crosstalk roald. dahl's going to affect one in 6 people in this hall. from me pretty hard to read try to understand brain difficult. to make. the point is that people want to change the why goal. they don't necessarily want you. they took you for student war i don't know if it's a cause for fools last month's venezuela's opposition attempted the boldest move yet to try to get the military to come over to their side and unseat the government but the efforts fail my guest this week here in london is van ness on the line with representatives to the venezuelan opposition leader and self declared president. one cop who's next.

but that's the norm and welcome to convicts thank you thank you for having me. you have what amounts to a failed uprising in venezuela behind you and your movement continues to make. incredibly optimistic predictions about the seats in the government why is that because the situation is unsustainable we have 18700000 venice one of the last 25 pounds over the last year that's the beginning of a major famine you have been saying it sounds this food bill for the last 2 years you've been saying it's unsustainable because you are using it becomes increasingly unsustainable and you know you said you said the other day that in 2 weeks. the lights were going over to our very very well they were answering this on the right this is still there the president maduro is still in his palace with these armed

forces as well with some of his armed forces i mean the head of his intelligence agency is now safely ensconced in the air well it's one. more now oh no not really i mean they are negotiating behind his back there are negotiations going on right now and they are looking to 2 to get out and the situation is just as you said all of this gasoline will run out in the next year but in the middle of the last few days we had one guy go insisting that he had the backing of 80 to 85 percent of the venezuelan military based on war because based on the fact that they are suffering as well they are going home to wives who tell them that their work is a humiliation to children that are crying and hungry 80 to 85 percent of the military are the worker bees of the military they are not reaping the $8800000000.00 of drug trafficking and gold's trafficking a 1000 of them to survive there on your side nothing to do is absolutely

transparent on the you are a world you failed to bring the military on time and so no on the contrary the problem is that we have cuban intelligence officers preventing them. following their children and preventing preventing them from rising up and we have over 200 military being tortured there have been over a 12 or 12 before one way knows that scares me before. one way or took office there were over 12 military uprising attempts by the military spontaneously your latest attempt was described by the crisis group as poorly conceived and easily subdued that's hardly a success is it the point is that people want change they inquired or in the middle i'm sure they're going to certainly want you. on me i'm not the only the moon as your movement vironment ambassador for the movement i think that they do they want out from this drug cartel regime that spoil tortures people it is causing

a bigger existence syria this is not violates its own cause not of it's not a big exodus and soon as this is a loser least 12000000 people we will take into account those who've been one or 2 of 1000000 people it's about 5000000 of that don't you have to get on the right i'm talking about internally displaced more we will have environs later our year by the end of the year and 8400000 by the end of next year that far as i can see i that's outside the answer the usa doesn't are fiction both sides are voting to u.n.h.c.r. the oas the un a c.r. isn't exactly a bastion of right wing ness now is it apparently your biggest mistake last month was to trust the word of the government officials you were talking to. because human right you knew this anyway so why is there such a big surprise that you were played by them why why because they took you for fools student the other no if they took us for 4 walls and we would hope that the that

the positioning of calm in defense of the people come in the fence of the constitution and accept and misty and be part of the right side of history would appeal to them i am fortunately i think that we are the ones who are going to meet what it is that the people behind us and i was not personally involved i am an ambassador i am not the president i am the chain of command flows down to mean. upwards the people who were behind stairs and took the decisions i think you know did. a bit naive about the amount of money being made by the military and their drug trafficking activities there's another psychological component which you will know well from game theory for instance as you are in your choice to negotiate a situation you have all these different players and what you know what you know but you don't know what the other person knows about what you know so basically we don't we suspect is just fair enough as americans are requesting iraq and sometimes

our began our yo gabba this is a competitive and you may see it as alleged that you made a number of important mistakes but the people who pay for those mistakes are the people now according to the u.n. in just 8 days from january the 21st to the 29th when the protests began to write more than a 1000 people were detained many of them were just kids most of them were kept incommunicado for days without access to family so using their residence ration continued to starve we have 330000 venis were in kosovo to murder you have very soon and by government sponsored look at their lives at risk 330000 have been murdered by government sponsored gangs 7000000. and the best you find when you are you can see how young they. are poorly conceived and easily what they just wanted you ask what are you recommending military use are you advocating a military intervention i'm not here to answer your questions you come here and so why do you say what i say i'm not asking you when i will read line here at what

point do you know only getting the people to come out because you're putting more lives so what are than what all the other options than what do you recommend that attend what happened on april 30th and may for us is in keeping with the constitution that was drafted by travis and i every urging i did it and it didn't work when. people trust you know why should people come out to mr karzai because now they know because now they know how how the regime is fractured that deals taluk of a your and by the best and that i saw me now has an arrest warrant he is the hezbollah bad man they also say those issues raised your best and lost you know why is it about one crisis group says you don't know most of america is that the only view because remember the old missouri national crisis no that momentary there are lots of marrow described venezuelan politics now and shaken he said the people were confused wounded and motivated results are going to fail as

a result of what we have done rather than 20 years of dictatorship and starvation and torture i'm sorry that is down to 0 and we stand for despite the fact that since then 28 percent of the national assembly has been you know it has been arrested and our vice president is now disappeared disappeared and the classic that an american sense of the as and taken with no proof of life given and because the rodeo insists in the last few days that we will as a nurse for the rights of all people in a matter walk and i just asked the question sure he has insisted in the last few days that there is absolute unity in the opposition that's pretty hard to believe what do you mean the washington post reports you don't move the 5th that some of the opposition senior leaders have become playing the blame game over what went wrong so it's unlikely that you know what you know how you saw these injuries when they won the prosecution is absolutely across all political parties the national

assembly has members that have been that have been now exiled since may for us or have been disappear or across all political criminality just what you want them in your decision to venezuela has the christian time for you know critically no i didn't your glorious and now i'm sorry i'm sorry what has happened is this after many years of the international community blaming us say you can. get your act together and you need to unify we have unified we have a president according to our constitution called one way the law every single party is behind him my appointment for instance was approved by every single political party in the national assembly by noon and pretty high not ironically what has happened is now that we are unified the international community has fractured now you have the montevideo initiative the international contact group the lima group conversations and have anna and conversations now all over the place and the irony

is that that's the ultimate hypocrisy is that the international community ok and sound like a bunch of squabbling children said the time when we have our act together since when that was a new trails in my piece since when have you discovered this newfound unity because by november last year the failure in trying to fight the fight standing by november last year the fights were so bad that luis salam might become political scientists former director of the national electoral council such a huge doubt it was a show that here is very kind of destroyed january tattoo strong january tat 29000 is where they suddenly came together really yes of course under one way though when he became the de facto president of venezuela because mother would or is in violation of our constitution we unified behind our constitution and not everybody seemed very happy with the way you took the presidency what do you mean yes 100 s. one of the most visible with. one of the most visible opposition figures when

why do took possession of the assembly the view of the majority of the venezuelan opposition was that ought not to be appointed president the 23rd of january don't be appointed as she has sidelined and when you don't know how to spell it just vanished and i just saw the 23rd of january came and he appointed himself we didn't have any information it surprised many leaders in the opposition. boneless eyes wait sorry i says let us all in politics for a long time for good reason is a 2 time loser presidential candidate and he does not have the support of the venezuelan people wonder why they are so his views are only automatically to be dismissed because they don't coincide with no they are going side with the will of the venezuelan people who want out from this regime he is not the leader of a political party he is not even in believe involved in the political party anymore and he fled the country and came in under dubious circumstances i mean if that's the pope is that's the one person you choose when you have millions of people weeping in the streets for why they all and and he did the country and you can see

him when he went on the tour at the end of the diaspora and you know unless he knows us and there are duros still in the presidential palace and you people trying to find protection while they are using the president and the razzies in the presidential palace because that the russian military the international lath thinks that it's perfectly fine ok for the russians to invade us basically and have military advisors talk about the military have brother and have military advisors in cuban intelligence he talked about the military and has stood up and led the elana foreign terrorist organization which personally intimidated time on him we just can know how you don't know that on any stop the uprising morals values you same way the not some of that is a lie we don't need speeches i want to talk about the military i'm going to talk about the fact that it was reported that one said he would probably accept a us military intervention if the united states proposed it you would have been

talking to the us military your movement has been talking to the us my counterpart about. planning let me correct you if there are factually my counterpart in washington d.c. vecchio will speak to them on monday that conversation has not happened yet so you're pretty serious about this military intervention but i'm not serious we'll have a commander in chief that what are my. our president that is his decision to make he says he's already been talking about strategic and operational planning with the head of the u.s. southern command he ordered a spectator have that conversation and that conversation has been scheduled and announced on twitter by catalyst vecchio my counterpart in washington d.c. for monday such a move would also split the international community again you say so split anyway so you're not bothered about that and your big union says it doesn't want military intervention the lima group says doesn't want military intervention you don't care what they think about this we are looking at all the options were also involved in conversations and negotiations to find a pacific peaceful solution

a peaceful resolution the offer is now and has always been on the table for them to leave the country peacefully on the plane get out take their ill gotten gains take their ill gotten 502800 1000000000 dollars that they have stolen ok take some portion of that and leave and that has to get back to democracy and that the 85 to 90 percent of people in venice whether who want to mother would go out to carry on with their lives leverage of the economy there are many many of you so you can get on a plane going to the country yes or no justice and the ability there were obviously people who had been murdering and tortured they just got off scot free how forgiving do you think the vendors who people are that a shot be after what you say has been done to them well murdering the torturing more that is there is obviously set up and if it is i don't know noting that on down the document you can download the document it's called plan base and it's in

that we have a plan for transitional justice it's in our government's plan for transitional justice and the truth and reconciliation commission which happens after you have regime change and you know this because i've done this this has happened a number of times before so we will follow the international standard on that really the fact is these offers of amnesty may well be illegal and do international law might well run counter to venezuela's international. in january human rights watch called on you to amend your amnesty bill saying that any amnesty guaranteeing impunity by absolving government and military officials of the most serious human rights violations that's incompatible with venezuela that's correct when turned out no obligation that's correct our ambassador to czechoslovakia is actually the one who brought the case to the i.c.c. so the major human rights lawyer tomorrow so who so you don't have the slightest knowledge of these and. then there's a designs on what the how the how the intern and we will take direction from the international criminal court on how crimes against humanity quant people who

commits crimes against humanity is very different case and go into a different basket there are people who are guilty of money laundering gone time or 3 months and you're talking about people who murder who torture who forced disappearances yourself. you're saying let the whole lot get out you know we are saying that we were using this knowing where you live and i'm certain that i get your facts wrong really yes your facts are wrong so when our president. president has a distinguished that he has clearly stated everybody has stated it at least 20 times 10 that anybody who is not guilty of crimes against humanity can be offered amnesty those who are guilty of crimes against humanity do not care that misty periodic and that's in keeping with international law so i'm not sure where you're getting our facts about the 3rd or 4th time in this interview you're wrong so why so wrong why have all of the human rights organizations got onto your case and said this is something you shouldn't be doing i have 5 candidates on what's in their minds i can

only speak to the fact they were i didn't hear these votes either i don't know about i think you can go on you can go online and find them one this week what's extraordinary also is that not only are you offering amnesty to some of the military and government personnel but you apparently offered to give them a place in transitional government. let's think about that for a moment just that has now you may not have a lot of forgiving do you think venezuela's will be that is something that will be announced and what the madness for the people in want for and what form where are you going to be it will be put to them it will be put to them and transitional government is not a permanent government and you know how transitions to democracy are always complicated hard choices oh ways have to be made but again we look at the 330000 people the government has murdered with gangs we look at the 18700000 people on their way to

a major famine 7000000 of whom are in danger imminent danger of dying and or in imminent danger and in mr justice humanitarian aid so just as humanitarian aid is being sought aside this regime who is shooting people for carry out there is a few very valid and those disputing you said that are you telling me then the justice tell you i'm sasha becomes no transition comes 1st those who come to realize the error of their ways and come to love our people and their country and their constitution will have that credited to them even if there is no government even if they do the military being if they will not use crimes well that is something yes that is long as we get the regime transferred back to the country transition the baggage and the moderation of the growth of this war you mean i am absolutely certain we need this dictatorship drug cartel gone so that my

country before it is self a gag any pros they're not they're not a government they do not have gotten a try they were having that is they have a gun they have the guns and we need the guns for territorial control as well we are also invaded by foreign terrorist organizations there are also bombing our allies and our neighbors there have been 2 terrorist attacks by then you and i 12 years i mean literally and you might well call in the. us military to do the work for which there are many militaries who would be out of the colombian military has asked for permission to come in and kill the terrorists you can trust donald trump taking that just on the trail this is without donald wait wait a minute wait a minute you're missing here i'm taking on your missing irish walking about the u.s. military to come if the u.s. military's 1st of all your own have not worked with the military the u.s. military is not 2nd of all as these are there is a term under in chief of these military he's the commander in history of founder and chief of the military but you chose another ology that does not that's

a relevant and i really i guess of course i'm not here to comment on venice or the u.s. politics i'm here to comment on my country you won't comment on the commander in chief of the military that you may come i am not outraged and i have not been able to understand your movement. and i have not commented on it. that is not my claim that i am not commenting on i am not a representative of the u.s. government i am a representative of the why the government period i'm here to discuss my country and the blood on the hands of the model dictatorship which is actually the world's biggest drug cartel importing drugs live t.v. said better already we now know that higher level talks have taken place in norway sorry plea not direct talks correct mediated by norway what's happened in these talks. not much is the answer is the short answer to that so what happened they've been totally unproductive yet they were totally unproductive there were an initial out we so because the group the international contact group and the us that you.

love to comment on were all the other ones too well it's only we're aware that we're aware that nor you know and the un also again not a bastion of right wing ness. you know we're aware of these talks and we sent representatives from why they were government the mother said. 2 representatives they didn't authorize together they did not speak to each other they did not have breakfast together and there you saw my in the point was the man it was with the norwegian oarfish holes to state their position and under what conditions they would negotiate we stayed so that's the next step so we stayed we were very clear and my president has been very clear and he has stated it once again online yesterday what's the next step that we will enter into any we will enter into good faith negotiations that entails and of those 3 step plan we have laid forward since january general setting creation of the system of these 2 of

course through our own dishes it's all conditions of course there are conditions to talks or conditions to any talks you buy a house there are conditions it's a little different well of course that's right there are 30000000 lives at stake so oh yes if there are conditions for your purchase of a house or your old us sir you'll get a valid saving their lives 1000000. you're going to lay down preconditions which the other side is going to refuse healthful as though we have no we the other side is the one that never met its conditions the module regime is the one who said it does not want to elections we are not blocking free and fair elections them adieu to regime has and them a doodle regime is the one that has extended talks in the past what has happened is when they have had a dialogue and we had the dialogues according to they chose the place they chose the timing they chose their representatives they kept our political leaders imprisoned and we set it free the political prisoners no free and they just carried on and in the meantime they have stolen more money. more of these tortured more

pete is it a precondition of these talks that mothers or not do or step with correct absolutely and what makes you think that they're going to do that for you because you think because they were negotiating to get him out already there has been a great others are saying you. know they weren't they are convinced they are serious yes absolutely i know for a fact they were up. i that i can also suppose on that but i know for a fact that they have been negotiating actively with us and also with other countries to find a way to take them there are countries that have said that they will take them to these talks are quite advanced you think you can. deal with it takes all this really take what it in the negotiations that may actually no illusion no way to take it all 130000000 people living under a dictatorship using various doesn't just sour a more your own for editions we're all going to she's conditions now key can do

anything other than end of the usurpation transitional government which is to be negotiated and free and fair elections with proper international observation i don't see how that's a winner take all at all my country is dying. under the under the guy gaze of a fractured and conflicted international community that has just watched my people die and be tortured and done nothing about here international community is going to run wide recognition these are the only i'm going from inside the country that you know he absolutely does have it from inside the country said people on the streets that's not the same thing isn't what it what do you expect than people on the streets it's power people on the science it's love. people on the streets as support people on the streets as an expression i mean because the problem and the hope and the other in the crowd and throw ice our future and it can come and go well it was certainly one for mother would have didn't it and it will that's right

because he he won't get out of the way and he had a you know he was there on a fraud he is there as a torch euro he is there as someone who did not when president as i read is still there and right around the outside all right in our realities on our duty now we are not on the outside we are in the hearts of the venezuelan people we all and with that legitimacy of the of all the western democracies all the demaio all the countries that are liberal democracies that have rule over all recognize our constitution and they recognize the legitimacy of why the all that we are in a situation where a drug cartel has taken all the leaders of power by the way doesn't mean you're going to succeed so you they are does the site doesn't mean you're going to see them die trying when you have no option but to fight for our people i will fight for my people until i draw my last breath and that's a little thanks very much would be thank you thank. you he.

he. he. he. he. would. you.

ana. shifting powers the old order is history the world is religion izing itself and the media's role is keep the topic in focus of the global media forum 2019 today one out of 2 people is online who are we following come do we trust debate and ship

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