>> john: six months after reiterating gays and lesbians have no place in the scouts and neff will, the national board might let local scouting groups decide their own policies. only last july, the organization said it would keep barring openly gay people saying same-sex relations don't mesh with the scouting oath to be "morally straight." that always seemed more like a pun than a reason. but what made the board start rethinking discrimination now? well maybe corporate donors such as intel that have been putting on a lot of pressure or maybe

it's the million plus signatures that supported ending the bigoted ban or maybe the scout law itself. which does require scouts to be friendly courteous kind and brave. but is it really brave if the bigotry is still optional? joining me is zach wahls an eagle scout whose speech defending his two moms' right to marry went heroicically viral. he's author of the book "my two moms." it is a pleasure. no big secret, zach, when it comes to gay rights, the boy scouts have been in the wilderness for quite a long time. how important a change is this? can we call this reform when they're still going to allow any chapters to be as bigoted as they want to be? >> absolutely. reform in the right direction. definitely a step. when the news broke yesterday, we were all very excited and tepidly optimistic. we think that this is a step forward as you said, it was just last july that they said there would be no change any time

soon. our organization said at that same time, this is what they're going to say literally up until the day they change the policy. we weren't quite right. five days before they ended up change the policy. it has been a long process to get to where we are. even though the discrimination will still be optional if not required at the local level less discrimination broadly speaking is a good thing. >> john: i like how you view it. how could this actually work? would there be different rules in different states or even towns and let's say there was a national meeting or a jamboree, what would happen then? would there be any kind of way to bar certain members from coming in if it was in a homophobic ordained zone? >> sure. i'm sure they'll be establishing those kind of zones. the way it is going to work at the local level -- it won't necessarily be from town to town. it could be in the same town. each one has a sponsor unit, a charter organization. under this proposed policy change, the charter organizations and sometimes

they're churches, civic groups, they're schools. these charter organizations will have the ability to set membership policy. so it seems likely that some charter organizations perhaps the mormon church or the catholic church might continue to prohibit gays and participating but it looks to us that the majority of charter organization civic groups, more mainstream christian nominations will be welcoming gays with open arms because as we've seen at the local level a ban on gay members can be very devastating and you look at all of the reasons there was a change over the last six months, one of the things we were able to do was to amplify the voices of scout leaders using an awesome online tool called change.org to help them gather the million plus signatures you mentioned in the intro and make the bsa national board understand how big of an impact the ban is having at the local level. >> john: you do get a lot of credit for spearheading the effort with the petition. what do you think really caused the boy scouts to begin to reconsider their policy after only six months? >> yeah, well this goes back to

the -- frankly earlier but in 2000, a supreme court case, bsa added the court ruled in the 5-4 decision, they were to discriminate -- continue to discriminate against gay people. what we've seen since then are two things. one, there has been a titanic shift in terms of where lgbt people think the future of this country is going to go. in 2000, it was unsure where marriage equality was going to go, where unemployment on marriage discrimination was going to go. we're moving in a very positive direction if you support lgbt equality. second, like i mentioned earlier, the ability of these online organizing, whether it is change.org social media facebook twitter that sort of thing, the ability of scouts all over the country to connect with each other in a way that frankly, even a decade ago wasn't possible. really changed the game. >> john: boy scouts have historically played a central role in many communities. do you still see that happening? what do kids in 2013 still get from the scouts? >> absolutely.

i grew up as a boy scout. i joined the cub scouts when i was like 7. then i was in the program until about 18, graduated out of the program. i had an incredibly enriching experience. my moms took a great length to instill in me good values. those are reinforced. still, in fact, this is -- my best friend is an eagle scout. we live together still. interestingly enough, with another eagle. it is a little idic louse. we have some great experiences. given we live in society that is so focused on technology and being indoors having that opportunity to get outside live outdoors and really have the outdoor experiences invaluable now more than ever. >> john: only about ten seconds left, once this happens what's the next battle? >> we're look at making sure local councils and regional governing bodies are put in place nondiscrimination policies to encourage charter organizations to do the right ching. >> john: you're a credit to your moms and the scouts. thank you for your service.

zach wahl, thank you for the insights. fox news and rush limbaugh single-handedly battle immigration reform. will no one help them? my panel of nonexperts talk all about it next. first, let's check out what's happening on "say anything" with joy behar. >> joy: thanks, john. next on "say anything," we have the two tough talking legal eagles of the hit show staten island law. we'll get their take on the difference between divorce and annulment and what will become of kim kardashian's infamous 72-day marriage. >> he want this dream of getting married again. he really wants her erased from his past. >> is he really religious though? because if you're not really religious, now you're creating a problem. >> you know why it's not right for mediation? they're not in the right head, either one of them. >> joy: plus comedy legend alan zweibel talks about his experience talking about launching "saturday night live." and my political panel talks

about who will enter the 2016 presidential race. more john fuglesang right after the break. what we need are people prepared for the careers of our new economy. by 2025 we could have 20 million jobs without enough college graduates to fill them. that's why at devry university we're teaming up with companies like cisco to help make sure everyone is ready with the know-how we need for a new tomorrow. [ male announcer ] make sure america's ready. make sure you're ready. at devry.edu/knowhow. ♪ ♪

>> john: thank you, god for rush limbaugh and our friends at fox news. if it wasn't for them, the tyrant obama would get away with this whole fascist socialist kenyan agenda. when it comes to immigration nothing stands in king obama's way. well almost nothing. >> thanks to obama now you have amnesty unless you get convicted of a major felony. so i don't know that there's any stopping this. it's up to me and fox news and i

think fox news has invested in this. >> john: it is not only immigration reform. they have worked tirelessly to protect us from equal rights for women and marriage equality and any kind of sensible gun control. thank you, rush for protecting us just like the oxy oxycontin flects you from the pain of being who you really are. comedian kevin mccaffrey editor and chief of the editor, tina dupuy and mr. christian finnegan. he says he and fox news are all that stands between obama's agenda and america. the sad question, isn't he kind of right? >> yeah. that's the definition of conservative right? someone who yells no more brown people. i think that's pretty much -- >> it already sounds like the worst avengers enough of all time. rush and fox news just keeping obama away from america. >> yes. rush and a recent immigrant

rupert murdoch are going to keep us all safe from other immigrants. >> john: i hear them accusing obama of amnesty. if you don't like amnesty don't you have to throw out your ronald reagan love doll because he gave real amnesty, not obama. >> let us remember that cubans get automatic amnesty for just arriving on our shores. so again, marco rubio is not actually the best person to do that. >> john: the asylum kind. that's the sacred loophole. is it a good sign that fox and rush are acknowledging they are not just propaganda, they're a legitimate wing of the republican party. >> it is one of those things that everyone knew so much anyway. it is like when lance armstrong comes out. i cheated. we know. we've known for awhile. but like no one's gone to -- >> a neutral view on this issue. >> george michael's gay? >> i think the g.o.p. is a functioning wing of fox news, you know. the tail is wag the rabid

elderly, overweight dog. >> john: david krum came out and said fox news has gone from being a part of the republican party to running the republican party. and doesn't that hurt them? doesn't the does not outrage cycle of fox news serve to image nallize the g.o.p., get off my lawn whippersnapper party? >> it hurts the g.o.p. >> fox only needs two million people to tune in every night. the g.o.p. needs oh, i don't know, half the country to actually vote them into office. so they are at an advantage -- fox news is at an advantage and the g.o.p. is not. >> john: they like to brag that their ratings make them popular. but then again there's spongebob. fox news is a profit seam for rupert murdoch to make more money. he had to apologize after the sunday times of london ran this cartoon showing israeli prime minister benjamin yet ya you had building a wall trapping the

bodies of suffering palestinians. then rupert murdoch tweeted. we love when he does that about the cartoon's artist saying gerald scarfe has never reflected the opinions of the sunday times. nevertheless we owe major apology for grotesque offensive cartoon. so if the u.s., fox and murdoch's empire is -- doesn't this prove that murdoch who held a fund-raiser for hillary clinton who described himself as liberal, has no core ideology beyond making a buck? >> he's procapitallist. >> i love old navy. i love banana republic. they're the same company. he's never represented our views. well, he's employed by you! >> exactly i can see you not reading someone's entire article so maybe the last paragraph is racy. this is a cartoon. dude, you can see it. it's right there! >> it's not like some ecards,

user generated content. some editor has to decide yes let's put this ad in our paper. >> he apologized via tweet which means he means it. for real. >> john: it is really him too. you know i guess he could apologize by writing me an e-mail. god knows he's probably hacked into it. speaking of people who think they have more power than they really do, shifting gears just a bit. grover norquist, savor it. grover norquist anti-tax pledge is being picked up by a group in italy called tea party italia. is that because that's where fascism began or they saw how well it worked here? >> it sounds like a dance club. >> john: tom hanks is doing the remaining. >> i want a branch in russia. i think any kind of empire should have a tea party there. >> the italian tea party will be far better dressed. the tricorner hat will be tilted to the side.

>> it makes since they would be getting the tea party in europe. our fads go there when we're done with them, you know. they're probably just getting season one of fresh prince now. they're still wearing acid-wash jeans. >> john: neon is going to break any day. it is a good point you know. when you consider the point that like this whole notion of not paying any taxes freedom isn't tree but don't ask me to pay for it. a is that stupid enough to catch on with our european allies? >> my stepsister lives in italy. that country is a mess. i'm not saying -- maybe some sort of counter weight over there might not be a terrible idea. that country is about four years away from being a giant olive garden. it needs something. >> john: they are the best argument against coalition governments. it is true. third party is like 400 third parties over there. you can live with your mom until you're 50. senator ron johnson in the news after being schooled by hillary clinton in the benghazi hearings

gave an interview where he said there were many parallels between ayn rand's novel where society's wealthiest citizens go on strike to protest high taxes and america today. if the wealthiest americans went on strike, who would be affected? the tuxedo industry? the guys who make monocles? what would happen if the wealthiest people decided to do no labor? >> that's what currently is going -- you make the money so you make other people work. >> i love this. we lost allen west. and now we have ron johnson. thank you so much for the intellectual leader of the republican party to finally come forward. >> john: i've interviewed the man. he does make allen west look like socrates. he's using that as a parallel for the rich being taxed too high. ayn rand published that in 1967 when the rich were taxed at over a 90% rate. it is 39%. what are they whining about? >> i'm surprised he doesn't

think this is in the nonfiction section. i think we have to give him credit for knowing this is a parable and not history. >> this is a guy -- he literally bought a statue of atlas because he's so into atlas. he's probably been making comparisons to atlas shrugs for years. >> john: almost naked muscular man. >> any problem that comes up in his life, his olive garden order is wrong this is just like atlas shrugs. >> what is wrong with wisconsin? we have -- like what makes -- all of that cheese make you want to read ayn rand? >> john: there's a lot of good progressives in wisconsin and they organized last year. i know what you're saying. they did re-elect ron paul to the congress. speak of ron paul -- i mean paul ryan. >> a lot of rones. >> we're talking ayn rand. >> john: what is the ron paul,

paul ryan obsession with ayn rand. if ayn rand were alive, she would hate them for their religion and christianity? >> i stliez with people who love ayn rand because i was a college freshman once myself. it is totally a phase. it is hilarious to me to hear people say i'm a fundamentalist christian and i like ayn rand. that's like saying i love reese's cups but i hate chocolate. it is one of the two ingredients. >> john: we'll get a fox news history lesson that will surprise you because it's completely made up and false.

>> john: what's one way fox news helps america? mr. mccaffrey.

>> i'm a comedian and writer so they keep me employed. they provide content and help keep me off the unemployment line. >> john: tina? >> someone needs to give gorgeous blond anchorwomen a job. >> christian? >> before the era of fox news, america's eyebrow grooming habits were way out of whack. now we have the waxing techniques of a brian kilmeade. we're in a brow-topia. >> john: as you know, fox news is so powerful, they're able to cover both fictional and nonfictional news with the same journalistic rigger. they also provide us with much-needed lessons in history. after president obama told new republic this last weekend that fox news exerts pressure on any republican who might ever compromise with them so the government might, you know, do stuff, fox news contributor peter the only thing to keep

america free. >> the job of fox news is to go after policies and to go after politicians in a constructive way. fox news has the best reporters in america and the best commentators and thinkers in america. if that upsets the president of the united states or the democratic leadership, then so be it. that is the bull work of our democracy. ask thomas jefferson. look at our history. without a free press there's not a free america. without a free fox, there's not a free america. fair and balanced means something, especially in a media that's in the tank. >> john: somebody really wants uncle rupert to give him a contract. well, i gotta say, thank you peter johnson. not just for having a name that's doubly phallic but for reminding us that america is a freedom loving nation that never got any freedom until october 7 1996 when roger ailes liberty loving network put an end to 220

years of o'reilly free tyranny 1781, bring it up. general george washington defeats cornwallace. in about 215 years, as soon as media monday on laci peterson is get regulated. january, 1863, abraham lincoln signs the emancipation proclamation. telling america's slaves you are finally free. until 1996. 1920 american women win suffrage but continue suffering for another