and then. time went on and the next the last communication had from them was in 1942 my father wrote on the 19th of july tell me that there were leaving call them. on the all we knew they were going to the east no detail. we know now that they went to extermination camp. but this i didn't find out absolutely years ago. and you live with it nothing you can do about. it but at the same time to see what's up when you think what's happening here what's happening in the whole of europe and all these various countries where the right wing is coming up again i remember that i do remember when my parents in those with the at the old system told about hitler was just mad can't last for 5 years. got it lost and he

created. what we know was what happened with the end result was that it did happen and i'm afraid it's going to happen i don't know i hope not thank you. thank and if he thought. the film reality. shows things in a different light. picture. it invented the scene in season dissolving space into endless lists of one of the greatest artists of our time james to ask our guest on the. next d w.

to evaluate. the primate capital of the world. you go to this forest national talking is hidden deep in the jungle. in a strange and ensure the survival of i'm tired of preaching. the concept for success. stories i'm. 60 minutes. every journey begins with the 1st step and every language but the 1st word published in the. greek opens in germany to learn german and why not play with him it's simple online on your mobile and free shots of d w z e learning course nikos fake german made easy.

you know life is something that is important to earth physically. literal but it's true for you. 3 or 4 awarded for. writing and might have those readers. who don't think of it that way. at the beginning and the end of everything there is light. and god said let there be light and there was light. the light the crowning achievement of creation represents consciousness without light there is no vision without light there is no light without light there is no art thanks.

james to rail uses light to create art to rail is not a god but many consider him one of our greatest contemporary artists his works don't simply make use of light they are light itself. these installations bay the viewer in light. you lose your orientation as. outlines disappear. everything dissolves into color. 3 you're going to museum in body is hosting a retrospective the largest ever seen in europe. seldom gives interviews but at the

museum. 75 years old now he rarely travels to these kinds of exhibitions which are held all over the world. our conversation focused on the main theme of his work the secrets of light. mist that are out when and how did you 1st realize that the world is all about flights i don't know the very can tell you anything about religion or or science but i do know that you know a lot of words about life if you look at just the history of art in our you know our culture. is littered with people who are depicting light in amazing ways and using it for the staging of the drama of of our living and what we do rather than depicted i wanted to use light itself but that may be made for some sort of staging and certainly more installation kinds of work and she said to your enough to depicting life the work is lights and could you explain the difference i like that

quality of it which has to do with the title of the show the substance of light the thing the sublight we're talking about actually light being a thing. a substance. i may have fusion is here where you realize in order to see the walls which you can see you're looking through something and the slight residing in the space is no different than say walking through the forest and you see a beam of light come down that illuminates the atmosphere the air and nuff that you see this beamed in in space and we're not just seeing it on the surface of the of the ground or things like that but you actually are seeing this light it's actually inhabiting space. james to real shows us how do you like from a different perspective light is to him what paint is to

a painter it's raw material. that was some difficulty because you know with light you don't form that's like clay with the hands you don't carve it away like. you know wood or stone you actually have to build it almost like you do with music so you have to make instruments it does that. there are times in your apartment you can play well wagner is a good example you play this music and suddenly the. space sure it is much larger. sound and here like extends a space. that's what you're building your building with kind of space making material.

james to rails art can be both bewildering and moving is something you experience. at 1st glance this may seem like a projected image but means in fact a space guns felt. you were is are gradually drawn into the space and they begin to wonder where my. hand where am i. and let's take a look at the ganzfeld series for instance and there's no focus really just no object or you or the other for interest in the object. yet it's interesting what's

what are we left with when there is no no focus mall or for no no focus no object no thing and basically we're we're entering this new. landscape which is the landscape with horizon and you see that when you get the white out while skiing you can see it. all flying when you enter the cloud and after gauging instrument flying. also when you dive there are times when you don't know where that you know which way is up is just by watching your bubbles.

and we are entering this new realm now and we're learning to navigate it so i'm very interested in this new landscape and how we feel within it and how the light helps to build that space but what do you think what are we going to find out about ourselves in that new space. well for us well just balance is interesting because we use horizon so much for balance. and even on a boat you know you get seasick if you go down below and you don't have a rising you come up with on deck and you look at horizon you can study the stomach more easily so that we have been for a long time using this idea of horizon if you're a pilot and you do aerobatics at 1st you can feel this it deliberate and then. this actually. charges here you actually want to experience that you want to feel

that it actually as a good feeling and that's when you know that you're you're beginning to be able to navigate this this realm this new realm he said that i am the object in your work and how do i see myself seeing how does that work well you are literally investigating your your scene and it's not so much my seeing that i present to you and then you can go and. with that knowledge put it into your saying this is actually it's about you're seeing correctly as you experience it so you get a chance to discover it for yourself it's not a discovery of mine so much as it is becomes your discovery that's what i hope anyway. james trail is also an experienced pilot and he made a key just covering one day while flying he became aware of the majestic scope and

beauty of the sky. he has created sky escapes all over the world. these chambers provide viewers with a new visual perspective on the heavens the universe and eternity. this is the museum in the n.d.s. mountains of argentina it was funded by the swiss entrepreneur and arts patron donald hess. the museum stands 2300 meters above sea level fully isolated from the rest of the world. in this place nature often stages its own light shows. when did you really fall in love with the sky as a pilot well certainly as opposed to because. those who supports you and

i mean it is this atmosphere that you are swimming in and of course it is life like water it is the who has substance and it has changes as you see whether come or light involved with that atmosphere and that's what fish are quite beautiful and people experience that coming over from the u.s. to europe as you wake up and you go into the the morning that you're headed in to her suppose you're up there with the best seat in the house. and but yours is good enough i mean off to the side it really is amazing what happens as you approach the continent here and so i've always enjoyed that flight and you say that you can even change the color of the sky and how do you do that i'm not changing the color of the sky but i'm changing your context a vision which give you a different color to sky to make it any color you like and some of these very

spaces but. that has more to do with you know how we form our perception of me we the sky is blue because we have give it that color we awarded that color because we do that means that and then we can change it so. that's not difficult to do. but i mean the people are surprised by that because it's essentially we feel we receive everything. that we're not a part of that we behold and we're definitely a part of that we behold so and that's one thing the artist can do is sort of give you the general cohen to tell you well you know you're making this reality within which you live so it's nice to be aware of it. and it was from the air the james to reel discovered what would become his greatest artistic achievement. this is the rodent crater in arizona.

derailed his bills a kind of observatory inside the crater complete with underground shafts and tunnels he's been working on this project for for decades and it's still not complete here charlie experiments not only with lights but also with sound and acoustics. the spaces are sensitive to light and sound. it's almost. difficult to make them without because once you make the sensor if you like. it's very bright to start so you can pick a new car you can take you get. a visit to the crater is an experience that almost overwhelms the senses. so this is something where you were within the earth but above it and so this you know taking self into this in the

sky is something very very interesting you know all the faces i may have access to this try to write a book. and you know one of things we rarely do is if you are in new york and you watch people from just a 2nd for hardly anybody looks up. it's a mess so part of this is just sort of redirect your version and also very few realize there's that whole world that's above us and that we have access to it. today to real lives and works in flagstaff arizona a town with a population of about 65000. well hell that. it's kind of. flagstaff is cold in winter and hot in summer. james terrelle was born in los angeles california about 600 kilometers west of here. oh i guess that

i'm. doing fine. i think there must be something special about the life of california how did you perceive flied when you were a child. well children oriental light and you do that in the crib or me here you will look to it and something that really helps or into this.