president to churches response was told. by the rich will never gain political gain. reconquest turned into a tragedy this is not the kind of freedom that we want. how did morality become a gateway to islamist terror. an exclusive report from a destroyed city. in the in the science of i.r.s. starts april eleventh on d. w. . illiam. hello and welcome to quadriga declaring that europe has never been so necessary as today nor so endangered french president emanuel mccall has once again laid out a vision for europe for what he calls a renaissance saying that he wants to mobilize citizens across the continent in the

run up to elections for the european parliament less than two and a half months from now in fact many share macross view that the e.u. is facing its most acute crisis yet increasingly divided over policy toward migrants disillusioned by a prolonged and chaotic breck set and polarized by the rise of right wing nationalism. or the populists who can convince europe that's the title of our show today and here i guess it's who will answer that question it's a pleasure to welcome you whole she is german but lived for many years in belgium and in france she's a professor of political science and heads the department of european studies and democracy at the claims university in austria and she says europe can only be successful if the german and french leaders move closer together derek scully is from ireland and works as the berlin correspondent for the irish times and he

thinks for years germany's vocation has been a self-deception just a cliche and phrases that are twenty years old and convince no one any more and it's a pleasure to welcome milan niche he is originally from slovakia and works as an analyst on eastern europe for the german think tank. he says president back home is attempting polarization has so far benefited the populists in a paradox way it plays into the hands of hungary's prime minister orbán and his framing of european parliamentary elections through a us versus them. so let me start out. by asking you this opinion polls actually show that sixty percent of european citizens and in many countries more than that have a positive opinion of the e.u. so is the situation really as dire as president to mccraw laid it out is the very existence of the european union in fact in danger as he sets i think if you asked

people what do they think about i mean it's a bit like asking people what is your opinion of christmas you know sixty seventy eighty percent will have a positive opinion what we've never had in the european union is the discussion about what kind of europe i mean what i've never personally ever understood is a national politics we say you know do we want more right wing policies more left wing policies you know is politics there for the small people is it there to be pro-business and in europe as soon as you get into that you sort of get into you hate europe you can criticize europe and more slowly so actually start to see thanks to the populists are actually starting to see a sort of differentiated view of europe and my call comes along with his vision for in a sense for europe as if there can only be one europe and that is the europeans proposing and anyone else who doesn't agree with that is somehow a critic of europe and wants to undermine europe and i find this rather depressing that we keep going around in this circle that the the dog keeps biting its own tail i thought after the euro crisis we realized that europe us before they are for the people not just for the governments and i think mr mccollum the slightly living in

sort of the twentieth century version of europe. your opening statement suggests that you don't think president will achieve his goal of mobilizing citizens across europe you seem to think that his vision is counterproductive at least in the view of many eastern europeans why is that he's president of friends of his first task is to mobilize his own citizens to support the to support a marshall place that he's political party in may in the european parliament elections so far that the hope has not been does that successful in mobilising actually. he's old walters potential voters and i think the projection for his part the european elections stands at twenty two pct which will put him even among the top three political parties in europe so my question would be with all these great visions and oratory and pops what is actually political relevance of it who could

be his allies and how strong this vision will be in terms of representation in a very divided and fragmented european parliament that we will get off of the elections let's talk about the degree to which he could find here in germany only to go to the last time the president might call laid out a big vision it was september of twenty seventeen and it was clearly timed and targeted toward german leaders that doesn't seem to be the case this time why is that what accounts for the difference when i mean it was talking to germany you go to a response from i think that come come bob but let me pick up what their extent he said on the question i think that is sort of a twenty century vision when he targets this only to a franklin attend them because what is missing in the whole story is what do the citizens fund from here up what does the people of europe one and if you are slovakian all portuguese or irish frankly german tom them is not i mean is always good but it's not sort of what you are caring for and i think the moment that you

target this proposal from a call to america on the company you have a narrow discussion field on what is going on and i think there is really there it is right in saying that we have a market now we have a currency don't have a european democracy and there's not one vision like mccall's vision of how europe should be but there are many visions and the real problem is do we have an institutionalized structure of the european democracies and then we decide the politics sort of believe on the left liberal green whatever europe or do we want europe at all and i would say what is not on the table is. that they decide that we want to have a democracy in which we on the european level in which we then decide about the politics of the turn about this year president obama says that the vision he is laying out actually would create a europe that would be more responsive to citizens needs and their expectations let's take a closer look at some of the proposals he's suggesting. macro's appeal to the

citizens of europe appeared in all the big newspapers in twenty eight countries in twenty two languages. the french president is a dedicated european. he believes that the continent is in danger and this was his wake up call. to people school hope so many believe that europe will be brought down by those who seek to sow division i believe that it may also be brought down by those who have given up on the idea of a strong and united europe. to correct the situation mccrone proposed in part to create a common european border force an asylum agency a crackdown on businesses that harm the environment or don't pay their taxes and an e.u. wide minimum wage. once again micro have sought to portray himself as a european visionary. but how much support to these proposals really have.

derek scully the proposals are pretty sweeping they range from defending electoral democracy to industrial policy to environmental laws and stronger cooperation on defense can you unpack this package for us what do you see as key areas and you sounded skeptical about the degree to which this really does meet citizens needs i'm actually no longer really interested in these proposals until somebody comes along and says had the proposed to do is what's the point in even talking about it it's just more ideas i mean i could come up with proposals for the european union and put them in twenty newspapers around the world i'd have to spend a lot of money on stamps and emails but i could do that unless he says how he proposes to do it who are his allies and these are just more proposals and i wish you know i wish more movement would come in here but even i'm starting to get cynical people can come up with think tanks in this is what think tanks to doing

he's the head of he's the president of france what we saw as he puts proposals on the table germany comes along with its red pen and puts a rather red lines for about half of them and then the other half say yeah maybe and then you ask the germans my favorite party trick these days is when i'm out to dinner table were german politicians i say when was the last time germany had a good new idea for europe you just get these terrified faces they haven't had a good idea since home with coal they're very good at saying no and they're very good at saying why something won't work and that's starting to get really old let's come back in just a moment to germany's own ideas a lack there of but only to go i hear you making affirmative. sounds when it comes to derek skepticism about yet another big package of proposals the first thing i totally underscore everything that there was clearly has said i mean we're not hanging around with this question since michael's proposals were essentially hanging around with them since the trade off must shift ever closer union ninety two so that's the. the us that we are discussing how to do

a political union and that is thirty years how we did try to find a question to who decides in the european union is this the nation states is this the european commission the parliament or perhaps it's the european people in a redesigned european institutional set up where the people other sovereign and these questions on the table we had a constitutional amendment two of three two thousand and three it failed we had two negative referenda it's time to go back to this moment because if we want europe and be twenty one here up that functions that it has officials see and that is political there's alex and the hamilton around nothing is without constitution so europe needs a constitution or it will fail just just just devil's advocate president mccraw did say he wants to see processes in institutions that would strengthen electoral democracy in europe and he has in the past proposed reforms to decision making structures among other things a finance minister for the eurozone who would have the ability to create real eurozone fiscal policy much of that hasn't gone over very well with other i mean

i'm totally in favor of these proposals i think in essence it's good proposals but coming back to what their experience says if we cannot implement them then it's meaningless and the real question is can the system away from itself i think we are confronted with a stroke a momentum in which we are shown every day more that that you system in itself a perfectly has no more capacity or will or both to reform itself and that's why it's basically turning in circles and that's why we're having gone from one proposal in the next memorandum to the next from the well known without responding to the central question who these sites in europe and as long as we cannot put a clear answer behind this in the sort of political science terms we do not know who the sovereign is the nation state the european union all the people it should be the people in the current structure it's not spiegel and because of the current structure of the people do not decide in europe europe is falling apart into the hands of populists you learn ditched let's take one particular issue migration policy. actually there are clear rules that decide about migration policy for

europe but the eastern european countries have not been willing to go along with those rules the migration system in fact is broken as president mike ross said isn't it and his proposals include measures that would strengthen border protection isn't that actually something yesterday european countries would like to see yes well i'm there are happy that these governments official countries are happy how the debate has developed in the last few years and they feel quietly winning the debate because they don't want to receive you as item speakers even though they are at historically low of unemployment in their own countries and they will need more people to work two full days. so nice economic growth that they have but of the same time they want to strengthen external border. i think centrism europeans like the. response that came from britain from the new chairwoman of the to do to

mccrone ideas also because the successor of chancellor merkel that you know for this i want to say well yeah i mean you know it is the head of the party sorry she's there. also what could only see in these centuries in europe as somebody who is very much pushing french interest not european interest is beckoning as your interest but he does this is interest of frogs and i can even imagine how his how his opiate was put together and that the best minds in french diplomatic service proposed these ideas but in the european council after the election in europe in parliament who will support us not centuries europeans although i would credit mccrone with his tour to centuries to europe last summer and before he reached out to the norden europe to century appearance because he's trying to pick up winners and this is the crucial clash i think between paris and berlin what could old ones to move on into smaller europe germany is a start with quotation and is terrified about starting to shake things up because.

not only today but i think also the german foreign policy establishment is afraid that that's that's a stepping stone to disintegration so germany is no protecting you at twenty seven of the brics it including hungary and in spite of what obama is doing. at all is trying to find the allies including in centuries in europe for his deeper integration so let me come back to whether in fact these proposals did find allies here in berlin derek you said in your opening statement that the germans e.u. vaiko cation is dusty in cliche did berlin dust itself off in response to what macross proposed they responded but that's all they do they respond they say yes to this and no to that i mean they they said yes yes the border they said she also knocked in a few things like she said maybe we should get rid of the second seat of the european parliament which is in strasbourg knowing france to say no she said we

should have european a seat at the your u.n. security council knowing that france has its season doesn't want to give it up so i saw she said yes to a couple of things but it just it sounded very much like uncle americal she. could have written us opinion piece that it was very much sort of a defense of i have sympathy for the german position that you germany has to try and hold things together but whenever you asked german politicians i asked under americans what do you mean the middle of the euro crisis just for fun as a what do you actually want for europe and apart from holding it together you can hold them to your own and watch it fall apart you know it's like some sort of brechtian you know heroin you know if you're charged for mother courage tries to hold a family together and destroys it so holding together just isn't enough sometimes and where you know i was hoping with which for a come come i would hear a new tone but who's yes because these as i said these phrases from the cold air are really starting to look at it tired. just for clarification for some of our viewers the she whom derek was refute referring to there was not chancellor merkel

it was her successor at the head of the christian democratic party on a great comp college bauer who gave the response here to my cross proposals what do you make of that why was it this new party leader a k k she's often known here what does that signify i think you can have two readings yeah if you have a color you can say why did the chance last for me why is the women of the party but you can't have a reading from on the guy as a basically that macca to let on the great come proud of replied means that mack of was sending a signal to germany that i think it come comp last should become the next sense ally also i think it depends on your viewpoint and how you interpret the very fact that the answer to a president of france has been done by a leader of a party but the of course the point to come back to derek and underscore again everything he said is that what we have seen is a french german that makes whether friends are also kissing on the money the

eurozone budget the solidarity the minimum wage sort of things which in the theory of what would you do is the left of a state yes where is the ply from john. mini which is about military refugees security policy and sense of force is the right of a state and it's as if france and germany are doing this there is a my call here goes empty and there is a germany there goes empty would be better to do this we learned just this old idea that a french german town dim is necessary to drive europe as if motor is that in itself a dusty old cliche yes or no. and interesting reflection of these exchange of. ideas between person berlin and centuries in your was. a certain sort of acknowledgment ok now but lynn says what they wanted we hope that britain will always keep the small countries on board because the next real

political fight will be about two things the next year budget and the single market and what is president mccone trying to do is to increase standards and rules for single market. as another way of french protectionism when he started on postal workers but as germany's for the school country because single market is great for german economy and the elephant in the room is the eurozone the future of the eurozone which was not addressed by by the way i like the way that she thought of the hold a letter. or that because these are her first elections as a party leader built on going to medical election anymore she is she will be tested by these elections i like the fact that it was fast swift a little bit of provocative basically saying a message to present look from that if you ask something from germany to sacrifice

you should sacrifice as a second seat of the european parliament and your u.n. security council seat so essentially the two are the two of them using the media to try to make love this show that mania is only good that it sorry i'm going to and i've got my eye on on the time and i want to be sure that we come back to the question of the rise of right wing populism in europe i mentioned those polls that show a lot of support in europe for the e.u. but polls also show a likely upsurge in the upcoming e.u. parliamentary elections for right wing populists are reports starts in hungary. these posters were put up by hungary's governing party peta. they claim that hunger and american investor george soros and european commission president john clarke are promoting illegal migration to hungary. a lot of europeans believe that kind of propaganda recent polls indicate that populist and nationalist

groups are set to make big gains in upcoming european parliament elections. to europe of nations and freedom parliamentary group includes italy's northern league austria's freedom party. in france's national rally party. the governing parties in hungary and poll understood to be close to these other party. right wing nationalist parties have one thing in common they are frustrated with the european union. but how much more right wing populism will europe be able to take. and let me pass that question right on to you. has right wing nationalism reached a tipping point or will we see that in the end it's a passing phenomenon no i think that. it's increasing and its system at this is

incremental and it's suspect the systemic which is if you pass a certain. level say the thirty percent threshold is very important yet twenty percent you can neglect thirty percent the system cannot make click and you can see from all figures whether that's also true or you keep us i want to see you not that we have basically peaking beyond the thirty percent and thirty percent has a set number in all systems so what it means is that these parties passionately govern they have incremental stakes into the system they do they good they they sort of hijack the institutions from the inside they change the persons in the institutions be that in the court's view that's in the media or they abandoned free media and so you have incremental effects and these effects i think that will stay because they're systemic. minnich missed or bones party in hungary faces possible banishment at the moment from the e.u. parliamentary group to which it belongs could that tarnish its image at home or abroad not at home. abroad yes i think it would first of all limit the money

over space of hungary and prime minister on the e.u. level and therefore i think. victor most will do its utmost to step back or or climb down from this confrontation tone as we were coming to the studio there was a news that he actually sent letters to the thirteen european peoples party members that request that vote in the debate and perhaps expulsion or suspension of if he does party. at the next political awesomely of a sense red block on twenty first of margin brussels and the apologized for if he'll find that somebody you will see a lot of friends around if he doesn't already leave or he lies he will and doesn't want to leave the largest european political party he wants to complain you know hungry have a good result still because as a member of this blog and then decide what to do next and paradoxically he

supposedly also doesn't want to leave the e.u. he absolutely wants to keep hungry in the e.u. and how gary and in fact support the e.u. they say in polls derek scully. another potential deterrent that's out there of course is the do bacco of bragg's that we've seen chaos it seems ongoing do you think that that could discourage some right wing nationalists either again within great britain or abroad yes we had the new leader meccas the sense from the party i'm going to come come boris she said about a week ago she said you know if anyone needed a good you know an advertisement for why the european union was necessary look at the chaos in britain you see where shortsighted nationalism goes so in a way. in a bizarre way although we're still in the middle of the breaks and calles a hushed tone well if you want to retreat to your little island mentality go ahead you know but the trouble is you're dragging other countries down with you so in our that i don't think there's be any sort of. boost for populists there i mean where

we are very very dependent on the european union even more so now as i don't really see britain is now its own can its own entity but i do see across europe i see in germany a problem because germany claims to be a european nation you know because of the war and never again war but whenever you ask german politicians they're already looking at the checkbook how much is this going to cost us so they they talk to european talk but since your crisis we've gotten to the very hard nosed germany where it's all of it what's it's going to cost us and that's at odds with what everything germany in the european was supposed to be about but because something of a paradox here we see euro skepticism strongest in many of the countries in the east and eastern europe that have benefited enormously from e.u. membership and on the other hand countries like portugal or greece where there has been euro you're you imposed austerity very painful have almost no right wing nationalist how do you account for that first i think it's wrong to say that that

countries who have benefited because they're what you need to look at this which group of which country has benefited yes they in germany banks industry has a lot of benefited from the euro done in citizens you may discuss this and the same for greece you have very wealthy greek who have the benefit that their lot we didn't save with all these bailouts that gets us out of the greek citizens be safe that they get on the i'm very important to talk about account for the fact that there are very well you're right we popular because you have an inverse populism which is if some vini is standing there and says because of the e.u. i cannot have a basic income in italy then he increases populism against the european union but everyone else sort of eeny feel it's the northern european populism because then if sally is something he wants money the germans do not want to pay so it's only with a receipt procope sort of grouping of populism to our research program. i have a building up our title asked who can convince europe populists are just you either one of mine to be young people who are in need to fight not to start new young europe and arland not just on the climate but also on europe. for the duration in

centuries to know what your lections presidential actions is lucky thank you very much to all of you for being with us and thanks to you out there for joining and see you said.

cleek. still. i'm secure in the by a war that's hard and in the end it's a me you're not allowed to stay here anymore we will send you back. are you

familiar with this. with the smugglers were alliances of the what's your story. on what numbers of women especially are victims of violence in. part and send us your story we are trying always to understand this new culture. saw you are not a visitor now that yes you want to become a citizen. in four migrants your platform for reliable information. on. what's the connection between bread cloud and the european news. no guild month us d w correspondent and avid baker craft. turn to stone age jokes about recipes for success i am the strategies that

make a difference. at baking bread. on d w. mentioned being born in this. world was the can prove that since. you want to look for new school. you want to be useful but on allowed to. when you're sick the doctors know when you fall in love they won't mind you don't have children for fear they'll be invisible to. you wish you. have knows. when you've gone there's no proof. whoever exists. every ten minutes. someone misses. ten million people in the world this think they have no nationality and they don't belong and. that everyone has the right. everyone

has the right to say. this is g.w. news live from berlin britain's parliament votes to put the brakes on brags that lawmakers forced the government to ask brussels for a three month delay to the start of the u.k.'s departure from the european union but will the e.u. say yes and will more time fix britain's said mess also coming up tonight a former british soldier is charged for his part in

a nine hundred seventy two mass shooting in northern ireland and one of the worst episodes of the northern ireland conflict british troops.