d.w. presents a high profile hail discussion hosted by the amount. of 45 minutes on d. w. . welcome to the what is the game here. to talk about and. that's the whole. this week on the 77 percent st pete. i believe the minister have to understand that his country is being labeled as a sex tourist destination it's going to be very difficult to take away sex tourism from a country that is mostly dependent on tourism is saying that foreigners and tourists

are treated better than gangrene and have a better. argument about that most of the governors are lame ducks the government you have a lot of work to do because you're not doing what you. called the mining coast of africa and looking at the shorelines across the atlantic it's easy to see why the gambia is a very popular destination for tourists but equally those escaping the winter in europe but what are some of the unintended consequences of tourism well i have a group of young people here who are going to help me answer that question and i'm going to start with killer is actually a rapper but he uses his music to anthony fly the voice of young people and the issues around here so killer of had said that the gambia is a sex tourism hot spot is a true. absolutely it definitely is a hot spot. understand if it was only limited towards people who are on the same

category as adults but is even went down to a level where you see paedophilia like on a rapid basis children as young as 9 years old you know being preyed on by tourists you know so it's not just the sex tourism of prostitutes and women of beautiful gambian women you know but also the young generation who are coming up and are being exploited by you know. ok i want to speak to somebody who is actually an official from the tourism ministry mr hummingbird john you are the senior product development officer in the ministry you've had what the young man has say but you minister has said. this is not true so where is the contradiction well if you say it is a sex tourism destination that's where the const contradiction is. nobody's saying there's no sex tourism in the camera but if you call it a success stories in this nation it looks like the whole destination is prepared you know. product developed you know market sex tourism destination which is the minister's argument ok so potato potato here it sounds to me but when you deny that

this is really happening in the country don't you think you also deny people a chance to solve the problem again i insist on what i said to begin in that there is no denial of sex tourism taking place in the country because we're seeing it what we're denying is people calling to his investigation so it's not potato potato it's this is the difference you need to draw the line between the 2 where the destination is the sex tourism destination or the sex the sex tourism going on it has a section is going on particularly myself i've been in industry for such a long time and i've seen sex tourism practices i'm not denying it but if the minister says it's not a sex tourism business and i'm not aware of that. ok yeah. i believe the minister have to understand that his country is being labeled as a sex tourist destination by who the sex tourists who come there and feedback information and market get him you as a sex tourist destination and i believe that's what they have to understand and come out with more strategies to counter that sort of what comes and they come back

for more of a size culturally music you know but not as a sex tourist destination because as soon as they come to something can be. the 1st thing you see majority of the europeans talking to some old lady looking for a young man who is you know potent enough to you know to take care of her sexually or the other way around because it actually exists on a large scale here in the grammy ok so i think we can definitely agree that's experiencing definitely happening here we're not making it up even the person from the ministry says that he's witnessed it so i want to come to you but she's a journalist for the purposes of this conversation she's also a women's rights activist so how did this all begin take me through it because the country doesn't just host 6 troops out of nowhere it actually is very very it's going to be very difficult to. take away sex tourism from a country that is mostly dependent on tourism in itself but this is something that would stay in the park has been really happening and for that reason officials take

it very very seriously when you come to say for instance this is a place where we have a lot of tourists coming to and so what happens or interesting is that they make sure that people or young girls under the age of 18 find it very difficult to access these places who also have the sexual offenses act that also condemns sex i mean and sex tourism in the country but also when you go to hotels you have these athletes and it's written and very modified for them for the jurors themselves to understand that you cannot take part in these practices in this country when you go to the communities themselves where sometimes when tourists come to engage in sex tourism you go to the communities because they know when they come to the hotels then they might be tracked easily ok so you have let's not let's not let's not jump the gun here because i think we're talking about regulation and we still don't know what the real problem is because we're talking about these stories coming in the stories coming in but they're engaging with gambians so why are gambians

participating so that's actually the point you make because there's a problem we have to sensitize the gamete communities a little bit more there's got to be a grassroots effort to educate the families because at the end of day in a family is poor they're making a $1000.00 see a mother always certain this white european male or female comes with $1000.00 to take their child to europe give them a visa give them a better life they turn a blind eye and that is what the issue is and i think it starts with the young people as well because some of them until they're 18 they're 17 they're 16 they know what these people are coming here for but again it's the poverty at the same time though the hotel they can't turn a blind eye the policeman can't find them and we've got to make sure that everything is in place so when these pedophiles all these dirty harry's that's what we call them dirty harry's back in the day these dirty harry said. satirise when they come to the gambia they know there is a no nonsense policy ok i want to speak to a gentleman from the tourism committee whose name is to lehman challenge is it

a question of marketing or is it just that people have become complacent that this is how things work here and this is how they will continue to work days from thing that week or responsible tourism and disperse to various tourists that are coming here on the people that they are meeting here so we all have to be responsible to make sure that you know we ours for tourism sector is responsible and of you know. come here just to have you know form 6 whatsoever but we also have the responsible tourists who are coming here to develop our local communities i think be something that is a holistic approach that we need to promote you know responsible presume through the board on the ministry ok what displeases already in place i'll come back and ask about implementation but i want to go back to something that you set fire to which is that this is a cause and effect of 6 years in the cause being unemployment can you talk to me

about that was a situation like for young people here was it's very very. discouraging because like we were talking about a time we have about 41.5 percent of young people who are unemployed in this country so you will realize that there is a high tendency of young people getting themselves involved in certain acts that can just give them income and when you when you come to become a gambler you realize it's a low income country it's a developing country it takes a bad leader people sensitizing south officials also taking it upon themselves to make this families understand why is it so important to be patient if they can't go you know or out and make something for themselves it does not guarantee for going on to something that would not last within a day the story they go and we stay here what do they live with us nothing so it comes back to all of us as a people but also i believe the government will be watching. you know that young people are tired and even though we're talking that opportunities are there but we still have 41.5 percent who are still unemployed ok let me speak to mr shane will

come back to you can't it's mission is a part of the can you think when a simple console this is of the region where we're at and he's one of the representatives so what do you doing to make sure that young people in this area are not falling prey to people who are trying to exploit them and you offering opportunities for them training perhaps. recently we have conduct. towards him for going to prison for a betrayal where we have given recommendations for improvement of the tourism sector but what about for the young people trying to come you know the thing is that you have to understand the importance of tourism and the role it plays in this country towards him contributes a lot to the gross domestic product of this country and it creates a lot of employment in this country and. practices that we are hearing now that it's possible we have to accept the reality it's about time for young

people to use their creative change and most of the people. in the street these are not gambians. these are not. a small number of engage in this thing and normally when you ask them do would basically own property you know but the thing is that you have to use the meeting one like me i've been walking into tourism industry for quite a long time and i know to industrial importance of the industry and the group things that it brings about yes i know you're insisting that it's beneficial to the country and i think it's also important for us to see tourism actually is the 2nd highest foreign income earner in this country so what you're seeing cannot be overstated but kill it with hearing that these 6 resume of those who are engaging in it and not gonna be true or not true 1st of all i'll just like to put a put a pin point on something before i forget which is really an insult towards the efforts in sex tourism and that came from the highest authorities within the state

and that was when recently norwegian paedophile was parting from prison somebody who raped a girl who was less than 10 years old and he was pardoned amongst many other prisoners who were pardoned and seen that come in from approval approved by the justice minister under the watch of the executive to support the other his excellence and himself i think that alone is an insult towards the efforts to fight against sex tourism because it's a norwegian who is just like more than 46 years old who came on holiday and was put into jail and was arrested and locked up for committed sexual offenses towards a minor and that person is apartment while you have example read some of his young people who are arrested over small we'd stay locked up in there then that does not even give hope to the young people who are trying our best as young people to be on a positive channel despite the frustrated society that we live in so ok so let me go back to me john because i think that relates directly to you the tourism

offenses act which was mentioned earlier what does it say about a case like that and what sort of message to send i. i had the same feeling like him when i heard the guy was actually but this is beyond me it's beyond the minutes of. the watch of the door thought it was something for them to address but surely how do you how do you think these young people feel when you were part of the ministry saying it was beyond you so who should be dealing with. what i can say is at our level when it was reported we have used the means that we have on that it was unmarked actually to address the guard and prosecution which was our limit then pardons done by the executive that is that is what i what i what i said it's beyond us. i mean with them that this guy is just let to go if you're. going to know what you would spend most of your life in the prison that you will come to me when you have something to say yeah just think that it's a disgrace that our gambian government that we're part of

a pedophile and like he said anything like that happened overseas gambians would be in jail for life but what i want to do is go back to the unemployment issue yes it's worth 1.5 percent young people that are unemployed the issue is we need to start creating entrepreneurs' if jobs are not available let's teach these young people skills where they can learn a craft or use their businesses to create some type of avenue of well for themselves and their families for generation to come 2nd of all right now the tourism industry has been privatized they're doing these what do you call a way all inclusive situations where the communities are not going to benefit if you tell you can you explain what an all inclusive situation so in an inclusive it's like maybe a 500 tourists from russia will come they'll stay at the sheraton carla beach i'll tell they'll eat there they'll party there the do everything that maybe they might come out for something but that they stay there so where do the craft market minutes when a taxi because one of the little lady benefit you know it's so when you talk about tourism and you want to do this project as opposed to reason how does it help the

people then you can start privatizing the beaches and telling the people they can't even go to the beach their beaches like they do in jamaica so we have a lot to do with gambia. this is a new gambit let's not allow old time thinking and green now do we're supposed to do to make sure the youth of the 1st priority ok i want to do something to do said earlier which is that the people participating in these illegal activities are not gambians and i just want to clarify it's true or not you know they are gambling as a matter of fact it's only maybe between maybe the 1015 years that we've had an influx of sterling in libraries and i just what about the bums the situation we've been having i live in the gambit of friends who got reasons overseas your stats maybe are so we're not doing stats but i'm telling you everybody has been liberians gambians nigerians poverty is poverty it's not about where you come from it's about trying to survive and everybody's trying to survive it doesn't matter what country you come from if you look at the minimum wage like $25.00 a month so what i'm saying and imagine an ordinary family might have minimum of 4

kids. you live over $25.00 a month so you come to a place like. i don't want people in the richest boat is one of the main reasons why people come here but you have to mind when you look at me as an artist when you look at the creative space in the gambia for entertainment this is the only place outside of tourism this is our one of our only places that we have if i want to go to a regular party around this area if i want to go to a club is around this area this is decentralized this is the only place that you have so if you come here once twice 3 times for different types you meet different people who are trying to meet people like you do automatically but maybe. most and i were meant for tourism more places for people to entertain themselves. example as a young person i like coming here i come here i get stopped i get harassed i've got to show my id maybe. i thought i can someone explain well then again you see if you've been talking about this for a while this is a strip on it's very famous with tourists and as we've had locals as well but one

of the interesting things is at the top of the road there's a checkpoint and at the bottom as well why why why is it i think the last time i came here with my friend i was i almost got got mad because i felt like why is this happening but i understand that they're trying to put some regulatory measures just so that because this place is dominated by tourists and so they want to put a lot of protection on it but also because of that some of the gambian also are also deprived deprived from accessing their place if you look at especially when it's tourism season so what i just want to say and wrap of my own part is that we have a lot of potential like the one time we had this discussion about promoting arts and culture in the country i think the government has to be able to invest a lot in young people's potential just so that we can be able to prevent all these viruses that comes with the unemployment this is the main reason why grown up grown enough to be walking in certain places you find them in some economy and also goes to other young people as well so if we start investing in young people in believing

. i'm sure we have a lot more that we can that have been victims of sex tourism well that's far too little leaves and just much she actually has to rush to the airport so if you don't see her again that's why number where you understand the to work at the craft market which is just behind here i can you tell me how tourism has changed your life a look. a lot positive in the. east. and in the country like the coffee market here. but what happens in the low season like now low season being when it's summertime in the north and hemisphere what happens to your businesses and does the government coming to cushion you. your end of season. because we're going to use that as a business and you guys know all the other you can also want to come back to you because we're talking about the benefits no one can see how this whole strip is lined with restaurants bars but who owns them actually let me start with you you're

a waitress you've been working in the industry for about 3 years have the owners been gambian or have they been foreign most of them. and because i don't do many gambians want to invest in their country but due to lack of finance you have to do it so most of the people on this business are foreigners ok yeah so again being strictly benefiting is the real owners of foreigners is the gentrification happening here well to be honest some partially but then remember we used to live in a dictatorship and a lot of investors who could have really invested i know a lot of wealthy gamblers who could actually buy this whole place up you know but a lot of people fear to invest because of the investment environment here in the gambia you could come and create something major and the president would just take it from you know same i think that also led to one of the main reasons why you know . like a lot of gamblers don't on the other side though as far as gambians participating within the tourism we have to understand regardless of the benefits. and you look

at it from the top of the food chain to the bottom of the food chain who benefits the most it's. the hotels that benefit the most you know and the top operators they charge at the high rates they come here and with the all inclusive packages the benefits is that the gambian which are her tips that she would get you know from one not inclusive package she would get a form inclusive package and then to even the work conditions of these by these foreigners cause i went to a lot of shops where i've seen gambians who work as the waitresses and waiters but they have low salaries you know have poor conditions they get treated like nothing they can protest working conditions let's ask the people who are actually in fact are you saying sure every time this is can you give me an example through things. right we can ask beatrice and i the same patterns will be inside it you can see that when you are in the kitchen there will be a place it's should be at least have a ventilation but they are just like you not even have it the place will be hearts

will be doing. with this one more money and it's always left just to give you an idea of the gambia is truly hot and humid you can see how much i'm sweating so to work in the kitchen without ventilation must be truly difficult this is also sound familiar to you this is because it's true because i went. during the season we have a whole lot of. money and years of the only other increase. every 2 which you know at least it will help because we're the way to. that i want to say to my years of the owners of the increase or decrease because they had ourselves here which you know. at least in the. building was not in doing ok so let me go to mr butcher here because we're hearing that yes the industry is hiring a lot of gambians but the conditions are not great the money is not enough is there any regulation from the ministry of tourism forum that we had before i stood up on

saturday minister with the minimum wage for 4 for people working in industry is something that we found here in the law. since the seventy's if you're asking people to pay $1500.00 to a waiter they will go for it what is that in $1.15. something like that i'm not very good at math so if you actually are tell people to pay 1500 out of basic salary then you are encouraging them to mistreat unemployed people who are not skilled and this is the problem with our service industry so i said to the minister and i proposed i jokingly said well if i actually was the minister for tourism and everybody laughed this is what i'm going to do i'm going to put a minimum wage for tourism employees i went up for $7000.00. that would have. done so that would actually. yes we're being accused of complaining yeah so yeah yeah yeah i mean if that would keep me from my apologies or maybe hears about it ok i was there i was in that form and i can attest to that but like really

disappointed with my rap. you know you just what i would start to tell my broader europe or here is that you know don't we for people to create a notice and i got to you have it take you out don't you don't. know what i'm saying is that you can be doing gigs across the country i once told one artist playing loud. and he's my contemporaries that's how you can. go to school. with the schools what you are seeing the negative things that you are seeing here try to. do your communities you have the. most of the guns are lame ducks ok so. far you need to allow me to do my job so let me let me allow you to respond and then i'm going to come back to you. saying i want to go back to the discrimination and the profiling which happens to a lot of young gambian ghetto youth that's something that i've experienced i'm not

it's not allegations but you know the automatic response would be that was a different generation this is a new the son you want in this new generation within like like a couple of months ago the same thing happened you see like you are judged based on your parents whether you are somebody who's worth of being in this place you feel what i'm saying while a person like me might come like 20 stacks in my pocket but you know i might get judged and discriminated for being a typical guy who are the majority here who follow the white people where my interest is probably to go to a spot to come with a car all the time not once not twice not 3 times and then you see people who are like foreigners and it just passed smoothly nothing happens and i feel like that's insult to me like you're saying that foreigners and teresa treated better than gay . no argument about that do we agree at the back then. so i'm still coming back to me as my response to be that as an artist i use my voice in response to what i meant was same to address those situations because

those are all part of and forms of social injustice yeah but you know we heard from most of you saying that you also have a responsibility as a citizen i want to look at it and he said the most damning is a lame dogs i disagree with that it is most gambian private citizens they have done what we've done to gambia they have gambia where it is because the government has not been doing. the hotel the brand new all tells a young danby of the majlis palace the heartier johnny who was building the hotel bill in the club me myself i have nothing thousands of thousands of dollars he bring international arms are brought things about which in spite of broad jr kelly i just did miss lamb can be a glam pageant just the other we're constantly using our own personal plus to develop projects and programs for young people in this country who trains i have a foundation where i do youth leadership in performing arts trying for young people 12 to 18 so don't tell us not young gamester why don't we take our money turn the gammas over things in their minds here monthly if it wasn't for them gambian people

will be thinking so the government will have a lot of work to do because you're not doing what you. want to bring this to a close and look for solutions because i think it's important looking forward so we're seeing there is a problem with the tourism industry and we've addressed some of those concerns but we're also seeing that these benefits clear benefits so moving forward how do we create a balance so that the gambia is not swallowed by the negative effects of tourism and i'd like to hear from you mr slim. could be drawn through. because we're responsible to listen and try to become positive of. people who are working in the industry and also government enforced. you know. i have to cut you short because they're running out so i want to hear from you very quickly well i think the government 1st of all should make sure that all of the money that is generated from our own goes back to the people so that the people

will be poor enough to always come back here and be exploited one and also for the government to work or not all year round i believe that there's more opportunities and there's more ways to fix that we are facing. population and a movement of young people were well informed i think we can do anything not just wasn't well so the gambia is where we are a country me after a river and one that has had a very checkered history but clearly based on what we've had here these long weeks ago and young people have the solutions thank you for watching. the but.

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18th on d w. this is news live from pro-democracy protests in hong kong mobbed by violence again clashes break out at the mall when probe aging activists face off with the protestors it's the latest confrontation in months with goodman filing demonstrates also coming up african leaders joined.