they killed a lot of time forces. on the 77 percent who talk about the issue. from the point of the flash from going to top this is where they are. welcome to the 77 percent. this weekend p.w. . hong kong is the new berlin in the new cold war says pro-democracy activists joshua one speaking here in the german capital he told the w.t.v. that the people of germany must stand with the people of hong kong beijing though immediately let it be known that there will be consequences and many are asking how much of a threat is china to western democratic values and well on her recent trip to china

german chancellor angela merkel called for a peaceful end to the hong kong crisis saying anything else would be quote a catastrophe this is thousands of protesters continue to takes the streets all phone kong on an almost daily basis and ahead of celebrations on october the 1st to mark the 70th anniversary of the people's republic on question is the long march china's path to the global supremacist. so a very warm welcome indeed to the 1st edition of the w's new international political talk show to the point with me peter craven the focus this week is on china's expanding global role and my guests chen so on a freelance journalist from china she says angela merkel's visit to china came at a. moment but she accomplished their mission impossible and both the witnesses are

on of reimer's former china correspondent for germany on the network and arianna believes that china has excellent strategic qualities and capabilities europe's answer must be a strategy old unity and a very warm welcome to sonoma brockett an american journalist who's trying to be a follower of the medication institute for china studies here in berlin he argues quite simply the germany must show molitor shame on china. thank you all 3 of you for being here today i'd like to begin with you chen soon and begin with the latest developments surrounding joshua wall how much of a controversy has it been and how are the chinese side likely to react. i think china react quite strongly in a way that they know they have to show that it's their stance that this is not what they expected that what because especially one was just thing china and

decisis kind of. almost like a balance of. criticism from that german media side that america hasn't been focused enough about this issue ok we'll talk about i'm going to visit to china in just a 2nd but 1st of all just your one visit to d.w. studios right here in berlin and he made this appeal we hope people in treatment and the chancellor castro a strong stand to support hong kong's democratization the ultimate and fundamental call for us is to elect our own government. ariano that's very clear people from just you know when their house germany go the german government go in supporting their pro don't democracy demonstrators in hong kong i think chancellor merkel has made clear in her visit in beijing that she asks for nonviolent response of china and hong kong and for peaceful peaceful solution of the hong kong conflict at the

moment that's that she made it clear at the press conference of beijing that's one side the other side is should she have met a wall here in berlin i think no i think it was a good idea not to meet with him because she. has met also with members of a society in beijing like she also she didn't mind maybe it's with germany's foreign minister in that clearly under beijing considered definitely definitely and that was it was it a good idea for the foreign ministers to meet with joshua while i think it was not a good idea to have a photo of the meeting and to have it like to have it as a big symbol and the media of think that was a little bit of a too much i think meeting with activists meeting with with those of society with people who are struggling for freedom for democracy is a very good idea it's one of the core values also of germany but you might get like public at a party of one of the biggest newspaper i'm not sure whether that was a good idea and what new things because you know quotes of itself of this no no we've got you calling for more leadership from germany this is leadership meeting

there's the foreign minister meeting which i'm sure a woman is of the right kind of leadership because it can be it will be explosive well the timing of it of course as as you mentioned is a bit awkward merkel had come back only a few days before from china and i think that is probably seen in china as. a form of disrespect that one was was a welcome to hear that the firm mr high command went to this party was photographed with him but i think you know americal when she was in beijing gave made very clear that she wanted a peaceful said. and of this conflict i don't see a big problem in the german foreign minister meeting with joshua why he's here in berlin. what i feel is that there's a bit of an overreaction on the chinese side to the chinese ambassador summoning the press and condemning this which is quite unusual and of a certain. sure when he compared the situation in hong kong with the protests here

in germany as a peaceful revolution here in germany that led to the fall of the berlin wall what do you make of that comparison and i think it's i think also this comparison is a bit of all of a stretch in my opinion that 1st the where you know very defend his talk about it was very you know a different time now he compared this as the new cold war i think right now the whole world is not as bipolar as back then and also i think one thing we always try to make it clear is why china's so i'm very at this point and also somehow this metaphor is that what is his eyes what is josh if he actually is just the activist the fighting for democracy or is he actually separate and that's a very distinctive point to that what is in a nutshell what is your answer to your own question i think from the point of view of the chinese government he definitely wanted to hang on to be not just democratic but also into pendent and that's a big question so. in

a global battle between harry and systems and democratic systems i think a bit more complicated than that it's definitely at the front line at the moment and. yesterday at this press conference and berlin sad about that in the past have been tibet and now it's hong kong more they'll be taiwan so he he put in a like a for up specter and i think there is some truth into the picture but on the other side i'm not sure whether it's like the whether it is a symbol for the big new world it is one symbol of many many there are existing at the moment. we have to we have to look also out that trite war at the moment of the track conflict between china we have to see what position europe has in between whether to put themselves where to put themselves whether to have a known position on. that point so i think it's more complex than this just to put hong kong at the front line thank you all 3 of those initial comments let's just take a quick look now at the role that human rights played during the chancellor's trip

to china. criticism is unwelcome that's why german correspondents in beijing were not allowed to attend the press conference but chancellor angela merkel did answer the question of whether she had mentioned the protest in hong kong during the meeting she said she talked about the rights and freedoms underpinned by the sino british declaration in the. covered all of the movies in the us and i pointed out that these rights and freedoms have to be guaranteed. the joint declaration is still valid. and it entails a number of citizens' rights that should and must be respected conan. the prime minister read a prepared statement. the chinese government safeguards the principle of one country 2 systems. we support the hong kong government's efforts to end the violence on the streets and to return to order the chinese people have the ability and wisdom to handle their own matters well. can western politicians wield any

influence regarding human rights in china. chance to go back to your comments at the top of the show will have you saying. mission impossible to china and. i think just the timing is a very. you know a very complicated so what what's this main goal visit to china i think to one is the address the issue that's what's going on because she faces a lot of pressure from. back home and the other one is for sure 2 of the the bilateral relationship between germany and china specifically focusing i cannot make development but this 2 topics actually contradict each other because if the she is too loud about hong kong and then it will make of the common angry and then of course what have consequences in a way if they cannot be reddish unship but if she is too quiet she will face

tremendous criticism i should come back to germany so i think she funder somehow or other to a good balance between those 2 topics what do you say you know about our course you know my theory still clings to this policy notion of the 100 suits of. german rhyme that is treat trade will create a better china or a more human rights oriented china or a more liberal china critics under michael's critics say that's a totally outdated strategy would yeah i mean i think broadly she would have been happy with the way this trip went it as as you were saying there was potential for for problems and tension and i think she when she headed back to berlin those the there hadn't been really any tension there hadn't been some big blow up. the protests in hong kong for example but i would say that what was missing from this trip was sort of the european approach we've seen europe taking

a much tougher approach with china over the past year. back in march i think it was french president and the new owner michael invited merkel and european commission president jean-claude juncker to paris to meet which sees him paying to sort of send a message europe is united on china we can't be divided and going to beijing at this time after this year of reforms investment screening to protect german and european companies from chinese chinese acquisitions to go there with a large contingent of german c.e.o.'s to put the focus back on business i think some of germany's partners in europe may be questioning you know where whether the priority whether merkel's priorities are in the right place the backdrop to what you're telling us there is there is what is often described by commentators and pundits as a sea change in relations been with china in the last couple of years china

becoming more global ambitions china becoming more dangerous perhaps yeah well i think we've seen this here in germany back in 2016 we had this the acquisition of this german robotics maker kuka and that kind of was a wake up call for a lot of people in germany also in europe we need we need a level playing field if we can't make acquisitions like this in china we need to prevent maybe china from from making such acquisitions here so but but but it's not just these these corporate matters it's also the spread of the debt and political influence through belt and road china's surveillance state which is also being exploited to 3rd countries so there is a great deal of concern in in berlin and and in other european capitals about this . we're going to systemic rivalries where the calling of european union commission is called and i'm going to medical school that surely bounces rivalry is healthy

well rivalry is only healthy to a certain point to the point when it can create innovation for example when there is like a proper competition for for example but i think we had them at a point at the moment which can be very dangerous especially to germany to an exporting country because that much. that germany and europe at the end cath no on sun a problem on so to what's going on between china and the u.s. at the moment if you if we look at the discussion about the chinese company huawei and zte and then to eat and all which is like the i.t. industry of china of china like is there a way of of that industry becoming part of the european 5 g. networks for example and what's the u.s. reaction and what is like with all the companies supporting like little tiny parts for any of the goods to u.s. companies than so the big danger i think is that europe and germany will be kind of

a might be a victim of a decoupling system of 2 systems so the rivalry at that point will not be healthy a tall it will lead to a very very big problem for for the germany common a commie for the european economies and then also for the world economy so i think there is a point where we everybody has to go back and say do we do do we really want thought and to what extent do we to do we want to to put our positions forward and not and not withdraw who has touched on it's already according to critics of beijing business with china really turns place on an even playing field and that's not the only problem. chancellor angela merkel in china with the who's who of germany's business sector at her side you know 11 deals are signed. in $28000.00 china was germany's biggest trading partner for the 3rd year running bilateral trade reached almost $200000000000.00 euros. but the price of trading with china is high with regard to free market access for example despite many promises german

companies complain they're at a disadvantage in china. with regard to industrial espionage and counterfeiting foreign companies that work with china lose millions to piracy. and then there's the social credit system beijing's way of monitoring evaluating and tantalising citizens and businesses. german companies fear all encompassing surveillance. is china using to tell us here in methods to conduct trade. is china creating a. style system of controlling its own citizens. about the social credit system for example. i think it's very interesting to look at how that discussion what's going on here in germany for example and what's going on with the discussion going on in china now especially if for example about the credit system

and believe it or not many of them think it's actually a good thing because they use a look at the crime rates. and then people feel safe i'm not saying that they come as a cost or i'm saying it's the what a lot of chinese concern to many people in china they think it's 50 is somehow more important than privacy because they also help people look at privacy is a very different you feel look at the privacy issues through the chinese lens they somehow rather sacrifice their privacy in order to get convenience and also safety so. i think from that point of view a lot of chinese doesn't even look at it as a money training system so i think it's a quite interesting to just try to i think from the chinese to the point of view and how easy it is actually for the chinese government to put up a system you know well you're right that different kind of countries have different . sense of what is acceptable and what isn't acceptable in privacy here in germany

there's quite a strict view in china i think if you look at public opinion polls people are accepting of this i think maybe one of the the worrying things is that this is being exported to 3rd countries in latin america. in africa etc so i think here in europe there's a concern that if if the west doesn't pull together europe along with the united states and set certain standards of data privacy there's a debate in the u.k. right now about the surveillance. for example at king's cross station. in london so this is a debate that that europe the united states other western countries have to have what is acceptable and what for them goes too far in talking about control and influence of iran over there we're going to talk about the bells and road

initiative it's the biggest infrastructure project in the world they say it's bringing jobs and economic opportunity to very many countries that haven't had jobs and economic opportunity in the way that we do in europe it has to be a good thing or no not necessarily because they also has to be stunned thoughts and what they're european you know what your money is focusing on is that that of course infrastructure investment and job investment is an investment that any at any level should come with such and such as transparency laws and certain standards of how investments and who how investments are done and who is doing this is rich coming from europe with that it was the colonial background of the. in many southern hemisphere countries in the past century that that's true that perspective is true but on the other side there's also the danger and that danger has been felt already by some countries who have been like dealing with china and big infrastructure projects as for longer for example because they can't pay the debts at the end because the infrastructure programs and hope as in roads and in trains

can't they don't bring the money they they thought they will bring and then these countries with these poor countries on debt indebted to china and at the end big infrastructure programs constructions will be at chinese hands as has as has happened in sri lanka with the harbor so it's not only an advantage and i think even those countries who might be also quite disorder who has a very complicated history with european colonial. history with those they are also now kind of. courses how and whether to deal with china because they have seen already quite bad examples so the interesting thing about the road initiative is that it's not anymore brought forward and any talk it has been like a year ago and a year and a half ago when we helped build a road initiative of any any chinese official was talking this word definitely was even and now it's kind of gone for the moment why is it gone because it's not as successful as they thought and we maybe we thought the country thought it from the

very beginning. i think that sometimes i honestly i never understood why do they have to come up with such a big concept and the name and then for people to target time it stands for what's just a i actually because i think this comes to the sort of the chinese tradition they need a big title for they need a sort of almost like a monument to make sure that there's certain credits being done by a certain leadership voters are approaching an impression the water one of the chinese ordinary chinese you don't know it's very difficult to generalize but it was a very comfortable with the status quo or do they did a young. as a country to be an expansionist nation i think it's always deep down rooted in the sort of the chinese psych psyche in a way that's because a we've been taught as the what you feel grow up in china then you learned the chinese history what with some how well the time as a nation suffered through the opium war and what's going on happen in the 2nd world

war over and over again for 3 or 4 times alone when you when you come to just study and those of this kind of ingrained in your bring that they want to have to be bigger and stronger and then really sort of. get rid of the humiliation the chinese have suffered in generations and i think the sentiment is still there and the such a big country that's involved from pyar which is no clear borders they need this sort of a concentrate forcing order to hold this country together and that's always the and still will be there and probably will be there for a long time you know a big country big big middle of military force is not going to be a major military parade or there's the biggest presentation of military hardware that china reserve of many don't want so that's a 1st what's the message. what is the message that china is trying to send out well . i don't know the answer to that i think she's in pink 70th anniversary is a big deal in china and. you know you have this gathering

nationalism of the china dream and that she's been paying as he described it and it's tell us a little bit about the china dream got some very important aspects of always welcome and today well i think this is just this idea that china is rising up if it suffered through the centuries of the industrial revolution and trying to sort of left behind and this is about a revival of trying that you know returning to its rightful place as as a global leader. i think but this nationalism can get out of control of course and i mean china had traditionally has not been a an expansionist country like the united states or britain. so we need to remember that important yeah we need to remember that but of course this us china trade war

with some people calling it a new cold war is inflaming these. nationalistic these not only in china but also in the u.s. and that's something that can get out of control if the politicians inflame it too much if nothing telling us about chinese sensibilities and china is very most adamant supporter of the message we are a values based society were a values based economy want all the values that china brings to the global tables that are good values to fight the world a better place. it was left that didn't really open. it was a private. well they may not be the same values that are. traditionally associated with western values i mean you know china's often chris i've criticized for human rights for its human rights record its response is look at all these millions of people that we've taken out of poverty. there are

different values right and we talked about the social credit system in china it may be acceptable for a good portion of the population and in many countries certainly in germany it would be totally unacceptable. so. what is trying to get contribute to global governance i think that is a big question and that's that's something that a lot of a lot of other countries are wondering you know what is the chinese model is it a model that can be. can be translated to on a global scale as as perhaps we saw after world war 2 with the united states and western europe. which always sort of marshall plan generation yeah yeah. i think there are big questions about whether this is trying to model has has broader appeal. you know in beyond beyond china and so forth and jumping i think for example a fish and it's that kind of cult has

a value or it kind of has the advantage sure what decisions that chinese remembering on the table is that germans are proud of their missions they do so waving force one feels and that also for them they get we always have this is the stereotype the chinese the hot lead king right sometimes even chill much and then that might be and you also mention a rivalry as so i think that to a certain extent is actually it is also good to make the phrase i'm told they contradict each other they feel a bit nervous about you have to operate gaming us our takes time so i think of that south of maybe bring some come. technology i think it's not a bad thing is china striving for global. i think for what from the chinese side they always been bad from anything that you remember a couple of years ago doubtless they can as a peaceful rise that was specially refined to what's going on with us to asia and if their. neighbor neighbor area and by knowledge say we don't export model

ok we're going to leave the variables are going to us although it was a good answer thanks very much for joining us on the shows are going to the point the new. bunch of us. have a. much . much. much. much of a. in

good shape takes light weight for us in forests and fields and that's dangerous. and down more the 900 different species of ticks some of them up or is missing and others have chance meeting after mosquitoes takes other most dangerous victor but

he says everything you ever wanted to know about takes. 30 minutes on d w. on the road with our superheroes. my mission is clear blue crush to get antony closely should explore germany. they dive in and everything out there's a lot going on in the. pub surely tried and tested. on t w. welcome to the what is the game here for doug. place to talk about a. country that's old. so you don't want.

to put him in. the. natural riches of precious resources. and a rewarding investment. farmland that's been called ethiopia's green gold the country has an abundant supply of leases it to international paper for child's . government after high export revenues come to. permissions profit margin. but not everyone benefits from the business. objects the burmans of destruction starving. the government corporate. above.

don't know how you know. start september 18th on d w. play. list if you doubt me is coming to life from hong kong progress through another weekend of true democracy demonstrations but they could be harsh consequences to those core topping clashes if we needed a young man and you to go on trial he faces a daunting sentenced if found guilty what's coming up to one fo.