>> so we thank you for being with us today. i'm speaking for all of us. we're going to spend the weekend buying a tee shirt of better style. >> tie dye! >> enjoy your superbowl even though as they have chris culliver, i am going to say go 49ers. we will see you on monday. rather violent video games and violent movies and mental illness. this is why this is the access of scapegoat.

today is the birthday of jacki robinson. carol channing is 92, and john lydon aka johnny rotten of the sex pistols is 57 p. and 148 years ago today congress passed the 13th amendment, which made it possible for the greatest actor alive to play four greatest president ever, oh, it abolished slavery too. this is "viewpoint." >> john: good evening, i'm john fugelsang. thank you for watching "viewpoint." coming up chaos in the g.o.p. as republicans split on immigration. a new movie asks if a convicted activist was really a cop killer as charged or really a political prisoner and why should the nra draw the line at your right to own assault weapons when rocket launchers need love, too. but first, senator chuck hagel

may be a decorateed vietnam veteran, successful businessman and twice-elected republican senator from nebraska. but he ran into a little trouble on the capitol hill today. hagel testified before the armed services committee, which will have to pass onties nomination to be president obama's secretary of defense. >> i'm on the record of many issues but no one individual vote. no one individual quote. no one individual statement defines me, my beliefs or my record. >> john: were hagel then stated his beliefs as they applied to his nomination. >> america has and must maintain the strongest military in the world. that we must lead in the international community to confront threats and challenges together. i believe and i always have believed that america must engage in the world not retreat from the world but engage from the world. my record is consistent on these points.

>> john: now that i may sound like a mainstream, boiler-plate statement of american aims, but if you believe some committee republicans today senator hagel's record ranges from dangerously radical to terribly wrong on some of the biggest issues of the day. >> senator hagel's record is deeply troubling and out of the mainstream. too often he's willing to subscribe to a worldwide view predicated on appeasing our adversaryies while shunning our friends. >> will you please answer the question. were you correct or incorrect when you said that the surge would be the most dangerous foreign policy blunder in this country since vietnam were you correct or incorrect yes or no. >> my reference to the surge being the most dangerous-- >> are you going to answer the question senator hagel? the question is whether you were right or wrong. that's pretty straightforward question. >> well, i'm not going to give

you a yes or no answer. >> you refused to answer that question. >> you said the jewish lobby intimidates a lot of people up here i'm not an israeli senator. i'm an united states senator. this pressure makes us do dumb things at times. you said the jewish lobby that term should not have been used. it should have been some other term. name one person in your opinion who is intimidated by the israeli lobby in the united states senate. >> well, first-- >> name one. >> i don't know. >> well why would you say it. >> i didn't have in mind a specific person. >> you're listed as a co-author of that may 2012 global zero report on our nuclear posture. i believe there is a recommendation in there, a and i believe the recommendation is to drastically reduce the united states nuclear forces.

>> that report was not a recommendation. that report as we have said in the report was a series of scenarios. >> john: republicans beating up a republican. for more on today's hearing and senator hagel's nomination to be our next defense senator i'm honored to be joined by former ambassador thomas pickering who in his distinguished career has served his country as ambassador to the u.n. russia, israel, india, el salvador among others. ambassador pickering is also a member of the council on foreign relations co-author with senator hagel of global zero report on u.s. nuclear policy. that came in for some tough detroitcriticism and you worked with senator chuck hagel. what kind of defense secretary

do you think he would be? >> i think he would an superb defense secretary. he has made clear in these hearingshearings under difficult circumstances that he's mainstream and he supports what the president sports--supports. i think he has carefully calculated and honest views in how and what we should be proceeding in the world. we are part of it. we clearly need a defense second to none in this particular issue. but we also have to be thoughtful about how we move ahead. i think he's conscious as we all are of the fact that expenditures are going to go down in the days ahead and he will be called upon to make difficult judgments for the president. i have every confidence from my knowledge of him that he will give the president the correct and proper adjustment. >> you called him a man of independent judgment. it seems that's what he was being punished for up on capitol hill. do you think that they were

pillaring on him a bit? >> i think they were because in fact, he is not a tea party person. he is a main line person. he was talking main line views. there are republicans with main line views although it was hard to find them in the senate today. >> john: we just showed them crit sighing governor hagel over that report. you are a co-author of that report. what does it say drastic reductions in nuclear weapons. >> absolutely not. bringing nuclear weapons down between russia and the united states, after which they would be joined by all the other nuclear powers in an effort to continue what presidents from nixon, reagan began carter and clinton have done over the years, negotiating a lower

number of nuclear weapons and delivery vehicles to provide more stability and more safety and more security to the united states. >> john: well, senator hagel is accused in so not so many words of being soft on iran for refusing to vote on a bill of unilateral sanctions on that country. do you have any opinion on those votes and do you think senator hagel is soft on iran in any way? >> of course not. you just heard him say at the hearings today that we should keep all of our options open, including the military option. if a he agreed with the president on the statement that iran should not have a nuclear weapon. but he also says we should use military force as a last resort, and we should certainly exhaust all of the other opportunities all the other alternatives before we move to another war in the middle east. and it seems to me that makes a great deal of sense. that was certainly the predicate

of the non-exchange he had with senator mccain. how would a surge make sense when you oppose the war in the first place? and obviously he made it very clear in the hearing that 1200 more americans died during the surge. i find it hard frankly to see what we achieve during that accept the opportunity as you have known to leave iraq by 2011 with some safety. >> john: it certainly seemed at times the hearings was a referendum on the iraq war itself and not the senator's record. but chuck hagel was harshly criticized by senator graham and cruz for not disputing hard enough against al-jazeera that israel committed war crimes. he felt that each nation had a right to defend itself. how will those comments be received in israel.

>> well, i was ambassador to israel for three and a half years. i believe i know the country well. the first thing i'll tell you that israel about these issues are quite fierce and go way beyond what the colloquies were today. secondly, i have no doubt that senator hagel supports israel, a strong israel and safety. in the course of that, he like many israelis, perhaps the majority, believes that a long-term two-state solution would be better than under potential perpetual siege. many who have been in the region support the american policy, president in president out seek a negotiated solution in the region with secure and

recognized boundaries for israel and which at the same time can provide the palestinians their opportunity as well to have a state in the region. >> john: and of course the two-state solution has been the position of the last three administrations of this country. >> it is the position of president benjamin netanyahu believe it or not. >> john: indeed, it is. did any of the criticisms seem personal to you? >> i think some of them had that personal edge. i'm sorried that interfered. i've been through this process nine times with a lot less notoriety, happily. but it is there, it is part of our constitution. people have a right to ask these questions. the individual being questioned should have a full right to explain that was not necessarily accordinged to senator hagel today. i thought he was thoughtful. i thought he was careful.

i thought he wanted to do his best to convey as clearly as he could his views and opinions on these criminal issues--on these critical issues and i think he was able to despite what we saw what i thought was an edgy onlot. >> john: thank you for being here. i hope you will come back the next time you're here in new york: now i'm joined by heather hurlburh executive director of the national security network and speechwriter to president clinton and david shuster. great to have you here. heather, were there any surprises for you today? did you expect the republicans to be as aggressive as they got? >> no, i really was stunned by the tone not so much by the personalness of it, but bitterness of it as if some of the senate forgot that the whole

country was watching and there were troops in afghanistan and the fight in mali to talk about. the degree to which they let themselves get bogged down on, as you said, relitigating the iraq war and refighting some the security challenges of the 20th century instead of the 21st surprised me. >> did it surprise you? >> no there were a lot of scores to settle today. to question the iraq war the surge. many republicans felt he went too garbage then, now all of a sudden he has a plum job being secretary of defense which is better than senate, and they're angry that he has leapfrogged over him. >> john: here is a comment from john mccain. >> members of this committee will raise questions reflecting concerns with your policy

position. they're not reasonable people disagreeing. they are fundamental disagreements. >> john: that's the man who thought sarah palin was qualified to be leader of the free world. are his position really far out from mainstream on capitol hill. >> the first thing bewildering was that it was not that long ago that john mccain was running for president and suggesting that chuck hagel would make a great secretary of defense. if there is anyone who has turned on his previous beliefs i don't think it's chuck hagel. the interesting thing hagel has been endorsed by dozens of retired generals admirals. the views of being an honest broker to find a solution to the two-state israel-palestine conflict and the pentagon reform needs to be on the table

that we have more nuclear weapons than we need in the 21st century. those are all very mainstream views among national security experts and the american people at large. what is going on here is you have some republicans not trying to redefine the mainstream out from under the american people. >> john: i can't help but think that john mccain and chuck hagel once voted for donald rumsfeld not long ago. now you spent time on the campaign. what was their relationship then. >> the relationship was closer--it was close really from the beginning. back in the 1999 when i was a correspondent for a network we won't name in which john mccain and chuck hagel and then secretary cohen, a bunk of us reporters went to brussels. there was john mccain chatting with the brass and he would make time for chuck hagel. he said give time to my friend

chuck hagel who was a new senator who we thought didn't know anything about foreign policy. now he's the first to endorse mccain's candidacy against george w. bush. they're close at the beginning of the war and then it starts to fall apart as the war falls apart and there is criticism about it. in 2008 chuck hagel did not endorse mccain. >> john: his wife endorsed obama, too. were you surprised by the low energy of chuck hagel today on the stand? many people felt he was coached by whoever coached barack obama on his first debate. >> well, you know it reminded me of the joke of the corpse at the wake, that is not to get in the way of drinking and remembering. this is a strange combination of meet the parents and a job interfere where you got to be sure to be unobjectionable, and you have to work with these same

people who are berating you to make your tenture a success and you know these hearings are more about them getting a sound bite for their district back home with their interests or their nuclear weapons plan in it, and they're unfortunately not so much about educating anybody on serious issues that we face. so from that perspective senator hagel's demeanor was entirely understandable, and i can't even begin to imagine how incredibly it mustfrustrating it must have been for him. heather hurlburt and david schuster. be will he be confirmed? >> he'll be confirmed.

>> john: welcome back to "viewpoint." and its time for the thing of the day. tonight's thing is the unrequited love of the day. in the interest of dr. phil part of which aired today. a man admitted that he loved manti teo. if you're looking for someone to love you back, maybe don't pretend to be a girl for two years. it might lead to unpleasantness. and speaking of un unpleasanten. the war is breaking out own

immigration war between tea party extremists and republicans who like getting re-elected because they're in states with growing latino populations. quote. any action in the senate to approve such a reform effort is likely to kick off an interparty war in the house. that will make the battles in the g.o.p. caucus over the fiscal cliff debt ceiling taxing to be a walk in the park on sunday. while on a state level the g.o.p. extremists can't get out of the way from their own radicalism in virginia ken cucinelli or c uch has he is known. he writes, quote creating government dependency is the typical method of operation for big government statists. also to put a cher on on top of the dysfunction, the mississippi

legislature has created a new law. an idea as archaic as it is unconstitutional. joining me now is rick unger whose piece we just quoted. thankthank you for being here. >> always a pleasure. >> always a pleasure having you. will it be an effective wedge to break open the g.o.p. they tried it in the 47% class it didn't work but now they're able to split the party. >> i think the democrats will have nothing to do with it. the republicans will do this all on which are own with an exist from the tea party. >> how so? >> this is a perfect setup for what was inevitable, and this is going to be the great shoot out at the o.k. corral. assume that this bill makes it to the senate. what is going to happen when it gets to the house?

this is what you have to realize. while republicans have decided what is going to save their party is this appeal to hispanic americans just because they passed immigration surely now every hispanic is going to vote republican. >> mm-hmm. >> this is the great savior. tea party members of congress couldn't care less about saving the american party. this is one of their four main issues. >> john: they just want to be reelected. >> they could careless who wins for president. >> john: and they have a ton of latinos in their district. >> they couldn't careless. and it goes on--for them it goes beyond just who their constituentcy is. they care about this issue. republicans don't. we all know why the republicans are doing it. the tea party will drive them crazy, and this will be the schism. >> john: do the democrats really care? do democrats really care or is it win-win for them if they pass reforms, great. if not, they can point to the

g.o.p. and blame them for the election cycle and get votes. >> it's a win-win. you have to poll each one and make your own determination if they care. but the reality is they have the record on their side. >> john: let's move on to virginia. is it smart to align yourself in a right wing if you're in a state that voted for obama in the last two elections. >> it may be for the nomination but not for the next governor. >> john: if you're so ideologically rigid to the right you will go ahead primaried? >> well, yeah. this goes back to what we were just discussing. this is the choice that republicans will have on the immigration issue. they have to try and save their party and face being primaried. or say forget about who is going to be president. i got to save my own butt and avoid the primary. this is the same thing in virginia. it's not necessarily every state. virginia is unique. >> john: but it's a trend that

is choking on your own purity test. >> well then, there you go. i can tell you the mainstream, i when i say mainstream in virginia i'm not talking about the republican legislature but the mainstream republican party is not happy about this book that cooch has coming out. >> john: is sovereignty the next best thing to success secession. i think going if a far to the right is a fundraising tool. >> this is just one of many measures around the country goes to show they should have full time jobs. they have way too much time on their hands. they know it won't pass constitutional muster. >> john: how is it the g.o.p. doing in their pursuit not to be the stupid part? >> as i like to say it would help with bobby jindal were

stupid before he talks about the party being stupid. he's right about that. the smartest thing he has said in a long time. i wish he did it in the same sing song read me to sleep voice as he did a few years ago, it cracks me up. >> john: the republican speech. he said that quote in reference to mourdock and aiken two men that he actually agrees with. rick unger. a pleasure. >> great to be here. >> john: keep on coming back. the next time your kid says i want a pony. buy him a whooper.

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>> john: tonight's viewer tweet comes from renee ten eyck who brings up a point i really haven't heard so far in the gun debate. they ask why no one discusses the likelihood of hate groups such as the kkk using weapons adversely. we only talk about mental health. although most people don't mind white supremacists having weapons, and by implying there

is a difference between kkk and mental illness you've overshot. if you have a comment for our show tweet us at "viewpoint" ctv or john fugelsang or using harsh tag "viewpoint." on the subject of firearms, we turn up a 30-year-old question. prisoner or cop killer. if question has been squirreling around mumia abu. jamal since december the 9 1981. he has continue broadcasting radio commentary even with prison noise notice background. if you heard any of his stuff it's fascinating listening. he has never stopped writing in radical voice or professing his evidence. officer faulkner's widow has

never stop discussing his guilt. >> there was never a time when africans blindly obediently accepted their fate. africans fought in every way possible against their inhuman fate. >> mumia is imitating the first cry of the first slave that was brought to this country who said no. >> john: funnying me now is one of the producers of the film noel hallahan. >> john: the writings he has put forth, stephen, you seem to be the driving force getting the film made. what made you decide to do this film? >> from a practical standpoint every practical piece done on mumia has always focused on the

case. right now in 2013 there was nothing else that came in the table that i wanted to mine that hadn't been done before. what interested me so much, you wake up in a country where you feel like the american empire has run amok. and you look for sanity inside the insanity where we live. the sanity for me, i found was in a dark dank hall on death row in pennsylvania, and the subject of my film, mumia abu-jamal. he answers the empire, and that's ultimately what this film is about. it's about authoring something other than the commonplace use of violence and lies in this country. people always ask me you know, you made a film about such a radical guy. i don't think mumia is radical at all. here is a guy who suggests peace

over war. he suggests feeding people over starving people. and he suggests that the economic rapists in this country shouldn't be doing what they're doing. that's pretty straightforward. radicals will be missiles into neighborhoods. >> john: i think most people would be surprised how in the mainstream mumia's views are. but i can't imagine it was all that easy to make a film like this. let me ask you, noel, what were some of the obstacles that you found in making a film about such a controversial figure. >> i think the suppression that the state has tried to limit his voice whether it's solitary confinement limiting phone calls, taking away his pencils or putting him in the hole, all trying to suppress what he has to say and making it difficult to get it out. once we established getting his voice out on a regular basis

then it became more important to really delve into why he had this narrative why he had the journalist, why he was a journalist before he went into prison, and how he continued that even though he was in solitary confinement for years. >> john: inmates are banned from recording, yet you can find mumia cds in many bookstores. how did he do it? >> we fought for years. every moment they tried to suppress him and take his microphone away we tried to counter that with access. so he has not been allowed to recorded in person on microphone. in this culture that's limiting. it meant that we have ten videos the entire time he was in prison when there were moments you could get a camera in. so we only had audio and we had to use other mechanisms throughout the documentary to show his development and his development as a journalist. >> john: the film takes no position as to his guilt or

innocence, correct? >> no it doesn't. i think from a nuance standpoint, and we can both tell you that we both think that mumia is utterly and completely innocent, but the film, we just didn't want to go to the he said-she said fight that constantly goes on in this case and many other cases like it. for me mumia's life, very few people know how strong of a journalist he was prior to incarceration. i mean, this is a guy who was a reporter for national public radio "all things considered." he was an up and coming star in the city of philadelphia, and on a national scale. december 9, 1981 happens but he resurfaces--that's the night he was arrested for the supposed killing of officer faulkner. he resurfaces much because of

this woman who was able to take his voice and transported it around the world. i would not made the film without noelle's help on this. she has done a h erlecean voice. and mumia makes it look easy. he's so good at what he douse. >> i had done hundreds of interviews, before mumia. when i sat down with him. he was the most professional. he did one two three takes. he was stepping up. he had game. it really made it possible. i was searching for voices from inside prison that could tell those stories because i thought the mainstream media was you can't be talking about this

cultural. you can't talk about america without voices of prisoners in the mix. too good a story. >> john: of course. >> and this was in prison. this was a guy who really could tell that story. >> john: we are almost out of time. do you think he'll get a new trial. >> absolutely. >> we hope so. he deserves it. >> there is a lot of evidence that has been suppressed in this case. >> john: long distance opens here tomorrow and in cinema theater over the next two weeks. thank you both for making this film. thank you for bringing his story out and for letting us learn more about it. thanks. >> john: good luck on the film. so where does wayne lapierre draw the line? if at all. i'll talk about that and this week's folks in blackness coming up next. but when joint pain and stiffness from psoriatic arthritis hit even the smallest things became difficult. i finally understood what serious joint pain is like. i talked to my rheumatologist and he prescribed enbrel. enbrel can help relieve pain, stiffness,

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>> john: so one thing that wayne lapierre was not asked about yesterday in his appearance before the senate judiciary committee is where he draws the

lines of the weapons that americans should be able to have and those she should they should not. what about rocket launchers it sound katie but it's not. an official say they bought back more than 2,600 firearms including some semiautomatic rifles that are banned in new jersey. no surprise there. a few sawed-off shotguns, okay, this is guy stuff and yes one anti-tank shoulder-fired rocket launcher. 25% of the guns were illegal weapons, and a whopping 95% of those weapons that were purchased were fully operational. i'm curious mr. la pierre because i know you watch current, by your standards shouldn't rocket launchers be legal? what about anthrax. drones where wayne, do you draw the line?

joining me now to discuss this and many other issues are three of the hosts of this week in blackness rocket launchers. l joy williams, and hosts of twib in morning elon james white, and aaron rand freeman. where do begun junkies draw the line. i say gun junkies because you have your normal second amendment folks and they agree with most sensible gun control then you have the fetish groups. doesn't the argument extend to owning your arsenal missiles? >> yes. you can't have that happen on tv. >> john: sound like a democrat. >> you haven't been paying attention to the democrats. basically what you're seeing

here--to acknowledge the ridiculousness of this, you can make an argument that anything is an useful weapon. i definitely need 15 samurai swords with me at all times because. >> he actually has a samurai sword. >> you have to tell on me now. >> you're a sword. >> john: that's legal, and we hear the argument, make hammer illegal. because they're not designed to kill people. >> they're not a cartridge of hammerers you can put together and shoot people. >> john: you don't need to re reload a harm. >> we're missing something. this means that we can get through to the gun nuts if someone with a rocket launcher. if someone with a rocket launcher can be talked to giving back the rocket launcher under his own will, we can make huge strides. >> that dude was having a rough

time. man, what am i going to do? i got nothing. but this rocket launcher. >> john: you wrote the nerd show. you know guys and their toy. elon is right he's so hard up for cash that he needs to sell his functional rocket launcher. but some advocates make the case for hunting and protection. there is a group of people that they feel they'll need to defend themselves against government that they feel is going to come some way as per alex jones wet dream. when the government comes to take your guns away, who are you going to kill? cops? atf agents or u.s. soldiers? who do you think they have in mind that they're going to use their ars against? >> freedom. >> they'll be very visible. >> brown people. >> john: anyone is representing who they don't feel is america. which is what they're doing now with how they vote and how

legislation gets passed. >> john: a very narrow view of what america is. they're talking about tyranny confiscating their toys and entertainment. >> i'm of the mindset they like to go back to the founding fathers, and they said--muskets. people shot and killed bears and hunted with muskets. i say you have the institutional right to muskets. >> john: your well-regulateed militia may have muskets. according to a a new poll, significantasignificantly larger number in texas. is gun lobby money too huge. >> money is what is happening right now. if you can watch people literally fight against the

people who got them elected believe and want and desire, it has to be money. there is no other answer to it. >> that's the root cause. we see this in the gun debate and so many other debates in the abortion debate, healthcare. there are so many people that if you talk to the constituents this is what they want. clearly the polls say that. yet there is this infusion of money of lobbyists who are protecting the interests of business who have that interest-- >> but then i say the republicans and even harry reid if he let's this bill die in the senate, the next time there is a massacre, y'all own it. president obama is promising new gun control legislation, but if he doesn't it wouldn't be the first props promise he has brokenned. it was announced this week that those assigned at guantanamo bay is reassigned and no one is replacing him. was it just a complain ploy that he knew he could give up on easily if he had to. >> i know we'll get comments

saying that you had obama apologizists on the show, but i think it's one of those instances, and we talked about it earlier on the show this week that he had this naive ideal that he could go in and close it it. and when he got in and saw all the difficulties of everything that had to be in place for that to happen, it fell apart. >> john: he couldn't use the bully pulpit? >> there has been a lot of coverage of what happened over the last four years. the process was started and it was not going to work out. literally, he couldn't do anything. >> john: is that fair enough to say? >> i'll just repeat what he just said. there are some things that he won't be able to hit on. >> john: i fell like he could have use the the bully pulpit

just a bit stronger. >> all the arguments he should do more on. he should do nor of this and use that bully pulpit, and at what point is that effective. >> john: unfortunately i have to go to a really important question. chris brown is back in the news after allegedly getting in a fight with frank ocean over a parking spot. brown is on probation for assaulting his girlfriend brianna and got in a fight with rapper dre. it's nice he's getting in a fight with boys now. he lip-syncs and uses auto tune. why are people still supporting him? come on, one of you has to be willing-- >> i don't understand-- >> who is this brown person? >> given the popularity, i was wondering the deal was. >> this is--just look at american history. we've seen people who are in incredibly problematic maintain a following and at some point following him is a badge of how

hard you are. your character is stronger because you're still with the person who apparently beat his girlfriend and has not apologized about it. >> john: apparently. life is long and karma is, too. but i'm going to get to you talk about chris brown. the panel stays with me until after the break as we look at all the excuses for gun violence except guns. (vo) she gets the comedians laughing and the thinkers thinking. >>ok, so there's wiggle room in the ten commandments, that's what you're saying. (vo) she's joy behar. >>current will let me say anything.

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>> john: welcome back to "viewpoint." one more quick question for the panel. i know gun control is a complex issue, if you would wave a magic wand, what would you do? >> nor investment in actual community programs that work. gun buy backs. interrupt programs like cease-fire chicago those

programs work. we need more funding. >> that's too intelligent. keywe want something else. >> i would going to give her answer. >> change the scale of it. i have issue of dealing with the amount of violence in chicago than dealing with something like assault rifles that is going to be a long drag-out issue. >> john: until harry reid let's it die in the senate. that brings me to today's f-bomb. well the gun junkie lobby has decided where to place the blame for gun violence in a society where it's really easy to get guns. it's at axis of scapegoats. let's look at the games first. yesterday, senator lamar alexander actually said that violent video games are bigger problem than guns. i'll never forget my first day in new york and i was in an

alley israel and a raving manback jumped out and threw an atari 2600 q-bert game directly at my heart. countries with the highest video game consumption are really quite safe. is studies have proven that watching violent video games make children more aggressive, but only one country has this type of gun violence. it's got to be the violent movies. when is hollywood going to answer for all the make believe answer causing all the violence across the world. joe scarborough who i like has been going off on quentin tarantino and calling him a jack ass for releasing "django unchained"ded". let's