drive the night. my goal is to give the conversation direction and to ensure questions get answered. the questions are known to me and my team only. neither the commission nor the candidates have seen them. i hope to get to as many questions as possible and because i am the optimistic sort, i'm sure the candidates will oblige by keeping their answers concise and on point. each candidate has as much as two minutes to respond to a common question and there will be a two-minute follow-up. the audience here in the hall has agreed to be polite and attentive, no cheering or booing or outbursts of any sort. we will set aside that agreement just this once to welcome president barack obama and governor mitt romney. [ applause ]

>> gentlemen, thank you both for joining us here tonight. we have a lot of folks waiting all day to talk to you. so i want to get right to it. governor romney, as you know, you won the coin toss. the first question will go to you. i want to tourn a first-time voter. jeremy epstein who has a question for you. >> mr. president, governor romney, as a 20-year-old college student, all i hear from professors neighbors and others is that when i graduate i will have little chance to get employment. what can you say to reassure me but more importantly my parents i will be able to sufficiently support myself after i graduate? >> romney: thank you jeremy. i appreciate your question and thank you for being here this

evening and to all of those from nassau county, thank you for your time and thank you to hofstra university and to candy crowley for leading this event. thank you, mr. president, also for being part of this debate. your question is one that's being asked by college kids all over this country. as in pennsylvania with someone who just graduated. this was in philadelphia. she said i've got my degree. i can't find a job. i've got three part-time jobs. they're just barely enough to pay for my food and pay for an apartment. i can't begin to pay back my student loans. what we have to do is two things. make sure we make it easier for kids to afford college and make sure that when they get out of college, there is a job. when i was governor of massachusetts, to get a high school degree, you had to pass an exam. if you graduated in the top quarter of your class we gave. >> john and abigail adams scholarship. four years tuition free to the college of your choice in massachusetts. it is a public institution. i want to make sure we keep our pell grant program growing.

we'll also have our loan program so that people are able to afford school. what's happened over the last four years has been hard for america's young people. i want you to be able to get a job. i know what it takes to get this economy growing. with half of kids graduating without a job and without a college level job that's unacceptable. likewise, you've got more and more debt on your back. more debt and less jobs. i will change that. i know what it takes to make sure you have the kind of opportunity you deserve. kids across this country will recognize we're bringing back an economy. it won't be like the last four years. jobs have been too scarce. i know what it takes to bring them back. i'm going to make sure -- when do you graduate? 2014. when you come out in 2014, i presume i will be president. i make sure you get a job.

thanks jeremy. you bet. >> mr. president. >> jeremy, first of all your future is bright and the fact that you're making an investment in higher education is critical not just to you but to the entire nation. the most important thing we can do is to make sure that we are creating jobs in this country but not just jobs, good-paying jobs. ones that can support a family. and what i want to do is build on the five million jobs that we've created over the last 30 months in the private sector alone and there are a bunch of things that we can do to make sure your future is bright. number one i want to build manufacturing jobs in this country again. when governor romney said we should let detroit go bankrupt, i said we're going to work on american workers and american auto industry and it has come surging back. i want to do that in industries not just in detroit but across the country. we change our tax code so we're

giving incentives to companies investing here in the united states and creating jobs here. it also means we're helping them and small businesses to export all around the world in new markets. number two we've gotta make sure that we have the best education system in the world and the fact that you're going to college is great. but i want everybody to get a great education. we've worked hard to make sure that student loans are available for folks like you. i want to make sure community colleges are offering slots for workers to be retrained. the jobs of the future. number three, we have to control our own energy. not only oil and natural gas which we've been investing in but also we've gotta make sure we're building the energy source of the future. not just thinking about next year but ten years from now 20 years from now. that's why we invest in solar wind and biofuels, energy efficient cars. we have to reduce our deficit but do it in a balanced way. asking the wealthier to pay more o so we can invest in education

like yours. let's take the money we've been spending on war over the last decade to rebuild america. roads, bridges schools. we do those things, not only is your future going to be bright but america's future is going to be bright as well. >> we're looking at a situation where 40% of the unemployed have been unemployed for six months or more. what about those long-term unemployed who need a job right now? >> romney: what you're seeing in this country is 23 million people struggling to find a job. and a lot of them, as you say candy have been out of work for a long time. the president's policies have been exercised over the last four years. and they haven't put americans back to work. we have fewer people working today than we had when the president took office. if the unemployment rate was 7.8% when he took rate, it is 7.8% now.

but if you calculated that unemployment rate taking back the people who dropped out of the work force, it would be 10.7%. we have not made the progress we need to make to put people back to work. that's why i put in a five-point plan that gets america 12 million new jobs in four years and rising take-home pay. it will help jeremy get a job. it will help people across the country that are unemployed right now. one thing the president said with i want to make sure we understand. he said -- i said we should take detroit bankrupt. my plan was to have the company go through bankruptcy like slevin did and macey's and -- 7-eleven and macey's and come out stronger and i know -- he want -- the president took detroit bankrupt. you took general motors bankrupt. you took chrysler bankrupt. so when you say that i wanted to take the auto industry bankrupt, you actually did.

that was a process necessary to of so they could start hires more people. that was precisely what i recommended and ultimately what happened. >> let me give the president a chance. >> candy, what governor romney said just isn't true. he wanted to take them into bankruptcy without providing them any way to stay open. we would have lost a million jobs. and don't take my word for it. take the executives at g.m. and chrysler, some of whom are republicans. may even support governor romney. but they'll tell you his prescription wasn't going to work. governor romney says he's got a five-point plan. governor romney doesn't have a five-point plan. he has a one-point plan and that plan is to make sure that folks at the top play by a different set of rules. that's been his philosophy in the private sector, that's been his philosophy as governor and that's been his philosophy as a presidential candidate. you can make a lot of money and pay lower tax rates than somebody who makes a lot less. you can ship jobs overseas and

get tax breaks for it. you can invest in a company bankrupt it, strip away their pensions and you still make money. that's exactly the philosophy that we've seen in place for the last decade. that's what's been squeezing middle class families. and we have fought back for four years to get out of that mess. the last thing we need to do is to go back to the very same policies that got us there. >> governor romney, there will be plenty of chances. you simply will have lots of time here coming up. i want to move you on to something that is sort of connected to cars here. and go over -- and we want to get a question from bill.

>> secretary has been on record three times state it is not policy of his department to help lower gas prices. do you agree with secretary that this is not the job of the energy department? >> obama: the most important thing we can do is to make sure we control our own energy. here's what i've done since i've been president. we've raised oil production to the highest levels in 16 years. natural gas production is the highest it's been in decades. we have seen increases in coal production. and coal employment. but what i've also said is we can't just produce traditional source of energy. we've also gotta look toward the future. we doubled fuel efficiency standards on cars which means in the middle of the next decade, any car you buy you're going to end up going twice as far on a gallon of gas. that's why we've doubled clean energy production like wind and solar and biofuels and all of these things have contributed to

us lowering our oil imports to the lowest levels in 16 years. i want to build on that. that means yes we still continue to open up new areas for drilling. we continue to make it a priority for us to go after natural gas. we've got potentially 600,000 jobs and 100 years' worth of energy right beneath our feet. we can do it in an environmentally sound way. we have continue to figure out how we have efficient energy because ultimately that's how we're going to reduce demand and that's what's going to keep gas prices lower. governor romney will say he's got an all of the above plan but basically his plan is to let the oil companies write the energy policies. so he's got oil and gas part but he doesn't have the clean energy part. if we're only thinking about tomorrow or the next day and not

thinking about ten years from now. we're not going to control our own economic future because china, germany they're making these investments. i expect those new energy sources to be built right here in the united states. that's going to help jeremy get a job and also make sure that you're not paying as much for gas. >> romney: well, let's look at the president's policies as opposed to the rhetoric because we've had four years of policies being played out. the president's right in terms of the additional oil production but none of it came on federal land. as a matter of fact, oil production is down 14% this year on federal land and gas production is down 9%. why in because the president cut in half the number of licenses and permits for drilling on federal lands and in federal waters. so where did the increase come from? a lot of it came from the range in north dakota. what was his participation

there? the administration brought a criminal action against the people drilling up there for oil. this massive new resource we have. what was the cost? 20 or 25 birds were killed. they brought out a migratory bird act to go after a criminal basis. i want to make sure we use our oil, our coal, our gas. our nuclear our renewables. i believe very much in our renewable capabilities, ethanol wind, solar will be an important part of the mix. what we don't need is the about the to keep us from taking advantage of oil coal and gas. this has not been mr. oil or mr. gas or mr. coal. talk to the people that are working in those industries. i was in coal country. people grab my arms and say please, save my job. the head of the e.p.a. says you can't build a coal plant. you'll -- it is virtually impossible given our regulations. when the president ran for office, he said if you build a coal plant, you can go ahead but you'll go bankrupt. that's not the right course for

america. let's take advantage of the energy resources we have as well as the energy sources for the future. and if we do that, if we do what i'm planning on doing which is getting us energy independent north america energy independence within eight years you're going to see manufacturing jobs come back because our energy is low cost. there are already jobs ready to come back because of our abundance of energy. i'll get america and north america energy independent. i'll do it by more permits and licenses. we'll bring the pipeline in from canada. how in the world the president said no to that pipeline, i will never know. this is about bringing good jobs back for the middle class of america. and that's what i'm going to do. >> mr. president let me see if i can move you to the gist of this question. which is are we looking at the new normal. i can tell you that tomorrow morning, a lot of people will wake up and they'll find that the price of gas is over $4 a gallon. is it -- is it within the purview of the government to

bring those prices down or are we looking at the new normal? >> obama: candy, there's no doubt that world demand's gone up but our production is going up and we're using oil more efficiently. and very little of what governor romney just said is true. we've opened up public lands. we're actually drilling more on public lands than in the previous administration. and the previous president was an oil man. and natural gas isn't just appearing magically. we're encouraging it. and working with the industry. and when i hear governor romney say he's a big coal guy. keep in mind when governor -- governor of massachusetts, you stood in front of a coal plant and pointed at that time and said this plant kills. and took great pride in shutting it down. and now suddenly you're a big champion of coal. so what i've tried to do is be consistent. with respect to something like coal, we made the largest investment in clean coal technology to make sure that

even as we're producing more coal, we're producing it cleaner and smarter. same thing with oil. same thing with natural gas. and the proof is our oil imports are down to the lowest levels in 20 years. oil production is up. natural gas production is up. and most importantly we're also starting to build cars that are more efficient. and that's creating jobs. that means those cars can be exported because that's the demand around the world. and it also means that it will save money in your pocketbook. that's the strategy to meet on all of the above strategies. that's what we're going to do in the next four years. >> romney: but that's not what you've done in the last four years. that's the problem. in the last four years you've cut permits and licenses on federal land and federal waters in half. >> obama: not true governor romney. not true. >> romney: by how much did you cut them by? >> obama: we've produced more oil. >> romney: by how much? >> obama: governor romney, here's what we did. there were a whole bunch of oil

companies -- >> romney: i had a question. >> obama: you want me to answer a question. i'm happy to answer the question. >> romney: and it is -- >> obama: here's what happened. you had a whole bunch of oil companies who had lease on public lands that they weren't using. so what we said was you can't just sit on this for ten 20, 30 years. , decide when you want to drill when you want to produce. when its's most profitable for you. these are public lands so if you want to drill on public lands you use it or you lose it. that's what we did was take away those leases and we're now reletting them so we can make a profit. >> romney: production on lands is down. >> obama: no, it isn't. >> romney: production is down 14%. production on gas is down 9%. >> obama: that's not true. >> romney: it is true. no question the people recognize we have not produced more oil and gas on federal lands. and with federal waters and coal production is not up. coal jobs are not up. i was just at a coal facility

where some 1200 people lost their jobs. the right course for america is to have a true all of the above policy. i don't think anyone really believes that you're a person who will be pushing for oil and gas and coal. you'll get your chance in a moment. i'm still speaking. the answer is i don't believe people think that's the case -- that wasn't a question. that was a statement. i don't think the american people believe that. i will fight for oil coal and natural gas and the proof -- the proof of whether the strategy is working or not is what the price is that you're paying at the pump. if you're paying less than you paid a year or two ago why then the strategy is working. but you're paying more. when the president took office, the price of gasoline here in nassau county was $1.86 a gallon. now it is $4 a gallon. price of electricity is up. if the president's energy policies are working, you'll see the cost of energy come down. i will fight to create more energy in this country to get america energy secure and part of that is bringing in a pipeline of oil from canada,

taking advantage of the oil and coal we have here. drilling offshore in alaska. drilling offshore in virginia where the people want it. those things will get us the energy we need. >> mr. president, could you address because we did finally get the gas prices here. could you address what the governor said which is if your energy policy was working the price of gasoline would not be $4 a gallon here. >> obama: think about what the governor just said. when i took office, the price of gasoline $$1.86. why is that? because the economy was on the verge of collapse. because we were about to go through the worst recession since the great depression. as a consequence, of some of the same policies that governor romney is now promoting. so it is conceivable that romney could bring down gas prices because with his policies we might be back in the same mess. what i want to do is to create an economy that is strong and at the same time produce energy and

with respect to this pipeline that governor romney keeps on talking about we build enough pipeline to wrap around the entire earth once. so i'm all for pipelines. i'm all for oil production. what i'm not for is us ignoring the other half of the equation. so, for example on wind energy, when governor romney says these are imaginary jobs, when you've got thousands of people right now in iowa, right now in colorado, who are working creating wind power. with good-paying manufacturing jobs and the republican senator in iowa is all for it, providing tax -- to help this work. governor romney says i'm opposed. i would get rid of it. that's not an energy strategy for the future. we need to win the future. i intend to win it as president of the united states. >> the next question for you. >> he got the first question so i get the last answer. >> actually, in the follow-up it

doesn't quite work like that. but i'm going to give you a chance here, i promise you. i'm going to. the next question is for you so if you want to continue on -- but i don't want to leave all of these guys sitting here. >> romney: candy, i don't have a policy of stopping wind jobs in iowa. they're not phantom jobs. they're real jobs. >> okay. >> romney: i appreciate wind jobs in iowa and across our country. i appreciate the jobs in coal. and oil. and gas. i'm going to make sure -- >> okay, thank you. >> romney: energy resources will bring back manufacturing to america. we're going to get through a very aggressive energy policy, three and a half million more jobs in this country. it is critical to our future. >> obama: candy, you are being interrupted. >> i need to move you both along. all of these folks that have been waiting. governor, this question is for you. it comes from mary polona. >> governor romney, you have stated that if you're elected president, you would plan to reduce the tax rates for all of

the tax brackets and that you would work with the congress to eliminate some deductions in order to make up for the loss in revenue. concerning these various deductions, the mortgage deduction, the charitable deductions the child tax credit and also the -- what's the other credit -- i forgot. >> obama: you're doing great. >> oh, i remember, the education credits which are important to me because i have children in college -- what would be your position on those things which are important to the middle class. >> romney: thank you very much. and let me tell you you're absolutely right about part of that which is i want to bring the rates down. i want to simplify the tax code and i want to get middle income taxpayers to have lower taxes. and the reason i want middle income taxpayers to have lower taxes is because middle income taxpayers have been buried over the past four years. you've seen as middle income

people in this country incomes go down $4,300 a family. even as gasoline prices have gone up $2,000. health insurance premiums up $2,500. food prices up. utility prices up. the middle income families in america have been crushed over the last four years. so i want to get some relief to middle income families. that's part one. now, how about deductions because i'm going to bring rates down across the board for everybody. but i'm going to limit deductions and exemptions and credits, particularly for people at the high end because i am not going to have people at the high end pay less than they're paying now. the top 5% of taxpayers will continue to pay 60% of the income tax the makes collects. that will stay the same. middle income people are going to get a tax break. and so -- in terms of bringing down deductions, one way of doing that would be to say everybody gets -- i'll pick a number $25,000 of deductions and credits. you can decide which ones to

use. home mortgage interest deduction, charity child tax credit so forth. you can use those as part of filling the bucket, if you will, of deductions but your rate comes down and the burden also comes down on you for one more reason. and that is every middle income taxpayer no longer will pay any tax on interest dividends or capital gains. no tax on your savings. that makes life a lot easier. if you're getting interest from a bank. if you're getting a statement from a mutual fund or any other kind of investment you have, you don't have to worry about filing taxes on that because there will be no taxes for anybody making $200,000 a year and less on your interest dividends and capital gains. why am i lowering taxes on the middle class? because under the last four years, they've been buried. i want to help people in the middle class and i will not i will not under any circumstances, reduce the share that's being paid by the highest income taxpayers and i will not under any circumstances

increase taxes of the middle class. the president's spending, the president's borrowing will cause this nation to have to raise taxes on the american people. not just at the high end, a recent study has shown that people in the middle class will see $4,000 a year higher taxes as a result of the spending and borrowing of this administration. i will not let that happen. i'll get us on track to a balanced budget and i'm going to reduce the tax burden on middle income families. what's that going to do? it will help the families and create incentives to start growing jobs again in this country. >> thanks, governor. >> obama: my philosophy on taxes has been simple. i want to give middle class families and folks who are striving to get in the middle class some relief. because they have been hit hard over the last decade. over the last 15, over the last 20 years. so four years ago i stood on a stage just like this, at a town hall said i would cut taxes for middle class families.

i have done that by $3600. i said i would cut taxes for small businesses who are the drivers and engines of growth. we've cut them 18 times. and i want to continue those tax cuts for middle class families and for small businesses. but what i've also said is if we're serious about reducing the deficit, if this is genuinely a moral obligation to the next generation, then in addition to some tough spending cuts, we've also gotta make sure that the wealthy do a little bit more. so what i've said is your first $250,000 worth of income, no change. and that means 98% of american families 97% of small businesses, they will not see a tax increase. i'm ready to sign that bill right now. the only reason it's not happening is because governor romney's allies in congress have held the 98% hostage because they want tax breaks for the top 2%.

but what i've also said is for above $200,000, we go back to the tax cuts we had when bill clinton was president. we created 23 million new jobs. that's part of what took us from deficits to surplus. it will be good for our economy and it will be good for job creation. now, governor romney has a different philosophy. he was on "60 minutes" just two weeks ago and he was asked is it fair for somebody like you making $20 million a year to pay a lower tax rate than a nurse or a bus driver, somebody making $50,000 a year? and he said yes i think that's fair. he said i think that's what grows the economy. i fundamentally disagree with that. i think what grows the economy is when you get that tax credit that we put in place for your kids going to college. i think that grows the economy. i think what grows the economy is when we make sure small businesses are getting a tax credit for hiring veterans who

fought for our country. that grows our economy. so we just have a different theory and when governor romney stands here after a year of campaigning, when during a republican primary he stood on stage and said i'm going to give tax cuts -- he didn't say tax rate cuts, said tax cuts to everybody including the top 1%, you should believe him. because that's been his history. and that's exactly the kind of top-down economics that is not going to work if we want a strong middle class and an economy that's thriving for everybody. >> governor romney, i'm sure you've got a reply there. [ laughter ] >> you're absolutely right. you heard what i said about my tax plan. the top 5% will continue to pay 60% as they do today. i'm not looking to cut taxes for wealthy people. i'm looking to cut taxes for middle income people. and why do i want to bring rates down and at the same time lower exemptions and particularly for people at the high end? because if you bring rates down, it makes it easier for small

business to keep more of their capital and hire people. and for me, this is about jobs. i want to get america's economy going again. 54% of america's workers work in businesses that are taxed as individuals. so when you bring those rates down, those small businesses are able to keep more money and hire more people. for me i look at what's happened in the last four years and say this has been a disappointment. we can do better than this. we don't have to settle for -- how many months? 43 months with unemployment above 8%. 23 million americans struggling to find a good job right now. there are three and a half million more women living in poverty today than when the president took office. we don't have to live like this. we can get this economy going again. my five-point plan does it. energy independence for north america in five years. opening up more trade particularly in latin america. cracking down on china when they cheat. getting just a balanced budget. fixing our training programs for

our workers and finally championing small business. i want to help small businesses grow and thrive. i know how to make that happen. i spent my life in the private sector. i know why jobs come and why they go and they're going now because of the policies of this administration. >> governor, let me ask the president something about what you just said. the governor says that he is not -- he is not going to allow the top 5% -- is what he said, to have a tax cut. that it will all even out. what he wants to do is give the tax cut to the middle class. settled? >> no, it's not settled. look the cost of lowering rates for everybody across the board 20% along with what he also wants to do in terms of eliminating the estate tax along with what he wants to do in terms of corporate changes in the tax code, it costs about $5 trillion. governor romney then also wants to spend $2 trillion on

additional military programs even though the military is not asking for them. that's $7 trillion. he also wants to continue the bush tax cuts for the wealthiest americans. that's $8 trillion. now, what he says is he's going to make sure that this doesn't add to the deficit. and he's going to cut middle class taxes but when he's asked how are you going to do it? which deductions, which loopholes are you going to close? he can't tell you. the fact that he only has to pay 14% on his taxes when a lot of you are paying much higher -- he's already taking that off the board. capital gains are going to continue to be at a low rate. so we're not going to get money that way. we haven't heard from the governor any specifics beyond big bird and eliminating funding for planned parenthood in terms of how he pays for that.

now, governor romney was a very successful investor. if somebody came to you governor with a plan that said here, i want to spend $7 or $8 trillion and we're going to pay for it but we can't tell you until maybe after the election how we're going to do it, you wouldn't have taken such a sketchy deal. and neither should you the american people. because the math doesn't add up. and what's at stake here is one of two things. either candy this blows up the deficit because keep in mind, this is just to pay for the additional spending that he's talking about. $7 $8 trillion, that's before we get to the deficit we already have. or alternatively, it's gotta be paid for not only by closing deductions for wealthy individuals, that will pay for about 4% reduction in tax rates. you're going to be paying for it. you'll lose some deductions. and you can't buy this sales

pitch -- nobody who's looked at it who is serious believes it adds up. >> mr. president, let me get the governor in on this. governor let's before we get into a vast array of who says what -- what study says what, if it shouldn't add up, if somehow when you get in there there isn't enough tax revenue coming in, if somehow the numbers don't add up, would you be willing to look again at a 20% -- >> of course they add up. i was someone who ran businesses for 25 years. and balanced the budget. i ran the olympics and balanced the budget. i ran the state of massachusetts as a governor to the extent any governor does and balanced the budget all four years. when we're talking about math that doesn't add up, how about $4 trillion of deficits over the last four years. $5 trillion. that's math that doesn't add up. we have -- we have a president talking about someone's plan in a way that's completely foreign

to what my real plan is. and then we have his own record. which is what we have four consecutive years where he said when he was running for office he would cut the deficit in half. instead, he's doubled it. we've gone from $10 trillion of national debt to $16 trillion of national debt. if the president were re-elected, we would go to almost $20 trillion of national debt. this puts us in a road to greece. i know what it takes to balance budgets. i've done it my entire life. so for instance when he says yours is a $5 trillion cut. well, no it's not because i'm offsetting some of the reductions withholding down some of the deductions. >> governor, i have to -- i need to have you both -- i understand the stakes here. i understand both of you but i will get run out of town if i don't -- >> romney: i just described to you how i would do it with a single number that people can put -- and they can put their -- deductions and credits. >> mr. president, we're keeping

track, i promise you. mr. president, the next question is for you. stay standing. it is katherine fenton. who has a question for you. >> in what new ways do you intend to rectify the inequalities in the workplace? specifically regarding females making only 72% of what their male counterparts earn? >> obama: katherine, that's a great question. i was raised by a single mom. who had to put herself through school while looking after two kids. and she worked hard every day and made a lot of sacrifices to make sure we got everything we needed. my grandmother shy started off -- she started off as a secretary in a bank. she never got a college education. even though she was smart as a whip and she worked her way up to become a vice president of a local bank but she hit the glass ceiling. she trained people who would end

up becoming her bosses during the course of her career. she didn't complain. that's not what you did in that generation. and this is one of the reasons why one of the first -- the first bill i signed was something called the lilly ledbetter bill. and it is named after this amazing woman who had been doing the same job as a man for years. found out that she was getting paid less and the supreme court said that she could bring suit because she should have found out about it earlier but she had no way of finding out about it. we fixed that. that's an example of the kind of advocacy that we need because women are increasingly the breadwinners in the family. this is not just a women's issue. this is a family issue. it is a middle class issue. and that's why we've gotta fight for it. it also means that we've gotta make sure that people like yourself are able to afford a

college education. governor romney talked about -- he wants to make pell grants and other education accessible for young people. the truth of the matter is that that's exactly what we've done. we've expanded pell grants for millions of people including millions of young women across the country. we did it by taking $60 billion that was going to banks and lenders as middle men for the student loan program and we said let's just cut out the middle man. let's give the money directly to students and as a consequence we've seen millions of young people be able to afford college and that's going to make sure that young women are going to be able to compete in that market place. we have to enforce the laws which is what we're doing. and we've also gotta make sure that in every walk of life, we do not tolerate discrimination. that's been one of the hallmarks of my administration. i'm going to continue to push on this issue for the next four years. >> governor romney, pay equity for women. >> thank you.

one which i learned a great deal about. i had the chance to pull together a cabinet and all of the applicants seemed to be men. and i went to my staff and i said how come all of the people for these jobs are all men. these are the people that have the qualifications. i said gosh, can't we find some women that are also qualified? and so we took a concerted effort to find women who had backgrounds that could be qualified to become members of our cabinet. i went to a number of women's groups and said can you help us find folks. they brought us whole binders full of women. i was proud of the fact that after i staffed my cabinet and my senior staff that the university of new york in albany did a survey of all on a states and conclude -- of all 50 states, mine had more women in senior leadership positions than any other state in america. one of the reasons i was able to get so many women to be part of the team was because of our recruiting effort but number two because i recognize if you're

going to have women in the work force, they need to be more flexible. my chief of staff, for instance, had two kids still in school. she said i can't be here until 7:00 or 8:00 at night. i need to be able to get home at 5:00 so i can be there for making dinner for my kids and being with them when they get home from school. fine. let's have a flexible schedule so you can have hours that work for you. we're going to have to have employers in the new economy in the economy i'm going to bring to play that are going to be so anxious to get good workers they'll be anxious to hire women. in the last four years women have lost 580,000 jobs. that's the net of what's happened in the last four years. we're still down 580,000 jobs. i mentioned three and a half million women more now in poverty than four years ago. what we can do to help young women and women of all ages is to have a strong economy so strong that employers are looking to find good employees. and bringing them into their work force and adapting to a

flexible work schedule that gives women the opportunities that they would otherwise not be able to afford. this is what i've done. it is what i look forward to doing and i know what it takes to make an economy work. and i know what a working economy looks like. an economy with 7.8% unemployment is not a real strong economy. an economy that has 23 million people looking for work is not a strong economy. an economy with 50% of kids graduating from college that can't find a job or a college level job that's stuff we have to have. help women in america get good work by getting a stronger economy and by supporting women in the work force. >> mr. president, why don't you get in on this quickly. >> katherine, i want to point out when governor romney's campaign was asked about the lilly ledbetter bill, whether he supported it, he said i'll get back to you. and that's not the kind of advocacy that women need in any economy.

now, there are some other issues that have a bearing on how women succeed in the workplace. for example there is healthcare. a major difference in this campaign is that governor romney feels comfortable having politicians in washington decide the healthcare choices that women are making. i think that's a mistake. in my healthcare bill, i said insurance companies need to provide contraceptive coverage. to everybody who is insured. because this is not just a health issue it is an economic issue for women. it makes a difference. this is money out of that family's pocket. governor romney not only opposed it he suggested that in fact, employers should be able to make the decision as to whether or not or a woman gets contraception through her insurance coverage. that's not the kind of advocacy that women need. when governor romney says that

we should eliminate funding for planned parenthood, there are millions of women all across the country who rely on planned parenthood for not just contraception care. they rely on it for mammograms, for cervical cancer screenings, that's a pocketbook issue for women and families all across the country. and it makes a difference in terms of how well and effectively women are able to work. when we talk about child care, and the credits that we're providing, that makes a difference in terms of whether they can go out there and earn a living for their family. these are not just women's issues. these are family issues. these are economic issues. and one of the things that makes us grow as an economy is when everybody participates and women are getting the same fair deal as men are. i've got two daughters and i want to make sure that they have the same opportunities that anybody's sons have. that's part of what i'm fighting

for as president of the united states. >> i want to move us along here to susan katz who has a question and governor, it is for you. >> governor romney, i am an undecided voter because i'm disappointed with the lack of progress i've seen in the last four years. however, i do attribute much of america's economic and international problems to the failings and missteps of the bush administration. since both you and president bush are republicans i fear a return to the policies of those years should you win this election. what is the biggest difference between you and george w. bush? and how do you differentiate yourself from george w. bush? >> thank you. i appreciate that question. i just want to make sure that -- i think i was supposed to get that last answer but i want to point out that i don't

believe -- >> obama: i don't think so candy. i want to make sure the timekeepers are working. >> the timekeepers are all working. the last part -- it is for the two of you to talk to one another and it isn't quite as order but go ahead and use the two minutes anyway you would like to. the question is on the floor. >> romney: i just note i don't believe bureaucrats in washington should tell someone whether they can use contraceptives or not and i don't believe employers should tell people if they can have contraceptive care. every woman in america should have access to contraceptives and the president's statement of my policy is completely and totally wrong. >> obama: governor, that's not true. >> romney: president bush and i are different people. and these are different times. and that's why my five-point plan is to different than what he would have done. for instance, we can now by virtue of new technology actually get all of the energy we need in north america without having to go to the arabs or the vennen havens or -- or venezuelans or anyone else. my policy starts with a robust

policy to get all of the energy in north america. become energy secure. number two trade. i'll crack down on china. president bush didn't. i'm also going to dramatically expand trade in latin america growing 12% per year. i want to add more free-trade agreements so we'll have more trade. number three, i'm going to get us to a balanced budget. president bush didn't. president obama was right. he said that was outrageous to have deficits as high as half a trillion dollars into the bush years. he was right. but then he put in place deficits twice that size. for every one of his four years. and his forecast for the next four years is more deficits. almost that large. so that's an area i'm different than president bush. championing small business. our party has been focused on big business too long. i came to small business. i understand how hard it is to start a small business. that's why everything i'll do is designed to help small businesses grow. and add jobs.

i want to keep their taxes down on small business. i want regulators to see their job as encouraging small enterprise. not crushing it. and the thing i find more troubling about obama care, well, it is a long list but one of the things i find most troubling is that when you go out and talk to small businesses and ask them what they think about it, they tell you it keeps them from hiring more people. my priority is jobs. i know how to make that happen. president bush had a very different path for a very different time. my path is designed in getting small businesses to grow and hire people. >> thanks, governor. mr. president. >> obama: well, first of all, i think it is important to tell you that we did come in during some tough times. we were losing 800,000 jobs a month when i started. but we had been digging our way out of policies that were misplaced and focused on the top doing very well and middle class

folks not doing well. we've seen 30 con-- 31 consecutive months of job growth. 5.2 million new jobs created. the plans that i talked about will create even more. but when governor romney says that he has very different economic plan, the centerpiece of his economic plan are tax cuts, that's what took us from surplus to deficit. when he talks about getting tough on china keep in mind that governor romney invested in companies that were pioneers of outsourcing to china. and is currently investing in countries -- in companies that are building surveillance equipment for china to spy on its own folks. that's -- governor, you're the last person who's going to get tough on china. what we've done when it comes to trade is not only sign three trade deals to open up new markets, but we've also set up a task force for trade that goes

after anybody who is taking advantage of american workers or businesses and not creating a level playing field. we brought twice as many cases against unfair trade practices than the previous administration and we've won every single one that's been decided. when i said that we had to make sure that china was not flooding our domestic market with cheap tires, governor romney said i was being protectionist. that it wouldn't be helpful to american workers. we saved 1,000 jobs and that's the kind of tough trade actions that are required. but the last point i want to make is this... there are some things where governor romney is different. from george bush. george bush didn't propose turning medicare into a voucher. george bush embraced comprehensive immigration reform. he didn't call for self-deportation. george bush never suggested that we eliminate funding for planned

parenthood. so there are differences between governor romney and george bush but they're not on economic policy. in some ways, he's gone to a more extreme place when it comes to social policy. i think that's a mistake. that's not how we're going to move our economy forward. >> i want to move you both along to the next question because it is in the same wheel house so you will be able to respond but the president does get this question. i want to call on michael jones. >> mr. president, i voted for you in 2008. what have you done or accomplished during my vote in 2012. i'm not that optimistic as i was in 2012. most things i need for everyday living had are very expensive. >> obama: we've gone through a tough four years. there's no doubt about it. but four years ago i told the american people and i told you i would cut taxes for middle class families. and i did. i told you i would cut taxes for

small businesses. and i have. i said that i would end the war in iraq. and i did. i said we would refocus attention on those who actually attacked us on 9-11. and we have gone after al-qaeda's leadership like never before and osama bin laden is dead. i said that we would put in place healthcare reform to make sure that insurance companies can't jerk you around and if you don't have health insurance, that you would have a chance to get affordable insurance and i have. i committed that i would reign in the excesses of wall street. we passed the toughest wall street reforms since the 1930s. we created five million jobs. gone from 800,000 jobs a month being lost. we're making progress. we saved an auto industry on the brink of collapse. now, does that mean you're not struggling? absolutely not. a lot of us are. that's why the plan that i put forward for manufacturing and education and reducing our deficit in a sensible way using

the savings from ending wars to rebuild america and putting people back to work. making sure that we are controlling our own energy but not just the energy of today but also the energy of the future. all of those things will make a difference so the point is the commitments i've made, i've kept. and those that i haven't been able to keep, it is not for lack of trying and we're going to get it done in a second term. but you should pay attention to this campaign because governor romney's made some commitments as well. and i suspect he'll keep those too. when members of the republican congress say we're going to sign a no tack pledge so we don't ask a dime to reduce our deficit so we can still invest in education and help kids go to college he said me, too. when they said we're going to cut planned parenthood funding he said me, too. when he said we're going to

repeal obama care, first thing i'm going to do despite the fact it is the same healthcare plan that he passed in massachusetts. and is it is working well. he said me, too. that is not the kind of leadership that you need but you should expect that those are promises he's going to keep. >> mr. president -- >> obama: whose promises are going to be more likely to help you in your life, make sure your kids can go to college. make sure that you're getting a good-paying job. making sure that medicare and social security will be there for you. >> mr. president, thank you. governor. >> romney: i think you know better. i think you know that these last four years haven't been so good as the president just described and that you don't feel like you're confident the next four years will be better either. i can tell you if you were to elect president obama you're going to get a repeat of the last four years. we just can't afford four more years like the last four years. he said that by now, we would have unemployment at 5.4%.

the difference between where it is and 5.4% is nine million americans without work. i wasn't the one that said 5.4%. this was the president's plan. didn't get there. he said he would have, by now put forward a plan to reform medicare and social security. because he pointed out they're on the road to bankruptcy. he would reform them. he would get that done. he hasn't even made a proposal. on either one. he said in his first year, he would put out an immigration plan. that would deal with our immigration challenges. didn't even file it. this is a president who has not been able to do what he said he would do. he said he would cut in half the deficit. he hasn't done that either. in fact, he doubled it. he said that by now middle income families would have a reduction in their health insurance premiums by $2,500 a year. it's gone up by $2,500 a year and if obama care is passed or implemented, it has already been passed, if it is implemented

fully, it will be another $2,500 on top. the middle class is getting crushed under the policies of a president who has not understood what it takes to get the economy working again. he keeps saying look, i've created five million jobs. that's after losing five million jobs. the entire record is such that the unemployment has not been reduced in this country. the unemployment, the number of people who are still looking for work is still 23 million americans. there are more people in poverty. one out of six people in poverty. how about food stamps? when he took office, 32 million people from were on food stamps. today, 47 million people are on food stamps. how about the growth of the economy? it is growing more slowly this year than last year. and more slowly last year than the year before. the president wants to do well. i understand. but the policies he's put in place from obama care to dodd frank to his tax policies to his regulatory policies, these policies combined have not led

this economy take off and grow like it could have. you might say you got an exam of when it worked better? yeah, in the reagan recession where unemployment hit 10.8% between that period, the end of that recession and equivalent period of time to today ronald reagan's recovery created twice as many jobs as this president's recovery. five million jobs doesn't even keep up with our population growth. and the only reason the unemployment rate seems a little lower today is because of all of the people that have dropped out of the work force. the president has tried but his policies haven't worked. he's great as a -- as a speaker and describing his plans and his vision. that's wonderful except we have a record to look at. and that record shows he just hasn't been able to cut the deficit, to put in place reforms for medicare and social security to preserve them, to get us to rising incomes median incomes down $4300 a family and 23

million americans out of work. that's what this election is about. it is about who can get the middle class in this country a bright and prosperous future and assure our kids the kind of hope and optimism they deserve. >> governor, i want to move you along. don't go away. we'll have plenty of time to respond. we are quite aware of the clock for both of you. but i want to bring in a different subject here, mr. president, i will be right back with you. low rain has -- lorraine has a question for you. it is for governor romney. we'll be right with you mr. president, thanks. >> lorraine. how you doing? >> good, thanks. >> what are your plans on dealing with immigrants without their green cards that are currently living here as productive members of society? >> romney: thank you. lorraine, did i get that right? good. thank you for your question. and let me step back and tell you what i would like to do with our immigration policy broadly and include an answer to your

question. first of all, this is a nation of immigrants. we have a lot of people that come in. my dad was born of mexican parents. we welcome legal immigrants into this country. i want our legal system to work better. i want it to be streamlined. i want it to be clearer. i don't think you have to -- shouldn't have to hire a lawyer to figure out how to get into this country legally. i also think we should give visas to people, green cards rather to people who graduate with skills that we need. people around the world with accredited degrees in science and math, get a green card. stapled to their diploma. come to the u.s. of a. we should make sure our legal system works. number two we'll have to stop illegal immigration. there are four million people waiting in line to get here legally. those who have come here illegally take their place so i will not grant amnesty to those who came here illegally. i'll put in place an employment verification system and make sure that employers that hire

people who have come here illegally are sanctioned for doing so. i won't put in place magnets for people coming here illegally. for instance, i would not give driver's licenses to those who have come here illegally as the president would. the kids of those that came here illegally, those kids, i think should have a pathway to become a permanent resident of the united states. and military service, for instance, is one way they would have that kind of pathway to become a permanent resident. now, when the president ran for office, he said that he would put in place in his first year, a piece of legislation, he would file a bill in his first year that would reform our immigration system. protect legal immigration stop illegal immigration. he didn't do it. he had a democrat house and democrat senate. supermajority in both houses. why did he fail to -- even promote legislation that would have provided an answer for those that want to come here legally and for those that are here illegally today. that's a question i think the president will have a chance to answer right now.

>> obama: i look forward to it. lorraine na -- lorraine, we are a nation of immigrants. we're just a few miles away from ellis island. we all understand what this country has become because talent from all around the world wants to come here. people who are willing to take risks. people who want to build on their dreams and make sure their kids have even bigger dreams than they have. but we're also a nation of loss. what i've said is we need to fix a broken immigration system and i've done everything that i can on my own and sought cooperation from congress to make sure we fix the system. first thing we did was to streamline the legal immigration system. to reduce the backlog. make it easier, simpler and cheaper for people who are waiting in line, obeying the law to make sure they can come here and contribute to our country. that's good for our economic

growth. they'll start new businesses. they'll make things happen to create jobs. we have to deal with our border. we put more border patrol during any time in history and the flow of undocumented workers is lower than it's been in 40 years. what i've also said is if we're going to go after folks who are here illegally, we should do if smartly and go after folks who are criminals gangbangers people who are hurting the community. not after students, not after folks who are here just because they're trying to figure out how to feed their families. and that's what we've done. what i've also said is for young people who come here, brought here oftentimes by their parents, have gone to school here pledged allegiance to the flag, think of this as their country. understand themselves as americans. in every way except having papers, we should make sure we give them a pathway to

citizenship and that's what i've done administratively. now governor romney just said that he wants to help those young people, too but during the republican primary he said i will veto the dream act that would allow these young people to have access. his main strategy during the republican primary was to say we're going to encourage self-deportation. making life so miserable on folks that they'll leave. he called the arizona law a model for the nation. part of the arizona law said that law enforcement officers could stop folks because they suspected maybe they looked like they might be undocumented workers. and check their papers. you know what? if my daughter or yours looks to somebody like they're not a citizen, i don't want them -- somebody like that. so we can fix the system in a

comprehensive way. when governor romney says the challenges, well, obama didn't try. that's not true. i sat down with democrats and republicans at the beginning of my term and i said let's fix this system. including senators previously who supported it on the republican side. but it is very hard for republicans in congress to support comprehensive immigration reform if the standard here said that this is not something i'm interested in supporting. >> let me get the governor in here mr. president. let's speak too if you could governor, the idea of self-deportation. >> let me go back and speak to the points that the president made and let's get them correct. i did not say that the arizona law was a model for the nation. i said the everify portion of the arizona law which is the portion of the law which says that employers should be able to determine whether somebody is here legally or illegal is a model for the nation. number one.

number two i asked the president a question. i think hispanics and immigrants have asked. he was asked this on univision the other day why when you said you would file legislation didn't you do it? he didn't answer. he doesn't answer that question. he said the standard bearer wasn't for it. i'm glad you thought it was a standard four years ago but it wasn't. four years ago you said in your first year you would file legislation. in his first year, i was just getting -- i was licking my wounds by having been beaten by john mccain. i was not the standard bearer. this president should have honored his promise to do as he said. let me mention one other thing. that is self-deportation says let people make their own choice. what i was saying is we're not going to round up 12 million people undocumented illegals and take them out of the nation. instead, let people make their own choice and if they find that they can't get the benefits here that they want and they can't find the job they want, they'll make a decision to go where they

have better opportunities but i'm not in favor of rounding up people and taking them out of the country. i am in favor as the president has said, i agree with him, if people have committed crimes, we have to get them out of this country. let me mention something the president said. i didn't have a chance when he was describing chinese investments and so forth -- >> obama: candy, hold on a second. >> romney: mr. president, i'm still speaking. >> obama: governor romney, i'm -- >> go ahead and finish, governor romney. make it short. see all of these people. they've been waiting for you. >> romney: any investments i have over the last eight years have been managed by a blind trust. i understand they do include investments outside the united states including in chinese companies. mr. president, have you looked at your pension? have you looked at your pension? >> obama: i've gotta say. >> romney: mr. president, have you looked at your pension? >> romney: i don't look at my pension. it is not as big as yours. [ laughter ] >> romney: let me give you some

advice. >> obama: i don't check it that often. >> romney: you also have investments outside the united states. you also have investments through a cayman trust. >> we're way off topic here, governor romney. we're completely off. >> obama: i thought we were talking about immigration. i want to make sure -- >> if i could have you sit down, governor romney. >> obama: i want to make sure we understand something. governor romney says he wasn't referring to arizona. his top advisor on immigration is the guy who designed the arizona law, the entirety of it. not everify, the whole thing! that's his policy. and it is a bad policy. and it won't help us grow. look, when we think about immigration, we have to understand there are folks all around the world who still see america as the land of promise. and they provide us energy and they provide us innovation. and they start companies like intel and google and we want to encourage that.

now, we've gotta make sure that we do it in a smart way and a comprehensive way and a legal system better. but when we make this into a divisive political issue and when we don't have bipartisan support, i can deliver governor. a whole bunch of democrats to get comprehensive immigration reform done. >> romney: i'll get it done. first year. >> mr. president, let me move you on here. >> obama: it is time for them to get serious on it. it used to be a bipartisan issue. >> don't go away. >> obama: i'm here. >> i want you to talk to carrie who wants to switch the topic for us. >> okay. hi carrie. >> good evening mr. president. >> obama: i'm sorry. what is your name? >> carry. this question actually comes from a brain trust of my friends at global telecom supply in mineola yesterday. we were sitting around talking about libya. we were reading and became aware

of reports that the state department refused extra security for our embassy in benghazi libya, prior to the attacks that killed four americans. who was it that denied enhanced security and why? >> obama: let me first of all talk about our diplomats because they serve all around the world. and do an incredible job in a very dangerous situation. and these aren't just representatives of the united states. they're my representatives. i send them there. often time into harm's way. i know these folks. i know their families. so nobody's more concerned about their safety and security than i am. so as soon as we found out that the benghazi consulate was being overrun, i was on the phone with my national security team and i gave them three instructions. number one beef up our security and procedures, not just in libya but in every embassy and consulate in the region.

number two investigate exactly what happened. regardless of where the facts lead us. to make sure that folks are held accountable and it doesn't happen again. number three we are going to find out who did this and we're going to hunt them down because one of the things that i've said throughout my presidency is when folks mess with americans we go after them. now, governor romney had a very different response. while we were still dealing with our diplomats being threatened, governor romney put out a press release trying to make political points and that's not how a commander in chief operates. you don't turn national security into a political issue. certainly not right when it's happening! and people, not everybody agrees with some of the decisions i've made. then comes to our national security, i mean what i say. i said i would end the war in

iraq and i did. i said that we would go after al-qaeda and bin laden. we have. i said we would transition out of afghanistan and start making sure that afghans are responsible for their own security. that's what i'm doing. and when it comes to this issue when i say that we're going to find out exactly what happened, everybody will be held accountable. and i am ultimately responsible for what's taking place there because these are my folks. and i'm the one who has to greet those coffins when they come home. you know that i mean what i say. >> mr. president, i have to move us along. governor? >> romney: thank you carry for your question, it is an important one. i think the president just said correctly the buck does stop at his desk and he takes responsibility for that -- for the failure in providing those security resources and those terrible things may well happen from time to time. i feel very deeply sympathetic for the families of those who

lost loved ones. today there is a memorial service for one of those lost in this tragedy. we think of their families and care for them deeply. there are other issues associated with this tragedy. there were many days that passed before we knew whether this was a spontaneous demonstration or whether it was a terrorist attack. there was no demonstration involved. it was a terrorist attack. it took a long time for that to be told to the american people. whether there was some misleading or instead whether we didn't know what happened, i think you have to ask yourself why didn't we know five days later when the ambassador to the united nations went on tv to say this was a demonstration, how could we have not known but i find more troubling than this that on the day following the assassination of the united states ambassador, the first time that's happened since 1979, when we have four americans killed there when apparently we didn't know what happened, that the president -- the day after

that happened, flies to las vegas for political fund-raiser. then the next day to colorado for another event. another political event. i think these actions taken by a president and a leader have symbolic significance. and perhaps even material significance in that you hope that during that time we could call in the people who were actually eyewitnesses. we've read their accounts now about what happened. it was very clear. this was not a demonstration. this was an attack. by terrorists. and this calls into question the president's whole policy in the middle east. look what's happening in syria. in egypt. now in libya. consider the distance between ourselves and israel, the president said that he was going to put daylight between us and israel. we have iran, four years closer to a nuclear bomb. syria is not just the tragedy of 30,000 civilians being killed by a military but also a strategically significant player for america. the president's policies throughout the middle east began

with an apology tour. and pursue a strategy of leading from behind and this strategy is unraveling before our very eyes. >> because we're closing in, i want to still get a lot of people in. i want to ask you something mr. president and have the governor quickly -- your secretary of state as i'm sure you know, has said that she takes full responsibility for the attack on the diplomatic mission in benghazi. does the buck stop with your secretary of state as far as what went on here? >> obama: secretary clinton has done an extraordinary job but she works for me. i'm the president. i'm always responsible. and that's why nobody's more interested in finding out exactly what happened than i do. the day after the attack, governor i stood in the rose garden and i told the american people and the world that we are going to find out exactly what happened. that this was an act of terror. and i also said that we're going to hunt down those who committed

this crime. and then a few days later, i was there greeting the caskets coming into andrews air force base. and grieving with the families. and the suggestion that anybody on my team, whether it is secretary of state our u.n. ambassador, anybody on my team would play politics or mislead when we've lost four of our own governor is offensive. that's not what we do. that's not what i do as president. that's not what i do as commander in chief. >> governor, if you want to -- >> i certainly do. i think it's interesting the president which said something which is on the day after the attack, he went to the rose garden. and said that this was an act of terror. you said in the rose garden the day after the attack, it was an act of terror.

it was not a spontaneous demonstration. is that what you're saying? >> obama: please proceed governor. >> romney: i want to make sure we get that for the record because it took the president 14 days before he called the attack in benghazi an attack -- >> obama: get the transcript. >> he did. he did call it an act of terror. it did, as well take -- [ applause ] it did as well take two weeks or so for the whole idea of there being a riot ute there about this tape to come out. you're correct about that. >> romney: the administration -- the administration indicated that this was a reaction to a video and was a spontaneous reaction. >> it did. >> romney: it took them a long time to say it was a terrorist act by a terrorist group and to suggest -- am i incorrect in that regard? on sunday, the -- your secretary of state -- excuse me, the ambassador of the united nations, went on the sunday television shows and spoke about

how -- >> obama: candy. i'm happy to have a longer conversation about this policy. >> i want to move you on. >> obama: i'm happy to do that, too. i want to make sure that -- all of these folks will have a chance to get their questions answered. >> what i want to do, mr. president, stand there for a second. i want to introduce you to nina gonzalez who brought up a question that we hear a lot both over the internet and from this crowd. >> president obama during the democratic national convention in 2008, you stated you wanted to keep ak-47s out of the hands of criminals. what has your administration done or plan to do to limit the availability of assault weapons? >> obama: we're a nation that believes in the second amendment. i believe in the second amendment. we've got a long tradition of hunting and sportsman and people who want to make sure they can protect themselves.

but there have been too many instances during the course of my presidency where i've had to comfort families who have lost somebody. most recently, out in aurora. just a couple of weeks ago actually probably about a month, i saw a mother who i had met at the bedside of her son who had been shot in that theatre. and her son had been shot three the head. and we spent some time and we said a prayer. and remarkably, about two months later, this young man and his mom showed up and he looked unbelievable. good as new. but there were a lot of families who didn't have that good fortune. and whose sons or daughters or husbands didn't survive. so my belief is that a we have to enforce the laws we've already got.

make sure that we're keeping guns out of the hands of criminals, those who are mentally ill. we've done a much better job in terms of background checks but we've got more to do. when it comes to enforcement. but i also share your belief that weapons that were designed for soldiers in war theatres don't belong on our streets. what i'm trying to do is to get a broader conversation about how do we reduce the violence generally. part of it is seeing if we can get an assault weapons ban reintroduced but part of it is also looking at other sources of the violence. because frankly in my hometown of chicago there is an awful lot of violence and they're not using ak-47s. they're using cheap handguns. what can we do to intervene to make sure young people have opportunity? that our schools are working? that if there's violence on the streets, that working with faith groups and law enforcement, we can catch it before it gets out

of control. so what i want is a comprehensive strategy, part of it is seeing if we can get automatic weapons that kill folks in amazing numbers out of the hands of criminals and the mentally ill but part of it is also going deeper and seeing if we can get into these communities and making sure we catch violent impulses before they occur. >> governor romney, the question is about assault weapons ak-47s. >> romney: i'm not in favor of new pieces of legislation on guns and taking guns away or making certain guns illegal. we of course don't want to have automatic weapons. that's already illegal in this country to have automatic weapons. what i believe is we have to do as the president mentioned toward the end of his remarks there which is to make enormous efforts to enforce the gun laws that we have. and to change the culture of violence we have. and you ask how are we going to do that? there are a number of things. he mentioned good schools. i totally agree. we were able to drive our

schools to be number one in the nation in my state. and i believe if we do a better job in education we'll give people the hope and opportunity they deserve and perhaps less violence from that but let me mention another thing. and that is parents. we need moms and dads helping raise kids. wherever possible, the benefit of having two parents in the home and that's not always possible, a lot of great single moms, single dads but gosh, to tell our kids that before they have babies, they ought to think about getting married to someone, that's a great idea because if there is a two-parent family the prospect of living in poverty goes down dramatically. the opportunities the child will be able to achieve increase dramatically. we can make changes in the way our culture works to help bring people away from violence and give them opportunity and bring them into the american system. the greatest failure we've had with regards to gun violence in some respects is what is nobody as fast and furious. which was a program under this administration and how it worked exactly, we don't know precisely

but where thousands of automatic and ak-47 type weapons were given to people that ultimately gave them to druglords. they used those weapons against their own citizens and killed americans with them. and this was a program of the government. for what purpose it was put in place, i can't imagine. but it is one of the great tragedies related to violence in our society which has occurred during this administration which i think the american people would like to understand fully. it has been investigated to a degree but the administration has -- has carried out executive privilege to prevent all of the information from coming out. i would like to understand who it was that did this. what the idea was behind it. why it led to the violence. thousands of guns going to mexican druglords. >> governor. if i could the question was about these assault weapons that once were ban and are no longer banned. i know that you signed an assault weapons ban when you

were in massachusetts. obviously with this question, you no longer support that. why is that given the kind of violence we see with the mass killings? why is it that you've changed your mind? >> romney: candy, in my state the pro gun folks and the anti-gun folks came together. and put together a piece of legislation. and it is referred to as an assault weapon ban but it had at the signing of the bill, both pro gun and the anti-gun people came together because it provided opportunities for both that both wanted. there were hunting opportunities for instance that hadn't previously been available and so forth. it was a mutually agreed upon piece of legislation. that's what we need more of, candy. what we have now in washington is a place that's gridlocked. >> if you could get people to agree to it, you would be for it. >> romney: we haven't had the leadership in washington to work on a bipartisan basis. i was able to do that in my state and bring these two together. >> mr. president. >> obama: first of all i think

governor romney was for an assault weapons ban before he was against it. and he said that the reason he changed his mind was in part because he was seeking the endorsement of the national rifle association. so that's on the record. but i think that one area we agree on is the importance of parents and the importance of schools. because i do believe that if you are -- if our young people have opportunity, then they're less likely to engage in these kind of violent acts. we won't eliminate everybody who is mentally disturbed and we've gotta make sure they don't get weapons. we can make a difference in terms of ensuring that every young person in america regardless of where they come from, has a chance to succeed. candy, we haven't had a chance to talk about education much but i think it is very important to understand that the reforms we've put in place working with 46 governors around the country are seeing schools that are some

of the ones that are the toughest for kids. starting to succeed. we're starting to see gains in math and science. then comes to community colleges, we're setting up programs including with nassau community college to retrain workers including young people who may have dropped out of school but are now getting another chance. training them for the jobs that exist right now. and in fact, employers are looking for skilled workers. and so we're matching them up. giving them access to higher education. as i said, we have made sure that millions of young people are able to get education that they weren't able to get before. >> mr. president, i have to move you along here. you said you wanted to give them a chance to have questions. >> obama: just one second. this is important. this is part of the choice in this election. when governor romney was asked -- whether teachers, hiring more teachers was important to growing our

economy, governor romney said that doesn't grow our economy. >> mr. president, i need to move us along. question was guns. >> obama: this will make a difference whether or not we can move the economy forward and reduce our violence. >> thank you so much. i want to ask carol goldberg to stand up. she gets to a question that both of these men have been passionate about. this is for governor romney. >> the outsourcing of american jobs overseas has taken a toll on our economy. what plans do you have to put back and keep jobs here in the united states? >> romney: great question. an important question because you're absolutely right. the place where we've seen manufacturing go has been china. china is now the largest manufacturer in the world. used to be the united states of america. a lot of good people have lost jobs. a half a million manufacturing jobs have been lost in the last four years. that's total over the last four years. one of the reasons for that is that people think it is more attractive in some cases to go offshore than to stay here. we have made it less attractive

for enterprises to stay here than to go offshore from time to time. what i will do as president is make sure it is more attractive to come to america again. this is the way we're going to create jobs in this country. it is not by trickle down government. saying we're going to take more money from people and hire more government workers. raise more taxes. put in place more regulations. trickle down government has never worked here. it has never worked anywhere. i want to make america the most attractive place in the world for entrepreneurs. for small business. for big business. to invest and grow in america. now, we're going to have to make sure as we trade with other nations, that they play by the rules and china hasn't. one of the ways they don't play by the rules is artificially -- they put their currency down low, their prices and goods are low. that meeps makes them advantageous in the market place. we lose sales and manufacturers here in the u.s. making the same

products can't compete. china has been a currency manipulator for years and years and years. and the president has a regular opportunity to label them as a currency manipulator but refuses to do so. on day one i will label china a currency man inlater. which will allow me as president to be able to put in place if necessary, tariffs where i believe that they're taking unfair advantage of our manufacturers. so we're going to make sure that people we trade with around the world play by the rules. but let me not just stop there. don't forget what's key to bringing back jobs here is not just finding someone else to punish. and i'm going to be strict with people who we trade with to make sure they follow the law and play by the rules but it is also to make america the most attractive place in the world for businesses of all kinds of. that's why i want to bring down the tax rates on small employers, big employers. so they want to be here. canada's tax rate on companies

is now 15%. ours is 35%. so if you're starting a business, where would you rather start it? we have to be competitive if we're going to create more jobs here. regulations have quadrupled the rate of regulations quadrupled under this president. i talked to small businesses across the country. they say we feel like we're under attack from our own government. i want to make sure that regulators see their job is encouraging small business and no question but obama care has been an extraordinary deterrent to enterprises of all kinds hiring people. my priority is making sure that we get more people hired. if we had more people hired if we get back manufacturing jobs, if we get back all kinds of jobs into this country you're going to see rising incomes again. i know what it takes to get this to happen. one part of it is to make sure we cheap china playing by the

rules. >> mr. president, two minutes here because we're then going to go to our last question. >> obama: okay. we need to create jobs here. and both governor romney and i agree that we should lower our corporate tax rate. it is too high. but there is a difference in how we would do it. i want to close loopholes that allow companies to deduct expenses when they move to china. that allow them to profit offshore. and not have to get taxed so they have tax advantages offshore. all of those changes in our tax code would make a difference. now, governor romney actually wants to expand those tax breaks. one of his big ideas when it comes to corporate tax reform would be to say if you invest overseas, you make profits overseas, you don't have to pay u.s. taxes. but of course, if you're a small business or a mom and pop business or a big business starting up here, you've gotta pay even the reduced rate that

governor romney is talking about. it is estimated that will create 800,000 new jobs. problem is they'll be in china. or india. or germany. that's not the way we're going to create jobs here. the way we're going to create jobs here is not just to change our tax code but also to double our exports. and we are on pace to double our exports, one of the commitments i made when i was president. that's creating tens of thousands of jobs. all across the country. that's why we've kept on pushing trade deals but trade deals that make sure that american workers and american businesses are getting a good deal. governor romney talked about china. as i already indicated. the private sector, governor romney's company invested in what were called pioneers of outsourcing. that's not my phrase. that's what reporters called it. and as far as currency manipulation the currency has gone up 11% since i've been president because we have pushed

them hard. and we've put unprecedented trade pressure on china. that's why exports have significantly increased under my presidency. that's going to help to create jobs here. >> mr. president, we have a really short time for a quick discussion here. ipad, the mac the iphones they're all manufactured in china. one of the major reasons is labor is so much cheaper. how do you convince a great american company to bring that manufacturing back here? >> romney: the answer is very straightforward. we can compete with anyone in the world as long as the playing field is level. china has been cheating over the years. one by holding down the value of their currency. number two by stealing our intellectual property, our designs, our patents our technology. there is even an apple store in china that's a counterfeit selling counterfeit goods. they hack into our computers. we'll have to have people play on a fair basis. number one. number two we have to make

america the most attractive place for entrepreneurs, for people who want to expand the business. that's what brings jobs in. the president's characterization of my tax plan -- >> obama: how much time, candy? >> romney: let me tell you -- >> let me go to the president because we're running out of time. the question is can we ever get -- we can't get wages like that. >> obama: candy, there are some jobs that are not going to come back because they're low wage, low-skilled jobs. i want high-wage high-skill jobs. that's why we have to emphasize manufacturing. that's why we have to invest in advanced manufacturing. that's why we've gotta make sure we've got the best science and research in the world. when we talk about deficits, if we're adding to our deficit for tax cuts, for folks who don't need them and we're cutting investments in research and science that will create the next step, create the next new innovation that will sell products around the world we'll lose that race. if we're not training engineers to make sure that they are

equipped here in this country then companies won't come here. those investments are what's going to help to make sure that we continue to lead this world economy, not just next year but ten years from now 50 years from now 100 years from now. >> thank you president. >> romney: governor does not create jobs. >> governor romney, barry green has the last question to you first. >> romney: hi, barry. >> hi, governor. this is a tough question. each of you what do you believe is the biggest misperception that the american people have about you as a man and a candidate, using specific examples, can you take this opportunity to debunk that misperception and set us straight? >> romney: thank you. that's an opportunity for me. i appreciate it. in the nature of a campaign, it seems that some campaigns are focused on attacking a person

rather than prescribing their own future and the things they would like to do. in the course of that, i think the president's campaign has tried to characterize me as someone who is very different than who i am. i chair about 100% of the american people. i want 100% of the people to have a bright and prosperous future. i care about our kids. i understand what it takes to make a bright and prosperous future for america again. i spent my life in the private sector not in government. i'm a guy who wants to help with the experience i have, the american people. my passion probably flows from the fact that i believe in god. and i believe we're all children of the same god. i believe we have a responsibility to care for one another. i served as a missionary for my church. served as a pastor for about ten years. i've sat across the table from people who are -- who were out of work and worked with them to try to find new work or to help them through tough times. i went to the olympics when they were in trouble to try to get them on track.

and as governor of my state, i was able to get 100% of my people insured, all of my kids, about 98% of the adults, able also to get our schools ranked number one in the nation so 100% of our kids would have a bright opportunity for a future. i understand that i can get this country on track again. we don't have to settle for what we're going through. we don't have to settle for gasoline at $4. we don't have to settle for unemployment at a chronically high level. we don't have to settle for 47 million people on food stamps. we don't have to o settle for 50% of kids coming out of college not able to get work. we don't need to settle for 23 million people struggling to find a good job. if i become president i'll get america working again. i will get us on track to a balanced budget. the president hasn't. i will. i'll make sure we can reform medicare and social security to preserve them for coming generations, the president said he would. he didn't. >> governor. >> romney: i'll get our incomes

up. i've done these things. i served as governor and showed i could get them done. >> mr. president, last two minutes belong to you. >> obama: barry, i think a lot of this campaign, maybe over the last four years has been devoted to this notion that i think government creates jobs. that that somehow is the answer. that's not what i believe. i believe that the free enterprise system is the greatest engine of prosperity the world's ever known. i believe in self-reliance. and individual initiative and risktakers being rewarded but i also believe that everybody should have a fair shot. everybody should do their fair share and everybody should play by the same rules. because that's how our economy is grown. that's how we built the world's greatest middle class. and that is part of what's at stake in this election. there is a fundamentally different vision about how we move our country forward. i believe governor romney's a

good man. loves his family. cares about his faith. but i also believe that when he said behind closed doors that 47% of the country considers themselves victims who refuse personal responsibility, think about who he was talking about. folks on social security who have worked all of their lives veterans who sacrificed for that country. for this country. students who are out there trying to hopefully advance their own dreams but also this country's dreams. soldiers who are overseas fighting for us right now. people who are working hard every day paying payroll tax gas taxes but don't make enough income. and i want to fight for them. that's what i've condition doing for the last four years because if they succeed i believe the country succeeds. when my grandfather fought in world war ii and he came back

and he got a g.i. bill and that allowed him to go to college that wasn't a handout. that was something that advanced the entire country. and i want to make sure that the next generation has those same opportunities. that's why i'm asking for your vote and that's why i'm asking for another four years. >> president obama governor romney, thank you for being here tonight. we have come to the end of this town hall debate. our thanks to participants for their time and to the people of hofstra university for their hospitality. the next and final debate takes place monday night in boca raton, florida. don't forget to watch. election day is three weeks from today. don't forget to vote. good night. >> eliot: this is current tv's coverage of what has been a riveting and dramatic 90 minutes of combative contentious debate between the president and governor romney. my first assessment, a draw. each of them had high points, each of them of had some low

points. overall, the president displayed a completely different persona than he had a few weeks ago. he was feisty, tough. mitt romney did the same thing. each of them had a persuasive and emotional closing statement. i think that the president put himself back on the playing field and said i have a record. i'm proud of it. mitt romney pushed back hard. i'm not sure it changes the game overnight but i will tell. >> very different president than we saw several weeks ago. jennifer? >> jennifer: i disagree with you. i think the president was masterful in this debate. he came out strong. he was emotional. appropriately. he was clear. he attacked mitt romney on the points that we all wanted him to attack him on. i was worried he wasn't going to get to the 47% but he brought it in at the very end. i think mitt romney's absolute worst moment, the moment he lost that debate was in his libya answer which should have been his strongest moment. when he got the president's words wrong in the rose garden and candy crowley had to correct

him, he looked like a -- a complete muddle up there. so i think the president absolutely got it back on track! >> john: am i allowed to agree with both of my governor friends? it would be a draw but i give the edge to the president. governor romney made no improvement. the president, a substantial improvement. i think the president -- i would say 90% neutralized the criticisms on benghazi. i think both sides did a masterful job of dodging the gun control question which some of us have come to expect from the two-party system and focus groups. i do think the president was much more passionate and fiery. i was really glad along with you, governor, he saved the 47% for the final moments. i think that tomorrow you will see both sides claiming victory. i think tonight helps the president more than it helped governor romney. we do want to know what all of you all think. we're still taking your tweets. let us know your thoughts.

i'll be back with both of these brilliant governors for

>> jennifer: welcome back to current's coverage of the unbelievable debate that we just saw. it was completely riveting. every moment we were on edge of our seat. for political junkies man, this was the academy awards. it was so fantastic. what we're going to do first is go to david shuster at hofstra

university in spin alley to get his take on what the feel is right now. david, can you give us a feel? >> governor granholm, spokesperson for the obama campaign came out before the campaign end and said barack obama is back. he was back on that stage tonight. jim, you've seen it said you had never seen a debate where mitt romney had been fact checked by a moderator. he called that unprecedented. they're drawing a lot of attention to candy crowley fact checking mr. president obama said the libya attacks were an act of terror. he said he's not providing any specifics and when he does, according to axelrod romney is being outright dishonest. the romney campaign acknowledged that president obama was much more aggressive tonight but jim said romney won on content and in terms of likability with his tone and sununu, the former

chief of staff essentially a romney surrogate of sorts he outright went after candy crowley in spin alley. what president obama said about libya was one of the most dishonest things sununu had ever heard and that it was not candy crowley's place to insert herself and he said that candy crowley was wrong. we've looked at the transcript from what president obama said in the rose garden and he did refer to acts of terror. the question is was he referring to libya as being an act of terror or was he referring to acts of terror or generally -- that debate will continue. one other thing debates where you like to start strong and finish strong, nobody saw the end of the debate in terms of spin alley. most campaigns were out there and didn't see the final five minutes or when president obama was talking about the 47% and that strong sill q3 there at the end. >> eliot: i think each of the candidates gave the best performance in the closing

statement. mitt romney confronting head on what he believes is the misperception of him preempting the 47% by talking about the 100% and i think he was very persuasive. the president came on and took the 47%. we have been waiting to hear the numbers for weeks. both of them gave great closing statements and that's why i think this was the president on point. the interesting thing will be over time. mitt romney's failure to give answers, his tax plan does not hold up. the aritt met sick off. the question is now that it's been framed, now that the president went after it and went through the resertation of the $8 billion and said there's no revenue for that. someone did the numbers. all of the deductions romney said he is going to close bring in $730 billion not even $1 billion compared to the $8 billion in revenue that romney would need over time does that come to be the achilles' heel and does romney's claim fall apart under examination. >> one other point eliot from

the campaigner a perspective. they're both trying to reach women. neither campaign is going to feel confident tonight. a lot of the groups they're paying attention to, women did not like the approach of either candidate. there wasn't a sense that either one was particularly warm. as far as moving the likability on women voters, that's going to be a problem for both of them. >> jennifer: interesting they didn't mention choice. >> john: thank you david shuster. great to have you on the floor. you're right governor. we did not hear substantive debate on abortion which surprise the us a great deal. i want to go to michael shure in san francisco. what's your take on the evening? >> john, i think it was a real victory for the president in that he was the only one here who had a mission. going to this debate, he had an assignment in this debate which was to undo what he had done the last time. mission accomplished on that score. on both style and substance, he brought it tonight. that's what was prescribed of him. i agree, i was going to say what

david said about women. i was surprised with all of the talk of women that we did not hear more about women. we did hear about immigration for the first time in a debate. we did hear about guns. if only briefly and i think the president really won that debate because romney began to wander on that. i understand eliot doesn't believe that it was a big a victory for the president. >> nor do i michael. >> when you think about candy crowley and how they're talking about her right now, the winning team is rarely the team that complains about the refereeing. >> exactly. that was what the question i was bringing up to this distinguished governors during the break. beside the complaints about the -- the side that complains the side that lost? >> eliot: what she did was going to evoke a reaction especially from a john sununu. here's what i point out. emotional outcome at the very end. i think they both closed strong. if you look at the number of the segments, the questions that related to jobs and the economy. which was a more natural turf

and terrain for mitt romney. it started that way in jobs and energy and taxes and while the president pushed back effectively about mitt romney's tax plan, those areas outsourcing, mitt romney spoke effect live by the economy. the closer battle than certainly emotionally, i wanted it to be and jennifer than you're seeing, john and i think are reacting -- >> jennifer: what was his best point? >> eliot: the reality we're at a point of malaise and we've not hit any of the targets that president obama wants us to hit. >> jennifer: that was his best answer. >> eliot: weak moment was benghazi. >> john: completely dodging the similarities to bush. >> jennifer: that one answer you're talking about where he talked about the promises the president made and the failure to keep the promises and the president was itching to get up and respond. that was the one moment in the debate where i was so longing to hear the president respond to

that and candy crowley had to cut him off. i think that mitt romney's -- mitt romney continued to lose hispanic support in this debate. by saying that he did not embrace all of the arizona law. when, in fact, he absolutely did say arizona's law should be a model for the nation and i think the fact checkers will come at him hard on that. i think the president -- this is for me. of course i'm very emotional about the auto industry. when he -- when mitt romney, again, sort of claimed credit for the auto industry going bankrupt, it is so utterly -- it is complete and utter fabrication! there was nobody in the private sector who was willing to step up and be the debtor in possession to allow the auto industry to survive. when the president stood up and said he would have allowed them to liquidate he's absolutely right. we would be out a million jobs and no auto industry.

i was so relieved and happy to hear that. >> eliot: the president i thought was good on it. why didn't he say the way you said it. there was no private sector money. mitt, would you have lent money? >> jennifer: he effectively did it but saying they would liquidate it. >> eliot: a little bit of craftsmanship on his language could have driven a stake into the heart of the romney argument. you're right. romney was going to let the industry go. he understands that. >> jennifer: that's why -- he he -- >> john: on the same day when walter describe said that mitt romney has nothing in down with his father, i thought it was telling this is one of the high points of the debate. a debate filled with high points. again, the gun control issue. i was a bit disappointed in. i would have liked some specifics on immigration, i think the president -- almost got mitt romney to say he sort of supported him. >> jennifer: i thought he did say that. he supported -- i don't want your kids to have to go --

>> eliot: he would not revoke what the president has done with respect to -- amnesty is not the word he would use. give deportations to kids. >> jennifer: what clarity did he provide about immigration reform? >> eliot: nothing but fog on the issue. they were using language to be interpreted. >> john: mitt romney completely avoided whether he would support the legislation. >> jennifer: binders of women he brought to his office. that was his answer. he didn't list one single policy that he would sign. i know some women. some are my best friends. i had some in my administration even. >> eliot: in terms of seeing how this plays out electorally does the immigrant vote continue to be rock solid for the president and does the gender gap eremerge in which the gains romney has shown will disappear. and the swing states that are close, ohio, virginia, the pivot point for the election will fall back pretty neatly into the

president's camp. that's in terms of the mechanics of this, the critical issue. >> jennifer: i do think the president was very good on hitting back before his complete ridiculous math. the math doesn't work issue. it does not add up. and i'm so glad as your client points out. we'll see a lot of that in the coming days. >> john: when the president did the math from $5 trillion to $7 trillion, you have a thought on that, michael? >> it is not just -- we're talking about the details to go back and forth and i think it is important to talk about immigration especially since the next debate is in florida on monday. immigrants in florida and hispanic vote in florida is tightening more than in any other state. the point of this debate -- we have to step away. this was about demeanor and correcting an error that happened on october 3rd. and if that's what this was so much about then all of these details are not as important as saying okay, the president showed up this time. he's back. and that's what this was about

for barack obama. >> eliot: question mark attached to it. the question is does the president have re-emerged and been the persona we want to see does that snap back the voters whom he may have lost over the past week or does it bring it back to a level playing field where they're fighting from a new status quo? and then the public looks at the economic model. mitt romney makes a good case. agree or disagree. he makes a persuasive case. he makes the point about where the president is not accomplished. i don't know how this is going to sink into those who don't view in the granular way dewe do. >> even if he failed to get the independents back on his side, he did the most important thing he re-energized his base tonight. there were a lot of people who were down on the president who are re-energized. >> jennifer: and he showed that he wanted this job. and that he was going to fight for this job and that he was going to fight more importantly

for our jobs, for americans' jobs for all of us. i think that more than anything is what people wanted to see. >> john: my hope for the next debate is we hear some mention of marriage equality. >> foreign policy debate. >> john: we won't hear it. if it is foreign policy, i would like to hear someone talk about the drug war a little bit. i'm not betting money on it. we won't hear much about abortion rights which is a missed opportunity for the president. >> eliot: why did mitt romney fumble the benghazi question. he blew it. >> jennifer: he totally blew it. this was the worst answer. it could have been his strongest point all because he had candy crowley having corrected right in the middle of it. >> eliot: what he should have said is not go back to the president in the rose garden. he should have said five days later the u.n. ambassador still went on to the national tv shows and said it was about a video rather than terror. then he would have had a clean answer. brain freeze or whatever it may be. that was one spectacular evening of tv. maybe you have to be a political

junky to have enjoyed. it. >> jennifer: loved it. >> eliot: mitt romney, the president stabbing toe to toe -- standing toe to toe talking over each other. it was riveting, exciting, fun. coming up, joy behar say anything on current tv. be back with u (vo) what is said here could decide the election. current tv presents special event coverage of the presidential debate. with unrivaled analysis and commentary. >> you're going to hear that used as a major talking point. (vo) the only network with real-time reaction straight from the campaigns and from viewers like you. >> now that's politially direct. >>start the night with a special live edition of "talking liberally with stephanie miller" at 7 eastern. only on current tv. nah, he's probably got... [ dennis' voice ] allstate. they can bundle all your policies together. lot of paperwork. actually... [ dennis' voice ] an allstate agent can help do the switching and paperwork for you. well, it probably costs a lot. [ dennis' voice ] allstate can save you up to 30% more when you bundle.

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