world where we need to get. in the human mind. and then we can make it real to. the point is if people want to change that why go all in the middle and surely going to certainly point you. they took you for food student war i don't know if they took us full force last month venezuela's opposition attempted the whole just move yet to try to get the military to come over to their side and unseat the government but the efforts fail my guest this week here in london is vanesa newman representative to the venezuelan opposition leader and president juan why what happens next.

but that's the norm and welcomes conference on thank you thank you for having me it's a pleasure to be here you have what amounts to a failed uprising in venezuela behind you and your movement continues to make. incredibly optimistic predictions about one seat in the government why is that because the situation is unsustainable we have 18700000 venice ones have lost 25 pounds over the last year that's the beginning of a major famine you have been saying it's unsustainable for the last 2 years up you've been saying it's unsustainable becomes easy it becomes increasingly unsustainable and you know you said you said the other day the do 2 weeks. the mates who are going over to our very very low there were no injuries on the right this is still there and the president maduro is still in his palace with these armed forces as well with some of his armed forces i mean the head of his

intelligence agency is now safely ensconced in the air what is one. even more now oh no no really i mean they are negotiating behind his back there are negotiations going on right now and they are looking to 2 to get out and the situation is just an example of this gasoline will run out in the next year but in the middle of the last few days we had one guy go insisting that he had the backing of 80 to 85 percent of the venezuelan military based on war because based on the fact that they are suffering as well they are going home to wives who tell them that their work is a humiliation to children that are crying and hungry 80 to 85 percent of the military are the worker bees of the military they are not reaping the $8800000000.00 of drug trafficking and gold trafficking that has nothing to say about their on your side nothing to do is absolutely transparent on there you are

a world you failed to bring the military on time and somehow on the contrary the problem is that we have cuban intelligence officers preventing them. following their children and preventing preventing them from rising up and we have over 200 military being tortured there have been over at 12 or 12 before one way or the scale of the excuse me before. one way though took office there were over 12 military uprising attempts by the military spontaneously your latest attempt that was described by the crisis group as poorly conceived and easily subdued that's hardly a success is it the point is that people want change they saw in the middle i'm sure they're going to certainly want you. on me i'm out there on the moon you know movement otherwise i am an ambassador for the movement i think that they do they want out from this drug cartel regime that spot tortures people it is causing

a bigger existence syria this is not violates its own cause not a huge it's not a big exodus and soon as this is a loser least 12000000 people what we have to take into account those who've been a 1000000 people it's about 40000000 of that so you have to get on the jury i'm talking about internally displaced more we will have environs later on the year by the end of the year and 8400000 by the end of next year that far out of this idea that's out so to answer the u.s. a dozen are fiction both sides are going to u.n.h.c.r. the oas the u.n. h.c.r. isn't exactly a bastion of right wing ness now is it apparently your biggest mistake last month was to trust the word of the government officials you were talking to. drug traffickers human rights you knew those anyway so why is there such a big surprise that you were played by them why why because they took you for fools student the other know if they took us for fools i mean we will hope that the that

the positioning of common defense of the people come in the fence of the constitution and accept and misty and be part of the right side of history would appeal to them fortunately i think that we are the ones who i still maintain that the people behind this and i was not personally involved i am an ambassador i am not the president i am the chain of command flows down to mean. not upwards the people who were behind stairs and took the decisions i think you know did what power ups. about the amount of money being made by the military and their drug trafficking activities there's another psychological component which you will know well from game theory for instance as you're trying to negotiate a situation you have all these different players and what you know what you know but you don't know what the other person knows about what you know so basically we don't we suspect is just very dark clouds of ariel sharon christmas day i. began oh

yeah ok now this is a competitive and you may see as you made a number of important mistakes but the people who pay for those mistakes of the people now according to the u.n. in just 8 days from january the 21st to the 29th when the protests began to write more than a 1000 people were detained many of them were just kids most of them were kept incommunicado for days without access to family so using their residence ration continued to starve we have 330000 venice women coming out of it and you have very soon and by government sponsored lives at risk 330000 have been murdered by government sponsored gangs 70000000. and the best you found to be with you are you can see how young they really are poorly conceived and easily what they're just what are you what are you recommending military use are you advocating a military intervention i'm not here to answer your questions you come here around so why do you say what i say i'm not asking you when i will read line here at what

point do you know edging the people to come out because you're putting more lives in the water than what all the other options than what do you recommend that attend what happened on april 30th and may for us is in keeping with the constitution that was drafted by this and i heard you do that and it didn't work was. people trust you know why should people come out to mr carson because now they know because now they know how how the regime is fractured that deals taluk of a your and by the best and that i saw me now has an arrest warrant he is the hezbollah bad man they also say those issues raised your best glasnost why is it about one isis group says you don't know most of america is that the only view of us or american who was very emotional crisis created know that momentary to our loss or mero described venezuelan politics now as shaken he said the people were confused wounded and motivated i suppose ours are going to fail as

a result of what we have done rather than 20 years of dictatorship and starvation and torture i'm sorry that has dashed now to know and we stand for despite the fact that since then 28 percent of the national assembly has been you know it has been arrested and our vice president is now disappear disappear in the classic latin american sense of the as a taken with no proof of life event and the rodeo insists in the last few days that we will as well and for the rights of all people no matter what and i just ask the question sure he has insisted in the last few days there is absolute unity in the opposition that's pretty hard to believe what do you mean the washington post reports you don't move the 5th that some of the opposition senior leaders have become playing the blame game over war when growing so it's unlikely that you know what you know you saw a reason to do things when they won the prosecution is absolutely across all political parties the national assembly has members that have been that have been

now exiled since may for us or have been disappear or across all political criminality just mateen with them your decision to venezuela has their the president tomorrow i voted for you know critically no i did your glorious no i'm sorry i'm sorry what has happened is this after many years of the international community blaming us say you can. get your act together and you need to unify we have unified we have a president according to our constitution called one way the law every single party is behind him my appointment for instance was approved by every single political party in the national assembly by unanimity how not ironically what has happened is now that we are unified the international community has fracture now you have the montevideo initiative the international contact group the lima group conversations and have anna and conversations now all over the place and the irony is that that's

the ultimate hypocrisy is that the international community ok and like a bunch of squabbling children said the time when we have our act together since when that has a new trails of my people since when have you discovered this new found unity because by november last year the failure in trying to fight the fight stand by november last year the fights were so bad that luis salamanca political scientists former director of the national electoral council such a handout it was a show that he's a graduate retired destroyed january tattoo strong january tatts 2019 as well i'm suddenly came together really yes of course under one why though when he became the de facto president of venezuela because mother would or is in violation of our constitution we unified behind our constitution and not everybody seemed very happy with the way he took the presidency what do you mean yes 100 s. one of the most visible of with. one of the most visible opposition figures when

why do took possession of the assembly the view of the majority of the venezuelan opposition was that ought not to be appointed president the 23rd of january came and i'm here to play it as it has sidelined many on the house and i just finished and i just saw the 23rd of january came and he appointed himself we didn't have any information that surprised many leaders in the opposition a cup. size wages are you i said let us all in politics for a long time for good reason is a 2 time loser presidential candidate and he does not have the support of the venezuelan people one by the also has views are automatically to be dismissed because they don't coincide with now they don't go inside with the will of the venezuelan people who want out from this regime he is not the leader of a political party he is not even really involved in the political party anymore and he fled the country and came in under dubious circumstances i mean if that's the pope is that's the one person you choose when you have millions of people weeping in the streets for why they all and and he exhibited the country and you can see

him when he went on the tour at the end of the diaspora and you know unless he knows us and there are duros still in the presidential palace and you people trying to find protection while they were president and be ready he's in the presidential palace because that the russian military the international lath thinks that it's perfectly fine ok for the russians to invade us basically and have military advisors talk about the military have go there and have military advisers in cuban television as he talked about the military has signed up and the elana foreign terrorist organization which personally intimidated time on him we just kino's i don't know that on any stops the uprising mourns the housing issue same way the nazis as a lineman we don't need speeches i want to talk about the military i'm going to talk about the fact that it was reported but one said he would probably accept a u.s. military intervention if the united states proposed it you have been talking to the

u.s. military your movement has been talking to the us my counterpart about interest. only let me correct you if there factually my counterpart in washington d.c. vecchio will speak to them on monday that conversation has not happened yet so you're pretty serious about this military intervention but i'm not serious we'll have a commander in chief what are my. our president that is his decision to make he says he's already been talking about strategic and operational planning with the head of the u.s. southern command he ordered to have that conversation and that conversation has been scheduled and announced on twitter by catalyst vecchio my counterpart in washington d.c. for monday such a move would also split the international community again you say it's a split anyway so you're not bothered about that european union says it doesn't want military intervention the lima group says doesn't want military intervention you don't care what they think about this we are looking at all the options were also involved in conversations and negotiations to find

a pacific peaceful solution a peaceful resolution the offer is now and has always been on the table for them to leave the country peacefully on the plane get out take their ill gotten gains take their ill gotten 502800 1000000000 dollars that they have stolen ok take some portion of that and leave and that has to get back to democracy and that the 85 to 90 percent of people in venice whether who want to mother would go out to carry on with their lives let me just i mean there are many many this you so you can get on the plane going to the country yes so no justice and the accountability there were obviously people who had been murdering and tortured they just got off scot free how forgiving do you think the vendors who people are that a shot be after what you say has been done to them well murdering the torturing more that is a force that is obviously set up and. there are the letters that go on down there the document you can download the document it's called plan base and it's in that

we have a plan for transitional justice it's in our government's plan for transitional justice and the truth and reconciliation commission which happens after you have regime change and you know this because i've done this this has happened a number of times before so we will follow the international standard on that really the fact is these offers of amnesty may well be illegal under international law and might well run counter to venezuela's international. in january human rights watch called on you to amend your amnesty bill saying that any amnesty guaranteeing impunity by absolving government and military officials of the most serious human rights violations that's incompatible with venezuela that's correct we cannot know obligation that's correct our ambassador to czechoslovakia is actually the one who brought the case to the i.c.c. so the major human rights lawyer tomorrow so who so you don't have the slightest knowledge of these and what we. say that sounds on what the how the how the intern and we will take direction from the international criminal court on how on crimes against humanity crimes people who commit crimes against humanity is

a very different case and go into a different basket there are people who are guilty of money laundering drug tunnel through my mind and you're talking about people who murder who torture who forced disappearances yourself. you're saying let the whole lot get out you know we are saying we are using this knowing where you are going like as your facts are wrong really yes your facts are wrong so when our president our president our president has a distinguished that he has clearly stated everybody has stated it at least 20 times 10 that anybody who is not guilty of crimes against humanity can be offered amnesty those who are guilty of crimes against humanity do not at mysti period and that's in keeping with international law so i'm not sure where you're getting our facts about the 3rd or 4th time in this interview you're wrong so why if i'm so wrong why have all of the human rights organizations got onto your case and said this is something you shouldn't be doing it isn't what's in their minds i can only speak to

the fact they were you didn't hear these words either i don't know but i think you can go on you can go online and find them one this week what's extraordinary also is that not only are you offering amnesty to some of the military and government personnel but you apparently offered to give them a place in transitional government. let's think about that for a moment just that has now you may not have a lot of forgiving do you think venezuelans will be that is something that will be an ounce of change and with the madness of other people in want for and what form where are you going to be it will be put to them it will be put to them and transitional government is not a permanent government and you know how transitions to democracy are always complicated hard choices oh ways have to be made but again we look at the 330000 people the government has murdered with gangs we look at the 18700000 people on their way to

a major famine 7000000 of whom are in danger imminent danger of dying and or in imminent danger and in mr justice humanitarian aid so just as imaginary is being is our side this regime who is shooting people for carrying out those of us who are valid time those disputing you say that are you telling me then that just is so you and sasha and becomes no transition comes 1st those who come to realize the error of their ways and come to love our people and their country and the constitution will have that credited to them even if they're going to there's no government even if they would be the really if they would not use crimes well that is something yes that is known as we get the regime transferred back of the country transition the back. of this or do you mean i am absolutely certain we need this dictatorship drug cartel gone so that my country going to be there is self again i barely procession

or there are not a government they do not have evidence for i was a war matter that is they have a gun they have the guns and we need the guns for territorial control as well we are also invaded by foreign terrorist organizations that are also bombing our allies and our neighbors there have been 2 terrorist attacks by then you and i 12 according to you i mean literally and you might well call in the. u.s. military to do the work for where there are very many militaries who would be out of the colombian military has asked for permission to come in and kill the terrorists you can trust donald trump taking that day just on or try this is without donald wait wait a minute wait a minute you're missing here i'm taking on your missing irish looking about asking the u.s. military to come in if the u.s. military 1st of all your office have not worked with the military the u.s. military is not from 2nd of all as you saw there was a tremendous chief of the u.s. military he's the commander history of founder and chief of the military but it's interesting that all agree that does not that's

a relevant and i really i guess of course i'm not here to comment on venice or the u.s. politics and here to comment on my country you won't comment on the commander in chief of the military that you may ask to come i am not out so you can imagine i have not been able to understand your movement. and. i am not commenting on it no that is not mike in that i am not commenting on i am not a representative of the u.s. government i am a representative of the why the government period and here to discuss my country and the blood on the hands of the model dictatorship which is actually the world's biggest drug cartel importing drugs live t.v. said that already we now know that high in the full talks have taken place in norway sorry plea not direct talks correct mediated by norway what's happened in these talks. oh not much is the answer is the short answer to that what how they've been totally unproductive yet they were totally unproductive there were an initial out we each so because the group the international contact group and the us that

you. love to comment on were all the other ones to ones who were aware that we're aware that nor you know and the un also again not a bastion of right wing nuts. you know we're aware of these talks and we send representatives from the why the government the mother decided. to representatives they didn't authorize together they did not speak to each other they did not have breakfast together and there you saw my in the point once the man it was with the norwegian oarfish ols to state their position and under what conditions they would not go she ate we stayed so that's the next step so we stated we were very clear and my president has been very clear and he has stated it once again online yesterday what's the next step that we will enter into any we will enter into good faith negotiations that entails and of those 3 step plan we have laid forward since january general setting creation of the system of these 2 of

course the. conditions of course there are conditions to talks or conditions to any talks you buy a house there are conditions it's a little different well of course that's right there are 30000000 lives at stake so oh yes if there are conditions for your purchase of a house or your does sir you'll decide a valid saving their lives 1000000 you're going to lay down preconditions which the other side is going to refuse helpful as though we have now we the other side is the one that never have met its conditions the model regime is the one who has said it does not want to elections we are not blocking free and fair elections the maduna regime has and the motherhood a regime is the one that has extended talks in the past what has happened is one that we have had dialogues and we had the dialogues according to they chose the place they chose the. timing they chose their representatives they kept our political leaders imprisoned and we set it free the political prisoners know free and they've just carried on and in the meantime they have stolen more money. more

of these tortured more pete is it a precondition of these talks that mothers are not doing that absolutely and what makes you think that they're going to do that for you because you think because they were negotiating to get him out already there has been a great are those are you saying you there will be you know they weren't they are convinced they are serious yes absolutely i know for a fact they were up. i that i can all this goes on there but i know for a fact that they have been negotiating actively with us and also with other countries to find a way to take them there are countries that have said that they will take them to these talks are quite advanced you think you can deal with it takes all this really take what of all that in the negotiations that may actually no illusion no way say that all 130000000 people living under a dictatorship using various doesn't just sour a more varied all conditions conditions low key can do anything other than end of

the usurpation transitional government which is to be negotiated and free and fair elections with proper international observation i don't see how that's a winner take all as for my country is dying under the under the guy gaze of a fractured and conflicted international community that has just watched my people die and be tortured and done nothing about here international community is going to want weibo recognition these i mean i got it from inside the country that you know he absolutely does have it from inside the country said people on the streets us that the same thing isn't what it what do you expect than people on the streets it's power people on the streets it's love. people on the streets is support people on the streets is an expression i mean the problem and hope and the other of the crowd and her allies are few and it can come and go well it has certainly won for mother would have didn't it and it will that's right because he he won't get out of

the way and he had a you know he was there on the a fraud he is there as a torch euro he is there is someone who did not want president as i read that he is still there and why are we out all right and are we going to sign our duty now we are not on the outside we are in the hearts of the venezuelan people we all and what the legitimacy of the of all the western democracies all the demaio all the countries that are liberal democracies that have rule over all recognize our constitution and they recognize the legitimacy of one by the all that we are in a situation where a drug cartel has taken all the levers of power by the way doesn't mean you're going to succeed is the only way i does aside doesn't mean you're going to see or you die trying we have no option but to fight for our people i will fight for my people until i draw my last breath and that's a little thanks very much. and. he.

he. he. he. he. he.

i was you see when i arrived here i slept with 6 people in a room for 3 nights in. it was hard i was fair. i even got white hairs and. the german language hit me a lot this keeps me going to go punch me in truck loads of say you want to know their story the muslims are fighting and reliable information for migrants. history

on the other today show where it ended up quite a long drawn out combative and even violent election campaign draw still close. to . the gulf one affects one in 6 people in this world. join me british comedy as we try to understand why india are going to up the. cliff may. be governor as a show. sometime in the 26th you my great granddaughter people are. put with the world be like in your lifetime and around half a century. place when i was there were 3 people you will share the planet with 9000000000. your world moves around to degrees one. inevitably sea

levels rise by at least one meter in such a place. for him to have some climate impacts which are greater small movie played it's really frightening coltrane. played thanks why aren't people more concerned. for the 1st. place but. the book.

played the book play. this news coming to life from the indian prime minister and the danes are more these hindu nationalist b.g.p. declares victory in the country's elections 1st results show the party is heading for a decisive majority and. what will it mean for the country going forward but also coming up to pose open elections to the european parliament that includes in the u.k. a country that had planned to leave the european union by a populist looks set to make big games as the situation for britain has been.