$3000.00 talked to a team of british researchers who took up the mystic. getting better. question for. starters august 19th. there was a deal and there was not something that you can choose like this and like that hopefully. it's not cooperation that the expense of principle not at all fixing the principle by talking to each other the european union is about to go on summer vacation but not before it's heads of government have carved up some of the top jobs in late night sessions but frankly with very little transparency my guess this week here in brussels is an. m.e.p. for germany's ruling christian democrats want to happen so all those promises about

more democracy and greater openness. and welcome to. europeans were told that the elections this year that the more democracy more transparency didn't work out that way did it but no i don't agree i think 200000000000 people have been participating in elections a very positive result the top jobs were carved up in the kind of backroom stitched up that people were told wasn't going to happen again and it did it did despite all these promises why you let the voters than not i mean 1st of all why do you speak about the backroom deal i mean it was so transparent and all the process of the names in the game i think it was very very important to the outgoing commission president he called it not very transparent quite an indictment from the. it wasn't

it's true but i don't have to agree with him on this point i think it's not the best process but it's the pros at this is in the treaties so it might be true that in the follow up to the election there have been some misunderstandings and also in the process to the election but the treaty process has been kept and therefore there is no back door the door whatever i think it has been quite transparent but i think we can improve but you know the u.k. has no written constitution and everyone knows what the continuation is the european union has a treaty and we have to stick to the treaty so i think if we want a change in the u.k. for comparison here but one of the basic criteria set themselves leaders set themselves was regional balance and all 4 of the top e.u. jobs went to people from western europe france and germany shared the 2 most important jobs commission and the e.c.b. why because europe still it's like europe still works best if france and germany find a very strong common commitment and i think the prove is that what you have described

there is a very strong commitment germany is going to take. in the strongest countries very democratic that's not the that's not the whole story i think the here's part of the story it's a major part of the story yes part of the story is that france and germany have been a berry have been having a very strong commitment together which is implemented in these 2 positions but as well there was a very strong commitment of the eastern region states that wanted to do too bad another candidate they had a brother destructive approach to the process and there are successful because mr timmons is not the commission president now you may like of this like it but they had their say as well and the distribution of the other posts has been done on a made female basis on the other considerations but i think the east has this time not had a constructive approach to the setting of the people and that's the reason why they are not there in germany the 2 ruling parties slant to their worst national election results the 2nd world war and then france. beaten into 2nd place

by marion le pen and yet they still decided on the job again no reflection on the votes that were actually cast by the europeans them selves nothing for the greens who did spectacularly well nothing for the far right euro skeptics who did better than they had done before and that's democracy for you now democracy is about majorities you know in democracy to doesn't help you if you are right you have to get majorities and the majorities are in the certain way implemented with that so what is the negative side of the good us speaking about the greens how can it happen that no government wants to propose a green commissioner it's up to the governments to propose commissioners and therefore we have to see as to whether there are governments that would like to do so now in future at the moment looks rather awkward and the far right is definitely a movement that in some countries has had a lot of support but not the support needed to find a majority that's the way this in a democracy isn't it you told a newspaper the british that everyone was satisfied with the deal so in this

council i said in the allowance or in the council but in the political groupings they weren't satisfied at all particularly in your grouping the european people's party the spokesman gonzales points attacked the way the appointments were made i'm not going to congratulate the council he doesn't have the right to ignore all the candidates that have been voted for by european citizens this is not democracy major view from major party same with the leader of the 2nd largest group the center left socialist same with the leader of the liberal review europe set up by himself. nobody else was the leaders may have satisfied themselves with their late night sessions but. i mean there is one point where i would not agree with it's still very clearly democracy at the fight in him ocracy is between counsel in this term and the parliament in the parliament was not strong enough to go for a real fight and to end it with the council and that's the truth but it's democracy and it's the light of the treaties that has been followed so i think that i'm ok

with it and the complaints you dismiss as crocodile it doesn't help crying crocodile tears we have a fundamental problem in the you to which no satisfactory answer has yet been found there is actually a perfectly satisfactory so that's to listen to the voters yeah but the voters if you will listen really to them in the going to do in a lot of member states they haven't been that perfectly at ease with this kind of doubt and process but nonetheless i still believe and most of my colleagues in the parliament believe that this kind of doubt and poses the most easy tool the easiest tool to reach more democracy without changing the treaties so the question for us will be next time and we are all together also with our with our development would be able to do a little bit of that's good candidates did an excellent job and we are together the next time we want to improve this but we have to take the momentum next time to be more intelligent also against the council to win this battle which in a normal democracy is something that you have also to face and to wait for the

right moment to change a process that has been different in the past you know because the voters are satisfied with the way it went this time you know the voters out there are very disappointed very disappointed and it was supposed to be about them you were seeing the turnout every single election since the european election started and this was the big push to rope more people in because they were going to be listened to and they weren't. yes i mean the call it's a this is a big failure whichever way you like to spin it but it is a big i mean the publication of democracy representative democracy is what i'm talking about but the participation in the european elections has been raised also because of the better understanding of the citizens about the need of the because the expectation they might actually be listened to that's why they voted i thought i told you i was going to be different i mean i mean we have to separate one from the other i think there is on the one side a clear effect that people better understand the need of the european union and for bad reasons they went to vote but there is on the other side as well especially in

some countries like the netherlands germany and austria a strong support for the idea of some kind of that and a more democratic european union but that process hasn't stopped we want to continue this and next time we will do better to win that battle that we had with the council that this time was strong in your native germany a poll by the broadcaster showed that more than half the people 56 percent don't agree at all with the appointment of those 11 the lion as the new commission president another poll for those people found that she was the 2nd most unpopular minister in germany so don't listen to the people. now but europe is not only about germany it's true that we see the us use who we are very sad that mr weaver hasn't got the chance to be the commission president and we are also disappointed how the councilors play that out but these statistics that you are showing are from germany and germany is not the whole of europe and in europe as a whole the result would be a little bit different so we have to make sure that we convince all our neighbors about that process including france and we have to be next time more intelligent as

a parliament to play out that process better after you say it's not all about germany but you actually blamed the germany social democrats for the untransparent horse trading that took place you said that by not supporting the original candidate from the european people's party man they'd open the door for the council not consider any of the other so-called lead candidates but that's a pretty cheap political. point isn't it the idea that the council of europe took its lead from the attitude of germany's s.p.d. is ludicrous isn't it no i try to be very very honest and very clear about it it was obvious from the very 1st moment that on monday after the election the council wanted to make the 1st meeting to overturn in a certain way the parliament's bill this wasn't that easy as some in the council have sought but it was many i missed your macro and others you know and there are going to accept and others not only him so not only s.p.d. and others but usually in the parliament and that was the point i was referring to in that interview that you are citing if the very strong enough in the parliament

to say at the very 1st moment that the lead candidate from the group who has the most votes will be our candidate also for the council we could have one and use the protestant unity has been missed when the candidates you did in the choosing have any glittering qualifications that you were asked in the newspaper interview what. stood for and you replied for more security she's promoted deepening e.u. military cooperation she stands for a deeper cooperation of europeans in all fields of politics you meet it to point out that she leaves her job with her reputation in tatters because of her failure to maintain germany's armed forces at an active service level but kim you know that you've lost over that does move back now but i mean that was not a question the question was about europe and not about germany in germany is since she's not rich goods isn't she she arrives as damaged goods i wouldn't say she does have a larger intermodulation she did a marvelous job and she was presenting herself and we hope that she will lead the european commission in the next 5 years in

a very very good way we have no doubt about it resenting us and she did a lousy job was being defense minister of germany fell as minister of germany is a very difficult challenge all the time in the last life heart. she is still under investigation every 7 years of a child's and it's true there is a bunch of $150000000.00 euros for which only $2000000.00 euros are actually put out there is an investigation and we have to wait what the outcome will be but there is no outcome we cannot judge on this so she's tainted isn't she she's already taken it what is the investigation finds against that you've got a commission president who's. a good knowledge as a failure there but people in building tell me that they know quite well the situation there has been a mistake in public procurement of a certain level but this was not a certain level that she has personally decided about so they will find that there was a mistake but not related to her and therefore i am not having that reflection that you have that we will find have to find a new president in the next weeks i think that the decision we did was the right decision now because europe has some any problems we have to face then we shouldn't

talk for long about the process and complain we should now take the next challenge and for the next election we have to make sure that we do it better from the alliance record is positively stellar that of years. i mean the spanish for a minister there to confirm from policy chief a man who was fined last year 30000 euros for insider trading of company shares in 2050 but is this really the best you could get. i mean in a package deal came you know that there is a package and there is a deal and there is not something that you can choose like this and like that oh please among 27 countries you couldn't find somebody who hadn't been convicted of any insider trading does that not matter does not parking tickets but late him you have been voting about also life on the brain as a present of the european commission and now all the commissioners all saw mr bell who will be probably the high representative they will have to go to a hearing in the parliament and he will grill them he will ask them all the questions we have and if they are not up for the top they will not find a majority so wait for the parliament to do its job i think we will check that very

well what these people that are presented to us has have as a so you're happy you're happy about his nomination that you have about every nomination won by the parliament will check these player standards so low that the man who was fined 30000 euros for insider trading is the best person europe europe can put forward for its top diplomat really i think tell me what tell me that should tell me i'm sure of him i mean you you are asking in one direction i have to of course i must say in one directions i have to sell your point has been the president of european parliament here is an outstanding experience in that area and the fact that you are referring to we will also ask about questions in the hearing of the parliament and you can be sure that you will want to know everything and if you are not satisfied he will not find a majority in that hearing that's very easy the foreign affairs committee will grill him on this you in the c.d.u. you sit in the european peoples party. you talk about human rights talk about civil

liberties but your party has repeatedly failed to take action against hunger is ruling party has a member of the p.p. despite clear indications that it was violating both the letter and principle of its obligations regarding the rule of law gives a slap on the wrist you suspended it not that it normally have been back to him but you know that we have been speaking very clearly with mr our man that we have in a certain number of areas not been. satisfied with his approach to the rule of law we have to say all you did was to suspend but you still get the seats but this was the main thing for the p.p. was needed to keep seats in the european family so they keep their power 5 over the appointments and i think that the majority was not depending on the few days but i have to come back to the point we have not only suspended him be also set up a real controlling institution under the heading of mr fein or a former president of the council to check together with hungary what they can improve for the rule of law and how they stick to that principle and if this

process is running bad they will be excluded so you just pass it from one committee to another how much more evidence do you need look at the charges against repeated allegations from respected human rights groups in the un about the serious and continue erosion of basic rights and hunger is government 2 years ago un special rapporteur warned that legal reforms in the country would lead to limitations on fundamental human rights including freedom of expression information religion privacy family life and the rights of minorities and that is not enough for you to do the decent thing which is to kick them out your party is gutless isn't it not but tim the problem in europe is if you kick someone out he or she will still be in the european union and that you have to talk to them so the approach we have taken as a people was to say listen there are problems we have to face them but we have to discuss about these problems in detail as we don't have to kick out anyone because they will remain a member of the european union so it doesn't help us if we are to share on

a member of the european union will have to remain a member of the european people's party as i told you before you don't have principles do you but we set up that process that we suspended their membership and that we had under the control of hamilton on per controlling to tuition that is now in talks with a hunger in government to check as to whether they can do better and if they don't they could be excluded from the you could have had warnings going back years now what do you mean do yes what does it take. for you to actually do the right thing and throw them out what does it take when they have to do a decision to cross you're ready p.-p. well there it is they don't want to make a decision they've delayed delayed and delayed but the challenge we are ahead of is the following we have been seeing also going to nation process for the president of the european commission that the eastern states are again regrouped by national ideas then by european ideas and that's a problem because if you all kick them out they will not be more european they will not be more sticking to these principles that we want to defend so we have to talk

to them why we believe that this principle are essential and we have to convince them that if you do it together it's better for all of us that's a burden some process and sometimes you can try and easily this for years tell me mr what is actually more important than preserving the basic rights of european citizens rights that have been continually threatened by the feeder's government over and over again what is more important to you than that the rights of the citizens are the cornerstone of the european union then when you are failing badly to protect them in hungary and chew with the p.p. is not responsible for the situation in hungary we have to deal with the hungary and government as a european union as the european parliament and we within the e.p. have to deal with a few this party but these are 2 different areas we in the e.p. peavy made a very clear decision in front of the election that we want to suspend their membership but we said we want to stay in touch because the problems have to be fixed they cannot be trust you can stand up the phone you don't have to have them in the middle of your party but then you have another then you have another discussion if you have them out of the party then it's

a rubber procedural and when you lose their seat do you really want to do that we haven't decided about the majority you know that exactly that the majority has been built differently so that's not the point to discuss about now no wonder no wonder people in europe are dissatisfied with the way business is conducted here pew survey in march showed that europeans view brussels as inefficient and out of touch an average of over 60 percent said the e.u. does not understand the need. of it's citizens clearly don't seem to prioritize human rights and fundamental rights over your procedures and but as you put it talking about apparently sincerely violates the frankly speaking the problem of these statistics is if you ask people where their wealth is coming from they won't say that it's part of the european union idea of open markets and the basic freedoms in the european union the problem is that that is a fair point the european union has a difficulty to communicate what we are all about and we are all about cooperation

even in fields of difficulty and does difficulties we should not try to fix by thorough not at the expense of principle not at all fixing the principle by talking to each others' talking to each other and explaining these are not going to get out there mr your party at home the c.d.u. has plenty of soul searching to do at the moment historic losses in the european elections down more than 6 points from 5 years ago and the party looks as will face a further drubbing in regional elections later this year we've got saxony brandenburg coming up why has one had the c.d.u. so visibly lost the trust of voters particularly the young voters. the 1st point is that our result in the european election was much better than a lot of people have expected but it's true that we have to fix his challenge better than expected it was part of the sea it was and you know you can spin this anywhere you like but that's you really clutching at straws trying to the point is

that stability as the seaview is it at the moment working on together with the s.p.d. in a big is a very burdensome concept which is not easy to be explained to the public in difficult times and we had quite a few massively lost among the only voters and the great crime karen bauer has enmity and the point with the young voters there are 2 issues where we have to work harder and this is the climate change and this is copyright and it was obvious that these processes both before the european elections haven't been something that young people felt close to the c.d.u. but we have understood the message and we will work hard on it to improve it your problem is that you're badly split also about what to do about the far right party and you not be are not split about that if you have a hope you have a centrist can you have the hard conservatives say all the time that a union the union of values but i mean these are few people you have people suggesting that you actually at some point break the ban and go into coalition the

d.f.t. but this is in this is in one land in the east of germany where some people are saying this but the clear position of the south would open the flood. the clear position of this if you would german right and we have even a party congress as resolutions on this is that we don't work together with far right people and there was no discussion deceive you about that in principle not at all and therefore this is not a point that you should really be concerned about there is no discussion about that what people should be concerned about is 14 years of cd which has seen a huge surge in rightwing radicalism on the streets of germany in social media and legislation is around the country as well as according to domestic intelligence $12700.00 right. when extremist capable of violence on your street that's something to be concerned about in germany these this isn't yes but for this we have federal institutions that go behind these people and the point is and that was their reaction wasn't great is the 1st part of your question was that why the

situation in germany is at the moment politically as it is and it's very clearly that grand coalitions have all the time in the middle of their times difficult public. because you know that you know i have the ball of security that's the key question we have that's the key question and the point that you are referring to with security it's an issue where on the right wing not only in germany and you know that very well populism is rising and that's a challenge we have really to have a very close eye on but we have in the german federal republic institutions that go behind these people and have no doubt that they will do their job even though there were some concerns in the last years there were more than concerns when the parliamentary committee reported that major mistakes had been made by the authorities is that supposed to give people confidence what's what's happened since those major mistakes i'm talking about the national socialist underground which murdered 10 people most of them immigrants documents went missing evidence was

destroyed should that give people confidence no i think what should people confidence is the fact that this has been very transparently discussed in a parliamentary committee as you have been saying also the institutions have done their changes that we are needed to this and have to task to fight radicalism on the right and on the left and i have no doubt especially after the experiences they went through that they will do that with all the power they have and that's what politicians and the society asks them can be no doubt we can't leave brussels without a mention of bracks it british newspapers suggesting in the last few days that there are new overtures being made to boris johnson this after the european union has stressed repeatedly that there is no reopening of the withdrawal agreement is the e.u. in the process of blinking at the 11th hour. no we have said and ordered off on the law and has repeatedly continued to say this we want to stay friends with our

british neighbors that's not easy in the current political debate especially not easy in the current debate in the u.k. but that's the principle we want to stick to but it's obvious that the treaty that we have been negotiating about me and to me government is the treated that is on the table and if you have new people now coming into the e.u. and you have a new person going into the city government but the principles behind that treaty don't change it's only the one of the 5 european countries including germany and france allegedly making contact with johnson in order to see what chance there is of a new deal you know as i said the principle that we are having all together and i think it's not only these 5 countries all countries in the european union wants to stay friends with our british neighbors so the point is that the basic principles of the treaty they are there they cannot be changed but for sure we have to stay in touch with boris johnson and whatever other candidate that may win this battle because we want to make sure that in the long run we stay friendly neighbors we will always be there close to each other and we cannot afford a situation where we are in

a bad mood hanging around together we have to face the future together even if they usually want a new overture from the doesn't in otherwise come october. you will both both the e.u. and britain will reach a scenario that none of you wanted none of you want ashing out without a deal exactly doesn't it doesn't say it's not. for the last 3 years it's your presumption that there will be maybe a crash out without the deal but it's not said the deal is on the table in the u.k. and the next prime minister can still subscribe to it all make propositions how we can improve it but despite what they've said and despite what he said as change came that's obvious in politics you can't in politics discuss about everything but you cannot change the principles of the treaty they must remain and the principles of the treaty are the basics of the treaty but what boris johnson or whatever candidate wants to do we have to see when they are in office and good to have you encountered so as a professional. thanks.

thanks. to. the touch.

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this is. in britain boris johnson takes over as prime minister and promises to deliver to fulfill the repeated promises of politicians to the people and come out to be e.u. oktober the 30. bots but with his country deeply divided can johnson succeed where to receive mail may did not go wide to london but for more also coming up tonight in the united states a contentious.