i don't think. it has something valid place to end up in which it happened thanks to you consider german culture looking at the stereotype if you think the future. if it is crown land yeah. it's all that good yeah. i'm rachel join me to meet the jam. post. do you think the rest of the world is really that stupid is he a crook cautious not cool and it's going to be rather uncomfortable for us to know it's not that old uncomfortable we will see who is less corrupted and who is better managing governing become from the time east european state of moldova has a new coalition government united it seems only in its dislike of the previous administration my guest this week here in the capital q c now is

a bloody tyree vice president of the outgoing democratic party and a former justice minister with moldova now a by word for corruption you see ashamed of peace party's record in government. which i will tell you welcome to conflict zone. and place to be here to discussions your party lost the battle to hold on to power but you deserve to lose the way didn't you because democracy was increasingly undermined under your watch and there was massive corruption which you did very little about so you deserved to go didn't you really it depends how to look at that and i would disagree with something related to decryption sput yes indeed i can say that we have lots of critics related to democracy tens. well over the democratic party's been and

while undertaking the mandate and governance in 2016 at youth a lot in social and economical performances being for example the salaries increased in the public area by 70 percent there are a salary still in the pensions of the last year you were sure in the world that the democratic party was implementing european standards at home that's what you said in september yes here europe was telling a completely different story about you the european parliament condemned what it called an increasing backsliding on core values related to democratic standards so much for your european standards and also added that moldova was trapped by oligarchic interests with economic and political power in the hands of a small group of people exerting their influence on parliament the government political parties state of ministration police and judiciary in other words your assurances about european standards were worthless well no i would disagree with

that because similar opinion this was a political statement and we can have different opinions here we respect this whole story because it has been done by a political group it was based on findings that they discovered when they came here many of the talks that they've been having a list again did you see did he show any on evaluation or a some some reports regarding to die because they haven't seen and everything that could be measured has been measured with a significant progresses bads that is that they want the view of the e.u. the council of europe freedom house the un the us state department amnesty international oh i see but those were the foundation there was remarkable unanimity about the state of democracy and corruption in this country from them wasn't but let me please explain otherwise if you want to hear me because while i would divide those changes. i would divide the corruption and i would divide the democracy why

because well talking about corruption since 2016 they were the most progress is that ever have been done in republic of lower in fighting corruption was the 1st cases where ministers the prime ministers and other very high officials have been prosecuted the u.s. court itself active justice now if selective just one we're talking about the ministers that were in our government i wouldn't say that it was selective because selective means then when you're prosecuting all everyone except your once but it wasn't the case and you also said you underminded the processes the judicial processes that's also a little view of the united states well it was some new shoes well but this is not related more than some issues is it still with i know i again there are difficulties in judicial system of course there are but while talking to corruption

this was the most fighting period in republic of moldova that's why according to the public perception corruption was the 1st one ranked problem in 2016 and it became the 5th one in 2019 due to the efforts that have been put fighting that in march washington's human rights report effectively highlighted what all the other international organizations have been saying they highlighted torture in your prisons arrest and detention by the authorities restrictions on freedom of the media and serious attacks on people who stood in the way of your party especially lawyers as one un special rapporteur reported lawyers faced politically motivated criminal charges or were threatened each time they defended people with opinions dissenting from the author or it is you were just dismissed and you signed off on this you were quite happy that should happen that these lawyers should be thrown.

well in. is very fashionable to start victimizing yourself understudying politics while you have some criminal cases on your side. because for example to do with the charges that well you have this exactly this exactly cases you're referring to 2 cases one of them is related to one attorney a woman that has been committed a crime murder in 191999 the other one is another lawyer they were just referring to 2 cases in situ cases they refer referring to a pattern the banana i know exactly the cases that they're reference to and the other case is this case of a lawyer reading koch who has committed bribes and traffic of influence before starting being the lawyer of one of the people that pretending to be politician so this is we're talking about 2 cases all of them committed crimes before starting

coming into the public area we have a lot of different cases to go through mr secretary why was the international community so keen on seeing you go on june the 14th the united states basically said it was pleased to see you go the state department spokesman said the u.s. welcomes the democratic party's announcement that it's withdrawing from government in favor of prime minister prime minister my son will and the coalition formed by the democratically elected parliament the fact is washington couldn't wait to get rid of you could and more importantly it wasn't going to lift a finger to save you was it well no one should place any fingers to save anyone politicians or the us it was a coalition created that were accepted at the final stage and we transferred the powers of the governments it is good the people to have the comparison of how the car country can be governed by ones and by the others it's good for us if you were here i willingly you gave up the rules of national press or you even got the

constitutional court to strip the president of his powers so that new elections could be called for september if we're talking about that is going to have to see how the. uncivil since the 7th of june and you'll see that we gave the power in a peaceful manner and we give it willingly and we may be the announcements for they said before transferring the power after trying to get the constitutional court to step in and call elections that's what you tried to do which isn't tied to step in any constitutional court or stuff like that because on monday already which was the 3rd day of that announcement of the constitutional court well ready to the decision to transfer the power and on tuesday which was the 4th day or we already announced that we are willing to stay to discuss how to transfer the power peacefully who trustingly rulings from your constitutional court these days after you stuffed it with your own people who trusts the constitutional court here most of the people

trust because initial court doesn't trust only the ones who doesn't don't like the decisions of that report last year the bottles when foundation said that the current justice system including the general prosecutor's office the supreme court the supreme judicial council and the national corruption center were largely subordinated to the oligarch vladimir plot look who just happens to be chairman of your democratic party although you tell me he's just a down he's just announced that he's lee he just announced the hurt but that's not a great record you want justice minister us allow that kind of state carry a play i think i didn't tell you i took the management of the minister of justice in 2015 and the end of the year and at that time already they were the statements that the state is captured by the way 2nd at that time already all the support of european union in that area has been refused or suspended i had the conditionality

to approve lots of the reforms in a very short time and i'd managed to do that in 2 years or even less and it was accepted and recognise. now we we have a legislation in the judiciary which is like a piece of the art we have a class of a lot of things to implement to work on training the new judges which have been renewed we have almost 5045 percent of the judge the new ones which came into the system but still we need to train them we need to create uniform practices in that respect and it cannot be done through the night it will take time down was to stop those who could do nation to the chairman of your party it was without burning has been foundation i would deserve a national attention i would disagree to you to make the assessments and the conclusions based on only on the statements of the parties that were on their position at the time it's not because of their own findings and it's because today

i international organizations today say the same thing today at 2 weeks time since the government has been transferred to the other parties i can say the judiciary is subordinated to the new government why very simple because it was sufficient a new prime minister to make some statements and of course have been changing their decisions immediately through the night if this is subordination then you have to accept that their subordinates to the new government as well they want to go we have heard that it depends how objective signs that the leaders are demanding a bt and of the judiciary is the author it is the lovely syria has been in forced by your polity using corrupt practices business clan ties and intimidation this was reported because those militias are not say on the phone well they got it wrong let's let's then break the law to religious and discuss that i misunderstood let's let's discuss that i just stated that the new government and they took the control

of the judicial rein said it's not so if they just made a statement but if they make the statement that you have to revise your decision and to decide like that and the court. immediately is doing that what does means if not subordination in your understanding. in more than 0 although you also watch and you watch mr chip with the politicize ation of the judiciary was an instrument which was often used against mr plow looks rival's that was the conclusion of the bertelsmann foundation i went from 271822800 thanks to your efforts miss world economic forum ranked moldova 100 and 32nd the other 137 countries as regards the independence of the judiciary are you proud of that record the new course here my i don't know i'm not but i what they can say is standard what they can tell you is that when we took the tradition i took the judiciary the trust of

the people in the jury sure was 7 percent and when i left my position of the ministry of justice was 25 percent yes this is not sufficient but in 2 years time to increase is 3 times it's something but they return the seattle little nancy hearty chairman knows who they gave their oil to the stronger that's what they said and that's wrong they misunderstood they just got it wrong they made up the story is that right is this what you're saying no i'm not saying that i'm just saying that i don't get it some are saying that we had a very poor situation which is not very fantastic today but it has registered a very good improvements in that respect you you deny any wrongdoing by the merits and i'm not i'm not saying that it's not correct just to state the wrongdoings but it is correct to see how the developments and evolution of all of that what about mr plan look you are probably ganji and can do so than 2016 that he was made the

most hated man in the country because people need to find somebody to blame that's it he's blameless no way no one is angel in my liver. iran the new governments even their world governments even democratic parties the members were not dangerous as no one is angel one likely to take we are committing mistake was he a crook is he a crook of course it's not a crook. of course it's not a crook it's a person that has ensured a good and efficient governance from the point of view of the social infrastructure problems yes maybe the party didn't focus too much on democracy and maybe the party didn't focus too much on implementing some reforms in like judiciary for example but what these done improving the life of the people is done a lot and even more than many other governments putting together for the last previous 20 years when the new government came in your party chief was the plan if

lead the country along with a business partner iran saw he was looking perhaps for friends outside but. he didn't find any duty to find any friends again i would disagree with his statement but because he left the country only after transferring peacefully they govern and studio to their position or to doubt it is excellent i don't know let's ask him i am not together said that neither the interior ministry nor the border have a record of him leaving the main is the the new minister of internal affairs made 3 different statements in just one week and all of them conflict in between each other so i would i wouldn't pay too much price to the statements that he made i understand that he is a new minister but he's committing too much mistaken and is misleading the public opinion in that respect probably isn't coming back you see it's over everyone's had enough of your part let's ask him let's ask him because he is your understanding

he's coming back my understanding is that he is coming back as long or when the security arrangements will be done including kurian although you refused for a week to give up your offices didn't use the officials you appointed refused to obey the new prime ministers we on the 3rd day we already announced for the accounting since 8 of june we're ready announced that we are willing to have discussions to transfer the governess so i would disagree for a runner you put your supporters into the square and there could have been massive violence because the chance for should be peaceful and now should be should be peaceful but it might not be and it was peaceful and tried to get into the offices you wouldn't let me i mean we know they didn't try even to get into the office some of them did now none of them he said none of them didn't try to get into the offices they just made some declarations yes different dates could probably tip a one week staying here in those very hard times to turn the stand the situation no

one tried and we made all the announcements and invitations to them to start talking and this was. it's almost over your time is over what means the governess is over it was over on 8 of june yes it's over the new government has promised they'll be no revenge i'm sure you really are already there they are already sure you are relieved to hear that millennial because this is helping them with their inquiries i'm sorry previous corruption is because they harassments public pressure and revenge already is there many of the people already are dismissed the professional people which has no links with the parties have been already dismissed from their positions but if you are there already come on this is a year of saying the u.s. senate was the only served to use the people that i think hearing on different reforms and different projects to manage and funding by our development partners their professional center dr nyce like that very thing you did don't they're going

to put a spotlight is everything to me let's put on the spotlight it's going to be rather uncomfortable for us and no it's not at all uncomfortable because i see many of the critics they have been done they're already coming to an out opinion because they they criticize not knowing or not going into the details of different projects or and reforms but we'll see what they will do and it's better to judge about them and us in comparison and we'll see when how the salaries will rise we'll see how the infrastructure projects will go on how the collections of the budget will be done and then we will see who is less corrupted and who is better managing and governing the country the challenge for this government is to dismantle your system of control over the courts and the criminal investigation bodies isn't it which you controlled basically and which were loyal to your party chairman from 26 dean.

transparency international reported your main aim was to concentrate your party's power within the executive criminal investigation bodies and courts it said are used by this party as instruments to intimidate and make loyal political rivals both at central and local level. so this practice is obvious particularly in relation to local councillors and mayors it said that up blackmailed and compelled to join the ruling party that was you i'm very happy that you are making reference to the specific report because usually takes time to to prepare a report and then to make it public and so as it is dated 2016 it means exactly that there all the data is collected in the previous periods so i will in that case i would just will restate that we took the governance in 2016 only and of course we recognize it was a loss of the problem and this is 27 serious reforms this is our only 17 report not

20 as you mentioned 16 i said from 2016 they said your main aim was this was a report 2 years ago when you were already in the justice department and here let's come to the flash mailing in compelling mayors and local councils to join the ruling party again your panero no fishel claims in that respect have been done or or submitted by anyone is just it's opposition's statement and speculations nothing has been confirmed in time do you think do you think the rest of the world is really that stupid know nothing coworker what's going on don't know what was happened just you were in just one thing just seen war the turn the stand the situation is better to have a more in-depth look at everything and having at least while writing this reports at least 2 opinions a case well we have already quoted from the us state department from the european parliament from trance. transparency international from the west ca.

one of the things that came into your area of control was the prisons. why did you allow a system of prison hierarchy of convict hierarchy why did you why did the guards can loot with the prisoners to control the system inside the prison why well actually this is a legacy which were trying to fight and to fix and if you fail to do much when you are the way to do a lot of things to do it does really yes we did a lot to improve the conditions in imprisonments and now we have only 2 prisons that are in very worst conditions that are once placed where succeeded to repair and not to be the you know in the poorest conditions that could be 1st the 2nd we succeeded to create a system that cares the people in the terms of the health the medicine treatments and which is absolutely different that it really is a council of europe reported last year that one jail soroka prison no doctor had

visited in over a year this was last year no got to have been there over a year they had 4 medical orders order lease for 800 people you think that's satisfactory no of course it's nothing is very very good watch that never fortunate already not on my watch less this is a report last year 28 i lost didn't you know last hour i wasn't the minister of justice you know when you are 17 now yes we were but they were already admitted that time has been transferred to a non political person and a technocrat since $21717.00 generally in the position of the minister of justice have been appointed only technocrats the people with very reliable and very trustful in a public society an international community one of them is an expert to nothing than a transition and the one of the international community you read the reports you see i don't trust anything would be there i usually use it in your part it's been

more than issue let's talk let's. state corrections let's talk about economical performance and social performances and let's talk about those reports because we focused on those area and there are huge progresses in that respect of course the most criticized areas for initially was a serious economists in jail who were living in conditions which were said to be bordering on the luck shuras they had divan beds kitchenettes fridges aquariums carpets on the floor widescreen television so somebody in your economy was doing well it wasn't necessarily the poorest section but these people in jail you think that providing a sort of club for senior convicts and criminals they're not going to as part of a military justice system and as you said earlier last year european up to european standards when you think in europe you have reasons like this net not at all and let's go to the prisons to see in turn the stand that i as i told you it is

a poor situation in the prisons but it is much better than it was 3 years ago and while circling about the people staying there is a report last year by the council yes but let's see the report 3 years ago and you will see a more poor situation than the last year report and year by year the reports are became in better and better nothing can be change on the reports was a good number of the rig none of them of the time when you were in government now is why the point i made at the beginning is you deserve to be a good report that includes reports in the economical area in the social area. none of the questions have been received so far from the area i understand it more plesent things to discuss everything that could be criticised and we agree with you that those are the areas that have been performed poorly and could be better could be done better and they're doing better but not in there with the speed that we would like it to do because it's not easy to do it is very complicated to do

a lot of fear for have been put in the respect lots of the investments have been public investments have been put into that area as well but still we have a lot of things to do until everything probably not perfect that acceptable and you're going to work with this new government even though you've already said it's illegal you consider the coalition to be illegal we said that it was illegal even at the moment when we transfer the governance but we said we work with it but we're going to work whether we said yes because we said at that time you have to fix one deadlock constitutional one. and it has been fixed and immediately as they goes to chanelle court has reviewed rivest some of his decisions we said ok now we can enter into the parliament now we can manage position real opposition and constructive all right fred thanks very much for being here thank you.

thank.

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