hello and welcome to quadriga hughes international talk show coming to you from berlin i'm brian thomas and on our show today you've seen them for about 3 months now every weekend out on the streets of hong kong thousands of protesters calling for democracy and the rule of law one protest 1700000 people peacefully staking their claim on freedom police holding back this time with no tear gas no rubber bullets but will beijing give hong kong the freedom and autonomy it so desperately wants and why is the west been so reluctant to unequivocally back up the protesters and their calls for democracy. our topic today china's power play hong kong for trade to talk about this i'm joined by from did abuse asia desk he says china wanted to experiment with the rule of law and

democracy in hong kong with one country 2 systems and now also has the make concessions. botches the senior expert on egypt for the bertelsmann foundation base here in berlin he says comes the hapless center of global competition of systems western democracies should show solidarity and resilience and the ability to learn. and carry channels from hong kong works for g w social media team in berlin she says china's propaganda war is only uniting the people of hong kong and they will not stop fighting on the streets until they get a real response from the government. thanks so much to all of you for being here today and to our viewers of course from around the world as well if we could start with you you know you say that it's all a matter of of the people. talking in in hong kong and of beijing

experimenting with this city have they lost control of the laboratory the laboratory that is right hong kong right now for the chinese government and are events taking on a life of their own there one see it is out of control of beijing never controls hong kong in the remaining but conscious of the public image in the international words the situation home call is like it is hong kong trying to be the part of the one country 2 systems that are part of the one of the 2 systems and well what they demanding a democracy and rule for all this written into law and that's what the dimona beijing is not ready to give them the freedom ok to 2 countries to use 2 systems as long as you can train one of the systems is clearly totalitarian the one in beijing hong kong has been frayed to this point a baronet you say hong kong is on its way to becoming

a police state. at least the police have played a role in the last couple of weeks that i think has surprised a lot of hong kong as because in hong kong there was a lot of trust in institutions and then the police and the police violence that we've seen and that hasn't been independently. researched is something that has shock. collar hong kong has and is really at the heart of this conflict which for hunk owners and knows better than we all do is a conflict about what is our city going to be like in the future is it going to be just any chinese city or is it going to remain. differences ok this point of view is that it's 2047 right that hong kong reverts to complete chinese rule so there's this window of opportunity there a cherry as a hong kong or how is this city different from the rest of china. in that race in

hong kong. people i mean from there we always see freedom. almost the same standard as how the west and woe is seeing it we also know people from china with friends from mainland china when we talk about this because we know that we have a friends. for example we always have a relatively high freedom of speech freedom of media we can get access to facebook and twitter and the internet without any restrictions which is very different from the mainland china ok and it's also the court system as well which hong kong has been so successful because it has an independent course is that there is the rule of law that is also a main difference along with freedom of expression isn't it yeah exactly in hong kong we always trust such a system and we know that it's independent from and ministration we know that we have always trust that the government would not interfere a city in 2 and

a. law and each of the show ok so it's a long way from where we are today to a police state that so many people fear how one of the problems that protesters have been pointing to is the extradition law that the citizens of hong kong if they are charged with a crime would disappear to mainland china basically what's behind these fears of being extradited to mainland china why is that so terrifying for hong kong people are the reasons pretty clear because home and city are good by law but the mainland china is not the case there was some accused in hong kong the if the if they go to to meet in china their fear is not very transparency proceeds in the courts that's the main reason for the hope protests but now this bill is dead says the c.e.o. of the country but it's just the beginning of the loan protests because the finally

the months it's the democracy is the real meaning like we understand here in west. what do you think what are the chances that this real democracy is how put it as we know in the west can be protected by kerry lam the current leader of the city of all go. i don't think promoting democracy is the job that kerry has been given by the beijing government the basic law said that potentially hong kong could have free elections it's not very definite there is it's a it's unclear no but that is what hong kong people have been hoping for the longest time that at one point there will be full democracy and beijing has made it very clear in the last couple of years that that is not going to happen and it's carried . through to no squash these protests in pismo taking says it could happen but.

it should have causing the basic law is that eventually and gradually it would have but not put tension is so we believe that in the end it would happen and we're looking forward to this ok cerium you also pointed to earlier social media very much part of china's propaganda warfare aimed at not only the people inside all gone but the mainland chinese as well it shows that beijing really wants to get control of this process the protest process quickly as possible is there a fear in beijing in how this question would apply the use well that that the protests will will leave hong kong and move to other parts of the country that we could see protests elsewhere in china as a result of yeah i think the propaganda war by china itself very often enough a successful in hong kong and it's all very successful in the international media as well because hong kong people have been very used to this kind of propaganda state

media their statements and people mainly use it mainly say it as a joke more than believing what they are saying yes so and also hong kong people really trying to be they are really trying.