i'm ill and i'm gay and we're going to brand new w. from the bottom of it's personal device and it's about topics that affect us all water pollution climate change and the turn. corners are in fact shut out if. we can make china a peaceful country if you ever said no to beijing yes many times i'm telling you the facts why don't you list the politicians in taiwan because being out campaigning in presidential primaries ahead of next year's election with the topic of relations with china very much on the agenda my guest this week outside the capital taipei show she way who's been seeking the nomination of hughes probating

party the kuomintang as china pushes with increasing see for reunification on the taiwanese continue to reject its one on a party got to offer. the way welcome. thank you very much for inviting me. you said the only way to resolve antagonism between china and 2 i one is to talk to love. to know your lover china that is threatening taiwan both verbal and militarily and holding a sword over your head continually how do you love what world does your impression actually if you talk to some chinese in mainland china as long as you don't support separation from china they are not treat you like that they are not attack you

don't say the wrong thing other was right and you know you are normal lives that you think that's a normal way to live there are power across 180 kilometers of the straits as to you if you see the wrong thing you finished why do you think i don't think it's that serious you have to be serious you keep saying i think you have to talk to each other if you try to visit china so call the china we call the mainland ok we are taiwan our mainland we together is a china is a one china war if you think the threats from china is so serious as taiwan why do european people all the people around the world are all the members up in the e.u. and try to work with china try to have dialogue with china try to solve problems it's true that you know that as well as i do it's not a human rights record is there working history we can do that too apart from trade

what exactly it is democratic time i was having common these days with one party communist china you have free elections yes you will change your party in power they don't you have independent courts they know you have a free press they don't you can speak out against abuses of power and they can't what on earth have you got in common with mainland china and. i think we should emphasize differences. go there work with them be their friends be their brothers and change that instead of being their enemies go there walk with them you can change like what do you were doing with them now what are you going to do a country about human rights what on earth in china that you can change them what on earth is the evidence what you see the trade surplus china with rights you see a lot of changes in hong kong recently why china is not using force to press down be demonstration why they compromise why because they seek opportunity

to prove they can change they came pruitt will come on to hong kong a little later i want to go into some detail of that but the serious issue is the military pressure from china is not even 2 years ago your government's national defense report highlighted concerns that chinese military activity near taiwan posed an enormous threat to security in the taiwan states now just a few days ago you had washington saying that china stepped up its pressure seeing the largest increase in military activity around taiwan for 20 years as you and you think about to meaningless why us say china is going to interfere in the election in tell you why and so us is coming here to interfere in taiwan is a lecture you happy with these bullying turnouts because that's what they are not happy about bullying thing but i'm not what i was doing i'm happy about you know we can do business with each other we can ask the china to make changes we are the

only people on earth believe that we can make that happen we can make china a peaceful country where you look back at the history who are the invaders who are the invaders japan right who participated the wars in asia. if you want to live in history you want to live in the us i want you live in modern humans i assure people i want you i want to make history clear who are the invaders ok if you want to be someone's enemy then they will be your enemy if you want to be someone's friend always following your ideas because you have raised if only like ok let me tell you why while think why us is selling our 16 to taiwan instead of $35.00 and the us is selling f. $35.00 to korea to japan to singapore to other countries why the united states gave the island to to japan instead of taiwan it was our

territory why the us is doing that to taiwan this show. vice president of the taiwan foundation for democracy said last month that more and more taiwanese feel their nation is now under existential threat and you seem to be out of touch with that feeling totally you don't feel i'm very i think the reality i feel the reality i know how to deal with the chinese in mainland. i know what's the fact i know you have to give your do from you don't have to deal with them as a politician i try to deal with them when i was the mayor here at the the big city mayor i work with the city in one gene i try to communicate with them i try to work with them try to ameliorate carbon emissions e.c.s. environmental issues education issues we'll work with them to validate the magic

front where they continue to squeeze you where they ramp up the pressure where they try to persuade countries to drop their recognition diplomatic recognition that you did that you not curiosity china didn't remember this you lost in the lead in 2918 to chinese russia you've known about the intersection using an engine fake you you recognize china you don't recognize the the republic of china you will recognize me because if i was writing about republicans and we were talking about china is taiwan we were the representative of china before 971 and the un i talked. about it is true and this is going to be artistic you know i'm telling the fact we exist here that the are we seeing this is here and that's what you called the taiwan but you never knew or could now is the hour see here you recognize the p.r.c. rates what in the e.u. when i read an article recently we here are 21 china policy as regards to taiwan

and hong kong and i just i think you should be defined like this we are here to one china policy as regards to mainland taiwan hong kong and macau mr. you're not talking about china that continues to thwart taiwan's participation in international organizations like the world health organization and interpol for instance you want to be members of those organised want to sign up as i want you to help us is trying to stop it why you agree. as you know having asked why do you never criticize your maybe i just as i must pay attention everybody i think when you say dr who i know no meantime i need to know do you really want to i mean to say that we've read a lot of i have a chance i have to express my opinion about china as no toys are going to set up this is wrong this is the tell you i have here one more thing the un the e.u.

even germany you recognize the p.r.c. you don't recognize the scene and i truly hope one day you recognize the hour see you know how to participate doubly h. o. ok i and you see the chinese are lucky that we have a lot of investigation to try to tell them you are talking as a work which you try to those results i didn t. it is you such great reality that can keep it that can't you try to talk to mainland china time they try to sound upright yet they try to do let us put is that mr cho especially the h. o. and i see it or mr churchill beijing is clearly losing patience with taiwan while you dream of some vague love in between taipei and the mainland china is crystal clear what it wants from you and that's reunification and it refuses to rule out the use of force to get it doesn't it and you live with that and you

normalize that on a daily basis ok in our constantly saying to the not you can't come dancing you couldn't possible see constitution ok there is only one china policy. and that includes mainland taiwan hong kong and in my car that's in our constitution we should buy and buy our country's constitutional rights you're being told by xi jinping as you were in january unification is an inevitable requirement for the great rejuvenation of the chinese people he said taiwan should accept that it must and will be reunited with china whatever talks you've been having with china hasn't got them out of that idea and how many people in taiwan want that the unification of under 3 percent there or about that i'm going to turn worry about what the rand paul thing about you don't know you've already got people up i think but don't worry about their threatening words you're going to stand up to those threatening

words what we stand up to you won't we stand up to that but you know have a cigarette remember iran must and well ok and i did with china i mean so much of me have you tried to take a lot of our constitution so have you tried to take a look of loss this is showing our last word china saying our laws and in our constitution we want to peaceful relationship we want to unification. the people who go through the people don't cast in our lot in the constitution it doesn't matter what their country why they want to try to amend the constitution that's your perception our people here want to have a peaceful relationship with the mainland and we want to make money we want to do business together we want to have a democracy in the future in mainland china but not fighting against them not taking down s. and anomie trying to be their friends and tragic change them by participation as like what you do elsewhere the euro that's working so well is the the reality is mr

joe the beijing's push on unification puts your party the kuomintang into a very difficult position doesn't it your veteran china expert suchi actually said that he said she jinping took away all the space for ambiguity and that puts us the kuomintang in a very difficult situation that difficulty being that your party is being told get on with this by china and you don't have a policy of standing up to it so you do have a policy what is it i declared that i claim that i want to unify each china i want to unify under taiwan less chance so many as $3000000.00 people want taiwan against the courage it is made a 1000000000 that it might have to see either one percent or so it's fantasy you have to remember there are 3 that happen. in the world you have to understand the history in the world what's happening now unification separation. yes

yes that's the process unification separation separation unification. that's a track of the history but there's one thing very important i also learned wrongs never mind the track of westerly track of history is just words is the talk of you know you just know it's the fact the question is what people want to know human nature is that the vast majority of your population do me a favor wants unification do me a favor i know have you ever stood up to china i stand out if you have a son to answer them i stand up for the republic of china have you ever said no to beijing yes for many times what's wrong with human rights issues through yes really yes you can do it when cracking down when you know exactly what it can and then acts and they happen 730 years ago i'd be told down to years whenever i went to china i told them you need to introduce democracy to your society so they're listening yes really isn't it so once you the 1st of them was cracked down in 25

years taking place on human rights activists human rights watch reported last year human rights defenders continue to enjoy arbitrary detention imprisonment and in force disappear yes and you say nothing about that. have you heard i said anything about that i get just now i even told them i even told them because you don't know my history the old in with them i have the many dialogues with them i told them you have to improve that's human rights that's international standards of treating your people i told them to ok i have to tell you one thing if you don't participate if you don't join them if you don't treat them like they can improve their nothing good is going to happen and what i did live here it's a fine line between that and the peace movement isn't a yes it's a very flexible and fine line it's very ambiguous but you have to do that from your heart. people know that it's ever spoken up for the tiny taiwanese democracy

activists leaving che it's more than living chait's more than 2 years since he was forcibly disappeared you haven't heard of him leap chair it's more than 2 years since he was forcibly disappeared by police in china's province and charge was subversion of state power he's a citizen of taiwan you don't talk about you don't even though he's now you know he's in terrible conditions human rights groups around the world have been campaigning for his release you know one of our garbage sentenced to 5 years in jail can't get phone calls can't get letters 4 times his wife was prevented from from going to china to visit. and you know his rights are being around 20 years ago i tried to talk to chinese commoners to release and as suspects a lady who just got married and who was the released recently i talked to our

government. when calming down was the ruling party and they didn't step in they didn't try to rescue her she was sentenced to death however in jail for 20 years and just a year ago she was released probably just at the in this year she was released and look what the people here have done to help human rights you know we should try to work together and we should try to talk to them and what the government here do let's talk about hong kong again you mentioned earlier the interview and you were you were praising china that they have shown restraint with the demonstrations not praising them for that who started this in the 1st place ok that's the law right. for what the demonstrators will tell you that it was

a constant erosion of their freedoms under the one country 2 systems for forced them onto the streets anywhere the denial of universal suffrage the kidnapping of booksellers the banning of a political party the prevention of elected legislative council is taking their seats because they didn't like their politics that constant erosion of freedom under the one country 2 systems that's the system that she is offering you one country to use them i suggest you take a look what's been happening here in taiwan in the arrow see the ruling party d.p.p. who claimed they protect human rights there is a minority you know i have to tell when it embarrasses something happening here that's the reason why it's so embarrassing because our ruling party is trying to act martial law here doing something even worse and there is one lawyer related to

national security you know that's what they are doing here our ruling party here into a white of course we created size the hong kong government especially the council tried to establish a law which your hong kong residents disagree and it doesn't trust sold that the so you believe is heritage your back to your chief executive you blame the kerry lamb the chief exec she's beijing's appointing russian history should be our pointy even so-called elected by some hong kong representation of a. more ask people has come from people is there democracy is serious liston as can compete let me come back to the question and this is the one thing is important they were to draw. a lot draft right they've suspended it they said it was not there it is still there it said they've said it's deb's and said they would drop because they did something wrong there in the meat i

think there's something preceding with it but not now that's that's what's happening before now they say they would drop you're satisfied it's over now i'm not satisfied about that i'm more about what's happening here in taiwan and the one country 2 systems formula that she jinping has offered to taiwan we don't have to read that or that's not going to happen that's not going to happen then you mean hong kong is not going to have different systems from china a system isn't the last thing i think the system what should exist because that's the the window shop for chinese they should to show that improvement of democracy to the world hong kong system is a joke isn't give don't try to violate that it's going to embarrass them just to show isn't a lesson that you should take away from hong kong is that china doesn't live up to its promises of democracy isn't that the lesson i think and i think talking and

one thing i love china i don't live up to the note on this i do think we should try to change then we should try to improve them you should 1st say no to them what how do you know i didn't say no to them. doing that i've been doing that for so many years every time i visited china i talked to them. i say improve your system especially a democratic system and they step up their interference with well. look at the propaganda war that's being waged against taiwan a study by the university of gothenburg in sweden said you're one of china's major targets for spreading disinformation happy about direct interference well i think. we all see so-called taiwan should be more more opened to outside world especially western society you're avoiding we question i don't really know is this information

here what china is trying to do that but other countries also try to do that too i think we should take active actions in solving their problems well they're open society but not open enough to the outside world a table of how many english speaking channels here so take a look at how many how much international media are existing here in taiwan we're not exposed enough to the outside world however the politicians here try to close the door. try not close you know we are one we. know who we are or you know we we emphasize local so much instead of internationalization that's what you don't want to see more going on in your resume do you know when you really miss ourself 1st you don't want to admit it now we want to improve ourselves too we also want to improve china remember i want to take

active active process active approach to china to make china change this idea that you can make sure that chile which frankly is pretty much of a long shot why should people vote for your next year well if you're selling fantasies like that one no we're not selling fantasy. be realistic it's a difficult competition. why don't you try to realize what p.p.p. can do give you. the real action why don't you take a look what we're fighting for where fighting for true democracy here and keep the ruling democracy here we're trying to build up a peaceful relationship with china with the mainland we're trying to create a better society here we're trying to introduce your systems your values

here to taiwan we're trying so hard to do that if we want to convents of people here that can keep this country perfectly well then we have to respect the democracy we have to open our society to the outside world we have to be honest to our people the bad one in our ruling party is cheating our people well the bad news for you is that a plurality of taiwanese 45 percent don't identify with your party or the ruling d.p.p. to take a look take a look at you're right you're right they don't trust the parties here yeah they don't trust us they don't trust them they don't trust our party you're not saying anything that they think is relevant what i believe that what they are saying is relevance we realise the fact already people don't trust the parties here people don't trust the politicians here which is right with them i trust you i mean you you said in the 2nd probably debate we're going to have some problems you claim that the number of times when these people below the poverty line was believed to

be around 3200000. which is suppressed simply not true which is simply not true it's true that if you research you know essentially says taiwan proportionally contains fewer people living in poverty than any other country in asia now now you're almost no time no i mean some of them are less than 2 years on there's an interesting to me patience leigh you know when i was the mere entirely county. they are around one quarter of the students can afford their lunch that's one quarter if you times that proportion to the total population here in taiwan and tell me in fact and i'm right. i'm telling you the fact that's not the facts that's the fact i'm telling you the fact why don't you listen almost no time when he is live on less than $1.00 u.s. dollars a day that's noble part out there that is that really you have

a poverty that's growing population of poverty is different really my definition relative of that is not know you right yes relative to every minute yet that's my definition and ubiquitous is my donation you live in i can tell you if any student cannot afford their lunch then he and his family is living in poverty that's my definition if it all goes wrong here in taiwan and she jinping loses patience and somebody says something they shouldn't say. and china looks as though it's moving towards an invasion would you fight for taiwan. or not where do your loyalties lie mr cho loyal to our country the republic of china well loyal to our constitution you would you fight your show you know yes yes yes if they violate our constitution to preserve and protect our people and

defend our people i'll fight against china so she way you're going to have your own comfort zone thank you very much as 6660 x. x. . x. x. x. .

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or selling out of a country that don't fear. starts to come retains on d w. i'm not laughing at that well i guess sometimes i am but i said nothing which does not mean the germans think stephen for german culture of looking at the stereotypes of the classics that is think the future of the country but i don't blame. you yet you did see me take photos grandma day oh. it's cold out there. i'm rachel join me from the german sunday w. . post. when your family scattered across the globe. to listen to plug. into the roots gentlemen the lead. the charge finally from somalia live around the

world to. me to the urgent assistance of. the family starts october and on. a little bit of the. plane . this is deja vu news live from berlin a new government prepares to take charge in italy promising a new direction for the country the coalition unites 2 parties that will once rival the antiestablishment 5 star movement and the center left democratic party what are its chances of survival also coming up growing turmoil in britain as lawmakers deal prime minister boris johnson more blows blocking his hardline dregs of science and

voting against his calls for a snap election. out of my goodness not a bang out.