igs down. labor's message is different. you know labor's message is that clear our message tonight is trying to get at the truth and to do that i'm joined here at the big table by david charter he is the berlin corresponded with the times newspaper he's also author of several books on breaks it which i highly recommend and joining us from brussels tonight is georg matis our correspondent who has been covering those talks taking place in brussels gentlemen to both of you welcome but i want to start with a comment that was made by the u.k.'s breaks it minister david davis about a worst case scenario ending two bricks take a list you know what's what we've been doing fall over a year now since august of two thousand and sixteen is making preparations for all outcomes now we don't want a new deal but if one comes we'll be ready for it all ready for it so david charters it breaks it means breaks it. and now it could also mean

a new deal is he for real. the thing is brant they cannot be literally no deal because there is as we know billions of pounds worth of trade giving across the borders between the e.u. and great britain and it will still flow to it when all be stuck on one side or the other but what no deal refers to is then the trading reverts to the very basic world trade organization rules bridge which no one would want i mean it's like trading in the wild west right well it's like it's actually like trading slightly with one arm behind your back because there needs to be there are terrorists levels for countries which don't have very good relations with each other exactly has to go between we have until recently excellent relations with the e.u. and it would be crazy to enter into this world trading organization world of tariffs when the whole mission of the e.u.

was to abolish tariffs and yes. that's the irony of it looks georg what about you know the situation there in brussels i mean is brussels seriously planning for . this possibility of a no deal in the. i think david here used the right word and that is crazy and that is i think the perspective that brussels has taken all along this the real difference here between a serious amazed position in the position of the twenty seven is they never promised that bracks it would be a success they always said throughout this will be a new sluice situation and there is zero interest to have no deal scenario of course they're still preparing for it and here's another difference of course it's an open secret that the leverage that the u.k. has is rather small they have of course the market access they are an important trading partner as david pointed out about the problem for two reason may and i think it became clear in the speech today is that the no deal scenario really is is

more of a strategy because as she said herself without that strategy you know if any deal would be fine for the u.k. . interesting point i want to take a listen to what the european commission chief john called you said about this new deal option and also about the way the press the german and the british press have been reporting. british press you have to be a superficial as the british press is. wont to say that working assumption is the new deuce you know. not in favor of no good i will do it. so again or younger says he doesn't want to deal ending but if it were to come to that and he does the e.u. does it have a lot at stake you know you say that it's got more leverage here but it can't possibly want to see the u.k. right now and be in you know the wild west of trading. no absolutely not brand i

mean we're looking at five hundred billion euros compare that to the bracks a bill of fifty billion euros approximately which wharfs that number will look at five hundred billion euros in trade from europe to the u.k. and so clearly there is huge economic interests at stake but here's something that breaks the tears throughout the campaign for bracks it and even now have underestimated and that is the scenario that the you is also not keen and get in giving britain a better deal than they already have and from a european perspective given all the opt outs and the rebate they have an excellent deal and if the you e.u. would give britain a better deal this would be the end of the european of the of the internal market and that is why particularly france and germany are very keen to keep these negotiations tough to do to play hardball and david david davis he went back to the house and car commons and he said the e.u.

and i'm quoting here is using time pressure to see if they can get more money out of a state do you believe that is that what is happening here i think there is a small elements of that i think they there is a concern that the british side has not yet really. put all its cards on the table in a nailed down sufficiently what is going to pay to leave the european union however the clock really is against britain because it's there's a two year period it's mandated in the treaties which began in march so it ends in march twenty nine thousand that is when britain leaves the opinion that is why the new deal is looming larger because they can such slow progress at just the first phase of the talks which is about as you say the bill and the status of when i was wondering things when it just pay the bill and as you know as they used to say in the wild west pay the building get the hell out of dodge why not just do the and so that you can move on to those important trade negotiations. it's not quite as

simple as that because it's reason they is under pressure from a number of backbenchers who really detest the european union to limit in fact almost to nothing the amounts of extra money that britain is liable for for the e.u. now and india is to come but they really don't want money to go having promised during the campaign that three hundred fifty million pounds a week would go back to the n.h.s. the difference is not going to happen it's unlikely to happen any time soon. but about the next stage where we see these trade talks begin in december as the british prime minister is promising and hoping for. brown let's take a look quick look here at face number one and the key points here and that will be the answer citizen rights i think theresa may has a vested interest to keep the workforce of more than three million citizens so yes

i think in citizen rights there's there's a lot there's been quite a bit of progress if you look at northern ireland i think both sides have acknowledged the status quo is the only way forward and in order to clarify that you will need to talk about the future relationship and finally again i agree the bill. if she has or her way against those who want out at all costs i think they can settle on some form of a bill i think it will spare the british prime minister to put a price tag on it because that will be hard to sell back home but i think we will move on to face number two pretty soon i mean this an optimistic look what do you say david i'm optimistic because actually has to happen they have to move on a christmas and i will tell you now that i think the hardest of the three is actually going to be on and i really think it's a very different because of the border because of the border because it's it's unthinkable for the republic of ireland that there has to end g small border posts along a border with a political razor had to be they were removed and successfully removed as

a result of the membership so that's a really tricky one to solve how do you check goods coming in and out of the venue . between northern ireland or the republic of ireland you think that is actually going to be more of a sticking point than the final bill i do because i think you can set out on paper what these figures are on both sides and makes a compromise on the bill it's much harder to run a border between an international trading block and an outside country. with hundreds of little roads crossing it. which technology alone is unable to do you know that's a very good point well i'm sure it will give us reason to talk again about briggs the as we said earlier the never ending story david charter as always thank you and georg marcus on the story for us tonight your brussels. here thank you as well.