if you know what. the seventy seven percent is. this is. the seventy seven percent start april sixth d.w.i. . the trial of cattle and separatist leaders over their failed independence has laid bare some stark divisions in spanish society not least over the justice system my guest this week here in madrid is spain's foreign minister burrell how does he answer the charge that the trials are fundamentally unfair.

welcome to conflict. last year a lady called come a fall was the president of the catalan parliament she was arrested charged with a rebellion when she was interviewed last december she was spending fifteen hours a day in her cell in solitary confinement is this really the image of spain that you want to show the rest of the world. judiciary decision. to hold. people under control or another to avoid them to escape from the justice like others a grandmother. in a prison convicted of nothing by those enjoying joys the presumption of innocence before her. everybody who prevented jail enjoys the presumption of innocence instead of thirty percent of the people who are in jail preventive

detention it's hard not to see her incarceration as the action of a vindictive state setting out to punish defendants they should. be enjoying this presumption of innocence and what a president of a. jail there's nothing to vote with your on record saying that you wish some of those pretrial detention were free. exactly that they would have. the judge could have found another way of preventing them from escaping the action of justice you said there were other methods that could have been used you said there were other methods that could have been used here so this was unfair treatment. in your view though. you'd have preferred to see them out of pretrial and we are. both in the main me say things that they haven't said.

honestly international calling to the use of pretrial detention is justified only when there is no alternative measure which would insure the interests of justice you have said there are alternative measures so it is unfair well look the judge has decided. these measures because he things it has to move so i am not going to. decide in the plate of judges in spain judges are in that band and they take their decision by the home. and if maybe mr put him on how the miss cape maybe they should could take another kind of measures do you know that with them on and on the us has been escaping justice but you know that there are very few people who don't know that a little bit and them explain that but it's not your role you tell me the courts are independent but it's not your role to turn a blind eye to serious questions and doubts about the way your judicial system is

functioning isn't it because you came to power your government came to power promising to transform. space my point to you is keeping people in lockdown in solitary confinement for fifteen hours a day. solitary confinement fifteen hours a day sixty three year old grandmother convicted of nothing. excuse me. of nothing do you know about the conviction on this case i start thinking that you don't anything about it she hasn't been convicted of anything as she's been charged but she has no charge convicted well let's. stop it we're going to stop this interview and this i mean if you continue with these are you stop it. you are not me going to be ringing me. so you were

in me trying to police no i'm not a subject of any kind of inquiry or from your side i understand that the right questions and let me talk if not you stop it absolutely ok i just. look. you came to power to modernize and. last year the e.u. scorecard which measured public trust in the independence of national courts and judges put spain in twenty third place on the list of member countries below portugal hungry and romania how do you feel about that. ranking among the twenty best democracies in the world. with. no. need of. the economist.

i think is being classified. as a being. but the truth is when it comes to the charges of rebellion against the catalan defendants there has been a substantial outcry both here and abroad present that last november more than one hundred legal experts in spain signed an open letter condemning the charge of rebellion in the council didn't move you whether you led the judges made their work i'm asking your opinion. in spain. how do you think that the decision of the german court which refused to extradite the former catalan leader. on the charge of rebellion how do you think that affected the credibility of the case against him because the german court said the

amount of violence required for the charge of treason which is the closest they have to rebellion was not seen. in breach of the public peace they said does not apply because the mark was only involved in carrying out the independence. of the german judge. and it's a blow to your case. which at the time. of the joining the course was the court was basically saying that your central charge against the catalan defendants doesn't hold up. this is. i don't know how. the situation in spain but who has to judge it in spain score. any suggestions here in spain not going to get a fair trial the professor of constitutional law at civilian. royo said i would like to be wrong but the way in which the october first case has

proceeded so far inevitably points to a guilty verdict the trial will be a farce even though they will abide by all the legal procedures while it's been held the verdict has already been written it's a chilling accusation him. just that. just that when you learn agree with the association of judges for democracy about the appointment of some of the leading figures in this case. very much bias. look for the people who criticises the judges i can tell you know other people who has. there may well be other views but there's been a damaging criticism has moved into the third time how your man showing you this same hands in spain judiciary is independent power let them do their work. the man accused you of contributing to the increase in hate he said

when you were appointed foreign minister is this the gesture they have in mind in order to send us a message of fraternal deescalation the fact that you have been you a catalan have been dead set against catalonia independence was he right was this a message of fraternal deescalation. can you tell me why mr bush is saying these kind of things i can't i go read his mind i am asking with the asking whether you agree with it not or should not why should i try to defend myself from them because they should when mr put them on if you are unable to say. their. if you how do you have like this thing of the year while you are talking about do you want to deescalate the situation have been discredited the situation there's a government has been making would be careful to know that the discovery of this

situation implementing the old kind of measures in order to make things go into normal again but we cannot give to the people good way to go to the communication as they are asking for because it is against the biggest question to show that this has nothing to do with international law why not have a debate about the constitution and constitutional. could have touched on those provisions which outlaw independence was a polish reagents they could have done it they put up or gone for the spanish barlow and imprisoned. because to do sure but the basque bit they haven't done it why didn't you do it do you are you not interested in reforming the constitution who is asking for it seventy percent those manuals warlords little usual reform according according to the center for sociological research so while there so it.

could be merely lying. the center for sociological research has said word seventy percent of spaniards want constitutional reform of some calm hour some while you can have some god as dr greg is public record why finish what donald finish i don't want to do that anymore. minister in november the human rights commission of the council of europe wrote to the senate and the congress of deputies pressing for serious amendments to the so-called law on citizens' safety i know that your government promised meaningful changes to this law. but you haven't delivered them. i've been visiting this.

consul and he was in not complaining at all and he said that this pain is usually first consider returning then one performing a calling with human rights law. so there was no criticism at all you didn't read the letter that was sent there you had an interview with that they went through with them and. i don't think there is a criticism about the functioning of the spanish you be sure but you didn't you didn't change the law did you you promised meaningful changes to it and you haven't i don't know exactly what you were talking about the general terms their consideration that the concert will make this pain the system are very good what the commissioner wrote was in his letter i find it disturbing that according to the minister of interior twenty seven thousand alone more than twenty one thousand sanctions have been imposed on the grounds of lack of respect or consideration for

police officers and the articles that can easily be interpreted he said in an arbitrary manner and thus have a chilling effect on freedom of expression well you have a bias approach to this you to a shooting in spain what they can tell you is the just my gretsch court has had much unless cases with respect to spain to many other countries. the court of superior court of human rights decided that a number of basque separatists didn't get a fair trial. you can follow and that doesn't help the argument does it no doesn't have my argument for a beautiful. but it can't repeat the ones that the statistics show that this pain has much less much much less ok she's in front of the court of human rights than many other european countries like france belgium germany and others

but you don't want. are you not concerned about this public safety or you wanted to change it do you find it satisfactory that so many people were sanctioned for disrespecting the police i am not aware of what do you know that they can't refer to it is the distinction in general terms and position that the spain has on my right let's talk about arms sales in september last year you announced you had halted the sale of laser guided bombs to saudi arabia with concerns over the use of such weapons in the war in iraq and just days later you changed your mind and said the contract had to be on the. dish contradict the more contract was higher it seems that it hasn't been anymore sell arms. to saudi arabia but you continue to sell arms not since these are covered with this you know thieves they have been

selling more arms you said you had changed your mind and said this particular contract had to be on this particular contract had to be already was signed with the previous government and. the spanish socialist government believed that these trivia yet and we heard that if you are but these. munitions of this kind have been used against hospitals hotels the water whirls residential buildings factories and last year in a school bus attack so the question of collateral damage when they've been in that civilian targets doesn't really apply does what they say that everybody who has a meeting mean diligence that you can understand is that the precision. created less could have done all damages that that would just throw random it up if it's aimed at civilian targets anyway that's just a lack of demagoguing with please either way. you have to prove that they have been

used for that well if you read what human rights watch has said last year as of november last year six thousand eight hundred and seventy two civilians had been killed and more than ten thousand wounded by saudi arabia led coalition airstrikes since twenty fifteen. they have documented about ninety apparently coalition air strikes which have hit homes markets hospitals schools and mosques and these are the people you decided to honor the contract with in there is not at all a problem but you are saying that there was caused by a discovery of arms. they were bombed coalition coalition airstrikes but the bombs some bombs were trying to explain you know the only thing you have to say and it's something that if you have it will be honest approach to the problem and you will and this. that a precision bomb creates less had to hold them that they're random but as

a former president of the european parliament i'm sure you noted the criticism such arms of attracted in that forum last november i mean please heavily criticize the way member states have greenlighted most films exports to saudi arabia despite the fact that those exports violated six out of eight criteria and thus undermine the entire european arms control effort the spores vollmer that the space has been going. doesn't fulfill completely all legal required and amnesty international said your own export more prohibits arms transfer when there is reasonable suspicion they could be used in human rights violations and we have a committee that control of this port of our limbs and to make sure that when we support our arms and we don't buy your made any old. and you are confident despite

the criticism from human rights groups despite what the e.u. parliament has been saying about the need to stop these arms exports to saudi arabia that you haven't violated the criteria they told you for at least two or three times but you continue asking the same question that since this government is in office they haven't responded arms so no more no more laser guided bombs to saudi arabia at least it was a contract that has to be hurried it was signed by the previews government and since then he has been another one religion to the time i am asked the same question minister and the time we have left i'd like to look at developments concerning gibraltar. your government has made it clear that you intend to use the brics it process to reopen the question of shared sovereignty over gibraltar despite the fact that both britain and gibraltar have signalled that that issue is

not open for debate why do you bother by the world to open the question of shared sovereignty who says that your prime minister did in november he said that the issue of shared sovereignty would be back on the table of the prime minister sunsets for sure could some detail of it down for you but it's not for them not for gibraltar not for britain for sure and what. so what so what why do you think this time you can put it back on the to do you think it's you can use the leverage the leverage of bracks at negotiations to put pressure on britain and. battling for you while really you don't know anything about what you are talking about my god what do you want done don't know do you do not and you don't welcome anything you were talking we had been saying very clearly that we were not. to you

as the dogs of the brac say the point of the table the question was for braintree how you are a liar or are just not well informed and you didn't hear your prime minister say in november that the issue of sovereignty would be back on the table it would be about going to table but not do the integrated negotiations how being around you are incredible what about through the trade negotiations if there is to be a free trade agreement between britain and spraying what then will the game put pressure on gibraltar either you say to scale things i am going to surprise the public to come from. this invite this is the deal what you are talking about of. and you say that you will you say that and you say that the shoe is on the table first of all you said the government had hadn't said anything about putting that on the table then you admit that prime minister did say that can i explain please please have an answer to your continues question please can you give

me the opportunity please. we have said very clearly that we had not going to the questions of rain on the table on the framework of breaks in negotiations and we haven't done it which doesn't mean that we forget about the question was to for that will we reach five agreement with the government of what you brought up with all gritty and in the future we also agreed with you to be a commission that any agreement with united in the little perspective gibraltar you have to be on the control of the spaniel government that's all nothing more than that for sure we hear the questions of rain but it hasn't been called on that day when who just took the lead to negotiation you should know of outdated and not good questions on the fourth wave. on this on february the eighteenth released one of

your warships into the water and tried to order out commercial vehicle that were tied up there what was the point of that action because you spoke with them for the ships to stop they can pass that they can not stop now these were gibraltar waters british gibraltar waters which you don't recognize we do not require job growth. because according with you which treaty. will lead to land on their waters we are acting accordingly with international or. creating the ships can pass by they can not stop. one of your most experienced diplomats who headed your mission and the law of the sea matters. has said publicly that there's no legal basis for claiming that gibraltar has no territorial waters

it is not the point of view of the spanish government. it's if you have a disagreement and you do have this disagreement over gibraltar waters why not settle it through the disputes procedure of the law on the sea conflicts when we talk so as far back as nine hundred sixty nine that very night that you put the question it would be much better if your lead the interviewer to answer the. crease could university cutting my answers please answer the question i for you know for the spanish government the ships can pass by but they cannot be stopping to water that we can see that they don't belong but this gibraltar is for a very bad one a circle that issue my dialogue will not settle national where that why not settle it. i understand you don't answer my question is the question that as

many as your one piece my answer what are you afraid of the dialogue taking it to international arbitration to the international court of justice they could decide this matter of a court of justice is not competent for this kind of question and the u.n. law of the sea they are competent but you won't take it to them either you want to put me in the bank of guilty people or i'm just asking why not you're very funny. you're really funny. you've just reached a tax agreement with britain over gibraltar so dialogue can get some results can't . unload with gibraltar who i said was written i said with britain written about europe yes better get away to women got something wrong with it you were concerned about tax fraud in gibraltar is that right why not do more to prevent things like fraud and bribery and money laundering anyway can can spain do more and he

went. to more. transparency international says that key european countries are failing to enforce the oh you see these and bribery convention which is one of the main instruments for fighting global corruption which is the question. and spain is one of those which isn't working and spain is one of them so currently showing according to transparency international little or no inforced why is that we do as much as we can. but you could do more sure goto could do better you've interviewed. mr good to have you accomplished so thank you thank you for your but next time. if you're called for questions and i'll answer by years away. i'm not here just to give you the questions you want was so.

thank. you. thank.

you. stuck in traffic for hours spoiled cargo she says. that could be trucker eric hearings the reality after her exit. focus on europe takes a road trip from brussels to britain. chaos at the border go by go. breaks it turn into a nightmare. in thirty minutes w. .

what's the connection between bread flour and the european union dinos guild not a w correspondent and avid baker can stretch this combined with the rules set by the. cots. swapping recipes for success strategy that make a difference. baking bread on d.w. . the city in ruins morrow a. symbol of a long conflict in the philippines. between the muslims and the christian population. last glance fighters occupied the city center

no seventeen president to tears his response was told. by the terrorists will never again football game of. the reconquest turned into tragedy. is not the kind of freedom that we want. how did it become a gateway to islam this terror until now they say sorry guys are no more sitting as the sole and exclusive reports from a destroyed city. philippines. starts april eleventh g.w. . plane . the boy.

the boy . this is the news coming to you live from london post disappearances of dissidents in china. it feels like different locked up in hell. you're completely cut off from the world talking and you don't know anything and you're terrified. spawning meets a human rights lawyer held in china a secret detention system. also coming up migrants hijack a ship on the high seas but ends in handcuffs.