that one will give them i had serious problems on a personal level and i was unable to live their lives i'm going to. want to know their story for my grades firefighting and reliable information for margaret's. followed a very warm welcome indeed to quadriga coming to you from the heart of bird lane and this week to mark international women's day the focus is on women in power take angle americal germany's chancellor for over thirteen years and for many the most powerful woman in the world women are also on the advance in many other countries in the u.s. they're calling for a different kind of politics on the streets and in congress women are also for instance making their presence felt in the two newseum parliament and young

activists like sweden's greater toolbag and pakistan's malawi yousafzai are having a real impact so question on quadriga this week is women in power the better politicians and to discuss that question i'm joined here in the studio by soraya sarhaddi nelson an american journalist who directs the u.s. national public radio bureau here in berlin she believes that women are politically more powerful than ever before but still face great obstacle also with us is an acoa both foreign correspondent for spiegel magazine she argues that women are gaining influence globally as entrepreneurs politicians and activists but when people are seeking refuge in war zones women are always the first victims and a warm welcome to the current taylor who is among other things an advisor on human rights for a german member of. amends curran say that one hundred years after the introduction

of women's suffrage in germany the proportion of women in politics is still below fifty percent we need a quota she says so that we do not have to wait another hundred years for parents current you are not taken i would like to stay with you international women's day why is it important why is it still important. it's important and so many ways for us you already mentioned my statement we need parity in every parliament i would say in the world not only in germany that's one thing but we also need to focus on the struggles women face every day we have women out off being out off social security you know out of financial security we have sexualized violence to mexico domestic violence these topics which touch women specifically and we don't talk about them enough despite all that soraya you say that women are more powerful

than they have ever been before how does that manifest itself well in the united states so we've just had a historic congressional election in which almost twenty four percent of the house of representatives is now. basically made up of women you have twenty five women senators and even so it really shines a light on how far behind the united states is in many ways because it's not even the average if you look at the intra program tree rank rankings of women make up but having said that there's a lot of discussion about women who are going to be running in the twenty twenty alexion i mean there's a lot more focus on women in power the obstacles again are very great though when you look at the averages and where women actually do stand in the power structure and susan of the i saw one headline of her blog which had a headline which i think is symptomatic of what you're saying here that it said we've come a long way but there's still no fully long way to go what's the good news and what's the bad for you as a as a roving correspondent i see that i mean there is definitely a mom to for women in

a globalized world because they could reach out to opportunities with which they didn't have before and also a lot of. governments which week would consider as conservative or maybe even ultra conservative let's let's for instance referred to because saudi arabia they understand that their economy would work so much better if they involve more women and provide them with more chances so there is definitely a potential. and an acknowledgment of that of that flag and that's that's that's the good thing turn you're nodding. yeah i was nodding because i agree to the to the chances women have to globalization due to the digitalisation as well i believe that a lot of movements which have started from the ground a lot of grassroots movement used to tools of the. social media and digitalization

as such in order to get their voices heard because again if you look at the parliaments we see that women still a minority even doe a lot of parliament a lot of parties and a lot of governments for now also have a woman standing at the front but if we look at the second the third and even the fostering where we still talk about that isn't the signal making and of our policy making and knocking a lot of women so i guess these new tools need to be used more in a more efficient and more powerful way for women to unite internationally and to move. to move the outrage which started from the street to move them towards apartments so that they can be heard and it's interesting to look to the the website from the international women's day and they say we're entering an exciting period of history where the world expects a balance and there's a lot of talk about gender balance how important is or is does that signify that we've moved into a new phase in the debate because the gender balance doesn't sound like seven ism.

yeah their word feminism i mean i would call myself a feminist i have no problem with saying about but i do understand that out of people maybe also the younger generation has a. i'm with that label but if we talk about gender equality it's it's the it's basically what a feminist fight fall so far now seeing that the debate has evolved yeah i would totally agree but if we look at the facts if we look at the german bunds talk for example we have a only thirty percent off the. women and we have even declined from been lost in a just age and so in this sense we are talking about it even more but the results haven't changed and i was the world bank report says there's only six countries worldwide sweden belgium france denmark levien looks fully equal rights angry does that make you feel. i'm a journalist i don't have feelings i mean it is surprising it was that report was

eye opening because it also talked about only ten countries actually having gender equality or equal rights on the books which i thought it would be more than that i was surprised to see germany was thirty one. and america sixty five i think which is even more shocking and i think disappointing as a woman but i think if you if you look at what's happening in i mean people are standing up and speaking about it more that's not that's the change that i've noticed i mean whether it's the need to have movement whether it's debates about who is at the top certainly are are very. colorful shall we say president that we have at the moment the united states that has really forced the debate certainly to american society you're hearing people are thinking a lot more about that gender equality and i agree that not attaching a feminist label to it i think has made it more palatable maybe for generations you know across the generations whether it's younger or older and it's not a problem that we're focusing too much on something binary men and women have not

been not focusing on class for example race i think there are there are a lot more factors in there and this is why i even like to say are women in power you know the premise here of what we're talking about are women and. is it better to have women in power better to have manpower i just think it sort of defines men and women as opposites which which were not i mean i guess that's just sort of feeds into what that has gone on but having said that i mean obviously people are looking to see women leaders like america and others has that made germany a better place for example these countries that have them and that is how men and women are both looking i think at whether or not it's a good thing to push for this gender equality and power looking very thoughtful who's not and. i was i was thinking about what you just said about mrs merkel i mean there is this old phrase don't tell show and she is one of the perfect examples for that she tried to not for a vocal anybody and at the same time she has achieved

a couple of things which the social democrats always called for and never really achieved so interesting only it's one of the factors for success is that she would not address things in a confrontational. debate in the society which is actually a very difficult thing to say because i mean certainly we we all appreciate the freedoms we have in a democracy in one of the core elements is that we discuss things as they are and remain them as they are and so but she her success was definitely to not raise these issues and i'm sure she is she has nothing against homosexuals but she never really made it a point or she has nothing against any kind of minorities or whatever. because she was dealing mainly with the angry white man she also had to please those and

you can see the row of angry white man who are not in power anymore who she worked with because she just silently found a way to push them aside so yeah so. if you if you. whatever i mean you should write a book if you want to if you want to make this a point but don't tell openly in politics i think that that's the that's the thing you learned from that looking after that fascinating and sort of the role of i'm going to matalin the last ten years in office really really interesting let's talk specifically about women in power including on the three women we have here of who have all been faced with the challenge of making a fresh start after them male preety says is that quite simply mess things up. back when germany's capital was in bonn until americal was called coles girl she served the powerful chancellor helmut kohl and his environment minister when coal stepped down as c.d.u.

party chair following a scandal merkel took the reins of power and in two thousand and five became german chancellor she's enjoyed international influence ever since. to recent may also stepped into the breach when a man failed british prime minister david cameron initiated and lost the bricks and referendum and resigned many took over the office in two thousand and sixteen although many opposed by accident first she still had to manage her country's exit from the e.u. . after sexual assault allegations ousted then i.m.f. head of an extra christine legarde stepped into the breach for the past eight years she has steered the i.m.f. with a competent steady hand she's maintained a clear position including donald trump can it be that women only get to positions of power after men have found. some sort of i would you like to pick up on that question. it's interesting because

there's no doubt that these women didn't necessarily come at a high time in their various countries situations and there's no doubt i mean it was interesting was a harvard business review study that showed that countries with leaders that were women that were diverse actually did better economically one could say germany was one of those i mean there has been great economic growth under the at the time of merkel if you want to say it's because she was a woman leader or because of what her policies i mean that's obviously a matter of debate for for many people for her opponents and for her supporters but but yeah it does seem that you know that women have to take advantage of the opportunities as they get them the opportunities to. some leaders are still very difficult as well from what code may look god part of a generation of female leaders who who had to play the game according to men's rules and slowly bend and change those rules but they couldn't rewrite them in the way that perhaps young the younger generation of politicians might begin to do so

now well again i mean i've only in terms of my coverage of merkel i would say you know for six years for n.p.r. i was the bureau chief here and it was clear that she didn't define it that way she just used i mean she didn't say ok we're going to play by men's rules we're going to do we're going to be divided by women's rights she played by merkel's rules i mean that record that was that meant very thoughtful consideration and not just immediately jumping at something being very cool and calm because emotion leaders who are emotional or women leaders who express any kind of anger or rage or things that we might see in male leaders you get pinned for more for it when you're a woman leader so i can't i wouldn't i mean yes i guess that means maybe they were playing by the men's roles but i i don't see it quite as that i just see it as a sort of redefining it but not doing it in a very aggressive manner turning the question we're addressing today is do women do politics differently do women do politics better than men maybe it's

a cliche question i'm not sure but it's an important one i think for the transition phase the whip said exactly cos we're in that transition transition phase i would still say it's an important question even though it's kids say pinpointing women against men and opening up to different groups and i wouldn't want to answer the question if women are the better politician i don't expect women to be the better petitions what i expect is that women get fifty percent of the power that's the first deal if you tell me. so you know ironically or maybe because if men are bad politicians we never pinpoint the agenda of being the reason why they are bad petitions why should we do that with women so that's what i. what i want to say i was going to do expect different politics from women do you have higher standards different standards or different sort of standards i think they have different topics in mind i mean they know for instance the difficulty to. have

a family and have a career at the same time and at the same time if they if they focus on that they won't be very successful because again it's something which is such a major point that changes society if you want to equalize that. that you would not be successful by provoking half of the heart of your country or maybe thirty percent of the country so i think it's a very delicate and i think it's a good good thing that you mentioned that we are going to insist transition phase in this transition phase women cannot really show perfectly what they really have in mind what they really would like to do to create in a society differently than a man but they have to fulfill the expectations of all these white men and do it quite similar as they're free to sensors and at the same time they need to add something and push it into erection so attract women as well so it's really

a difficult task if you talk about the leaders we see in your friends but i think we're definitely moving into another into another sphere because also these hierarchies does do not exist. as they existed like thirty years before and i think we are also moving into a direction that hierarchies do not do that are not sustainable as much as we have seen them in the last fifty years if i might add i wouldn't completely agree because in the past we've seen women vote whether stable vote test they voted for the left in the last elections in germany but also in the u.s. we've seen women are not satisfied with what their regular parties offer them anymore they want. they are subject to topics in the center of the parties so i believe the parties have to really open and openly say what they are actually offering women and you mentioned social security you mentioned security for

families these a subject which have been hidden in the past by the regular parties regular parties i'd say so and you have other parties for example in germany now. turning to watch the women and saying we are your party also funding a new kind of feminism so i guess the danger here is that the old parties lose the women by kind of hiding that genda and not really turning towards the women so i'd really like to make that difference here but i just wondered if you have any sense of this was something like a global battle between men and women because we're seeing more and more sort of strong men as it were in verse government leaders we're seeing the the kind of politics the populist politics the you were just talking about this seems to be some of the real guard action by men trying to sort of keep control over women to sort of alaska kind of attend well i don't i'm not even sure i would even call it a last gasp it could take much longer than that i certainly see that sort of

development i would say more strongly maybe in afghanistan than the middle east saudi arabia the emirates on one hand they claim to be promoting a women's rights on the other hand you have this for example u.a.e. this the united arab emirates earlier i guess it was in january had a celebration or they wanted to give awards for gender equality that they were doing but only had men at this event and only men were being there for it was but is this sort of sort of shows the dichotomy it does seem that men are getting stronger or really tried to clasp or cling to that power we're seeing examples in afghanistan right now with the taliban deal that would be a real issue for women's rights a real blow if in fact this negotiation. steel comes to being that there's a peace deal in which women were not a part of all the afghan government was not a part yeah. ok well one trend that we've been seeing is for young women and girls to courageously take their future into their own hands and do what they can to

bring about change let's just take a look for example so there. even you know so this is why the team to make you can change your community. to keep girls that's malala yousafzai is message the young pakistani activist risked her life for her convictions in two thousand and twelve she was targeted by the taliban and shot on a bus on the way to school but she survived ever since then malala has continued her tireless campaign for girls' education. i'm not leaving until i see you. i want. this dramatic cry for help via twitter from a hotel room in bangkok may draft mohammed world famous in the end canada granted her asylum graef fled from her family in saudi arabia she felt threatened and restricted by the stern rules governing women's behavior there. i want to depend.

on you. my. swedish student activist greater too unbearable spoke at the world economic forum in davos her sit down strikes protesting in action on climate change are a wake up call for politicians and inspire other students to protest courageous young women will they change the world. suzanne are willing to change the world is your. most labels yes most likely yes and i think there are topics which are not focusing on. gender. issues i mean climate change for instance is something which will let us forget everything else i mean and everybody will fight for it at the same time and this this this girl is a very impressive personality at the same time people like young ladies like. there's one. thing which should be mentioned behind especially in islamic countries

behind. outspoken women there's always a great father or men behind these women because otherwise they would not be allowed to so i mean this this saudi lady she escaped she's the only one who did this without any support but great has obviously a supportive family in my life to has a supportive family and this other lady this other ladies. that she she fled from have families to be true to to live a life which she is seeking and i think yes young women will find their voice and will find their way in there will definitely. change the world yes i would say education has a lot to do with that more than a muslim countries at least a supportive family as simple as necessary for example the woman that i'm writing about who's going to climb the highest mountain in afghanistan first afghan woman

did that she she her parents support her you know support her being part of this american program that allowed her to do this but but having said that i think education is more important i mean because i didn't khandahar there was a young woman who fled her family because her family wanted to kill her because she wouldn't get married because she had gone to school she had taste in school she wanted to be a journalist and she was fleeing from house to house to be able to go to school that's one of power and bravery and just sort of resolve like we see with malala and women like that i mean to me it seems education is sort of a cork opponent that in turn. we saw going to be point for a sixteen year old i phone quite militant saying it would he wants to specifically say i want them to feel fear talking to the politicians do we need to be more militant still because you know as we said at the beginning of the program they've been waiting one hundred years sort of thing like full equality. i think we need to be more outspoken i wouldn't call greater military and for saying it was angry to.

me that that's just the truth because if your scenario girl said. everyone yeah it's for me it's just something we all know that climate change is gonna change the world as we know it and we all know that we had to react yesterday and tomorrow she is just bold enough to skip school to face the criticism of angry white men in this case and to be bold enough and say as it is so i believe maybe if people stop listening to her that's the way to go yeah. what do you expect from men. that's a lot of like what do you mean it's not a loaded question. if you can't see that almost. comes to power we mean women being in power yeah i mean we just who we just agreed that there is something like a global confrontation between men and women what you would i do i don't see it

that way i see it i mean i guess for me it's the younger generation i look at my son for example who speaks about women completely differently than even my husband who is actually i would argue a feminist you know it's it just seems that there's more of a cohesiveness and i don't even think the younger generation esther looks and says you're a girl and i'm a guy i think that's maybe our generation that still says or you know our generation is still in charge so if you don't doubt that is interesting and helpful . to them. i think there is a group which we should we use which we should have a dialogue which was. a mage a minority of whites of a white elite especially men who are now losing power and opportunities and everything but they're still extremely powerful and so the leverage they have also on. women who tried to change the world is

quite quite big and this is a confrontational situation which we will have to deal with in the future. yeah i mean. for me it's yes one thing it's about education but it's also about the way we talk to our children it's about the way which which example we get to our children because these structures will not change by themselves i don't believe that we need to give the frame and actually say it as if we live in this somehow sexist society and that we need to change that ok thank you all for being a very early on mother going to be very interesting discussion of women in power the best of all as missions were i think the answer to that is no but then from very very different men and women thanks for joining us if you joined the show as much as i did come back next week and so on by barge and shields.

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