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cenk: well looks look we're out of time. if you want more "young turks," utubd.com/tyt, all the "young turks" you can handle. viewpoint is next. >> john: cpac 2013 is underway. and the speaker told us how barack obama is an evil socialist mastermind, and at least they're on message. the budget stayed up in d.c. with the president offering cuts to medicare now. this is turning into a new reality show. new deal or no knew deal. we'll be joined by congressman peter welch. and it's pi day. today is the birthday of the late albert einstein and tom

coburn and michael caine is 80 years old. and julius caesar was an emperor, now he's a salad. here's "viewpoint." [ ♪ theme music ♪ ] >> john: good evening, i'm john fugelsang, and this is "viewpoint." day three of president obama's so-called charm offensive saw him meeting with senate republicans and house democrats following the meeting yesterday with house republicans. next stop, tomorrow he'll be speaking at cpac. obama did offer an explanation for his recent outreach in a speech last night to a support group organizing for action. >> obama: over the last several weeks the the press here in washington has been reporting about obama's charm offensive. the truth of the matter is all i've been doing is calling up folks and trying to see if we can break through some of the

gobble di di gook of our politics politics. >> john: gobble di gook indeed. it's hard to differentiate between the gook and the gobble di. here is john baner. >> republicans want to balance the budget. the president doesn't. the republicans want to solve our long-term debt problem. the president doesn't. >> john: it's worth pointing out the last two republican presidents ever to balance a budget was named richard nixon. our biggest problems in the next ten years is not deficit. something that the president bases not only on facts economic theory and last four years of being president but we haveand thereduction we've already

done to slow our pesky recovery, but republicans demand leadership. in an op-ed. it says for all of washington's focus on the president's outreach to republicans it's his engagement with members of his own party that will germ whether we succeed in dealing with our own challenge of dealing with our economy. meaning, he would be a true leader and we would have a budget that cuts entitlements strips money from programs from those who actually need it. and it balances out. maybe that's why the president likes to stay at home in the white house after all. joining me is peter welch of vermont, who had a chance to meet with the president today. congressman, thank you for being on "viewpoint" this evening. >> thank you. >> john: you met with the president earlier.

how would you describe the meeting? were you encouraged at all by what you heard? >> quite a bit? >> john: really? >> yes, the president had a brutal campaign and he won on a very explicit commitment that he would about up the economy bring down the deficit. that was the argument to bring down the debt. there is not a disagreement between him and mr. boehner about the debt. it's how we do it and when we do it. it was reassuring when he said he was not going to chase a bad deal. he was asked about the cpi which was a great concern to democrats. what he said was look, he's going to totally maintain the medicare and our social security, but he was acknowledging that sometimes we don't like to remember ourselves, we got a divided government. he said if we're going to demand

a balanced approach then obviously we have to talk about things that we don't like. the context that the president presented this in is he would only get engaged on anything related to medicare if it was in the context of a very solid balanced deal. and i think what was reassuring was his emphasis on the commitment to the middle class bringing down unemployment, creating jobs. and you know, the difference here is that mr. boehner and the republicans actually do believe in austerity. they think if we just squeeze squeeze, squeeze, even as we lower taxes at the high end that will create prosperity. that's really a pipe dream. >> john: i'm confused. the president said he doesn't want to touch medicare at all but because of a divided government we might have to do things we don't like. >> no, he said if we want to get revenues they'll bring up topics like the entitlement issues that

we will have to discuss. he was not backing away from my view a solid commitment to maintaining it. he said those of us who are supporters of medicare and social security have to focus on maintaining solvency and stability going forward. he said, this was music to our ears. he said social security was not part of the debt issue. it is a totally different issue. to the extent that we get involved. social security at all it has to be about that problem and it's solvent and committed to that 75 year window we've been committed to. as far as medicare, with what wave' done with the affordable care act we're in good shape for the next ten years. but after that even the cbo numbers show with the demographics of ten thousand folks coming into healthcare each year and then healthcare costs continue to go up higher than the rate of inflation we

have to do something. those of us on the democratic democratic side said it's reform, not shifting the costs as paul ryan is suggesting. he left pretty confident with the solid commitment to the middle class that he expressed in his campaign, and the solid commitment to revenue as part of the budget deal. he gave us confidence, i would say. even though some of these things are going to be raised by the republicans we have to evaluate them if over all it's a solid deal for the middle class. we're not going to chase a bad deal. >> john: that's great to hear. of course the president has been vocal about a possible willingness to support a reform. but you congressman welsh you have a proposal that will save $156 billion over the next ten years. >> right now medicare has great benefit and drug benefit program

part d. we pay retail prices even though we buy wholesale. if we purchased drugs like we do in the v.a. or medicare, we would save taxpayers $156 billion a year. right now in medicare if we buy a certain drug, and buy that same drug in the medicaid or v.a. program, we would pay 60% less. so we're buying wholesale and paying retail. and obviously that makes no sense. it's a legacy of the law that was jammed through by tom delay known as the hammer when it was made illegal for the government to negotiate full-price discounts in the medicare program. no capitalist would do that. they would pay wholesale if buying wholesale. >> john: congressman peter welsh, i would have to say that particular plan would upset big farm ma, but you could take that on yourself and win. thank you for your time your service, and your very promising

new bill. >> john: also joining us tonight to unpack the budget battle for "newsweek" the one and only michael tomas tomasky. welcome. >> thank you. >> john: if the president leads were behind, he's criticized. if he stays at home, they a they say the guy's not leading. what can he do? >> what can he do? accept the ryan budget. that's what they mean by leadership, john as you know, as you said at the top of the segment. they're not going to bend on revenues and they're not going to give an inch. what they mean is that the deal has to be done on their terms. that's what they mean. it's ridiculous. >> john: we have economists on both sides saying we don't have

a deficit problem, something that dick cheney once said. how have republicans been so successful at framing the entire budget issue as one needing to balance the budget. is it that the media swallows everything that they say? >> the media swallows deficit hawkry all the time here in the beltway whether it comes from republicans or democrats. while bush was president the republicans weren't talking much about deficit hawkry. they were running up the big deficits. but then the big crisis came, the meltdown came in 2008 and we did spend, of course, we spent the stimulus and the auto bailout and other things. the deficit did go up very high, and the usual deficit hawks inside the beltway who are always complaining about the deficit started really ratcheting it up, and the republicans saw that. they said, aah this is our opportunity.

what they want, of course, is to cut government spending cut domestic discretionary programs, and reform--i can't believe that word came out of my mind, but to drastically cut change, cut programs. that's what they really want to do, but they now they can couch it in the we must reduce the deficit terms and that a lot of people will fall for it. you're correct in the premise of your question, it's correct. the deficit has gone down to $845 billion. that's still a high def sit but its falling pretty fast. if the economy keeps going at this clip, 250,000 private sector jobs a month, who knows. >> john: and economists claim the stimulus saved the economy.

sir, have we reached a point where the best deal for our country may be no deal at all? >> well, a lot of people have said this going way back, going back to when this budget control act was passed in 2011, which is the act that led to the sequestration. yeah, this is an entirely possible outcome that no deal is the best deal. i just don't see what is going to make the republicans move on tax revenues. i didn't see anything in ryan's new budget that suggested this was possible. he wants to cut taxes even further, especially for rich people, of course. the democratic proposal that was put out by patty murray makes an attempt, and i think a reasonably honest attempt to have a balanced approach, you know, 1 trillion-dollar over ten

years in revenues, and 1 trillion-dollar in ten years in spending cuts. but it's not--the republicans aren't going to give that the time of day. they're not going to look at it. >> john: why isn't the president using his bully pulpit on the tax issue. they were supposed to expire in 2010. the american people voted for me twice on the promise of tax cuts. i made 80% of those tax cuts permanent. we're just talking about closing loopholes which is what governor romney talked about. why aren't we bringing the fight to them on this issue. >> in some ways he has. he goes out and makes these--he goes out on the stump and makes these appearances and says these things. he may not say them the way you and i would like them. he may not say it as directly and emphatically as you and i would say them, but he's trying to say this stuff. whenever he does that, of course, the republicans say oh, he's out--he's in permanent

campaign mode. why doesn't he come back to washington to negotiate. then he comes back to negotiate and they have say, well, nothing came out of it. he can't win with them. >> john: in fairness to the president, you and i don't have the burden to appear presidential. the great michael tomasky. thank you for coming on the show tonight. >> thank you. >> john: anti-police protest in brooklyn three nights running now. the shooting last week that may have started it, but this was building up long before. now that's coming up next.

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after senator ted cruz tried to instruct her on the constitution, the good senator from california replied with this. >> i'm not a sixth grader. senator, i've been on this committee for 0 years. i was a mayor for nine years. i walked in, i saw people shot. i studied the constitution myself. i'm reasonably well educated, and i thank thank you for the lecture. incidentally, this does not prohibit--you used the word prohibit--it exempts. 2271 weapons. isn't that enough for the people in the united states? do they need a bazooka. >> john: nice lecture, senator cruz. the bad news, senator feinstein apologized to senator cruz later. but hey she has to work with the guy. those people who were shot were harvey milk and senator marscone. the riots erupted after the

shooting of 16-year-old kimani gray. one officer was injured but behind this protest is a larger story. most people shot by police in in 2011 were black like, kimani gray or hispanic. and they are routinely detained by police. the police have been stopping and specificking frisking people in wholesale numbers. any of those stops could turn violent, even with just verbal resistence. and more than 86% of the people who have been stopped have been black or latino with many of the young men getting frisked over and over and over again. i'm pleased to welcome back to the show host of twi radio, elon james white and l. joy williams. thank you for coming back. >> thank you. >> john: just this tuesday at the city council complies

commissioner ray kelly credited stop and frisk, the policy that i was just discussing about a sharp decrease in crime. is it worth it? >> did definitely is. you're asking american citizens to give up their rights, and you're saying, o because we're finding guns, because we're stopping future murderers. but we're giving up our rights. no other communities are asked to do that. there are no other communities across the city besides communities of color, who are asked to give up their civil liberties. >> john: stop and frisk does not happen on wall street. it doesn't happen there at all. >> and let's stop and look at the statistics on it. when you break it down, over 80% of people who are stopped on stop and frisk are absolutely innocent. this is a great thing you're doing even though most of the people you are bothering have done nothing wrong. >> it's not as if you get

stopped and frisked and then they say oh, sorry this is the issue, and an explanation of why you may look like a perpetrator none of that happens. >> john: the privacy and civil liberties issue you might see rand paul get on the bandwagon. >> i doubt it. >> john: do you see the effects of it in private buildings or women? >> i've been a witness to it more often than not it's young african-american and latino males as well as adults, who are targeted that way. i can't say that i've personally experienced that. i've never seen it or experienced it and i'm not quite sure of the numbers that say a lot of women experience that but the target is males. >> our co-host a regular--he has so many stories about this specifically because he's large african-american with long dreadlocks, literally he's stopped. if he sees someone cops will look in his direction he'll walk over to the car.

how can i help you officer. that's how bad it's gotten in brooklyn. >> john: would you like to see stop and frisk end all together even as commissioner kelly said it would lead to a rise in violent crime. >> i'm not sure that it would directly lead to a rise in crime. i'm different. i know there are organizations likes naacp, who want the policy ended. me personally, i have a different view. i think it can be an useful tool but it's not used properly. when you have a systemic view across police departments because it's not just here in new york. there are other places as well where they don't use the tool properly, then i think you do have to end it because people don't know how to use it. >> i differ with l. joy on that. if your statistics are that high that you're finding the wrong people then maybe the tactic you're using shouldn't be used. >> john: this is not just about locking people up for small amounts of marijuana.

that's a misdemeanor. >> even for a long time. first of all that was supposed to be kind of the misdemeanor for quite some time. people were still being arrested at full volume. even with that being on the books it doesn't mean that the young men on the street that get stopped actually will have that happen to them. >> remember, you mentioned even if you assert verbally without any physical violence or anything, even if you assert verbally yours rights there are still african-american and latino males who know their rights and will say it to police officers, that "talk back" will get you arrested. >> john: you could try to end poverty and watch it all disappear in a generation or so, but that won't help. >> they don't believe in prevention. >> john: no, in is america. let's shift over to the protest. elon you've been there. what have you seen happening at the protest over the last few nights? >> people are frustrated. there are multiple things happening right now. there is a dead child. that's what it is, as much as we

want to talk about the gang banger and his background there is a dead child. you have a city where literally there has been a battle between the community and the actual police department for decades. this is not something that just started. this is not some weird new thing. you have all this brewing around things. then you have people who are genuinely angry and they believe things should happen. at the same time they're coming to the neighborhood and they're not actively thinking what is going to happen in that neighborhood. you have so many different aspects and parts of this going on that no one is having the discussion about the complication of this. >> i should mention, he had been arrested four times previously but we have not heard a word whether his prints were found on the weapon near his body, and in my opinion the fact that there were three bullet wounds in his back does not mean that this controversy is going to go away any time soon. >> we're still waiting for the

results of this investigation that continues to go on. his family held a press conference denouncing the violence that has been rising, and has been happening as protests have been going on, and they just want an investigation in terms of it. we see witness who is have come forward and say he didn't have a gun. he didn't have anything in his hands. we need this conversation to happen to figure out what happened. but as elon mentioned there is still the tension and anger in our communities that this consistently happens in our communities. >> even right now, just as a point of reference where we acknowledge that he had been arrested four times before. that didn't matter. >> they didn't know that information during the altercation at that time. >> john: indeed, they did not. i thank you for coming back two nights in a row. as i told you we'll continue to cover this because i think whether you live in new york or not this affects you. i thank you both for keeping on top of it.

l. joy williams, and elon james white. thank you both for stopping by. >> yes. >> john: other children at risks. this across the world in syria. that's coming up. you're invited to take the lysol wipes challenge. try lysol dual action wipes and see the cleaning power. lysol dual action wipes have 2 sides instead of one. a scrubbing side that cleans tough stains better than clorox. and a smooth side for everyday touchups. all while killing 99.9% of germs.

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>> john: wtf kansas week concludes with a love story. i'm talking about the enduring love between republicans and guns. the republicans-controlled kansas house of representatives has just voted to allow concealed weapons into the state capitol. and there are two other pro-gun bills in the works. this love story is pretty hot because it involved a three-way. soon in kansas you'll be able to carry guns into the public offices, schools and hospitals which is quite convenient because then kansasens will be to have their self-inflicted gunshot wounds treated on the spot. lawmakers also passed a bill that would ban the enforcement of federal bans on guns made in kansas.

so remember mass murderersers when you're purchasing weapons for your next killing spree make sure they have the "made in kansas" label on them. the legislation still has to go to the state senate which is even more conservative than the state house. so the bill is probably too soft. and wtf, kansas, we love you but because on you're known for your beef but you want to turn your whole state into a slaughterhouse. why can't you enjoy your right to bear arms without shooting all of western civilization right in the foot?

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>> john: welcome back. moving now to syria, in the civilian cost of the deadly civil war in syria has been well documented. it has claimed the lives of some 70,000 people with several thousand more dying every month. what has not been documented until now is the story of children caught in the cross fire of unrelenting syrian violence. according to a report by "save the children" 2 million children

are in need of assistance facing death, trauma, suffering deprived of basic humanitarian aid. many have been lost at least one loved one and some have even been used as human shields. carolyn mills, thank you for your service on this horrible issue and the statistics that i just cited are alarming. can you shed light for our viewers on what is happening in syria? >> sure, i think children are really caught in the cross fire. this is the children's emergency more than anything. it's an attack on childhood. that's why we wrote the report. it's kids inside syria about two million kids are at risk, and horrible things are happening to kids. we did this report with interviews with children both inside and outside of the country. they're telling us things like

they're watching their family members be tortured, they're being tortured themselves. we have reports of kids being used as human shields. we have reports of girls being married off at 15, 16, to protect them from being raped. really horrible things that are happening to children inside syria. >> john: when you follow the news on what is happening in this horrible conflict it's the politics. it's assad, it's who is to blame. can we trust the resistence, is turkey involved, and can john kerry do it? we don't talk about the statistics like this. i want to share this from your report. 2,000 schools have been damaged. more than 200,000 children are missing out on education and a third of syrian hospitals are now closed. it may seem like a trite question but what is the impact like this on the children? >> something to remember, this is a middle income country. before this disaster, and this

crisis, these were kids going to school. they had healthcare. they had the basics. they weren't rich by any means but were families that had the basics. now you have kids not going to school. huge psychological trauma on these kids. no health services. >> john: that includes inoculations. >> exactly. vaccinations are not being kept up. we're hearing stories that mothers are going at seven months pregnant to have an emergency c-section because they're afraid they won't be able to get into a hospital when they're actually due. and then within 4 hours less than 24 hours after the emergency c-section they leave the hospital. you know, the healthcare everything basically everything serving these kids is gone. >> john: what kind of psychological damage has this done to syrian children now and of course exponentially down the

road? >> yeah, that's something that we're worried about. it's something that save the children does a lot of work on to get to those psycho social issues. you can see it in the drawings and in the reports that the kids are doing. they're drawing about these horrible things that have happened to them. that's a good part of what is happening because you want kids to get some of those feelings out so the draw is drawing is part of getting kids to deal with these feelings. the trauma, you know, if you think about children watching, you know, parents die watching their brothers and sisters die being tortured. that's trauma that's going to be there for a very long time. >> john: i really hate to have to ask this question but how is this civil war impacting girls as opposed to boys? >> well, i think girls always, unfortunately, are targets in war. we're hearing stories of rape of young teenage girls. parents are marrying they are

girls off early for protection. we definitely think that's happening throughout the country. >> john: the report is largely nonpartisan, i respect that, but let me ask you, do you feel comfortable saying whether or not the assad regime is more responsible for these abuses of children than the resistence? >> well, we certainly see the regime targeting civilians. that absolutely is happening. and children are being targeted along with those families. you know, it's hard to get all of the information. it's a very hard place to work, so i do think there are things happening on both sides. the other thing is that there is not one rebel force. there are multiple fragmented groups in syria so some of these things could be happening in small groups but not across the forces. >> john: one quick question. everyone wonders how can we help? where is the aid going? what is the biggest obstacle standing in the way of getting aid to the syrian children, financial aid or humanitarian

aid? >> the point is we're getting aid in to children and the million refugees who left the country, 52% who are living in jordan, lebanon and iraq in refugee camps. we are getting aid to children and aid into the country, but we need more access. we need access to the hardest hit areas. >> john: carolyn miles, i'm grateful there are people like you on the planet. thank you. >> you thank you. >> john: conservatives are now meeting in maryland to echo at each other cpac. we have more from the scene. that's coming up next.

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>> john: the 40th annual conservative political action conference kicked off this morning, and as always the theme of the day: lies and hatred. some of the intellectuals who took the stage today included one of the and done former congressman

alan west perhaps allen west can sum up what happened today. >> there is nothing on this green earth that a liberal progressive fears more than a black american who wants a better life and a smaller government. conservatives believe it is our moral duty to serve our fellow man regardless of race, sex, affiliation or creed. >> john: because liberals were the ones who kept a black man down as long as you didn't own a dictionary. let's check in with a brilliant american who is actually there. tom welcome. >> hey john. >> john: it's great to have you. you were at cpac talking to more of the folks in the crowd. that fascinates me. what was the vibe like for those attending? >> you know, it's almost giddiness. a lot of people are there because they got scholarships, as it were, members who of their

young republican clubs so they packed the house of these folks. and there is an enormous amount of money an enormous amount of swag, bags of stuff that they could take back. the thing that i found fascinating with the c-pac are the billionaires behind it. how they pushed my dad' generation to the right and how their sons are pushing the generation today to the right they're almost there. >> john: david koch favors marriage equality, he may be quicked out of his own conference. does this seem like the future of the republican party or just a side show to get hillary clinton elected history? >> well, i think--that's a good question. a, i don't think it's the future of the republican party. i think we're looking at the republican party being torn apart.

and the billionaire takeover of it and b, hillary clinton? well, we'll have to wait and see on that. i don't think they have a viable candidate yet. jeb bush is the most likely. >> john: the viable candidates were not invited this year. what topics were people most interested in talking to you about? >> turning social security over to the banks. let wall street take care of social security. let's turn medicare over to the health insurance companies. the stuff of paul ryan, the stuff that they put in their budget, voted for two years in a row and said, this is what we like. doing away with entitlement programs. anything that helps average working people or poor people they're opposed to. and anything that helps billionaires they're in favor of. >> john: i'm glad that the serfs have realized that the lords are

the feudal lords are the top. were there any topics you wanted to avoid? >> probably the billionaires, the influence of the billionaires on the port. it's a topic that does not discussed in c-pac. it doesn't get discussed in the democratic party either, and it should be more. there are a few billionaires who support democrats but there is a distinction. when the billionaire is supporting a democrat, they're supporting someone who is going to raise their taxes. you can't in any way call that an investment other than a social investment. a genuine society societal investment. >> john: someone called that patriotism. >> well said. on the other hand, when billionaires are supporting republicans and conservatives they're investing in having more money down the road because their taxes will be lower. and which is really kind of sad.

>> john: and everyone is waiting for their trickle down prize. we have ten seconds are people coming up in the next couple of days, sarah palin, donald trump who are the folks most are excited to hear speak. >> donald trump, i'm looking forward to. >> john: me, to. syndicated radio talk show thom hartmann. >> good to see view listen to this guy's radio show. he's dynamite. here to discuss everything c-pac is alexsi mcgill johnson and rick ungar and mr. karl frisch. we're going to have fun. first of all is this meant to be taken seriously or is this just to get the party fired up. >> when you're doubled down and crazy you can't be serious. when you're trying to ignore

some of the core issues that are going to be key to any 2014 or 2016 challenge, i can't see how this is either/or. >> john: rick, what do you think? >> we love it. the circus comes to town. it's funny. we're the ones talking about this. i watched fox earlier. they weren't talking about c. pac the-pacthe way we're talking about it. it's a circus. did you see donald trump? allen west. >> john: it's fun to mock them. >> i don't mock them. i depend c-pac's right to exist. it's the south by southwest homophobes muslim haters immigrant bashers racists sexists. the more that they exist in their 41st and 42nd and 43rd year it will only do better for the country because it will show the american people what the republican party is

becoming. >> there were benign comments but putt toomey's speech, here he is discussing his version of the 2008 financial crisis. >> the fact is the policies that got us into this mess are the policies of a big government, the failed monetary policy and encouraging lending to people who couldn't pay loans back. it's the left that got us into this mess. >> john: the only way the left got us into this mess is if you want to blame roosevelt for making glass-steagall which was repealed decades later. how did the left get us into this mess? >> the right will always look for an excuse to blame the left. it's as if bush never happened. everything that happened during bush that was bad was clinton's fault. anything-- >> john: we can give clinton credit for the repeal of glass-steagall. sucking up to the right is not being left.

>> the senator you saw was a pin for billionaires for decades pouring vast amounts of money into senate races all over the country to elect the most conservative corporatist members of the body they could. >> i just think it speaks to the irony of all of these wall street folks who are you know, definitely trying to get away from big government, but at the same time putting their hands out in front of big government. the fact that they're embodying that is really speaking volumes. >> john: they worship ronald reagan who grew big government by 60,000 jobs. we talk about how an g.o.p. speaks empty rhetoric with no real ideas. this won't change your mind. >> when i'm done speaking i'll tell what you the criticism i'll tell you the problem on the left. one, he drank too much water. there is no idea. the idea is called america, and it still works. >> john: okay, no one has made fun of the water.

they made of him being a bad speaker and there are no new ideas. they don't come up with new ideas because of america? blah-blah-blah blah flag. bengahzi. >> alexis? >> of all the new ideas that rubio should have been talking about is path to citizenship and noticeably it's absent from his speech. >> john: he has the path away from citizenship. >> you put your finger on it. substance is always missing. he does not deal in substance. >> give this kid a break. we all know the letters, shapes numbers, they all have a liberal biased. >> john: we'll talk about some people who are not at c-pac, the guys who could actually get elected. we'll be right back. plan.

>> john: back with our panel

alexis, karl, and rick, rand paul enters the sandman. he played metallica to try to appeal to the young folk. >> the facebook generation can detect falseness and hypocrisy a mile away. ask the facebook generation if we should put a kid in jail for the non-violent crime of drug use. you'll hear a resounding no. ask the face become generation if they want to bail out too big to fail banks with their tax dollars, you'll hear a hell no. >> john: i like the second two points, but if facebook generation could detect falseness, they would not be giving their information to farm apps. >> at the end of the day it shows how completely out of touch he is with young people and the millennial generation. >> john: i don't know,.

>> i disagree. i disagree. i think that john mccain made a big mistake picking on rand paul for trying to appeal to college libertarians. he knows exactly what he's doing. >> john: in fairness john mccain was lifting somebody else's line when did he it. karl why do you think that jeb would not want to be part of the poll this year. >> i think jeb bush is looking at the situation here. he knows that he stuck his foote in his mouth not two weeks ago when he flip flopped on immigration reform. i think he'll play it safe until he has to get aggressive. i think he still has another year or two before he has to do that even if he ends up running. >> john: i agree. i think he will end up running because he'll have the best fundraising apparatus in place and it will be he and crisisy.

>> christie doesn't have a snowball's chance in new jersey of winning the republican nomination. he'll be the rudy giuliani chance. >> chris christie still speaks the truth for a lot. in new jersey. in iowa they elect people like pat robertson and pat buchanan. >> john: mitt romney was hated by two-thirds of that primary party and still got through. >> he was pro-life he was against gay marriage. chris christie is the least positive on gay marriage. >> john: he's against gay marriage and abortion rights. >> he could get back there quickly. >> john: he doesn't hate muslims enough. they do don't like that. what does it say about the resist in the party, alexis that these two guys were not invited and trump was?

>> i think it's interesting. you have a sector of the party that knows that they're to blame for 2012. so that they are--they're kind of like doubling down on crazy. and they're trying to reinforce their position because they know whoever the candidate is will have to move a little bit to the left of them. >> john: okay, rick, speaker is coming up. mitt romney, sarah palin, donald trump. are these three people irrelevant so far as the party. >> obviously they're irrelevant. i want tickets to all of them. >> john: that's why they're not irrelevant. >> there is a difference between a freak show and being politically relevant. bob mcdonald is relevant in the sense that he could appeal to some people but not necessarily a serious candidate in 2016. he would not sell tickets. but he is relevant. >> john: i think it's going to come down to who is as good of a public speaker as hillary clinton in 2016. that's w