and political and social topics considered from 2 perspectives. we cover the issues that turkey. for information. connection to an unbiased subscribe now due to. the trial of cattle and separatist leaders over their failed independence has laid bare some stock divisions in spanish society not least over the justice system my guest this week here in madrid is spain's foreign minister that burrell how does he answer the charge that the trials are fundamentally unfair.

welcome to conflicts. that can last a year a lady called come a fall was the president of the catalan parliament she was arrested charged with a rebellion when she was interviewed last december she was spending 15 hours a day in her cell in solitary confinement is this really the image of spain that you want to show the rest of the world. judicially decision. to hold. people under control or another to avoid them to escape from their justice like others a grandmother in her mid sixty's in a prison convicted of nothing by those enjoying joys the presumption of innocence before her. everybody who was imprisoned did preventive jail enjoys the presumption of innocence instead of 30 percent of the people who are in jail or on preventive

detention it's hard not to see her incarceration as the action of a vindictive state setting out to punish defendants they should. be enjoying this presumption of innocence. that a president of a. jail has nothing to vote with your on record as saying that you wish some of those in pretrial detention were free you said. exactly that they would have. the judge could have found another way of preventing them from escaping the action of justice you said there were other methods that could have been used you said there were other methods that could have been here so this was unfair treatment. in your view though. you'd have preferred to see them out of pretrial we are you know another thing don't make me say things that they haven't said. honesty

international calling to the use of pretrial detention is justified only when there is no alternative measure which would insure the interests of justice you have said there are alternative measures so it is unfair well look you know the judge has decided to amend this measure because he thinks it has to move so i am not going to. decide in the plate of judges in spain judges are in that band and they take their season by their own i understand that already and if maybe mr put them on had an escape maybe they should take another kind of measures do you know that with the man and all the us has been escaping that with justice but you know that there are very few people who don't know that or listen to them them explain that but it's not your role you tell me the courts are independent but it's not your role to turn a blind eye to serious questions and doubts about the way your judicial system is

functioning isn't it because you came to power your government came to power promising to transform and modern noise space my point to you is keeping people in lockdown in solitary confinement for 15 hours a day. to solitary confinement 15 hours a day 63 year old grandmother convicted of nothing. excuse me whether you say convicted of nothing do you know about their convictions on this case i start thinking that you don't anything about it she hasn't been convicted of anything as she she's been charged but she has no charges inflicted well let's. stop it we're going to stop this interview and this to me if you continue like these are you stop it. you are not even debating me going to be

weighing me. so you were in me trying to police no i'm not a subject of any kind of inquiry or from your side i understand that the right questions and let me talk if not you stop it absolutely ok i just don't. look. you came to power to modernize and. last year the e.u. score card which measured public trust in the independence of national courts and judges put spain in 23rd place on the list of member countries below portugal hungry and romania how do you feel about that spending ranking among the 20 best in the world. with. you know. of. the economist. you don't have those

i think in this thing being classified. as being unfair. but the truth is when it comes to the charges of rebellion against the defendants there has been a substantial outcry both here and abroad present that last november more than $100.00 legal experts in spain signed an open letter condemning the charge of rebellion in the council didn't move you whether you led the judges made their work i'm asking your opinion. in spain. how do you think that the decision of the german court which refused to extradite the former catalan leader. on the charge of rebellion how how do you think that has affected the credibility of the case against him because the german court said the

amount of violence required for the charge of high treason which is the closest they have to rebellion was not seen. in breach of the public peace they said does not apply because the mark was only involved in carrying out the independence. the german judge. has. a blow to your case. which at the time. of the journey the course was the court was basically saying that your central charge against the catalan defendants doesn't hold up. this is the. judge i don't know how. the situation in spain but who has to judge it as pain score. any suggestions here in spain that they're not going to get a fair trial the professor of constitutional law at civilian. royal oak said i would like to be wrong but the way in which the october 1st case has

proceeded so far inevitably points to a guilty verdict the trial will be a farce even though they will abide by all the legal procedures while it's been hell the verdict has already been written it's a chilling accusations. just that. just that when you learn agree with the association of judges for democracy about the appointment of some of the leading figures in this case very very much by. the whole of lope of the people who criticizes the judges i can barely hear other people who has another. there may well be other views but i mean there's been a damaging criticism. it's a 3rd time i am answering you this same hands in spain judiciary is in power let them do their work. the month

accused you of contributing to the increase in hate he said when you were appointed foreign minister is this the gesture they had in mind in order to send us a message of fraternal deescalation the fact that you have been you a catalan have been dead set against catalonia independence was he right was this a message of fraternal deescalation. can you tell me why mr bush is saying these kind of things i can't i don't read his mind i am asking with the asking whether you agree with it not sure not why should i hate to write to defend myself of the consideration when mr putin more and if you are unable to say. then said. if you how we have to like this thing of the year while you are talking about do you want to deescalate the situation have been discussed hating the situation these government has been making to be careful to know that the discovery of this

situation implementing and the old kind of measures in order to make things go into normal again but we cannot give to them that the people did wait to put it in the nation as they are asking for because it is against his biggest question to show that this has nothing to do with international law why not have a debate about the constitution and constitutional rights. that could have touched on those provisions which outlaw independence for spoilage regency could have done it it would have to go on for the spanish barlow and present. reform because by the basque bit they haven't done it why didn't you do it do you are you not interested in reforming the constitution who is asking for the 70 percent those manuals warlords little to all reform according according to the center for sociological research so well you're so. familiar the lying.

the center for sociological research has said word 70 percent of spaniards want constitutional reform of some college some while you can have some guy just regular public record why finish what they are not finish and don't want to do that anymore . minister in november the human rights commissioner of the council of europe wrote to the senate and the congress of deputies pressing for serious amendments to the so-called law on citizens' safety i know that your government promised meaningful changes to this law but you haven't delivered them of the i've been visiting this

the consul. he wasn't not complaining at all and he said that this opinion judicially of us consider it an endeavor and then one performing a calling with human approachable. so there was no criticism at all you didn't read the letter was sent there you had an interview with that they went with them and. i don't think there is criticism about the functioning of the spanish but you didn't you didn't change the law or do you promised meaningful changes to you haven't i don't know exactly what you're talking about the general terms their consideration of the right to counsel makes about the spain system are very good what the commissioner wrote was in his letter i find it disturbing that according to the minister of interior 27000 alone more than $21000.00 sanctions have been imposed on the grounds of lack of respect or consideration for police officers and

the articles that can easily be interpreted he said in an arbitrary manner and thus have a chilling effect on freedom of expression well you have a bias approach to this you 2 nations speaking what they can tell you is the just my gretsch court has had much less a series with respect to spain to many other countries the court of superior court of human rights decided that a number of basque separatists didn't get a fair trial. you can follow and that doesn't help the argument does it no doesn't have my argument for a beautiful until you but can't repeat the once in a game that the statistics show that there spain has much less much less cases in front of the court of human rights than many other european countries like

france belgium germany and others but you don't answer for them you answer for are you not concerned about this public safety or you wanted to change it. do you find it satisfactory that so many people were sanctioned for disrespecting the police i am not aware of what do you know about the country for the statistics or in general terms and the position that the spain has. right let's talk about arms sales in september last year you announced you had halted the sale of laser guided bombs to saudi arabia with concerns over the use of such weapons in the war in iraq when just days later you changed your mind and said the contract had to be on that. this contract more contract was higher it seems that it hasn't been there anymore sell arms. to saudi arabia but you continue to sell arms not since discovered with

this you know thieves they have been selling arms you said you had changed your mind and said this particular contract had to be on this particular contract had to be already was signed with the previous government and. they spend the shoshones government believe that these trivia yet and we heard that yeah but these . munitions of this crime have been used against hospitals hotels water whirls residential buildings factories and last year in a school bus attack so the question of collateral damage when they've been in that civilian targets doesn't really apply does it what they say everybody who has a minimum intelligence you can understand is that the precision. created less collateral damage is that which is random but if it's any civilian targets anyway that's just the luck and then we go going with either why do you

have to prove that they have been used for that well if you read what human rights watch has said last year as of november last year 6872. civilians had been killed and more than 10000 wounded by saudi arabia led coalition air strikes since 2015. they have documented about 90 apparently coalition air strikes which have hit homes markets hospitals schools and mosques and these are the people you decided to honor the contract with but it was not at all approval by the u.s. saying that there were scores by discussing the violence whether they were bomb coalition coalition airstrikes but the bottom somebody trying to explain you know the only thing i've said is something that if you have a little being to harness to provide to the problems you will understand that a precision bomb creates less had to hold them that they're random as

a former president of the european parliament i'm sure you noted the criticism such as attracted in that forum last november i mean peace heavily criticized the way member states have greenlighted most films exports to saudi arabia despite the fact that those exports violated 6 out of 8 criteria and undermine the inter european arms control but the spools of armor that the spain has been doing. doesn't fulfill completely whole legal requirements amnesty international and so your own export more prohibits arms transfers when there is reasonable suspicion they could be used in human rights violations and we have a committee that control of the support of arms and to make sure that when we support arms and we don't buy your late any verbal. and you are confident despite

the criticism from human rights groups despite what the e.u. parliament has been saying about the need to stop these arms exports to saudi arabia that you haven't violated the criteria told you for that television 2 or 3 times but you continue asking the same question that it seems this government is doing nothing that they haven't containing the supported arms so no more no more laser guided bombs to saudi arabia at least it was a contract that had to be hurt or it was signed by the previous government and since then he has been another one religion to the town i am asking the same as the minister and the time we have left i'd like to look at developments concerning gibraltar your government has made it clear that you intend to use the brics it process to open the question of shared sovereignty over gibraltar despite the fact

that both britain and gibraltar have signalled that that issue is not open for debate why do you bother bother worldwide to open the question of shared sovereignty who says that your prime minister did in november he said that the issue shared sovereignty would be back on the table of the prime minister sunsets for sure it's on the table all the time it will mean for you but it's not for them not for gibraltar not for britain for sure and what. so what so what why do you think this time you can put it back on the to do you think it's you can use the leverage the leverage of negotiations to put pressure on. how badly you form you why really you don't know anything of what you are talking about my god what do what do i don't know do you do not i do the wrong i'll pay anything i won't be what you were talking of i would have been saying very clearly that we

were not going to use the dogs of the brac said the 4th of the table the question was for a in thing how you allow you're just not voting for and you didn't hear your prime minister say the november the issue of sovereignty would be back on the table will be back on the table but not during the breaks of negotiations how being around you wow incredible what about through the trade negotiations if there is to be a free trade agreement between britain and spray what then will the again put pressure on gibraltar either you say to scale things i am going to surprise happen to come from. this is a bite this is the deal what you are talking of. you say that innocent people you say that and you say that the shoe is on the table 1st of all you said the government had said they hadn't said anything about putting that on the table then you admit that prime minister did say that can i explain he was not alone please

please have an answer to your continues quest please can you do you need to pull to leave please. we have said very clearly we have not going to put the question so brain table on to framework of breaks in negotiations and we haven't done it which doesn't mean that we forget about the question was before that will we reach 5 agreement with the government of what you brought up with all pretty. and in the future we also agreed with good reason that any of the united perspectives you've ruled you have to be on the. plane you government that's all nothing more than that for sure we requested most of rain but it hasn't been done that they will do just that to negotiation you should know our vows and not both questions on the 4th way. and this on february the 18th minister one of your

warships into the waters and tried to order out commercial vehicles that were tied up there what was the point of that action because you spoke with them for the sheets to stop they can pass but they could not stop now these were gibraltar waters british gibraltar waters which you don't recognize we. do grow. because according to you it's treaty. land not their waters we are acting according with into a nation no more. creating the ships can pass by they can not stop. one of your most experienced diplomat so how did your mission and more of the sea matters and told you to reargue or has said publicly that there's no legal basis for claiming that gibraltar has no territorial waters they said about that but to

be with them and. if you have a disagreement you do have this disagreement over gibraltar waters why not settle it through the disputes procedure of the law on the sea conflicts one of we had enough of talks as far back as 969 that friday night that do put a question you would be much better visual lead the interviewer to answer there. priest mansour university cutting me yes please please answer the question i have to all you know for this pain is not over. the ships can pass by but they cannot be stopped in the water that we can see that they don't belong but this job role for us for one of the circle that issue my dialogue in a way that will not. wear that. why not settle it. i understand you know but answering my question is a question that many parents as your one piece my yancey what are you afraid of the

dialogue taking it to international arbitration to the international court of justice they could decide this matter of a court of justice is not competent for this kind of question and the un lore of the sea they are competent but he won't take it to them either you want to put me in the bank of guilty people or i'm just asking why not you are very funny. you're really funny. you've just reached a tax agreement with britain over gibraltar so dialogue can get some results planted. in love with your broker who was written i said with written about europe yes britain women got something wrong with it you were concerned about tax fraud in gibraltar start right why not do more to prevent things like for the bribery and money laundering anyway can spain do more and we want you out

which could do more. transparency international says that key european countries are failing to enforce the oh you see these and see bribery convention which is one of the main instruments for fighting global corruption which is the question. and spain is one of them we did it with you and spring is one of them so currently showing cording to transparency international little or no inforced much why is that we do as much as we can. what you could do more sure you. could do better. mr good to have your own conflict zone thank you thank you for your but next time i would appreciate if you could the questions and i'll answer by years away. i'm not here just to give you the questions you want me so.

thanks.

for. standing up to oregon. mark inside a small town mayor and hungry. for a progressive society. welcoming minorities and fighting corruption. commandoes proud to call himself a hero here. 30 minutes w. . fighting for freedom fighting for the moment ahead cut

as a young child or millet dari was sold by her family as a house slave. 12 long hard years later she regained her freedom and now her memory is her power in the struggle against served. which she's turned into an international campaign. in 75 minutes on w. . durham league idea but what's become of it and what will it look like tomorrow dublin gets ready for an in-depth look at the european elections. the key issues for european voters and helluva good in election affect the rest of the. expert

discussions comprehensive reports and voters to use. the european elections on may 26th to dublin. sometime in the 26th you my great granddaughter will be born. but will the world be like in your lifetime and around half a century. when i was born there were 3000000000 people you will share the planet with 9000000000. your world will be around 2 degrees warmer. inevitably sea levels rise by at least one meter a century. going to have some climate impacts would turn green are we saying.

it's really frightening more trouble than i have. why aren't people more concerned. starts with the 1st w. . us president donald trump has signed an executive order that bans u.s. companies from using foreign telecoms trump's executive order declares a national emergency to protect u.s. computer networks from foreign adversaries you know the directive does not mention any country accompanied by name but it's thought to be aimed at china's leading networking company quote way. sudan.