downloads you can still come back from super. together. and very kind of interactive exercises are talking about d.w. dot com slash adoption and on facebook in the app store. for a damn thing you. can bet that the. government has already shelved the bill that would be and it would not come back to why should there be amnesty for the rest. isn't that erosion a rule of law this is going to give me time resolute let me finish this is a heated discussion if he needs it there's got to give me a chance to answer like i didn't want to act on what you said i'll interrupt and then i can answer weeks of mass protest in hong kong show no sign of coming to an end but how long will break put up with it my guest this week here in the city is running tong a member of the hong kong government's cabinet and senior advisor to its chief

executive kerry to the authorities now except that the new extradition law which provoked the crisis should be scrapped now and for good. welcomes conference on. 2000000 people on the streets of hong kong. failures by the hong kong government admitted by the chief executive kerry lam why is she still there why hasn't she was designed well i think this is a more complex question than simply asking why did she not resign 1st of all someone fado not go out of to someone fails in their world i go no i don't want to argue about a figure but a more accurate figure would be more like half a 1000000. but even then it's a very very large number of people on the street and i think the government accepted that the 2nd thing is that we must understand what the government has been

trying to do. a poll by one of the more mainstream newspapers of the people would turn now in force to march on sunday revealed that 90 percent of the people who much thought that the extradition bill was so enable the hong kong government to send people back to china for trial for criticizing beijing now they couldn't be more wrong i guess you could actually extradition because it is this extradition bill yeah and this is that you about extraditing people who committed a crime across the border or outside the border of our own call comes to hong kong and we need to have a legal framework to see how we would do when i want to get on to that so many there want to get into that deal has got nothing to do with any of the freedoms or core values of the people in hong kong so why if that is so why should the chief

they say either resign because she hasn't any intention deficiences in the work of the government and you tell me which government leader in the world have not made mistakes this isn't these are huge middle insanities a huge mistake look you know i know we had we not as i say i'm not there are a champion of the liberal party saying that you should resign as well be clearly that is not even to do with the call that it was our freedoms of the people. of on kong now the government has not done expect the nation following enough true that is because of the fact that we need to deal with a particular criminal who is about to be released very soon and that basically. impact to the period of consultation now that is not ideal i accept but this is not the sort of thing that you say that because it's a huge mistake therefore the chivas like them ought to resign but i don't want to resign maybe i want to resign why why is it why don't you really want it in failure then no i'm not i'm not what i'm not admitting i am guilty of and he did kind of

phasey admit it deficiencies in the work of the government i personally have to shoulder much of the responsibility as you said i'm sorry says that to you says and anxieties instance i'm sorry i mean you are being unfair really i mean quoting her is that unfair no what you're being a little unfair about that she is basically saying that she has not done the consultation thoroughly enough that is not something that any government would take the blame and say the whole government or the leader or the prime minister whoever should resign and i say which government leader in the world have not made mistakes the rest of time now you know i'm sorry let me push an extradition here i want to follow up on what you said ok about the extradition is only a chance to answer your question i did i gave you a sense then you have to reserve your me not in the view of you i give you plenty of. a new extradition bill that was widely seen as an attempt to remove one of the

key legal safeguard think of hong kong's way of life i know you do i know you scoffed at all objections from far and i don't know who has done some of the most respected legal if you should have put it here found innocent nationally i think unfairly the prison bill sorry the present statue i do where you've read it and i probably have not because have you read it you probably. i wouldn't have put the question the way you did the present law was enacted not by the government but by the british colonial government before they hand over which are getting elements not talking about the end of the statue i'm talking about the amendment and so you know i'm talking about the statue you must read the statue or to understand what it's called not if you haven't even read it you don't understand it and you don't qualify to produce that you cite let me just finish i have not finished you say you're going to give me time resolute let me finish right ok the statue or sonata by the british colonial government it follow very closely the resolution of the

united nations in 1900 are you saying that the united nation was suggesting that whole culture do something which is contrary to human rights and core values and freedoms that is of course not true now come to the amendment what the amendment did was not to change the legal framework all it purports to do is to extend the applicant ability of the statue to china and the rest of the world the state a lot of people aren't buying that you are hot on car association what you want obviously not buying on bar association as far as facts and not talk about opinion or i talk about opinion not talk a very respected organize ations mr tyler is i don't doubt virus so seriously the hong kong law society the law society of england and wales the international bar associations human rights institute fair trials the defense extradition lawyers forum amnesty international human rights watch the speaker of the house of

representatives all of them challenge the suggestion by your chief executive that the amendments you want to make to the hong kong extradition laws are in accordance with international human right is they also have say it is if you don't the only one who sees the terms know what they're going to anyone who sees the light that is to correct yeah yeah from a rule of law point of view you would think no one let alone lawyers would have jumped to the cement exact that's what you said as i say it follows what you not also leads know nothing if you're the only one who sees the light falls on the united nations provided each member state to do. and we are following the precise sprue jeem as the u.s. military in the u.k. regime canadian a g m australia and nobody is making any comment about those countries i don't understand that i and i understand said mr to who think that the judiciary in hong kong is not up to its work its name has to do its not my opinion

the opinion of your own you've got to look at the 1st hong kong one association is putting a travesty of the facts to me so the hunk of our 2 association is putting the travesty of the high things we are not looking at the law they're not looking at both of these and the lawyers have got it wrong. it's capable of doing a proper job of keeping you say you say to these and any decision that is made by the chief executive is subject to confirmation by the whole no no no no you can completely rough across a rail and we want to see what is wrong about the world because you label fancy i'll propose you manufacture on now you can do it on a show proposed to handle a lot of and sell criminal suspects can be extradited without confirmation by the hong kong courts. can i say you know can i ask you a question yeah you got all the facts wrong what facts are or one fact is if you look at the statute you know that the chief executive has no power to order

extradition is clearly spelled out in the statute for one thing secondly ordered the chief executive can do is to refuse extradition the other side would refuse exactly that under final decision is with refuse that's the final decision he can she can he or she can only refuse a condition he or she cannot alter extradition the only institution which can order extradition is the courts mr tung that the your and bar association points out that the magistrate of our home guard and i understand and our chairman so not only does a land the magistrate go high non-basic does not have jurisdiction and who do not agree with this the magistrate are how can i get the question of the magistrate in hong kong says the bar association does not have the jurisdiction to inquire into the quality of justice that the future may go enjoy wrong once surrender why am i going run so we don't want the bar association or a wrong really you are only talking about the committal process yes the law has got

2 processes one is the committal process the other is about save guarding and the protection of human rights and fair trial which is being provided in section 5 of the statue as the u.k. law society pointed out in so far as the proposals would introduce any human rights examinations at all they are vested in hong kong's chief executive not those around or a peer really is wrong it's wrong so the u.k. law society goes wrong please pick up the statue have a look before you come to me and ask me questions. you're absolutely right that the judges and magistrates of hong kong wouldn't dream of currying favor with beijing they leave that to people like you. you want to curry favor with holy unfair it is not only unfair to me but this is really extremely unfair to the judges and judges are there to carry out the law if they can't carry out the law they have no

business being judges all right i have no power whatsoever i mean there are vital to the government i have no power because even the chivas i think so has no power conferred by the law i keep telling and i haven't said it starfish and they are enough times you have to look at the law to understand what are the facts if you don't lose out an organization and so you can't tell what other people would say yes yes because their opinions matter no i don't think so the facts matter i'm sorry facts matter our society here at home you know it does not outline of the not of these opinions on matters of the of the facts and the u.k. law society who writes that the proposals in the extradition bill fundamentally imperil the operation of the rule in hong kong rule of law in oregon they've got it wrong as well there are they don't understand why any why why do they think it will imperil the rule of law on kong if all that is happening is that the task of scrutinizing any requests for extradition is to be considered by the judge as mr

someone you're not one not isness of asking i don't say a trial is available in the mainland what kind of fair trial well fair trial what the government has proposed is to ensure that they would be open trial defense and would be a little touch on the mainland yes open kids when do they have open trials on the mainland are you are you letting me answer the question on you know. prisons are up that's very very and belike right and there have been this is a heated discussion that no no if this is it isn't it this is going to give me a chance to answer my question. of time interrupting than i can answer i'm telling you that the government is proposing to ensure that there will be assurances of open trial this defendant would have the choice of his own lawyer the trial has to be proceeded on the basis that it will be in the language which he understands there would be visitation rights or all these the minimum guarantees of article 14 of the i.c.c. p.r.

do you know what is' is to be are is international covenant of civil and political rights right it's a charter for human rights the government is saying that mr chairman i was not ratified i'm not with china i'm talking about hong kong because the gay keep it as in hong kong where i'm talking about is one can is there are so you're not going to try and offer a different sort of about kind of fair trial that define turning and expect in the mainland turn on the mainland if there is no guarantee that there will be the minimum requirements of article 14 of i.c. c.p.o. it is written in the law there then the court has no business ordering a extradition even if a court order all the next edition the chief executive will veto it because as i keep repeating the telling you that achieve it say it has no power to order extradition but has power to veto an order for extradition are you following that unlikely the chief executive is unlike one to do so i request from china based on what factors say those are like she's an appointee of china so isn't she so she got

to stand up to china suddenly and say this is what this is are not go through lease on what basis do you say that she would not do that based on human rights record in china as a civil and she would have got it right so shiela for that alternative for years ago to china has she however all of the initial decision of any suspect to china has she you're told me will you tell me i don't know you know i don't mean by that has not been a single occasion that that happened we're talking about when it does happen notice i'm not going to talk about when your start all prevents us from doing song did you read the you. latest human rights reports about what happens in italy u.k. report in 2011 i'm asking about the huge rachel real u.k. report 2011 i must go by you ladies we have one right as you point commission says that it is paramount that you should respect each member states judicial system even where there are civil and political rights and don't use the road you know in china no the continuing to gentian

a child of human rights all i also want to say is i'm telling you both in the u.n. resolution and in the u.k. report in 2011 made it very clearly that protection of human rights and extradition are not mutually exclusive that is why that you've got to frame your legal regime in the way that hong kong is doing to ensure and the gate keeping is in the local judiciary not anywhere else in the world to ensure that any suspect any of fender would be entitled to fair trial and protection of human rights when the extradition is being carried out that is the way in which all extradition arrangements mr truck . is being carried out the well over such an old country is different mr tung what expectation can there be of a fair trial in china when civil and political rights according to the latest british human rights and democracy report i don't want is our chance of rights

continue to be eroded can i just read what they said the continuing detention and trials of human rights lawyers and defenders lack of due process and judicial transparency remained important concerns i don't want to sound 1st ok how can you have how can you have an expectation of a fair trial for anybody that is extradited i don't want us out of fences but how can anyone expect a fair trial to be had in syria iraq. we're not talking about syria no great talking about mainland china that is essential to me no it's not is the same of that just say it was just it's a china now it's a stick with china why do single china i'm told i'm asking is the whole point of the algorithms half the time but i've been talking. long it's only hong kong hong kong people will apply the same standard no matter who is coming to make the requests be it united case united states united kingdom syria russia china we apply the same standard because this is what the more requires us to do and we

would do it period once you understand the purpose of extradition you what others thought what i'm saying but obviously you don't you know what you want but your guest mr instead of throwing insults at me what's what's your guess about where this is headed with the hardliners in beijing try to teach hong kong a lesson you know or will they show that they're willing to learn from what's been ducking 1st of all the facts say that it did not come from mainland i think chivas negative is explained very clearly that it was her own initiative based on the fact that she was asked by the family of the girl who unfortunately was murdered by this hong kong person in taiwan because of the whole injustice of the situation the chief executive agreed to look into it and she was asked to to establish an extradition regime which can apply to taiwan applied to the rest of

the world which includes china but china is very exercised about what's been happening here it's called you to do right if you will direct challenge to no one country 2 systems if you were right china would not have permitted the chief executive to shelve the bill. rather long will that go on as far as this administration is concerned i understand that it's not going to come back period instead in the last few days or so it's just tell me right if what you say were true why would china do it. the fact is you don't know changes and it is i do i do more that you do otherwise you wonder how you come and ask people for fall for an interview would you in the last if you had all the answers you would have come to me in the last few days hmong the hong kong my association has called for a credible commission of inquiry not the police complaints council but a statutory independent body that can compel documents to be submitted and i must

this is a testify is that going to happen is they're going to be i'm not sure which events but aren't are not do you want it to happen because yes i you know i have make clear that i am going in good greenman with that request but the kapleau. of the eyepiece see the independent police complaints council has already. on a full inquiry there is only one investigation subject which is the police the police has already promised that they would comply with all requests and brought and provide for cooperation the government has made the same promise so that inquiry would be a very sufficient inquiry but if at the end of the day what was the protest nurse then said that's my solution come on we are going to matter so serious and this is not sufficient the only thing you're not you know what to say to quote a by association without looking at the facts and there's a difference we should say it's a look at a face look at the facts what you pay the bill hamas look at the facts and you have

to i don't know what i said let the market rubbish i've i didn't say that but i don't know what facts they looked at but i'm telling you what the facts are right now if at the end of the day the i.c. i.p.c.c. inquiry proved to be insufficient in adequate then of course we can look at to see whether there are other ways to implement or to improve what is being done but an inquiry is going to be carried out russell and also you want to read into what the hong kong government did or didn't do what that is being look how it failed to ever . body its own deficiencies no it's not the look down look as i independent does that story but it's going to change his ways to listen more and try to gauge more public opinion why didn't they listen to support it has listened before but this particular incident is consultation i'm already explained to you why that is so have you heard one of my explanation it was because that this

criminal was to be set free in september and his going to leave hong kong if there is no law in place that is the reason but and the only reason why they have been insufficient consultation were not the demands from the protesters i know what about it donna has already shell the bill that would be the end of it it would not come back right so it's finished it's finished its step and what about the demands from the protestors scrap the bill independent inquiry says cooler scrub independent inquiry into public or those already i c c c ministers and the arrested why why should there be a minister for the rest. isn't that erosion of the rule of law you've been telling me that the rule of law cannot be rhoda so you are now telling me i'm not telling you anything putting you are you on that demand your asking me about rule of law and your i mean why i thought he looked around and for crimes committed serious crime committed including we don't like that fine of course there is

a presumption of innocence isn't there have you have is there often a presumption of the reason i have gone that you've used tape if you watch a t.v. take there's also a presumption of innocence have you watched a t.v. tape yes i have watched t.v. so there's a person or people throwing bricks there is also a commercial innocent now but it isn't that if somebody has from a brick you're telling me they're guilty and even know you wait for me to answer you i mean why you've been so unfair why was i put in questions we'll tell you why i did because once of the question is are we on the fire about why my dentist to try to answer your question i'm asking you if those a clip which shows someone has thrown a brick that means somebody has committed an offense right now whether that person is rightly arrested or not is for the court to decide so you can say that somebody has been arrested that arrest must be wrong that isn't nothing to do a presumption of innocence you understand that i understand that mr time a few days ago you were warning and you were trying to evade the point mr the point

is that if you got somebody who'd been arrested let the court decide whether he was guilty or not by simply asking that you should let him go without going through a due process of the law is a stream erosion of the rule of law and you are seeing there how on your high horse and you're telling me that the bill is eroding the rule of law and yet you open it to me at the same time that freedom given freedom or letting their rest go free it's not erosion of the rule of law you holland how can you have such double standard you warned a few weeks ago a few days ago that if things got worse the chinese army might consider taking to the streets you said when there's trouble in hong kong when things turn sour there's violence in our street our fear is that if the police are not able to control what is happening here there's a remote risk the chinese army would get involved. how remote is that risk and if it so i hope i got you why did you mention it no i hope you will never happen why

did you mention if this is not finest you're trying to frighten people no it's a fact everybody understand it except you you don't understand it hong kong is a place where it has been operating is operating under the one country 2 systems it is a not very successfully is it is a huge political compromise we are part of china under the basic law china has a responsibility to ensure that hong kong is stable everybody who is doing business here want to see hong kong to be stable is a lot china has a responsibility to ensure that hong kong is stable everybody who is doing business here want to see hong kong to be stable all right so yes under the basic law there is provision for the the beijing government to interfere if nobody hoped that

it would happen i'm trying to say that we're trying to of avoid this happening so i'm not instilling fear into people i'm simply reflecting what is stated in the basic law and what is the political reality of the situation you said we need we in the midst of that perfectly responsible thing to do you said we need we in hong kong need to gain the trust and confidence of the aging so that they can allow us the freedom of political reform so what about the other way round what about beijing's duty to earn the trust of people in hong kong only one small ways where they have managed in a very successful they have one spot where 22 years they have managed its exams on about how unfair and they've been doing of their most to drive the opinion it was all show the people do not do the majority of people still do not identify as just they're going to face all damaging except what i work on isn't. everybody got to work harder you think the people of hong kong should play nice to their masters in beijing and they might throw them a few crumbs i do you know. the words the words i use is that we should communicate

with each other and we should instill confidence in each other that's what i'm saying you know understand the difference. well he told me good to have your conflicts of. the be.

searching for identity and recognition. of turkish citizens with african troops. their forebears were brought to the ottoman empire as slaves to the b. even today their descendants are treated like outsiders above no they're demanding

change the boogieman just want to live. shoot a full but dangerous. play it starts with a crime doesn't let rick shock the burning feet. jellyfish populations are booming but these creatures can be harmful even lethal to humans and sea life alike . can anything be done to stop the jellyfish on the rocks. stay up to date don't miss our highlights w. program online w dot com highlights.

the tumbling dice and fires came from jurors or dealing with a new ad i killed many civilians. coming clearing my father while. i was a student i wanted to build a life for myself like this totally but suddenly life became alledge kind of sob. providing insights global news that matters d. w. made for mines. what secrets lie behind these moments. find out in an immersive experience and explore fascinating world cultural heritage sites. d w world heritage for 60 get a. look closely. carefully. to suit. this to be

a good. match. discovered the way. subscribe to the documentary on you tube. an airstrike on a syrian hospital in the rebel stronghold of it live has killed at least 6 people rescue workers known as the white helmet say the facility is now out of service fighting in syria's northwest is grinding on while the asset regime negotiates with the united nations over a possible peace process. thousands of people in brazil have demonstrated against

a pension reform bill which congress says overwhelmingly backed the.