office in january. hello and welcome tots twenty one. but has a new landmark now humbled form is set to open in late summer in a replica oppression palace and it's long been one of germany's most hotly debated and ambitious cultural projects. that's the place that will welcome the world. in terms of investigation into the provenance of the artifacts the humbled form has lost ten years if time in my quest said this way of. the whole but what is good justice. in the future. the genesis of the humboldt forum and the challenge is our focus this week on twenty one but let's go back to the beginning.

on september seventh one thousand nine hundred fifty the government of the german democratic republic blew up the berlin city palace. it didn't fit with the ideology of the new socialist state. dominating the district of berlin mitta it had been the residence of prussian kings in the german kaiser for over two centuries now it was history. the palace to their very public was built in its place the seat of the east german parliament the fox comma and the venue for key events. german reunification heralded the end of the peoples dallas in one nine hundred ninety the building was closed due to as best us. the discussion regarding the new image of berlin meter had begun. fans of the building fought to keep the palace to republic others advocated for the reconstruction of the passion palace even erecting

a huge mark beside in the summer of one thousand nine hundred three. a third option a modern new building seemed to have no chance. on july fourth two thousand and two the german bundestag voted with a clear majority to reconstruct the old historic city palace. down to the tiniest detail a computer simulation was created. a lot of work. but nothing compared to the reality of executing the project. that cholesterol to build really can to be demolished then international architects were invited to tender their ideas italian architect frank costello won the tender his design is based on the baroque original just the eastern facade is modern. but what are the new palace be used for that's an issue that sparked

a lot of debate the idea that one in the end is to create a forum for world cultures housing berlin's extensive non european collections in tandem with the european art on the neighboring museum island. on board forum is named after the famous researcher and universal scholar at xander from whom booked . construction began in june two thousand and twelve the government is providing five hundred ninety million euros funding an extra one hundred million euros have been collected in donations to reconstruct the baroque for side. aside from the building itself the current focus is on the objects displayed inside restitution of colonial era artifacts is a matter of heated debate and one the new make him you see i'm contacting along.

a gruesome murder carved in stone and discovered by chance in guatemala in the nineteenth century. incredible boats from oceania fit for the high seas but without a single nail. and a cave from china were buddhist monks prayed over one hundred thousand years ago. treasures from berlin's enormous collection. oppression rulers started these collections over two hundred years ago today they belong to the prussian cultural heritage foundation the key player in the new book form. around five hundred thousand exhibits will be on display from all continents mostly acquired in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries. known dusty here compared to the provenance of the history of the exhibits there biographies how they were made what their original function was how they were acquired and how they made their way into

various german collections that's a part of the research on these objects which has become a key focus in recent years. and it's now an emotion and in focus could. the time. times when cultural artifacts could simply be put on display in european museums are over. the flagship project at their home board forum is raising questions about the provenance and history of objects shedding light on german colonialism a chapter of german history which was long suppressed in the public consciousness. were these items stolen looted. or acquired by illegal means. the humble farm has announced that it will host twenty thousand exhibits from berlin's ethnological collection over one thousand of them are from africa. from the late nineteenth century until one nine hundred eighteen the german i had

for african colonies the native population was not only exploited brutally enslaved robbed and killed. during this period the german kaiser received on valuable gift the lavish throne of the king of bomb in northwestern cameroon at the time a german colony. what is the significance of such a gift when it is not among equals the sculptures and basques where they purchased or are they the spoils of war. oftentimes i think we have to deal with this issue openly and transparently and face up to our promises to vote for them it's a unique opportunity for the humble foreign we can only find a new way into the future by working together jointly with the countries and peoples of origin and by reappraising our past together would be. depression

cultural heritage foundation has been carrying out provenance research for over ten years but recently it's been more intensive and rigorous no doubt as a reaction to the public debate and protests from organizations representing the victims. the restitution of certain objects that were proven to have been acquired by illegal means has taken place in the glare of the media here's how one pottinger afraid that his cultural collections good slowly diminish. his answer is diplomatic. there is no museum director in the world who can singlehandedly decide which objects should be rested to take from their museum it's a decision of the state boards and organizations have to make these decisions and so i think it's important to create a national or as i prefer to say a european international consensus on how the restitution should take place to have some kind of ground rules on how to proceed. this could take

a while in the meantime exhibits have been on the move to the on board forum at full speed the ethnological museum in berlin datta where the collection was housed up to now has been closed for some time the last visitors came here in january twenty seventh team since then things have been packed. restored. and dusted off. the famous south seas boat said to be put in a disinfestation covered to prevent any harmful insects from moving with them. transporting larger objects is a challenge in daraa a wall was broken through and a gap was left in the facade of the home boat farm which was closed up after the exhibits were forty and. none of these objects can be moved again easily they'll soon have pride of place in this exciting contemporary exhibition. was in the

museums are no longer temples of contemplation they're more like social libertarius that's why it's so fascinating to work in that the humble foreign will be an extremely attractive place to visit. within the next five years france plans to set the framework for returning cultural artifacts taken from the african countries of origin. two of the experts advising president emanuel mccraw on the issue you took time out to talk to us twenty one. forty six years old he's an economist from senegal. then he did several it also forty six is a professor for art history in berlin and paris both are advisors to french president manuel my car. in a speech in brooklyn or fuss over nov twenty seventh teen mark on announced that france would be restitution looted art and artifacts from its former colonies so

far i'm sorry britain a feasibility study on this issue with some politically explosive content. if you do level there are around ninety thousand objects in the french national museums and we were able to prove that two thirds of them entered the collections during the colonial era either a spoils of war or through scientific expeditions purchased as gifts or bequests. if appropriation of the property occurred against the will of the people we researched whether there are restitution claims in the countries of its origin in this particular case it is a sort of three to begin the fun always does that in most cases there was no permission to take the objects of plenty of reports confirm this also whether with scientific expeditions and that's all we recommend is that if there is a restitution claim the objects should be returned without any great difficulty. as an immediate in the media we read about

a fear that museum showcases will be empty in five years. is that realistic the us and is this list of yours that i really thought that no it's not the objects that came into the collections over a century. and they won't all be returned within five years. and soon there is a has to consider mt have a few key pieces which are very important for the history or identity of the country of origin we're talking about a few hundred at most not tens of thousands of objects sent thousand. or how with the reactions to president micron's idea for us to choosing artifacts or looted art sold us to defect to him via the reactions we heard were varied we travelled through fool african francophone countries to talk to our colleagues. in the republic of beneath the memory of the destruction of their kingdom by the french the memory of french colonial history is still very strong for.

everybody remembers that it was a king there he was sent into exile a metal palace was burned down. perhaps not everyone knows that two thousand objects then found their way to paris but once you know that the objects came to paris as a result of this plunder well even a school child can put two and two together those who can't take new person. and along with that african curators have thought about how to fill the empty spaces left in european museums after the restitution for me this means important consideration of the relationship the exchange between africa and europe we have a book off in your book every which is now been published in germany you describe how africa is always described from outside as a continent in decline dying and riddled with catastrophes. what does the current debate about restitution say about the way europe perceives africa today of africa

isn't that interesting lee we are now hearing arguments which reveal a deep seated cum dissension towards africa that there are no museums there or that africans are in. capable of taking care of their own works of art or cultural heritage not everyone is saying it out loud but many people are convinced that the objects would be much safer in europe and it would even be for the good of africa if they were kept in europe together it means we have a lot of work ahead to decolonized the european perception of africa. the. provenance research is only really just got going yet the humble foreign member lynn is about to open in twenty nineteen how can that work that's giving in as what this was in my recommendation would be that the museums publish their inventor a nice. this would basically mean that we see museums in the same way as libraries a library without a catalog is just

a pile of books about look under museum without an inventor e which is available to the public is simply a pile of objects that no one really knows what to do with. advice on fun come what good is it what does this debate mean to you personally but to the sort of. result they mean it's important to show the dark side of museums that normally only show us their best science has a const behind the transparency of the provenance of the stories of where the objects actually come from that's very important to me it's vison now we have this debate and everyone knows that the background of these collections is a difficult one and to me that's a big step and. water and i mean thanks for talking to us here dan. the multi-disciplinary humboldt lab tanzania project explores questions of cultural heritage with reference to the tanzanian antti facts appropriated during the years of german colonial rule. a plate with

mysterious inscriptions brought to berlin eighteen ninety six is a cheap wardrobe. for years it was mistaken for a gong. after one hundred twenty years it's true purpose has finally come to flight . recorders and we showed pictures of it to scribes near the city of kill work to see why any where this object had originally been expropriated and they were able to decipher the writing presence of heart and. it turned out to be a story from the qur'an. which clearly showed that this object was a protective talisman. psyched up. protection perhaps in the battle against german colonial rule. for three years the humble. ends a new year and examined objects that had found their way to the ethnological collections as war trophies and spoils objects that the german occupiers in east

africa had often taken with brute force. and give us up as a comment like that in a way you could say it was a sort of collective morning with these colleagues it brought up so many emotions. about seven thousand kilometers further south in darkness a lot more tanzania's government sits. tucked away between modern skies creepers are witnesses to the country's colonial past the germans created these botanical gardens nearby the national museum a partner of the home board bob dunn zinnia. there over ten thousand artifacts from former german east africa still stored in berlin alone. it was a shock knowing that they have a lot of court actions that belong to the company or the former chairman clinton

your question but. these elections were not on display they were closed by this storage so no one knew where that the from the nia knew or the germans knew . the university of dar es salaam also help to determine the origins and meanings of what was found a difficult process. and that's most of these objects quite difficult. to maintain that it is imperative it will inform the ship about them to buy a. third or for those. lies an hour and a half north of dar es salaam it was the capital of former german east africa between eighteen eighty five and nineteen eighteen the dream of the german empire of b. . the colonial power finally came true. for tanzania it was a nightmare. this is where they hang those who dared to rebel against forced labor

inflated taxes corporal punishment between one thousand nine hundred five in one thousand nine hundred seven some three hundred thousand tons of million people died in what became known as the rebellion a scorched earth policy. today the buildings are rented by the invaders are crumbling germany is willing to support restorations but there is no talk of restitute ing their massive theft of cultural assets. back at the museum in dar es salaam the historical section hardly shows any african exhibits of german colonial rule an empty space that could be filled with plates like this inscribed with us from the qur'an. if they were in spanish inscriptions we. inspired the fight that at the end of the day they would have it made of the.

money for us s. so that reason finding x. then would be important because if we. you know the physical. against. what would returning these objects mean for historians and museums. i think it took me in. academia and it's fights because now they will have some of the time. harry. things to look on and to reflect on into the research on and again this is the time because that's right in their own history. the first small step has been made. the findings and interpretations made by the african partners of them. will be incorporated into the tanzania collection in the form.

it's where. i would have just. going to his to. for there would be present at us it would be extremely disturbed when all of that is nothing about you but your. interpretation. does the humbled for a man's completion curage isn't thinking about how to best showcase the many exhibits we met director. for a tour of what's still very much a work in progress. germany's most prominent construction site is approaching the finish line for six and a half years workers have been busy here day and night one hundred thousand square meters and six hundred million euros of pure construction costs all according to plan they say. it's still hard to believe that by the end of twenty nineteen berlin

will finally be rid of the scaffolding. to burrow for side is almost completely reconstructed just like the modern east wing. the same is true of courtyard it is still surrounded by scaffolding and it looks like a building site on the inside. here in the main entrance hall more doggerel plans to receive the first guests to the home world forum later this year. they offered in yes and built as a border security guard with a symbolic gesture maybe a private tour they could share salt and bread the tradition in many cultures it comes all they could blow out alexander from home boats birthday candles two hundred fifty of them isn't about find out from facebook. but xander fun homework the impressive scholar and explorer predicted human induced climate change back in one thousand nine hundred known centuries later experts from all fields will come

together here under his name to discuss further challenges of our age globalization colonialism digitalisation. this is a it's not just a museum an exhibition space it's also a conference center and event location with a theater and dancing and food you can go up to the roof or a view of berlin leaned forward and seen it's got a lot to offer that's why they call it a forum it's got a permanent program and a changing program come out and fix and program. a program that will fill these grandiose rumors the building has been a challenge for construction workers and exhibition organizers a line. at first all that will open is a berlin show to see world cultures the audience will have to wait until twenty twenty and still are to imagine our masks flint axes and bronze plates were looking here but at home bold forum they're optimistic that if the i think the architecture

helps the interior it won't just be plain identical exhibition halls the rooms differ greatly and that opens up all sorts of possibilities of how to set the scene for each exhibition and with each new temporary exhibition we'll see a different signature design of. in one showroom a wooden wall this is where several of the controversy. bronzes are to be displayed that were stolen from africa one hundred twenty years ago france will return the ones it took but berlin has yet to make up its mind so for now the busts stay. but they'll be moved to the humbled form and displayed with video recordings that will include critical voices from their place of origin today's nigeria. and one can see as a key principle is to offer a space for other voices it isn't only the curators who tell us about their view of things but we are asked other researches and people from the societies of our

region what it means to them today. we also ask critics of the exhibitions of at the nautical museums this will give our form many different voices of course if used to make the top. dog at all promises that not only should the story of the original significance of an object be told in their own board forum but also the story of its acquisition but also goes for on jets from former german colonies yet the current discussion regarding african cultural heritage is causing tension dealing with it responsibly remains a challenge yes country it's important to me that we don't lead this discussion the europeans shouldn't decide on restitution alone it should be a joint decision with the countries of origin with the humble forum should be a place where this discussion can take place and where we present something that tells a story. like these objects from tanzania. a special exhibition will focus on

the joint german african provenance research. and of honesty all still don't use the exhibition on tanzania is a result of this research it will later moved to dar es salaam and the prussian cultural heritage foundation wants some of these exhibits which were spoils of war to stay in tanzania and tanzania blood. submission will be shown in the home board for the second hour of twenty twenty after the opening phase which will last for a whole year. two hundred fiftieth birthday will be celebrated on september fourteenth in an almost empty building. the humbled forum construction site will be around for some time a work in progress. set from twenty one today by quite a re. and feeders in. transforming

a world heritage site into an art museum germany's fault and iron works is hosting the urban archaeology. it features custom made artworks that reflect the sights of the street.

six. dition comedian. we are going to be discussing a very far the topic gender parity on like they are all the sex i'm seeing these men didn't escape the truth and women being true to my complaint is ok but if it comes too quickly i think some people may have trouble adapting to these new changes do you think uganda who ever be egalitarian the seventy seven percent to sixty minutes d w. oh. please. carefully.

don't move to simply choose to do good. action. discover the. place. subscribe to the documentary to. come. and the six there mark asked is there any method in this the madness find out later on in the show harper want to welcome to another

fun edition of your own x. with me your host meghan lee it's good to be with you as usual we've got lots of ground to go.