no inclination to promote democracy in any form whatsoever what's to suggest that it's going to change and i think. that's what you are correct. to say that in didn't show any inclination to promote democracy what you're talking about is a man that has been a speaker of parliament who should even handedness in parliament for the template for the time he was one we're talking here of a man but the last elections was happy to accept the results therefrom we're talking of a moon who's been individually named own so much and by the you first in two thousand and two when the european council expressed serious concerns among about human rights violations by the government of zimbabwe among two hundred seventy three other people absolutely collective responsibility yes great council's ban was extended in two thousand and four in two thousand they accused him was the main guy who up as a member of the government of engaging in activities that seriously undermine democracy respect for human rights and the rule of law seriously undermine

democracy that doesn't sound so good for the future as a. single last that's in your balance which would have been a play to any zimbabwean and i tell him you are talking two hundred seventy three members of the establishment so you're basically saying that there's a mob an army there all of this mob and military forces should because the top iraq war then well you're saying the bureaucrats you're saying the journalists that we're there we're undermining democracy in english came out of the president didn't really love it went along with. him it's best to extinguish democracy now here after you know not him that's not correct what's what so everybody else got it wrong you got it wrong the us which also sanctioned him got it wrong everybody got what they were intended no you were serious understood. that's correct the point i'm making is yes there were a human rights violations that stuff goes without saying and against when national building but yes we've taken responsibility was weak went and put in place and you . you ever say that any responsibility it's all because nobody's been brought to

justice but because of takers because it's because of course because of postage what we have in you at which is coming police of national reconciliation with all of these matters will be dealt with so you do all really janish a look at national healing yes i think also going to deal with the most serious allegations made against mr moon which came in the two thousand and two un report to the security council it calls him the key strategist of an elite group involved in illicit diamond trading if you read that book and i read the reports and that report is full of conjecture and innuendo eleanor france was wherever they were simply calling him the benjamin if you read you a little bit more for an investigation what investigation into energy use allegations what's allegations that you were the bad men of all of the goldmans of the reports of the networks which he was a senior figure who made money through what they called a variety of criminal activities including theft embezzle meant diversion of public funds undervaluation of goods smuggling false invoicing nonpayment of taxes

kickbacks to public officials and bribery to me if you had read the reports is you want to pretend you did you would not know the returns or. the returns you see but there is right a list there's no specific there's no specific allegation what is the reason is that when i was in a certain or tell us the bagmen it was where the speaker of parliament was a big man for the government of zimbabwe government of zimbabwe that's what the that's what the report says but there's nothing specific so nothing was abused as a gated here not even worth investigating even please above the law anyway so why if why but if they could not if they're in the congo or lost some down once or lost money to number one or allegedly the ship it's for them to investigate what's theirs but would you visit it's also been demonstrated nobody is what. that's ok then it's very careful though saying democratic republic of congo all in a fight i must admit i was not there no i'm saying sort of our responsibility is to use money to investigate things that happened in the congo. well moses was the man

in the congo in the most anybody because the the opposition's on one on one go with the one on him out in multiple operations they are on many governments organise many governments so let them investigate mr miller are you expect zimbabweans never mind the international community simply to gloss over all this instead of seeking a detailed accounting of what took place or don't you care or do you simply don't care or don't just sit there on the rose petals which of which mr mandela were in the to in the generals are being throw away i mean i've been threatened with their been fitted with rose petals right now the u.s. including the generals are talking about all way involved in all of this and that actually about so it means muslims are happy with that situation the people that aren't happy you know really you know we're happy on the wonders of it will you know is going to come on to that a little bit but let's talk about the public theater of the last ten days to make up for that or mr mugabe wasn't pushed out in order to bring in democracy now the p.f.

had been perfectly happy trashing democracy for thirty five years the thing that brought change was the terrible realisation that mr mugabe was going to bring his wife into the top job and that would have upset all the vested interests in your country people who counted on. coming in to protect their interests and the secret couldn't know about not just me couldn't risk that not also correct what people cannot risk is somebody who people ought to be unstable in what appeared in behaved in as a terrible way to take over the controls of power in zimbabwe it would establish it would have established the whole country would have to submit to the region that was the consent that's not the view of did the most with a veteran of the liberation struggle he was close to mugabe for fifteen years he was quite clear the army intervened he said to save son piaf not the country but he was you know this must be not to know just because that is a member of the opposition who also has what vested interests in the event rather than. he told him of the something is wrong he says the armed forces had his open

arms and he was not you know he says the amp forces are made up of zanu p.f. members he said not democrats intent on our sharing in a pluralistic system not democrats intent on showing players success so in other words forget about democracy not just israel in other words when i was answering i was a is a bitter old man but what i'm saying those who are going to for democracy let's forget about what a member of the opposition would say again i said what it was they also go in saying that the movie hold up even at the swearing in ceremony there were people won't take a look at them because the president of botswana for one in karma he said it pretty clearly i don't see why i should wish him mugabe well if he cared nothing for his own people why should i care for him and then there were the crowds that booed the police commissioner general augusto ensuring the calls for him to step down using gave you talk about rose petals for everybody rose petals it's all this i'm sure you didn't actually check the relationship between the people's republic and the

police commissioner general the generals the rest of the army or the letter of the second secular kratz and the general indian. jury why do you think the police were metal strip to stand down why are they want to know right now as i'm talking to your talking train patrol patrols or the army because the police were not trusted by the people they were not trusted by the army they were not trusted by this and they were trusted by only president mugabe why because the person that was second in command of the police is this person and and the war point was to serve god that presidents grow well what do you disturbing to many people young to be in your country there are plenty of signs that the new president is no different from the old one you take is warning about pluralism and political opposition those who oppose us will park and park he said they will continue to park but the p.f. train won't. role on ruling and ruling while they bark again it's all about the

party there's nothing about the crash last that's a misinterpretation of what and that's a direct quote of what you say yes but i will tell you any course get taken out of his contempt and listen this minute you think this man is ever going to allow the barking dogs of the opposition to sweep him out of power you know we shall if they will not of shall if they will you would if they really would it's when used as the backing phrase it's not only about opposition it's even included grace what you are simply saying is when i'm focused on something i'm really like i'm like a train or a locomotive every double round which runs around one alongside the tracks can back and back but the lot of those must top it all the locomotive is not a country p.f. as far as he's gone appears in the loo livy a call for trim it was transformation within the country thirty years falls it has its own locals for most of the very five years it's trash we made mistakes truck democracy or trash not god we didn't trust democrats but yes we made mistakes and

yes we messed up the cornerstone but really it was our first or whatever whatever line you turn when you are a very friendly guy you are a nice jovial sort of think of that for whatever line you tell you know full well that the one guy.