colorful ones of course. well i couldn't agree more we need more color in our architecture that's it thanks for watching. but they're preparing for the durban fall hard full swing and we are standing near to the end of the last minute session of this particular european parliament because we'll have a new one coming made and the result of that election is going to be closely monitored in africa this is a continent after all a chance and years of a complex relationship with europe and new elections why they matter to africa next d.w. . example elaine has no education her husband drinks. her son takes drugs. there seems to be no way out. then she dares to make

a change and take control of her money. a growing thing a story of south africa. in the sixty minutes long t.w. . letter we were. when we were. eighty percent of americans at some point in our lives will experience hardship listen hot. dog. buns. well the campaigns the different campaigns for the european elections are in full swing and we are here at the last plenary session of this particular european parliament because there will be a new one coming and that is being noticed outside of the european union as well that's why we will discuss today you were lections why they matter to africa and that's an outcome of those elections that will be closely monitored in africa this

is a continent that has after all shared a long and complex relationship with europe so stick with us and our guest we have a great panel here to my right over there. who's a member of the basically social democratic faction in the european parliament by the way all experts here on the panel and he says it is time to rebuild a new partnership between the e.u. and africa turning the pages of the past and to my left we're joined by venue angry she is the managing director of german african s m e alliance that connects mall and medium enterprises in germany and africa and she says that it's time for the s.m. used to enter the african market for long term investment and on an eye level. over to my left a member of the biggest party of the european parliament the conservative e.p.a. likely to remain the biggest party also in the european parliament and he says

africa needs europe to set clear political priorities to face common challenges to the benefit of both and last but not joined by dr. he is that the rector general for the small and medium enterprises agency of nigeria and he says that the e.u. should do more on good governance in africa by stopping corrupt money getting to europe from africa he also adds that we should treat africa as equal partners in trade so you can tell we have a lot of different experts here also on small to medium enterprises and there's a reason for that because of course one of the main topics between africa and the european union is trade and there are different reasons they go way back why this is complicated we tried to break it down for you. fast and as this continent has been to some one point three billion people africa

has massive potential. coffee cotton and vice natural resources africa has a lot of. it has the world's youngest population africa's potential seems found this. because. it's because of its biggest trading its biggest provider of. good africa's economy is still on the debit side of life and how much does this have to do with europe. free trade is the centerpiece of e.u. policy africa gets access to the european market but needs to open its markets for european products and often can't compete officially the e.u. now advocates an equal partnership. it has been customary for too long for europeans to lecture africans. so that. african leaders don't want charity they want results if you change jobs. africa

should be able to transform these raw materials and to provide labor for youth decision. free trade is the e.u. robbing africa future. and that's a question where we're going to pick up and i want to throw that question to you dr we've heard that africa has massive potential but you're robbing africa of its free trade you know we have to look at the menu is first of all we know the fork but he has been very strong part to not to africa and this has. been the colonial time and we need to dip in that kind of relationship but i think it did more harm or more good no i think we need to do it in agreement so that africa. be able to benefit from it what i'm saying in essence is africa is an export largely oil and gas to europe but we import primarily goods the primary goods to

produce in africa from a really good should be produce an africa companies european companies has to establish an africa to utilize the real materials available in africa so that there will be creation of jobs for our team in youth and there will be also equal opportunity in terms of the economy blog men and prosperity of our people in africa ms reno why doesn't the you do that i mean we hear a lot that the you wants to do this but if you look at the legislation it always seems to favor european companies exactly because you are a piece working for europe and they don't care about something else than europe so it's necessary to have with us african people african civil society african elected people. make making advocacy for having more for africa and you feel like you're doing enough in that sense i think it's not enough for the moment because we are dealing with past european partnership agreements from the past and from the past

is just guaranteeing that europe is having room and cheers and europe is entering the markets of africa and i think this is a mistake we have to have a win win situation and african people needs to have development with trade agreements and this is what we have to discuss with african people for the new new partnership and not only economic partnership but new partnership with africa so we have a new difficult that this is happening you know mary's saying that the old model is outdated do we have something new and is it working i mean the question of the fairness of the free trade agreement is very central very important and when we consider the evolution of. if it was agreement and now i can say that we are in a good way actually with also that as was mentioned because i think that there were

two central principles which are very important first of all this was a process because it enabled it would be it will enable. country also to export their goods without any thing in you taste and also. it is something that large and second one it is this question of sustainability because if used think about defeated agreement of the new it would be the twenty twenty and if you have something sustainable and don't have a limit it also can promote investment and can say ok i will think in the long term investment and it could also bring some investment it is at the end of what it would want to have more investment that creates more jobs within the well the european commission is certainly thinking about sustainability saying that the focus between relations is shifting towards knowledge sharing and

responsible investment can you give me examples where you feel this is working so yes i mean the know how transparent is a very key futurist and for instance i'm here representing. our association and we also speak a lot we have our members and it's to me is and the question though training and the know how to transfer is the key. the key things that they want to give investment to african countries to put it over to mr girl you've been to many african countries you know because you know from a european perspective when we hear all this it also. so little complicated but it isn't the case that most people on the ground. in the african countries you consider don't really experience all that well first of all i think if you look at the point of departure trade wise we have these existing schemes it's the economic

partnership agreement and the everything but arms initiative for thirty two of the least developed countries which of a duty and quarter free access to a market that is a new the one side i think indeed we must shift towards. a new approach and that would tell in my mind to combine the efforts to have good governance in given countries and to be really for those on the education side in order to provide the work force that is actually needed in africa for the future and then also come with credits both for african entrepreneurs and ours who dare shall i say to invest in africa who have got the experience yet and in this regard i think such initiatives. as amy's if we can combine that first the education and vocational training and then incoming investment then can contribute to added value that the

cocoa is not exported people become structured in africa the coffee beans become roasted coffee in africa and the cotton becomes textiles in africa to add value and then give market access to us i think that is the proper way that we should be heading for i think. i think it is really important to realize one part because as much as as long as you just have lish and european company in africa a lot of people would learn that canola g m both a lot of people experience from the people who came from europe but we've been hearing this we've been hearing noises for decades now and it's working in some countries so what needs to change i don't think it's not working it's like not being made because this thing is being more the toric than. actually because most of the tunes that i've been talking about on this part tonight she is something that has helped me out of a tory thing because the instead of being keep good they keep on c. and c.

in these things but that is no practical thing on groan all right mr garnet must recognize the fact that you rojas a really have africa in area of. civil wrote good governance and african countries are doing very well in the area of good governance accountability as well as to see that democracy is no assistance other locals will get to that will get to that in a second i just want to have a look at what steve jobs rather emanuel mccraw the president of france said on this issue he says in a tweet steve jobs father was a syrian refugee it would seem that nationality has nothing to do with the ability to succeed if you think that being and i jerry and means you can succeed then you want if you fight and you do succeed you will be a role model so i want to come to you actually marry because you're really shaking your head you're not believing what the president is saying no because it's not only a question of will i think that sometimes some companies are destroying the will of

people in african country if i take for example in nigeria you know the most important part of the oil in nigeria is just exported in europe to be treated in europe and really sent to africa and there is no agreement to prevent deciduous and for example what we asked for and this indeed is to have to sing is the trade agreements the first thing is to have an symmetrix situation with country like nigeria and to give them to opportunity to have quotas to to keep some room and to be sure that this raw materials are preceded in the contrary this is the first thing the second thing that we have to ask for is to have jus diligence coming from big companies in this country because it is not because you are big companies in this country that you are respecting people or climate so we have to have this due diligence system in this car for these companies many to national when they are

countries so we have to control them as mr gather due diligence sounds very bureaucratic or you. board well i would say from our side as far as our companies and our international companies are concerned we should really put appropriate pressure on them to behave not only to the standards that we have in our countries but also to say the laws that exist in the country and action and if we're having and we have should be finding it not to if you find not to give them incentive it should be binding if you have if we have a situation that. some of our companies still think that they can buy. their permits or that they can bribe officials that is we have to overcome name and shame and make it transparent in this regard there are initiatives that i publish what you pay or extractive industries transparency initiatives that should contribute to

a transparent way of of doing business in africa and i think all right i'm sorry mr geller let me get to one of the hearings due diligence the european court many are talking about i totally disagree because most of the european leaders most of the news european companies that are in africa most of the corrupt african leaders are twenty mutal from these companies and this is how because we can just understand because most of the money that is being stolen from africa by our leader has been stashed in europe and the european companies are responsible for this and i don't think there is any due diligence you are talking about the most important thing that we need to do in africa is to dip into this relationship is there should be an open agreement and disagreement between africa and europe on certain aspect that leads to our blog talked about that there are certain partnerships and agreements which are on the table awaiting signatures from certain countries so it

seems that africa has the opportunities but simply is not taking no africa doesn't have that opportunity because those agreement about. it came about this agreement that we put on people but most of the in the reality conditions on new utopian contras put their programs of. africa we are not. put unity we are not equal partners here from africa what we are asking is simply that whatever you are going to do we should have mutual agreement that should be a strategic plan for the blog meant taking into consideration of people taking into consideration though because. these are not normal i disagree i was going to come to you isn't it normal that the european union puts its interests first and it's up to the africans to organize their interests to for example create a single market so you are talking about fairness and we are also talking about win

win situation it means that both of the parties have to to gain something at the end so i will i will come back maybe to that because i mention it. one of the part of the benefits of this agreement is also you cannot make a partnership agreement. between the u.s. and countries and countries is also this is promotion of the shared values it means that to have standards tenders two to have a good governance to work together so that we have to unite for sure it is a love to do and not only all countries. know that nigeria for instance is not. the same it. was no but kenya was can i just also a good example of that said that implemented so they are some knows but now we have to also get specific a specific italy to see why for instance nigeria is not the other. thing is

because so little dealing. who is double dealing with the euro because there should be that and that is what is largely creating mistrust if you are going to do this africa. but africa happened to accept an african agenda on an african free trade area and also to adapt our as our regional agreements to do what you planned because i think it's we have profited the europeans amongst hours trading amongst ourselves that is has made us strong and wealthy and i would wish that this african agenda to have a free trade area into africa that that is being supported from our side and one more thing or it by if they want know if they if africa wants to protect itself from us they could already prior to having their own integration they could erase set up pan african customs tariff that applies in all of africa

european and american or imports that would protect africa efficiently and we could not work one against the other if that if they were in agreement with themselves in this regard for the. unhappy no in fact in the eco us region for example they are working on the internal market for this region and what europe did is because of nigeria blocking and why nigeria is blocking this pass is just because they said they want to protect infant industry and it's normal it is the way to have industry in your country is for moment to protect them and after to open your country and we are gearing is asking for this and europe say no and what europe did is just going to ghana and going to walk and saying if nigeria say no we are dealing with you separately and so we are destroying the internal internal market of africa and if

you see for example with all the remains that we have to. in africa and europe for a long time ago we don't have this increasing of xchange between africa and europe so what do you expect what do you want the next european parliament concretely to do in that respect what is important is really not to be it to create on this and to support the internal markets of africa because i think is for us it means it's more important to have this into an internal market to have the market with europe and second thing is to have a past that respects what african countries are asking for for their development for people living in africa not for multinational that are coming from europe being in africa that is all step by step implemented as a long time scale there are transitional times and they must be an effort also also to integrate amongst themselves africa must tear down its internal borders simply

to become a trader and in in vestment and in creating jobs that are out there is this easier said than done i mean you did say that europe is double dealing dealing with alcoa separately and you want them to deal with an. area which really it is not being given because we recruit them over for africa and europe are not. because africa has appropriation of about one for them to be neutral possible palatial about five hundred million i know you look at our g.d.p. g.d.p. will have been ten trillion dollars africa you find it g.d.p. of less than three trillion and now that you're talking about right i'll meet you that's all you know what unity excuse me let's give was more opportunity when it comes to even broader look at it the opportunity european one has to go to africa is quite higher than the opportunity and africa has to come to europe because when

you go to the embassies you see the kind of. treatment the european embassies were given to africa we'll get to my question in just a second i want to challenge all of us and i'd like you said about. adams and i want to jump in africa question you talked about figures and the e.u. being able to trade it huge quantities but the e.u. is also trading with each other interest in you trade is that seventy percent and intra africa trade is at sixteen percent we're not trading with each other so the question is why do we expect trade with the e.u. to be better if we can't handle it ourselves you know you have to understand one simple thing we trade in order for us to gain and we gain more when we trade from this perspective but the most important thing for us to understand even for europe to understand that is an effect. the property level in africa has the effect on europe because of the proximity the close us point broke the timidity in terms of geo political area only miles between europe and africa so the

question if that is problem in that is probably the one that if that is a problem in somalia that is embodied a problem in europe so what we are trying to do is give was equal opportunity to give was understood or interest and so that our prosperity has. effect that you are preventing you from cooperating closer with each other if you have them soon in africa we are not preventing that but if there are happy to support because we've got experience in this regard gratian regional integration in africa and finally continental free trade area ok that is the objective and i want to now look at the impact of some of these interconnections that dr roger was talking about free movement of persons you've heard him say here that it can be humiliating sometimes for an african to try and gain access to europe even when they're doing it regularly but what happens when it's irregular the issue of migration has been

a hot button issue for both africa and europe and here's why. migration one of the toughest challenges facing. the issue of refugee resettlement d p divines the european union. failed to rein in political infighting among its members it's impossible to let everybody across borders not in a way which is clearly clarified. the e.u. continues to depend on deals with countries like turkey because it has not come up with a solution for sharing. that is one of the reasons behind europe's new top priority helping africa to get on its feet in order to curb the flow of migrants. develop by day and oblige african leaders to deal with its citizens in a way that african youth has a chance. to love this means both public investment and private

investment. your consequent ticket to being. migration issue continues to give rise to right wing and anti european populist movements. feel that finally the e.u. will get back to the friends quarters and the right for security of its european citizens. union and africa remain on depression how can they shape the common future. isn't a migration crisis the best thing that could have happened to africa in the last year is because it put it on the map in european discussions with europeans have to do something first of all for all people concerned in this migration it's a tragedy because everybody in principle wants to stay at home and have a good living there so the fact that people are leaving out of desperation mostly

not out of bed terrorism or even volunteer talking about political. well you've never really talked about africa before the migration crisis in this well that's well i wouldn't go so far but i think indeed we have to do you in a different way and it's good that we do not limit our discussions on this migration issue which is an important one but that we see it in the long term perspective and that we discuss about the issues like the economy that we have in the previous panel but i think we could as europeans as you my responsibility of course in addressing it in a way that of course we cannot take every person that is in need into europe but we should categorize we should see who is personally persecuted as a political asylum seeker who is under the geneva conventions as of war refugee and who comes for a few lee economic reasons and in this field i think we have to open

a slight door for legal migration in order to focus the people on the legal opportunities and the long as we seem to think we need more than just a slight door opening for sure so for your question was also. if this gratian also opened the door and said that now it should be in the engine and for sure as you said mrs merkel is not that only tale to tell since fifteen the question of africa is now but i can say that now we are moving from this policy of development aid to something else we have promoting with private sector and. doing searching over ways to solve this problem and now i can really say that. you are the agent of the. german government the private sector. it is really on the agenda it is like

a way to put also. opportunities or to create of a generator in africa to deal with immigration because as he said nobody wants to go to to go to europe because it's fine so i want to come to surrender because we're talking about policies that started in twenty fifteen but we too long to start having conversely this conversation between europe and africa i think that we have to have to wear that we need as european more africa that africa needs europe and this is really important because the only thing that we see is just seeing this poor people living africa coming to europe but you know. the most important mobility in africa is in africa within africa and it's when different countries in africa and we are just dnd of the process but this is the most important mobility situation is in africa and if we are not aware of the fact that we need africa and

we spoke about. but also martin that we are just in the wrong we are of thinking africa and so for me it's important to have two things the first is there a legal way for mobility i don't know where you're going with mr gallagher i don't speak about migration because you know when you have young students coming from africa coming in europe to university what they want to do is to go back to africa and to make businesses and to have example health care and we're talking about it we're talking about regular migration those who are coming here from pressure economic or otherwise first thing is the mobility and i think that europe was an open europe and for the moment we are close you are we don't want to have foreigners in europe this is the first thing and we have to reopen europe for african people not only for students but also for some work. yours and this

relationship with africa the second thing is humanitarian situation and we as you are but all the continent we left humanitarian citizen asking for protection and this is the way we have to do to put in a hand to these people and to say you are coming out i don't agree and this is something else but we don't have to mixed this to situation we have to make on humanitarian help. sort of human rights that are the right wing populist seem to mix i mean the engine is very important and before we come over to you mr god dr radha are you following. the run up to the european elections where a lot of right wing populist that are making their living off of the topic of migration are poised to make significant gains and what do you think about that i think before we get to that we have to understand before that. africans migrate

into europe. because we have an economic situation in africa that needs to be addressed by our leaders we talked about that is the stance of women see as dr let me that's very important to me let tell me how you feel about the possibility of people of parties gaining significant votes in the european elections because they almost exclusively campaigned on the topic of migration yet because. in that it's affecting europe because that is a new trend all over the wall of nationalization kountry is becoming more national contras becoming more solve recognize do incidents on their own ways and that is why you see that british ones who go out of europe you see a lot of other countless wanting to be annoyed that that has manifested also it being there not just that you can see the national spring going off in

africa you see a lot of elections have taken place and the government position opposition parties were taken obama governments because people need a new lease of life people need a new life new government new people have hope and they are looking for where those hoops will come for and this is the kind of sins we are looking for from europe and it is very important for the relationship between africa and europe but the most important thing let's do it was mutual agreement remove and beautiful music to move from conditionality and sanctions and try to focus. on understanding i've really meant this agreement which i would surely understand and i'm not sure but i think mr gandhi i disagree with that unconditionally i mean first the responsibility for the well being of african citizens and we had from the president obasanjo he has

some years ago he said who's responsible for the unemployed use in africa first of all it's. as africans yes if you your rulers assume their responsibility first i'm very happy to support all those who really undertake efforts to improve the. rules well you are. the first one to rule it is you have never done any significant change in our life the people of my. policy specifically i mean i guess what the struggle is trying to say that africans should ideally be responsible for african cause and. i am as i said very much i am very much prepared to assist an african agenda to improve the situation and when it comes to the migration issues unfortunately for the populists this is low hanging fruit for their campaign but be sure if they were not the

african migrants they would find national minorities and if they were not then they would find others to to put people against each other so that is. a problem so it's for them it doesn't matter who is better but unfortunately migrants are the lowest hanging fruit for this and we'll talk about african and european problems will go along he said so motivation for coming from africa ok is that an african problem so i think that what you're seeing talking about so why national nationalism of populism i think that it's also because we said that africa is the neighbor of europe and europe and europe is very close to africa but they don't know each other actually and i think that the media they also have. part of their responsibility the ways they've put on this issue when this migration flow west there and it puts also like marius said it's not that the first destination was

europe it was within africa and then in europe but i think that we. strength. the situation so far that everybody stands well they're all coming to my country we have to do something i have to close the borders and stuff so i think that first of all we have to know each other and europe and europe have to know what is africa now. actually we need it why because you see in africa there is the most young people and this those people are not people that is that they are very well educated and they have a lot of parts left to give also and we should come to the positive part in just a second i would like to wrap up the part who is to blame actually because there's always a lot of blame game between africa and the european union with a tweet from the rwandan president paul kagame mean if somebody doesn't really mince his words very clear tweets always and he tweeted if you look at history of this migration for

a long time europe was inciting inviting people to go to europe the message was your countries of africa are governed badly and you should come to us is that the message you heard yes. i think i think. africa. generally means. what we needed because of religion issue is so emotional why is it emotional is because is the. name so we need to help africa to promote the issue all africa should do blood. we need to be in it should. they need to. hold our hands try to see how they can help pose to do below in terms of good governance they should be encourage they should be encouraged elicit funds from africa and to europe they should as much as possible try to depart this funds back to africa

because that a lot especially in nigeria know that a lot of. money in europe that are touching european bonds that iraq and countless reproves to the part where those money but to africa we need hold in europe need to hold of rekha really need to support africa larry you need to have a mutual understanding between the agree with this that africa need handholding we have to come and shoot the two important reasons for migration massive migration inside africa and also outside africa whoa. instead be. lack of peace in some countries and the second one is the climate change these are the most important reason for migration even more than economic situation even more than economies like there is in the daily life is a life nobel but if you if you speak about massive migration displaced people it's

peace lack of peace and climate change and we are we have a part of responsibility together on this on the climate change so we have to work together on this help africa to go to the transition for the climate change and also help africa to go to a democratic way of governance in their country and peace so i think that we need to get or it's not because africa needs europe we need to get or to go in this path of climate change and piece. together to fight climate change one example but we've heard from we already that she thought there might be a little potential for something going beyond there and i'd like to put a question that's part of mr gollop isn't africa with all those young people who want to work who want to learn and the ageing europe the perfect partner for the future yes i would definitely agree i mean this is

a neighboring continent this huge potential and that has to be put in a system that really this potential can be realized and it starts with. the issues that we addressed before good governance and investment you see encouraging signs there i see more and more african intellectuals and youth and civil society in many countries that address these issues and they get governments under threat i mean we've seen it for twenty years in zimbabwe as one example unfortunately the regime was stronger still and you can go through many. countries . sitting. presidents think that they have a future i think actually they don't but the people are saying in a position to. change and that goes ahead i think we should stand by and actively pursue this african to get the

development done i think there is enough intelligence and enough will among us to society and the young people in europe in africa and we should come in and support that so we have a new we've been talking about boundless potential a young population getting even younger but at what point do we realize this potential is it an infinite state of being so. this potential is there and because of the lack of opportunities maybe in their countries it is not possible to to. to take them and to explore this opportunity and this young so the problem now of the question now is how to deal with this situation and we talk about vocational training and what. the main thing for that so if you're. working we come back to that and we say that we've all you have. mobilized the same

is for instance this vocational training for entrepreneurs so we really have to encourage the leaders to to to to just build these people working. and on the road i mean it's not that it's not a lot we have to to make a lot of them so that it can work i have maybe an example in the town of sinegal that cars every small slum it is called and in this town there is about two thousand. people there living there and what did. german because it is really a private things said we have to is to transform this area to. step sufficient city so that at the end can be sufficient and the young people can have a future and what what what happened so enterprises left campus comes to big

companies from the bakery area they come there and just give the know how to make their curry and a lot of music were part of it and now building a new town from this to new one and this is a practical practical example that's also positive and that concludes our conversation right here at least for now we're entering what max actually believes is the most fun part of this conversation but he also warned me about his german so you know. different ok let's go quick fire around next to the first yes we have actually you're allowed only to say one word as an answer to what i'm going to do it usually works we will start over here and we'll go clockwise ok so i'll start with the question is what are you looking for what are you looking at in the outcome of the european elections. so one word. inclusion exclusion. reason prevails.

for. invest and for investment solidarity i'll give you a little bit more leeway for my question please answer the following sentence europe and africa are partners. depending on each other. the. the the. ok i will give you five seconds equal now you have to go though no i think the way forward is one word we have twenty seconds left and i was. ok and i think that's a fantastic way to conclude this discussion it ended rather positively you wouldn't have thought that at the beginning of this discussion with a lot of tension but we thank you both thank you all for your time thanks for being here of course stick around with the w. for expenses coverage of the european elections in may.

jemele has no education her husband drinks. her son takes drugs. there seems to be no way out. then she dares to make a change take control of trolling. a growing thing a story africa. a. disappointing. europe a chain reaction of the greatest. began around six hundred years ago. in the midst of the revolution in far less mention its people became aware of their abilities and strengths in

a new way there was an outpouring of self-confidence. darkest enjoy. this week d w. the dimension residents emanuel mccall has laid out a raft of reforms after months of yellow vest protests have challenged his oath already my call is pledging to cut income tax for the middle class in make it easier to hold a referendum on some issues but he also says they'll be no tolerance for violent protests. powerful cycling can it has made landfall in north and most on baek

barely a month after another huge storm hit the country leaving hundreds dead and.