discovered. subscribe to the documentary. this week conflict zone is that the annual security conference in munich i made plenty of recriminations and bad blood between europe and washington my guest here is jim risch chairman of the powerful senate foreign relations committee how damaging is this transatlantic divide and how committed is the trumpet ministration tonight oh.

jim risch welcome to conflict zone thank you very much and to be here all the latest polls show the french germans the british now regard the us as a greater danger to their interests than china which you regard as your prime danger how much blame do you think washington should take for that. well a look at sometimes events drive us in a direction that we shouldn't be driven. we. we don't feel the same way about our european friends or were more like our you know there are a lot of recriminations these days particularly over iran. in regard to the wrong deal that europe continues to abide by sure the one that you get out of well we didn't walk out of it the president had states at that time barack obama and are going to that agreement. over the objection of a lot of us. it did not have the things in it that it needed to have and it was

very weak it did indeed address one issue that i viewed the iran. deal as a deal to try to discipline the bad boy in the classroom that was doing five bad things they addressed one of them but they're trying to build one didn't they dress one of them a big one they have dressed one of them but. when when you have to deal with american families whose kids have been killed by a devices that were made in iran we consider that a big deal and i can i guarantee you the families who have to deal with that loss consider that a very big deal and iran from their nose at us at you at the world and say we're going to war but i can see that u.s. senator europe doesn't see it that way the fact is that as a signatory to the nonproliferation treaty iran has pledged not to develop nuclear

weapons ever full stop what's wrong with that well there's nothing wrong with that if they would clean up their act on everything else and would have agreed to the deal wasn't about everything else it was about this you know you can argue and they do that it wasn't a perfect deal and that it could have included other aspects in it but the deal itself pledges and they recommitted to this in the deal they suddenly j.c.b. away never ever to produce can you tell me why they won't stop their terrorist activities and why they won't abide by the un resolutions those are things that those of us who disagreed with the agreement wanted in the agreement and if they weren't willing to do that then we should have kept the pressure up on them i appreciate we have a disagreement there but nonetheless we feel very very strongly that iran was we had the opportunity to our rain iran up in all the things that they were doing but that was indeed a missed opportunity and we believe. i hope you can do it i wish you all the best

in the world that you can do it you respect your views of israeli intelligence and military analysts on the suspect. i'm on the intelligence committee and i have to respectfully decline to comment intelligence information i'm not going to have but their views on the around the economy guillen for instance from the head of the domestic intelligence service the shin bet he said two years after the deal came into force well the majority of my colleagues in the israeli military and intelligence communities supported the deal once it was reached many of those who had major reservations now acknowledge it has a positive impact on israel's security must be fully maintained well that's up to them we're a sovereign nation and that we are strong our lives with them we're very strong allies with them we'll we consider the nurses of the danger than you are if there is a danger but. i hope you're not suggesting that we have to agree. on everything because we will not agree on everything and i can tell you again we feel very

strongly the iran issue and the fact that iran has got to behave itself and if it doesn't it's going to continue to be under the pressure that the united states is going to break from the sanctions that we are going to maintain in place and i hope you will since i know they're going to cause a great a rift with you or because i don't think so. you're on your you're a tone here is much different than what i get from the. and i need every day. with ambassadors from europe and and they acknowledge that we have a disagreement in this regard but they're not nearly as hostile as the questions that you're asking here today really i mean fairly federica more clearly for instance the e.u. foreign policy chief said last year we cannot accept as europeans that others even our closest allies and friends determine and decide with whom we can do business

with or trade she was talking about you sections where course telling you that bad or worse ways to get as much as she can tell us to back up and we're not going to. my you really also said it seems that screaming shouting insulting and bullying systematically destroying a dismantling everything that's already in place is the mood of our times this impulse to destroy is not the us anywhere good it's not solving any of our problems i'm with you i don't think yelling and screaming gets a say anywhere but on the other hand i think we have to have reasonable dialogue we consider ourselves strong allies of the europeans we want to remain that way but we have disagreements such as the the refusal to. your size refusal to abide by the agreement you made to. as far as nato is concerned that's a disagreement that we have but is that going to. it is that going to dissolve nato

of course not we view nato as the strongest military alliance that has ever ever been entered into in the world we want to maintain that alliance but again you talk about us now keeping our green went on iran there are members of the nato organization that aren't keeping their agreement but there's times when let's talk let's talk about that let's talk about that because at the nato summit in brussels last summer mr trump claimed that for twenty seventeen the amount of money that other nato countries were spending on defense was going down and down very substantially that was what he said that's his quote simply wasn't true was it i wasn't there so i don't know and i guess i know this they wasn't true because in twenty fifteen twenty sixteen nato europe and canada increase their defense spending by up to one point eight three percent twenty fifteen three year one for you agreeing with me though that they were keeping the commitments that

only seventeen of the members were keeping the commitments we do agree with me on that the commitment was to get it up to two percent by twenty twenty four that was the commitment we're not about twenty twenty four yet and it wasn't hard it was commitment to not try and attract it well i don't think you made a man almost try to get that and mr trump also made another there were only a statement at the summit he said everyone has agreed to substantially up their commitment they're going to up at the levels they've never thought of before it was a troop. it feels a president not wrong to say there's a communique it informs the goal of two percent by twenty twenty four that's that's all that's all it is you know i came here to do an interview with you and i want to do an interview but i don't want to debate i don't do these in washington d.c. and i'm not going to do it here but if you want to interview me i'll be happy to do it i'm not going to debate with you but i'm asking you your reaction to that because you said that my reaction you're of europe hadn't lived up to its commit it

has not and are you trying to tell me that europe has lived up to its commitments under nato is that what you're trying to tell me because believe me there is no belief for that on anybody's part that some of the european nations are not living up to their commitments and indeed look i've done this for ten years i've come over here and tried to talk to nato countries into living up to their agreements they patted us on the head and said all well we're on track to try to do this or try to do that i said i. really give president trump a lot of credit because indeed since he's been in office and since he has underscored this there are countries that are making much better efforts to live up to their agreements and we look where allies here you and i are arguing like we're on opposite sides need it was a is an alliance that we all belong to that's

a great one that's in the that we want to continue it's in your best interests it's in our best interest and argument can be made it's even more in your interest because you're closer to the issue than we are and the the i.m.f. is another issue that that we think that you have a great great stake in chancellor angela merkel said last year that there were good reasons to continue fighting for the transatlantic relationship but we have she added we can't count on it and the more. well i'm i'm sorry she feels like that we don't feel like that. you say that but a bipartisan group of lawmakers introduced a bill to prevent mr trump from withdrawing from nato without can grow congress's approval under the pressure i don't believe the president's going to withdraw from nato be. i have no reason to believe that he's going to withdraw from nato but this deal is a preemptive strike to prevent him from doing so obviously some people very

political very political obviously very people in congress believe some people do believe seriously so there's a vice hundred thirty there's five hundred thirty five members of congress and there's a belief for about everything in that five hundred thirty five members please but i don't look i'm chairman of the foreign relations committee and i'm here to tell you we are committed to nato we're going to continue to be committed to nato there is no feeling in the united states of america that we want to withdraw from nato just the opposite really and you can give that commitment sitting right here that mr trump the white house i'm not going to commit on behalf of mr trump you'll need to talk but that's all about me that's about as i give you a commitment i can give you. say that it's again that's what matters at the end of the day no it does not trump now well it does not i always have difficulty when i'm talking about the structure of our government with my european friends we are the first branch of government when the united states was founded the founding fathers

wisely put together three branches of government co-equal branches of government except that the first branch of government holds the purse strings and passes the laws the second branch of government mr trump can't pass any laws by the way i'm a friend of his he and i get along relatively well we have disagreements just like he's never talked to you about dumping nato he has never said to me that. he would dump and he took let's talk about the us attitude to human rights because that as much as anything else appears to have changed with this administration the munich security report that accompanies this this conference that you are here to attend the queues is in a strange and displaying them irritating enthusiasm for strong men across the globe would you say that was no. i'm living you know post human rights world. no look we're just like our friends the europeans the germans all all our friends in europe we feel strongly about human rights it's in our soul

and it's in our heart it's in your soul and in your heart now do we always exist agree exactly of course not but human rights is always going to be at the top of the list of those of us who are part of western civilization is just the what he had he has you say that rex tillerson sums for us secretary of state spelt out that different messy said too often promoting our values as an obstacle to advancing of interest when you know that words were human rights we're now that we're not doing very well here one inch asked me about how i feel on these issues instead of thrown at me quotes from other people i don't want to do this i really don't want to debate and i don't want to be here reacting to what other folks said ask me about human rights ask me about nato but ask me about it and how the united states foreign relations committee of the united states senate feels about it and then they are going to and you and i are going to get along really well they've got you see why these comments well yeah but there's

a gate here in europe and i did use the doubts about which direction the us is going and i'm really sorry that we didn't have a good clear understanding we started this i always do when i do this in d.c. i really want to do a good interview with you i want to tell you where i stand where the united states senate stands where our committee stands but you're asking me to defend all kinds of statements by other people and look at i'm just not there you need somebody else to to debate on this issue i'm not going to debate with an issue but i really want to give you an interview on all the issues you've got on your paper about where i am where the united states senate is and where my committee is there's talk then about. the attitude to saudi arabia after the murder of jamal khashoggi and the clear reluctance of the trumpet ministrations the home of the saudi crown prince. you have going to get let's talk about it where i have let's let's talk about where i am are satisfied let me that now you're satisfied let me tell you

what the view of the united states senate and what our committee is on this the the murder was a despicable event it was something that the people living in the twenty first century can't tolerate it's not the way human beings should treat each other and as a result of that the united states has sanctioned seventeen people the been identified with it it's an ongoing investigation of the crown prince response here it's an ongoing investigation right now we on the. united states. senate committee on foreign relations have just entered into negotiations further negotiations with the intelligence agencies to get the to get more information on that look there's there's there's nobody i hope you're not thinking that there's somebody in the that is soft on this the thinks that this is all right this is not

all right the saudi arabia is a strong allies are saying that but we heard the president say maybe he did it maybe didn't i am. look i'm not going to defend the president here you know if you wanted to interview him i can line me up probably with some people who can in d.c. who you can do an interview on and you can cross-examine them all day long statements that the president has made tweeting and otherwise and you'll have a long long interview and fine and that will be great asked me what we're doing and how we look at this you should have. the compromise responsible lindsey's a really really good friend of mine recently and i have had from. and i have has and confidential conversations on that there between he and i he is a he is a he that states and and he won't tell me whether you agree with him or not and what the fact that he says there was iraq chance that the killing of that without the prince's knowledge well look did you then ask him the evidence he had their own and i have said i view it was so i have a very different yeah i went to

a cia briefing i'm on the intelligence committee lindsey is and i have looked at every scrap of evidence there is on that and unfortunately because of my position on the intelligence committee i can sit here reiterate that for you and in that regard i can't comment on that but i can comment on the seventeen people that we have found to be responsible and that we have sanctioned let's talk about north korea since mr trump was soon to hold a summit with conjunction you suggested that he hasn't received the president hasn't received enough credit for his efforts absolutely so the president singlehandedly back to some way from the cliff he has no credit for that yes he should you could argue the single handedly took you to the cliff edge didn't you know now that foreign fury of being a well deserved a c. i think that kim jong un is going to take is that a year ago right here as you may or may not go as you may or may not know or

remember i gave a pretty tough speech on that particular subject and i really believed and i believe today that we were headed for a very very bad place in america people were. some people were urging the president states not to meet with kim jong un they said they shouldn't give him the prestige of a meeting and i was on the opposite side of that i said put president trump across the table from kim jong un let them look each other in the eye and for these rough as they are. now fully. and let them discuss this and see if they can't get us to a different place than. where we where we are and they did that and there is a really different method for taught there to be commended for talking and there certainly committed to lowering the. the rhetoric that was being thrown by both sides of each other i think the president should get great great senator there

seems to be a different place between mr trump's understanding that there's no longer a nuclear threat from north korea and the cia's understanding as they voted out you probably already interviewed both of them on that move on they said jim as bill said they're committed to developing a long range nuclear missile will post a direct threat to the u.s. ship that january thirtieth using with that. hi gina testifies before our committee regularly if we hear various points of view on all of these matters we have seventeen different intelligence agencies each of them takes each of these and rates their belief as to whether it is a strongly held belief or weakly whether it was of the moment we were at some sort of a threat north korea is still a threat well of course it still everyone's a threat of course is still a threat but look it is not what it was a year ago a year ago we were in a very very bad place i don't feel that way anymore i really don't i think the

president is going to continue to talk them i think he's going to continue to move them up back away eat from where they were i think he's pushed people would quit doing this to the president and instead pray pray that he continues to be successful in this regard because this is a matter with the different voices that are coming to washington that still so we can deal with here in europe you stay with you you may i'm sure i mean i don't hear a very bad boys for you are right on venezuela mr trump refuses to take the option of deploying u.s. forces affair and i say that again he refuses to take remove the option of to put in let me say you were in the united states senate with me in here well i think the m. here is to have the transition that is taking place continue to take place peacefully we met with the. we met with. those representative the new

ambassador to the united states and one white go is the president of venezuela at the present time we believe strongly that the morning to you we believe strongly that the. that the venezuelan people should be commended for the way that they've handled this they used the rule of law to record it to be. move. mr maduro he's still there he's still venison would you mind letting me finish my sentences pushes. they used the rule of law to remove mr madeira from the presidency and to install one quite go as the president as a result of that we in the united states have recognized the go administration as the lawful administration we've opened up the funds that are deposited in the united states and put them at the disposal of the.

administration but we mess with do it with a million pounds that. he's well he's known as the he claims he claims to be president of venezuela and he is not president of venezuela. and we believe that as time goes on he is power there is going to continue to fade what little power that he does have left at any given the thing we want most is to see this thing resolved we met with the. with the president of colombia had a lengthy conversation with them i can tell you that there is no daylight between the united states and colombia as to where this is going and how it's going. but we've met with a number of other countries obviously look at people who are the people that are supporting. the girl are the rogues gallery in the world including the iranians. the the russians the north koreans

pull frosting on mccain as he was there's a sense that you don't think this is a stalemated situation so it's not now i guarantee it's not a stenographer suddenly i'm away so you should know also you should know that we have prepositioned a tremendous amount of aid humanitarian aid on the border and that's going to start moving in in very quickly and the bit in the short time we have left shouldn't come we just look at the window the. concern about the war that trump wants to build on the u.s. southern border the news that he'll declare a national emergency to get all the funding that congress to him is this an abuse of power now in your view look we have issues on our southern border it's about two thousand miles long. there is about six hundred fifty four miles of wall existing it was built at the last four presidents two republicans two democrats it

was funded by the united states congress in a bipartisan fashion both republicans and democrats. we have serious issues tour south right now particularly from central america you have a national emergency i would clearly really clearly we haven't a clearly clear cut a lot of people in your party don't think so well very book using it it's created let me ask you this in the end in germany are you guys everybody all believe the exact same thing i can tell you i don't feature that i don't speak for any country well i can tell you there's in america there is diverse thought on any issue that you want to put on the table and that's why the america is as strong as it is because we do have that this is going to wind up in the courts and it is a lot of wrangling for years to come. the in the yesterday and it's been in the courts for many many many years and i agree with you i think everything in america

winds up in the courts some point in time as a national emergency is that mr trump's poll ratings of forming is that that's him truth the only national image and well i don't think that's the case he's he's he's polling his polling has been up and down just like everybody else but look we resolve this through elections and that and i know my european friends they do they do get apoplectic over donald trump but we haven't really ever come we have such a people you know some do that democrats more so than the republic. it's but that look we're going to get through this we're americans we've had ups and downs with europe but we will continue to have ups and downs with europe we have ups and downs between our states within the united states between our political parties and everything else but we will resolve them we'll get through them and it will be stronger and better for you could turn me on the program thanks very much for this . i.

good. food. good.

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thank you for watching. cinema stars may twenty seventh on g.w. . something tyson brentano's came to jurors or dealing with anyone at all they killed many civilians i mean. come on including my father says i was a student because i wanted to build a life for myself. but suddenly life became knowledge and saw. providing insights global news that matters d. w. made for mines d. to know that seventy seven percent obamacare are younger than sixty five. that's me and me and you. and you know what it's time all voices are bought part. of the seventy seven percent he told the b.b.c.

. this is where it was. seventy seven percent this weekend on d w. venezuela's president nicolas maduro has said those conspiring against him will go to prison and supporters of self-proclaimed president want why don't have clashed with police in the capital caracas side since have taken to the streets again after quite called for a military uprising against madrid oh. u.s. attorney general william barr will not appear before the highest judiciary committee on thursday it comes after senate committee heating where he defended his handling of the mother report interest.