thanks for. speaking the truth. that matters w. made for mines. welcome to. the european union is heading into a decisive week as its parliament prepares to vote on the most important posts in brussels breaking with decades of male dominance heads of key member states have nominated 2 women for top positions with current german defense minister. as president of the commission and i.m.f. chief christine legarde as future president of the european central bank but

critics say those choices reflect back room power politics and they're threatening to torpedo the nominations with the e.u. facing pressing challenges strong leadership is more important than ever will it emerge from a process with democratic deficit e.u. top jobs instead of inspiration that's our topic and here are our guests it's a pleasure to welcome. she is a freelance journalist originally from france who works with us here at the as well as for french print and broadcast media she says the scramble for the e.u.'s top jobs further highlights discrepancies between the member states and damages the union. for the german council on foreign relations he says the visit a group of eastern european countries has maneuvered itself into a corner their lack of representation in top you jobs is missing. if it can problem

of cohesion it will come back to haunt the region and it's a pleasure to welcome tom not told he is the berlin correspondent for the british weekly the economist he thinks it was an old fashioned franco german backroom staff with all the tough jobs going to old europe but it's also highlighted a subtle shift in power away from uncle americal and toward emmanuelle kong. so tom let's start with that backroom stitcher as you call it actually there were official candidates for these positions there were rallies there were election posters there were t.v. debates or still a funded lion who is now nominated for the presidency of the commission was not in any of those so what's going on here it's funny isn't it i mean on the line has been on a charm offensive in the european parliament recently trying to convince all of the political groupings that they want to vote for her to confirm the position of the

european commission and of course that grilling her on all sorts of things from climate change to defense to economic policy and she has to invent a program almost out of thin air because as you say she was not a named candidate before the election what happened was there was this idea of so-called spits lead candidates each of those political groupings proposed a candidate for the president of the commission before the elections the idea being that voters would have an idea of who they wanted to see as president of the european commission the problem is it is the leaders the heads of government in the european union who nominate the president of the commission and not very many of them like the idea of handing power to the european parliament in that way and so when they met the name then nominee a couple of weeks ago the various candidates that have been proposed as part of this is them one by one were rejected and they ended up with as i say this frank a stitch up and live on the line currently the defense minister here in germany proposed as president of the commission. thank you very much that was

a very concise explanation. certainly geographic blocks were a big part of this backroom power deal eastern european leaders did all they could to torpedo one of the lead candidates why 1st of all we should not group comprising poland hungary to republish the lucky is not the old eastern europe or new member states but they are the ones that are the organize themselves and they didn't like propose candidate who was beaten counted out of the socialist group from 3 months because they told he's too divisive now the position of the sugar of the group was shaped especially by poland and hungary which are the 2 countries that are under the art so-called article 7. sanction procedure for breaching group of law and basic values of the e.u. in the outgoing european commission france 2 more months as the 1st vice president was in charge of this procedure the very streets and counted out for the s.p.d.

it was the one who had made trouble for these are easy so in the 1st reading this was a payback time. at the same time i think there was a deeper political message behind these 2 countries poland hungary and their nationalist conservative governments one to one thing from brussels 1st to be left alone or they are pushing a different vision of the e.u. than the is proposed by many mainstream parties d.-u. level of the political groupings and that is namely the europe of the nation so nation states should be a building blocks and european institutions including the next commission should leave us alone to do our own thing therefore france 3 months also if you look at their interest was too much to swallow and i think also he was too divisive candidate in those relations also for the other eastern european countries and just explain to me very briefly because your opening statement said that the vision god group had maneuvered themselves into

a corner but in fact haven't they demonstrated how much power they can wield in the 1st round they wear proudly boasting that they blocked france 3 months i think it was more complicated in fact they took the blame or they claim the this does this blocking power but in fact france 3 months was also a main political grouping european peoples party by them but they will be blamed this will be remembered and i think it's not clear what they got in return in the 2nd round so now one understands better emanuel. voted for parties with like he say people on posters but other ties to them like we are the candidates like i am by the back was setting himself some kind of p.p. group so not european people's party conservative party actually so logically he should have been nominated as the member of the group which has. been most votes.

he should have been nominated i know what happened if dr politics where leaders decided. between themselves who they wanted all not wanted as. european commission president and that is not the will of the people so there is a huge disk discrepancy between what was advertised on paper what people voted for i mean those who had enough interest to go voting and what is happening right now which is the same old fashioned politics between leaders and mostly between french france and germany we have to say that thanks to the same politics that people don't believe in anymore time does the fact that the deal was put together by heads of state member countries show us that in the end the commission and the parliamentary assembly paper tigers. i won't go that far in fact i think you can look at it another way i think one reason why this matters so much the heads of

state is because the european commission in certain respects is a rather powerful body european parliament has accrued more and more powers ever since it became an independent elected body in 1979 that said it is clear that a lot of the leaders want to keep the commission on a fairly tight leash one of the things that emerged has been discussed so much since this big summit a couple of weeks ago is that not only was on the line herself chosen by the leaders but as part of the overall package which i think we're going to go on to discuss not only what other top jobs discussed but some of the 2nd tier jobs were discussed and in particular vice presidents of the european commission the leaders decided among themselves that a couple of names including funds to members who were discussing before will be vice presidents of the commission that that is a job that is a decision that the supposed to be in the gift of the president to choose their own vice presidents the fact that the heads of government which is in themselves tells

you quite a lot about how important it is for them to retain control of the process so given the democratic deficits that you've all identified would you if you were a member of. the european parliament and next tuesday when the vote comes up would you vote. in or out would you essentially punish the leaders for doing this backroom deal yes or no vote in or out. voted yes because i don't believe it's because i would vote yes simply because what is the plan b was still at a candidate and how do we renegotiate like these jobs or do we have to reopen the whole package the whole package has already been decided so in order to actually do that yes. but i would vote yes as well and so the reasons that both milan emanuel gave i also don't agree with the base and kind of doesn't system although i wouldn't vote yes to stick it to them i think the sort of on the line is a better candidate the mountain view would have been but it is also true that if.

she if she is to be rejected in the european parliament that would create an unprecedented constitutional crisis within the e.u. between its institutions i don't think anybody wants that so next tuesday we'll know whether your opinions were briefed of the way that any piece think let us now take a closer look at ursula fund and christine legarde assuming that the parliament does approve them the top post will include more women than ever before. as she enters the race to become the president of the european commission ursula from the line is under political fire the german minister of defense leaves behind an army that's in a person 8. qualified medical doctors image as a feisty reformer has taken a knock but her supporters point out that the mother of 7 is a staunch european is known brussels since her childhood has a good network and is fluent in french and english as well as german.

christine legarde is the grand dame of french politics a 63 year old economist has run the international monetary fund for 8 years monitor rising it without causing a fuss but also not shying away from criticizing u.s. president donald trump 1st trade policies. legard is considered a supporter of redistribution within the eurozone at the expense of richer states and an opponent of tough austerity policies. will women's power drive europe forward. the funding lion has been in brussels the last few days courting europe the members of the european parliament how does she do. i'm not in brussels i don't know but i think she is doing a stone just that she is building a program from to their very fast she has a team behind her she needs to be a consensus to be confirmed next week interestingly enough she does have the

backing of some of those eastern european leaders we've been talking about and also the populist leader in italy what does that tell us. she's more known and more positively known politician in the sensors in europe than many others as a minister of defense she tried to forge a common line between the your nato. and basically i think position on germany in central eastern europe is more. balance than it was before even a writer except a german many of these leaders would rather accept a german conservative candidate at the top job at european commission then a socialist dutch person because there was a perception that. even 10 years 15 years off the source 15 years after that your lodgment some countries regardless of they do at home are treated as

a 2nd class or as badly admitted and all accepted and many divisive issues and there are many in the e.u. they won't they were been the end to be included into policy making and they feel there is a feeling not only on behalf of these controversial governments and the hungry that have problem with rule of law but by others that. will include their view their views and interest and preferences more than for instance france demands what. you said in your opening statement that that there is a discrepancy between different countries that's reflected in the still interesting lee enough our report reflected a discrepancy in the way that a funded lion is perceived here in germany as opposed to abroad so maybe you can say a word about why that is and what your take on her qualifications is whether you think she would be a good candidate to lead the commission so there's an irony in that when the

european council the collection of has taken government voted on this the one leader who didn't vote in support of the line was angela merkel she abstained and there's a reason for that which is that coalition partner the s.p.d. the social democrats. rejects the idea of underlines commission president in germany when the coalition partners disagree then in european discussions the relative relevant minister in this case has to abstain the s.p.d. a taking a very very tough line on this mean of course or it. comes from a different party they also consider that. they are upset that the spits and condit often system was jettisoned in this instance but i think there's more to it than that this is about german domestic coalition politics this is an extremely awkward coupling now between the c.d.u. in the s.p.d. the s.p.d. who are. leaderless very very unpopular in the polls they need to take every

opportunity that they have to show that they can stand against the c.d.u. to demonstrate to their supporters that they still have an independent spirit and i think that is what this is about so leaving that domestic tiff aside what do you think about fonda line which should be a good president for the commission. i think the jury is out in some respects i think she will be good she has a good network she is well respected across europe as well as in america she has strong experience in some of the areas that are going to count for the next 5 years most obviously defense you've been defense minister in germany for some time but i think there are plenty of reasons to worry she does she unlike almost every previous commission president she's not been head to state or of or government because she doesn't have any particular experience an economic policy that could be a big issue for the next commission president and what she used to be considered as a possible successor to angela merkel some years ago that notion has disappeared now i think it's largely because the line was not able to build

a support base for herself inside the christian democratic union and when you're president of the european commission where you're constrained by different opinions by different governments all the time it's very important to be able to build alliances and i think the question of whether she is able to do that remains very open in many ways while it has been generating some mixed reviews there's been a lot of positive buzz around the nomination of christine lagarde would you say that this represents this deal that was done does this represent a shift in the balance of power away from germany and toward france i think both women definitely bring in the game changing approach to. 2 to brussels. is that her dad did that and advantage of friends now like ok and i'm a kind of stained from voting but she actually nominated also have government since

2005 this is one of her close us i'm going to america. on her last mandate as a german chancellor and with the has seizures just currently experiencing we don't know how much longer she will be around and she just placed probably how close us president of the e.u. commission so i know mark on didn't want and he got his way with the nomination of . but i don't think france is taking any advantage on the germans they would be the 1st time since the sixty's germany would have european commission president so i think it's a winning situation for both of those countries and perhaps that ferment out to any other country and you know let me briefly ask you tom to comment on where you think christine lagarde might take european monetary policy and where you whether you see a shift of direction there away from german austerity and toward more burden sharing between the rich north and the indebted southern european countries that's

certainly something that france has passed pushed for in the past are we likely to see look our go in that direction we don't know that she is not an economist she has no experience in a central bank which is why for some people this was such an unexpected nomination an unusual one what we do know is that she has been largely supportive of the fairly accommodative monetary policy pursued by the current president mario draghi . i think the question is going to be to what extent she is able to use the bully pulpit of this job to be able to encourage countries particularly germany to be a little bit more less fiscally restrictive now of course it's not up to the president of the european central bank to determine how governments spend their money but mario draghi regularly beat the drum for country. that had what he called fiscal space like germany which has a big surplus to spend more christine the god i think from what we can tell during her time at the helm of the i.m.f. is largely going to be supportive of that she moved the i.m.f.

away from its previous position on. fiscal policy so i think we will probably see continuity that the question is how successful will she be in deploying her political abilities rather than her economic or technical ones to be able to convince those governments to do more i think there would be an interesting agenda on her behalf and that is contributing to building up the eurozone as an institution the way and building up euro as a currency is trying to think that if that takes place within the next 5 years which is a monday that i think then it would also create more differentiation within forces eastern europe between the eurozone member states mostly small countries the baltics slovakia's linea and the rest of eastern europe which is less integrated economically and and want to and financially we do you and this is where i think french president michel wants to move the e.u. and germany was as if they think so that they are not true with the eastern

europeans by you know celebrating this package. whether they know what they what they will get you know their. head i'm going to stop you right there because i want to bring in a very brief report to look at the pressing challenges that in fact europe is facing it's very clear that we need strong leadership in europe as the e.u. most forward to to deal with challenges that actually demand multilateral solutions . the 1st test will be briggs it. britain is currently set to leave the european union at the end of october the new prime minister whether boris johnson or germany hunt will call them brussels to renegotiate. the question is how britain and the other $27.00 states of the e.u. come to terms both socially and economically after brags that. the trade disputes with the u.s. and china it's very possible that u.s.

president donald trump will carry out a stretch to impose tariffs on european goods this would do considerable damage to the e.u. economy. migration from africa and the middle east. even though there's a common e.u. asylum system it's really uncertain eastern european states refuse to take an asylum seekers. the european union is threatened from within by the ryans of right wing populism in many member states. is the e.u. prepared for so many challenges. ok briefly one word answer what do you eat as the biggest challenge facing the e.u. emmanuelle my. tongue the question of european sovereignty and how it's maintained in an increasingly antagonistic relationship between the us and china. for me it's unity and cohesion and how we hope that you system will be able to work on that

this very fragmented political arrangement in brussels ok so that one takes us to some degree toward the brics the question and the question again of many countries and right wing populist looking toward more nation state power rather than less what do you think could unearth of the fund and perhaps supported by christine legarde a central bank governor face that challenge of rising nationalism and of pushback against multilateralism. well that challenge comes from both sides externally from the u. . and internally there is. a less. capacity to agree on some issues in foreign policy like sanctions on china because chinese are very active internally. and they are buying countries that when they invest

it's greece is one example there they are trying to be friends they walked on hungary for that matter and germany proposed an idea of a shift in the foreign policy mechanism to a qualified majority vote which is a no go for many countries i think this is a big challenge for the new how to present that they for foreign policy. especially foreign minister will support l. . and the basic problem is that the e.u. system was built to pacify you problems and challenges internally rather than to represent europe and externally on the global on the global level and this is where the challenges will come in many ways you mentioned migration there has been a lot of pushback exactly from the eastern european countries on that would you say that the fund can bring a multilateral workable solution forward briefly he doesn't she doesn't has the search area to to to to lead that fight it's actually

a fight we are witnessing we cannot close borders where there are no borders there are graphic 0 places where migrants are actually dying i see those migrants are sort of human beings they're asked is thinking we have to find a solution europe wasn't built on the values of closing doors to people in distress and she has to address that i think the means to do so and tom finally that tech cold war us versus china can these women and the others who've been nominated can they really ensure a place for europe at the table or the current president of the. worth being commissioned actually it's handle donald trump well the european commission has an awful lot of clout when it comes to trade it is legally mandated to negotiate on behalf of the member states i think is very much an open question whether the line would do the same thing it's possible that pulse is just a defense minister might come to a halt like there's nothing that donald trump likes better than bashing german defense forces thank you very much to all of you for being with us and thanks to

you out there for being with us as well we do go into our summer break now but we look forward to seeing you back here with country when we start up again at the end of the summer see you down.

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