i'll need to reinforce it. and knew this but it was happening i was not following any rules. but controversial leader whose success is beyond question. on the tragic charge of people for g.w. . britain's foreign secretary has warned of brecht's it paralysis in the u.k. but there are frantic efforts underway to prevent that happening my guest this week here in london is nigel mills a member of the pro bracks it european research group which has consistently campaigned for a tough deal with brussels tougher than the one currently on the table or no deal at all last week though mr mills changed his mind and decided to support to resume a's agreement are the diehards finally calling it a day. by

john mills welcome to conflict zone thank you have you finally accepted that the european union is not going to blink when it comes to the deal on the table they finally mean what they said this is the only deal with a little body has not changed substantially since november so aside from some some clarification i think we have to accept that that's really the likely situation i think you could rule out i'm trying to help the prime minister at the summit by offering a few more clarification from all neatly interpretations but i think the substance there is going to change in the state so your colleagues in the g.d. european research group fundamentally underestimated the didn't the. well kept saying it was going to blink i mean we had this return to bridgend didn't we the e.u. will blink at the eleventh hour but we're not there yet we need to hold our nerve they were never going to blink ever estimated only

a shooting abilities in our situation were estimated but i think we are and i think any of us when we set out on this after the referendum for we end up in this situation of you know having no idea what the future partnership is being asked to sign a transition which restricts future partnerships and you know not really having anything in return for it but i think the have held firm to their positions about may not have been a sensible tactic for them we haven't quite know how the next week or so will go you know we still haven't agreed a deal we still haven't agreed an extension you know they're still scared around if i do agree the government agree to do you agree it is i haven't gone through parliament to mean that's the key thing but this is this idea that the e.u. always blinks which we've heard from many of your colleagues this was a fundamentally force assumption wasn't it that somehow britain had equal cards with the e.u. it didn't never did in this negotiation i think once it became clear the government

weren't really serious about us leaving that a deal then we didn't have equal cardinality at that point you're asking for something in you could always take what you're given haven't you but they're the is the largest trading group in the world they hold all the cards it's their club that you're leaving they will decide what rules apply should you wish to take advantage of some of the. privileges on offer. with that club after i think what i thought we had in our manifesto eighteen months or so ago was that we wanted to be comprehensive training arrangement with them they've agreed on those of command in every one of those would be japan i'd be quite happy just to replicate the terms of that i'm not asking them for anything that's the largest trading agreement in the world currently which britain is walking away from but he signed with japan the largest trading well that's not the arrangement that we have with the currently we're walking away from a political union with the european union not walking away from trading relationships i say we because he won't be able to take advantage of that deal with

you but we were going korea someone with japan i mean they've said they want to have those discussions they want me to say it for me to be someone but i think if your contention is that there was nothing here you know what we have to agree to anything in the you are ever going to offer us that you know i think we would have been quite happy many of us to take your an agreement will be offered other people who are further away who are less big market and we don't have a hundred billion pound a year surplus we did have some cards to play think we played them pretty badly the european research group seems to be now doing the blinking we're seeing former minister estimate they say that she's going to vote for two reasons deal even david davis the former minister and now jacob riis mug says he's undecided he's the chairman of the group so the die hards are finally calling it a day other well i voted for the deal last week so if i was a diehard i call it a day but i you know i think you have to look at the facts as they are on the day you make your voting decision and your i don't like this there is

a lot of great situation to put the country in mr constraining us i was in the way we we shouldn't be doing but some of the options have now left the table we don't have a government to until last week haven't said whether they would do no deal or not if a deal failed now made it perfectly clear that they don't want to you know the apartment made it clear the parliament wouldn't. no deal breakers it so the choice is now the prime minister's deal or what looks like a long extension and i think it's clear to me that the deal is the better better boast you talk about facts but it's been hard to sort of some of the fantasies that you breaks it is sold to the public into only sixteen before the referendum hasn't really like the promise from david davis himself to have negotiated a free trade area ten times the size of the e.u. by the autumn of twenty eighteen where did fantasies like that come from lighter remember that fantasy but. we voted to leave. the should have been able to have

a constructive dialogue with the new machine able to leave by now in future partnership but not on the basis that i don't want a i mean my go go for instance the day after we vote to leave we hold all the cards and we can choose the path we want what was that when i was there with some seahawks wasn't it we could have chosen to say we'll leave without a deal here's a draft free trade deal take it or leave it we didn't choose to play the card in that way we've been trying to secure. the government been trying to secure what looks like a hybrid half in half out ration ship which the e.u. did think was cherry picking the city insult fairytales to the country you sold the public a part didn't you i think we did i thought i think we resolved all visions of an independent country that can make you same decisions that wanted to have a cooperative trading relationship with it and there is neighbor i think people watching this i would be a little bit confused as to why the us stuck so long to the line that they can't negotiate the future arrangement until we left and what people wanted us to do was leave a move into the new relationship seamlessly emacs's the crazy situation to say to

your nearest market we would trade sellers are going to even talk to you about your future relationship until you've actually walked out the door you know where the logic you know about one of things is driven to they simply don't know whether it's logical to to you it's logic seems logical to them and again as long as they held although even here we are leaving date without a deal in place with our law still being to leave that's not grounds. we knew a thousand days of disunity among the tory party factional disputes fantasy promises and almost criminal failure to consider the. good of the country and the national enquirer i will be horribly lucky but a little i think everyone just in for the good of a country when a silly single biggest reason we've taken in more than my lifetime in public from a decade of anybody in parliament voting for half of the don't think in the national interest and i mean that's just a free and fair thing to say well if they had been working in the national interest we would have seen people ready to compromise ken clarke the father of the house

that the public holds the house of commons in near contempt for the fusion they see not only is opinion polarized here lots of factions are pursuing their own preferred ways but the public are even more polarized that the time of the referendum is basically saying look what you've done to the people of this country what you've done you confuse them you've polarized them. that's what the result we had a referendum we thought implement that decision i think what many of us have been doing is saying we had a manifesto we went to the country here for a referendum and said here is our break that plan we will not be in the customs union we will not be in the single market we will agree we want of a new generation to do even that you are going to run you should talk to the well during this period you talk to you argued amongst yourselves but he wouldn't talk to us until we formally triggered article fifty eight it wasn't possible to greaseman before we started that two year journey to q one but it was possible to solve it with them it was possible that the other people play with you can it's not like conversation three years of factions inside the tory party arguing amongst

themselves that's what the british public was treated to and as a result only six percent of voters see parliament in a good light now did you hang your head in shame and that sort of figure yeah i mean it's a terrible for you as a six for the sense approval rating this is a really hardest decision anybody's had to tell you the most difficult negotiation no one wanted to be this drawn out you know i think that it is a. parliament reflects how divided the country is on a situation. given if you were in their home for miles you the people's representatives can't compromise and you haven't been able to compromise formers three years what are you doing in politics anyway i politics is supposed to be about compromise there's no it is the compromise most especially bass to him to principle the numbering decisions that the people take in a referendum so knowing when to leave them behind in the national interest absolutely but i asked why i think most prigs it is have accepted we have to have a twenty one month transition which effectively results in the staying in the for

me an extra two years would take us to four and a half years after the referendum most of us accepted that we should pay some sort of divorce below even though. and nothing in that situation i think most of us would accept that a trade deal would have had some restrictions on what changes we can make to our own regulations i think we would have been all manner of compromises. wait but what we couldn't compromise on was not taking back our independence and being free to control our own affairs the irony is that your group the g one of the most divisive in many people's views actually promised to look for consensus in britain didn't it in twenty seventeen your former chair so elephant and as she was then described the group as supporting the government to deliver bracks it which works for everyone there are two broken promises in that statement on the first you were so intent on supporting the government that you tried to get rid of to reason you tried to force around and. since then you have fought tooth and nail to insist that only your

breath was the real bricks so that was hardly in the interests of our whole country i don't think that's was it offered him and if you look through the history certainly since the general election and what happened in parliament you'll see that the e.r.d. most members of their lonely support of the government all the dregs approach the tried to get rid of right is unknown but they won't let me finish you the whole time i got up and until the check is policy announced last summer which fundamentally changed the ration ship the prime minister was proposing for us to have with the e.u. compared to what he promised in our manifesto a momentary one election which is the mandate on which were meant to be governing now that cause the first wave of resignations to break cities from the cabin in that situation yet again there was no challenge to to the prime minister everyone was clear we wanted to see a change in the policy not a change in the person it was only after but why did you always take it was only a you were the only people who knew what really meant the question in the referendum was should the u.k. remain a member of the european union or leave the european union that was the only question

the referendum but you since then have set yourselves up as arbiters of what the true bracks it actually is full i think one has to take their own view on what it is but if you or i think what we've been doing it is trying to actually deliver the progress that we promised people in a manifesto we had a general election on and if you can go to the country and say this is what we want you to vote for here's the vision that we have vote for us and will deliver that and then trying to have a something completely different that's not on liberal politics that's not principle politics and i think that is effectively misleading the the the people so i mean it's regrettable with the prime minister chose to change the direction of the future nation ship last summer and that's what brought most of this problem around until then she had almost complete support from the idea and it was the people who wanted to remain here because and the problems in the party why did you change your mind and vote for two reasons well there are two reasons that i mean i always say if the facts change you have to change how you very very slim so that i thought some of the issuances she got last week which were legally binding. a clear

commitment he wouldn't try and force us into something against our will that was important to me and yet many of your colleagues still cling to the view that this is a bad deal worst possible deal but i think you should be clear it's not ideal on the what is your group is very divided like every i think you're going off actually this is not a great deal people are very worried about whether i should get in here we can leave i mean at least when you're in the you can trigger article fifty and leave it's not clear you can do that from the backed up mother but there were some racial issues last week that the bastard would not enjoy the you had no intention of meeting during the winter and forced into something that we didn't want to have if that's what parliament decides in future that and the fact that was very clear by the start of the poem would never agree to a no deal drugs and there was a clear majority for an extension meant that the choice is now or not between a promise just deal improving the prime minister's deal having a no near benghazi or second referendum it's pretty clear now that the choice is leaving with a promise to deal in a few weeks time or having

a very long extension more and so the resistance is crumbling or are you just fighting like ferrets in a sack both and says reducing because you can see that mean fifty others voted for the deal last we we didn't vote for it the first time it was very thoughtful it clearly is a change in niger mills this whole process has done britain enormous damage doesn't it in the specially to the health service when the pound sank after the referendum result in excess finances were hit by a huge sums wiped off its balance sheet the collapse of the. the additional cost so far from bracks according to the british medical association and extra one hundred fifty five million pounds never admitted or factored in to your calculations was it why. country voted to leave him out of the even back in the history of the pound your exchanger in the us going up and down but why but we still have one hundred fifty five million gross at the current i don't mean national economic growth is still one of the strongest in europe i mean i don't think you can say that it's

pretty decision has destroyed our economies just from that i didn't say this is a choice the economists saying i think i was sitting down made say to the one organization that you painted as one of the great beneficiaries from breck so we haven't left yet and you haven't trees that are lesser yet and one hundred fifty five million will lead you to their costs while we spend you know we spent two hundred sixty billion plus a year on the n.h.s. i mean you can in oh so so landslides also that's all fine and the national health service was to become one of the major benefits the royal college of physicians doesn't see it that way government's lack of clarity over how the u.k. is immigration service will work they say off the bricks it could leave the n.h.s. spending up to half a billion pounds per year on international recruitment again never factored into those sunny uplands that was offered the british the bottom of the interest government have been clear on the timing of ration policy will be skills based people from all around the world are on the right skills and cost half a billion pounds of audio and international recruitment saying that's crazy this is

a royal college of physicians we are and i don't know just make it up in just by my views on various i suspect i'm going to tell you what i mean there's no you just got these figures from c. i had to then i mean do i think coming to work in h.s. will be hugely attractive people from around the world behind me we already have a lot of employment in the n.h.s. from countries outside and inside i don't think you need to spend half a billion up to three in the year following the referendum in the year following the referendum almost ten thousand european health care professionals quit the n.h.s. . by november twenty seventh in the number of e.u. nurses registering in the u.k. was down ninety percent fabulous result. doesn't this and you remember the time it was very clear other explanations for why put up some of that was a procedural issue at the time of the name for example but you know i think we when we have a clear immigration policy based on skills if you have people who we need to come he will be able to come here and work and we welcome them it's clear that n.h.s. and catheters will still need lots of immigrant labor i mean it's if there's no way

we can train the people in a short period to to feel like their problem is also in our universities cording to the royal society and i don't think anyone is suggesting that they peddle fake news the u.k. could lose access to over a billion pounds a year e.u. research funding even with the government government's guarantees u.k. based research is small or medium sized enterprises will lose will lose access it says the half a billion in research funding having an immediate impact on research underway in the u.k. a price worth paying feel because the government have been clear that we want to have continued be such cooperation with the not offering i would think net contributions are very was the result is another reason why we can't offer the amount of money that we need we need to do to a place that the royal society says it could take years to develop alternatives to the e.u. funding meaning that valuable research could be stopped. why don't you except that in the in the spirit in which it's given that i do it when i was twenty i would all i would happily have this country the research effort is going to were damaged

severely damaged i would happily there's no is anybody here in benghazi who voted to end research cooperation with the european countries with law of unintended consequence is just i'm not for that but there's no surely more realize that this was going to be of no reason why we don't think we want you we want to research corporation much wider than twenty eight countries don't we so there's no reason why he should refuse to have us cooperate with them isn't it time that there was another general election here in the country needs to hold you to account doesn't it for the for the broken promises and the way that the whole e.u. negotiation is being conducted we had an election not that long ago people weren't too keen on to to have to have that one i'm not sure what to let. in the one in which you lost your majority in the one in which we got the largest share of the vote that my party howard dean twenty something out those years ago lost a majority so was the great result was it wasn't a great result no but i think you can see when your vote share goes up from thirty six to forty four percent of the people were labour's welcome to an endorsement and they promised to deliver break that as well i'm not sure what

a general election would change i mean what proposals would be for main parties be standing on what would people who then went to vote think they were going to achieve by the person they're voting for and it doesn't look clear from the opinion polls you wouldn't get a very similar component when you really go i think we need to fix it in this parliament in the obvious fix now is to vote the prime minister's deal through and read on to the next stage of these talks and you can do that can you. well i think we can i think people will i mean if we've been strong and stable we're talking about the last elections strong and stable was what the prime minister promised in their election campaign we've seen anything but strong and stations thought we've seen weak vacillating we've seen divisions we've seen we saw at election time on the basis that he needed a strong majority to deliver on something at a few of his brags in public didn't give us that strong majority there's a growing view that your party is because of the disagreements and the tensions over europe which go back decades in your party that it's

a luxury that this country can no longer afford i have recognized those words from in the issue of europe has divided the country not just warm party ever since we joined and before that. but the people decided they wanted to leave and we should deliver that if you look at the opinion polls my party is still enjoying healthy lead in most of the opinion polls i don't think you can say we've become some people don't want any more. whatever happens with bracks it's going to take years to find out the true impact of it isn't that i mean most economists who look to the post bracks it future didn't have much good to say about it you in your group you pinned your hopes understandably on one academic who did a man called patrick oppman for cardiff university this is a man who recommended the heart breaks it and abolition of all tariffs which could do enormous damage the agricultural industry in this country but he was your main linchpin wasn't he he wasn't my main internet or mine i think we are economic

future will be best served by having a good comprehensive trade arrangement with the only tariffs on a so it is just what you have to look into before brics and looking to expand our sales around the world we're pretty pretty shocking exporting outside the e.u. that all the growth in future will come from outside having having better training later she has her outside will be positive for the country and i think if we can get a sensible trade to go along with this is the group that you do sixty percent of your trade with us not where sixty. center exports guy was in his office sixty below sixty two there was a ghost and this is where we have a sixty percent where we have the right look at that there is no your close i don't trading part of the any largest trading block in the world and i think any sensible person wants us not to have a good preparation with the the constitutional chaos that we've seen a company the whole debate in this country should worry everyone shouldn't it labor pierced you it would says the whole process has shown the britons unwritten constitution is basically broken do you agree with. yeah i think if it isn't as

difficult as this without a majority in parliament and with subtly too many public problems to it but to me parliament ariens not wanting to respect the will of the people in a referendum on the light on your side well i think i think it's i think you have to say it's been mainly people who didn't who do not accept the result who have been trying to frustrate this process that has brought us. to this position yet but we've seen contempt for parliamentary procedure from the government itself this is may's government is the first to be found in contempt of parliament for initially refusing to publish its legal opinion on bricks that no government has ever published legal advice and i it was the writing of the contempt of parliament for those very good reasons why you don't generally publish legal advice it means you don't need me you can't take the advice of the minister been a pretty unique situation when the two main parties got eighty three percent of the vote in the election promising to respect the result of the referendum and here we are still with large numbers of people who will not accept the people voted to leave the turn of the street in any way they can you know by transparent various or

by frustration through the process and i think many people in the country are absolutely furious that poland has an aim to actually deliver and leaving within where is nearly three years since the referendum in our face in making that nearly family later you and your colleagues i think the public trial is going to be very difficult it was a boy isn't it that they want to blame people who just will not accept the result will not accept any kind of deal for us to leave us who they need to blame well in that. people from the european places well i. say we had a manifesto we went but i don't die hards who are unlike you are still refusing to buy into the reason most people are in a state. people who have to stick up for them but i would say the choice now is to leave with this deal or to restore it leaving it all i think we should only have these people your principles more important trust well i think if a vote how the national interest there's clearly been to get a consensus to stand before the us this is our great position this is something in

three years that britain has been unable to way we should have achieved our consensus was to have a general election and then have the winning parties manifesto be that consensus and accept that's the thing that has a mandate from the public that's what some people in parliament including sadly some in the cabinet have not accepted that mandate that plan that we set out to the country the common people in behind closed doors in smoky room to try and change that manifesto plan and that's that's the what the public gave us the mandate to go and deliver britain is going to merge from this process more damaged more divided nation that it has been in modern times plus think how do you how do how do you mitigate that you're defined as not unite us aren't you i think the way we are working in this country been for them this issue for a long time we gave back to the public with the final decision should we stay or should we leave the only way we can know at the country is to is to move on leave and then get on to on the governing the country on the issues that they care about

and making a success of the vision people take and i don't think you can unite a country could still we are where we're arguing about is that scenario and decision was made it should be implemented that's what parliament should be doing if you get into to back to the people you have to implement what they decide and the question the question is how and you're still not agreed on that. well we have one deal on the table that gets us out of the in the next few weeks i think that is the is the best way forward i don't think anybody really wants another couple of years where we can stay in the you are now argue about this and try and work something out to me even then if you won't change their mind on the gay shooting a future partnership while still in we'll have two more years of arguing about how we get out and then we'll have to start in the future party that's not a healthy situation i think this needs to be resolved quickly now i hope in the summit that we have. at the end of this week perhaps in a couple of clarifications and concessions can be made and that can be enough to get this deal over the line and we can get on with approving and ratifying larger

moves be good to have you called thanks for thank you. thank.

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