darkness has its gentle peaceful. nation for your sakes my grandchildren after. the birth. family. starts november 6th do you w. . looking for the spray he's cleaning up your mess isn't a no no how do you sleep at night how basket an apology for my people living in medieval times these are all ethiopia has come a long way in a short time there's a new peace deal with eritrea and a new prime minister apparently determined to bring accountability for the human rights abuses of the past my guest this week here in brussels this is previous highly mariam decile and who denied for many years that human rights violations have taken place and whose government locked up many thousands of political

prisoners i see no shame for the torture of it was perpetrated and the lives that were ruined during his time in office. haile mariam welcome to conduct so thank you so much thank you for having me ethiopia has a new prime minister now of the who took over after you resigned last year he's now received a nobel peace prize basically for doing many of the evils of your government and doing what you couldn't do within a 100 days. don't you feel something of a failure when you look at what he's done. i know that because. i have done my share to bring this change to happen. premise that abby

has not come from blue moon it has come from the past in which i was that he's 18 you have but he's bigger than correcting the massive human rights abuses which were a prominent feature of your title no trace that is it is my party which started the reform process and we say. the process should be no one to the country basically but also to the party itself so i think that is a process which yielded prime minister rabin. prime minister so he continued with the process pro reform my gender that my party and his party whether that's a global committee cited his achievements as lifting the country's state of emergency granting amnesty to thousands of political prisoners for years you always denied there were in the scrapping media censorship legalizing outlawed opposition groups dismissing military and civilian leaders suspected of corruption all the

things that you failed to do when you were in office by the way do you know that 9095 percent of the prisoners released due to my office. before i left office and before i signed so i think what i did was they remain in 5 percent which has to be released so the decision was the decision of the party. and i took that action before i resigned how many did you release almost 4000000 something how many more than 3000 or so you know where there were many more than 3000 in jail yeah but it's only young people who've recently been arrested have been released but the main political figures which has been adverse to been released. do it in my terms before i resign in may this year the attorney general. filed criminal charges against your former intelligence chief to ask alleging human rights abuses and

corruption he's gone missing that you know where he will have it i don't know i'm not in office no more information 20 other people were charged with him he had served until june 28th seen. he had served you as prime minister who were denying that any human rights abuses were being committed i think you're you're lucky information lou you're lucky riddance it is my government and my party who admitted that there has been a human rights abuse if you start here off to hear an interview say nobody's being mistreated we have no political prisoners one off to the other you gave interviews sitting smiling across the dreams of us say no everything's fine here you know you always forget you have to understand the way how our part to operate was the one to step in the way you operate within islam if you like yourself let me finish 1st if that's the case then you know that we have been historically we have to understand

that in the 1st place this is a party fighting left and you know us. when there is a communist mentality and when it's a marxist mentality there is a centralism. you do in the toward your party decides on issues even though you have differences in as a minority you take with you so you just hold the line whatever it is because you're too cowardly to say anything about what's really going all i see is that it's no excuse that sort of misplacing the whole thing is. we believe that in our party and the government that we need to reform our system we need to bring up. changes that we need to democratize our country because that's a country with number of interest this and there is an introduction of ethnic

mobilized politics which is very dangerous and therefore we have we have decided that we need to go out and deeply into forming our country which has it for something actually been busy in washington you didn't get it i would need a force to well if you had done that the prime minister when he came in by me as the abbey wouldn't have had to condemn police brutality pledged to return rein in the security services tackle what he called economic mismanagement corruption and rights abuses all of this spending phase you want to spin off this is also misplaced see because produce that abby has not come from a blue moon he has got another way where he came from there with us he's cleaning up the mess isn't a no no it's not he's not cleaning up his messes he's killing your mess up the mess you left dark night i think this is also misplacing and i always say that you know correctly this is our party's admission of our collective mistake and then we

put in place properly the start of the things that you failed to do by november last year dozens of intelligence officers and high level officials have been arrested including people from the military run metals and engineering corp met tech on charges of corruption and human rights is this is your level put those charges to that speed that is the study which i introduced new york to be finished i mean it. november last year you weren't in office i did it you don't have been a business i did it i lunched in the studies and then completion of that the studies that actually has been the attorney general said 63 people have been arrested that months november last year 27 for corruption $36.00 on charges of human rights violations that included the former head of mattick conflict bagnio a brigadier general over whom you did nothing you did nothing about that study you

lucky with this i love the study in the group of people who study the study it's charging people with human words in order to charge of the usually. challenged people after used bed after concretely they are still going investigation and unity that investigation has been launched by may 3rd local media said huge sums of money were missing from this company a matter of whether the girl let the let the court decide on it as prime minister he was supposed to look after the public places the military was supposed to follow your orders. and you for seem to fail spectacularly to make them do that for him to feel any remorse at the crimes you allowed to take place when you were prime minister no i think i have resigned because i was not able to you know change dramatically whatever has to come be going to week. i say defection actually i have my own history in this and i have my own weaknesses and you have to not to look

into only the weaknesses but you have to also see the strength of this country has gone and you know you know that my country has been visited during my tenure by 6 of the 77 leaders and they all are numsa that this country has been working very hard at double digit grows and they cannot make. achievements where we have it's dictated our people out of poverty the only country which has actually and. 7 out of this 8 images and now where the by the united nations by my time so i think you have to see all those positive things we have achieved last day of the last of them of mr the attorney general. said investigated her uncovered serious abuses by security services at secret prisons in the capital and elsewhere do you know ringback what your security officers were doing in the single

prisons i don't know those big smites machine or did you ever ask a visit how can i do or if your intelligence doesn't give me information how can you know there were plenty of foreign reports that torture was going on which you do know it and you're good enough you're telling me you didn't know what was going on or i didn't say you said nihilism force your denials we're just pro forma denials no are not going to know everything when you were in office no not at all you did you said they don't know everything you didn't you didn't know what was going on in these prisons you didn't ask you weren't interested. they know in his or her surely we know some of the appeal of abuse this and i have taken in my time some of the actions. of those things but i didn't know that there are informal prisons which has been their concern ages ago said there are people who have been blinded and held in darkness for long periods of time others have been left infertile because of blows to their genitals there are some that have limbs broken

women have been subjected to go rape and men have been sort of modest all this happened until your rule so i ask you what you were shame that this was going on until you were ruled no i mean would it be assured that when this happened but i didn't know those things and if i knew those things i would architected them because this is a very sacred things happened well it didn't take long for this prime minister to find out what was going on so obviously nice looking in like place and you do not believe he didn't want to look to kill you in mid whom for displaying to our. tribe in the very hard to bring him to power and i did every you lost your job that's why you gave up you lost control of the party lost faith in you that's why you gave up what i think you can you can say that going to be struggling to control the rest of the country because it was very a case of that is going out in it myself i did it intentionally because i wanted to

see that this change should come so i think this is genuinely what has happened and i did my best in paving the way for this to happen so i think that has to be clearly carded and i did think a big clearly wriggle of it when wimmin in your prisons during your term in office were being subjected to gang rape and men to some of the money is a shit now that you know this even if you say you didn't know it at the time. europe. the gene to the victims i didn't have all of your political mail when they said when they resigned because that's the system which was open to me i meant to give you meant to the victims and apologize personally to them if there is a need to be a when you haven't done so have you i have i have been to get those plants and i will we have been conciliation and through so many conservation commission established and process is well known how do you sleep at night knowing that this

was going on in your torture centers carried out by your officials when you were prime minister how do you sleep at night if i knew then i say to you that i was there to correct everything in my disposal if i knew it but i didn't know that your meal your said to be a religious man from a family of pentecostalists is that right that's wrong. how does gang rape and sodomy is a sin fit in with your religious values no i didn't know i say if a new it doesn't fit in in my brain goes but you went on denying it denying it denouncing those going to every interview that that's the report they have not received despite the reports coming early from the human rights groups all over the world which you just rubbished you said that's not true they're outside as there

are enemies don't listen to them everything is fine you said i think i have never said everything is fine you said there was no mistreated us i said there was 'd no mistreatment going on there is a problem but i was saying that my report is that it's not to the extent where has been said that's what i'm saying by then any case i report which i wish i was giving to the public which which was the case let's take another to tension center gigo central prison otherwise known as jail or get the regional detention center in the east of the country but ministered in public by your special police it was closed in august last year you know what was going on there as well no i don't know why not you knew the prison existed and you know you were right you have no good reason to you have no curiosity mr high among you didn't want to know what was going on in your jails no it's not their kids you know that in jail governments

have their own rights and i think the whole thing is i did my my work according to the reports they get from my intelligence and from my sources and therefore that's what what was the kids. people reported there were many of the former prison those who said they saw people dying in their cells after being tortured by officials in this or garden jailers as it was called what should happen to the officials who carried out this torture. i mean what should happen to the. dead in prison and that's it. just prison sentences and what should happen to you for turning a blind eye to it that depends on the legal system of the country you know either his own simply because to take all the responsibilities but what is extraordinary is that with all the abuses that were carried out when you were prime minister you

accepted from the new prime minister the nation's highest award for service without even blushing without any embarrassment whatsoever now that you know what was going on while you were prime minister why didn't you get back out of work. why should i because i have a number of positive things i have because you failed to take control this is one part of it and it's the incident that says you tall is busy you watch me eyes water could in my in my country that doesn't explain that's not the only thing you know i have done many good things there are issues in the system which are definite what i initiated to reform and did conduct reform because i understood that. you know before this admission and this too that there are something going wrong therefore i initiated this reform and then i have released 95 percent of the you are insured office for 6 years and this new prime minister has come in and done

more for human rights than you did in all the time you were there this because they paved the way for him really the u.s. state department in 2016 published a catalogue of the human rights abuses taking place on the your rule which of course you deny it but they're never known to be true arbitrate killings disappearances torture harsher life threatening prison conditions detention without charge you know minute where they really weren't but it's what they said would you say you didn't know what was going on when all these reports were pointing to what was yes and whenever they knew that there are things going wrong i initiated that form and the serious reform and the before and that's the result where the prime minister has come into power. you said when your is all in that you wanted to be part of the solution in ethiopia how can you be part of the solution when you so much part of the problem. you know i didn't i'm part of the solution because in

there is a problem which would result for which you are going to argue created the atmosphere a permissive outlook spirit in which your security officials believe they could torture but it was alright to torture go on torturing disappearing people not judicial exudation all do creating the atmosphere in which that was possible no i didn't create the atmosphere so our crossfire is and then the constitutional system has been established then anyone who is the one where there is could be accounted for but i didn't create this this point this the environment for them it is a deep system which i was not able to look into because of my background and because of my you know i must say that are coming into the deep system so i could see that when mr big came into power he couldn't wait to condemn the legacy of your government and draw a line in the earth time in office could be

a pro last year he said that the government your government had sanctioned torture of its prisoners and said it had been guilty of state terrorism he said it he said in parliament does the constitution say anyone who was sentenced by a court can be tortured put in a guard netscape doesn't that's the rule that the government was in his eyes were not only mine you were the prime minister i was in this order by the way he was there also the buck stopped yeah he could listen to me decided to inform including indian ultimate responsibility highly you know do you do you yet you do this yes it is not you trying to get out of it what you try to get out is waste initiated therefore that's why you should that you know why i'm here thank you for the hearing a show usual for you blocked every attempt by the united nations special rapporteur that should come during our visit if you call from an attack issued can use the word before you should. come up from us and the only message i need locked i only

reason you blocked him are you leashed to gating was because you didn't want them to find out what was going on i did and i initiated the before before my innocent mission a year ago and out to you for the reason that was the result of the payments that are going to come to power conjured so you believe all i could all get him to power hundreds of people were killed under your regime and you refused to have an independent investigation led by the un human rights official if you ask the killings the last one and half years the number of killings side passed in 6 years what happened in my town if you ask for killings look darkest ridiculous so the whole thing is you know i initiated this new form a year ago before my dislike mission and i pay of their way in for the new system you would have this in the bush was mean you say you are surely to reform you created a regime where people were tortured and disappeared and had their rights taken away

from them consistently turns i have our sense of people are the masses not needed our biases are we get our basket an apology to my people that the region has some abuses of you know you my doubts and the deficit and democracy and that has happened i am and i still feel that i am sort of for that but i can dish it out soft touch the compass not much of an apology as it really is as a half hearted apology no it is not a new michael you are not these are you know it would have taken you to the last as many leadership program as ours you may want to spare you lost the faith or not i haven't lost that security forces avon's was the army they already have a rest for their big rest and they should know better that they should have been investigated under your time a worthwhile one to continue as the south us you know i could have used everything up to the. last of my bit if you want your spirit is

a dictatorship yet you always claim that democracy took time you always said this is a fledgling democracy it takes time and decision this is what every dictator says act the way they do so fall to yourself now although yourself in europe you pass through a number of civil wars before you can use to see what a person read to you terry davis says it's not hard the possibility that son harry these days is why are they show or even york united states everywhere in the western countries you democracy has taken time and it has not come up in one short and one day and one week and 1000000 it has taken you to much and that is true and that will continue democracy is building democratic culture here in the us does everything to slow it down mistrial or more and we've never shied away from associations or friendships either with indicted or convicted war criminals do they hold some special fascination for you and these people which runs like

a star by sheer the former president of the bill in august you posted a controversial picture on facebook of you smiling next to ethiopia as exiled marxist leader megastore haile mariam and then you took it down when there was a huge outcry because this man of course was found guilty of center of genocide by the way i met him incidentally when i was there in some by when he was in the president's office when i was there in the president's office when i made him and i talked to him so that's what happened in any case and you posted a comment saying i wish to see more former heads of governments and states in my country contributing their parts in different capacity of the peaceful transition of political power of the that is not me it is the officers there who did it and they say this is wrong. certainly you don't want mr mingus to with his conviction

for genocide to play a part in the new ethiopia i think if we go through a true isn't it a consolidation commission and if he is on some given chance to you know to apologize and then anything what the through senate consolation commission bleeds into it i then that leads the country needs to conciliation i have a deep belief that we need conciliation what the mother says well some of the past even the future is worse of the possible answers that genocide is than something you just you just either see by just feeling our way really how did it it was relation to dr may come through explained to me please how a conviction for one of the most serious crimes on the planet would qualify mr mingus to contribute to the well being of your country howard i would imagine with a qualification like that. i think it depends on how they've been conviction for the side of genocide one of the most serious crimes in us you are entirely this is

south africa as if you can say a part of it isn't genocide with the whole mind that for you it's not just for a few times it is more than genocide where is your truth and reconciliation commission it is that has been established and we see that is that for years apartheid this not my for us it is so you're quite happy for convicted war criminals to come back to your country and play their part good old boy is good old it was a mission procedure allows that yes if not then no how should future generations in africa protect themselves from people like you they should democratize the country's growth dictators like you know. i think living media type that is wrong. is wrong and this is use is not my my people. so i think this is misplacing again this is

a good from yourself. i like. thank you very much for being the culprits and. the be.

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glad. to play. this is news live from berlin nato's di lemma what to do about turkey and russia at nato headquarters defense ministers now faced with one of their own turkey suddenly patrolling northern syria together with the nato and 1st week russia can be alliance in 2 of its major test of its unity. also coming up.