i'm a backer of his welcome to the program we opened the show with breaking news from here in germany to paypal have been killed in a shooting in the eastern city of hama police say they have already detained one suspect they suggested there could be multiple suspects at least one attacker opened fire with an automatic weapon before fleeing the saying in a vehicle germany's a build newspaper reports the incident took place in front of

a synagogue. today is your home could call the most significant religious day in the jewish calendar while far things have confirmed they have closed halas main railway station until further notice. and local police have been briefing the press on the latest developments here's what they've been saying. minister told although we have at least 2 crime scenes one here on this street where one person was shot dead and one near struck. beyond informative. we were told one perpetrator was on the run and this person was armed and vital in god's will he also got information there were possibly several perpetrators involved but we can't confirm that at this time in item 2 dollars but there was at least one perpetrator this person fled in a vehicle we followed that lead and this vehicle was stopped outside her house and the alleged perpetrator was taken into custody that it is faulty. to put it i mean

totally confessed you know. i'm joined now by thomas sparrow political correspondent thomas very early days still unfolding and not many details are 9 but tell us bring us up to speed with what we do 9 so i'll tell you 1st what has been confirmed by police in the city of dallas 2 people have died there were multiple shots. possible shooters girl on the run one person has already been detained there is another incident close by in a city called landsberg that was confirmed by a police spokesman to german press agency d.p.a. so that is sort of the 1st piece of information that we were able to confirm from the police they had been a lot of reactions coming out there was for example just a few minutes ago reaction from a german federal government from under macos folks from stephens. calling the incident terrible news saying that he hopes police can arrest those involved

especially as possible and hoping the no one else will be put in danger and also telling people to follow instructions from police in the city of. an additional piece of breaking news that just come in is that the federal prosecutors are taking over this case these are described as the search and. tara prosecutor so they take only cases when they have a very big in in germany and that is information that is just coming out right now that they have decided to take the case these are federal prosecutors in the city of cards were so this also shows the seriousness of the issue that we're discussing now although it is also important to stress rebecca that there are a lot of issues a lot of points that have still not been confirmed of course a lot of unknowns and that's really important to stress what we do have i believe is an interview with a witness somebody who was in the combat shop at the say at the time that of the shooting let's take a listen to what he had to come up on monday. i saw

a man in the home of he was right outside the combat shop behind an old lady he was wearing an army uniform everything looked very militaristic he had a weapon in his hand in a mosque on. and it looked like he had a hand grenade of something else like maybe a firecracker and he wanted to throw it into the shop. but it hit the door and exploded in front of the old woman with the huge bang then he came into the shop and opened fire. and everyone ran away shouting and screaming towards the staircase which was heading out the back of the shop. and i saw the entrance to the toilets where i hear. everyone else tried to find a way out or even a window. just it wasn't on the. there was another loud explosion and a lot of shouting opposition that picked. one by 20 and then suddenly grew silent.

before i rang the police they said i should stay in the toilet because i wanted to take said my family and my parents. eventually i heard the police arrive they wanted to know if someone was there they secured the area i yelled out that i was there i held up my arms and they briefly search me and. i was the midst of awkward. as i can't say a lot about the attackers nationality because he was wearing a mosque but there were some gaps in it and i'm guessing it was a white guy based on that. the sun visor but i'm really not so sure because i was in a state of shock at the time. but i can say that he was very determined to get into this particular shop. everything happened so quickly in the 1st few seconds after he opened fire and everyone ran away right after that. i don't remember how long i was hiding in the

toilet it probably wasn't longer than 10 minutes. but it felt a lot longer. i says to that he said it was so terrifying eyewitness experience. now is that someone was saying it seemed to him at least that the shooter was trying to get into that particular shop is that you know i know we don't want to speculate about motivation or anything like that but does that firm up anything that we already do you know there were different reports as to where this might have happened and one strand of those reports did mention that it was near a kebab shop. another strand had mentioned that it happened close to a synagogue and in fact there are reports quoting police spokespeople saying that it had happened close to a synagogue although that spokes person had then added that it was still unclear what the relation was between the shooting and the synagogue and that is still

something that authorities are investigating so it is important to mention that there are these 2 different views as to where it might have happened. possible though that it was a 2 separate places because they've mentioned multiple you know possible multiple attacks something out of thought these are now trying to investigate and trying to put together as i said earlier there was also this other case in the nearby city of landsberg and we're getting information for example or now from authorities in one's book that the attacker or attackers grew up in holly had tried to hijack a car that's still again unconfirmed information but it's information that's just coming in through the agencies so what police are trying to do now is try and put the pieces together how for example the incidence in perth might or might not be related to the one in in hollywood for example one key piece of information that approaches will try to to investigate they will do this by on the one hand the reaction by the police in particular the police will be for example trying to speak

to eyewitnesses or something that they've clearly stated for example in social media and then you have the political reaction as well on the other hand from the so local political authorities in the city of holly who have called up a specific committee to deal with emergencies or something else that has been already said and they have all said that everyone basically high level of dorothy's political and police authorities are all are on high alert trying to identify who was behind this and what the possible motive might have been. now you mentioned before and i stayed here at the federal terror prosecutors and now assigned to take this investigation what does that tell you about what's going on here when you have incidences like this or other security incidents is it normally goes 1st to the regional authorities the regional authorities then start analyzing the case and when they understand that the case has to be moved one step further for example because they may be information that it could be related to terrorism then federal

authorities take the leading role and start investigating themselves. and this is something that according to the information that we have now has happened the federal prosecutors in college who have announced that they're taking over the investigation these are federal prosecutors as you said at this tribe as are de terre prosecutors because they deal with cases where they are investigating possible links to terrorism but it is still very early to say what the possible motive might have been and if you possibly ask all these authorities both at the regional level and at the federal level they would clearly say that it's too early to speculate on what could have been the motives but the fact that they are investigating a bit further does indicate that they're looking into very different avenues and one of those avenues that they might be looking into is a possibility of it being related to terrorism yes of possible that would tear obviously doesn't only relate to islamic terrorism or any kind of other sort of

racially related terrorism it may you know but somebody shooting indiscriminately with an automatic weapon terrorism is a very charged absolutely and that's something that we've seen many many times in the past there are different definitions of what it could be but it would have to be something that is a deliberate it would have to be something that has political motivations for example and it would have to involve a riot of people so multiple people injured or dead for example and also for example in many cases the network behind the want the person or the people involved if you are security experts those tend to be so of the 2 or 3 main sort of general features when you talk about terrorism again it is a very charged term there are many different definitions of what could be or what could not be terrorism but it has to be deliberate and it has to have some political impact or at least political motivations and those are the instances and those are the elements that authorities will now try to answer so was it deliberate

was were there any political motivations behind that and who was behind this where there was a network where there was a group of people where there were. just one person whether the instance in holly on the ins in nuns burger in any way related once they put those pieces together will they be able to say what the motive was and whether they can talk of a possible terror motive or not. one person has been arrested we don't know yet whether that was something and active shooter for example or whether that was somebody perhaps involved in a wider ring you have a more informational no i don't have more information on the that and it's not unusual for us not to have more information on that again as i said police are still trying to put all the pieces together and what they have said is that they're as i said 2 people dead they spoke of possible shooters in plural who are on the run and then later on they said that they had been able to detain one person and they haven't given more information as far as we know as to what relationship there is or there probably isn't i really don't know that yet between the person detained

and the previous piece of information that they had released namely that they had been possible shooters on the run and this happens at a slightly hot more heightened time in germany yesterday there was another incident in the town of limbo can you tell us a little bit about the mood in germany at the moment i would clearly try and avoid making any relations between the 2 cases that we're talking about the fact that yesterday in the town of limbo. a man took a truck and crashed a truck into a series of vehicles leaving various people injured and the case that we're talking today i would nevertheless state that this will probably increase a mood of uncertainty and confusion among many people in germany and in particular obviously among the people affected in these 2 places if you ask for example people in holland if you saw some of the reports yesterday in limbo could clearly see that people were confused that people were in shock that people didn't know how to react

and that's why we've heard for example from the police in holland asking people to stay indoors to remain safe that's what we heard also for example from mandela merkel's. hoax months but clearly telling people in his very 1st message reacting to this to follow instructions from the police we've heard from a spokesperson we haven't heard anything from angela merkel herself so if you've been following this terror terrorism and other security related incidents of some time how does this compare to the response the police response compared to some of the responses in previous incidents elise under the authorities in general try and follow certain patterns when it comes to to this one pattern as they try and be very careful they understand that they have to be very careful with the information so as to avoid any sense of why the confusion among the population is so as to avoid any speculation that can go beyond what is publicly known at the time so that is one part and then you can clearly say. we see now and we've also seen other

parts as well and then it obviously has to do with what they do on the ground so how they secure a cordon off the area where they talk to witnesses or to people who might have been involved and how they start to put all this together something else that happens that we also saw in previous cases they will try and find some information once they have for example someone detained trying to have the phone for example or any other material that can help them to got additional info there additional information that could then put together a bigger picture that can help people understand not only who was behind this but why such an incident an incident happened in b.c. also in the neighboring town of that tell us parallel political correspondent thanks so much for breaking this down for us and i'm sure we'll be speaking to you throughout the day. police in holland now say they've arrested one person in connection with the shooting incident in the city reports indicate the attack took place in front of a synagogue here is

a closer look at where the incident is reported to have occurred in humboldt in halas powerless district today today is a young comport the most important holiday in the jewish calendar police have told residents in holland to stay in their homes the general while far as he's of do it to bomb and confirm that they have closed the nearby train station until further notice. brady joins us from leipzig which is very near the city of hala where the shooting took place kate what do we know about the suspect so far. well we know about the suspect so far backers at least one of the well one of the suspects is definitely not being arrested by all sources in hala but there are also reports of more suspects plural is worth pointing out there are still on the run and they are thought to have fled the scene of the crime the scene of the shooting in how they are in

a car is currently unknown exactly where they are but there has also been some images appeared c.c.t.v. images appeared now of one of the shooters in the area of life where that shooting took place and he was sitting at least to be wearing protective clothing and also a rather large helmets and so that's basically all we know so far the police are now carrying out a huge operation in the surrounding area as we heard from thomas a 2nd incident in lance back close to her has also taken place we don't know yet whether those 2 incidents are linked and police also working on to work out the motivation behind both of those attacks as well and to establish whether there are indeed any links between those incidents both in holland and in lam's back actually in light sic at the moment which is about 30 that will call on mrs away from how they're so you know so you know so much a greater distance and

a lot of the trains going to follow actually be redirected here to light sake in the last couple of hours as you mentioned bon jovi's rail service they shut down services to hala central train station and many of them are now being redirected to here in the city of lights just south of hollow where that shooting took place and yet as you mentioned you've spoken to police there and lots there what have they been saying how have they been and the police there been able to say anything to you. well at the moment it seems that here in life secretly the police are carrying out their normal operations as according to their usual plan of course today was already a bit of an exception for the police here also in light saying today there was some huge commemorations taking place to mark 30 years since the monday demonstrations a pivotal demonstrations in the peaceful revolution in 1989 which led the

way towards the fall of the berlin wall a month later in 1909 and you can see behind me they are already making preparations for this evening's event where thousands of people thousands of local lights because people from the city of lights are expected to descend on the spots here this is square in the center of downtown life sick so of course people will be aware of the shooting not so far away in hala but so far it seems at least the security operation in light sic is continuing as usual there are police still out and about ahead of these commemorations this evening and also earlier in the day the german president francophile to shine my he was also here giving a speech at a ceremony in the house just close to be here and so the security was indeed already increased higher than usual here in the light saying but at the

moment at least from what police are telling me it's business as usual and they're continuing their normal plan and normal operation and at the moment they like those awaiting for more information from local authorities in hala to find out exactly what their next step should be to kate brady standing by for us in line which is now hala the location of today's shooting thanks very much for the update. we're following breaking news for you out of hala a city and east in germany. at least 2 people have been killed in a shooting and police have detained one person a local newspaper the middle door to title is reporting a man opened fire from the doorway of a synagogue in the north of the city he then fled on the local broadcast to india says there was a shooting in a nearby street it's still unclear if what has happened is a mass shooting or a terror attack and what the weapon was used what weapon was used sorry an

eyewitness inside a shop is reporting a separate shooting he says a man tried to throw some kind of explosive into the shop and charged in and opened fire more shots rang out in the land that a town outside of the reuters news agency is quoting the mayor she says that 2 people suspected of shooting have hijacked a car and are now under way on a motorway in the direction of munich despite the arrest of a suspect people in holland being encouraged to stay alert and stay at home and if they are at home they should seek shelter as soon as possible police say they've deployed a large number of offices. the city's transportation has also been closed its security services in the eastern state have sex and on how to have reportedly been put on high alert and there's an emergency hotline people can ring 115 if they want information the whole incident happened on yom kippur paul also known as the day of jewish atonement the holiest day in the jewish calendar the site where the shooting

reportedly took place is a historic city for the city's jewish community it was damaged but not destroyed during the night of broken glass in 1938 but we're joined now by pierre he's a security and counterterrorism expert at the modern security consulting group here in berlin young welcome to the show why it's been reported that it was a semi automatic weapon used in the incident how easy are they to get your hands on here in germany it's very difficult to get one german in europe as a whole i would say that means usually either have contacts within police or already have a license that means it's illegal purchased which is very difficult and the other has there's a very strong black market are for such weapons whether they're be linked to eastern europe or other areas. it's difficult to obtain but it's not impossible it's definitely not comparable to the united states was certainly not over the counter right so you need 6 kind of be prepared and know what you do and yes

definitely something also you really need training a proper trained for you can't just go out by use it which is often an indication that. the attackers may have a security background some point whether it be military or police we've seen that in france for example that some of the attackers did have a former security background at some point they did receive proper training on how to use such weapons because it's definitely not easy. i don't actually know whether you can speak to this but you know how many weapons there are such such that weapons are out there in the community now it's really difficult. again you have official numbers and then you have the real numbers which are linked to the black market you can buy some online we've seen that with the munich case a few years back it's something it's always estimates and there are very often off the mark is there a sense understood as we've been saying this site is most likely the site of

a synagogue in a hollow one of the sites at least the houses of worship synagogues mosques and the like churches they seem to be at risk and what can we do in a security sense to secure these places and show them up well there in germany it's quite interesting because i mean i've been living here for years now and there's new places of worship leading to to the jewish faith are actually well protected there's always a small police of a police officer in front and it's always that you are going and exactly this is so from that perspective it's it's well developed but it's also it's also about awareness now so if people are aware around these areas of the comings and goings that we're all creatures of habit and we know pretty much what's going on in our vicinity and it's becoming about having that awareness developed enough to see while some to be being monitored for example being spied on there's something odd going on and start being able to report such and since because as you mentioned

a synagogues mosques churches are being more and more targeted by this because it's a small gathering of people it's an easy target unfortunately and so it's from a security standpoint it's very difficult but it's not impossible to use and secure and what about intelligence what role does that play in the face of increasing attacks like this fatal shooting today and well in most of the recent cases we've noticed that there's always a very strong online activity within that whether it was in toronto in christchurch in other areas so from an intelligence standpoint if the electronics of the surveillance is there there's a certain degree of. of capability that you can act probably in time if you. say if you evaluate the information in time however in germany that is a big problem and we're never sure right now we know there might be a few people involved so that helps a bit but when it's real lone attackers like other instances where the support is

more digital than otherwise that becomes near impossible. a video has actually of one of the alleged attacker who is shooting we have video i'd like to play it for you and see from a security standpoint what you make of it. so here we see the man shooting i have to set it up much about weapons i'll let you take over hey what can you tell us about this video was clearly comfortable with the use of the weapon his stance however isn't as stable as we would expect however the positioning is that it's not as positioning of his feet for example would we seem to video it's very standard but it's not as comfortable as one would expect with a long time experience. exactly but it's definitely somebody has a. habit of using these weapons even if it's recent. and also the columnist this is somebody who right now i would say is not afraid of being.

interfered with in his actions to be able to take the time to recharge reload that type of weapon my layman's perspective he looks quite yet as you said calm and is definitely right now he does is not feeling any pressure he is not hectic in his move i mean right now that that change of from that perspective it doesn't look like he has problems putting new cartridges in the weapon so we're definitely dealing with somebody to has a certain degree of experience with these types of weapons and that was definitely well prepared well for this attack to be able to to act with such i would say ease . well perpetrating the attack because there's a there's a huge adrenaline rush this is not something that comes oh i feel comfortable there's an intensity to it and he's very much in control at least from these images now i have a lot of us back to one of the witnesses who said he saw he was in the shop when the 2nd one of the the other shooting took place and i'd like to play that into you

know that. you come up on monday and i saw a man in the helmet he was right outside the combat shop behind an old lady he was wearing an army uniform everything looked very militaristic he had a weapon in his hand in a mosque on. and it looked like he had a hand grenade of something else like maybe a firecracker and he wanted to throw it into the shop. but it hit the door and exploded in front of the old woman with the huge bang then he came into the shop and opened fire. and everyone ran away shouting and screaming towards the staircase which was heading out the back of the shop. and i saw the entrance to the toilets where i here and everyone else tried to find a way out or even a window. to present on that and. there was another loud explosion and a lot of shouting opposition that picked. up one by 20 and then suddenly grew

silent. before i rang the police and they said i should stay in the toilet because i just wanted to i texted my family and my parents. eventually i heard the police arrive they wanted to know if someone was there they secured the area i yelled out that i was there i held up my arms and they briefly search me and. it's a concept a lot about the attackers nationality because he was wearing a mosque but there were some gaps in it and i'm guessing it was a white guy based on that. the sun visor of but i'm really not so sure because i was in a state of shock at the time. but i can say that he was very determined to get into this particular. gave everything happened so quickly in the 1st few seconds after he opened fire and

everyone ran away right after that it seems as if i don't remember how long i was hiding in the toilet it probably wasn't longer than 10 minutes. but it felt a lot longer. i says to that he said. so terrifying account that just before you before you leave i'd like to ask you about witness accounts and how effective are they in police tracking down to try to as they're usually dismissed as we see in the video he's clearly traumatized it's all about impressions the sounds are different you know you get this rush again everything that the senses are so different that the perception that we have weatherby sound what we see is altered and so they can provide the certain degree of they can provide hints as to what to look for but a proper account isn't reliable because it's simply flawed through a demotion allin fact of

a situation like this one where young from the moment security consulting group here in berlin thanks very much for your expertise and. oh we'll bring you the latest information on the aftermath of that shooting and the investigations as we get it but some breaking news coming in turkish turkey's president wretch of tayyip erdogan has announced the start of turkish military action in northern syria tweeted that the turkish army had begun what he called operation paced spring against kurdish militants for more on this i'm joined by our turkey correspondent you leon in istanbul yulia can you hear me yeah i can hear you you know what do we know. well the oprah ration has officially started that was just announced a few minutes ago by president and on the turkish president himself he tweeted.