pbs documentary based on his new book "half a sky" is critical. and the biggest bank you never heard of but need to know about. it creates jobs by giving loans to businesses. the bank's chairman, fred hochberg, joins us later but first, new york columnist nicholas kristof. >> gavin: you summed up expectations of obama first term. your score card was pretty favorable except for one exception, you rated president obama in communication an "f." what is communicating selling the agenda? selling the success? >> yes and it's kind of astonishing that a president that had such oratorycal skills

and such a fantastic writer has such difficulties crafting bumper stickerrers. if you think about the healthcare debate i don't think he came up with a good bumper sticker to sell it with a good message. he still gave some good speeches but there aren't really that many in his first term. it's always said that candidates, when you're running for office you speak in poetry. then you governor in prose. but the--boom's prose while governing has really felt like latin. i think maybe he has not appreciated until recently the power of bully pulpit.

it's not just about announcements but winning over the public. i think over the past few years he has risen to the responsibility. >> gavin: interesting. what is your sense--can you sum up with any clarity what a second term will look like or would look like, i'm assuming success. he has made a strong case for what a second term would look like? >> i don't think he has clarified about where things would go in the second term. i think that's partly the political constraint that any time you're very specific you're going to lose voters in ohio and florida. >> gavin: right. >> but if i were guessing i would think that we're going to come out of this not exactly recession but economic down turn, and that is going to create some opportunities for a long-term fiscal deal.

i don't know whether it can be done, but i think it's possible. and i think that would be a potential huge milestone. i think that he will continue to push education issues. that's one thing that isn't much of this presidential campaign. it's really where he has been traps formative. so i think we're going to see him continue to push in that direction. i guess he will be lessen gauged with foreign policy than he was in the first where we pull out of afghanistan. we're already out of iraq. i think it will be more of a domestic focus in the second term. i don't know to what extent he will be able or willing to address issues like energy climate change that he has kind of dropped the ball on in the first term. but i say drop the ball. that's a little harsh, but at

the end of the day things didn't get done for reasons that go way beyond him. >> gavin: no, i get it. one thing missing in your assessment is focus on nuclear iran his close friend netanyahu and others? >> i don't think there will be a middle east deal for a while. the middle east deal is a little like ireland in the 1980s that you can't get a deal now. but what you need to do is gradually create conditions where maybe peace may be reached down the road. for that the most critical thing is you have to deal with settlements. we're not dealing with them. i think that obama feels somewhat burned when he

attempted unsuccessfully to engage on that issue. i would be--i'd love to see him become more engaged ohen that. i don't think he will. on iran, i'm afraid he has been painting himself in a corner. he has said so clearly that we will not allowed iran to have a weapon. if there isn't progress in negotiations and it continues in iran, then in a couple of years or so, a year and a half maybe he need, indeed, order a military strike, and we might be at war with iran. that's one of the things that i do worry about. it seems to me that there might be a 50/50 chance if obama is re-elected that we would go to war with iran within a few years. with mitt romney there would be

an 85% chance. >> gavin: after the breakneck nick tells us why he's optimistic about the world he is we're living in despite the sobering update on syria and the middle east. granholm, spitzer, and vice president gore, watch the only truly experienced presidential debate coverage.

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>> gavin: we're back with nicholas kristof, best selling author and columnist at "the new york times." so you traveled as much or more as any journalist. >> way too much, my family says. >> gavin: 150. -plus countries, every state in the united states. it begs the question with your history and the present work you're doing. what world fundamentally are we living in? >> a transforming one. frankly, in a lot of good ways. i think people are always surprised when they meet me, and they expect someone really gloomy and anxiety-ridden and depressed about the world because i'm covering a lot of things. but on global poverty we're making tremendous progress. on so many of these issues that i care about we're inching progress. global health issues. you know, i remember my first

trip to africa, and i remember the thing that horrified me the most was how many blind people there were. every capital you would see these middle aged blind people begging and being led around by their children or likely grandchildren, and it was pretty horrifying. now river blindness has been dramatically reduced partly because of jimmy carter more than anybody else. dracoma also it's is also on its way out. you don't have people in their 30s routinely going blind around the world. so many other elements of progress that we tend not to focus on. i think we in the journalistic community maybe we focus too much on the cup being half empty, and all the problems. the context is that, you know,

over all progress truly is quite remarkable. >> gavin: you have seen that from--you mentioned jimmy carter but you've seen that from a non-government agreement or more from a governance framework that is leading and supporting and dealing with these gaps. >> i think they work together. governance itself is improving in some of the worst-off areas. governance is deteriorating in the u.s. yesterday we were talking about how burma could improve relations between the military and the parliament, and they were saying, i'm not sure that the u.s. is the place to come to study improving relationships among the executive. i'm not sure that the governance in the u.s. has particularly improved. governance in africa had a

improved tremendously. those dictators who were there just to steal money they're still there in a few places but they're on their way out. civil society has been improving. and leadership has been providing accountability, checks and balances, and i think that's an useful lesson for us that if we want to improve government effectiveness, then one way to do that is to support civil society. when those people get sent off to jail, speak up. >> gavin: right, how do you define civil society in the broad sense i understand, but what do you mean by civil society specifically. >> i really mean everything, from a robust individual, a private sector, an university or education sector, we in the news media, and then of course the social organizations which could be any kind of women's

organizations, but busy empowering people. in bangladesh, for example there was a case where government is really still pretty awful, but you have the rise of groups like brack that has managed to provide a huge array of of help despite that. >> gavin: what about the air rib spring and the notion that folks are disintermediateing, and have you change that change just beyond the arab spring? you've seen technology play a roll in africa or even in places of the east, notably china and elsewhere. >> absolutely. of course, it's all relative. i remember when i lived in china in the 1980s and 1990s we would have these conversation

abouts how the fax machines were going to be transformative. now the same thing is taking place about cellphones, internet, so on. but i think that's real. i think that's really having an impact. it's having an impact in a couple of ways. governments tend to be embarrassed when they do terrible things to people. if there are going to be cellphones around shooting video, that's a really good reason not to go and beat somebody to death or shoot some dissident, open fire on crowds. a government may still do it, but they're going to think twice in a way that they didn't always before. it also gives people an ability to mobilize anonymously. it reminds people that they're not the only ones who think that their government sucks. there are a lot of people who share that view. and then i think technology can also help in all kinds of ways

that we don't even think about in mobile phones or health. now we're going to have the ability to diagnose all kinds of malaria, do ma layeran tests by mobile--do malaria test by mobile phone. the cell phone and the ability to save money on your mobile phone is hugely important. >> gavin: of course well-known for the great work you and i couldn't wife did around the challenges of tienanmen square. what progress is related to civil society. has it been marginal progress? >> in china there has been a real rise of pluralism in some ways. you know how economic pluralism. you have cultural pluralism.

what you don't have is political pluralism. people are a lot freer to talk among themselves and to say that hu jentoa say he's a turtle head, and no one is going to come after you. whereas if you go to tienanmen square and say that, you're going to be tossed into jail. there are red lines where we're a long ways from seeing progress there. when we have leaders being clubbed in the streets. that would be progress in china because we don't yet have those unions yet in china.

mild progress in environmental organizations in economic organizations, and just in the willingness of people to think freely, access information. there is progress, but the government has not bought into it nearly enough. >> gavin: do you feel that this is china's days, or cheap china is no longer cheap china and they'll have to deal with the maturity issues. >> all of the above. i'm basically a believe center china. i think that china is going to continue to become a more important nation, continue to grow. for most of history china has

been the most economy in the world, maybe the most important country in the world. we're just used to a period where it has been a much more modest country. i think it will revert, it is reverting to the traditional role. having said that, china has got huge economic challenges ahead. it's basically economic model is broken might be strong, but it's not going to work nearly as well. low wage manufacturing export is going to continue to provide 10% annual growth in the years ahead ahead. they know intellectually they got to make those changes but there are a lot of sacred cows that they'll have to execute for those changes to make place, a and they don't know how to go about that. and politically. when you have an educated middle class country people aspire for participation and their system does not provide outlets for that.

they have to make that transition to a more open political system. that is going to be pretty fraught. you also have large parts of china, tibet, that may not want to be part of china. they'll have to deal with that. it's a headache being an american boy try becoming leader of china they'll have a huge challenge on their end. >> gavin: speaking of headaches, those participations of arab spring the concern of egypt, what is your sense where things are going, what direction things are going in, in the middle east right now? >> i'm a little bit optimistic than i think a lot of americans are. i think it's going to be pretty tumultuous. i think of eastern europe after democracy came there. you know boy, it was messy.

romania after all these years. >> gavin: sure. >> 23 years is still something of a mess. having said that, i think that the system was unsustainable and that winston churchill was right about democracy i think it's going to provide a marketplace of ideas and the islamist parties if they don't deliver they'll be pushed out. people have inconsistent aspirations. they want to have a more islamic state, but they want growth, they want schools and trying to reconcile all these will be a

challenge. >> gavin: morsi aside, people come and go, parties come and go, but do you think egypt that we know today is moving in the direction of pakistan, turkey, or is it moving potentially in the direction of iran? >> i don't think that egypt is moving in the direction of iran. i hope that it's moving in the direction of turkey. i think that that would be a great thing. frankly, i hope that iran is moving in the direction of turkey too. i think it's still uncertain. i covered indonesia after democracy came there in 1998. i look back at my coverage, and i wasted a lot of ink, a lot of trees died of me talking about the risk of indonesia

instability of essentially anti-christian programs in indonesia. those were really risk, but they proved to be more resilient than we had thought at the time. i hope that it's true of egypt. i hope that egypt is moving in that direction. we'll see. >> gavin: we'll see. >> you know, it's the second inning of a long, long ballgame. >> gavin: that's a good point. what about syria. you have written columns on this and interviewed secretary of state all bright and others, you've been critical of the administration's work there. what is the answer? no-fly zone. some say no drive zone. no one is supporting troops on the ground. how do we reconcile what is going on there and what role should the united states play.

>> you know, the challenge in the world there are a lot more challenges in foreign relations than solutions. and this is a good example of that. the president's hesitant of addressing syria is understandable. syrians initially did not want us involved. there was not a good libya-style solution. >> gavin: right. >> it was very reasonable it to back off for a long time. on another hand i think what we're seeing over time is that the risks of inaction have been rising considerably, and that the poisons of syria are spilling out into other countries, destabilizeing lebanon, destabilizing iraq. i think we would be better off having this resolved more quickly. how is this going to end?

it will end with president assad out. >> gavin: are you that confident? everyone says that is inevitable. even a year ago and you continue to say it as if it's certain. there is no sign that he's sort of stabilizing things? >> i don't think so. >> gavin: what is the indication of that? >> i'm sure this will end with him out. i don't know if that's going to take the form of him retiring to some other country or if it will be other commanders pushing him out as part of a deal or the military victory and he's overrun. but i am convinced this will end with assad out. >> gavin: human trafficking is a tough subject, but nicholas kristof has done more to raise awareness for victims than most. there is a book that he wrote with his wife, and there is a new documentary because that

have book airing on pbs. he has done much to help the fight of human slavery. nicholas kristof after the break. of the presidential debate. with unrivaled analysis and commentary. >> you're going to hear that used as a major talking point. (vo) the only network with real-time reaction straight from the campaigns and from viewers like you. >> now that's politially direct. >>start the night with a special live edition of "talking liberally with stephanie miller" at 7 eastern. only on current tv.

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>>there's not a problem that exists in america today that hasn't been solved by somebody somewhere. >>(narrator) share your views with gavin at politicallydirect.com, a direct line to the gavin newsom show. >>focus on the folks that are making a difference, that are not just dreamers, but doers. >>(narrator) join the conversation. >> gavin: my guest is "new york times" columnist nicholas

kristof. the topic is why he's so passionate about fighting human trafficking and how he got the white house involved. >> gavin: you were in the clinton global initiative. president obama came in and took the time, interestingly to give a speech focused on human trafficking, something very near and dear a topic for you. were you surprised coming from the u.n. assembly, that he would take the entire focus of the speech on human trafficking? >> i was thrilled. one of the frustrations is that nobody pays attention to it. i have a friend who was trafficked herself, and we all kind of knew this was coming, we heard about it. she couldn't sleep the night before. she stayed up all night and was texting friends at 4:00 a.m. and these kids who were trafficked, whether they were trafficked in the bay area or trafficked in

india, they are the most voiceless of the voiceless. and to have the president of the united states use his pulpit to shine a light on that, to promise resources to announce kind of the 21st century version of the emancipation proclamation boy, that was a moment. now it's our job to hold president obama's feet to the fire, and make sure that he differs,delivers those resources continue to get there and he shines that light. to me it really feels like 21st century slavery. i'm sure people hear that and think, oh hiberbowl. if you see these girls and the tattoos that their pimps have tattooed on them. a girl had her eyes gauged out. what is that but slavery.

>> gavin: when you were writing this best-selling book that it would have this tale? it's a cause, it's a movement, a website, it's phenomenal. everything about this is getting bigger and bigger. >> sheryl and i have been dazzled by the success of it. this was an issue we really cared about, so we decided to write it, but we thought that basically of our moms reading it. it has been just exciting to see the book take off and then the problem with a book is essentially people who read it are people who already care about an issue. we want to go beyond the choir. so this documentary on pbs to us it's an effort to build a much bigger audience, to expose people. i think once people watch see what's going on, see first

having their genitals cut because they are a girl in ways that risk their lives when they bear children down the road, kids--girls not going to school, being trafficked, once they see a human face to that, i think they'll be galvanized. the last part of that is facebooking which came out november 13th. you know, that is meant to be a very low barrier entry to get people who don't care about this issue at all but can be lured into facebooking by the viral nature of social gaming, and again, once they're exposed to these issues, i think that we can reach them and ultimately the metric of success and the people who play the facebook game or watch the documentary the resources that flow into the anti-trafficking organizations whether into india

san francisco, new york, the number of girls who get $15 to buy an uniform so they can go to school in malawi, all of these grassroots response. that's our aim. >> gavin: congratulations on the success of that, and the commitment and follow through nicholas, thank you. >> my pleasure. thanks. >> gavin: thank you. >> gavin: nicholas kristof is doing more than his part to eliminate conflict and challenge around the world today. but way off the headlines you will there is a little known entity spending billions to help businesses in the marketplace. learn more about the imports-export bank after the break. president gore, watch the only truly experienced presidential debate coverage.

>>i jump out of my skin at people when i'm upset. do you share the sense of outrage that they're doing this,

this corruption based on corruption based on corruption. >>i think that's an understatement, eliot. u>> i'm not prone tot. understatement, so explain to me why that is. i think the mob learned from wall st., not vice versa. [ ♪ theme music ♪ ] >> gavin: fred hochberg is a businessman, and he is head over one the most under reported banks. the import export. it's mission is simple to create jobs at home to increase the market lace for products abroad. i asked why this bank is not a household name. >> gavin: no one knows what this is, but it is one of the most powerful and important financing mechanisms for business in the united states.

>> some people think we're tv. >> gavin: are we rebranding? what is it. >> we're a long time and acknowledgment that exports were harder to finance harder to create sales overseas and to create good jobs. that's what we do. not so much u.s. jobs, create be jobs here in the united states, and by exporting our products overseas. everything from large boeing aircraft to hair care products from san monica. >> gavin: so you fill a void between trillion banks who don't want the political risks money? >> there are a couple of things that get in the way. one, some products are hard to finance. airplanes, satellites, they're big, and banks are not in the business to making loans past

five years these days. sometimes it's products. i was in mongolia, south africa, mozambique columbia, they're harder markets. sometimes it's the market. sometimes it's the product. and generally frankly small business is harder no matter where it is, even in this country. we do a lot of small business. almost 90% of our customers are small businesses. about 20 there's of the dollars. the rest are difficult products to finance or hard countries to finance. >> gavin: as a consequence is there risk--is there a risk ratio, i mean, what kind of loan repayments do you have? >> well, i'm very proud of the studio thatthat we have. our write-offs are better than commercial banks. we're backed by the united states government, so the interest rate is lower. and secondly, it's not a good idea to default on the u.s.

government. bad idea. >> gavin: what kind of loan, your portfolio looks how big. >> right now we're over $100 billion. president obama asked for $140 billion. congress did the approval of the portfolio. we're as high as 140. we're totally self sustaining. we elect fees for our work. it pays all of our own officers administrative costs and gavin in the last five years we've exported 1 mcdonald million dollars in extra revenue and gave it to the taxpayers for a reduction. >> gavin: yet it's political football. you got caught up on capitol hill for a two-year extension. what is the politics of that. was it something that was obviously just a negotiating

ploy to take something that is popular and successful, and just play in terms that have leverage game? >> there are those on capitol hill, it is a minority, but they are able to stop things that say there is no role for government. the private sector should do everything. government has no role. there is no place for government. i don't subscribe for that. president obama doesn't subscribe to that. you know, we're financing products in south africa, mozambique because i was just there last month with secretary clinton. we lent money so g.e. could sale locomotives to the railroad of south africa. we had one bank that would do it and that was only with our backing. we got a small company called cast industries in springfield illinois that sells fishers lures. there are not a lot of people who want to back that transaction. it's $10,000 a tradition year. so everything from $10,000 of

fishing lures to locomotives. government does have a role. we would like to have as light a footprint as possible. so we only step in when the private sector does not want to go there. >> gavin: the president announced doubling exports. where are we in that goal. >> we're making progress towards that. we'll have to see how things shape out with what is going on in china europe. we've seen the strong growth in the mideast from power plants to chemical plants to mining interests in australia. aircraft sales are strong. we're making progress in country after country. our exports in china are going at a faster rate than the rest of the world. >> gavin: what is the rest of the country brazil, china, do you see other merging markets. >> asia is very strong. india is a very strong market for renewable energy.

they have a mission putting renewable to the forefront. south africa, i was just there they have a plant by 20% 30% 40% of their power be renewable. we sign a memory memory memorandum that if you buy american products we'll back it. and sub-sahara africa is growing strongly. seven of the ten fastest markets fast growing markets are there. asia is shifting more to consumer spending. that's a giant shift and that's going to be a hard shift for that country. >> gavin: we'll take a quick break. when we come back, fred hochberg an obama supporter tells us how

the white house is helping the nonpartisan bank double its business. of the presidential debate. with unrivaled analysis and commentary. >> you're going to hear that used as a major talking point. (vo) the only network with real-time reaction straight from the campaigns and from viewers like you. >> now that's politially direct. >>start the night with a special live edition of "talking liberally with stephanie miller" at 7 eastern. only on current tv.

>> gavin: we're back with fred hochberg chairman of the import export bank. >> gavin: when you look at the risk assessment, are you working collaboratively with other federal agencies. do you engage in the state department and nuance and understand? how do the collaborations work with other federal agencies. >> totally when we make a credit assessment we're working with the statement department,

treasury the commerce department these are u.s. employees of the commerce department in countries so we know what is going on in those countries. we can go to the imf the world bank. there are 20, 21 databases we're collecting to make sure that the character and reputation is proper and so we can go forward with financing. >> gavin: you're not without critics, we talked a little bit about the issues of federal governments, but i imagine some of the critique must come from people who don't like who you loan to. there has been controversy backing coal plants and controversy i imagine in the post solendra world that so and so is getting something. you got to be above all of that and impenetrateible in terms of that critique. >> first of all the bank is

very bipartisan organization. there is a chair appointed by the president. the president points four of the board members. two of his party two of the other party so we have a bipartisan board number one. when it comes to power and carbon and renewable energy, we have strict environmental standards. we comply with world bank, their entire standards, so we're in full compliance of that. if the project has too high a carbon footprint we require offsets. it's a very rigorous processing to through. in terms of renewable energy remember we're providing credit to the buyer. so it's the buyer we're looking at their financial wherewithal and their ability to repay more than the original exporter. that helps in a number of ways. one, it helps the start-up companies. if they don't have the credit, we're looking at the credit of their customers. frankly in the next 20 years i can't find anybody who thinks we

will not need more renewable energy. i mean, we need more renewable energy. we need more resources. one way to get u.s. companies up to scale is open the global market to them so they don't rely just on our market. it brings them up to scale, brings the costs down and that's a win-win for american power users and exporters. >> gavin: i read roughly doubled the amount of loans on the renewable sign. >> we're at three-quarters of a billion dollars. it's up 20 times from before that. it's a tough market right now. that market hit some head winds frankly. usual has slowed down enormously. china has been flooding the markets with solar panels. that's a tough market in the next year or two. at least in my view. >> gavin: you're in the middle of an election year. you have a very successful business background. you worked at the small business

administration. the last few years the bank. what happens--what's the mindset for your staff in the election year where things could change dramatically in the next couple of months. how do you manage in this realm versus the private realm where you have more-- >> well, we have elections every four years and they know whether the president is elected or re-elected, they go with that general program. but you know, i was so fortunate to inherit an incredible superb staff that is as good as any i've seen in the private sector. >> gavin: is that party line? it's that exceptional. >> we wouldn't have the kind of write-off rates that we have if we didn't have an exceptional staff. we've made $14 billion in loans. last year was over $32 billion--we more than doubled it with hardly perhaps a

5% to 6% increase in staff. we've doubled the business, the 5% increase in staff and we'll have another record-setting year. >> gavin: in terms of your challenge, is it just awareness that the average small business doesn't appreciate they're in a position to dramatically expand their business looking outside of the united states where 98% of the customers lie? what is your job besides the actual transaction itself. >> one of the things we've done, gavin, is we've done 40 global access forms. we've gone around the country. we did one with you. >> gavin: in fresno. >> that's where we're building awareness. the president has used a large megaphone, if you're a business owner, if you're going to be happy with 2% to 3% growth don't export. if you want more than 2% a year you need to look at foreign markets. i think that has certainly

broaden. that's one of the reasons why we're doing so well. more companies are exporting to more merging markets, which is tougher, and we still have a big banking crisis. a number of those things, but i would say the biggest issue that we still face as you identified is still awareness. too many companies i find the same thing in brazil. a large company. 200 million people. they speak portuguese. the rest of latin america speaks spanish, and they have a low level of exports considering it's gdp like the united states. >> gavin: what world are we living in? how would you describe the world today. >> i already used the word interconnected. it's enormously interconnected in the sense that everything is competing with everything else. if you're going to build a product and sell a product in one country, if the business climate is not right if there is too much corruption, they will move some place else.

that and i will tell you the one thing i've seen in the three years running this job president obama has changed the view of america abroad. we are a welcomed trading partner. a welcome country to do business with. people respect the kind of innovation and the quality of our products. american companies stand behind their products. we exported engineering services, which is people don't think of it as an expert to south africa. we created jobs in kansas city, and it's creating in the range of 16,000 jobs in south africa when they built that. we're on a commercial basis. we care about american jobs, but we're creating a lot of good jobs and a lot of good will in country after country around the world. >> gavin: mr. chairman, thank you for coming on the show. >> thanks a lot. >> gavin: you would think it's obvious. of course we have to export products and grow markets around

the world to participate in the global economy. fled fred's mission is to finance small business and help them grow. it has to be the core of our economic policy. in nicholas kristof's view of the world it's inspiring. he notes we're making progress despite gloomy headlines from everything in violent conflicts and climate change. yet there is so much work that needs to be done. we need moil makers and business owners to work together in public and private sectors and we need to see what works and what doesn't. i endorsed a california ballot initiative that could close $1 billion tax loophole in our state. if passed in november, the california clean energy jobs act will give local businesses better abilities to create new jobs in our state. we need to step up our game every way we can. that's all for now. please help the conversation on our web page, facebook, twitter and google plus.

have a great night. (vo) here's how you can connect with the gavin newsom show. >>i'm an outsider in the inside. ideas are the best politics. [ voice of dennis ] allstate. with accident forgiveness, they guarantee your rates won't go up just because of an accident. smart kid. [ voice of dennis ] indeed. are you in good hands? ♪ just put a little bit of yourself ♪ ♪ in everything you do ♪ [ female announcer ] add your own ingredients to hamburger helper for a fresh take on a quick, delicious meal. it's one box with hundreds of possibilities. [ male announcer ] with over 50 delicious choices of green giant vegetables it's easy to eat like a giant... ♪ ♪ and feel like a green giant.

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